In 2020-21 after the death of Dalit leader Ram Vilas Paswan, followed by the division in Lok Janashakti Party (LJP), people started writing political obituaries of Chirag Paswan. But within three years, the wheels took a different turn. He is now not only a Union Minister with 5 MPs; he has already left his mark in Indian politics through his outspoken nature and political convictions. In a conversation with Outlook’s Editor Chinki Sinha and Abhik Bhattacharya, he shares his views on different things ranging from the creamy layer debate to the upcoming Bihar assembly elections.
Camera: Suresh K Pandey and Vikram Sharma
Editor: Sudhanshu Pandey
#ChiragPaswan #LJP #Politics #Interview
Camera: Suresh K Pandey and Vikram Sharma
Editor: Sudhanshu Pandey
#ChiragPaswan #LJP #Politics #Interview
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00:00You've tried to keep the family together because you know it's it's very difficult right I mean
00:03This part I think I did a little better than papa
00:08I tried in movies as I said I repeat I was a disaster
00:12I still remember the day one when I put this issue in front of him for the first time
00:16he got very angry
00:19and and and he told me very clearly that don't say it again that you want to go with BJP
00:25It was that harsh on me
00:30Hi welcome to Outlook Talks we are with Mr. Chirag Paswan who's also from my home state
00:36and Abhik from Outlook and the issue for the coming issue which is on caste census we wanted
00:44to talk to him and about also his vision and his life and all you know the politics actually
00:51and what he's looking for in Bihar so Chirag ji if you can talk a little bit about you know your
00:57vision and your politics how is it different from your father
01:01or what did you add to it because it's quite surprising that
01:04you have come up you know to this point
01:10you've got a ministry and you know it seems like people of Bihar are loving you so
01:17I would want to believe that people of Bihar loves me and yes
01:22being a Bihari was one of the most important reason that I'm in politics
01:28besides the general perception of me being a nepo kid but honestly I mean I tried different
01:35careers before coming into politics but that was when I actually realized that I need to go back
01:41to my state I need to get into politics you can't be standing on the fence and just criticizing
01:50then be the part of the system and try to bring in that change that you want to see
01:55and that's when I decided that I will go back to my state I'll go back to Bihar and and I'll
02:02start working for the people of my state because living in Delhi living in Mumbai I actually see
02:07the condition that my people they live in different cities you know when they go out
02:12there for either for work or for education or whatever and that's when I decided and I
02:21I told papa that I want to come into politics and he was more than happy and so yes
02:33that is my vision
02:44I can
02:51do
02:59ask me any problem and I'll give you a solution to that
03:11so
03:21representations
03:23except one case
03:29social justice politics
03:51foreign
04:05foreign
04:21foreign
04:41untouchability untouchability is the only criteria which
04:50foreign
04:52tribal
04:54character
04:56scheduled tribe
04:58scheduled caste
05:00scheduled caste
05:02untouchability
05:04untouchability
05:08untachability
05:10education
05:12economical backward
05:14untouchability
05:16untouchability
05:18creamy layer
05:20That is the reason.
05:22Creamy layer cannot be formed because
05:24discrimination still exists on the basis of it.
05:26Discrimination still exists.
05:28We have examples,
05:30recent examples,
05:32where an IPS officer has to ask for security
05:34IPS officer has to ask for security
05:36to remove his wedding procession.
05:38Even today we get examples that Dalit youth
05:40are stopped from riding a horse, Dalit family
05:42are stopped from entering the temple.
05:44People who are in the position of Chief Minister
05:46when they go to the temple,
05:48I will not name names, but in our country
05:50there are 2-3 such names that the temple
05:52has to be washed with Ganga water.
05:54Rajendra Prashad's example.
05:56In such a situation, what can be a bigger
05:58creamy layer than this? You have become
06:00Chief Minister, you have become an IPS officer.
06:02What can be a bigger creamy layer than this?
06:04But still, if there is discrimination
06:06with you, that is why
06:08the formation of a creamy layer
06:10can never come into being
06:12until this thought behind it,
06:14untouchability, until that mentality
06:16Yes, like you said,
06:18creamy layer was an observation of the Supreme Court
06:20but in the case of Vardik, where
06:22the responsibility of sub-categorization
06:24has been given to the state.
06:26So Baba, sub-categorization
06:28automatically creates a layer.
06:30It automatically creates a layer.
06:32The minute you sub-categorize
06:34and the minute you select a certain caste
06:36and you say that these people
06:38will benefit from it, you have not
06:40created a creamy layer.
06:42But how are you planning
06:44to deal with the representation
06:46of the dominant caste in the parliament,
06:48legislative assembly,
06:50in the Dalit community?
06:52How are you planning
06:54to deal with it in the future?
06:56Like with the Mushar community,
06:58in the case of Uttar Pradesh,
07:00how are you going to bring them on the board?
07:02Look, I feel that in today's movement
07:04there is a scope
07:06you have enough space
07:08to accommodate everyone.
07:10My biggest and my first
07:12fight is about the quota
07:14that has been reserved.
07:16That is not fulfilled.
07:18So sub-categorization is a very far-fetched thing.
07:20You first fulfill that.
07:22And I have received this complaint
07:24from different governments at different times.
07:26If we talk about state governments,
07:28there are so many departments of state governments
07:30where this quota is not fulfilled.
07:32So when you are not able to fulfill this,
07:34then how will you worry about
07:36the rest of the sections?
07:38The day we start fulfilling this quota
07:40we will be left with honest thoughts.
07:42That is why when the matter of lateral entry
07:44came up, I raised this question
07:46because it kills this right of yours.
07:48And I would like to thank
07:50my government, my Prime Minister
07:52that he understood the seriousness
07:54of both these issues and took decisions
07:56on the basis of it.
07:58See another question I had,
08:00when a few years ago in Bihar you had this Mahadalit.
08:02And then I think 5 months were included only
08:04in 2018 if I am not wrong.
08:06So what was that experience?
08:08I mean what did that teach you?
08:10Because you are from the Paswan community.
08:12So yes, that was the part of
08:14the same concept
08:16of sub-categorization.
08:18Even at that time by doing that
08:20certain decisions are taken
08:22more with the political
08:24thought behind it.
08:26But then eventually I believe
08:28that this is a section
08:30of the society
08:32whose unity has brought them here.
08:34And if they are sub-categorized
08:36then we have not reached
08:38to our targets.
08:40Till now we have
08:42the fight for social justice
08:44is still going on.
08:46There are still differences
08:48and discriminations.
08:50And you go to the village
08:52and live in the city.
08:54In fact even in cities you have so many examples.
08:56If that is also there
08:58then what can be more sad?
09:00You are going to the 21st century.
09:02I am an educated youth of the 21st century.
09:04I don't believe in caste, creed and religion.
09:06And I don't want
09:08that people should be seen on the basis of caste.
09:10People should be seen on the basis of religion.
09:12But in such a situation
09:14it is my responsibility to worry about
09:16those people with whom
09:18even today such discrimination is taking place.
09:20So how are you navigating?
09:22Because it is Mandal and Kamandal.
09:24You know your father
09:26you in fact said
09:28in 2014 that
09:30your father was very reluctant
09:32to leave the coalition.
09:34And Rahul Gandhi
09:36didn't meet him, didn't give him time for
09:38three and a half months.
09:40This admiration, because
09:42Paswan ji's politics was very different on social justice.
09:44Then the Ranjan Bhoomi Mandir
09:46and all this whole thing came about.
09:48BP Singh happened. I was in Bihar at the time.
09:50So this Mandal and Kamandal
09:52happened. Then in 2014 you
09:54convinced him to come here.
09:56So what did you like about
09:58the BJP so much?
10:00I think you are coming from a different kind of background.
10:02So you know
10:04more than BJP, I think I can say this
10:06very honestly
10:08it was, it is my Prime Minister.
10:10So if he leaves, you will leave?
10:16My Prime Minister's thinking
10:18was a very big reason.
10:20In 2014, I think
10:22after a long time, the country saw
10:24such a Prime Minister. At that time, the candidate for
10:26the Prime Minister's post,
10:28he used to talk about 125 crore Indians
10:30in his speeches. He used to talk about
10:32everyone's development. And as I said,
10:34I also have that thinking.
10:36I want the whole society
10:38to move forward together.
10:40You take every poor person with you.
10:42Not keeping in mind
10:44which caste he comes from,
10:46which religion he comes from. And this is what I
10:48used to hear from my Prime Minister.
10:50His thinking influenced me.
10:52You are right,
10:54Papa was in the UP Alliance and he was very happy.
10:56He was very comfortable and
10:58he so badly wanted to continue with that alliance.
11:00And...
11:02What did it take to convince him?
11:04Oh no, it was very difficult for me. I still remember the day
11:06when I put this topic in front of him
11:08for the first time, he
11:10got very angry.
11:12And
11:14he told me very clearly that
11:16don't say it again that you want to go with BJP.
11:18It was that harsh on me.
11:20And after that, I kept quiet for two months.
11:22But I think it was 2014,
11:24Feb came and
11:26till then, there was no clarity about the alliance.
11:28There was going to be a notification in March.
11:30And we needed to
11:32have a clarity.
11:34People had to be prepared. Party had to be prepared.
11:36Candidates needed time to prepare.
11:38And our other alliance partners
11:40were like the National People's Party.
11:42And all of them were not
11:44trying to show off.
11:46And these people should get two and a half seats.
11:48How two and a half? One Papa, one Chacha
11:50and me half. This was their concept of two and a half seats.
11:52So such things were happening
11:54within the alliance, which was humiliating.
11:56And then
11:58for the longest time, Papa
12:00because we used to meet Sonia
12:02and we used to meet her a lot.
12:04But every time she used to
12:06tell us to meet Rahulji.
12:08But we never met Rahulji.
12:10So that gave me
12:12a little scope to
12:14put this again.
12:16Let me ask you something.
12:18Your father in 2002
12:20joined the alliance
12:22on the ground of Godhra.
12:24Today's Prime Minister was Gujarat's Chief Minister.
12:26And now as you were saying rightly
12:28that Pradhan.
12:30Papa's thinking
12:32has always been clear about one thing.
12:34Whatever the verdict
12:36of the court
12:38and no matter how many controversial
12:40issues we have raised,
12:42this stand has always been clear.
12:44When you mentioned social justice,
12:46you raised the issue of Ram Mandir.
12:48Right from day one, my father
12:50was very clear that whatever the verdict
12:52of the court, he will welcome it.
12:54In the same way, you mentioned
12:56the Prime Minister.
12:58The alliance,
13:00did Papa think about it?
13:02Or did he not
13:04even consider it?
13:06Because by then, the verdicts had come.
13:08Yes, the report of SIT had come.
13:10Everything was done.
13:12So it was not a topic of discussion.
13:14One thing is that you just joined
13:16as Prime Minister. You are 41.
13:18And you are very outspoken.
13:20Given the fact that
13:22there was this whole reign
13:24for 10 years and in the third term
13:26there was a little balance of power.
13:28With 5 MPs,
13:30you are still very outspoken.
13:32So what is the danger in this?
13:34And how are you navigating this?
13:36You have hardly been there for a few months.
13:38Also it kind of reminds you
13:40of the legacy of your father
13:42who was also kind of
13:44talking a lot about
13:46the things that he cared for.
13:48Rather than just being a person who was just there
13:50as a partner.
13:52So how do you navigate?
13:54How are you able to?
13:56I just follow my heart.
13:58I believe that
14:00I have a long political career.
14:02God has given me a long time.
14:04So I want to
14:06work for people
14:08in this field for a long time.
14:10If I
14:12start compromising
14:14my principles and thoughts
14:16then I can't stay.
14:18People won't believe me.
14:20People won't believe that yesterday
14:22you were saying this, today you are saying that.
14:24Exactly.
14:26I have to be consistent.
14:28And I believe that if your thinking is right
14:30then your thinking will be respected.
14:32And this happened.
14:34The things about which you said
14:36that I was very outspoken,
14:38I again thank my Prime Minister
14:40that I was able to make him understand.
14:42And this was my thought behind it.
14:44And even now there are a lot of issues
14:46and I say it very confidently
14:48that I will talk to the PM
14:50because I believe that if I
14:52make him understand something, he will understand it.
14:54And he believes it.
14:56And if I
14:58am not convinced of it
15:00then I can't go
15:02or make people understand.
15:04In such a situation, the thought
15:06with which I came into politics
15:08will often get diluted.
15:10I come from a family where we have seen
15:12everything. I have always been
15:14a minister's son.
15:16In school, I was taunted as a minister's son.
15:18So, for me, a minister's position
15:20doesn't matter.
15:22What matters to me
15:24is that the thought with which I came into politics
15:26I am able to bring it down.
15:28So, if I don't take a stand
15:30in these decisions and compromise
15:32all these things
15:34then what will happen to your politics?
15:36You had the biggest
15:38struggle in politics
15:40in 2020
15:42when your uncle left the party.
15:44How did you keep the flock together?
15:46How was it possible that in 2020
15:48most of the people thought that the LGBT community is gone?
15:50Yeah, yeah.
15:52Political obituaries were written.
15:54Exactly. So, that's the reason.
15:56Tell us about that time.
15:58In addition to it, I am very curious
16:00that a helicopter and a sewing machine came from your house.
16:02How did you
16:04go back to the village?
16:06How did you explain to people that
16:08it's a hut but now we are in a helicopter?
16:10It was very difficult.
16:12People used to tell me
16:14that they will vote for me.
16:16I said, yes, vote for the helicopter.
16:18They said, no, you are lying. It's a bungalow.
16:20Exactly. A bungalow and a helicopter are huge.
16:22Also, the time was so short.
16:24In such a short time,
16:26I was fighting
16:28at different levels.
16:302021, I think.
16:32So, I am promoting
16:34my candidates.
16:36I have a new symbol.
16:38I have a new party's name.
16:40I was fighting at every level.
16:42On top of it, there was a section
16:44which believed that he is not going to win.
16:46His candidates' selection
16:48is wrong.
16:50Coming back to the question that you asked
16:52that how was that time.
16:54So, 2020 was the year
16:56when
16:58all these things started.
17:00I started with my father. I lost my father
17:02in October 2020.
17:04After he left,
17:06all the things
17:08were coming out of my hands like sand.
17:10Issues within the family,
17:12inside the party,
17:14all these things.
17:16The party was broken.
17:18The family was also gone.
17:20All the things I was trying to collect,
17:22the same things
17:24were coming out of my hands.
17:26One thing was clear in my mind
17:28that either I should sit and cry
17:30about all these things.
17:32I should sit and cry for all my life.
17:34Just to be a cry baby.
17:36Why did God do this?
17:38What wrong did I do
17:40that I had to see this day?
17:42Or else, I will be a fighter
17:44and I will fight this out.
17:46I am a fighter's son.
17:48My father has also faced
17:50opposite situations.
17:52I moved forward with the same thought
17:54that I don't want to let myself
17:56down.
17:58My father didn't have anything.
18:00He brought himself here.
18:02He gave me a platform.
18:04Why can't I bring myself here?
18:06I moved forward with the same thought.
18:08Any experience of caste
18:10in your own life?
18:12While reading stuff,
18:14your elder mother,
18:16she has also said that
18:18you have tried to keep the family together.
18:20You have two sisters, one other sister also.
18:22How have you navigated
18:24that personal space
18:26also to keep it all together?
18:28It's very difficult.
18:30This part, I think I did
18:32a little better than Papa.
18:36She speaks
18:38about you very lovingly.
18:40I am very worried about him.
18:42I really like the bond
18:44both my mother shared
18:46today.
18:48The whole family is together now.
18:50Yes, I mean,
18:52I wanted it this way.
18:54I think Papa will also
18:56be very happy to see this.
18:58The fact that any experience of
19:00the caste, you know,
19:02past one, growing up,
19:04because you were creamy layer
19:06in that sense.
19:08From your experience,
19:10it's a perfect example
19:12of how it all…
19:14I am just using the words
19:16that have been thrown about.
19:18And then you went to become an actor.
19:20You did it in one film.
19:24The one with Kangana, I haven't seen it.
19:26And then suddenly you said that,
19:28I mean, you yourself said that
19:30I was a disaster
19:32before people could say it.
19:34What made you switch?
19:36And why politics was so…
19:38Was it in your blood?
19:40I don't know.
19:42I think this comes very naturally.
19:44I mean, though we are
19:46we'll continue to be criticized
19:48as nepo kids and stuff,
19:50but then what else you do?
19:52I mean, this is what you have seen in your house.
19:54And my house, which was a normal house for me,
19:56was a very different house
19:58to any of my friends, you know.
20:00At their house, you know,
20:02evenings used to be very calm
20:04and here there used to be so much of
20:06noise, people coming and going.
20:08You know, my friends used to come to my house
20:10and they were like,
20:12it feels like we are roaming in India Gate.
20:14It was a very normal setup.
20:16When I used to go to their house,
20:18I used to think,
20:20don't you feel scared?
20:22So, I saw this.
20:24This came naturally.
20:26And this happens to every family.
20:28If you go to a medical home
20:30where there are parents and doctors,
20:32they know the terminologies.
20:34They see and learn.
20:36So, what could I do?
20:38It was in my blood.
20:40As I said, I repeat,
20:42it was a disaster.
20:44I did so bad there.
20:46You miss it or no?
20:48You miss acting?
20:50No, no, not at all.
20:52During shoot only, I was very clear
20:54that this can't happen.
20:56How did you decide to become an actor?
20:58I don't know how it happened.
21:00I still don't know how it happened
21:02and why it happened.
21:04I myself ask myself a lot of questions.
21:06Why?
21:08But I think on school college days,
21:10I climbed a chickpea tree
21:12and found out the truth.
21:14And then you came back.
21:16Yes, that was when
21:18I got this experience.
21:20I got the exposure of this.
21:22I used to see Biharis there.
21:24They used to say,
21:26hey brother, hey brother.
21:28They used to hit him with a stick.
21:30At that time,
21:32there was a huge movement
21:34against Biharis.
21:36They started a movement.
21:38I used to ask myself a lot of questions.
21:40First of all, why do Biharis
21:42have to leave their own state?
21:44Why can't we live in our own state?
21:46Why can't we create a system
21:48so that no Bihari has to leave his state?
21:50And that is what I am working at.
21:52Exactly.
21:54So how do you plan to tackle that?
21:56Because migration, I was covering that COVID-19
21:58and it's heartbreaking
22:00because they were people from my state.
22:02They were tying a bottle of Bisleri
22:04to their feet.
22:06And that time,
22:08the Prime Minister of this country
22:10said stay home.
22:12But what about homeless people?
22:14What about migrant labourers?
22:16So I am just saying that there are a lot of these things
22:18when you are saying that you care about
22:20Palayan and you care about your own people.
22:22But the government at that time did not really care about them at all.
22:24In fact, it was such a confusing time.
22:26And if you were out on the streets,
22:28you would have seen.
22:30As reporters, we had to go through
22:32so much trauma looking at all that.
22:34So how do you plan to do that?
22:36Because till now, Bihar has not got a special status.
22:40A corridor or industrial development?
22:42First of all,
22:44we need to think about this.
22:46We Biharis,
22:48neither do we have a lack of hard work
22:50nor do we have a lack of intelligence.
22:52I mean, it goes without saying
22:54that Bihari,
22:56you will find them in media houses,
22:58you will find them in business houses,
23:00you will find them in heads.
23:02Needless to say, maximum ISIPS officers
23:04come from our states.
23:06You will see in other states as well.
23:08Bihari, not only in other states,
23:10but in other countries as well.
23:12When I travel internationally,
23:14I see Bihari diaspora sitting on big positions,
23:16big entrepreneurs, big businessmen
23:18who have established themselves in other states.
23:20So when Bihari is so much ahead
23:22in every field,
23:24then why did Bihar lag so much behind?
23:26The reason is because
23:28that system in Bihar was never ready.
23:30Let me give you an example.
23:32In Kota, the Bihari who teaches,
23:34the Bihari who is the owner of
23:36most of the sexist organizations,
23:38but the system is Rajasthani.
23:40In fact, the Bhojpuri film industry
23:42is your headquarter in Bombay.
23:44Why can't we make a film city there?
23:46Why can't we make an educational hub there?
23:48Why can't we choose different districts?
23:50Bhagarpur, Muzaffarpur,
23:52why can't we make it?
23:54But no one works in that direction.
23:56The problem is that
23:58the politicians there
24:00or whoever was a part of the government
24:02at different times,
24:04and the biggest reason for this is that
24:06when you go to Bihar,
24:08you will find Bhumiyans,
24:10you will find Brahmins,
24:12you will find Rajputs,
24:14you will find Dalits,
24:16Mahadalits, you will find Muslims
24:18but you won't find Biharis.
24:20And the government of Bihar
24:22took advantage of this at different times.
24:24Different political parties took advantage.
24:26They never felt the need
24:28to work and get votes.
24:30They know that they have to set
24:32an equation on the paper.
24:34This is his vote, this is his vote.
24:36Someone called it social engineering.
24:38Social engineering,
24:40this beautiful terminology has been given to him.
24:42In fact, you also said that the combination of
24:44M and Y is your wife and son.
24:46Yes, not Muslim and Yadav.
24:48How do you seek to beat that?
24:50This Yadav thing, imagine it's a very...
24:52No, so I think eventually,
24:54first of all, someone has to start speaking.
24:56I think I am the only one
24:58who has the courage to stand on
25:00the stage and say that I don't
25:02believe in caste-based religion,
25:04where the politics of the state
25:06is built around it.
25:08In fact, in this country,
25:10the politics of Hindutva is also there.
25:14Are you putting words in my mouth?
25:16Not at all.
25:18I am just saying.
25:20Let's come back to Bihar politics.
25:222025 assembly elections.
25:24What's going to be your strategy?
25:26Because as you were saying,
25:28whatever government has been there for so many years,
25:30mostly it has been the government of India.
25:32We know that.
25:34As I said,
25:36I am moving forward with my vision.
25:38I believe that
25:40NDA will do a beautiful,
25:42an excellent performance.
25:44We did a good performance in the Lok Sabha
25:46in Bihar.
25:48And I believe that in the 25th elections,
25:50NDA, Janta Dal United,
25:52Bharatiya Janta Party, our party,
25:54all five of us together,
25:56will perform very well.
25:58Even now,
26:00I am not a part of the government in Bihar.
26:02I don't have a ministerial post.
26:04I am not a part of the government.
26:06So it is not possible for me
26:08to implement my policies,
26:10my policies, my thoughts.
26:12I believe that
26:14there will be a situation
26:16where the government's policies,
26:18decisions taken in the Vidhan Sabha,
26:20will play an important role.
26:22Lok Jan Shakti Party, Ram Vilas will also play an important role.
26:24Bihar first, Bihari first.
26:26This is the vision
26:28which I want to implement.
26:30But how, if you can give an example,
26:32let's say if you get,
26:34in 2025,
26:36let's say migration,
26:38how do you plan to,
26:40do you have any vision?
26:42Yes, I told you, right?
26:44First thing,
26:46So now, interesting, I love this topic.
26:48So now,
26:50in Bihar, you have to prepare that system.
26:52How will you prepare that system?
26:54Today, I will tell you to make an educational hub here.
26:56Stop the children's plan.
26:58We give thousands of crores
27:00in other states
27:02in the name of coaching fees.
27:04If we can retain that,
27:06our revenue will be generated.
27:08It will contribute to our system.
27:10Anyway, we made an educational hub.
27:12We said that we will bring in business houses.
27:14How?
27:16You have to work on the basics.
27:18Land reforms.
27:20In our state,
27:22it is so difficult to get land.
27:24We have to prepare
27:26a government pool.
27:28These are the basic arrangements
27:30that we have to prepare.
27:32Ease of business, single window clearances.
27:34Even today,
27:36there are many businesses
27:38that people go to Bihar
27:40with the thought of opening.
27:42It is very difficult.
27:44It breaks your willpower.
27:46In all these things,
27:48we need to bring changes.
27:50We will sit in the government
27:52and try to do it.
27:54You have talked about land reform.
27:56It is a sore topic in Bihar.
27:58Land reform was the first.
28:00There were all these comments.
28:02There will be bloodshed.
28:04I am looking at you
28:06and I am thinking
28:08how are you even planning to
28:10navigate?
28:12For the betterment of my state
28:14and to bring down
28:16the concept of development.
28:18What about the voter politics?
28:20I don't do
28:22vote bank politics.
28:24If I did,
28:26I would have ignored
28:28a lot of things.
28:30But I don't do
28:32vote bank politics.
28:34Eventually, I believe that
28:36if there is development,
28:38if we are not able to bring it down,
28:40we will spend the next 70 years
28:42like this.
28:44It is a great thing.
28:46Nobody has talked about it in a long while.
28:48In fact, in the recent elections,
28:50they put it on the bank burner.
28:52You wanted to ask something.
28:54I was about to ask
28:56about the elections.
28:58As you were saying,
29:00how much are you expecting
29:02in the seat share?
29:04That's a very good question.
29:06My partners have not
29:08asked me this question yet.
29:10How can I answer you?
29:12The outlook needs to plan.
29:14At least in the 30-40
29:16assembly segment,
29:18you are ahead.
29:20So, you are suggesting me a number?
29:22I am just asking you.
29:24I have no idea.
29:26Anyway,
29:28it would be very wrong for me
29:30to break the boundaries
29:32of gatbandhan dharma
29:34and then enter the gatbandhan.
29:36So, I want to follow the gatbandhan dharma.
29:38You have always talked about
29:40gatbandhan dharma.
29:42What is gatbandhan?
29:44It doesn't seem like you are following dharma.
29:46There are some rules of gatbandhan
29:48that you should follow.
29:50There are issues.
29:52You should not come to the public platform.
29:54You should sit inside and complete it.
29:56There should be discussions inside.
29:58Sometimes, I raise some things publicly.
30:00Why? Because it is important
30:02to keep it in front of the public.
30:04Otherwise, I have that platform
30:06to sit inside and talk.
30:08That is why,
30:10I don't want to keep my government
30:12in the dark.
30:14I have that space
30:16inside the gatbandhan.
30:18You are doing it beautifully.
30:20We have not seen this kind of
30:22outspoken situation in a long time.
30:24Whereas, you are within the system
30:26and you are talking about the right things.
30:28You are not letting go of your stance.
30:30A lot of people
30:32dilute their vision.
30:34We have seen so many political parties
30:36diluting their own stances.
30:38One thing is clear in my mind.
30:40I don't know how others do it.
30:42But, mine is an issue-based alliance.
30:44You can find all my interviews
30:46from the 2014 archive.
30:48I have categorically said that
30:50it is an issue-based alliance.
30:52There are different issues, different agendas
30:54and different priorities.
30:56That is why we are different parties.
30:58We are in touch with each other.
31:00So, I will have my own agendas
31:02and BJP will have their own agendas.
31:04At different times, they will
31:06take their own agendas and I will take mine.
31:08Coming back to my one curious question.
31:10How do you translate a helicopter
31:12to the public?
31:14It is quite interesting.
31:16A sewing machine was invented
31:18which is very different.
31:20It was difficult.
31:22What do you say to people?
31:24We can ensure that you also travel on flight.
31:26How do you translate that?
31:30It was not that dramatic.
31:32Then?
31:34I still prefer
31:36a conservative style of campaigning.
31:38I prefer door-to-door.
31:40I prefer meeting people in person.
31:42I think when you meet people and explain
31:44to them, they understand.
31:46Is politics fun?
31:48That is why you didn't help me.
31:50Otherwise, I would have been very tensed.
31:52This is the last one from my side.
31:54You said that you will file a revision petition
31:56in the Supreme Court.
31:58Have you already filed the review petition?
32:00My legal team is on it.
32:02They are on it.
32:04You think that because already
32:06it is a seven bench.
32:08I want that the comments that have come
32:10because for me it was one of the concerns
32:12that the observations
32:14that have come from the Supreme Court
32:16do not mention untouchability.
32:18It should be mentioned.
32:20It should become the basis
32:22for the discussion.
32:24Definitely.
32:26I just want to put one thing.
32:28While the Supreme Court has said this,
32:30in India, there are several state governments
32:32that have already made a commission.
32:34And each and every commission,
32:36Sadashiva Commission, Ghonsingh Commission,
32:38all of them recommended sub-categorization.
32:40All of them.
32:42Take Karnataka, Tamil Nadu, Uttar Pradesh, Maharashtra.
32:44All of them.
32:46That's okay.
32:48They have recommended it.
32:50You need to speak to every stakeholder.
32:52Yes.
32:54About whom you are giving
32:56decisions.
32:58You need to live with them.
33:00You need to spend time with them
33:02to understand what they are going through.
33:04Now, giving you an example.
33:06You tell me,
33:08after a chief minister goes to the temple,
33:10if the temple is being washed,
33:12which creamy layer does the chief minister
33:14come in?
33:16The concept of creamy layer is what?
33:18Is it only economics-based or is it also
33:20otherwise psychological?
33:22There is a lot of emotional stuff attached to caste in India.
33:24Yes. I mean, see, in many other sections,
33:26creamy layer might be on the basis of
33:28economics,
33:30on the basis of educational
33:32background and stuff.
33:34But then here, as I said,
33:36here, Aadhaar is completely different.
33:38If you go to the tribals,
33:40the entire Anusuchitjan caste is different.
33:42Their worries,
33:44their problems.
33:46Then you can't do it.
33:48You can't do it on one parameter.
33:50Including when it came to bringing UCC,
33:52even then my worry was
33:54that in UCC,
33:56how will you do the tribals?
33:58Because their attire is different,
34:00their way of speaking, their lifestyle,
34:02their traditions.
34:04All their things are different.
34:06So how can we do it?
34:08So when the government of Uttarakhand did it,
34:10when they did it,
34:12they exempted it.
34:14Because you can't.
34:16Because they have another kind of
34:18ecosystem.
34:20So what's right for you is right for me also.
34:22No, in fact, actually,
34:24untouchability was there in the SCST category.
34:26The rest of the castes,
34:28whether they were formed or not,
34:30that was later.
34:32But another thing is,
34:34if politics is fun,
34:36do you like it?
34:38I love this.
34:40I love where I am.
34:42If fashion becomes your profession,
34:44then nothing like it.
34:46But is it tough traveling from here to there?
34:48Because you enjoy doing it,
34:50you don't even realize how many hours have passed.
34:52I don't want to exaggerate
34:54or show off how much work I am doing.
34:56But there are days when I work for 22 hours.
34:58How many times
35:00do we work
35:02without sleeping for a day or two
35:04just taking naps?
35:06But you do it because you enjoy it.
35:08And I have a comparison.
35:10When I was doing movies,
35:12I used to get a call at 9 in the morning
35:14and I used to wake up at 12 in the morning
35:16because I was not interested.
35:18I was so reluctant.
35:20If I have a meeting at 7 in the morning,
35:22I will get up at 5 in the morning,
35:24prepare for the meeting and study for it.
35:26So if you enjoy what you are doing,
35:28then I love it.
35:30And one other thing is that
35:32you are also going to focus on women and youth,
35:34not the M-Y combination of Laluji.
35:36So how are you doing it?
35:38Because that also has been an issue
35:40because your party has one of the youngest MPs,
35:42Shambhavi.
35:44So she is there.
35:46She is 25.
35:48So how do you go about choosing candidates,
35:50firstly?
35:52And this is also another kind of mission,
35:54to get many young people.
35:56So I have selected my candidates.
35:58If I had done it on the basis of caste,
36:00then there are so many seats
36:02where I was told from day one
36:04that you have made a very wrong choice
36:06and you are losing this seat.
36:08But because even then I was clear
36:10that I don't want to get up from caste or religion
36:12I want people to be connected to my vision.
36:14Look at the capabilities of my candidates.
36:16Look at the possibilities
36:18to see if they are capable or not.
36:20Today I am so happy
36:22that this is the picture of Bihar
36:24I want to present in front of the world.
36:26Not only the country,
36:28in front of the world.
36:30They have made a picture of Biharis.
36:32But these are young,
36:34well-spoken, well-educated,
36:36articulate youngsters.
36:38Who put their point
36:40beautifully on the South Pole.
36:42So regarding this,
36:44I had clarity in my mind
36:46that I have to give more opportunities to youngsters.
36:48I was choosing on very limited seats.
36:50But in these 5 seats,
36:52where I gave representation
36:54to the youth,
36:56to the women,
36:58I followed the women's power law.
37:0040% of the women candidates were women.
37:02You have been very secular in your approach
37:04in terms of your choice.
37:06Secular I am very much.
37:08All Biharis should be.
37:12Which is a great thing.
37:14Thank you so much for talking to us.