War Thunder - Proposed Japanese Tank Tech Tree - Medium tanks (Part 1) - video Dailymotion

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In this next episode of the proposed Japanese tank tech tree, we look at the first 2 tiers of the Japanese medium tanks  Japanese tanks in this episode: Type 1 Chi-He (Added in Update 1.65 "Way of the Samurai") Type 2 Ho-I (Added in Update 1.65 "Way of the Samurai") Type 89 I-Go (Added in Update 1.65 "Way of the Samurai") Type 97 Chi-Ha (Added in Update 1.65 "Way of the Samurai") Type 97 Shinhoto Chi-Ha (Added in Update 1.65 "Way of the Samurai")  Proposed Japanese Tank Tech Tree Japanese Light Tanks: https://youtu.be/a4La6cIj3U8 Japanese Medium Tanks (Part 1): https://youtu.be/6ZT_JiN0lFY Japanese Medium Tanks (Part 2): https://youtu.be/EQn_A3aWh8I Japanese Heavy Tanks: https://youtu.be/QhMx05tIZC4 Japanese Amphibious Tanks: https://youtu.be/4_paUh-5U30 Japanese Tank Destroyers & Assault Guns: https://youtu.be/w0Xxw9F-xyk Japanese SPAA: https://youtu.be/Oo0tpdRt9_k Japanese Premium Tanks: https://youtu.be/OxPzgNZo1wI  Link to War Thunder Japanese ground forces forum: http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/forum/191-japan/  Japan ground forces forum tech tree:  http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/200268-mai-waffentrager-japanese-ground-forces-tech-tree/  Information and picture citations/sources: WWII: The Directory of Weapons Weapons of World War II New Vanguard. Japanese tanks: 1939-45 http://www3.plala.or.jp/takihome/ http://www.weaponsofwwii.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3130 http://www.ww2technik.de/sites/panzer/bewaffnung%20main.htm#kanone http://forum.wotlabs.net/index.php?/topic/287-penetration-data-and-expectation-of-tank-guns-used-in-service-or-tested/ http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/51183-japanese-tank-tree-guns-discussion/page__st__300#topmost http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/190952-japanese-tank-guns-and-statistics/#entry3656677   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_89_I-Go  http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File%3AType_89_Japanese_tank.jpg By Japan newspaper Asahi Shimbun 朝日新聞 [Public domain], via Wikimedia Commons This photographic image was published before December 31st 1956, or photographed before 1946, under the jurisdiction of the Government of Japan. Thus this photographic image is considered to be public domain according to article 23 of old copyright law of Japan (English translation) and article 2 of supplemental provision of copyright law of Japan.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_97_Chi-Ha  http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_97_Chi-Ha  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_2_Ho-I  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_97_ShinHoTo_Chi-Ha  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_1_Chi-He  http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File%3AChi-Nu_depot.jpg By US soldier [Public domain], via Wikimedia Commons One of the tank depots, created in Japan after the end of WWII, with Type 3 Chi-Nu and Type 97 Shinhoto Chi-Ha on the foreground, Type 1 Chi-He, Type 97 Chi-Ha, Type III Ho-Ni III and other unidentified vehicles at background  http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Isshikityusensya.jpg This photographic image was

Transcript

00:00Hello everybody and welcome back to another episode of my proposed future Japanese tank tech tree series

00:06I've actually recorded the episode itself

00:08I'm just doing the intro and conclusions and I've sort of decided I'll do this in two parts. In this part

00:13I'll do the tier 1 to tier 2, next episode tier 3 to tier 5

00:19Now this episode was relatively easy to do because most of my books dealt with

00:23these sorts of tanks and the guns they used but

00:27The next episode is quite a bit harder because none of my books had the guns listed all the sources I used

00:33Disagreed about what penetration characteristics they had

00:36Even in this episode of the 47 millimeter gun

00:39It was quite confusing one some sources saying 40 millimeter penetration at 500 meters other saying 65

00:47So, you know just to let you know, there may be some discrepancies and I do have to sort of

00:52Guess do a lot of guesswork. I'm involved with some of the guns, unfortunately now before I forget

00:58I forgot to mention this in the last episode. There is actually a part of the War Thunder forum dedicated to Japanese tanks

01:05You know, I'll leave a link to that the people there seem very knowledgeable about Japanese tanks

01:10They've actually produced their own Japanese tank tech tree and if you were to look at that

01:15You know, you could probably learn quite a bit about Japanese tanks from there

01:18So, you know if you want to find in more information about Japanese tanks, that's a good place to look

01:24But without further ado, let's get straight into the episode

01:27Now the first tank we're looking at is the type 89 I go now. This was actually quite an early tank

01:33It was the first ones were built in some like

01:351931 and there was two basic variants. There was the a variant and the B variant now

01:42Really the only difference is is that one had a petrol engine and one had a diesel engine

01:47now the diesel engine one was quite a bit faster some like 16 miles an hour while the

01:53petrol engine one could only manage barely 10 miles an hour or slightly less than that and

01:58Looking at the production figures in one of my books

02:01It does seem the type B the diesel engine version was the most produced one 291 compared to the A's

02:08113

02:12Now the main role of the type 89 was to support the infantry

02:16So it didn't particularly have a good gun for dealing with enemy tanks at a low velocity

02:2157 millimeter type 90 cannon

02:23Now I've had a look online and in my books and from what I can tell this had pretty bad penetration

02:31Characteristics with armor piercing something like 20 millimeters at 500 meters, which is pretty bad

02:37But apparently there was a heat

02:40Round produced for it or I don't know if it was quite widespread or if it was just developed and not put into production

02:46But it was a heat round for it

02:49Which could penetrate 55 millimeters of armor, so it could potentially do quite well for its

02:55You know if it's a low battle rating, it would have to be a low battle rating because it's a very early tank

03:02It also had a secondary armament to 6.5 millimeter machine guns and the armor

03:08Remember it was produced in

03:101931 is 9 to 17 millimeters of armor, which is pretty good

03:15You know it can I mean maybe not against enemy tanks, but it could block most small arms fire

03:19And you know when it was produced it wasn't really expected to be any tanks

03:24Of course by 1940 they were quite obsolete by which point most of them were retired it retired and

03:31You know withdrawn from service, but a few did end up in combat and from what I understand didn't fare particularly well

03:38Lastly it had four crew which is a pretty big improvement on what the light tanks had at the same time

03:44It had a commander who doubled as a gunner a loader a driver and a bow machine gunner

03:49So unlike with some of the light tanks you won't you know losing one crew one meant

03:54You know losing one crew member won't kill your tank

03:57So already it's got one advantage over the light tanks that Japan fielded or that would be in War Thunder

04:05Now where would it actually go on the tech tree in War Thunder?

04:09Looking at the tech tree itself now. We've got the Panzer IV which also has a heat round of about 80 millimeters

04:18Assuming the type 89 gets its heat round and gets 55 millimeters penetration that would allow it to penetrate practically anything

04:26the Panzer IV C is a 1.3 and again 80 millimeters penetration, so

04:33Probably it could I'd probably say 1.3 at the lowest because obviously it's got quite a high penetrating gun, but

04:41No, not much higher than that

04:44You know, maybe

04:461.7 is the very highest, you know

04:49Very very highest. I mean because it has got pretty bad armor

04:53suppose there's a bit of a glass cannon if it gets the heat rounds, but

04:57You know, I assume you'd get both variants, I think both variants would be good to have the Panzer II

05:03that's a reserve tank or you've got one as a reserve and one as a

05:08Not reserve although they're the same battle rating. So maybe something similar to that but at 1.3

05:14You know, I think that would be pretty good for the tank and it would make a very good starting point for the Japanese

05:19medium tanks

05:21Now the next tank on our list is the type 97 Chihar medium tank

05:25Now

05:26Starting off with armament is apparently very similar to the type 89 a 57 millimeter low-velocity gun

05:33but this is a type 97 instead of a type 90 as far as I can tell the

05:38The only difference really is is that it has a ever so slight increase in barrel length

05:4418 length 18.5 rather than 18.4

05:48Other than that, it seems to be very similar

05:50Penetration 20 millimeters at 500 meters with armor piercing with high explosive anti-tank heat. It has a

05:5755 so pretty similar gun

06:00So we've established that

06:02Now armor one of my books lists it as 6. I'm sorry 8 to 25 millimeters my other book

06:09Japanese tanks 1939 to 45 by Steven J. Saloga

06:14Gives a slightly more in-depth look at the armor

06:17The thickest part the thickest armor on the tank was a gun mantlet at 33 millimeters and the turret sides at 26 millimeters

06:25the remaining panels range from 20 millimeters on the whole superstructure to 12 millimeter on upper surfaces and

06:31was entirely riveted so

06:34Not particularly great armor. So it's kind of similar to the Panzer

06:40Fours and Panzer threes. I think they had like

06:4330 millimeter side armor. This is 26 millimeter side armor and the turrets at least

06:50Maybe a bit under unarmored in other places, but it should do you know, it's reasonably well protected compared to the light tanks

06:57Let's put it that way

06:59Now for crew my book has it listed as having four crew

07:03So but it doesn't say exactly who the crew are. So I'm going to guess light with the type 89

07:09driver bow machine gunner

07:11Loader and then commander slash gunner

07:14So again for crewman which you know makes your tank harder to kill when you know more

07:20Replacements if one of them does get one of you crewman gets knocked out. So overall this does seem like a pretty good tank

07:27Now, where would I put it battle rating wise?

07:30It's got better armor. Like I said, something like 26 millimeters on the turret sides

07:35and the same penetration as the

07:38Type 89 55 millimeters

07:41Now the Panzer 4 F1 is a 2.3, but that seems a little too high. Maybe Panzer E

07:49Panzer E's battle rating is about 2. I think that's probably the Chihar should probably be there about you know about there at the highest

07:57Really no higher than that. I think they both have roughly the same muzzle velocity even Panzer fours is 450

08:05The the Chihar is 350 so it's got lower muzzle velocity

08:11But it's maybe 1.7 2.0 somewhere around there. No higher than tier 1 though

08:18And again, it will make a pretty good Japanese tank

08:21You know if you just have to play them a bit like the Panzer fours that are already in game

08:27Now before we move on to the next tank, I've actually got some pictures of the type 97 in War Thunder already

08:32I should explain basically. They're the ground attack targets arcade and realistic battles

08:38I'm so far on desert coast and port. You've got the time 97 of some of the ground targets

08:44You can see it's reasonably well modeled in the next picture

08:48Here is you can see the turrets a bit asymmetrical because of that rear machine gun

08:53This isn't an indication of how well done the tanks are obviously

08:57This is just an external model, but I thought it'd be interesting to show to you

09:01Anyway, it shows that you know Gaijin have at least put some time into doing the external models at least

09:07So they've obviously researched it a little bit. You know, I just thought I'd show you the

09:12pictures now the next tank on the list is the type 2 Hoei or Hoei and I was really conflicted on where to put this

09:19In the tech tree. I kind of swayed more towards it being in the tank destroyer line ahead of the type 1 Hoei or Hoei

09:27But reading up on it. It does seem pretty clear. It was a

09:31Similar to the Panzer IV and I actually had it in the tank destroyer line until this episode

09:36And I sort of as I was doing the Panzer the type 97s and saying now they were kind of similar to the Panzer IVs

09:43In a way, you know, I did sort of sway me towards it probably being a better fit in the medium tank line

09:49So the stats for it had a 75 millimeter type 99 gun

09:54Now there was virtually no information on this gun

09:57I didn't have anything in any of my books on it and even looking online found virtually nothing in the end

10:02I found one or two forum posts which were citing Japanese books and they mentioned with a type 2 high explosive anti-tank shell

10:09It could do a hundred millimeters of penetration

10:11Which sounds reasonable, you know, basically the same as the Panzer IV

10:15So it seems like it would be quite a good powerful little tank, you know again similar to the Panzer IV

10:23Armor it had about if I can find it about 50 to 12 millimeters of armor, so

10:29Reasonably well protected compared to the type 97 Chihar which remember only had about 33 millimeters

10:35Maximum thickness and that was around the gun mantlet. It was also reasonably fast about 27 miles per hour

10:42Crew from what I can understand it had five crew, but I have no idea what they actually did

10:47I assume it's something like driver bow machine gunner because it had a secondary armament of 7.7

10:54type 97 millimeter machine gun

10:57So driver bow machine gunner gunner commander loader something like that. I suppose that's that would make sense

11:04That's the only way I can possibly

11:06You know, I can't think who else could be there as a crewman maybe a radio operator or something

11:10But I think it would be a good fit between the type 97 Chihar and the Shin-Hoto Chihar the upgraded type 97

11:19Again, it could possibly go in the tank destroyer line, but it would probably have to go before the type 1 Honey

11:26And I'll talk about more of that that more in the tank destroyer episode

11:30But um, you know, it'd be out of chronological order

11:32I think and you know, I think it does reasonably well in the medium tank line that I've had chance to look at it better

11:38Now the next tank on our list is the type 97 Shin-Hoto Chihar

11:42Basically, it's a type 97 but with a high-velocity 47 millimeter gun

11:48So lower caliber much higher muzzle velocity now as talked about at the beginning of the video

11:54There are conflicting stats for the 47 millimeter gun

11:58with apparently a

12:00100 meters it could do between 55 and 70 obviously a big jump

12:05big difference

12:07or at 500 between 500 meters between 45 and 65 or a

12:12thousand between 35 or between 30 and 50

12:17Obviously this makes giving it a better rating kind of hard because you know

12:21You it's a bit hard to tell which vehicles it can penetrate and not

12:25The post-war testing kind of seems like the most reasonable ones

12:3070 meters at 100 meters and 500 and 50 at 500

12:34Which would mean it could reasonably penetrate the rears and sides of a Sherman

12:40So I think probably a battle rating about 3. I wouldn't put it too high. I mean

12:47Because obviously only has a 47 millimeter gun. So 3 is the maximum battle rating

12:51I'd put it it could probably go quite a bit lower than that if it really if needed

12:56But 3 is really the highest it shouldn't be going against Shermans too regularly

13:01Though it should be it would be able to hold its own reasonably well against them

13:05The arm of the Shinoto as far as I could tell was actually the same more or less

13:10I've can't see any references to it being changed or anything

13:15Speed still seems to be the same as if the type 97 Chihara about 24 miles an hour

13:21So it should be a reasonably good tank and you know will shows how Japan is or was

13:28Advancing its tanks, and I think it would be very good to have it in War Thunder

13:32In case you're wondering I believe the second of these tanks the one at the back is the type 97

13:38Shinoto and the first first one is actually the tank we're looking at next the type 1 Chaihei

13:44Which is also incidentally the first of the modern Japanese tanks that didn't really see any combat in World War 2

13:52Unfortunately this also means it and other modern Japanese tanks aren't particularly covered in my books apart from the one by Sologa that I

13:59ordered in specially

14:00But basically the type 1 Chaihei it was an attempt to make the type 97 Shinoto or type 97 in general more

14:09Modern you know able to stand up in combat

14:12So one of the major things they did was improve the frontal armor thickened it to 50 millimeters

14:16And they used welding rather than riveting

14:20They also gave it a more powerful engine so it could actually take the additional armor with the improved engine

14:27It can actually make 27 miles per hour rather than 24, so it's actually got faster even though. It's got extra armor

14:34The main problem was it was still armed with that 47 millimeter gun

14:39So again, it's gonna have a lot of trouble dealing with enemy tanks and while the armor is much improved

14:44It would probably be a higher battle rate in the type 97 so bigger guns, and it'll be going against

14:50Which will negate basically any advantages gained?

14:53Which is why I think?

14:553.3 is the highest battle rating this can go it can't go any higher

14:59I'm otherwise it's gonna be facing lots and lots and lots of Sherman's

15:04I know this kind of seems unfair to be giving Japan all the lower battle ratings, but

15:09With most of these tanks if you put them too high. They're just gonna get slaughtered so

15:143.3 is really the highest I would put it higher than the type 97

15:17Low enough to you know not be completely slaughtered and stand somewhat a chance at defeating enemies

15:24So that's it for today's episode

15:27Like I said, I'm doing this in two parts. This is actually the easy bit to do

15:31It's the next episode where I really struggled

15:34Trying to find accurate information on the various Japanese gun penetration characteristics

15:40But I hope you enjoyed the episode anyway

15:44Leave a like if you did like the episode subscribe if you'd like these sorts of videos

15:48Leave feedback. I can always do with more feedback. Maybe you've

15:52Seen tanks that you think should be included on here

15:54Maybe you think I've got information wrong or just want to give general feedback, but anyway

15:59I hope you enjoyed the episode and I'll see you next time

War Thunder - Proposed Japanese Tank Tech Tree - Medium tanks (Part 1)

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