Bobby Manning welcomes Tim Cato from The Athletic to talk about how the Celtics dominated Game 1 and 2 in Boston. Will the Celtics win the championship now? Is a sweep possible? Why is Kyrie Irving struggling so much and how hurt is Luka Doncic? Kristaps Porzingis also picked up a new ailment in Game 2, but says he'll be ready for Game 3.
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00:00Manning here. Welcome to a live edition of the Garn Report and we are live. We're going
00:11to see how this connection holds up here in Dallas. Live from downtown Dallas, both myself
00:17and Tim Cato coming to you from the heart of Dallas here as we get ready for game three
00:21of the NBA Finals coming right off game two. Flew back down today, both of us did, and
00:29I don't know where the series is going now that it flips sides here. It didn't look too
00:32good for Dallas up in Boston. Kyrie had his struggles. Luka playing through injury, had
00:38his ups and downs by 30-point performances in both games. The Celtics pulled out two
00:43really good wins up there. So we're going to talk about it here with Tim Cato from The
00:46Athletic. What's your biggest takeaway from the first two games up in Boston, Tim, as
00:50this Finals gets started? I think it's just that Boston is a very, very, very good team,
00:56a great team. This is a team that is very difficult to play against. I think they've
01:02nullified a lot of what makes Dallas so good. I think that Dallas is a very good team deserving
01:08to be in the Finals. They are one of the best three teams in the league and Boston is just
01:16so difficult to play against. I've watched these first two games and I've seen, if the
01:23there's different ways that two series can, you know, go about. And if I had watched these
01:29games and if I had seen Dallas have stuff that made sense, like they are going to get
01:35more from Kyrie. I'm sure of that. I expect that to happen in games three and four. They're
01:39going to get a little bit more for some of the role players. But Dallas is also searching
01:43for answers. And Boston is here on the other side, getting every shot they want, even if
01:49they don't go down. And that's not a good place to be in. If you're Boston, you know,
01:56if you're Dallas, you know, if this was a different type of two lead, if this was, you
02:02know, something where Boston actually just came out and like blew Dallas away in game
02:07two, but they did it because they made all their three point shots that, you know, if
02:11I'm Dallas, that would actually give me more optimism because that's a game that's going
02:16to happen once the series and then it just happened. But it hasn't been that it's been
02:21much more, you know, even from the eye test, even from what we're seeing, you know, Dallas
02:26lost the three point variance game that went in their favor. And that's not a good place
02:30to be if you're Dallas, you know, right now looking at a two hole.
02:35Yeah, and that's one thing I looked up coming down here. One in three, the Celtics were
02:43shooting below 26% from three. During the regular season, they've been, you know, better.
03:40Below the league average 36% from three percent from three like they did pretty exemplary
03:47of their verse. Wow, it's just me. Where'd Bobby go? This is unbelievable. I'm gonna
04:02have to monologue here. Because I think I think we're live. So he was talking about
04:07three pointers. I'm just going to go for a second. This is this is fun. I've never
04:10had to do a solo pod before. I'm going to tell Bobby that he should try the the Wi Fi
04:17not the hotspot again. Maybe he'll hop back in here. But yeah, Boston shot really badly.
04:25And that's not a good thing. You know, not a good thing if you're Dallas. So, you know,
04:31one thing. Hey, Bobby, welcome back. I'm just kind of monologuing here. I'm doing I'm doing
04:35a solo podcast. It's a lot of fun. You know, I've never had to do it before. All of a sudden,
04:42it's, you know, it's like the I'm the captain now meme, you know, it's a lot of power. What
04:47I was gonna say about Dallas is that Dallas has done a, you know, Dallas has built a scheme
04:52that makes sense for 28 teams in the league. And I still think they're going to figure
04:59it out a little bit more. I think of Derek Lively. Derek Lively is like just an enormous
05:02X factor in the series. He obviously looked overwhelmed in games one and two. As a, you
05:08know, rookie in the finals, he's 20. You know, his life story is even more tragic than that.
05:13I've written a little bit about that. You know, not to not to bring that up in the context
05:17of basketball. That's that's different. But I want to I want to make the point that that
05:21he is a rookie, he's 20. Like this is someone that you can expect, you can understand if
05:26he is not going to perform at his best, but he's the player that Dallas has to get going
05:30like he has to be the player who is switchable and also rim protecting. Boston was 15 of
05:3615 in game one at the rim. There are 20 of 26 in game two. All series all all postseason
05:42really for you know, ever since the trade deadline ever since Dallas really got rolling.
05:47This is something that has been a strength of theirs the the rim protection and because
05:53there is no one on Boston that you can confidently sag off of and Dallas tried a few different
05:58people and I thought Boston was really smart, you know, just putting their guards at the
06:03you know at the dunker spot and kind of generating points that way as well as well because Dallas
06:08had to spread out so much. You know, like that that rim protection isn't there but Dallas
06:13also isn't limiting them through point shots. And so, you know, maybe lively just comes
06:19back home and figures it out. The there's a good chance the role player shoot a little
06:22bit better there. I still expect Harry to be better, but I also expect Boston be better
06:28and that's the scary thing that for all the improvements that Dallas can make on their
06:32own end. There might be similar ones, you know, against the opponent that are facing
06:38and that's not a recipe to, you know, tie this series to to
06:45what do you think's going on with Kyrie? I mean, I said after game one that he just
06:51got shots that he makes and he missed them and I think I want to say the same thing after
06:57game to look Boston's absolutely bothering him. Like this is, you know, this is not a
07:02scheme thing in Oklahoma City against Oklahoma City. He was not great. You know, he averaged
07:10something like, you know, 16 points a game and that was what Oklahoma City designed their
07:14defense to do to him. They trapped him a lot. They recognize that he was not going to make
07:20the pass as easily as Luca does out of a trap a high trap, you know near the midcourt line
07:26just because he's smaller, you know, Luca can just jump up over and make that pass over
07:30carry can't do that. And so Oklahoma City wanted to limit him. I don't think Boston
07:35wants to limit him and that's the problem. Boston is coming out here and saying, you
07:40know, you have two stars. We're going to make them score improve themselves. Luca did that
07:43in game two, you know, he played a good game in game one, but I thought he was, you know,
07:48just, you know, unplayable and I forget I watch a lot of soccer and I forget that unplayable
07:55has different meanings for soccer and soccer. It's a good thing and in basketball. It's a bad
08:00thing. Luca was, was, was, you know, in Fuego, you know, in game two, and I thought he got
08:09he got the Boston defense to shift towards him more. It wasn't blitzes. It wasn't pure
08:13double teams, but the help definitely shaded in his direction and opportunistically. There
08:19was times where Peyton Pritchard would like, you know, scream around from the top side and
08:22force a turnover or stuff like that. Kyrie hasn't done that. And for Dallas, like for
08:27Dallas to get back to, you know, for their offense to look like it did for a lot of the
08:33regular season, the postseason Kyrie has to also make Boston make that switch defensively,
08:39where they are shading more health help to them, where they're really changing what they're
08:43trying to do. And Kyrie just has given no semblance that he's going to do that. He's
08:47getting locked up consistently by these very, very, very good guards that Boston has. And I
08:53yeah, absolutely. When I look at the offense and I look what Dallas has failed at, I think,
08:58you know, it's got to start with Kyrie. It absolutely starts with Kyrie.
09:04Do you think Dallas will keep showing the amount of pressure that they've shown against Tatum?
09:08Because that's obviously what's allowed him to have a 12 assist game at this point and just get
09:12everybody involved and spray all these passes around. I understand it to try to limit him.
09:16And they have from a scoring perspective and frustrate him. And, you know, even to some of
09:21the kids comments there, you see just what they're trying to do in terms of trying to get Tatum to,
09:25you know, be a guy who just takes a million shots and tries to get his own, but he hasn't done that
09:30to this point. So you think that'll change? I mean, I definitely think they're collapsing
09:34on him when he drives. So the problem is that he's driving so easily. I just saw this tweet.
09:39I don't, I don't know where it is, where it's at, but he had like 26 drives in game two.
09:43And that's like a, it's a post season high, you know, something close to a regular season high.
09:49Dallas can't stay in front. And it's a little weird to me that I really think so much of Derek
09:55Jones, Jr. As a, as a point of attack defender, he hasn't been that good defensively in this
10:00series. He's had moments. Absolutely. But, you know, I guess I'm wondering,
10:05you know, and I was talking about how Boston nullify some of some of Dallas's scheme is that
10:11all of these defenders for months now have been so used to, you know, favoring the hand, like,
10:19like forcing them to the middle, really, like, usually when you're a defender, you want to force
10:24them to the baseline, to the corner, Dallas favors, you know, like a guy on the wing,
10:28they want them to drive middle because they know how much help they're going to have there.
10:32They, they, they, they know they have resources that they have, you know, teammates ready to
10:37stick up for them. And because Boston pulls apart, you know, they just stretch it out,
10:44you know, like, like, I don't know, like a croissant, like you're just,
10:47you know, it's like halfway through like tearing, ripping a croissant apart. Like,
10:51that's what this Dallas defense has looked like just a little bit more stretched a little bit,
10:56you know, less connective than, than what I saw from them, which was a genuinely impressive
11:00defense for, like I said, months now. And I guess that's probably the best answer I have
11:07for why the point of attack stuff is not working. And then of course, the other reason is that Jason
11:12Tatum is a very good player, and that he has been very good in both games, despite the shooting
11:17that he has made an impact. So I do think they're still going to focus most of their attention,
11:22you know, more of their attention around him than other players. I just think that Dallas
11:27has to be better defensively, you know, even in the one on one matchups, even with their best
11:32players, you know, supposedly, you know, being players who can stop him. That's that's where
11:38they got to be better. And if that doesn't change, and the series is over, you know, not not in,
11:42you know, it's not a Celtics win. It's a it's a sweep. You know, if Tatum keeps doing this every
11:46game, like there is no chance Dallas can can win, especially because I do expect I think we all
11:51expect that he will have better shooting performances coming up. What have you thought
11:57of Chris steps so far? Obviously, some uncertainty now with his health again, in this series, which
12:02you probably could have expected. If he's limited to it. Yeah. If he's out even in these Dallas
12:09games, how much does that change things? Oh, so much, you know, so much. I I'm like,
12:16I'm impressed with them. And just like, I'm proud is not the right word. I'm a I'm a media member.
12:21But like, I watched this guy unable to make these shots, you know, like consistently just knock down
12:28these shots. I remember his last season in Dallas. I don't have that. I don't have it in front of me.
12:32But he was shooting like 32% on threes. And I remember talking to him like he was someone I
12:37really enjoyed covering. And I'm sure you've kind of got the same experience that he's very,
12:41he is he's one of the most self aware, maybe, maybe not always self aware of how he but but
12:47he's willing to talk about how he thinks about the game. He's willing to go through everything
12:52that's going through his mind about this thing happened. So I tried this and that didn't work.
12:57And then I realized this other thing needs to happen. Like he is very open and honest about
13:01how he processes the sport. And for as open as honest as he is, I remember when he was just
13:08missing shots in Dallas last season, right before he got traded. He was just like, I don't know.
13:13I don't know why they're not going down. And you know, those around the team were like, yeah,
13:17we don't know why they're not going down. Like he's a very good shooter. So for him to come back,
13:22you know, for him to really find this, you know, this, this balance, this equilibrium,
13:27you know, for him to embrace analytics, you know, you know, my colleague,
13:31Jay King wrote a really good piece about that, for him to understand that there are ways that,
13:36you know, that the numbers can show what makes a good shot for him or not.
13:40I think that has all been, you know, just like such a cool journey for a player who was the
13:44first unicorn and maybe there are unicorns surpassing him, but you know, he's, he's somebody
13:50that women Yama should be looking up for, like looking up to. And I, and I think, and I think
13:55he will be, you know, as Porzingis comes back and assuming he's healthy or, you know, if he's able
14:01to continue this type of performances in the next few games, I really do think that this is like,
14:07just such a, you know, iconic player that like the first of an archetype that, you know, may
14:12have raced past him, but, but he started this whole thing, you know, he, he's, he's the first
14:18one. And I think that's really fair to say in terms of like, just the, you know, just the
14:23monster two way performances, the rim protector and three point shot maker that he's been.
14:30What's it going to look like if Dallas does turn this around at home,
14:34we mentioned Kyrie a little bit and Luca, what he's done to this point, carrying most of the
14:38weight, the role guys, you mentioned lively in particular needing to get involved, obviously
14:43here has to change certainly, but it's going to be more of a just re higher height and stealing
14:49a game or two here, or is it going to be other guys stepping up? I think it has to be the other
14:55guys, because like, this is what I expect from Luca throughout the rest of the series. Like,
14:59I don't think he can give anymore. He was clearly completely, he had, he had given everything. He
15:04was gassed in the fourth quarter. Kyrie didn't step up, but he was deferring to Kyrie and he was
15:10doing that on purpose. Like, I think that was something that he understood that he did not
15:14have the ability to keep doing that. He's, he is dealing with injuries and he's dealing with,
15:19you know, the constant targeting that, that Boston is sending against him. You know,
15:23like he's had to defend a lot. He has had good moments, but he has not quite looked like the
15:29defender that he has been for a lot of this postseason and a lot of even this, this regular
15:34season. And so, yeah, I think it's Kyrie. I think it starts with Kyrie and then I think it goes to
15:41Derek Lively and then it goes to any role player who can make an open shot. Like I think Dante
15:46Exum is going to be the first player off the bench to not tomorrow, two days from now in game three.
15:53I, because he made one shot, he made one open shot and that's enough right now. When you look
16:00at the role players, none of them are doing that. So you play the guy who made one open shot and you
16:06see if he can do it. And Dante Exum was fantastic for Dallas in the regular season. It's been,
16:10you know, a real bummer, you know, another player I've enjoyed, you know, covering and talking to,
16:15you know, he was so good for them in the regular season and he's, he's gone absent a little bit.
16:19And for him to be someone, you know, he's, he's had eight three-pointer game, you know, like eight
16:26made threes in a game because the Lakers, when people, you know, dared him to shoot consistently
16:30throughout a game. This is something he is potentially capable of. So yeah, I think Dallas
16:37needs Kyrie. They need Derek Lively to be as good, if not better about like truly being a switchy
16:44perimeter, you know, a big who's capable of defending on the perimeter and also someone who
16:51can still get to the paint and disrupt some of this, you know, just ridiculously good, you know,
16:58REM shooting that, that, that Boston has had. But I, but I also think that they need run like at
17:04least one role player they trust to make those shots. And Hey, they say role players shoot better
17:09at home, you know, like that's, it's, it's those three things and it's the role players, but it's
17:13about performances. I don't think, I don't think there's a strategy adjustment. It's about the
17:17players playing better. And so far they just haven't. Yeah. What's going on with the shooting
17:23right now? It's bad across the board for all of these guys. Like you said, XM making one,
17:28it was like, Ooh, if, and if he missed that, it would have really went downhill from that point
17:32on. Yeah. I mean, first time they've been on the stage. I'm sure that's a little bit of it.
17:40Um, you know, they, they have inconsistent shooters. They have streaky shooters.
17:44Like this is something that Dallas has had to deal with, but when Boston is not giving
17:51them those corner looks, it's a lot harder to build that rhythm. You know, there are,
17:56you know, there's a couple of times where Derek Jones jr, you know, Derek Jones jr had an airball,
18:00PJ Washington had, had a couple of misses, but I just remember them going up for the shots.
18:05And it's like, it's been, it's been 10 minutes since you've had to, you know, do this muscle
18:11memory that, um, you know, is going to determine whether the shot goes down or not. And that's a
18:17credit to the way that Boston is playing them. And, you know, if you can live with, you know,
18:23the Luca points and, and certainly they have their two games. And if you can say, you know,
18:27even if he's making shots, even if he's getting to the rim, he had five, uh, five shots in the
18:32restricted area in game one, uh, the most he's had in any game of the playoffs. And
18:37they, it took a lot out of him. He kept hitting the floor, you know, like nobody knows,
18:42even Luca said he didn't know where this chest injury that popped up came from, um, which, which
18:48he said it maybe was a charge, but like, maybe it was hitting the floor time and time again,
18:52because that is, you know, Boston kept giving him the lane and the rim. They were being very,
18:59you know, diligent and not over helping onto him and giving his teammates, you know, the,
19:05the shots that they've been getting all post season. And all of a sudden Luca is more banged
19:10up and it's taking a lot out of him. And he's, he's, you know, being someone who that, uh,
19:14Boston is focusing a lot of their attacks on. And so it's, it's, it's a, it's a combination of the
19:21Boston and the stage and just the inconsistency that these players have.
19:26So, you know, maybe it'll be better at home. Maybe it won't. Um, if it isn't then the series,
19:32you know, maybe, maybe I'm canceling my, uh, my, my flight back to Boston. Uh, you know, that's,
19:37that's, that's already in the books. I, I think we're going to get at least a five game series,
19:41but you know, that's the type of situation we're looking at. If the role players don't make shots
19:45and I've sorry, I've, I've been, I've been monologuing logging for quite a while now.
19:49I just want to say, I keep saying like this thing has to change or Dallas is, you know,
19:56screwed. And I've said that like three times about three different things.
20:00So that kind of comes, I think all those things can change. I'm just saying, there's like several
20:06different things that have to change for Dallas to become competitive, like more than competitive,
20:11but like even up the series in these two games at home. Yeah. And that was going to be my last
20:16question for you is, is this series over at this point? Do you have a level of confidence?
20:21Dallas can turn this around and really make it a series. They're like, where's your level
20:24of confidence in that at this point? And if not, what has made Boston so overwhelming to the point
20:31where it doesn't look like Dallas is on their level so far in this series, despite what Dallas
20:35has gone through in the West, Minnesota, and you know, all these different tests they've had.
20:42I'm not quite at white flags, you know, territory. I think, I think it's a little bit early to be
20:48there with this team. Some of that comes from the fact that I have watched this team. I've watched
20:53them erase deficits over and over again, you know, both in this post season and in the regular season.
21:00I was in Phoenix two years ago when Dallas went down Oh two, and then came back in that. You know,
21:06like I've seen this team and I guess specifically I've seen Luca show a type of really like
21:13resiliency, you know, show, you know, he, he came out of a game. He was so good in those first two
21:19games against Phoenix and Dallas lost both, both of them handily. And he was picked on, he was
21:24picked on defensively over and over again. And then all of a sudden he comes back out and, you know,
21:29he's fantastic the rest of the time. And, you know, that's where, you know, all the, all the memes that
21:34we see so often come from. So look, proximity bias, just from covering this team so closely,
21:41I'm not willing to rule them out. I still think that some of these things that can change
21:46that need to change, I think are able to change. It's just a lot of things that are
21:50going to change. A lot of players got to be better. Why has it been so hard? Like,
21:55why is Boston been so good? Was the other part of your question? I mean, I think, I think we're,
22:00you know, if, if Boston wins the series, we're going to look at back at the steam as a historically
22:04great team. I genuinely believe that, you know, everything about their numbers, about their wins,
22:10about the way that they rolled through the Eastern conference, which is weaker than the
22:15West, but it's, you know, it's not easy per se, you know, it got a lot of advantage with,
22:21with injuries to, to star players. But I just think this Boston team is really good. I think
22:26it is the, I think historically it is the best space team, maybe not the best shooting because
22:33of those Steph warriors teams. It is the best space team of all time. We have never seen an
22:39NBA team have a seven man rotation that you cannot, you know, an eight man rotation where
22:45every single player will shoot eight threes in a, in a, in a half, if you give them to them.
22:52That's special, man. You know, that's where the NBA is headed more and more, but Boston was the
22:57first team to do it, you know, and, you know, win or lose. And again, it's obviously massively
23:03favoring the fact that they're going to win the series. They were the first team to really
23:09bring in a era that I think over the next decade or two, we're going to see constantly in the NBA.
23:17Oh, here's the bonus question. The most important one of the night,
23:20where can I get some food in Dallas this time? This time of night, 10 PM. Let's see.
23:30Pop over to, to rodeo bar. That's my, that's my my home spot and their kitchen's open until
23:35midnight, maybe 11, but you've got an hour here. They've got, I've got real solid food.
23:40It's got a lot of Texas motifs. Tell, tell them I sent you and they'll, they'll take good care of
23:46you. All right. I love it. Tim Cato. Appreciate him taking over. I think that's a first time
23:52taking over the whole show due to my show now. Yeah, it's absolutely my show now. So I'll do
24:00the, I'll do the closer. Thanks listeners for listening. It's appreciate you tuning in on a
24:05Monday night. We've got a show coming probably later this week, I'm sure. And we'll see you
24:11next time. Appreciate that. I'll do the ad reads. Don't worry about those Tim. Okay. Thank God.
24:20And I will see your practice tomorrow. Practice both teams practicing tomorrow here in Dallas
24:24and game three is sent eight 30, probably an eight 30 Eastern. No seven 30. Oh yeah.
24:30Eight 30 Eastern. But for us at seven 30, which thank God I'm very happy about. So thank you,
24:37Tim. Again, we'll talk to you later this week or whenever. Sometime later is maybe
24:48all right. So let's get into those reads. You know, we're going to try to get them
24:54here despite these connection issues. And I certainly won't be coming to you from this
24:58hotel room again here today. That was rough, but we got through it. So there's any lag here,
25:03you know, you always see them on the lower third here. Check out prize picks right now
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26:50that free appetizer for life. And we made it. We made it through. Thank you, Hotel Wi-Fi.
26:57Thank you all for being here. Sorry about the time change. I screwed that one up. I didn't
27:05actually put it in here as 930 Central. I added it as 930 Eastern. So appreciate everybody hanging
27:13around for the show in the chat here. And thanks again to Tim for doing this. Celtics are up 2-0
27:19in the series. We'll get word on Porzingis tomorrow. See how he's doing. Nothing yet
27:23from anybody. It looked like he traveled and didn't have anything on his lower body there
27:29in terms of braces or anything like that. And he said it wasn't related to the previous injury.
27:35So I guess we'll take his word for it. He said he expects to play. So
27:47we will see. But that's it. Off day edition of the Garden Report.