MìLà was founded by Jennifer and Caleb Liao and provides restaurant-quality dishes for people to eat at home. From food to how it intertwines with culture, the modern Chinese food brand uses design, videos, influencers, and more, to help tell a story that honors heritage while taking it into the future.
The brand started as a brick-and-mortar shop in Washington, but soon expanded into selling frozen, direct-to-consumer products in 2020. They now offer a selection of soup dumplings, sauces, noodles, potstickers, and ice cream.
Part of MìLà’s storytelling north star led them to powerful partnerships with the likes of Uncle Roger, Simu Liu, and others. This helps them to tell their story to even more people.
Watch now to learn about learning to start a food business, amplifying modern Chinese food, and partnering with Simu Liu.
The brand started as a brick-and-mortar shop in Washington, but soon expanded into selling frozen, direct-to-consumer products in 2020. They now offer a selection of soup dumplings, sauces, noodles, potstickers, and ice cream.
Part of MìLà’s storytelling north star led them to powerful partnerships with the likes of Uncle Roger, Simu Liu, and others. This helps them to tell their story to even more people.
Watch now to learn about learning to start a food business, amplifying modern Chinese food, and partnering with Simu Liu.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Welcome to Restaurant Influencers, presented by Entrepreneur.
00:09I am your host, Sean Walchef.
00:10This is a Cali BBQ Media production.
00:13In life, in the restaurant business, and in the new creator economy, we learn through
00:18lessons and stories.
00:19I want to give a special shout out to Toast, our primary technology partner at our barbecue
00:23restaurants in San Diego, for believing in storytelling, for giving us the opportunity
00:28to partner with Entrepreneur, to share incredible stories, not just in the restaurant hospitality
00:33space, but in the creator economy, and in the D2C community, direct to consumer.
00:39Today, I'm really excited because we get to learn from one of the masters, somebody that
00:46is doing the work that we teach on this show, which is thinking outside of the traditional
00:52restaurant business.
00:53Today, we have the co-founder, Jennifer Liao, of Eat Mila.
00:58You can find them at eat.mila.
01:00Jen, welcome to the show.
01:03Thank you so much for being here.
01:04Thank you so much for having me.
01:06I absolutely love everything that you guys do from a storytelling perspective.
01:12The fact that if you go to their Instagram account, you can find deep storytelling, not
01:18just with Jen and Caleb.
01:20You can follow at Jen.Caleb, which is a new channel, I believe, that they've launched.
01:27They're doing the things that we talk so much about on this show, and that's thinking
01:31differently about running your restaurant business.
01:33Jen, can you bring us back to the first restaurant?
01:37Yeah.
01:38So we actually opened our first restaurant called Xiaozijie, XDJ for short.
01:43It's a mouthful.
01:44We opened that October 2018, and really for us, we had wanted to bring to life a concept
01:52of our favorite food that we couldn't have a good version of in the US.
01:56It's called Xinjianbao, which is a pan-fried soup bao from Shanghai.
02:01I would say it is the tastier cousin of soup dumplings, but not very widely known and pretty
02:06difficult in culinary preparation.
02:09So we really had opened this with the idea of having a focus on a single food, doing
02:14it really well so that we could eat it whenever we wanted to.
02:17So definitely kind of born out of selfish desires there.
02:22And then after a year and a half, COVID obviously happened, and that's when we started to explore
02:28other options of what we could do to support the business, and then also during our three-week
02:34shutdown of the restaurant, what we could do during that time.
02:37Can you share a little bit about, give me a story about opening the restaurant?
02:42Because we have so many restauranteurs that listen to the show.
02:44We have potential people that want to open up restaurants.
02:47We have people that are scaling their restaurant from one location to two, or maybe from three
02:51to four, or we have large restaurant groups.
02:54Can you bring us back to that origin story, something that you remember on opening day?
02:59Yes.
02:59So for us, I think, like I said, we really just wanted to taste this food.
03:05And actually, we, Caleb and myself, did not come from the food or restaurant industry.
03:12So I myself was in health tech and Caleb was in finance.
03:16So no kind of experience whatsoever in this.
03:19And when we had come up with the concept to begin with, we also didn't have a network
03:24of chefs or cooks or anyone really in the restaurant industry.
03:29So we actually had asked our friends, like, do we know any good chefs?
03:33Do we know any good cooks?
03:34Do we know any aspiring chefs?
03:36And they pointed me in the direction of someone that I had actually known in college.
03:42So I reached out.
03:43I said, hey, I heard you cook a lot for groups and you love to do this.
03:47I know you're a Microsoft project manager right now, but have you ever considered a career change?
03:53And he had said, wow, I can't believe your timing.
03:57I literally just quit a month ago.
03:58I wanted to pursue something in the culinary space and I was planning on enrolling in school.
04:04And I said, OK, well, given that we know no one in this space, I don't even know how qualified you are.
04:10But what do you think about our concept?
04:13So we kind of pitched this idea of a night market hawker stall type of concept.
04:19He's actually Korean by background and we wanted to do Chinese food, but we didn't really have another option.
04:26And we tasted his food.
04:27It was delicious.
04:29And I think just like the way he thought about food really clicked for us of like how he described the flavors, how you taste it,
04:36what you focus on and the balance of like taste plus technique.
04:40So we said, OK, well, what if we booked you a ticket to China to go learn the item that we're interested in?
04:48So we actually booked it a week after the first conversation and sent him to China.
04:53He does not speak Chinese and booked an Airbnb.
04:59He just used Google Translate essentially to get around.
05:01And we used our network through our family to try to find people who knew people in restaurants there that could get them into a kitchen that need this specific product.
05:11So it was very by the seat of our pants.
05:13We did not have a return ticket.
05:14We said, stay there until you get to know it.
05:16And he went to we like knew which store, though, we wanted our North Star prototype to be like.
05:23So he went and ate there every single day while he kind of interned in kitchens at other places.
05:30So basically that happened for about two and a half months.
05:34And then he gave us a call and he's like, I think I got it.
05:36Like, OK, we'll bring you back.
05:38So we brought him back.
05:40We did a little backyard barbecue and had him make it for everyone.
05:43And it was 100 percent spot on when he brought it back.
05:47And we're like, OK, I think we're in business.
05:49This is the exact food we want.
05:51We don't really know too much about the unit economics of things, but let's just plan to at least be break even or like earn the dollars back and be break even and launch this with this one singular concept.
06:06So that was our whole idea.
06:08And then we put a lot of our savings in it and then we raised a friend and family around to round out the rest of it.
06:17And we got a pretty good deal on TI from the landlord.
06:20So that was favorable for us.
06:23And it actually took about a year and a half to open all the way just with like permitting, construction, concept, look at different locations and whatnot.
06:32So it's a really, really long process.
06:35But essentially, that's how it happened.
06:37And then on opening day, we actually did a soft opening, didn't advertise it anywhere, didn't have any signs up other than on the window saying soft opening.
06:46And somehow there was a line out the door by the end of the day.
06:50So I think that was the moment where like, whoa, I think maybe we're on to something.
06:55It seems like other people want this food.
06:58I don't even know how the word spread at that moment.
07:01But I think that was just such a gratifying moment of like, we have something that people want.
07:07There's product market fit, even though it's a small local location.
07:11And let's just like keep running with this.
07:15XCJ, small eat street.
07:17How do you say it in Chinese?
07:19Chatsujie.
07:21Chatsujie?
07:22Yeah.
07:24Go through the rebrand with me.
07:27Yes.
07:28So, I mean, I think this name thing was a big piece of it.
07:34So when we opened the first location, really the concept was street food.
07:39And it was for local people who knew about it.
07:42And it was a very specific target market of like Chinese people who knew the street food that wanted to get it.
07:48As we went into DTC in 2020, we started to expand.
07:52And I think, one, we started to do soup dumplings, which is like borderline street food.
07:58It's dim sum more like.
08:00And then we wanted to look at rice bowls, noodles, skewers, like a whole slew of different Chinese foods.
08:07And so we felt like the name itself didn't really capture the broadness of what we wanted to go for at that point anymore.
08:14And I think it was very difficult, obviously, on SEO and for word of mouth for people to share what this is.
08:21Even the acronym of XCJ, everyone spelled it XJC, CJX, X something company.
08:27And like you cannot run an online e-commerce business that way.
08:31And so we thought about our rebrand.
08:34I think it was actually early 2021.
08:37We did it early 2022 at that point.
08:41We didn't actually do the rebrand until last year.
08:44It was in March 2023.
08:46So it took over a year again to go through a rebrand rename.
08:50And for this, we wanted to choose a name that was more representative of us.
08:55And actually, we had our first son.
08:58But when I was pregnant, we didn't know if it was a girl or a boy.
09:01And we would have named her Mila if it was a girl.
09:04And since it was a boy, we kind of said, oh, like this name could work for the restaurant as well or for the e-commerce business.
09:13Essentially, it means sweet and spicy or honey and spice, which is perfect for a food concept.
09:20We loved how personal it was to us.
09:22And it's something that means something in Chinese and in English.
09:26And it embraced that duality, that third culture piece for us, which was really important in us in capturing a name.
09:34So that's why we went with Mila.
09:37And it took over a year to basically look at all the assets, look at all of the imagery and brand, have it.
09:45We wanted something that would carry through what resonated with people before, because I think our branding was also pretty strong, even as XCJ.
09:53And we went with like collage elements plus bold colors and refreshing colors.
09:59And we brought that through to the new brand, but figured out, like, how can we expand it and make it more accessible?
10:06Do not skip this ad.
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10:45Well, I have a huge bias towards your name because we named our daughter Mila.
10:51Oh, amazing.
10:52My wife is Bulgarian and her mother's name is Milanka.
10:55So we named our first daughter Mila.
10:57And obviously, huge, huge fan of the name.
11:01It also means sweetness in Bulgarian.
11:03So there you go.
11:05Wow, that's amazing.
11:07It's a global phenomenon.
11:08I love that.
11:09I would love to talk a little bit more about story.
11:13One of the things that I love about your branding is how much you incorporate culture,
11:18story, old photos into new elements.
11:21Can you share a little bit about why you do that and how you do it?
11:24Yeah, I mean, I think to begin with our first brand, XCJ,
11:31we had started more with impersonal photos, collage elements.
11:35Stock?
11:36Yeah, stock photos.
11:38But I think it was like, you know, communist China, Maoist era type of photos,
11:43because I think people really associate that with street food and grunginess of China.
11:48And so, like, that's what we had started with.
11:50And in the rebrand, we wanted to capture this piece of, like,
11:53we are taking our heritage and that vintage piece,
11:57but we are basically putting that and embedding it at the heart of our brand.
12:01But then we're expanding beyond it.
12:03So we're not stuck in the past or what's traditional and we can go beyond it.
12:08So then we have, like, old elements plus new elements combined together.
12:12So a lot of the images now are actually all people related to the company.
12:18So on our soup dumpling bag, it is my mom.
12:21And it is also her friend who helped us fold dumplings in the restaurant in the very beginning.
12:26So it's kind of a personal thing around that.
12:30And then we have had someone else, another employee and team member, his childhood photo on it.
12:38We have another team member in the current state on it.
12:40We have someone else's kids on it.
12:42So it's just like this really personal touch for us to be able to capture, you know, like,
12:48if it is somebody in the present, they are wearing clothes that, like,
12:51their grandparents wore and they're styling it a little bit differently in a modern era.
12:56And these are all, like, small details that I think no one else really necessarily picks up on.
13:01But for us, that's, like, the core and North Star piece of it,
13:05to be consistent around how we're incorporating the different elements
13:09because of this piece of honoring heritage, but then also evolving into the future.
13:16So we're huge Ryan Reynolds fans here.
13:18And for the content that we do, obviously,
13:21the storytelling aspects of who he is as a marketer and a business owner.
13:25But can you share the story about your chief content officer?
13:29Who is he? How did you meet him?
13:32How did you get him cooking the line at Coachella?
13:35Yes. So Simu Lear is our chief content officer.
13:39And we, during our first investment round for Mila,
13:44the investors found somebody who found somebody who got in touch with his manager
13:49and were able to send him a package.
13:51But it actually was consumed by his parents first.
13:54So he didn't even taste the product,
13:56but his parents liked it so much and approved of it that he's like,
13:59okay, I got to put, like, a small check in.
14:02So he put a small check in and then we basically just chased him down for a year,
14:06trying to get a meeting.
14:08Really?
14:09Yes.
14:09Awesome.
14:11So it was like, I would email his manager every single time we were traveling to LA
14:16or somewhere else to say, hey, is he in town? Is he available?
14:19And if not, like, I'll meet with you.
14:22So finally, after a year, it lined up and we got together for a lunch.
14:26And I don't think either side necessarily had a plan going into it,
14:30but we just started to talk about, like,
14:32what we really hope to achieve with our different brands on, like, a general level.
14:38And that aligned so well.
14:39And he seemed to be really interested in just, like, the business aspects of it,
14:43not just like, hey, can I do a campaign? Can I sponsor you?
14:46And so we started to talk more deeply about what an involvement,
14:51an involved engagement would look like.
14:53So that's kind of how that deal came to be.
14:57And for us, I think we just, you know, like every employee, team member,
15:03chief content officer, they are major equity holders in the company.
15:08And so you want them to be motivated.
15:11You want them to understand what's happening at the business.
15:14And so we bring everyone along the journey.
15:17That's kind of what we do internally as well.
15:19So with Simu, we also talk about, like, our board meetings,
15:22all of our numbers, ideas around campaigns,
15:26just to have him, like, be very activated on what it means to be involved in the business.
15:32So for Coachella, we were obviously there as a booth,
15:36and then he was attending as a guest. We're like, oh, can you drop by?
15:39Like, it would be really fun for you to be at our booth for a second.
15:43And he's very hands-on, so he loves the idea.
15:46And it, you know, evolved into some great pieces of content pretty organically.
15:51It's absolutely incredible. I love all of the stuff that you guys do together.
15:56I think I probably found your brand maybe through a piece of his content in the beginning.
16:01Can you share a little bit about when you have people that are collaborating with you
16:06that buy in on that deep level?
16:07I mean, you have Uncle Roger in his Instagram bio.
16:13He lists, like, literally on the second line, his favorite dumplings is Eat Mila.
16:18Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes.
16:20So this one also was, like, we sent him a package.
16:25He really liked the product.
16:27And then I think he lived in London at the time, and I also happened to be in LA for a meeting.
16:32And so we made it happen, and we sat down for a lunch and got to talking.
16:37And I think we're just, like, ultra transparent about our business, generally speaking.
16:47I think that's just how you get people on board and interested in what's happening.
16:51He was a data analyst before, so a data scientist before.
16:56So we talked a lot about data and looking at trends and how you see where it's going.
17:00And I'm like, okay, well, soup dumplings, here's the Google trends that we see,
17:03and Google search words, and here's how it's growing, and here's how the market is growing.
17:08And so I think he was interested in that aspect of it.
17:12And then I think there was a lot of synergy in how we could talk about Chinese food.
17:18And I think he was really interested in doing collaboration at some point on a product.
17:23So we actually released Why So Weak noodles very recently.
17:28Creamy chili crab noodles were going to do a second run very soon as well.
17:33But I think on that level, he's like, okay, I'm a comedian, but also a data scientist.
17:39And I'm also interested in the business aspect.
17:41How do we kind of, like, bring that all together into something where it's, like, intellectually interesting and can fulfill that curiosity?
17:51And I think because we're so flexible as an early stage startup, we're able to do some of these custom things with people.
17:58I'm sure as we scale, it'll get a lot harder.
18:00And then maybe it does evolve into, like, campaigns and sponsorships.
18:04But at least right now, it feels like it's so important to, again, have these, like, major equity owner stakeholders really bought into the idea that you have.
18:15I think it's incredible to see what you've done pursuing.
18:21I think that's the entrepreneurial dream is, like, we see these creators or these collaborators or, you know, in some cases, movie stars, comedians that you would love to work with.
18:31And people don't know where to start.
18:33But where you started was just that was an idea, and you pursued it.
18:37Like, you sent the email.
18:38You found it.
18:39You tracked it down.
18:40You took the time and the persistence.
18:42And you never know what's going to happen.
18:44Maybe something doesn't happen, but maybe something magical does.
18:48I think it is also not just for this partnership, but for the rest of the business.
18:54It's also being realistic on the pulse of what's working or not working.
18:59Because I think, like, we have talked to a lot of different celebrities or public figures.
19:05And you can tell sometimes it's just, like, not the right thing for them.
19:09And it's more about the deal or the dollars, for example.
19:13And in that case, like, if we had the dollars, sure, we could go that route.
19:17But right now, we're a startup.
19:19So it's not just about, like, the monetary value that's exchanged as a transaction.
19:25And so feeling that of, like, okay, there is organic interest.
19:30Let's pull on this thread.
19:32Or it's like a, okay, this is a pure transactional deal.
19:36Like, what is the outcome we want to achieve from that?
19:38And do we want to pursue it in that way?
19:40So for partnerships, I think it's, like, being really realistic about that.
19:45And if you feel that there's a thread, keep pulling on that persistently.
19:48And I think that applies to the business as well.
19:50Where, like, for us, we got so lucky with our product market fit.
19:55Where the first product we tried, there's high demand.
19:57We've tried a couple other ones that don't have the same kind of organic interest.
20:02It requires a lot more education.
20:04And then there's a choice to make, right?
20:06Of, like, do you want to put in the effort to educate the market?
20:09And you just know it's not right there yet.
20:11So there isn't product market fit, but you're creating product market fit.
20:15And putting in that effort.
20:17And how much do you put into it?
20:19But being realistic that it's not there yet.
20:21Or, like, feeling that thread of, okay, there's something natural here.
20:25How do we, like, lean into this and keep going?
20:28And, like, expand that and scale it.
20:30So I think that's just been super important as an entrepreneur.
20:34To, like, identify which one it is and be realistic about it.
20:38Can you share your Costco story?
20:41Like, the beginnings of, like, this is actually could be a thing?
20:46Yes.
20:47So for Costco, this one is actually quite interesting.
20:53Essentially, I think there were several avenues of reach-outs.
20:58And we have several connections within Costco.
21:01But we're Seattle.
21:03And it's a Seattle-based company.
21:05So we do have the CFO as an angel investor.
21:10Because he did taste the product and he really liked it.
21:13So I think that's, like, one thread that we saw.
21:17But again, you know, he's not in charge of the product.
21:20They have a huge hierarchy.
21:22So it's helpful in terms of knowing who should you talk to?
21:26How does it work?
21:27Understanding the inner workings of it.
21:29But he's not necessarily, like, saying, okay, because I'm invested, you're getting in.
21:34Like, that is his whole, you know, its own work stream on it.
21:39But it opens the door.
21:40And I think everything is about how do you find that entry point.
21:44And then, so you have an entry point.
21:46And then it's about delivering on it.
21:48And so then we're like, okay, we do product tastings.
21:52We do cuttings with other products that are similar to ours.
21:56And we show them, is there a difference or not?
21:58Like, you be the judge of that.
21:59But here's what we've noticed, for example.
22:02And then once you get in for them, it is about volume and scale.
22:06So how can you serve volume and scale consistently and maintain a high-quality product?
22:13Because a lot of their value is, like, how do we serve value but quality products?
22:18And our consumers continue to trust us to source the best, but also bring the best price to them.
22:25And so I think that is, like, the core of everything that they do.
22:29And it translates to everything that they do.
22:31And understanding that when you talk to them and promise what you can deliver or not is just so important.
22:37Like, if you're saying, hey, we can do an entire region, but then you run out, that can hurt your brand.
22:44Or if you're saying, oh, we can do eight weeks, but we can only do 10 stores.
22:50And these are the 10 stores that we think will perform the best.
22:54Then you're showing them that, like, okay, we understand our customer.
22:57Here's the data points, and we can prove it out and validate it.
23:02And that gives you confidence to keep expanding.
23:04So it's, like, right-sizing the opportunity from the very beginning.
23:09But for us, I think Costco Seattle did really well for us.
23:14It's our core area. I don't even know how people are so activated, but they're showing up, buying it by the case.
23:21Because they're like, we know it's not on the shelves for very long, so we need to hoard all of it.
23:27So it's kind of amazing to see that community show up.
23:31Can you share for the restaurateur that's listening, one of the things I love,
23:35the fact that you and your husband started your own Instagram channel.
23:39It's hard to run a business, to do all the things that you do,
23:43but to also do the content and also do the storytelling, also kind of make fun of yourselves along the way.
23:49Can you share where did that come from and any advice to somebody?
23:53That's why we put on this show.
23:54I mean, we're a barbecue business that turned into a media company,
23:58and we started pulling on that thread of figuring out what are the things that we do best.
24:02And now, all of a sudden, we have this other entire business where we're having incredible conversations with you.
24:07But we want to encourage our listeners to think beyond the four walls of their restaurant.
24:12Can you share a little bit about why you guys are making that approach to telling your own personal story?
24:17Yeah, so actually, I think for our main account, it was Caleb and I running it in the very beginning.
24:24The content looks terrible. You can definitely tell when we have real people who are doing things that they know, which is great.
24:33But I think also somehow in the last year and a half, as we've scaled, we've done polls of like,
24:41hey, are you interested in recipe content, soup dumpling content, behind the scenes content, founder content?
24:47And founder content is, there's interest, but it's still a minimal part of the audience that we've acquired on our main page.
24:55And yet it feels like so many of our core customers, like that's what they're there for and have connected to is the story piece of it.
25:04And so it didn't feel appropriate to like have that on our main page necessarily.
25:10And so we had this secondary account, which we intended to be more active on, but we're not super, super active on right now.
25:18But that allows us a different avenue of storytelling of like who we are and behind the scenes pieces that are not polished and not necessarily about food or recipe content.
25:29And we can do that in a little bit of a different way.
25:33And I think for the content pieces that we do execute with the team, it's finding the right cadence sometimes.
25:40Because like if we're, content is really hard.
25:43Like I really appreciate people who do content, like finding the concept, briefing it out, pulling it all the way through, making it feel organic, all the edits and cuts.
25:53Like it's just so much.
25:55And I think for us, for myself at least, I've discovered it's really hard for me to write out a script and it's much easier if somebody's asking me questions.
26:06So then we'll choose a topic and we'll talk about like, hey, here are the things that we want to cover or what is the most interesting and here are the arcs.
26:15And then we ask them in questions so that I can answer it, for example.
26:19And it's finding that format that really works for us.
26:23And I think that's really what we wanted to focus on, on that piece of it.
26:28And I think there's a lot of inspiration behind your customers.
26:34So we take a lot of what people are already asking and then we try to answer that.
26:38Like that's what they're most curious about.
26:39They're explicitly telling you what they want to hear about.
26:42And so I think you can draw on reviews, on questions, on complaints.
26:47Like all of those, I think, are probably your most valuable things to look at for content.
26:53That's amazing.
26:54I hope you guys start putting more of that Jen and Caleb content on LinkedIn.
26:59LinkedIn is an incredible playground and I would love to see more of that stuff.
27:03I don't know who you need to tell on the team to publish over there, but please take it because you guys are doing incredible things.
27:12I'm so grateful that you joined us on the show.
27:14What's the best place for people to connect with you and the brand?
27:18Yeah, our Instagram handle is eat.mila and then our website is eatmila.com.
27:25And we look at tickets and DMs constantly.
27:29That's awesome.
27:30And if you guys want to connect with me, it's at Sean P.
27:33Walcheff, S-H-A-W-N, P-W-A-L-C-H-E-F.
27:37Instagram's the quickest, but you can find me on all the platforms.
27:40We appreciate you listening to the show.
27:42We hope you enjoy some Mila food. Tag us.
27:46Let us know that you had it and we're so grateful to have you on the show.
27:50If you ever need anything, if you guys ever make it to San Diego, please come down for some barbecue.
27:54We would love to host you and that goes for anybody listening to the show.
27:57We appreciate you. Stay curious.
27:59Get involved and don't be afraid to ask for help.
28:02We will catch you guys next week.
28:05Thank you for listening to Restaurant Influencers.
28:08If you want to get in touch with me, I am weirdly available at Sean P.
28:12Walcheff, S-H-A-W-N, P-W-A-L-C-H-E-F.
28:17Cali Barbecue Media has other shows.
28:20You can check out Digital Hospitality.
28:22We've been doing that show since 2017.
28:24We also just launched a show, Season 2, Family Style on YouTube with Toast.
28:30And if you are a restaurant brand or a hospitality brand
28:33and you're looking to launch your own show, Cali Barbecue Media can help you.
28:37Recently, we just launched Room for Seconds with Greg Majewski.
28:42It is an incredible insight into leadership, into hospitality,
28:47into enterprise restaurants and franchise, franchisee relationships.
28:52Take a look at Room for Seconds.
28:54And if you're ready to start a show, reach out to us.
28:57Be the show dot media.
28:59We can't wait to work with you.