Visit our website:
http://www.france24.com
Like us on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/FRANCE24.English
Follow us on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/France24_en
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00We're joined now on set by cybercrime expert and a lawyer that has been following like
00:05many of us that case, Rachelle Fleur-Pardot.
00:08Thanks so much for being with us.
00:10Now we're watching Giselle Pellicot there who said she didn't want to be described as
00:14brave because as she rightly points out, she did nothing wrong.
00:18But it's still a very impressive decision that she took to waive that anonymity.
00:22She said she's doing it because she wants France's attitude to change.
00:26Do you think she'll succeed in that?
00:28I hope so.
00:29I think this needs to be a wake up call for France.
00:32She wants, Giselle Pellicot wants the stigma attached to rape to really change.
00:38And that's what she's trying to do, right?
00:40She addressed yesterday at her trial, she addressed society as a whole.
00:46And by saying that, she made a little the walls of the criminal court she's currently
00:53at fall a little so that society can really see what is the reality of rape?
01:00What is the reality of a trial for rape?
01:03And I hope that thanks to Giselle Pellicot, we'll have a real change of how we all see
01:10and picture rape because rape is not only something that might happen in a dark street
01:15at night.
01:16It can happen in your own bedroom, in your own home.
01:20And also it has to change who we see as who can be accused of rape because it is the first
01:28time in France that we have so many different profiles of persons in front of the same jurisdictions
01:35accused of rape.
01:37We have 51 of them.
01:38And we see that somebody who is accused of rape can be anyone, but it is a man, right?
01:47Because if there is one point in common between this whole group of persons accused of rape
01:53is that they are all men.
01:57Really rape is a crime of domination of men against women.
02:01That is what this trial reminds us.
02:04And I hope, as Giselle Pellicot once said, that thanks to her, thanks to her courage,
02:09I have to say it because she has courage, indeed, shame will change sides when we speak
02:16about rape and that shame will be on the ones who are accused of rape and not on the
02:22ones that were victims of rape.
02:25Indeed, going through the trial door and listening to the defendants try and justify what they did,
02:33Giselle Pellicot was unconscious.
02:35What is the law when it comes to consent here in France?
02:38Here in France, and it's something that we speak a lot nowadays, is that in the definition
02:44of rape, there is not the word consent.
02:47But still, surprise or constraint is a way to qualify rape in France.
02:53In France, we do not only criminalise rape with violence.
02:56In the case of Giselle Pellicot, indeed, she was unconscious.
03:00So it was a rape by surprise and or it was a rape by physical constraint.
03:06What I want to say is that the way we criminalise rape in France is indeed applicable to Giselle Pellicot's case.
03:13Now there is this debate as to the opportunity to add the word consent in the definition of rape.
03:20And I'm in favour of that addition.
03:23But it has to be done very carefully because it has not to put a higher burden of proof
03:30on the victim's side.
03:32And so our legislators, the members of parliament who are currently working on this new legislation
03:38must be really careful when doing that change.
03:42What is it like for victims of sexual crimes in France today?
03:46We want to get rid of the shame, but that needs to come with support.
03:50It is a really difficult task.
03:53It is a really difficult path for victims of rape to go in front of jurisdiction.
03:58It is the case in France, but it is the case in every country of the world.
04:05It is the case because you have to speak about some details of your intimacy, but maybe what
04:11you have of more intimate, of more private.
04:15And also that is why I think Giselle Pellicot has done so much.
04:19And that's why we have to be collectively so thankful to her, because by her attitude,
04:26she I think helped all the victims of rape to speak out, to maybe go and report the actions
04:33that they were victim of, to stand for their rights like Giselle Pellicot did.
04:40In that, she's an icon, an example, someone to look up to, to inspire others.
04:47And I'm so thankful to her for that.
04:49Indeed, incredibly inspiring and coming across so strong in such difficult circumstances.
04:54You know, she's called out French society saying it's too macho.
04:59Give us an idea of just how macho, just how large an extent you think crimes like this
05:03may be happening in France?
05:05Oh, I think we have a recent number that says that outside a couple, not in the couple area,
05:14right, there is 1,500,000 victims of sexist or sexual violence.
05:21So it is a very, very large number.
05:25But it's super interesting when she says that a macho society has to end because I think
05:30that really this trial has been, again, a demonstration of how deep this macho philosophy
05:37is still present in the French society.
05:39When we hear some of the accused men of rape saying that they thought that because the
05:46husband said it was OK, it meant that Giselle Pellicot had agreed for this sexual intercourse.
05:53But actually, a woman is not the thing of her husband, right?
05:59She's not possessed by anyone.
06:00She's free to decide what to do with her own body.
06:04And this is a reminder that still in France, people dare to say that because the husband
06:11said so, it meant that the woman, the wife, wanted to.
06:15And so this has to be also a wake up call on how we educate, right, our kids, our children
06:22in France on what is consent, what is the respect of the other person and of her or
06:30his body.
06:31And also, this has to make her collectively reflect on what made others believe so.
06:37Maybe, indeed, and it was a topic that was brought up during the trial, but access to
06:42pornography and what we can see in pornographic content that is allowed so easily on the Internet.
06:50How does it affect the vision we have of sexual relationship and of consent as a whole?
06:57We've often debated how violent videos don't lead to ongoing debt.
07:01So there's that question of how big a role can access online have it.
07:04However, it is forming sexual information, I guess, for people growing up, you know.
07:10Obviously, like there are some images that forge our collective imagination and some
07:17bodies.
07:18Sometimes it also can maybe stimulate some fantasies.
07:21Right.
07:22And when you have so many videos online that represent people having sex with an unconscious
07:28person, it can incite others to reproduce such images.
07:33It's also a failure, I think, of maybe education of a state that has for too long treated sex
07:41as a taboo and left sexual education a sort of monopoly on these two pornographic sites.
07:48This has to end.
07:50We have to really address with no shame what is sex and what is consent and what is a safe
07:56sexual and affective relationship.
07:58Indeed, lift the taboo on something that should be natural and consensual and fun and all
08:05the rest of it.
08:06But you are specialized in cyber matters, including sexual cyber crimes.
08:12Is there any real level of security in that area?
08:15Actually, it has to come also.
08:17And it's interesting to be here in your English channel, right, because the fight for a safer
08:23cyber environment and the fight against cyber sexual crimes has to be an international battle.
08:31It is something that we see in all the countries across the globe.
08:36And very often when you have a case in France, the offender may be in another country.
08:41So states must gather and continue to put pressure on platforms.
08:47And the European Union has been a leader on digital regulation and it has to keep being
08:53one, especially at a time when Trump has as a first support Elon Musk.
09:00And when Elon Musk is going to have responsibilities at the White House, we have more than ever
09:05here as Europeans within the European Union to be very proactive in regulating the digital
09:13area.
09:14Rachel, Flor, Pardo, thanks so much for coming in and bringing us your expertise on the situation.
09:19Thank you so much.