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00:00I'm joined on the set by Cynthia Luz, who's a journalist, a gender specialist, and the
00:04founder of the Women's Voices.
00:05Cynthia, thank you for coming on the set.
00:07You were in Avignon last week.
00:09You followed the trial for several days, not just outside, but also inside the courtroom.
00:13What was it like listening to some of the many defendants on the stand?
00:17Yes, I was in Avignon last week for several days, and the atmosphere was really tense.
00:25The courtroom is not very big.
00:28So on one side you have all of the many defendants, you know, there are 51, with 35 lawyers on
00:36one side, and on the other side you have Gisele Pellicot with her two lawyers and a few journalists.
00:43So it was really shocking.
00:46And you know, outside the court, what we can observe also, you go out for a break at lunchtime.
00:53There's only two restaurants, and we're crossing the guys, the accused men, rapists.
01:00So it's really stressful to be inside.
01:04And it's really also very shocking to hear their defense.
01:08Well, you were saying that you were shocked by what you described, the omnipresence of
01:12rape culture in the courtroom.
01:14I mean, tell us about their defense and what kind of things they said in their defense.
01:19Yes, you know, the accused men have different backgrounds, but they have also various criminal
01:28records.
01:29Many of them were accused of domestic violence previously, incest.
01:35Many were convicted for theft, most of them denying the rape, showing no willingness of
01:43taking responsibility for the actions.
01:48And they all claim that they believe that they were part of a consensual, libertine
01:56couple game.
01:58Gisele Pellicot was heavily sedated.
02:02She was sleeping once one man said that he thought maybe she was dead.
02:10So I don't really understand what is this kind of defense.
02:15Also maybe I can add that most of the men were not very educated.
02:22And I found that very suspicious that they're using all the same terms as the game of libertine
02:32couple.
02:34You also got a chance to speak to Gisele Pellicot when you were there very briefly.
02:38Tell us about that.
02:39Yes.
02:40You know, I wanted to give also a support.
02:45I went to the protest in the beginning of September with many feminists, many victims
02:50also.
02:51We were a thousand gathered in Paris, but also in different cities in France.
02:58And I really want to show her that we are here for her.
03:03This trial is obviously the trial of this man, but also, as you mentioned, the trial
03:11of rape culture.
03:13And I think it was really important to tell that she say, thank you.
03:18It's helping me a lot.
03:20And I wanted to share this message that all women in France are behind her.
03:27So you talk about this notion of rape culture in France.
03:30Is that something you think truly exists throughout the country?
03:33Yes.
03:34You know, what I observe is a profound failure of justice.
03:41We can be talking about rape culture, but we can also talk about another phenomenon
03:46called the victim blaming phenomenon.
03:50So as you can observe, many questions regarding our own personal life, irrelevant questions
04:01to victim about, you know, their sexual life, the way they dress and so on.
04:09So this is something that you can find on many, many trials and different countries
04:14such as Sweden, for example, remove all those questions.
04:20Finding those questions are completely irrelevant to the case.
04:24And they just analyze the fact is the women has been raped or no.
04:30And a past doesn't have anything to do with that.
04:34How do you feel?
04:35I mean, here we are at this halfway point of the case.
04:36Do you think justice will be served and things will change in France?
04:41I really hope that this justice will be served, that most of the men are going to be accused
04:50and also convicted because, you know, we have so many proof on this trial.
04:56It's really exceptional.
04:58There are many videos that are shown on the trial in front of everyone.
05:03And even in front of those videos, they're saying that they're not really committed rape.
05:09I don't go into the details because it's really too awful to describe it.
05:14But even in front of this proof, they don't take the responsibility for what they've done.
05:22So I hope justice will be served here in France.
05:25But also, I hope that it's going to be a good way to analyze all the failure that we
05:33have on our justice.
05:35Cynthia, thank you for coming in and sharing your expertise with us.
05:38Cynthia Eleuze, the founder of the Women's Voices.
05:40Thanks so much.
05:41Thank you for having me.