On this episode of the Big 3 NBA Podcast, A. Sherrod Blakely andf Gary Washburn discuss something that Jayson Tatum put out there. Do the Celtics have the best bench in the NBA? Among the best? For sure. But the best? Golden State and Atlanta, two teams that beat the C's, might have something to say about that.
That, and much more!
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That, and much more!
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SportsTranscript
00:00The Big 3 NBA Podcast is powered by PrizePix, the exclusive daily fantasy partner of the
00:23CLNS Media Network.
00:25Welcome to another edition of The Big 3 NBA Podcast, I'm with Gary Washburn, Quanie Luna
00:33still on the inactive list, Gary, we're going to have to start calling her Quanie Leonard.
00:40Man, when is she going to be back?
00:44Start calling her Joellen B.
00:46Exactly.
00:47Quanie and B.
00:48Yeah.
00:49It's been a minute.
00:50It's been a minute.
00:51Man, it's been a minute.
00:52It's been a minute.
00:53But the Trey got to keep moving, Trey got to keep moving because that's what we do.
00:58And the same thing applies to the Celtics.
01:00I mean, I had that, you know, really, I think, let's be honest and call it what it is.
01:04It was a bad loss to the Hawks, a Trey Youngless Hawks team, but they bounced back with a good
01:10win over Brooklyn.
01:11They sit at 10 and 3, second best record in the East to Cleveland.
01:16A big part of what they do, Gary, and you know this as well as anyone, is that three
01:21ball.
01:22They love the three ball, averaging more than 50 three-point attempts a game.
01:29How comfortable are you with them in that number, Gary?
01:32I mean, 53 is, damn, that's, I mean, how comfortable are you with them being able to win over the
01:37long haul shooting that many threes?
01:41I think it depends on the quality of the three, whether they're hunting them down or whether
01:46they're in the flow of the game and who's taking those threes.
01:51I don't mind if it's in the flow of the game.
01:53What I mind is when they start hunting them and then they give up opportunities to score
01:59at the rim.
02:00They give up opportunities to get twos for the sake of trying to get the home run ball.
02:06And that's what I think sometimes is their issue.
02:10But I think that the better their offense has gotten over the last couple of years,
02:14the better and more higher quality threes that they're taking.
02:18And in my opinion, I'm not, you know, stomping my feet like this is terrible, but I want
02:27them to take the most quality shots.
02:30Those shots are threes, but there's times like the other game against Brooklyn when
02:36Hauser was, I think, 0 for 9, 1 for 9, and he kept taking them down.
02:40He's a high-quality shooter, and he hit that 10th one, and it was a critical play.
02:47But I just think sometimes you might want to attack the basket.
02:51You might want to get to the free throw line.
02:54So that's the only problem I have.
02:57If you're going to be a three-point shooting team, you can't give up for the sake of being
03:01soft in the middle and not rebounding, things like that.
03:07So to me, I'm not, you know, angry with their three-point philosophy, but I do think they've
03:17got to mix it up a little bit more.
03:19And I think that they have two elite two-point shooters in Tatum and Brown, and it would
03:25not hurt every now and then to throw the ball into Kane and to throw the ball into Cornette
03:29and get an easy two or an alley-oop.
03:32Yeah, it just seems that there's a lot of heat checking when you ain't got no smoke
03:39going with these guys, just taking threes that you usually see taken after you've made
03:44a couple.
03:45But they seem to take, it feels like there's a lot more of the, you don't really need to
03:52take this three, do you, kind of shots from these guys as opposed to ones that seem to
03:56come about in the flow of the offense.
03:59But to your point, Gary, the thing that jumps out to me, and you really, I think you nailed
04:03it on the head, is that all this three-point shot taking, it's kind of made them a little
04:08soft in the middle.
04:09And I get it that you don't have Sporzingis, and I get it that Al Horford ain't that same
04:13guy that he was three, four, five years ago.
04:17But damn, I mean, it's, I mean, teams are looking like they punking him by taking away
04:23the middle, and without even trying hard to take it away.
04:30Totally.
04:31I mean, I felt like the Atlanta game was, first of all, I thought Joe got outcoached,
04:36okay?
04:37Because Quinn Snyder was like, the only chance we have to win is to make an ugly game, and
04:43then make it a game where the paint, so Clint Capella started eating, I always mispronounce
04:50his name, Oquandu.
04:51Oquandu, yeah, I know what you're talking about.
04:55Oquandu, I always mispronounce his name, no disrespect, I always butcher, there's certain
04:59names in the league, and that's one of them that I have trouble with.
05:02But he was just feasting in the paint, they got mismatches, and then Dyson Daniels, and
05:08I just think the one play that I wrote about this is when Keaton Wallace, like, it was
05:14117, I think it was like 117, or sorry, sorry, it might have been 161-13, and 40 seconds
05:23left, Atlanta needed a bucket, and he just drove into the paint, and kept going, it was
05:28like, is somebody going to defend me, and then they didn't, he just flipped it up and
05:32in, and I'm like, where's the rim protection, he literally looked stunned that nobody challenged
05:37him at the rim.
05:38And then it was, you know, obviously, the Celtics didn't score again, and Oquandu got
05:43the, sorry, got the tip for the winner, but to me, that was disturbing.
05:50And I think that, like you said, they got to get tougher in the paint, and I don't know
05:55whether it's, I don't know if Porzingis makes things different, whether he started playing
06:01Xavier Tillman a little bit more to lay some hat, you got to prevent guys like Dyson Daniels
06:06from just slicing into the paint, or going to the rim, and so they've got to send a message
06:11in that way.
06:13So I had no problem with the threes, but you can't, you can't just be a finesse team, and
06:19Atlanta was more physical, the Celtics were really sloppy with the ball, and Atlanta was
06:24like, the only way we have a chance to win is to punk you guys, and in the end, that's
06:28what they did.
06:29Yeah, and I think we're starting to see that's the strategy that teams are taking with the
06:34Celtics, that we can't out-shoot them, we can't out-athletic them, but we damn sure
06:39can put a hat on them and make them pay.
06:42I go back to the, you know, the Indiana game, you know, earlier this year, where the Pacers
06:47that were just a physically punishing team, you look at what Atlanta did, they were the
06:51more physically punishing team.
06:54I mean, I just wonder though, Gary, when I'm watching the Celtics play, at the beginning
06:59of the season, you know, I looked at them and I saw them being very different than the
07:03defending champions that I've seen in the past, but now, they look damn, they look a
07:08lot like defending champions of the past from the standpoint of, yeah, we're the champs,
07:14we know what this role looks like, and we know that we can get there and be the last
07:18team standing.
07:19But the difference between the great teams is that they don't play like that.
07:22They know that, they just don't play that way.
07:24The Celtics are playing as if they know that we don't really need to be super physical
07:29now, we don't need to do all those little things now, because we're going to be one
07:33of the best teams at the end of the day.
07:35And the way the East is just basically looking like Survivor out here, where only Cleveland
07:40and Boston are the only teams that are eating well, while everyone else is just eating scraps,
07:45they're not being pressed, record-wise, to clean up a lot of this stuff, because they're
07:50right there with Cleveland.
07:52How concerning are you that the Celtics, they may be kind of reverting back to some
07:57bad habits, the kind of habits that a lot of NBA championship teams have that year after?
08:01Yeah, the slow starts are a concern, 16-2 to Brooklyn, 16-2 to Milwaukee, and I think
08:07they kind of have this attitude like, we can come back on y'all, and they can, Miss Minnie
08:11Knights, and we can hit the three and we're going to out three you, but they're going
08:15to have to out-defend, out-rebound, and out-tough teams.
08:19And that's what I think that they're trying to get back.
08:22I think they've lost that a little bit, and I don't know what you do when you don't have,
08:28like Al Horford, like you said, was playing limited minutes this year, he's not an enforcer
08:32like that.
08:34Kata is out there, and he's doing some good things, but he's also making some mistakes
08:38and he can get in foul trouble.
08:40He's your only real enforcer out there, because they've stopped playing Xavier Tillman, the
08:45first six minutes of that Brooklyn game where he missed all, you know, because teams understandably
08:51are going to leave him open, like, no, Xavier, we don't trust you as a three-point shooter.
08:56You might hit one occasionally, he hit a big one during that game, three against the Mavericks
09:02in the finals in that corner, in front of the Mavericks bench, but teams are going to
09:07look at him and go, oh, shoot that, shoot that.
09:12And he's got to either A, start making them, B, he's not going to play because he's not
09:18stretching the floor, or C, Joker put him in there to be kind of an enforcer, a guy
09:23to lay a little bit of hat, give some hard fouls, make sure teams are just not slicing
09:28into the paint and laying it in and doing that pretty stuff.
09:32Like I just thought, you know, like Dyson Daniels just caused so much havoc in that
09:37game.
09:38Like, I saw him play in Atlanta and I tweeted out, like, wow, like, I saw him play for Team
09:44Australia in the Olympics, okay, he's always been a good defender.
09:48He was a, last year in New Orleans he was kind of a deer in headlights, he wasn't ready.
09:54But Atlanta's kind of unleashed him, where offensively he's become a force, not a force
10:00like a superstar, but a guy who can get you 16, 18 points, it's like, whoa, who is this
10:05guy?
10:06I mean, when he missed on defense, and when he pulled up and hit that elbow three in front
10:10of the Celtics' bench, I was like, with confidence, he was 0 for 4 before then.
10:15When he hit that, I was like, wow, this is a different player.
10:18And I just think the Celtics have to understand, and I think they do, that they're everybody's
10:23Super Bowl, right?
10:24They're everybody's Super Bowl, the Warriors played really well against them, but they're
10:29also, in all honesty, they lost to, in overtime, to Indiana, they lost by 6 to the Warriors
10:39in a game that they kind of let go, and they lost by 1 to Atlanta.
10:44So we're not talking about losing sometimes when they don't play well.
10:48They can play average and win.
10:51They played average, they played, what, two and a half good quarters against Milwaukee
10:58in one.
10:59Yeah.
11:00Yeah, maybe the second half of the quarter, in the second quarter, but they only cut like
11:07a 17-point lead to 11, so you can count that, and then the second half, and they were able
11:12to beat the Bucs.
11:13So to me, we're not talking about, oh, well, they're 10 and 3, yep, they're 10 and 3, second
11:19best worker in the East, one of the best workers in the NBA, like I think probably fifth or
11:24sixth.
11:25Oklahoma City's got two losses, and a couple other teams just have two losses behind Cleveland,
11:31but to me, they are good enough to play poorly and win.
11:38Yeah, they have, what, here, the fourth best record in the league behind Cleveland, Oklahoma
11:44City, and Golden State.
11:45So to me, they've got to address the toughness issue, the rebounding issue, even up the points
11:53in the paint, and figure out how to get more paint touches offensively to get out there
11:59and get those open threes.
12:01I don't have a problem if they're taking threes with those clean looks with their elite shooters
12:05with Peyton, but sometimes Peyton's getting to the point now where he's hunting them.
12:10You know, we want to, if you're in the Celtics, you want to chill on the hunting and Peyton,
12:15because I think Peyton's getting caught up in, oh, here's Peyton, oh boy, here we go.
12:21It's about to be a three, three fast.
12:22He's feeling himself.
12:23He's feeling himself.
12:24He's just throwing them up like pop a shot, and it's like, Peyton, pass the ball, get
12:31a good positioning, set your feet as opposed to, like, I think he's hunting a little bit
12:37too much.
12:38Sometimes Derek is hunting a little bit too much, and obviously, we all know Drew.
12:43Drew will take a pull-up three off the break, I mean, and then Jason, interesting game from
12:49Jason against Brooklyn.
12:51He took six threes, but hit five of them, right, attacked the rim, didn't take 13 or
12:5814 threes.
12:59He took six.
13:00Like, I think he needs to be a little bit more selective in the three-point line, but
13:05I like the way he played against Brooklyn, because I think he was a little bit off against
13:10Atlanta, but to me, I think they got little things to tie up, toughness, rebounding, points
13:19in the paint, maybe a little bit better selection in three-point shots, but I think they're
13:24okay.
13:25I mean, Jason's at 38%.
13:26Jalen from three, a little bit of a concern, under 30% at 29.5, Hauser at 32.8, but Hauser
13:35started slow last year, if you guys remember.
13:38He started slow last year, so that might be just kind of Hauser being a slow starter.
13:45If I recall, he had a real slump for about six weeks.
13:49It might not have been a start, but it was early, and it might have been like mid-November
13:53to January, then he picked it up, but other than that, they're hitting 30% as a team.
14:04That's a very good percentage.
14:06I think they're okay.
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15:25I'm still a little bit concerned about that center position and I know things in theory
15:29are going to change when Porzingis gets back, but you know, I'm looking at Keita, I'm looking
15:34at Luke, and you know, we're looking at Tim and doing what we do, which is watch a lot
15:38of the game, and I'm not feeling that great about these guys kind of holding a fort to
15:46Porzingis' back because the one thing that when you look at the teams that have beaten
15:50him have done is they've been the more physical team and Keita, you know, he's got physicality
15:56in his DNA, but he's still learning how to be a regular rotation guy, let alone a freaking
16:01starter.
16:02You know, Luke, you know, he's had some injuries that, a few more injuries and bumps and bruises
16:07than we're used to him having, and so you've got the situation where, you know, they have
16:12a, they went into the season with question marks at the center position, and we're, you
16:16know, we're a dozen plus games into this thing, and there's still question marks about their
16:22ability to man that position.
16:25Just Garrett, from your perspective, I mean, how big a deal is it that the struggles that
16:29they've had at that particular position on the floor?
16:32Well, Sharron, I think they can survive, especially when you get Porzingis back, but I think what
16:38we're learning is, like, Horford, you know, is going to be useful, but they're going to,
16:45it's going to be particular.
16:46Now, he's playing about 27 minutes a game, that's not bad, 8.6 points, 5.5, Horford's
16:52not, has not been bad, you know, and he's shooting 44% from three.
16:57Horford's giving you what you need, but you also have 22 other minutes in an NBA game,
17:02and you also have games that Horford does not play, because he's played in 11 of the
17:0713 games, because of rest, because of the back-to-back situation, so you're going to
17:11need Cata, and you're going to need Cornett to step up.
17:14Cata, I thought, had a really good stretch, the games in Charlotte, I thought he was good,
17:19I think he's learning, he had a good game, the game in Atlanta, you know, after a little
17:25slow start, he was good in Atlanta, but, like you said, Sharad, he's 25 years old,
17:32there's going to be a level of inconsistency, this is his first real, long-term, long NBA
17:40stretch here.
17:41I mean, this is a guy who's kind of been in the, he was in the Sacramento system, listen,
17:44let's look at his numbers, he played 15 games as a rookie, five in the second year of Sacramento,
17:50and 28 last year, okay?
17:53He's already in 12 games, and he's probably played more minutes this year than he did
17:59almost in his previous three years, he played 48 NBA games before this year, so that's barely,
18:08just over a half a season, so you're asking him, hey man, go in there and, you know, give
18:15us 25 strong ones, you know, give us 10 boards, give us a couple of blocks, and don't make
18:21any defensive errors, but that's not going to happen, he is going to have situations
18:29where he is going to struggle, he's going to struggle on defense, he's going to struggle
18:33on offense, as I wrote, you know, he doesn't have the greatest hands, I think there was
18:39a couple of games in Charlotte, in Atlanta, where they were trying to whip him the ball
18:43in the paint because they saw him open, and it's like, you got to kind of feed him methodically,
18:49you can't just fire it in there to Keita, because Keita doesn't have the greatest hands,
18:53and, you know, I'm sure once he gets more, you know, reps, his hands will be better,
19:03but he doesn't have great hands right now, so you got to feed him the ball slowly, so
19:07you can't maybe use him as a weapon like you did, like you'd like to, so for me, I think
19:14he's just, it's going to take time, Cornette's going to be Cornette as we know, I think he
19:18is who he is, he's going to make a block here and there, he's going to get scored the
19:23rim here and there, set a screen, that's about as best as you can expect, so if I'm the Celtics,
19:32you know, you sign Tillman to kind of be an enforcer, I think I would use him, but you
19:40cannot expect Tillman to be shooting threes, like can we scrap that right now, like can
19:45we scrap Tillman at the three-point line, you know, I just think everybody can't do
19:51everything, I think we all know that, Shirai, we've all seen bigs in this league try to
19:56become three-point shooters, I remember seeing my man Brandon Bass was trying to, you know,
20:02Brandon Bass was the perfect, yeah, I love Brandon, the consummate mid-range shooter,
20:08and he was, and he's kind of getting pushed out the league, and so he decided he was going
20:15to try shooting threes, and it just, and with his style, it just didn't work, right,
20:20and he doesn't need to, he didn't need to, so, you know, Tillman, in his Boston career
20:28so far, is 11 for 42 from the three-point line, okay, like, we, that's, that's, that's
20:37not good.
20:38No.
20:39Okay, that's about 26%, so can we stop the Tillman for three-thing, unless he just proves
20:47that he can knock him down from that, gets him in one spot, but I think this year he
20:52has struggled 26%, 26% from the field, 21% from the three-point line, but if you put
21:02him in positions to succeed, and Joe is good at doing that, make him an enforcer, make
21:07him lay some hat in the middle, hey, give some hard fouls, I think you'll get, get,
21:12squeeze something out of Tillman, as opposed to just relying strictly on Cata, and if you,
21:19you know, maybe Cornette, and I said, Al, I think is fine, but Al's years as a center,
21:27I think are over, I think he's a four, he's a stretch four, he's a guy, like, they're
21:31not putting him on centers defensively, you know, you know, he was, he was not guarding
21:38Nick Richards in Charlotte, like, they're putting him on fours, so, three or fours,
21:44so to me, I think you're just gonna have to, it might be time for a little bit more Tillman,
21:51but not from the three-point line.
21:54Interesting, interesting, because there's a clear and undeniable need for them to be
22:00a more physical team, and Tillman, when you look at that bench, as far as physically imposing
22:06is one of, if not the best option they have.
22:10It's interesting that, Gary, we're, I remember there were pockets last season where there
22:15were questions about just the Celtics and their toughness, their physical toughness
22:19and things of that nature, and it feels like that discourse is back, and there's some receipts
22:25to go with the questions about their physical toughness.
22:29Is it simply just a matter of just putting body on body, or are there other things they
22:32can do to just be a more impactful team from a physicality standpoint?
22:38I think the other guys also have to be physical, Jason, Jalen, I think they're on par with
22:42that.
22:43They also have to rebound, like, you can't let a team get 20 offensive rebounds, it's
22:47unacceptable.
22:48That's terrible, right?
22:49Terrible.
22:50Terrible.
22:51I love, I love rebounding, I love the Celtics, but that was terrible.
22:55Like, to me, you can't have that happen.
22:58And it was a one-time thing, I'm not saying, but they only allowed, I want to say, six
23:04against Brooklyn the next night, but Brooklyn wasn't really throwing the sides, Claxton
23:08was kind of the only big, Brooklyn was kind of playing five out, two at times, but Atlanta
23:14put them two horses in the paint, with Capella and Oquandu, and then said, what you going
23:20to do?
23:21Right?
23:22And then even had the kid, how do you pronounce the number one overall pick, Rasassier, I'm
23:27going to kill him.
23:28I'm going to get him.
23:29I'm going to just let you, I'm going to let you marry me.
23:31No, no, don't do that, man, help me out here, help a brother out.
23:35Young fella.
23:36Yeah, young fella.
23:39He was, he got boards, Jalen Johnson got 10 boards, so when your swingmen and your wings
23:49are rebounding, it makes you a much better ball club, and to me, those guys, the Jasons
23:56and Jalens, have got to step up, because you don't have, you don't have Andre Drummond
24:01out there, you don't have a dude gobbling up 15, 16 boards.
24:04Like Keita can do it here and there, Cornette's not a volume rebounder, neither is Horford,
24:09we'll see what happens when Porzingis comes back, but they're going to need, it's going
24:14to be a team situation, Drew, Derrick, get in there and get your nose dirty and get them
24:19boards.
24:20Quit worrying about getting the ball back down the floor and running the ball, get the
24:26rebound first, and then you can go out on offense, because I think too many times, guys
24:30are ready to run, and then here comes an offensive rebound, or one guy says, oh, I'm just going
24:39to run right up here and get the tip, or I can anticipate the ball better, and gets the
24:45rebound.
24:46I mean, I just remember the play against Atlanta, I want to say, where it might have been Larry
24:53Nance just getting an offensive rebound, and then him getting the ball back out in
24:56the corner, and hitting a three, I mean, I hadn't looked at Larry Nance's numbers.
25:02Yeah, he was on his fourth made three, right?
25:06No, no, no.
25:07Larry Nance, from the three-point line, entering that game, was nine for 13, and this fool
25:11went five for six, so this fool was 14 for 19 for the three-point line this season, like,
25:18Steph was like, damn, dude, you're a good three-point shooter, like, that's crazy, and
25:23it's in limited attempts, okay, I'm not calling him Steph, I ain't calling him Reggie Miller,
25:28Ray Allen, you know, I ain't calling none of them dudes, but that's crazy, Larry Nance,
25:33known for dunking on, like, dunking on, Brooke Lopez, and known for his ups, his turn and
25:40stuff, so that just shows you how this league is changing, and how it's changed, but to
25:45me, this doesn't have to be tougher, it's got to be a collective team effort, because
25:49you don't have that enforcer in the paint, and many teams don't have that guy, this is
25:54not the 90s, this is not the 2000, where you had, you know, you had Anthony Mason, and
26:01you had Rasheed, the young boy Rasheed Wallace, you had dudes in there that were just like,
26:07like, you had Kenyon Martin, you had dudes in there that were just, that was ready to
26:13throw hands, you don't have that anymore, and so, that's the way the league has changed,
26:17that's fine, but you've got to do, or our friend Steven Jackson, I love to give Captain
26:23Jack a shout out, you know, you didn't have them dudes that were just like, what's up,
26:28you know, like, it's my ball, or you're not laying this up, no layups, you know, so for
26:36me, I think they're gonna have to do it collectively, it's not going to be a one-man effort.
26:43Yeah, and when you talk about collective, more than one-man type efforts, you look at
26:50the Celtics team, and they've got, you know, easily one of, if not the best starting five,
26:55when they've got all their guys healthy, they showed that last season, and the fact that
26:58the band is back together, you know, obviously, they're still among the top groups, but their
27:03bench has been interesting this year, Jason Tatum, after a recent game, talked about the
27:08Celtics bench as the best in the league, you've seen a lot of teams play, as have I,
27:14would you consider them the best bench in the NBA?
27:18Well, I think they're pretty close, I mean, I think the team they saw earlier,
27:24Golden State's got to be up there, with all the guys they throw out there, because Steve
27:29Kerr is doing what he didn't do in the Olympics, and that's playing more than nine guys,
27:34you know, suddenly, Steve is hip to, like, using all of his talent, but Golden State,
27:41but I think, I think, yeah, like, they got one, because all of them, we talked about this
27:47earlier, have taken steps forward, Peyton Pritchard's taken a huge step forward,
27:51Stan Houser, off to a slow start, but is going to knock down the threes, we're looking at
27:58Luke Cornett and Anemius Keita, both have taken steps forward, Keita's been
28:03much more of an impact than I think any of us thought, beginning of the season,
28:08I think people thought he was going to be the number three center, but now, okay, that's fine,
28:12no, he's got some starts, he's playing major minutes of time, so I think, I think that they
28:19have a solid bench, I don't think they have, I don't know if it's a top bench in the league,
28:25but I do think that they have a lot of guys out there that can get some things done,
28:28Jordan Walsh has taken a step forward, he's not scoring a whole bunch, but he's playing a role,
28:34right, now, ask me, at the end of the year, it might be that Houser starts knocking down more
28:43shots, Walsh is a bigger contributor, you know, and he's comfortable with his minutes,
28:49Peyton Pritchard continues his six-man-of-the-year role, because he's averaging 16 points a game,
28:56I mean, that's pretty impressive for a guy coming off the bench, you know, and we'll see what
29:02happens when Porzingis returns and who goes to the bench, that makes the bench even stronger there,
29:07so I think there's a lot of reasons to like this bench, I don't think they're the best bench in
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30:40I would put them borderline top five. But I think, Gary, I think we've seen two teams,
30:45at least one team, and maybe a second, whose second unit is, I think, up to this point in
30:51the season has just been better. And at Golden State, they play damn near anyone that's getting
30:57a check, basically, on their roster. I mean, that's how impactful that their second unit has
31:04been. And that, frankly, has kept those starters, for the most part, honest. I mean, just because
31:08you start doesn't mean you're going to go out there and play 30, 35 minutes. They got seven
31:12miles coming off that bench that want to play, too. And Steve Kerr, I give him credit. He's
31:17figured out that I'm not going to be able to beat teams the way I've done it in the past.
31:21It's going to have to be by committee. We're going to have to get lots of different players
31:25to step up and contribute and, frankly, position them to win games. And that's what they've been
31:30able to do so far this year. They got one of the best overall records in the NBA. They've been
31:36tremendous contributions with lots of different players. And that second unit has been among the
31:41best scoring second units in the NBA this season, in large part because they play more than most
31:46second units do, as far as personnel. So you have a situation where the Celtics,
31:52while they might be getting good play from the second unit, I don't think they've been,
31:56they haven't elevated to the point where you look at them and think like, damn, they got him and him
32:00and him off the bench. To your point, Gary, Porzingis is the game changer. He becomes that
32:06one big presence that bolsters everything about this team. You're starting five, gets better.
32:13Your second unit gets better. Play calls by the damn coaches get better because you got
32:17another guy that's a major mismatch for the opponent out there that you can exploit on a
32:22game in, game out basis. They just got to find a way to hold down the fort until Porzingis is
32:29getting back, which we've heard everything from sometime next month, might be the start of the
32:362025 calendar year. But they've got to figure out ways for guys to be impactful until he gets back.
32:44In that second unit, they've done a solid job, but I would still say Golden State's second unit
32:50has been better. I'm looking at the leagues. The Celtics are 24th in the NBA in bench scoring.
33:00It doesn't mean that they have a bad bench. It means that they're probably not getting as many
33:04overall minutes as some of the other benches. Because if you look at the top,
33:11like the top 10 scoring benches in the NBA, we see one, two, three, four, only four of those
33:20teams have winning records. So Golden State, Memphis, which are one, two, Cleveland, 13 and
33:27oh, they're fifth in bench scoring. And then finally, Orlando's ninth, and they're seventh
33:31and sixth. The rest of the teams, Utah, San Antonio, Portland, Charlotte, Washington, Indiana
33:40are all teams who are either losing or at 500. So that means to me, when you look at bench scoring
33:46and bench production, a lot of those bad teams are playing all their guys because their starters
33:52aren't very good. The Celtics have probably the best starting five in the league. So that means
33:58more minutes for them and less minutes for the bench. However, I do think that they still have
34:02one of the top benches in the league, although Golden State is blowing anybody out of the water.
34:07They're averaging 58 points a game from their bench, which is crazy. 46% from the field,
34:15to me, that's impressive. But if I'm looking at the percentage, the shooting percentage,
34:22sorry, field goal percentage, the Celtics are still from their bench, oh boy.
34:28Golden State is up there.
34:3022nd.
34:31And Atlanta too.
34:33Yeah. Atlanta's the number one because they're putting in your boy Quandu and that dude scores
34:38at the rim. They're putting in bigs and them bigs score at the rim. So there's a reason for
34:43everything. But to me, just because they're 24th does not make them less. It just means they're
34:51not playing as many minutes because you got a great starting five. So to me, they still have
34:57a quality, very quality bench. I'm going to say Golden State. Memphis, probably so too,
35:04but they've had to play a lot of those guys because they've had so many injuries.
35:08Right. Absolutely. We're nearing the end of this, but before we get out of here,
35:12let's go around the league real quick. And we're just going to call this the big man
35:17segment. We're going to start with your boy, your boy, Joel Embiid, who sort of returned to
35:24the court, sorta. Man, $50 million don't get you what it used to, huh, G?
35:30No, I don't. It's that inflation, man.
35:35Damn, man. See, inflation is a man.
35:4150 don't take you as long as it used to. That used to last you a minute. Now, no.
35:45Man, 50 million looking more like 50 cent right now.
35:48Yeah, exactly.
35:49Damn. Make sense of this to me, Gary, because I don't get it. Make sense of what the hell is
35:57going on with Joel. I think it's probably a situation where he really wanted to play
36:03the Olympics, and I think he was probably somewhat healthy there. He did, and then he
36:09probably took time, shut it down in those critical months after the Olympics, mid-August all the way
36:16to probably mid-early October, and came into camp and was probably out of shape and was not ready.
36:23And I think that Philadelphia, knowing how important he is to the franchise, he's essential
36:30to the franchise. He just signed with a three-year $180 million extension, if I'm not mistaken.
36:37I just think they're like, we've got to do whatever it is to get him back on the floor,
36:41and if that means he misses the first 10 games or nine games, that's what we're going to have
36:46to do, because forcing him out there, what are you going to do? Push him out there,
36:51then he really looks bad and he really gets hurt, because the one thing you don't want is him
36:56tearing up one of those knees and having him have to have a year off. And at age 30, I think he's
37:02just turned 30. Him and Giannis are around the same age. A 30-year-old big man with a torn ACL
37:11or MCL or patella tendon ain't a good look, and that's career-threatening.
37:16So I think you got to bow down. You got to do whatever it takes to get him back on the floor.
37:22It's handled poorly. He should probably have not played in the Olympics if he was not healthy.
37:28I think the unfortunate part about Joel Embiid is, my opinion of him, is that he's a top 75
37:35player. I have not seen many bigs in the history of the NBA with his damn skill set, his ability
37:40to shoot the free throws, shoot the three, shoot for the mid-range, his touch. He's such a gifted
37:47player. I mean, God, dawg, just seeing him over the last seven, eight years now, being in Boston,
37:52you've seen him. When that dude's on, when he's right, he's so right. He's one of the top, to me,
37:59top five centers of all time, five to seven centers when he's right. I'm not talking about
38:06overall, when he's right. You put the Chamberlain, the Jabron, the Russells, the Lajawans,
38:12and you want to throw Ewing in there. Some people consider Tim Duncan. You could throw him in there,
38:18but Joel is in that conversation, top five, top 10, with his skill set. But he's just blowing it.
38:26You'll throw Shaq in there, too. He's blowing it because, and it kind of reminds me of Shaq,
38:30although Shaq was more later in his career, lack of conditioning.
38:36At 30, Shaq was winning championships and still in his prime with the Lakers. At 30,
38:43it beats breaking down. 30 is not promised. Everybody ain't LeBron. Everybody ain't
38:49going to play until 40. Your career is on the line. You might not be playing at 36.
38:56How many bigs besides our friend Robert Parrish played 36, 37? Centers don't get that. All that
39:04pounding on your knees, your hips, 289, 300 pounds, body pounding, that's not going to last.
39:13He is not Vince Carter where you're always in immaculate shape. It's sad that that's going to
39:20be his legacy, is not playing as much as he should. Because when he's right, when I see him,
39:26that dude scares teams. When he's on, he gets to the free throw line, he's got the great touch.
39:33It's not like Shaq. Shaq didn't have no mid-range game. Shaq didn't have that. Shaq was
39:39whoop, whoop, dunk. Beat has all the tools, all the tools in his tool bag. They just either don't
39:50want it, can't get in elite shape. It's sad because I think we all want to see him healthy
40:00three or four more years. Now you're 35, 36, it might be time to retire, but you're 30. You still
40:05got time left, but that's not a promise. We all remember our friend T-Mac. T-Mac at 30 was
40:12about done. His body said, I ain't got no more left. There's a lot of guys out there.
40:17Your friend, I mean, and he got in trouble. He got off the league because he was acting a fool,
40:22but Deion Waders talking about he can still drop 20 on teams. Is Deion Waders 30 years old? I
40:29probably just turned. He turned, he go three or four, and he's literally, sorry, he's 30. Oh,
40:40he's 32. Ooh, Lord. Okay. He was out the league by his best. He was out the league by 28.
40:53Like nothing's promised in this league, and I know he's going to be highly paid and Philadelphia's
40:59going to do whatever it can to keep him on the floor, but this is terrible. Then Paul George
41:04can't stay healthy. It's like the Sixers are just a mess. The Bucs are a mess. The Sixers are even
41:09a worse mess. And even Maxie, and that's not his fault. He put his hamstring in like, like, damn,
41:15like it's just, they're a mess. And that's, and beat is a central part of that.
41:21Yeah. Yeah. And then it's, and there's no signs or, or, or, you know, you know, exit ramps where
41:26you say, man, if they just do this, that'll make things a little bit better. They, they got to ride
41:30this out and hope that, that he can get right enough to help them, you know, make a little
41:36noise come playoff time. Cause then you know what happened in the regular season. I mean,
41:39they're going to, their, their goal really should be to just get to the playoffs and avoid the
41:42playing game at this point. If you're going to have your best player in and out of the lineup,
41:47the way Joel is going to be for health and load management and all that stuff.
41:53So that, that's an issue, but you know, Joel and the Sixers are trying to figure out,
41:58you know, exactly how to navigate him, his health. And, and unfortunately,
42:04Oklahoma city is doing a little bit of that of their own with Chet Holmgren and his injury and
42:08how that's going to keep him out for quite a while. Gary, how do you think that's going to
42:12impact that team, you know, in both the short and long-term short-term BSP in a regular mess,
42:18the rest of the regular season, long-term obviously is, is playoffs.
42:22Yeah. I mean, a pelvic bone, a very dangerous injury and, and Chet's not a big guy. And so,
42:30you know, you want to bring him back slowly in terms of just like, you don't want anything
42:34happening to him. And he's a little bit frail. He's had some injuries in his career and missed
42:38his entire rookie year. But Oklahoma city is going to need another big, Hardenstein is not
42:43back either, you know, so they're going to have to survive. The thing is they have all the assets
42:47to get anybody they want in there through a trade. I think we'll see in the next couple of weeks,
42:52how it all works out for the Thunder. They just have so much depth in the other positions though,
42:56you'd think they'd be fine, but they're still searching for that difference-making center.
43:02I know Hardenstein, I think he's probably about a few weeks out. I think he's supposed to be six
43:07weeks. So he's probably maybe late, late, late November, return early December. And you hope
43:14that works out for them. And then Holgren, I think probably it's going to be a couple of months
43:19on that injury. You know, you can sign, you know, there's guys like out on the street, you know,
43:25Bismarck, Biambo, guys like that. I'm not ripping Bismarck at all, but there's free agent centers
43:30on the street. I saw Dwight Howard was clamoring to go to Oklahoma city. Cause he's, he's trying
43:35to still try to play. I don't think that will go in that direction. However, you know, you can sign,
43:45you can start signing guys. I know the 10 day contract is going to come up in the next couple
43:49of weeks too. You know, you're just going to have to make do with, if you're the, if you're the,
43:54if you're the, if you're the Thunder, you know, they prepare for this, but they just,
43:59unfortunately injuries are part of the game and, you know, they're not a physical team.
44:06I think they can get by on being finesse. Yeah. Cause it's, it's so deep at so many different
44:12positions, you know, guys that, you know, that, that are just simply coming into their own right
44:17now, right before our eyes. And when you look throughout the NBA landscape, you talk and you're
44:23thinking about guys are going to come in their own. Wimby comes to mind, had became the fourth
44:30youngest player in NBA history to drop 50 or more the other night. And Gary, I mean, this guy came
44:39in with a tremendous amount of hype. The kind of hype that if you can just come close to living up
44:45to it, you've had a good career more likely than not. It seems the more you watch him play,
44:51the scarier he becomes because things are starting to slow down and he's starting to do things that
44:57I think for the rest of the league has got to bring a little bit of fear in your heart because
45:03he's really starting to assert himself as a guy who's not just, you know, a really good young
45:08player, just a really good player who just so happens to be young. What are your impressions
45:13of Wimby and what he's been able to do so far? So far, I mean, I think everything is
45:20he's better at everything, playing a little bit, a couple of more minutes a game. It's
45:26field goal percentage is up slightly. His three-point shooting's up about a percentage
45:30and a half, almost two percent. Free throw shooter, he's a better free throw shooter,
45:3587 percent. Pretty impressive there. Rebounds about the same. Assisted slow down the blocks,
45:433.6 to 3.8, and he's getting a steal, 1.3 steals, so and only getting two fouls a game,
45:51so he's not getting, he's not a guy prone to fouling. He's scoring, you know, he's only
45:57playing 31 minutes a game, so it's not like he's playing 38. There's a guy probably his age,
46:02what I know, San Antonio, is bringing him off slow, but he's making that jump. He's not making
46:07that dramatic jump, but he's making that jump, and obviously, a 50-point game, you know,
46:18what can you say about this guy? You know, it's just going to be a matter of time before it's
46:22his league. I think everybody knows that. He has the right attitude. He wants to win. He plays hard.
46:28I don't think he's out there trying to jersey swap after every game and take dude's sneakers
46:34and sign them and all that. He's not doing that stuff. He's a killer, and that's a great thing
46:41for him, and I think it's just a matter of time when San Antonio builds a team around him,
46:45and they're 6-6. The Spurs aren't bad. You know, they're not good, but they're not bad.
46:51They got a chance of that playing. I think that's good for him to be just that guy,
46:57and I think he's comfortable with that role, and I think he's going to be fine.
47:01Yeah, yeah. Wimby is certainly all that, and then some. When you think about the top players,
47:06not just top young players, but top players in general, he's been that impactful
47:10without question. Well, that is it for this week's episode of...
47:15Hold on. Hold on. That's not it. Big game on Saturday. Big game on Saturday.
47:22The brawl for it all. Syracuse and Cal. What? 3 p.m. Eastern,
47:29noon Pacific time for you guys on the West Coast who follow us. It's the brawl for it all.
47:36Washburn against Blakely. Cal, let's go. We're trying to get Bowl eligible, so a huge game,
47:44huge game for Bragg and Wrights for a whole 12 months. We're in the same conference now,
47:50so let's go, Bears. That's all I wanted to say. I know. Sorry. Sorry,
47:55Sherrod. Y'all had to come to Boston and take an L. That's terrible. Terrible.
48:01Gary. Come on.
48:04Take the L, but big game on Saturday. We'll see what happens, but yeah, let's go, Bears.
48:13You talk about Cal like they nice. Listen.
48:17We could have been undefeated. Let's not talk about what could have been.
48:22If we had a capable kicker, we could be undefeated right now, and I only want to
48:28talk about their Miami game, but we're going for Bowl eligibility, and we got the Orange,
48:34and I'm sure Syracuse will show out. I'm sure there's a lot of Qs fans on the West Coast that
48:39will come on out for that game, so it should be a great environment. I just know that y'all
48:44trying to be Bowl eligible. We there. We already checked that box off, so
48:51we're good no matter what happens. Smashing y'all would be better, but we're good regardless,
48:57so let's hope that y'all can get one more win this year so that y'all can join us
49:02among the Bowl-eligible fraternity. Hopefully, y'all can join us. Yes. You're right. You're
49:08right. Because, Gary, we got the Velvet Road. We're on the other side of the Velvet Road,
49:12and we're looking at you like, hey. All right. We'll be in a second, too.
49:18So y'all just stand in line, and maybe y'all get over the Velvet Road and get into the club like
49:23we are. Maybe y'all might get that season. Man, look at here. Golden, the Cal Cubbies. Man,
49:31look at here. Y'all trash. Y'all trash. On that note, we're going to get out of here. Thanks for
49:37tuning in to another edition of the Big Three NBA podcast. For Gary Washburn and those Cal
49:43Cubbies, we're going to catch a fat L in the crib this weekend. It's Rob Blakely, and we are out.