On this episode of the Bob Ryan & Jeff Goodman NBA Podcast, Bob Ryan and Gary Tanguay take a deep dive into the depressing reality of being a Washington Wizards fan. Bob goes through the history of the organization, the changes to the team's name and location, when they stopped making an effort to contend, and more. Plus, Jerry West is being honored, and th story of how pat Riley became Pat Rile. All that, and much more!
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00:00Bob Ryan Gary Tangway pod here on CLNS Media brought to you by PrizePix, the exclusive
00:23daily fantasy partner of CLNS Media Network.
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00:27Bob is coming to us from the friendly confines of Western Maine and good old Weld Lake, as
00:34we can tell.
00:35That is not his usual background of his home library, if you will.
00:39All right, Bob, let's get to it.
00:42We're going to talk about the Washington Wizards and focus on them.
00:47What was the word you used?
00:48Are they the poster child for mediocrity?
00:51Yes, but I've even figured it out that's even worse than that.
00:56By saying they're mediocre, that gives mediocre the benefit of the doubt.
01:02They are horrible and it's been going on and here's how badly it is.
01:10If you were born in 1994, so you're either 29 or 30, depending on your birth date as
01:15we speak.
01:17If you were born in 1994, here is the situation.
01:23I can't imagine how you could be an NBA fan with the team that you've been stuck with
01:28as a rule.
01:29It is relentless.
01:32I got to back up before I get into it.
01:35Starting in 1968, 69, the Bullets embarked on a decade of true excellence, true excellence.
01:45Let's see, I've got my stuff here.
01:50They were in a decade of the 70s, starting with 68.
01:58They won one title and got to the finals three times, other times, four times in the final.
02:04From 68, 69 until 78, 79.
02:09They were good.
02:10This is the team and that was a fun team, the Baltimore Bullets of Wes Unseld, Elvin
02:17Hayes.
02:18That was later.
02:19Wes Unseld, Jack Marin because he was traded for Elvin Hayes, Jack Marin, Kevin Lockery,
02:24Earl Monroe, et cetera, et cetera.
02:27Gus Johnson.
02:28When did Kevin Grieve come into play?
02:31That's later, late in the decade because he was the Kentucky team of 78.
02:39Gus Johnson, never forget what a head of his time player, 6'6", power forward Gus Johnson
02:47was, a leaping man, a tremendous guy and he had the great battles, those great battles
02:52with Dave the Busher.
02:53Okay.
02:54So, if you go back and you're in your 60s or 70s, you finally remember the great Bullets
03:00of the decade of the 70s culminating in winning the championship in 78, okay, with Elvin Hayes.
03:10But if you're 30 years old, here are some of the sad facts of your Bullets' existence.
03:19You've been in the playoffs 10 times in 30 years, okay, 10 times, during which time your
03:26record is 30 and 42.
03:29This is after a period of time with your father and your uncle Ed and your grandfather.
03:34They were in the playoffs 12 straight years, okay, but it's worse than that.
03:38In the decade, in all the years since they last won it and went to the finals in 79,
03:45they have had no 50 win seasons whatsoever, only eight 40 win seasons in 40 years and
03:55ready for this, 20s or less 13 times, including this year when they won 15 games.
04:03They are relentless, and the thing about it that is so frustrating, and everybody who
04:08follows the league knows this, that if you're going to be bad, be bad, be bad, bad, bad,
04:16like they are this year.
04:17They still couldn't get the number one pick, but they did get the number two pick, Alex
04:21Sarf.
04:22We'll see how good he is.
04:23But the Wizards, someone wrote this once upon a time, I don't know who could get a credit.
04:28The Wizards have been a mediocre team for half a human lifetime and have rarely even
04:33been bad enough to get a top pick.
04:36This is true.
04:37This is true.
04:38So this is where you're stuck, ultimate, complete, relentless mediocrity.
04:43You can't dig out the way other teams in sports have done, including the Rockets who are digging
04:48out now, and we know that teams have done this.
04:54It's just so sad.
04:56So I applaud anybody in that area who was a fan of the NBA because you've been stuck.
05:02There have been, there was a little moderate success in the last decade, but it didn't
05:07last long.
05:08It didn't last long.
05:09Look, they had some problem.
05:11Remember Gilbert Arenas?
05:12Oh, yeah.
05:13Yes, yes, yes.
05:14He was a very good player, agent zero, but then next thing you know, he's got guns in
05:19the locker room.
05:20Right, exactly.
05:21There's always something.
05:22There's always something.
05:23You're right.
05:25There's always something.
05:26So I really applaud anybody who's a fan of that franchise.
05:32But it's been kind of a, you know, you realize that this team is in its sixth different identity
05:38since it came into the league in 1961.
05:41That I did not know.
05:43This team was hatched as an expansion team, and if I'm not mistaken, I should have looked
05:47it up better, this was the first expansion when the league went from eight teams to nine.
05:53They were the Chicago Packers.
05:56Really?
05:57After one year, yes.
05:59I don't know whether there was pressure from a certain city in Wisconsin or what, but they
06:03changed their nickname after one year to the Chicago Zephyrs.
06:07That I remember.
06:08And then they moved to Baltimore, where they were hatched as the Bullets.
06:13And they were, in one year, I don't know if you remember this, Gary, in 73, 74, they were
06:18the Capitol Bullets.
06:19Yes, I do remember that because they moved to Landover, Maryland.
06:22Correct.
06:23That's exactly right.
06:25Exactly right.
06:26And then, yeah, when they went from Baltimore, the Civic Arena, which I remember, and then
06:31they became the Washington Bullets, finally, when they, and now they were pressured by
06:37society to change that nickname, and they became the Wizards, okay?
06:45So that is, that's the sad tale.
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08:15So let's look at the roster.
08:16What do you think their chances are of any kind of significant improvement?
08:23The core of the roster, you ready?
08:25Jordan Poole, Kyle Kuzma, Jonas Valencianez.
08:31You know, did you know they picked up Malcolm Bragdon?
08:33I did not know.
08:34That's where he is.
08:36That's where he is.
08:37Corey Kispert, Sadiq Bae, who I kind of like, Marvin Bagley III, who's been a flop in his
08:44time.
08:45And they had the number one, number two pick this year in a draft, Alex Tsar of France.
08:50And a new coach who I know nothing about other than the fact he's got a OKC pedigree, and
08:57that is Brian Keefe.
08:58So we'll see what he can do.
08:59But among the people who mismanaged that franchise over the years was some guy named Michael
09:03Jordan, if you recall.
09:04I do.
09:05Yes.
09:07And it didn't help them.
09:08No, it didn't.
09:09And as someone pointed out, it didn't help him by playing either, by taking up a spot
09:13when he was.
09:14Well, I mean.
09:15He did average 20.
09:16Go ahead.
09:17He did average 20 points a game on the way out, which only the only other person I know
09:22did that was someone else we're going to talk about today in the Jerry West.
09:27But anyway, but he mismanaged the franchise as he's mismanaged the Hornets.
09:33He's driven them into the ground.
09:34And, you know, his expertise does not extend beyond his playing.
09:39That's for sure.
09:40So anyway, that's the sad tale of now.
09:43I don't say this.
09:44I feel badly for the fans.
09:46You know, no set of fandom deserves this.
09:49You know, it's just the people who have been relentlessly loyal.
09:53But that's the story.
09:54They are.
09:55They're not even good enough to bad enough to be mediocre.
09:58They're awful.
09:59Yeah.
10:00They're not good enough.
10:02They're not bad enough.
10:04They're not good enough.
10:05And they're not bad enough.
10:06But that could change.
10:07You mentioned the Jordan thing, though.
10:09Didn't he play because ownership wanted him to play or the other owners begged him to
10:15play?
10:16Yeah, they wanted that, like Michael, like Michael was a driver.
10:20Everywhere they went, the building was still sold out on the road.
10:23No question.
10:24You know, no, I mean, Doug Collins was coaching and he was very defensive about Michael's
10:32play.
10:33You know, and, you know, he was not he was not happy when certain kind of questions he
10:41did not like.
10:42And I he's a good guy.
10:43I liked him very much.
10:44But that was tough.
10:45That was tough for him when he had when he had to deal with the Michael Jordan situation
10:50and pretend that he liked it.
10:51He couldn't have liked it.
10:52Right.
10:53Because it wasn't that it was there for commerce purposes, but also they never tanked all the
10:59way.
11:00I mentioned Gilbert Arenas.
11:02Then they had Bradley Beal and then, of course, they had Jordan, but they always had one player
11:08that we considered a franchise player.
11:11Now, I don't know if Beal's a franchise player, but he's a very good player.
11:15You know, I I'm very judicious with the use of that word franchise in any sport.
11:20But Beal was an all star level player.
11:23They had some all star level players, but but not enough of them at the same time.
11:29That's for sure.
11:30Right.
11:31You can't have an all star player that keeps you out of the lottery.
11:34But I just, you know, yeah, so they just want to they got a tank, Bob.
11:39It's Tankapalooza in D.C.
11:42That's what you got to do.
11:43I'm going to get it.
11:44And they got it.
11:45No, I'm going to repeat one more time.
11:47If you were to people, maybe somebody just tuned in.
11:49If you were born in 1994 and that's your team, they have won in the 20s or less than that
11:59twice, 13 times in your lifetime.
12:03They have they have won fewer than 30 games.
12:07Right.
12:08You deserve whoever you are.
12:09Well, I think the whole region deserves better.
12:13I know that they had Stanley Cup success.
12:17But the Redskins have been our commanders.
12:19Excuse me, commanders.
12:20They changed the name.
12:21Oh, the Redskins leading to the commander.
12:23Yeah.
12:24I mean, they were once the epitome of excellence, as we know.
12:26You know, I remember that.
12:27I mean, yeah.
12:29Yeah.
12:30You know, George Allen and all that.
12:31And the future is now and, you know, many years.
12:34But of course, now that they've been they've been woeful for again, you're right.
12:39They do.
12:40They deserve better.
12:41I mean, Baltimore had a Weaver in that group.
12:45The the Wizards were always I mean, as you mentioned, the Wizards, when they were the
12:48Bullets with Elvin Hayes and was on sale.
12:50I mean, they went to the finals once, went to the finals twice, right, like seventy five
12:55and seventy nine and they lost and they won in seventy nine.
12:59The Orioles were always in it.
13:00Orioles are always in it.
13:02The Redskins are always in it.
13:05You know, that area is getting killed.
13:09Yep.
13:10Well, they did sneak the the National Snack, snuck one in a few years ago, but that's right.
13:16That's memory speaking quickly, too, by the way, because we're letting Juan Soto go, you
13:21know, was their equivalent of Mookie, you know, us letting Mookie go.
13:25Right.
13:26So there you go.
13:27All right.
13:28Bob, what what feelings do you have on expansion or the discussion of?
13:35I think that I understand that there's a couple of markets that would like a team to Seattle
13:42that's got screwed.
13:43One of the two worst screwings in NBA history, the other being Buffalo.
13:47And who else are you talking about?
13:50Louisville, maybe, because they were pillars of the ABA.
13:53Yeah, I guess I can't see Louisville doing that.
13:57I just we've got enough teams.
14:01Scheduling is a mess.
14:02Always.
14:03They never they can never decide how they want to schedule, you know, and you want a
14:06balanced schedule.
14:07You went on a balanced schedule.
14:08You went, you know, I don't know.
14:10And I thought, you know, I can't imagine.
14:14And this is a talent worthy of it, I guess, but not really.
14:18Is it?
14:19I mean, the only way you could justify the talent is because of the European invasion.
14:26You snatched the words out of my mouth.
14:27You grabbed them out of my mouth.
14:30I was going to say that, Gary.
14:32Great minds.
14:33And as I say, yes, thank God for Europe.
14:36It's just like in baseball.
14:37Can you imagine baseball without people whose first language is Spanish?
14:40Oh, my God.
14:41Major leagues are unrecognized.
14:44But that's that's another topic for another day.
14:46But anyway, yes.
14:47Europe.
14:48Thank God for Europe.
14:49And we're on a run now.
14:50Was it five years in a row now?
14:52The MVP is, you know, now the same three people, but and the best players in the league now
14:58are arguably European, which speaks well to them.
15:03The problem is with the league is kids, kids, you know, the James of Tatums of the world
15:10are coming in at 19, you know, yes.
15:14And I just don't think that.
15:16It's fair, unless you're LeBron James, to expect a lot of a 19 year old to come when
15:21they come to the league.
15:23Depending on how it works on the other end with legislation, et cetera, due to the NIL
15:30vast transformation of the nature of college sports in America, there is now much more
15:35incentive for someone to stay in in certain circumstances than to come out.
15:39You're going to get paid.
15:42You're going to it will help your development if you've got a good, you know, the right
15:45coach.
15:46Not all coaches are equal, God knows.
15:48But there are some wonderful coaches in college who can help people develop into professional
15:52players.
15:53Yeah.
15:54But we don't know how that's all going to shake out either, because that if there's
15:56anything in its training, you know, in its formative stage, as we were playing trial
16:02and error, how this is going to work out.
16:04It's the NIL thing, believe me, combined with the transfer portal.
16:09But the NIL, you know, we got a huge lawsuit.
16:11I don't know how many there are people, you know, going after them now to get back paid
16:16that they thought they're just deprived of.
16:18We'll see how the money holds up and how it's going to work and everything.
16:21We have no idea.
16:22But this is how the direct effect on could have a direct effect on how many kids come
16:27out when and we might get at least instead of 19 year olds, you might start getting some
16:3021 year olds at least.
16:33So we'll see.
16:34Which is a good thing.
16:35Yes.
16:36You know, I've had the chance to see the Patriots win the big game five times.
16:41There's nothing like it.
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18:00You mentioned Jerry West.
18:02The Lakers are going to have number 44 on their uniform this year, and we know that
18:05you are a fan of Mr. West and his legacy.
18:10I am.
18:11He was a class act on and off the court.
18:14The one guy that Johnny Most couldn't say a bad word about, Gentleman Jerry, and instead
18:19of, you know, instead of, he quelled out of a sore, his teammate Kurt Rambis, Jerry West
18:24was class personified, absolutely wonderful player, along with Oscar Robertson.
18:29They just dominated in the 60s.
18:31They were the big all-star backboard every single year, literally.
18:36And West was, you can't say enough good things about Jerry West.
18:40And then no one has had a more star-spangled career moving from playing ranks to the executive
18:47ranks.
18:48His coaching?
18:49Mets are Mets.
18:50But there may have been mitigating circumstances.
18:51Okay.
18:52His coaching doesn't, but his executive decisions were wonderful.
18:59And you know, and not to mention he's, you know, hired Pat Riley.
19:05He was just Mr. Basketball.
19:06The logo, Bob, the logo.
19:11He's the logo.
19:13I knew it.
19:14I knew I was going to spit it out.
19:15Can't say enough good things about Jerry West.
19:17And by the way, they're honoring Jerry West after, in part, I think is out of the embarrassment
19:24caused by Jeannie Buss, who named her top five Lakers of all time and didn't name Jerry
19:28West.
19:29Oh my God.
19:30Yeah.
19:31I don't know if you knew that.
19:32I don't know.
19:33Oh yeah.
19:35I think it was probably in that spring that she, she came up with a list of top five Lakers
19:38and it didn't include Jerry West.
19:40So they, they, they're ashamed, almost shamed into this now, but it's nice.
19:47It's really good.
19:48And every, everybody who wears that uniform should be proud to have Jerry West's number
19:52on it.
19:53Well, yeah.
19:54I mean, I'm just thinking that she's probably went Colby, Shaq, LeBron, Wilt, and Elgin.
19:58No disrespect to Elgin.
20:01No, she included Phil Jackson as opposed to a player.
20:05Oh, forget it.
20:06That's ridiculous.
20:07Well, she dated him for God's sake.
20:09So, right.
20:10Yeah.
20:11I mean, they, you know, yeah.
20:14So that got some, it did get attention out there.
20:17I can tell you that.
20:18So anyway, this is a nice thing.
20:21Well, I'm glad you brought up the front office capability, the roster that he had, I remember
20:29his coach.
20:30I mean, it just wasn't the type of roster that he developed later on.
20:36But the fact that he thought Pat Riley would make a good coach goes underrated, undertold
20:43because Pat Riley was a guy who had a, I mean, he was at the end of the bench, right?
20:49NBA career.
20:50He was just, he was a bench guy, really.
20:55And then he was a broadcaster.
20:56They put him, he was looking for something to do.
20:58They put him in the booth with Chick and Jerry.
21:01I don't know what he saw in him, but he thought he was the right guy.
21:05I mean, without Jerry West, the Pat Riley, the hair slicked back, the suits, the Knicks,
21:09the Miami Heat doesn't happen.
21:11No, you're right.
21:12It doesn't happen.
21:14And you're actually right.
21:15Well, the Lakers in that period of time were an ideal functioning sports organization.
21:20The owner owned the GM, GM and the coach coached and the players played and they didn't get
21:26confusion on any of the roles anywhere along the way, Jerry Buss, Dr. Jerry Buss let Jerry
21:32do his job.
21:34And Jerry let Pat do his job.
21:35Now in the end, there was fiction between the two, apparently, okay, it was, but for
21:41a period of time when they were so successful winning five times that that's why, that's
21:46how they worked.
21:47They worked so well in that regard.
21:48By the way, I must tell you an anecdote, I'm sorry, about, about Pat Riley.
21:53So it's 1976 and it's the NBA finals, Celtics and the Suns.
21:59And as I have told before, I was having a little bit of a dispute, if you will, with
22:06Tommy Heinsohn and I decided I would stay at Paul Westfall's house when they went to
22:11Phoenix rather than a hotel or, or travel with them or anything else.
22:16And Paul had a pool and it being the three hour difference, and it is three hours because
22:25they don't go daylight in Phoenix, even though it's two hours now, they, they, we're back
22:33at the pool at two o'clock in the afternoon, I'm done writing because I had a deadline,
22:37which was five o'clock.
22:38So I'm all done.
22:39And I'm, we're at the pool, Alvin Adams lived down the street, and someone else would come
22:43over.
22:44And another guy would come over.
22:45He was the 13th man on the roster that year, he was the guy left off for the playoffs,
22:51Pat Riley.
22:52Right.
22:53He was the afterthought on that 76.
22:56Now, the 71-72 Lakers, great team, great team, one of the great, great teams in NBA history,
23:02the 33 straight win team that won the championship.
23:05He was a key, he was a, he was Peyton Pritchard on that team.
23:10Not the same game.
23:12He had a significant substitute role.
23:15He and John Q. Trapp, okay, so they were, so, but at no point in his career was he more
23:19than that.
23:20As a, he's, but you know, he's revered in Kentucky, as a college player, it was six
23:27three jump center, and played way over his size, and was tough competitor and all that,
23:33you know, it's a wonderful college player.
23:35But anyway, that's, but he was the 13th man on the 12th Man's Phoenix Suns roster in 76,
23:41hanging out at Joey, at Paul Westmole's pool.
23:43Did you have any idea he would be a good coach?
23:46No.
23:47No, I didn't know him that well at the time, you know, no, I mean, I knew he was, I thought
23:51I would say he was great, but the level that he showed, you can't predict, if anybody can
23:57identify people like that, they, what a hiring firm addition you'd be, I don't think anybody
24:03could dream, I don't think anybody could dream that, but boy, he was ready.
24:07You know, slogans, you know, and, and great, great descriptions, and just, he obviously
24:14had great players.
24:15See, this is where West, this is where West gets the, needs to get the credit.
24:20I mean, I don't know, did Jerry trade for Jabbar?
24:27That was, no, oh no, I'm trying to think who the GM was, but Kareem forced his way, basically
24:34pouted his way out of Milwaukee.
24:36He wanted out of Milwaukee, so Kareem moved to LA, but Jerry drafted Magic, right?
24:43Oh yeah, yeah, oh yeah, and yeah, oh yeah, no, he, he, oh, worthy, the big one is worthy,
24:50because there were three guys that were in the same category in people's minds in that
24:54draft that year, Terry Cummings and Dominique Wilkins.
25:00Now, Dominique Wilkins was certainly a tough guy to pass over, you know, but he took worthy
25:06when he had an option, had that, you know, so we don't know how Wilkins would have worked
25:13out with them, but I think worthy turned out to be a much safer pick for them.
25:17Yeah, he was the perfect guy for that team, yeah.
25:20And that's the big one of all that he gets credit for, I think, also he signed McAdoo
25:26when McAdoo was now done, and he gave, you know, and he gave him extended life, and that
25:34was an important part of those teams too.
25:36Well, there you have it, Bob Ryan from the shores of Weld Lake, from Web Lake, Web Lake
25:41in Weld May.
25:42Web Lake.
25:43Web Lake.
25:44Yes.
25:45Web Lake.
25:46Anyways, brought to you by Price Picks, the exclusive daily fantasy partner of CLNS Media
25:51Network.
25:52Pick more, pick less with Price Picks.
25:53All right, Bob, talk to you soon.
25:55Bye.
25:56Bye.
25:57Okay, Gary.