Rachel, Lauren and Dave were lucky enough to have tickets for the opening weekend of Taylor Swift's Eras Tour in the UK. Here they reminisce over a once in a lifetime experience, or in some cases twice (Dave was at Murrayfield on Saturday and Sunday nights).
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00:00Hello, everyone. My name is Rachel. I work at The Scotsman with Dave and Lauren, who
00:09are also here. We've had a pretty impressive weekend here in Scotland with Taylor Swift
00:16bringing her Eros tour to Edinburgh. And goodness knows how, because we don't have very good
00:24three of us were able to go. Dave went twice, which means he's used up all of the luck that
00:30he's got in his entire life. So I do expect very sort of comic slapstick things to happen
00:35to him during this call as his luck completely runs out. So we're just going to talk about our
00:43favourite thing, which is Taylor Swift. We may as well record every single meeting we're all
00:48in together because that's what we always talk about anyway. So, Lauren, first up, how about
00:55you? You went on Friday night. So you actually saw it before us because I was Saturday and Dave
01:00is Saturday, Sunday. What did you think, Lauren? First night, opening night. You found out very
01:07last minute you were going as well. Yeah, I think I found out. I think it was like exactly 24 hours
01:13before that I was going to, I was going to see the Eros tour. I would've been going down for work
01:19anyway. And it led to like a frantic, like last minute packing, rebooking my train, changing train
01:26times. And then once I actually got through to Edinburgh, I had no idea. I just had no thoughts
01:35really until the concert started. Like I'd kind of been running in and out when I was there. Like
01:40the only thing, the only time that it really sunk in was once actually she started singing.
01:46And then I had no words. I just started crying. Like I immediately started crying. Like she came on stage
01:52and immediately I was just sobbing. But yeah, I didn't find it just the last minute. So I didn't
01:59really, it didn't sink in until that moment in time, even with Paramore being on. In my head,
02:04I was like, oh, I've seen Paramore before. It didn't even click for me. And then I was just
02:08totally amazed and shocked. I've never been in a crowd that was quite so, just nice. Like everyone
02:14there was just so lovely. Everyone that was like surrounding me was just happy to be there. Like
02:19usually with like crowds, like last time I was at a stadium and it was a concert and it was for a
02:24certain of Taylor's exes, the crowd was just, they were horrible. It wasn't a very fun experience at
02:28all. And I hadn't expected that going in and I'd spoken to people before the show. So I kind of
02:34knew that it was going to be a completely different vibe altogether. Everyone was just
02:37so up for anything. But still, it was just incredible on like every level, from like her
02:44singing, from her performance, from her like staging, from the people around me. It was just
02:50almost flawless. So.
02:53I thought I was going to cry because I'm a big crier. And sometimes I'll just have her music on
03:00like while I'm working or driving or something. And I'll just burst into tears because one of my
03:04favorite songs will come on and I'm just not ready for it. And I actually didn't, I think like you,
03:10I found out quite late I was going and I was in such a state of like, for just most of the way
03:17through that I didn't cry. But I found the next day I was watching back videos that I'd taken
03:24and then I burst into tears. Like I got the moment where she sort of said, welcome to the
03:28era Stuart. I'm watching the video that I had taken when I was there in human form, but watch
03:34my own video. I burst into tears and then I really felt it then. It was very unusual to my reaction.
03:41Dave, what about you on your both nights?
03:44Well, I'm absolutely staggered by your talk of not crying instantly. I started crying the moment
03:49she appeared on stage. It's a point that psychologically when I go to a gig that big,
03:53I've been looking forward to. I, unlike you guys, got my tickets about a year ago. So I've been
03:57looking forward to this for a very, very long time and I never really thought it was going to
04:00happen. I thought that even at the last minute there was going to come a sign up at Murrayfield
04:04going terribly sorry, Taylor can't come. That's it, you've basically seen Paramore, you can go home
04:09now. And so up until the moment she was on stage, I genuinely didn't believe it was going to happen.
04:13So both me and my partner Vicky started crying at the start of it and pretty much continued to sob
04:20all the way through it for the first night. The first night we were high up in the south stands,
04:24which looked straight up onto the stage. So it was a kind of funny experience. I hate stadium
04:29gigs and if I ever go to a stadium gig, I always stand because I loathe sitting because usually
04:33you're sat next to somebody who's an idiot, who talks through the show or videos the show
04:38or just wants to chat about their weekend or sings really badly off key right in your ear.
04:42It wasn't like that at all. Everybody sitting around us was absolutely lovely. We had a
04:45beautiful, beautiful view of the stage. Taylor was that big for the entire concert. But you can
04:51see all the video, you can see the theatricality. It looked like the biggest Vegas show there's ever
04:56been. The biggest Vegas show. Go to Las Vegas, you know, spend 500 pounds on a ticket. It looked
05:02like that. It was absolutely incredible. And the second night on the Sunday, we were right at the
05:07front. We were feet away from Taylor Swift. She made eye contact with me several times,
05:13which is very exciting, which made me cry harder. But funnily enough, I thought that the second
05:17night, because I kind of knew it was going to happen, I didn't actually quite quite so much.
05:23I was kind of more able to enjoy it because I'd kind of seen it before. I knew vaguely what was
05:27going to happen, so I could really enjoy the kind of minutiae of the show and just take it all in
05:32properly. And again, all the people in the standing section, I was worried again because I thought,
05:35well, those are the seated people. Maybe the standing people will be drunk and bullshit.
05:39But again, like Lauren says, everyone was just lovely from the pub beforehand to queuing to get
05:46into the venue to inside. There were no queues at the bar because, like you said, Rachel,
05:50nobody wanted to get drunk. Nobody wanted to go to the toilet. So the entire, I had two pints
05:55beforehand and that was plenty. And I made sure I stopped drinking before Paramore started,
06:01which meant I could pop out one last time for Taylor. So both nights, three and a half hours,
06:05no toilet visits, no bar visits. And it's just I've seen a lot of stadium gigs, almost all of
06:10them have been rubbish. And that was genuinely, I go to three gigs a week that those were right up
06:15with the best gigs I've ever gone into my life. And I didn't expect that. Like I knew I was going
06:18to love it, but not as much as I did. I think the crowd point is really
06:23interesting. So I mean, we all have obviously written quite a lot about Taylor for the paper.
06:29It's how we sort of justify this weekend. I think a lot about why Taylor Swift is so popular.
06:37Obviously, she's basically just incredibly talented and good at what she does. But I think
06:42she also encourages in her fans, in her audiences, this kind of like unrestrained joy,
06:50like you're in a place where you don't have to act cool. You don't have to be ashamed of feeling
06:55emotional, happy. You don't have to be ashamed of being heartbroken.
06:59You know, she like encourages in her fan base this whole, yeah, just being really sort of
07:06unrestrained about how you feel. And I think that's why the crowd is so nice is everyone's
07:11just so open and welcoming and happy and joyous. And I think you don't often get that.
07:19Absolutely. And also, I think part of that is the whole getting dressed up thing. I was wearing a
07:22kilt one night, I was wearing a daff red waistcoat, glitter hats, the whole works, and almost
07:27everybody dressed up. And that's lovely as well, because it's the whole thing that you start the
07:31day, you know, early in the morning, listening to Taylor Swift, getting your lovely clothes on,
07:35going on, like admiring everyone's outfits, exchanging friendship laces. I think the gig
07:39starts way before the actual gig starts. And that's not usually the case. It's usually all
07:43about getting to the gig, getting there, seeing the music. But yeah, I think that it's a proper
07:49360 degree experience from the fans. And the fans love each other. I saw people,
07:54there were people picking up rubbish off the pitch at Murrayfields and putting them into bins.
07:59I mean, it's just lovely. It's so, so nice. And I've never seen that at a gig before.
08:04But there's lots of stuff I've never seen at a gig before. I mean, nobody pushed,
08:08nobody pushed, so I was relatively close to the front. And I expected that horrible,
08:13last minute rush of usually boozed up guys, just getting to the front, they don't care,
08:18just straight through. Nobody did that. Where you were an hour before she came on was where
08:23you stayed, and nobody tried to muscle in. And again, never experienced that before at a gig.
08:29No, definitely not.
08:30You said you were standing a wee bit back because you're not a fan of crowds?
08:35No. Well, my sister, she would probably disagree with me if she heard this, but she doesn't tend
08:39to do the best in crowd situations. Just like, she has like a tolerance for it, which I totally
08:44respect. So usually where if I'm like going myself, or if I'm going with friends or something,
08:48I'm muscling forward, I'm going as far forward as I possibly can. I don't care about being crushed.
08:52But I wasn't going to do that for Taylor Swift, A, because I wanted to enjoy myself. And sometimes
08:57doing that can ruin your experience, because then you just end up feeling like totally trapped,
09:01and it's not as fun. And also because I was mindful of, she might need to get out,
09:05she might need to take a minute or whatever. And she did have to take a minute, like a couple of
09:09points, but she got in and out so easily. Like she didn't have to like shove and elbow her way
09:14to get back to me. She didn't have to do that. And she could just kind of pass and say like,
09:18excuse me. And where we stood, we still had a great view, especially like certain points
09:23when she came like to the front, like I had an excellent view, but it was like,
09:28just, I don't want to say it was calm, because it wasn't calm. Everyone was having a great time.
09:32Everyone was like jumping around and screaming along and singing. And everyone was quite clearly
09:36enjoying themselves. But it was just the sense of community that was there that no one really wanted
09:42to be disruptive. I found I think I saw one person being like so unwell that they kind of got taken
09:48out of the crowd. One person normally when I'm at gigs, it's like, countless. There's so many people
09:54who are clearly just, they're drunk, or, you know, and they're like, shoving past you. But
09:59I just didn't have that experience at all. And as you both kind of said, just that experience of it
10:05really added to the overall just atmosphere of the night, because,
10:10my God, hearing all those people just echoing back the words are, and it was just something else.
10:17Well, you're going to make me cry again. I'm getting goosebumps. I'm getting goosebumps
10:21just hearing you say that. It's just beginning to come back.
10:23Amy, she's got tissues. That brings me nicely on to what our favourite bits were. I'll go first.
10:30I've been thinking a lot about this. And I will change my mind upwards of 10 times after I've
10:36said it, because all of it was my favourite bit. But I think, because obviously, the Airstream
10:41had been going for a while, I'd seen a lot of the sets before. I'd kind of seen a lot of what it was
10:47going to look like. Tortured Poets Department section. What? What an era. What a performance.
10:55Theatre. And I think when, who's afraid of Little Old Me? And spoiler alert, if anyone hasn't been.
11:01Like, it looks like she levitates. She's on that, like, cool Roomba thing that just flies around the
11:07stage. And I just, I've heard, you know, at that point, two, two and a half hours in, to be hitting
11:14those notes on a flying Roomba. I just, I couldn't take my eyes off it. It was like, ah, it was
11:23astonishing. It was astonishing. So I think that moment for me of just, oh, was my favourite bit.
11:34But maybe also when she sings All Too Well, because I love that song, and I know every word,
11:38and I sing it with 70,000 people, and that was also a great one. But Dave, favourite bit on the
11:44spot, go for it. I could talk about this for hours, but yeah, Tortured Poets Society, for various
11:49reasons, you're right, the theatricality of it was brilliant. But also because of the slight
11:53sniffiness from maybe non-Taylor Swift fans about the Tortured Poets Department album, which I think
12:00I'm going to say now, it's my favourite Taylor Swift album, it's overtaken in folklore now,
12:04it's just risen to the top. And I just thought it was, it was absolutely, for all the reasons you
12:09say, but the sound of the crowd singing along to these songs, which apparently aren't as good as
12:14their other albums, the fans massively disagree. I mean, Who's Afraid of Little Old Me was the
12:19biggest kind of continual sing-along, there were lots of big lines that were being sung back out,
12:23but I thought the loudest continual sing-along was for that. And then all the rest of that section,
12:31and going into Midnight's as well, which isn't my favourite Taylor Swift album, but it was my
12:34second favourite era, because I thought the end of it was so incredibly strong.
12:40And so yeah, definitely, definitely for me, those two eras, just, I could watch those two eras
12:46every night for the rest of my life and never get bored of it, I absolutely could, it's wonderful.
12:51But also, straight out for Love Story as well, because I cry harder at Love Story
12:57than at any other song, and I've worked out that it is the key change, right? She's got a
13:02key change in it, some kind of magic key change, and when the key change comes, I just start to
13:07cry when I'm listening to it on record or whatever else, so shout out for that, because that's the
13:12song I cry hardest at, and I don't really know why, but I do, it's a key change.
13:15I do that with Fearless, and I don't know why. It's something about, you know,
13:19dancing in the storm in your best dress, I'm out, I'm out, man down, I'm just, I'm gone.
13:25Lauren, go for it, favourite bit on the spot?
13:28If we're going, like, absolute favourite bit, I loved, loved, loved, loved, I Can Do It With
13:34a Broken Heart. I just, the theatricality of it all, I don't know if that's why it stuck out in
13:38my head so much, but I think, like, in terms of the moments that I think about the most,
13:42it's probably that one. In terms of the moments that I cried the most to, all too well, but I had,
13:46like, a mini mental breakdown during Champagne Problems, and I won't lie, and I was, obviously,
13:51the Friday was the, I don't know what it was like at your guys' show, but the Friday night was the
13:55night that she had the three-minute-long standing ovation for that. She, like, took her earpieces
13:59out and just stood there and, like, accepted it, but I was sobbing. I'm, like, a sad girl at heart.
14:05I listen to sad girl music. I think, like, my last two concerts before that were, like,
14:09Bleachers and Mitski, if that says anything about me, you know, and it was just one of
14:14those things that I just, I just was, like, completely, like, overwhelmed when Champagne
14:19Problems came on, and I wouldn't even say that's one of my favorite songs of hers. I love it, but
14:24I wouldn't say it's one of my favorites. It's not the one I cried to the most if I decide to listen
14:27to her, but for some reason, it just completely caught me off guard, and I was just, my sister
14:33was laughing at me, and I was, like, how dare you? How dare you? But I just, I honestly have
14:42no words. I think that's the thing I'm struggling with, is, like, I don't know how to talk about it.
14:45I don't know how to discuss this, like, rationally, because I don't think it, I don't think I've
14:50really sunk in. I don't think it's really, I've really processed it yet, but yeah, so either
14:55those two. We've all gone Torture Poets as our, you know, one of our top ears for the show.
15:02I love the album. I am one of those fans who adore it. I think it's maybe joint second for me with
15:08Midnight. Folklore is my favorite album. When I die and I get, you know, cut open, folklore will be
15:14sitting right in the center of my heart. I love it so much.
15:19Can I ask you Rachel, when it comes to, I was going to ask you when it comes to folklore,
15:27I thought that the merging of the two albums, Folklore and Evermore, slightly, do you not think
15:33it maybe wasn't quite as good as it might be? I have not seen the tour film, because I promised
15:39myself I would not look at a single outfit, film, video, or clip, actually, before going to see it,
15:43but I understand from a friend who went to see it in the States, that she thinks that it suffers
15:48quite a bit because they lose both the one and the last Great American Dynasty, which apparently
15:54were two big theatrical high points within that, and losing that, I thought it was a slightly
16:00weaker section. Not that I didn't love it, and like I say Folklore was one of my favorite albums,
16:03but I thought it was slightly weaker compared to some of the albums that I'm not such a fan of,
16:08including Reputation. I thought Reputation era was absolutely insane.
16:12Reputation was insane. It's slightly lower down my album list, but yeah, that set was incredible.
16:17I suppose that's really interesting, because this is not a revelation to anyone. Obviously,
16:23you react very differently to music when you're seeing and hearing it live, and the set pieces,
16:29than when you're, you know, lying on your bed sobbing, and you have it playing in the background.
16:34I did go and see the movie when it came out at the cinema. Loved it. I was sad to lose
16:42the last Great American Dynasty. I was also sad to lose the orange dress that she wore for the
16:49Evermore era, and like all of the stuff that came with it. The tolerator she had, and she had like
16:58a table, and she was like smashing glasses off the table. I mean, it was an incredible set piece, but
17:04I don't know. If anyone had asked me, which, why would they have? Why would she call me and ask?
17:09I would have said, just make it four hours. Keep the show exactly the same, and just add
17:13tortured poets in, but I can understand she had to make cuts to fit it in, and
17:21it works for me. It all worked. Folklore, I love it so much, and I thought the section did work.
17:27I thought songs that she picked to keep did work. Folklore must be a really difficult
17:34sort of planning operation to make it land on a big stage, in a big concert, because it feels
17:41like more of a sort of corner of a pub with a guitar, kind of beautiful, soulful moment, but
17:48I loved it. I loved it. I did that thing where I gasped when she started singing, even though I
17:52knew what she was about to start singing. I was like, and it was lovely, but yeah. Midnights was
18:00the ending, with the fireworks and the confetti. And it was amazing. I don't, and Karma's not my
18:06favourite soul on Midnights, or even in my top half of Midnights, but it works, and I was,
18:10I genuinely didn't think it was going to work. I was going, but Karma's going to finish this,
18:14and there's so many highs. How's Karma going to finish this? But it works absolutely brilliantly.
18:18She knows best. Taylor knows best, and Karma's a great way to finish the show, and really,
18:22I know it feels like the end of a party, doesn't it, when Karma comes up? It feels like New Year's
18:26Eve or something. It's just wonderful, absolutely wonderful. Are we going to discuss surprise songs?
18:34I think we all sort of, in our own way, feel like we got luckiest, and I was running the blog
18:41for the Erased Tour on Friday, and a little bit on Saturday morning, before Laura and you took over,
18:46and I wrote several times in the blog, because I was just pretending it was my own little,
18:51rather than a sort of official thing. You were manifesting. Exactly, and I was like, I want the
18:55Bolta. I want the Bolta. It's a nice song. I love it. It's a great track off Tortured Poets.
19:00It would be incredible if she sung it. I want to hear it. I want it to be a surprise song,
19:04and I said this to my pal when we were going along, and we were talking about what songs we wanted to hear,
19:09and when she started playing it, it was a real moment for me, of everything she could have
19:14done, and so I feel like I won, because she then mashed it with Getaway Car, which was
19:21a phenomenal, a phenomenal time to be alive, and to be there, and to be enjoying it,
19:27but then, Lauren, you got incredibly lucky as well. Yeah, we got Would Have, Could Have, Should Have,
19:33and Tis the Damn Season, which, I mean, I just, I have no words. I have no words, and also we had the
19:42hand cramp, like when her hand started cramping, and she was like pointing with her guitar, because
19:45someone was having like trouble in the crowd, and then she's like, her hand just like froze, so
19:50there's like a minute where she just, which I just feel like speaks to the Scottish weather, but yeah,
19:54I feel very lucky for having seen both of those, and yeah, I just, I, again, I struggled to talk
20:01about this, because I'm just like, no words, but I'm also, I will admit, I'm both, I'm jealous of both
20:08of you, because Crazier and Exile, those are probably two of my favourite songs, and you go
20:15both, like, you know, obviously got to experience. I know, I got Crazier, I couldn't believe Dave got
20:20Exile, of all the people who didn't deserve it, Dave. I feel very greedy for taking two days, so many people
20:28have criticised me, going, you know, someone else could have had that experience, but I was going, I was
20:31having two different experiences. I remember when you got your ticket, I remember, I was literally in the
20:37room with you when you got your ticket, and I was just like, and I remember you called, you called your
20:41wife, and you were like, should I do this, and you did it, and honestly, I wasn't, I never managed to get
20:47tickets on that same day, and I wasn't even mad at you for getting two sets of tickets, because,
20:51you know, you literally had the mindset of, you tried for the Friday, you couldn't get them, you got
20:55the Saturday ones, you got kind of rubbish seats, you were like, I want to see if I can get better
20:58seats for the, for the Sunday, and you managed to, and honestly, it was just that type of process.
21:03I can't blame you for doing it, because I know how big of a Taylor Swift fan you are, as you know,
21:08can you, can you whip out your Taylor Swift spoon? Yes, I've got my Taylor Swift, very
21:14few people have got Taylor Swift's wooden spoons, but I, but I have got one, so yeah.
21:22But no, it was great. It's in terms of every meeting we have as well.
21:29It's just lurking somewhere within arm's reach.
21:32We're all also wearing our bracelets, aren't we all?
21:35Friendship bracelets, yeah, absolutely.
21:39Right.
21:39I think we were all very lucky for the surprise songs, I thought they were all,
21:43all just absolutely superb. I didn't really know Crazier, but it got a massive reaction,
21:48and I don't really know it very well, that was the one song that I didn't know any of the words to.
21:53I mean this with like, little offence, but is this a generational thing? Like,
21:59because like, it was just, when I was growing up, that was like, come on, like crazy.
22:04I mean, it got a massive reaction, not as much as the opening lines into Getaway Car,
22:08which I think was the loudest moment of the Saturday gig, and actually the loudest moment
22:13of the Sunday gig was Miby going into exile as well, that was, that was absolutely astonishing,
22:18and also Dorothea, shout out for Dorothea, which was, which was really, really amazing.
22:22I like how Lauren's like, Dave, is it because you're 72 years old that you've done all this?
22:26No, no, no, let's, I would never, I would never.
22:31I don't mind, it's true, it's true.
22:34I think it might be, because obviously, I was like, I don't even know how old I was when
22:38Taylor Swift's like, first like, love story came out, like what year did that come out again,
22:41was it like 2007, 2000?
22:44I think it was about 2006, 2005, 2006.
22:48Because, yeah, because I was like, I was very young when that came out, and that was,
22:52I've just grown up with like, her music, and maybe I went through a phase in high school
22:56where I decided I was too cool for it, and then I very much realised, oh wow, that's boring,
22:59I don't want to live my life that way.
23:01And yeah, and then I got firmly back into Taylor Swift.
23:05But yeah, I've just, she's been pretty much with me for like, almost my entire life,
23:09if you consider that.
23:11So it's just one of those things, especially earlier stuff, like I just have such a response
23:15to it that I don't know how to kind of, it's just one of those things that I, it's, you
23:21know, she's almost been part of the furniture of like, my life, and then it's like, when
23:24things are like, pushed into your face, you just are like, oh yeah, that is a thing that
23:29I, you know, it's been with me, and I'm like, oh my god, fair.
23:33So why do you think that is?
23:35Let's move on to sort of, the last section.
23:37Why is Taylor Swift so popular?
23:39Why could we talk for eight hours about her?
23:42Why is this the second time today that we've all gathered to discuss how much we love her,
23:48and how much we love her concert, and her music?
23:50Why, why do we think she's so popular?
23:53Lauren, why, why is she part of your furniture?
23:57It just, as I've said, she's one of those like, musicians that I've kind of grown up
24:03with, for me personally, like I've grown up with her music.
24:06She's almost been the soundtrack to entire sections of my life without me kind of realising
24:10it, which I think is the more important part of that statement, is that I wouldn't have
24:13called myself like a Taylor Swift fan until probably Folklore came out, yet I'd listened
24:19to all of her albums, I'd heard like so much of her music, like she was someone I could
24:23definitely like, sing along to the words with, without, you know, having to think about
24:27it.
24:27But it was like, it wasn't until like a certain point where it became, and I think like with
24:31the Folklore year it kind of exemplifies it a little bit, where it was like, it hit at
24:35that right time for me personally, emotionally.
24:37And then after that I went back and looked at all of her works, and maybe stuff that
24:40people would scoff at, like I can't even describe the number of times that I've had to like
24:45defend Taylor Swift to my dad, because he thinks she's overrated, and I've had so many
24:49people say something along the same lines to me, and it's not that I don't understand
24:52where they're coming from, but I think especially for like young women in particular, as is
24:57like a lot of her fan base, she's very validating in the way that she discusses subjects, the
25:04way that she writes her music, and it's one of those things is that when you're having
25:10feelings, especially about boys, and especially with like young women, you often kind of feel
25:14like you're being made fun of for your interests, for liking xyz thing, and it's like, it's
25:18totally fine if you're a guy, and you like, you know, you're really into one thing, but
25:22for women it's very, or for young girls, it was very often when I was the case growing
25:25up, that you just get teased about it, you get bullied about it, you know, you get made
25:29fun of, because oh ha ha ha, you know, like you like this thing, and that's like so mainstream,
25:33and you know, it's like just that type of thing, whereas Taylor Swift kind of is like
25:38one of those people that, yeah you like Taylor Swift, right, you can like Taylor Swift, and
25:43she kind of validates that sort of feeling within young women, like just feel whatever
25:46you want to feel, I suppose, that's probably not the most eloquent way I could put it,
25:50but I think that's a really big part of like the sort of culture that she surrounds herself
25:54with, and why it's kind of part of the reason why she's so popular, because
26:00she is like exemplifying that type of behavior, just do what you're going to do anyway, and
26:05feel what you're going to feel, and that can be really validating, and then on the other
26:09side of it, a lot of it is smart marketing, like she's everywhere, she's
26:14she surrounds us all the time, but it's a lot of that's marketing, and a lot of it's just,
26:18you know, her herself, she may, the way she interacts with people, the way that her image
26:23is kind of shared across the world, like she's just everywhere, but I think that that goes back
26:29to she has so many different types of fans, but then she has a specific set of fans who've grown
26:32up with her as well, and that they're not going to just accept that they kind of have to move on
26:36from that, why should they, because she's growing up with them as well, you can see it in the way
26:39music changes over the years, and that sort of thing, so yeah, I'm sure there's more points I've
26:45missed out, but I'm sure you guys can absolutely expand. I actually, I completely agree with
26:50everything you said, she really like, it's so rare, I think, and we sort of caught a glimpse of
26:57the excitement that happens around it, when it happens, when the Barbie movie came out,
27:02it's so rare to have things that are made with, either with women in mind, and by women,
27:09and for women, and centering women experience, and saying like, yeah, we feel like this too,
27:15and that's okay, and you know, you shouldn't be ashamed for feeling heartbreak, or loss, or anger
27:22at the world around you, particularly, Taylor Swift's last album was basically feral, which I
27:27loved, because the world's an infuriating place, and it is validating, and it is really,
27:34it makes you feel like, oh, I'm not alone, okay, I thought I was just thinking these things,
27:41and everyone else made fun of me for it, or everyone else didn't take it seriously,
27:46and now here is the biggest, you know, star in the world, saying, yeah, no, it's fine,
27:50I felt like that before, here is a really beautiful woman, and I'm like, okay,
27:54I felt like that before, here is a really beautiful song about it, and it, it's that
27:59kind of feeling of inclusion, and validation, that I think a lot of people get with her work,
28:05that's what I think, Dave. No, I think, yeah, no, because I think she is completely relatable,
28:11and admittedly, she may be slightly more relatable to a 16 year old girl, but she's entirely
28:17relatable to a 48 year old man like me, and people are sniffy about Taylor Swift, and those people
28:23are just wrong, I mean, they are, they're definitely wrong, because she is a brilliant
28:27songwriter, there's no doubt about that, she is a brilliant lyricist, there's no doubt about that,
28:31I can, I can draw you graphs that prove this to be the case mathematically, you know,
28:35and so the people are sniffy about it, I find that, of people of my generation, my age, old
28:40white men basically, the people who don't like Taylor Swift tend to be the people who really
28:44don't like music that much, they kind of make a pretense that's enjoying music, and going to the
28:49five bands every year, but they're not going down to King Tut's to see new bands, they're not really
28:54interested in new music, or different genres, they're the people who go and see Springsteen
29:00at Murrayfield, and there's nothing wrong with Bruce Springsteen, he's a great artist, I really
29:02like seeing him live, but they're the people who go to one gig a year, you know, people who go to
29:06lots of gigs, people who like music, people who work in record shops love Taylor Swift, now if,
29:11if people who work in, in record shops, any record shop you go into, you ask the person behind the
29:16counter, what do you think of Taylor Swift, they will say she's absolutely brilliant, not only because
29:20she makes them a lot of money, but they will play her records, because people who like music, and
29:25know music, like Taylor Swift, end of story. So yeah, like I just think she's got such broad appeal,
29:32I completely agree with Lauren, her marketing is, I mean, fiendish, the amount of money I spent on
29:37Taylor Swift, and I don't really mind, she deserves it, she deserves all my money, what am I going to
29:42use it for, she should have all the money. But then I think the sense of a community as well, and just
29:49having something which is pure and good in the world, which is not going well right now, let's
29:54face it, and being able to kind of secrete yourself into like a warm kind of bundle of Taylor fans,
30:01and Taylor music, just feels really nice, like seven hours over a weekend, I was genuinely happy,
30:07and all the time, you know, but I think that's the most interesting thing as well, is like,
30:15with like the online phenomenon of like Swifties, and Taylor Swift, and like Taylor Nation, I'm
30:20someone who's not really on social media all that much these days, because I found it so just
30:25emotionally draining, but even like when you dip your toes into Taylor Swift, like sort of like
30:30fandom spaces, I'm sure there's a lot of warmth there, I'm sure there's a lot of people who are
30:34completely, you know, will die, die hard Swifties, who will, you know, be quite snippy to defend her,
30:39which I totally respect, you're allowed to do whatever you want, but I think that translation
30:44of that into the actual going to the ears tour was, that was why I was kind of nervous, I've seen
30:49some of the online behavior of Swifties before in the past, where you know, they've gone after
30:52somebody who said something negative about her, but like in person, not the experience at all, it was
30:58like almost the entire like opposite of it, everyone was just so warm, so welcoming, so friendly, everyone
31:03was just so happy to be there, and I think that someone that can inspire that type of, that sense
31:10of community, when you know for a fact that half the people that concert weren't even from Scotland,
31:14they weren't even from the UK, they came there specifically to see Taylor Swift, she's one like
31:18unifying force for a lot of people, and I think it's just really interesting, because
31:24it's so many different people and cultures and everything coming together, and I think she
31:28transcends a lot of boundaries for people, you know, like from me, who's grew up with her to Dave, who
31:32just loves and appreciates Taylor Swift for the music that she creates, and I think that that's
31:37just a really key part of her entire mythos, like marketing aside, like her private jets aside, like
31:43her extreme level of celebrity, you know, her, the overwhelming interest in everything that she does,
31:49all of that aside, like she wouldn't be where she was if she wasn't doing something right at the
31:53very fundamental level of, you know, making music, so I just, I can understand why people would say,
32:00you know, they don't like her, or that they don't understand why she's so popular,
32:03but, you know, for the fact that people who are saying that absolutely will know the lyrics to
32:07Taylor Swift's song, even if they don't know they know the lyrics to Taylor Swift's song, they'll
32:10have all those things in the back of their head, and, you know, they, it's just, she, they wouldn't
32:16have that if there wasn't something fundamentally just good at the base of what she was producing
32:23and putting out into the world. Because it's that thing that everyone knows Taylor Swift's song as well,
32:28so it is a bit like The Beatles, and people compare it to The Beatles, and I think maybe
32:31Michael Jackson, Madonna, The Beatles are the only people who can come close to her, because my mum
32:35knows a piece of the words to Shake It Off, she knows Shake It Off, she had no idea who actually
32:39sang it, she's 80, but she, yeah, she knows Shake It Off, so everyone knows it, it's almost like it's
32:45within our DNA now, Taylor Swift, and you think about the other stadium bands, if you go and see
32:49the Foo Fighters on Monday, they're playing Hamden, with the best one in the world, I quite like the
32:53Foo Fighters, a huge percentage of population could not name you one Foo Fighters song, because
32:59they're still slightly niched in that way, that they can still fill a stadium, but you could get
33:03through your life without hearing that many Foo Fighters songs, you couldn't do that with Taylor
33:07Swift, you can't avoid Taylor Swift, it's impossible to possibly avoid her, so she is, she's
33:13kind of ubiquitous, isn't she, in a way that very few bands have been, or ever will be again.
33:18I liked what you said earlier, in a different time that we were talking about Taylor, when you said,
33:24you know, it's impossible to not enjoy the Eros Tour if you went along, and if you don't like
33:28the Eros Tour when you went along, it feels like you're deliberately trying to not like it,
33:33and I think that a lot about people who, like not necessarily people who are like, oh yeah,
33:37she's good, like I wouldn't pay tickets to go see the Eros Tour, but you know, fine, but people who
33:42actively don't like her, I think will, that feels like you're deliberately trying, because her music
33:50is so different, and has sort of changed so much in the past 17 years or whatever, that I'd
33:56invite anyone to listen to all of her albums and not like any of them, I just, I don't think it's
34:02possible, I'd love to see if anyone tried it, but I mean, I mean, I wouldn't believe you. Yeah, I think it's
34:08totally valid that people can, I've seen some criticisms of her most recent album, where people
34:12are just talking about how much they dislike it, and they dislike it for xyz reason, and you know
34:16what, it's an opinion, you're allowed to have your own opinion, your opinion is valid to you, I don't
34:22have to agree with you, but I can accept that you think that way, but I think with like the Taylor
34:26Swift thing, the Eros Tour in particular, like if you, I'm the type of person that I will go along
34:30to any sort of show, if I get an invite, if I have a ticket, I'll just go, I don't really care if I
34:34know the band, if I don't know the band, like I like listening to new types of music, I like listening
34:39to all sorts of stuff, and as you say, Taylor Swift is one of the people, like from her debut, she's
34:44changed, like her music has changed so much creatively, and you can hear different influences,
34:49you can hear the different like genres that she dips her toes into, and you know, she has like
34:54almost every type of song under her belt now, and I think, but the sheer just production of the Eros
34:59Tour, like the journey, it's not just, it's like, I've seen people compare it to a stage production,
35:05and I would very much agree with that, it's like the emotional kind of journey that you go on
35:08throughout with it, like even if you don't know that maybe Taylor Swift songs, there's gonna be
35:11like at least two or three in there that you're like, oh this one, and you're gonna be like, yeah
35:15okay, I get that, but it's just, I don't understand how you could go and be in a crowd full of people
35:21who are having a great time, and you are not having, and you're like, you know, paying attention
35:26and listening, that you wouldn't, you know, have like a little bit of an okay, okay kind of given
35:31moment, and it's okay if you don't want to ever go back to like listening to her, you don't have to,
35:36like it's not, she's not, she's not actually a cult leader as much, some people like to say she's not,
35:41and it's just, it's just, I think it doesn't make you cool or edgy if you don't like Taylor Swift,
35:48you're allowed to have that opinion, but you're also not allowed to be, you know, rude about people
35:54who don't share that opinion, and you know, it's, I don't know, I just think that she's someone who
36:01inspires a lot of opinions, and a lot of people, and maybe not all of them positive, but I think
36:08that someone who maybe has never listened to her, and is like, well what is going on, there's lots
36:14of different songs specifically that you could listen to, and it might help you understand, but
36:18it's okay if it doesn't, if it's not for you, it's not for you, but just don't, just be a little bit
36:23kinder when you think about it, I guess. I agree, let people have their fun, if people like something,
36:29they love something, let them do it, and it feels like a good place to end, what a beautiful moral
36:34lesson for our time. Thank you very much Dave and Lauren, brilliant, we'll probably still be
36:43talking about this for the next few weeks, so sorry we won't record those conversations, but
36:48we hope everyone enjoyed at least this one. Bye. Cheers, bye.