24 Hours in Police Custody The Devils Chain
24 Hours in Police Custody The Devils Chain
Transcript
00:00It's either a trophy, or it's bravado. It's egotistical. It's a sense of, look, I've managed
00:11to take this from you, your prized possession, and now I'm wearing it around my neck.
00:15Read me a quick thing, we'll just look at Lucy's notes to see if there was any blood on this.
00:20They set out with an idea, to go and seek some retaliation or retribution,
00:28or threaten somebody, and then it escalates.
00:31A positive reaction from the chemicals that indicate the presence of blood.
00:37Bit of an update, boss. Yeah?
00:41The family said the victim had a big bulky gold chain on,
00:46and it's missing, and it had a Tasmanian devil on the end.
00:58It's crucial that we find the truth.
01:01Come here!
01:02Hands behind your back!
01:04Got to question everything, believe nobody.
01:09It's almost a game of chess, trying to slip up.
01:12This is your opportunity, just talk to me.
01:23Police emergency.
01:25It's stabbing my cousins outside the house.
01:27What town? Luton, Luton, Luton, Luton.
01:29He's on the floor, he's not breathing properly, can you just come, bruv?
01:32Right, we're sending officers now, OK? How bad have you hurt him?
01:36Bruv, he's not breathing, bruv, he's badly hurt, innit, bruv?
01:40Get a blanket, get a blanket.
01:51Where have you been stabbed, mate? Everywhere, bruv. Everywhere.
01:54We've not turned him over cos he's in a lot of pain.
01:56Yeah, we've got a medic here.
01:57Right, keep that pressure on there, mate.
01:59He's definitely got stab wounds to his back.
02:01He's having to have them checked his stomach, yeah.
02:04Did you hear her say that she heard some loud bangs?
02:07Oh, fuck!
02:08All right, mate, all right.
02:10Yeah, some bullets on the floor, guys.
02:11We're going to leave you in the picture at the moment.
02:13Yeah, I've got a witness here.
02:15There were multiple people running from you, Dre.
02:18They got into a Volvo.
02:20218, if I could just come in on that, there's a witness here
02:23who said that earlier on he saw a silver vehicle
02:26literally just where this has happened.
02:30Breathe, breathe, breathe.
02:32See, he's leaving from his right hand and the base of his back.
02:36Vast pools of blood.
02:38Three-inch laceration to the top of his head.
02:41And across his low base of his back, 15cm deep laceration.
02:46And I can see his spinal cord.
02:48I've been to stabbings before in looting.
02:51They stabbed to the spine.
02:54They stabbed to the legs.
02:55They injure to maim, to paralyse you.
02:59They don't do it to kill you, they do it to paralyse you.
03:03This gentleman wasn't stabbed, he was hacked.
03:06I think the attempt was to kill him.
03:08To kill? Yeah.
03:18A man's been found with knife and gunshot injuries in Luton.
03:22The victim was taken to hospital
03:23where he remains in a serious condition.
03:27A silver car was seen driving away
03:29from the vicinity of the incident
03:31and detectives are keen to trace the vehicle.
03:35The police believe the attack was targeted
03:38and are appealing for anyone with information
03:39about what happened to come forward.
03:42He didn't want to cooperate.
03:45I think Mum's really worried about doing or saying anything
03:50that her son's not going to be happy with.
03:54Detectives have tried to find out from the victim's family
03:57what lies behind the attack.
04:00She's in a difficult situation
04:01because she came across like she's a decent person
04:05and I believe that she's involved in criminality,
04:08but they're worried about the consequences.
04:10And it is tie in our hands.
04:15The level of violence used in the attack
04:18means the investigation is led by Bedfordshire's Major Crime Unit.
04:24Clearly, these people have lain in wait for our victim,
04:27for him to return home and then have attacked him on his driveway.
04:30This was not a chance encounter.
04:32It was absolutely premeditated.
04:36I'll go through that briefing so we're all up to speed
04:38on what the job's about initially.
04:40It's an attempt murder job from the early hours of Thursday morning.
04:44Malik is the victim.
04:46Our victim's got a bit of form.
04:48He's got drugs offences and I think he was potted for drug supply.
04:52He's been out of prison quite recently.
04:53His family have said he turned his life around,
04:56but they are keeping still in terms of telling us who's involved
04:58and what this is all about.
05:00So, in terms of his injuries, he has been shot three times.
05:04He's got numerous hack marks
05:06where he's been attacked with either a knife or a machete.
05:10It's clearly a concerted effort to kill him,
05:12given the extent of his injuries, and he's very lucky to be alive.
05:15Cops turn up and they find, sure enough, Malik's on the floor outside,
05:20there's a blood-soaked balaclava next to him,
05:22a pool of blood and a bullet case on the floor as well.
05:25Double forensics. Where are we at with all that?
05:27The balaclava's gone off and results are due urgently
05:31for gunshot residue recovery in the first instance,
05:34then internally for saliva and wear of DNA.
05:38This was a well-planned attack under the cover of darkness.
05:41To expect the public to have a list of witnesses
05:43who can give us a blow-by-blow account of what happened
05:46would be very unrealistic, really.
05:48Forensics are incredibly important in any investigation,
05:51but particularly in serious crimes such as this.
05:55To get a result, it's really, really crucial.
06:03I think someone ran across the road there.
06:05Detectives review dash-cam footage handed in by a motorist
06:09who passed the scene at the time of the attack.
06:13There's somebody there. Two. Two.
06:15Somebody there. There's another one there.
06:20That one. Four. Four, yeah.
06:22See that four-foot? Yeah.
06:23We've got the rear view as well to have a look at.
06:30That car on the side there might be the one that they get into.
06:32It's really difficult to see, though, isn't it?
06:34All it really does is tell you there's four people.
06:43Two miles from the crime scene, police find a burnt-out car
06:47matching the description of the Volvo
06:49seen driving away from the attack.
06:53I'm just going to see if any of the witnesses on the street
06:55know who owns that car or can point us in the right direction
06:58to who has access to it.
07:00Oh, here we go.
07:01Hiya, sorry, I'm from Brookshire Police.
07:03It's just in regards to a vehicle that was burnt out last night.
07:06Do you know anything about it?
07:11Hiya, sorry, nothing to worry about.
07:12It's just in regards to a vehicle that was burnt out last night.
07:15Anything about a silver Volvo at all on the street?
07:18No. OK, no worries.
07:19Can I just take the name that I spoke to you?
07:21No. OK, that's fine.
07:23I'm just going to go and have a look at it.
07:25I'm just going to go and have a look at it.
07:27No. OK, that's fine.
07:29We just want to know if anyone knows anyone of that vehicle.
07:42We need to know who the offenders were, really.
07:44Well, if you can't get her to do it today, then tomorrow.
07:48But, like, even just to first account today.
07:50No worries, are you coming back here, then, to write that up?
07:52I've seen a bit, then.
07:54Right, she's had second thoughts.
07:56Doesn't want to give us a statement.
07:58However, she's given us a bit of an account.
08:01Hears a noise, looks out, sees people attacking somebody outside.
08:07She can't really say much about them.
08:09It was at a distance at night.
08:11Might be Asian.
08:12Proximity to it all as well.
08:14She's probably had second thoughts. Yeah.
08:16Probably realised that it's a bit more than just beating someone up as well.
08:20Yeah, absolutely. If she knows that there's gunshots or...
08:22I'm sure the local community, everybody knows
08:25some version of events now.
08:27Yeah, absolutely.
08:29Quite a lot of information on there.
08:30Saying that the person responsible is a chap by the name of Samad,
08:34who's a Bengali male.
08:36What's this new live intelligence we just had, then?
08:38It's intel that's coming in.
08:40It's on the rolling log.
08:41That he's been mentioned on more than one occasion.
08:45OK, lovely, thank you.
08:47Boss just said he's looked at something and there's a marker on Samad
08:51on P&C saying involved in a shooting stab-in.
08:55There was loads of stuff about Stephen O'Dell.
08:57He's a really nasty piece of work.
09:00He was like a one-man wrecking crew.
09:02Yeah, there's P&C print for that O'Dell on here.
09:05He's got, like, 70 pages.
09:11Major crime intel.
09:15Intelligence is not evidence.
09:17It's an idea about who, for example, might be responsible.
09:22It doesn't have to be a name for a member of the public.
09:26It could be where the weapons are being stored.
09:28It could be a whole host of different intelligence feeds into the police,
09:31which we can look at and act upon
09:33and then decide where the investigation then takes us.
09:36Graham, do you want to talk about intel now?
09:38Because it kind of feeds into all our bits and pieces.
09:40We believe, so far, this is still a work in progress.
09:44It's graded one CP.
09:46Reliable.
09:47And that reads that four males are involved
09:49in the stabbing and shooting of Malik.
09:52We believe the offenders were a Bengali male called Samad Ali.
09:59Stephen O'Dell and a further Asian male.
10:01We've got further work on going with that at the moment.
10:05Finally, it's took...
10:06It's took till about six o'clock and we started winning.
10:09A little.
10:13Quite happy days.
10:22Can you just confirm for me, please,
10:24that all of your weapons have been drawn via the arms system?
10:27Yes, sir.
10:29Police execute a rolling series of arrests on four suspects
10:33linked to a brutal attempted murder.
10:37Firearms have only been authorised at the flat of Samad Ali.
10:44Papi.
10:46It's been authorised at the flat of Samad Ali.
10:50It's been authorised there as opposed to the others
10:52because there is specific intelligence around him
10:54being involved in this incident from the other night.
10:58Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
11:19Who are the police?
11:21Come to the door with nothing in your hands! Do it now!
11:28Open the door! I'm police!
11:36Show me your hands.
11:38Right, come out.
11:39One at a time, walk towards me, slowly.
11:41Keep walking.
11:42Keep walking.
11:47Come on, inside the address! Show yourself at the door now!
11:51Come to the door, show me your hands.
11:54Show me your hands.
11:56Don't move. Do not move.
12:00Walk towards me slowly, don't make any sudden movements.
12:03Keep coming, keep coming.
12:08Is there anyone else in that flat?
12:09No one else in the flat, sir.
12:10What's your name?
12:11Salad Ali.
12:12OK, Sam Ali, we just need to speak to you.
12:15This is a bit extreme, no?
12:19This is a bit extreme, no?
12:21Shall we get him in a lift and just get him out of the way?
12:23Yeah, yeah, we'll take him down.
12:39Door is open.
12:42Could we hand these over to you guys now?
12:45Right, Samid, I need to take you under arrest on suspicion of attempted murder.
12:50OK?
12:52Attempted murder?
12:53Yeah.
12:54And the reason for your arrest is a prompt and effective investigation.
12:56It's in relation to the attempted murder of Malik.
13:00I don't know who the fuck that is, innit?
13:02OK?
13:03I don't know who the fuck that is, innit?
13:07No, no, that's not going to happen, my friend.
13:08No?
13:09No, no, sorry.
13:10You just fucking arrested him on attempted murder.
13:12Come on.
13:13It's not a joke.
13:14No, it's not a joke.
13:17Yeah, you're good.
13:20And that's who we're looking for.
13:22He's quite distinctive.
13:23Yeah, he is.
13:25With Samad Ali under arrest, police move on the addresses of the three other suspects.
13:30Hello, we're from the police, we've got a warrant.
13:32He's not here at the moment.
13:33OK.
13:34Do you know where he is?
13:35He's gone out.
13:36OK.
13:41OK, are you all right?
13:42I'm a police officer.
13:43It's all good.
13:44I'm just coming up to make sure there's no one hiding out here.
13:48Let's assume he's not here, though.
13:55There's only us here, so we're going to have to do our search here.
13:58If other people become available from other addresses...
14:02Yeah.
14:03OK, cheers, pal.
14:04Bye.
14:07Right, looks like we're the only one who got somebody.
14:12Firearms?
14:13Ammunition?
14:14Mobile phones?
14:17Any dark-coloured shoe with a white sole?
14:19Balaclava or face coverings?
14:22Bobo Karki.
14:24Right, we'll just use common sense.
14:26If we find something, we're not sure, we'll just make a decision.
14:29Oh, brilliant.
14:31Oh, it's the defunct.
14:34It's out of the rump bag.
14:36Might be worth leaving that to Sid, too.
14:42We've got the chap that really wanted in custody.
14:46Let's just say we've found some stuff here that he'll have to answer for.
15:11Hi.
15:12Hi.
15:13What's your first name?
15:14Samad.
15:15And what's Samad doing here?
15:17What's the reason for arrest?
15:19So, he's been arrested for the attempted murder of Malik.
15:23Hold on, stop there.
15:24So, attempted murder, that's the reason why we're here?
15:26Mm-hm.
15:27So, the allegation is that he's been linked by some intelligence
15:31to the attempted murder of Malik?
15:33The intelligence?
15:35Yeah, so intelligence has linked you.
15:37So, someone's said something, basically, or something...
15:39Quite possibly, but we don't know that, and I certainly don't know that.
15:43Oh, yeah.
15:47Er, just let me have a look.
15:49What have you got?
15:52You have to take it off.
15:53I thought you were going to show me a little wimpy chain,
15:55not the one I've got.
15:56I had my jewellery on me, and, like, it was all right, cos I'm not...
15:59Pop it on there, Samad.
16:00I'll look after it for you.
16:01He won't be going anywhere.
16:05I'll count your money out.
16:06I'll count your money out.
16:37So, they've done the searches at the address
16:40where Samad lives with his girlfriend.
16:42Whilst there, they located a V5 vehicle registration document.
16:47That document relates to the vehicle
16:50that was found in Crossways where it was burnt out.
16:53Er, Volvo XC90.
16:56And there's our VIN number.
16:58Everyone talks about the registration number,
17:00the index number, as we call it,
17:02but the VIN number is the important one.
17:05The fact that she has it links him to that vehicle.
17:10Yeah.
17:11That vehicle was then subsequently found burnt out
17:13a short while after our offence.
17:15Oh, OK.
17:16Certainly causes us grave concern
17:18about the involvement in that vehicle and that offence.
17:21Yeah.
17:22I can't imagine for one minute he's going to want to talk to us.
17:25No, he's not going to.
17:26But we will give him every opportunity.
17:28PHONE RINGS
17:31You were arrested, Samad.
17:34Last night on suspicion of the attempted murder of Malik.
17:39You were cautioned.
17:41You do say you may be given in evidence.
17:44Do you understand?
17:47Do you understand?
17:48No.
17:51Samad, we're here to ask you,
17:53were you involved in the attempted murder of Malik?
17:58He's all right, he went no comment to everything.
18:00Even to the caution, he went no comment.
18:02Did he?
18:03Of course he did it.
18:04Yeah, he did.
18:05Definitely.
18:06Professional 27-year experience for you.
18:09But it's all a circumstance for the minute.
18:20The first camera we're looking at is on.
18:22Right.
18:23Looking at the road here.
18:25Police review the final pieces of CCTV
18:28from the night of the attack,
18:30looking for any evidence to link Samad Ali to the crime.
18:33Oh, and then, yeah, somebody runs straight across the road.
18:36And then have we got Ali going into the flat?
18:39Yes, we do.
18:45He just looks like he's coming home, doesn't he?
18:47Exactly.
18:48Not in any kind of major hurry or...
18:50No, no.
18:51The van's gone.
18:52The van's gone.
18:54The best shot of him is definitely in the lift.
18:59Well, he seems quite calm, doesn't he?
19:01Yeah.
19:02He doesn't look out of breath, as though he's just run from somewhere.
19:05Mm.
19:08Then you see him using his phone.
19:11Could almost pick up a passcode, I don't know.
19:13Well, do you know what? I was just thinking that.
19:17We haven't got that phone.
19:19You haven't?
19:20No.
19:24I was just saying to Yollie,
19:26I anticipate that he's going to be bailed out today
19:28cos we haven't got anything, really.
19:32Have we seized his clothes?
19:33Yes.
19:34Have we got them? Where are they?
19:36They're all down there.
19:37Mind if I have a look at them?
19:38Yeah, yeah.
19:40And also, he's got this jewellery.
19:42It's a big chain, that one.
19:44It's a fucking chain.
19:46Does it have something on the end?
19:48This is probably what you're thinking of,
19:50but it's not attached.
19:53The victim apparently had a Tasmanian devil.
19:57Really?
19:58Yes.
19:59Oh, my God.
20:00How fucking dumb would he be
20:02if he's got the Tasmanian devil on him?
20:05Hello, mate.
20:06He's missed us, he's seen you again.
20:10The family said that he had a big, bulky gold chain on the victim
20:14and it's missing,
20:16and they've called it a Tasmanian lizard.
20:19Well, this chap in custody
20:21has got a big, bulky gold chain on
20:23with a Tasmanian devil on the end.
20:26No.
20:28Yeah.
20:33It'd be better to get the family to give us a statement first
20:36to say that that is the right one,
20:38or a picture or whatever.
20:39It'd be nice to go,
20:40look, that's the victim wearing it.
20:42You don't know him.
20:44Look what you're wearing around your neck.
20:46Have you seen this photo?
20:48Brilliant.
20:49Here is our victim.
20:51We've said...
20:52Yes.
20:53Oh, God, I feel good.
20:56Hello, boss.
20:57Bit of an update.
20:58Heidi's tying in with the family
21:00to see if we can get them to describe it well enough
21:03so we can ID it,
21:05cos that's going to be quite telling.
21:09If we get a statement, we can say that we've obtained this photo,
21:12we recognise it to be the right one.
21:15We recognise it to be the victim,
21:17and blah-di-blah.
21:20I'm wondering whether we can go for a mot on.
21:24Detectives from the major crime unit
21:26are waiting for the CPS to agree
21:28that they have the evidence to charge Samad Ali
21:31with attempted murder.
21:33Hello, mate.
21:34He was booked in last night with this huge, great big chain on
21:37and in his pocket is this Taz pendant,
21:39which no-one had picked up on.
21:42Lo and behold, they are the outstanding things from the victim.
21:45Yeah, I recognise him.
21:47Yeah, I don't think he's a stranger to loot and custody.
21:50No. That way, please.
21:53Why would someone take a chain from someone
21:56they've just tried to kill?
21:58Within their criminal world, they want to assert themselves.
22:01They want everyone else to know what pain they've inflicted
22:04or what they're capable of doing.
22:06And left.
22:08They can't stay quiet. They have to brag about it.
22:12But that's generally what they're down for.
22:16When you bring emotions into it,
22:18you sense the clarity and thought go out the window.
22:20Mr Ali, how are you?
22:21I'm all right.
22:23The CPS have come back to us literally just now
22:26and they've recommended one charge.
22:29Charge?
22:30Of attempted murder.
22:32OK?
22:38Samad, if it was any other offence,
22:41then I wouldn't consider it, yes,
22:43but you can imagine the offence
22:45that you've been arrested for is attempted murder.
22:56Hello, Sergeant Nasser, London Police Station.
22:58I have Samad Ali with me.
23:00I'll transfer the call now.
23:02Hello?
23:04Yeah, babe, you all right?
23:07Nah, man, they charged me and it was attempted murder, innit?
23:11For fuck's sake, man, they're not even letting me go.
23:13They're not giving me bill or nothing, innit?
23:15For fuck's sake.
23:17If she said no...
23:18Apparently, they found a V5 in my handbag
23:21and they've got the chain.
23:24Maybe they did find the chain and the pendant or something.
23:28OK.
23:31OK.
23:38Eat shit now, don't you?
23:58The offence of...
23:59Attempted murder.
24:01Suspects will often,
24:03if they know they're wanted, hand themselves in.
24:06What option have they got?
24:08They either go on the run,
24:10which suggests a degree of guilt,
24:12so it's often a good ploy.
24:14You've been arrested for?
24:15Yeah.
24:16Yeah.
24:17You've been arrested for?
24:18Yeah.
24:19You've been arrested for?
24:20Yeah.
24:21You've been arrested for?
24:22Yeah.
24:23You've been arrested for?
24:24Yeah.
24:25You've been arrested for?
24:26Yeah.
24:27Yeah, so you know the process, then?
24:28Yeah.
24:29Yeah.
24:30Honestly, I was booked in.
24:31I'm in for it, so...
24:32My solicitor booked me in.
24:34Oh, did they?
24:35Yeah, yeah, that's right.
24:38One o'clock, Stephen O'Dell is coming in.
24:43And Stu and Claire, I think, are down for him.
24:48They'll do what they can to sanitise their involvement.
24:51They'll have probably sorted out an alibi
24:53and will present themselves all innocent.
24:57Steve.
24:58Hello, mate.
24:59How you doing? You all right?
25:00I'm fine.
25:01Before we go through,
25:02you ain't got anything in your pockets, gear or anything like that?
25:04Hold!
25:05No.
25:06You'd be surprised.
25:07Hi, Steve, I'm Claire.
25:08This is Claire.
25:09I'm Stuart.
25:10Nice to meet you.
25:11Thanks for coming down.
25:12Time now is ten past one,
25:13and I'm arresting you on suspicion
25:15of the attempted murder of Malik,
25:17which occurred in Luton at 1.55 in the morning
25:21on the 31st of the 10th this year.
25:24All right?
25:25You do not have to say anything,
25:26but it may harm your defence
25:27if you do not mention when questioned
25:28something you later rely on in court.
25:30Anything you do say may be given in evidence.
25:32That's fine.
25:46We're not stopping you from having any calls.
25:48Is that your missus?
25:49Yeah.
25:50All right, OK.
25:57I'm going to get myself found out soon.
26:04All good, yeah?
26:05With one suspect, Samad Ali, charged with attempted murder...
26:10Yeah, if you can fucking meet me at the corner, that'd be great, yeah.
26:12Thanks.
26:13..detectives interview the three other suspects
26:15in connection with the crime.
26:21OK, this interview is being video recorded
26:24in an interview room at Luton police station.
26:28What generally happens is people won't speak to us
26:30because they want to see what evidence that we have got against them.
26:33Can you tell me what your full name is, please?
26:36OK.
26:39We always expect people to not comment, generally speaking,
26:42and that's our starting point.
26:44Have you had enough time to consult with your solicitor?
26:46Yeah.
26:47Yeah, OK. Are you guys ready to crack on?
26:49They are advised to not comment
26:51because they don't have to prove their innocence.
26:53We have to prove their guilt.
26:55The purpose of this interview, Stephen,
26:57is to allow you the opportunity to give your side of the story
26:59and to establish the facts.
27:01You do not have to say anything.
27:02However, Stuart and I are still going to ask you questions.
27:08You've been arrested on suspicion of attempted murder to Malik.
27:11First of all, I'm going to ask you, do you actually know him?
27:14No comment.
27:16Tell me what you know about that incident.
27:18No comment.
27:20Have you heard of him?
27:22No comment.
27:24Is he a friend of yours or is he someone that's like an adversary to you?
27:28Is he, like, what you would call an enemy?
27:30No comment.
27:31So the man that was stabbed and shot is a man called Malik.
27:35Do you know anyone by the name of Malik?
27:42Malik rings a bell, but...
27:47..that's about it. I know a few Maliks.
27:50Have you ever had any issues with any of the Maliks?
27:53No. I ain't had issues for a while, to be fair.
27:57OK.
27:58So this is early hours in the morning that this has happened.
28:01Let's talk about maybe the Wednesday might help.
28:03So from the late afternoon through to the early hours of Thursday morning.
28:07And what I would like to know is what you can tell me about it.
28:14So from about six onwards, we had a Halloween party
28:17at my ex-missus' house.
28:19Family were there.
28:20They left around 12 midnight.
28:26And then that was it. I was off to bed with my ex-partner.
28:29After the party finished? Yeah.
28:31Did you ring anyone?
28:33I haven't got a phone.
28:35You haven't got a phone?
28:37No, I haven't got a phone, no.
28:39Right.
28:40Why don't you have a phone?
28:42I was robbed about a month ago.
28:44Have you reported that to the police? No.
28:47So if I mention the name Stephen Michael O'Dell,
28:50does that ring a bell at all?
28:52No comment.
28:54Is he a friend of yours?
28:56No comment.
28:57Did he play any part in this attack?
28:59No comment.
29:02Other persons that we are interested in...
29:09Do you know who he is? Yeah, I know him.
29:11How do you know him?
29:12Same high school.
29:14When did you last see him?
29:16Last see him...
29:19Oh, it would have been at a mate's wedding.
29:21Do you know if he's involved in the attempted murder of Alec?
29:24I would like to think not.
29:26OK.
29:27The other man that we're interested in is a man called...
29:32Do you know him? Yes, I know him.
29:33How do you know him?
29:34We've been a mate for...
29:37I'd say close to ten years.
29:40I'm going to ask you about Samad Ali and Stephen O'Dell.
29:44Do you know any of those guys?
29:46No comment.
29:47Do you know anyone by the name of Samad Ali?
29:51No.
29:52You sure?
29:53100%.
29:56Would you be linked to the attack in any way?
29:59No comment.
30:00Forensically? DNA?
30:03No comment. Blood?
30:05No comment.
30:06Do you have any reason to believe that anything linked to you
30:09would have been left at the scene?
30:11No comment.
30:12So you have DNA, fingerprint and things like that.
30:15So would we find any of your DNA at the scene?
30:19No, nothing whatsoever.
30:20OK.
30:21Did you drop anything?
30:22No.
30:23You sure?
30:24Yes.
30:25Anything you want to say about that?
30:27No.
30:28OK.
30:29So we have found your DNA at the scene?
30:32Impossible.
30:33So this is exhibit FMM9.
30:35This is where Malik was found fighting for his life.
30:39OK.
30:40And this balaclava has been found.
30:42And your DNA is on that balaclava, Steve?
30:45Impossible.
30:46How?
30:47The impossible is I only own one balaclava
30:51and that's my motorbike balaclava.
30:53That one is 100% not my balaclava.
30:56That's got your wearer DNA inside
30:59and that has got Malik's blood on the outside.
31:02Definitely not.
31:03That's not my balaclava.
31:04I don't give a shit what you lot see.
31:06You cannot say that's my balaclava.
31:08One million percent.
31:09Why is your DNA there then?
31:10My DNA is not in that.
31:12It is, mate.
31:13It's not.
31:14It's not.
31:15Steven, honestly, you can't just sit here and say,
31:17that's not my balaclava, that's not my DNA.
31:19You need to tell me how your DNA got in that.
31:22Listen.
31:23At this stage, do you want to have a good chat with me?
31:25Yes, 100% please.
31:27OK, that's fine.
31:28That's fine.
31:29So, we'll end the interview then at 15.25.
31:41He didn't like that, did he?
31:42No, because how he reacted was like, actually...
31:46Do you believe him?
31:49It wouldn't surprise me if someone's framed him.
31:52No.
31:53Do you not reckon?
31:54No.
31:55Do you...
31:56He's lying about the party.
31:58Yeah.
31:59I was so shocked he started talking.
32:04Hello, Claire.
32:06So, I've just come out of interview and they wanted a break.
32:09What, after you dropped the bombshell?
32:11Yeah.
32:12He literally just lost it.
32:13Like, completely changing his behaviour.
32:15And that is not my balaclava, that is not my DNA.
32:20The only balaclava I own is my motorcycle balaclava.
32:23Has he worn anyone else's?
32:25I didn't get as far as that, Mike.
32:26Cover all that off, because obviously...
32:28Yeah, of course, yeah.
32:29..he's going to come up with some sort of story.
32:31Yeah, absolutely, yeah.
32:32All right, cheers. Bye.
32:33Bye.
32:34He's lying about it all.
32:35Yeah, you can tell, he's really nervous, isn't he?
32:37But he thought he was going to come in here and give us that story
32:41and we were going to have nothing to debunk it.
32:44That DNA was just...
32:45Yeah, he's a liar, though.
32:47He ain't got a phone.
32:50No-one would text someone like this with those injuries for no reason.
32:55Please enlighten me in relation to why this has happened.
33:01No comment.
33:03Is it over drugs?
33:05No comment.
33:06Is it over money?
33:08No comment.
33:09Or has he just really pissed someone off?
33:12No comment.
33:14Is this down to Malik assaulting you...
33:18No comment. ..in prison?
33:20Is that what this is all about?
33:22No comment.
33:23If it is, do you want to tell us anything about that?
33:25No comment.
33:26Oh, here we are.
33:27Bullet and balaclava results.
33:30It is estimated that DNA profile
33:32is at least one billion times more likely to be his
33:37than to be another unknown person.
33:39Yeah, that's it, mate.
33:41He's stuffed.
33:44Do you want to write your notes up?
33:47Just thinking about the next interview, though.
33:50What possible defences?
33:52Mm.
33:53We always say if they talk, they probably didn't do it.
33:56Yeah.
33:57He's going to say no comment now, shoot, isn't he?
34:00That's good.
34:05OK, so we are talking about this balaclava.
34:08Inside, we have found your DNA.
34:11There has to be someone else's DNA on that.
34:13Unless someone's got your DNA that matches your DNA.
34:17Unless I've got a twin.
34:18Have you got a twin?
34:19I know that, I know that.
34:20I'm not trying to get, like, rude or nothing,
34:22I'm just trying to say... No, no, I understand.
34:24I was not at that scene.
34:26That balaclava has to have someone else's DNA on that.
34:31I did not have that balaclava on.
34:34And just...
34:39Who had that balaclava on?
34:40This is what I'm trying to say, right?
34:42It was not me.
34:44Hands down, it was not me.
34:46If that was me, right,
34:48I'm there attacking someone.
34:49Why would I take my balaclava off?
34:51But in the melee, and we don't know what Malik was doing,
34:54cos we get to speak with him,
34:56but he might have been fighting with his attackers
34:58and it might have come off in the struggle.
35:00Yeah, I understand that.
35:01So, what I'm saying is,
35:02I know if I go to a fucking shooting,
35:05a stabbing or whatever else,
35:08that's happened,
35:10and I leave something like that,
35:14I'm fucked.
35:15So, let's go backwards.
35:16When was the last time you wore a black balaclava
35:21that wasn't for motorbike racing?
35:25We're talking about an attempted murder here.
35:27So, if you're talking about you've worn it
35:30for any other criminality or anything like that,
35:33OK, now's not the time to be coy about it,
35:37because given a slightly different version of events,
35:42your DNA could be at a murder scene.
35:44Without trying to think that, I'm not taking it serious.
35:47You need to tell us how your DNA got in there,
35:49who had that balaclava,
35:50who wore it at the scene,
35:52who dropped it.
35:53I don't know.
35:54Have you committed a crime wearing a balaclava
35:57with any of the people that we suggest are involved?
36:00I don't know the other people you're saying.
36:02I haven't committed a crime...
36:03Your mates?
36:04Yeah, two, no.
36:05With them, no?
36:06100% no.
36:07Right.
36:08Sam...
36:09Samad Ali, that's the other chap.
36:13He could be... I don't know.
36:15What do you mean, he could be?
36:16He could be like a friend of a friend.
36:18He could have been around me.
36:19I don't know, but this is not mine.
36:21I do not own this balaclava.
36:22Has anyone got any issues with you?
36:24No, I have no issues with anyone.
36:26Any duress?
36:27No.
36:28I'm not a fucking angel.
36:29I've been...
36:30You know my records.
36:31I've been fucking an idiot back in the past,
36:33whatever else.
36:34And I've done shit.
36:36I don't live that lifestyle no more.
36:38I have kids I look after.
36:40This is not my balaclava.
36:42It's Steven.
36:43OK, it might not be your balaclava...
36:45Can I have...
36:46..but it's your DNA.
36:49That's fine.
36:50OK, we'll just pause the interview one minute.
36:52OK, let's go to another room.
36:53We'll leave the tapes running, so don't say anything.
36:55Come out.
36:56Yeah, there he is.
36:57You got one?
36:58Yeah, if you go in that one.
37:00All right, no worries, no worries.
37:02I can't just say it's not mine.
37:04No, cos he's holding something back.
37:06Yeah, cos it's a one-in-a-million chance
37:09of it being a twin.
37:10He knows that.
37:12But he needs to talk to us.
37:15Cos if he didn't do it, I don't want to remind him.
37:17He didn't do it.
37:18You should not say that.
37:19I don't want to charge you if you haven't done it.
37:21But it's not looking good.
37:36You OK?
37:37Yeah, it's all good.
37:38Yeah.
37:41OK.
37:42Can I just remind you, Steve,
37:44the interview's still under police caution.
37:46So we were just talking about the statistics
37:49and your DNA being on this balaclava.
37:51You lot are the professionals,
37:53and you lot will get to the bottom of who had that balaclava on.
37:56I know that for a fact.
37:58Do you know who had it on?
38:00No. This is the thing, I do not know.
38:02If you knew who had it on, would you tell me?
38:04Listen, let me tell you something, right?
38:06It's not about being a grass or whatever else,
38:09I don't give a shit.
38:10It's about protecting them kids.
38:12It's my family, right?
38:13Yeah.
38:14My kids.
38:15This is a life sentence.
38:18Mm-hm.
38:19Do you not understand that?
38:20Yeah.
38:21I am not risking my life for my kids.
38:25My kids are my everything.
38:27So if you knew who'd done this, you would tell us?
38:29Listen, if I knew, then, I don't know,
38:32I would have to if I knew.
38:34Do you understand what I'm saying?
38:35Yeah.
38:36So when would you have worn a balaclava like that?
38:40I ride my motorbike on the road.
38:42Well, you shouldn't be.
38:43It's not a motorbike.
38:44OK, all right, fine.
38:45We're not here to talk about that.
38:46Traffic offences, attempted murder.
38:48Let's...
38:49Yeah, I know what you're saying.
38:50I know what you're saying.
38:51All right.
38:52So it's possible you have worn a balaclava like that...
38:55Yes.
38:56..all the time to avoid the police, right?
38:58I have a lot of people like that.
39:00Have you given one of your old balaclavas...
39:04Where? Long gone where?
39:19So when was the last time you lent one to someone?
39:22I don't know.
39:24And who did you lend it to?
39:26Um...
39:32Because this is probably the most important question
39:35you've been asked in this interview.
39:37And your solicitor will tell you this.
39:39No, no, no.
39:40If that is a balaclava that you've worn
39:43and you have lent to someone
39:45and then it's turned up at an attempted murder scene...
39:48I don't want to say it in here,
39:49and then you go nicking for this massive thing.
39:52Who did you give it to?
39:54Mate, you need to tell us who you gave it to.
39:58Cos you're sitting here, arrested for attempted murder.
40:01You might be charged. I know this, I know this.
40:03So the guy who may have been wearing this is walking free.
40:06Come on, Steve, do the right thing.
40:08You're not a grass. You've got your kids to think about.
40:11Describe him to us.
40:13White, black, Asian.
40:15Oh, no, he's, er... I think he's Pakistani.
40:17OK.
40:18Age?
40:2022, maybe.
40:22OK.
40:23Yeah, I don't know.
40:24Slim face.
40:26Slim? Erm, not slim.
40:29Just think of him, picture him and describe him to us.
40:34I can't remember if he's got facial hair or not.
40:36Erm...
40:38And where's he from?
40:43Don't know.
40:44Is there anything else you can tell us about him?
40:46That's all I know, that's all. I don't know his name.
40:51OK.
40:55Anything else?
40:58OK.
41:00All right, then.
41:01Yeah.
41:02That's not mine.
41:03OK, thank you for talking to us, Steve.
41:05We'll end the interview now.
41:06PHONE RINGS
41:14Hello.
41:15These are mine, I'm going to leave them.
41:17He was adamant, mate.
41:19He was adamant, mate.
41:20OK.
41:21There was a lot of things in there that you kind of thought
41:24you're lying, but I couldn't pinpoint what he was lying about.
41:29Yeah.
41:30There's something he's not telling us, but we've got all the evidence.
41:34And I don't think the reason he's given us for his DNA being on that
41:37balaclava at the scene is enough.
41:39The likelihood is that I don't think that's going to be enough
41:43to negate what he's saying.
41:46Whether he was lying because he knows what's happened,
41:49whether he's lying because he was there and someone else had the balaclava.
41:52And only right at the end did he say,
41:54well, I did have a balaclava like that, but I lent it to a bloke.
41:57Well, if that's what he says...
42:01He's involved in this somehow.
42:03Enough to get his hands dirty.
42:05Right, OK.
42:08It's now come out that he might have lent some bloke a balaclava.
42:11He's tried to say...
42:12If I was going to do it,
42:13I wouldn't be stupid enough to leave my balaclava there.
42:16So he's basically saying, because he's a good criminal,
42:20he's basically saying that he wouldn't get caught out.
42:23But how many times do you come out of interviews sometimes
42:26and think people are really, really genuine and you think, oh, yeah.
42:29He's saying this.
42:30Yeah, exactly.
42:31But bearing in mind the swabs are from the mouth and the nose,
42:34and if somebody else has had that on...
42:36You'd expect it in the profile, wouldn't you?
42:38No other profile.
42:39Yeah, we've got no other profile in that.
42:46Without enough evidence to link two of the suspects
42:49to the attempted murder,
42:51police have no choice but to release them on bail.
42:55So, lighter, coat, belt and a hundred quid in cash.
42:58Sound right?
42:59So the bail conditions you've got
43:01is not to contact directly and regularly
43:03Stephen Michael O'Dell and Samad Ali.
43:16Right then.
43:18Yeah, from O'Dell's data point of view,
43:20coming up to the incident, really, it's being used.
43:23Detectives have managed to link Stephen O'Dell to a phone
43:26registered to his former girlfriend's mother.
43:29By 2.57, he's in the area where the car was then later torched,
43:33and then he stops using his phone.
43:35What it does, it destroys his alibi,
43:37because he and his girlfriend are saying that they were having a party
43:41and he was there all night.
43:43His phone clearly does move away.
43:45He's not at a party.
43:47O'Dell says that he doesn't know Ali,
43:49but clearly he does know Ali,
43:51because less than 15 minutes after the incident,
43:54at 1.55, at 2.11, Ali is calling O'Dell
43:58and calls him for 35 seconds.
44:00That call in itself shows that they are associates,
44:03so O'Dell does know Ali.
44:05Yeah.
44:09The victims come back in a taxi
44:11and they've been waiting for him.
44:14Yes, that's correct.
44:16There is obviously no other DNA on the balaclava apart from his.
44:23I guess he thought that if he came out of the plausible account
44:26at the start of it, then perhaps we would believe him.
44:30But there'll be something somewhere
44:32which they absolutely will not have thought about
44:35or made allowances for.
44:37What's the saying?
44:39They've got to be lucky all the time.
44:41We've only got to be lucky once.
44:43All right, that's brilliant. Thanks ever so much.
44:45All right, then. Thanks for your time.
44:47Thank you. Bye-bye.
44:50Mr O'Dell's going to be charged.
44:52Oh, good.
44:53We're looking for a remand as well.
44:55I'd have thought so.
44:57Use the wrong gun.
45:01Right, you're charged with the offence...
45:04Attempted to murder.
45:06No reply, no?
45:36You can find support for any of the issues raised in this programme
45:39at channel4.com slash support.
45:42And a very different day on Monday
45:45when 24 hours are being spent in Queen's Medical Centre,
45:48Nottingham's A&E.
45:50The red phone rings in a new series at nine.
46:06Subtitling by SUBS Hamburg