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Join the Garden Report crew as they break down the second of two back-to-back games between the Celtics and Hornets!


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Sports
Transcript
00:00:00Can you say hard hats, folks?
00:00:06Hard hats?
00:00:07Lunch pails?
00:00:08Steel-toed boots?
00:00:09Anything short of a championship this year is a failure.
00:00:11Look at this boomer right here.
00:00:13You've just got so much talent here.
00:00:15Somebody said we need to apologize for Jalen.
00:00:17Can I pull the John?
00:00:18What are we apologizing for?
00:00:19What did we say?
00:00:20What did we do?
00:00:21The Celtics complete two impressive back-to-back games, wins over the Charlotte Hornets, tonight
00:00:37113-103.
00:00:40Nick Jelso here with A. Sherrod Blakely.
00:00:44What's up, man?
00:00:45What's going on, Nick?
00:00:46What's going on?
00:00:47Wait a minute.
00:00:48What's going on?
00:00:49It's been a while, bro.
00:00:51Good game tonight.
00:00:52Tough third quarter.
00:00:53Well, great first half.
00:00:54Let's start there.
00:00:55Tatum, Pritchard.
00:00:56I swore I wasn't going to talk about Luke Cornett tonight, but we're going to have to
00:01:02at some point.
00:01:03We'll hold that off until Bobby Manning and Noah get here from...
00:01:08They're down in Charlotte.
00:01:09They're going to join us.
00:01:10I'm sure Bobby will be talking about Luke quite a bit, so his 19 points can wait.
00:01:16But you look at that first half between Pritchard and Tatum, man.
00:01:21Pritchard.
00:01:22He's the type of guy that will say it now, I'm going for six-man of the year, and actually
00:01:27go through with making the real push to get six-man of the year.
00:01:3317 first-half points.
00:01:35No, he was good.
00:01:37He was really, really good, impactful.
00:01:40It's interesting, for those who didn't watch the game, and for those of us who did, you
00:01:44could see the way that him and Tatum were working in concert.
00:01:48They were really trying to get the ball out of Tatum's hands, and more often than not,
00:01:51Tatum made sure it wound up in Pritchard's hands, and Pritchard made them pay.
00:01:55That's what you're going to have to do.
00:01:57When you have a player as good as Jason Tatum is, who draws the kind of attention that he
00:02:02does, you have to make defenses pay when they try to overplay, overprotect, double, tilt,
00:02:08shift in his direction.
00:02:09And Pritchard did a really, really good job of that.
00:02:13When you talk about six-man of the year, and I know it's super early, we get into the weeds
00:02:17with that, like super, super, duper early, but it speaks to his mindset.
00:02:22Pritchard knows that for him, the best thing that he can do is be the best version of Peyton
00:02:26Pritchard.
00:02:27He can be night in, night out.
00:02:28And if that's happening, he's going to be in that conversation.
00:02:31But I will tell you this, though.
00:02:34His stiffest competition, as we get through the season, is probably a guy that he saw
00:02:38a lot of tonight, and this weekend, and Trey Mann, who is good.
00:02:43I mean, he can score the hell out of the ball.
00:02:46Wasn't as impactful in this game as we've seen him in the past.
00:02:49But for Peyton, it's good to have games like this when you're on the floor against somebody
00:02:55who's obviously angling for the same thing you are.
00:02:58He wants to be the best six-man in the league this year.
00:03:01And Peyton finishing with 22, I think Trey had like maybe 12, 14.
00:03:04What did Trey have?
00:03:05Trey had 10.
00:03:0610.
00:03:0710 points, yeah.
00:03:08He had even 10.
00:03:09So these are the kind of games that not only help the Celtics in terms of wins and losses,
00:03:13but also helps Peyton to move a little bit closer to achieving some of those personal
00:03:18individual goals that I know he set out to do this year.
00:03:23Joe Mazzola is talking down in Charlotte now, and Noah Dalzell and Bobby Manning is down
00:03:28there for CLNS.
00:03:30They'll be checking in also with updates on Jalen Brown.
00:03:35MRI, I think the second MRI on that hip, correct?
00:03:38Yeah, I believe it was the second.
00:03:41And hips are, you can't play around with that.
00:03:45Can't play around with that.
00:03:46So good for them to be able to give him some rest and just reevaluate where he's at.
00:03:50Because they're going to need him, obviously, as the season progresses, for sure.
00:03:54No question.
00:03:55So Celtics postgame show on CLNS.
00:03:58We're powered by PrizePix, GameTime, and tonight, Rocket Money.
00:04:02We'll get more information on our partners a little later in the show.
00:04:06But as for tonight, the other game story was the Hornets coming out in the third quarter
00:04:13and outscoring Boston, I think, 24-17, somewhere in that range.
00:04:18You saw that's where they made their push, Charlotte, and the Celtics, they struggled
00:04:24in that quarter.
00:04:26But really good to see Joe Mazzola hold Tatum, right?
00:04:30In between that third and fourth quarter, hold Tatum out later, put him back.
00:04:34And the Celtics came back in that fourth quarter, held the lead.
00:04:38Tatum came back with Keita, and it was history from there.
00:04:40It was like gangbusters in that fourth quarter.
00:04:44And man, this team, if you had any concerns about confidence or swagger, or even for a
00:04:51championship team, chip on your shoulder.
00:04:54Don't be worried early in this season, because you're seeing it already.
00:04:58Tonight, I never really had any concern whatsoever.
00:05:03And you know when I probably felt that the most in the past?
00:05:07Sherrod was like 2009 when the Celtics were defending their title then.
00:05:12So there's definitely...
00:05:13Oh, and tonight, I got to take the opportunity to say the world champion Boston Celtics.
00:05:20They are the world champions.
00:05:21This is the first time I have a chance to say it on the show.
00:05:24So seven games in, I'm already pumping my tires and gloating a little bit.
00:05:29First opportunity there.
00:05:30And yeah, so anyway, Drew was big in that third quarter as well, Sherrod.
00:05:35So he's still continuing to prove, you know...
00:05:38Oh, and D. White too.
00:05:39I mean, everybody really chipped in tonight.
00:05:42Yeah, yeah.
00:05:42You mentioned Drew, Holly.
00:05:43I thought, you know, he had a couple of really big players.
00:05:46One that jumps out to me was when him and Al Horford played the two-man game where he
00:05:49just fed the ball to Al on the block.
00:05:52Al just dribbled, dribbled, dribbled, sucked the defense at some point,
00:05:55kick it out to Drew, three-pointer.
00:05:57And from there, the Celtics really seem to just kind of continue to roll ahead to this
00:06:01really, you know, a good win.
00:06:03Because this Charlotte team, they got some good players.
00:06:05They're not great players.
00:06:07They're young, they're talented, they're hungry.
00:06:09They play with very little fear of the Boston Celtics.
00:06:13And they've got to have a heck of a coach.
00:06:14And Charles Lee, someone that, you know, Celtics fans are familiar with.
00:06:18Charles Lee is a guy that was on the staff of the Boston Celtics last year,
00:06:22when they won a championship, was on the Milwaukee Bucs staff when they won a championship.
00:06:25So it's not like this guy is not familiar with being around teams that are building
00:06:30towards a championship.
00:06:32Now, with Charlotte there, they got a long ways to go before that conversation can even
00:06:36be alluded to.
00:06:37But he definitely has those guys playing hard.
00:06:40And this was, I thought, a good test for the Celtics.
00:06:42One of the things that we've seen historically is that playing a team back-to-back nights
00:06:47in their building, it's hard to win both of those games.
00:06:50It really is, no matter how talented you may be over the opponent.
00:06:54And the Celtics, I thought, did a good job of playing with the kind of poise, the kind
00:06:58of composure that you have to have when you're in a situation like this.
00:07:02And it was a game where I thought Joe Mizzoula did a lot of really good things.
00:07:06Yes.
00:07:07That timeout.
00:07:08Yeah.
00:07:09He did a great job of pushing the right buttons at the right time to get the right results.
00:07:15And you know, we talk a lot about this team and their overall growth and how certain players
00:07:20have to get better and others have to maintain a certain level of excellence.
00:07:24Joe Mizzoula is getting better as a coach.
00:07:26You watch the way that they have handled themselves the start of the season.
00:07:30There is a clear and undeniable vision of how he is figuring out how to do things better,
00:07:38more effective, more efficient.
00:07:40And really, he's giving these guys a chance to win every single night.
00:07:44And if we're being honest and candid, there's a hell of a lot of coaches who don't do that.
00:07:48There's a hell of a lot of coaches that have a really crappy game plan and they can't quite
00:07:53figure out why it's not working.
00:07:54And when those of us who are watching are like, well, because it was a bad game plan.
00:07:58Joe's not having those kind of nights.
00:08:00And again, he has a team that has talent and he's getting better as a coach.
00:08:04And when you put those two together, you're going to have a team that's given itself the
00:08:08greatest chance possible to be the last team standing.
00:08:11And that's ultimately what this season is about.
00:08:13It's about being the last team standing when the final horn of the season sounds.
00:08:19They did it a year ago and they look very much like they are ready to run it back.
00:08:25The other Joe Mazzulla thing is, and people might be surprised to hear me say this, but
00:08:32I'm now looking for them to shoot a lot of threes, Sherrod.
00:08:37And I mean, I am.
00:08:40And in the past I was always, and I'm still, you know, I don't like when they get wild
00:08:44and it's just two, three heavy, three point heavy, but like I'm finding myself in certain
00:08:50games saying, that's an open three, take it.
00:08:53Or that that's, you know, whereas in the past I would get, I wouldn't just get frustrated.
00:08:58I would get annoyed with the Mazzulla volume of three kind of strategy.
00:09:04I hate to say it, but I think it's working.
00:09:06Well, it's like any type of system.
00:09:09I mean, if you're doing it and you're doing it the way you ideally envision it being done
00:09:14and you're winning, yup, this is the right system for you.
00:09:17Yeah.
00:09:18See me in February when they're not dropping.
00:09:20Right?
00:09:21Yeah.
00:09:22I don't, I don't think his system works for everyone.
00:09:23I don't think it works for most teams to be honest with you, because in order for you
00:09:28to be able to get the kind of threes that they get up on a regular basis, you've got
00:09:32to have multiple guys who can create their own shot because those guys are the ones that
00:09:37create open threes.
00:09:38Tatum can create his own shot, Jalen Brown, Derek White, you go to the bench, Peyton Pritchard.
00:09:45And now even Sam Houser is causing some problems when he gives you the pump fake to, you know,
00:09:49two dribble step in long two.
00:09:52That now all of a sudden forces defense to do things a little bit differently as well.
00:09:56Drew Holliday, another one, you go down the line, they become very difficult to defend
00:10:00because they have so many guys that can get to the rim and those guys are, they're knowledgeable
00:10:05and smart enough and savvy enough to know that if the defense takes away that dribble
00:10:10penetration, that means the defense is sucked in, in some capacity, which means you can
00:10:14spray the ball to a wide open three point shooter or a lightly contested one.
00:10:18And the Celtics are doing that at a very high clip.
00:10:22And it's looking more and more like just the right basketball play.
00:10:25I think, you know, last year I thought they forced a lot of threes that they just didn't
00:10:31need to.
00:10:32I thought that they were, I thought it was a more conscious thing that we got to give
00:10:35lots of threes.
00:10:36We got to get up lots of threes.
00:10:38Now it's just part of what they do because it's really more times than not, it's the
00:10:42right basketball play.
00:10:43If you dribble drive and the defense collapses and takes away your ability to get all the
00:10:48way to the rim, the smart play is to kick it open to one of the teammates.
00:10:52Because if there's multiple defenders in a paint that are forcing you to take a tough
00:10:57contested shot, that means somebody is open.
00:11:00Their job at that point is to get them the ball.
00:11:02And the Celtics have done that at a really high clip to start the season.
00:11:06I think it's going to continue.
00:11:08And it's, they're becoming a very difficult team to match up with because they have so
00:11:12many guys that can create their own shot.
00:11:15And if you are looking around the NBA, there are not teams that have three, four, five
00:11:21different shot creators.
00:11:23Most teams have one or two, maybe three on a good day.
00:11:26The Celtics have at least four.
00:11:27And that's one of the things.
00:11:28Yeah.
00:11:30And that's one of the things that I think people really don't give them enough credit
00:11:33for.
00:11:34They talk about them taking lots of threes and having good three point shooters, but
00:11:37you got to have creators to get those three point shots.
00:11:40And they do a really good job and you know, got to give Brad Stevens his props.
00:11:45He has created a team of multiple guys that can get their own shots and that's creating
00:11:51shots for everyone else.
00:11:53And they have the trust and the confidence in their teammates not to force those shots.
00:11:59So the unselfishness, somebody had said in the third, in the chat room, somebody had
00:12:05said in the third quarter, they started playing more ISO ball.
00:12:10And that's true.
00:12:11And it's indicative of, it kind of, you know, when they're playing a lot of ISO ball, because
00:12:16the ball's obviously not moving, but usually it's coinciding with, you know, a fall off
00:12:21in productivity or lead.
00:12:23So this team, yeah, this team is just made to move the ball.
00:12:29And like some other great teams we've seen throughout history that have high assist turnouts
00:12:33or ratios are usually, this team fits right in that mold.
00:12:38They do.
00:12:39They do.
00:12:40And the key, Nick, that you just pointed out was just being unselfish.
00:12:43These guys, they figured out that, you know, if I give the ball up when I'm supposed to,
00:12:48chances are I'm going to get it back when I need it, when this team needs me to get
00:12:53a bucket.
00:12:54And that's one of the benefits of having, you know, won a championship.
00:12:58You know, Doc Rivers, you know, talked about this the other night when, you know, when
00:13:00the Bucs were in town about how, you know, these guys have kind of figured it out how
00:13:06to win and they're not going away anytime soon.
00:13:10And you know, Brad Stevens took care of that with some of the contracts that they doled
00:13:13out.
00:13:14The players are saying all the right things, doing all the right things right now.
00:13:19And, you know, the balancing act that they have is that you're trying to build towards
00:13:23winning a championship while at the same time developing the back end of your roster,
00:13:27which is a lot easier said than done.
00:13:30But you start to see guys like Jordan Walsh get in before, you know, you know, the game
00:13:34is over.
00:13:35You're seeing, you know, Peyton Pritchard having a little bit more prominent role.
00:13:39Sam Houser, you know, he's been out with, you know, with injuries, but he's starting
00:13:43to get back to the flow.
00:13:44Keita, who we'll talk a little bit more about, he's starting to show why a lot of folks are
00:13:50excited about him.
00:13:52And obviously, you know, the Bobby Manning portion of the Pro-Gam, aka Luke, we'll get
00:13:58into that a little bit later.
00:14:00But let's focus on Keita a bit.
00:14:02Yeah.
00:14:03There's a lot of things if you're a Celtics fan that you should be excited about for what
00:14:07this team is doing now and what they have the potential to do down the road.
00:14:11Yep.
00:14:12Yep.
00:14:13And part of that is the confidence and the swagger you're seeing them walk in with night
00:14:18in and night out.
00:14:19They are the world champions.
00:14:21They look like the world champions.
00:14:23And I think now we've passed the point of saying, well, when adversity hits, are they
00:14:29going to be able to turn it around?
00:14:31Because they've already done it time and time again now, not just this season, but last
00:14:36season on their way to banner 18.
00:14:40And I think really, barring injury, Sherrod, because we know what happened in 2009, I still
00:14:47have PTSD.
00:14:49You know, barring any major, although, and I don't want to jinx or put off or underplay
00:14:56injuries, but this team's resiliency to already seven, eight games in, we've seen them win
00:15:03and compete without Horford, without Jalen, and of course, without KP.
00:15:10So, you know, without talking too much about injuries and the possibility, but keeping
00:15:17them away from Jalen and Jason, other than that, I think the team can withstand an injury
00:15:22that puts someone out.
00:15:23Obviously, we don't want it, but they're showing that they're deep, man.
00:15:27What Brad has built is so deep.
00:15:28Yeah.
00:15:29And I think, you know, Porzingis injury has really helped this team figure out how to
00:15:35handle adversity because how many teams have a seven foot two inch, you know, unicorn who
00:15:41can shoot three, score in a block, contest shots at the rim and not have them around
00:15:46for significant portions of your postseason run and still dominate like 16, three in the
00:15:53postseason dominate.
00:15:54And when he did play, he played great, which you expect, but the way that this team is
00:15:59built is they've not reliant on one or two guys to carry them night in, night out.
00:16:04Cause we're going to talk a lot about Jason Tatum, obviously we're going to talk a lot
00:16:07about Jalen Brown, but you look at a guy like Derek White has arguably been their most consistent
00:16:12player thus far this season.
00:16:14You look at a guy like Drew Holiday.
00:16:15He doesn't put up major numbers, but when you look at it, he comes the best player on
00:16:22the floor.
00:16:23Easy, hands down.
00:16:25And to have guys that have that particular skill and Peyton Pritchard, I mean, if it's
00:16:30a close game and we're near the end of the quarter, there's no one I want the ball in
00:16:33their hands more than Peyton Pritchard.
00:16:35He's shown the ability to deliver that late end of the shot clock, end of the quarter
00:16:40dagger at a level that wants to do it.
00:16:42He wants the ball in that moment.
00:16:45And his teammates want to get him the ball.
00:16:47It's to the point now where teams are putting specific game plans together so that he does
00:16:53not get the ball at the end of the quarters, which is unusual to say the least.
00:16:58But my point is this team is built in a way where you cannot lock in on limiting or trying
00:17:04to minimize one or two guys because they put you in this whack-a-mole mode where the minute
00:17:10you think you just got one or two guys locked up, there comes Peyton Pritchard.
00:17:13The minute you address him, Sam Houser's hitting shots.
00:17:16Imagine how demoralizing, Rod, how demoralizing is that for opponents, right?
00:17:22Make them dig into their bench and you're digging in for Al Horford when KP's back.
00:17:27You're digging in for Sam Houser and Peyton Pritchard.
00:17:30I mean, it's like never ending waves of talent keep coming at you.
00:17:34You got guys like Lou Cornette, who's basically your eighth, ninth man, who when you throw
00:17:39him in the starting lineup is getting you 19 points.
00:17:41You got guys like Keita, who's at the end of your bench and he's doing chin-ups on everyone
00:17:45in your front court and blocking shots and all through the block.
00:17:51They have built this team into a, without question, a team that's built for the long
00:17:56haul and impactful now.
00:17:59It's just a matter of keeping it all together, staying healthy, and just basically playing
00:18:04close.
00:18:05They don't even have to play at their absolute peak.
00:18:07They just have to play close to their potential because doing that alone is going to get them
00:18:11at worse, at worse to the conference finals.
00:18:14Yeah.
00:18:15Yeah.
00:18:16I mean, it's pretty incredible.
00:18:19There's a lot of KP criticism going on in the chat room, Sharad, that I'm watching.
00:18:24I think people, or fans, what they're underestimating is how much, and I think you could speak to
00:18:31this because you've covered so many locker rooms, how much, yes, he's been a big difference
00:18:37on the court.
00:18:38He changes their style of play for the positive, but he's had a lot of injuries, but he's still
00:18:44been such a great influence on this team based on locker room influence, attitude.
00:18:50I mean, dude's always smiling.
00:18:52There's no place he'd want to be other than here.
00:18:56And when he is on the court, the Celtics are marginally better.
00:19:00So talk, because they're going off on him in the chat room a little bit.
00:19:04He's been, air quote, useless because he's been off the court so much.
00:19:08But I think that KP has contributed even from a non-playing perspective, and you've seen
00:19:14that over and over, over the years.
00:19:16Yeah.
00:19:17Yeah.
00:19:18I mean, well, first and foremost, you have to identify what is the goal?
00:19:20What are you trying to achieve as a team?
00:19:22And last season, it was a winning championship.
00:19:24Last I checked, when you got to the playoffs, you had a lot of success.
00:19:27But when he came back, he put you over the top.
00:19:29He gave you that absolute extra little sauce or whatever you want to call it, juice, whatever
00:19:34you want to call it, that made that series a non-series.
00:19:39And to have a guy like that is vital to winning a championship.
00:19:42And when we look at Jalen Brown, I don't know if there's another guy on this team who seems
00:19:46to unlock the awesomeness of Jalen Brown.
00:19:52I mean, Jalen Brown is a very different player, a much better player, a more complete player
00:19:57since Porzingis has been part of this roster.
00:20:00And I don't think it's a coincidence that those two get along so well.
00:20:03I don't think it's a coincidence that Jalen's face lights up when you ask him about KP and
00:20:07vice versa.
00:20:08And when you have one of your best players in a position or predicament where they feel
00:20:14really good in a way that we haven't seen them visibly feel good about before, there's
00:20:20nothing but positives that can come about with that.
00:20:22And let's just cut to the chase.
00:20:25He's seven foot two, can shoot threes and all the shots.
00:20:28He's a really good player when he's healthy.
00:20:30And one of the things that I think a lot of people don't want to embrace is that while,
00:20:35yes, you are so much better when you have him around, his absence has allowed someone
00:20:41like Luke Cornett to expand his game.
00:20:43His absence has allowed someone like Keita to be more than just this idea, this concept
00:20:51that's really good.
00:20:52But we don't really know how that looks in a real game.
00:20:55Well, yeah, we do.
00:20:56We're finding out that Keita can do more than just be a concept that you like to think about.
00:21:02He can actually play.
00:21:04Now, is he flawed?
00:21:05Absolutely.
00:21:05Is Luke Cornett flawed?
00:21:06Absolutely.
00:21:07But they're getting a chance to work out those flaws.
00:21:10You're getting a chance to see what they can do.
00:21:12And your team is still finding ways to win games.
00:21:15So as much as I and most people would love to see Porzingis out there, his absence is
00:21:21going to benefit this team long term.
00:21:23Because when he comes back, he's going to be hungrier to get back to playing at the
00:21:27level that he knows he's capable of.
00:21:29The guys that were filling in for him are going to have reps and develop muscle memory
00:21:34on how to be an impact player, how to help this team, so that when they are called upon
00:21:40for three, four, five minutes stints here and there, if maybe there's foul trouble or
00:21:43something to that effect.
00:21:44Yeah, this is all going to play into that.
00:21:46They're not going to be in awe of the moment because they know what it's like to be out
00:21:50there.
00:21:51To me, when you are in a situation that the Celtics are in, which I think most games,
00:21:55they're playing with house money.
00:21:56Getting a chance to get a better look at Keita in a real game situation, getting a
00:22:00chance to look at Lou, getting a chance to play Xavier Tillman, all of that is going
00:22:06to be to your benefit over the long haul.
00:22:08Because remember, as much as we want to embrace what they're doing now, this is about April,
00:22:14May, and June.
00:22:15What's happening in November and October and December is all about building towards
00:22:20April, May, and June, and getting those guys reps, getting those guys on the floor in
00:22:24games, and them contributing to winning in those games.
00:22:28That's going to help you in April, May, and June.
00:22:31That's why, to me, again, I'm not tripping out about poor Zingas not being around because
00:22:36I know that this is something that if you're a Celtics, this is going to be to your benefit
00:22:40over the long haul.
00:22:41We love it right now.
00:22:43This is great.
00:22:44And it forces opponents, Nick, to have to expand their game planning for you.
00:22:50Because now, all of a sudden, when Keita's in the game, if poor Zingas was playing and
00:22:56Keita would be on your Sky report, but there might be maybe five words about him.
00:23:01Now, you actually have to devote some attention to thinking about what are we going to do
00:23:05when he gets in the game.
00:23:06Same thing with Lou.
00:23:07Lou is doing more than just screening now.
00:23:09He's actually looking to be more of an offensive threat.
00:23:12Now, all of a sudden, that has to be added to your game plan.
00:23:16Xavier Tillman, undersized four, can shoot a little bit, but now he's shooting a little
00:23:21bit more.
00:23:21That has to be part of your game plan.
00:23:23Now, all of a sudden, that means you have to work a little bit harder to prepare for
00:23:27the Celtics.
00:23:28We ain't even talking about the bread and butter, Jason Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Drew Holiday,
00:23:33Derek White, Al Horford, et cetera, et cetera.
00:23:36Long story short, poor Zingas absence is making it extremely more difficult for teams to game
00:23:43plan against the Celtics, and conversely, making it easier for the Celtics to develop
00:23:49talent and win games.
00:23:51Because when you're a championship team, it's more like rinse, recycle, repeat.
00:23:55You've got the same six, seven, eight guys you play every night, and that's how that
00:23:58works.
00:23:59The Celtics can't do that because of injuries and because of load management.
00:24:04You know, guys that maybe on most nights are the 10th, 11th man might be starting one night.
00:24:09Guys who might not even been an active roster might actually be in a rotation.
00:24:13That's how you develop your players and still have this goal in mind of winning a
00:24:19championship.
00:24:19The Celtics, to me, this is the blueprint for how if you want to win a championship
00:24:24and stay in the conversation, the Celtics are giving you a blueprint on how that looks.
00:24:29Add to that, giving confidence to guys like Jordan Walsh with 13 minutes.
00:24:35No, he didn't score.
00:24:37But I think it's even more impressive that Brad left him in the game.
00:24:42And a lot of that was third quarter minutes when they were struggling, not putting it
00:24:45on him.
00:24:46But I said, Brad, Joe, but Joe has confidence.
00:24:51And I think we've complained a little about Joe going to the young guys.
00:24:56So he's really making an effort clearly this young season to get Jordan Walsh minutes,
00:25:04even in tense parts of the game of the games.
00:25:07And that speaks to what you're talking about.
00:25:10And it's going to go a long way come January, February, March, April, when you got a call
00:25:15on these guys to make those 13.
00:25:18If they're going to play 13 minutes, they've got to make them impactful or at least, you
00:25:23know, be a placeholder and not hurt you.
00:25:26Yeah, yeah.
00:25:27I mean, we're seeing that.
00:25:29Yeah, there's a tendency to think that, you know, guys who can run fast, jump high and
00:25:35shoot, they're going to find their way.
00:25:37They're going to be good players.
00:25:38But so much of the NBA is a mental battle than it is physical.
00:25:42Because there's very little difference from a physical standpoint between most players
00:25:48in the NBA.
00:25:48They're all exceptional athletes.
00:25:50They all have, you know, certain things that they can do at just, you know, a superhuman
00:25:54level.
00:25:55But mentally, are they tough enough to deal with adversity?
00:25:59When the shot clock is winding down, are they going to run away from the ball?
00:26:03When they've got fans who are screaming and saying some really not so nice things to them,
00:26:09are they going to allow that stuff to mentally alter them?
00:26:12When people are screaming the minute they catch the ball and are about to shoot, does
00:26:15that throw them off?
00:26:16These are the kind of things that unless you get into the game and understand literally
00:26:21what that's like, you're not going to be able to handle that as well as you could if you're
00:26:26called upon in the playoffs.
00:26:27If, you know, someone twists an ankle or, you know, is in foul trouble and you've got
00:26:32to play more minutes than normal.
00:26:34Are you built to do that?
00:26:35Are you mentally built to do that?
00:26:37Physically, I don't worry about guys in the NBA that much when it comes to being physically
00:26:41ready to do things.
00:26:43Are they mentally strong enough to hold their own and make plays and do that kind of stuff?
00:26:47And Jordan Walsh, I love the fact that he's getting opportunities to develop that.
00:26:51He's getting opportunities to showcase where he's at as far as his learning curve of what
00:26:56NBA basketball is like.
00:26:58And I would say at this point, it's been up and down.
00:27:00I think he's had some moments where he looked really good and other moments where you're
00:27:03reminded that he's still a relatively young player who left college as a relatively young
00:27:09player and that's fine.
00:27:11Because you're not counting on him to be a ready-made product right now.
00:27:15You're looking to develop him.
00:27:17And these are opportunities early in the season where you get to do that, where even if, let's
00:27:21say, he's out there for five or six minutes and he doesn't play particularly well, and
00:27:25maybe you wind up losing that game, it's better to have him go through that experience in
00:27:29October and November than to go through it in April, when it becomes so much more impactful,
00:27:35so much more of a season-defining, difference-making type of thing.
00:27:40And you don't want that.
00:27:41You want him to be as mentally strong as possible when the games absolutely matter
00:27:45most.
00:27:46And that's in a playoffs.
00:27:47But in order to make that happen, in order to get them ready, he's got to get some burn
00:27:51out.
00:27:51And that's what Joe Mazzulla is doing a really good job.
00:27:54I've been, to be candid with you, I've been surprised that he has leaned on guys like
00:28:00Jordan as much as he has in Cato as well.
00:28:02It seems to be almost intentional, right?
00:28:05It seems like he's making a real effort to do it.
00:28:09You think that's speaking exactly to what you're talking about, you know, readiness
00:28:14for late into the season?
00:28:16I think Joe understands that the way they won a championship last year is not going
00:28:21to be the road that they are going to take again.
00:28:23They would love if things played out that way.
00:28:25But I think Joe is thinking, what are some things that we can do to make us even more
00:28:31insulated against stuff going wrong, things that happen that we can't control?
00:28:35So what can I do as a coach to do a better job than I did last year?
00:28:39What's an area that I need to grow in?
00:28:41And I thought one of the areas he needed to grow in was trusting the young guys, giving
00:28:45them opportunities to develop and grow, make mistakes and learn from them.
00:28:50And we're seeing that with Jordan.
00:28:52We're seeing that with Jordan on a way that I am pleasantly surprised.
00:28:57I'm surprised.
00:28:58Because we saw glimpses of Jordan showing some good things in the summer.
00:29:02I thought some good things in the preseason.
00:29:04But it's summer league, it's preseason, those games don't really matter.
00:29:08And there's a different level of talent that you're dealing with.
00:29:11But now you're seeing what he's able to do in real life games.
00:29:15And again, I think he's had some really good moments so far.
00:29:18I think he's had some where he's definitely going to learn and needs to learn to get better
00:29:21and handle those situations better.
00:29:23But that's the beauty of being a young player on a championship caliber team.
00:29:27If you're doing your job as a young fella, you're going to be picking up things that
00:29:31are going to benefit you down the road and trying to implement them in games.
00:29:34And once you implement them in games, it may not be as smooth as when Jason Tatum does them.
00:29:40But you still need to learn those lessons.
00:29:43He missed a couple of shots tonight that he knows he has to be comfortable making.
00:29:48I mean, that corner three has to be a 40, 45, 50% area of knocking down for him to really
00:29:56help the South.
00:29:57Because he's going to get that shot pretty much every night that he steps on the floor.
00:30:00And he's got to knock it down at a high enough clip to where teams are going to have to respect
00:30:04it.
00:30:04And once that happens, all of a sudden, the game planning against the Celtics, it continues
00:30:09to expand.
00:30:10And he continues to expand his opportunities to get playing time.
00:30:14So there's just a lot of really good things going on with this team now.
00:30:19And I love the fact that Joe Mazzulla is not resting on those good things.
00:30:23He's thinking, well, what if things don't go good?
00:30:26What if something's happened that I can't control, but I have to deal with and address?
00:30:30What can I do to better prepare this team for the rough times, for the storms, for the
00:30:35tsunamis of the season that we just got to find a way to fight through?
00:30:39Am I going to have a team of soldiers and battlers who are built to handle those moments?
00:30:44And Joe, I think, is doing a really good job of building up the confidence of guys like
00:30:49Luke, guys like Jordan Walsh, Tillman, Cato.
00:30:53Those guys have a different level of confidence now than they had a year ago when they pretty
00:30:58much knew, unless the Celtics were up by 40 in the fourth, they may not play.
00:31:04But now you see situations where Jordan Walsh, they're looking at maybe a six,
00:31:08seven-point lead.
00:31:08And Jordan's getting there.
00:31:09He's the first or second guy getting in the damn game.
00:31:12That's something that, again, it's a major confidence boost.
00:31:16And not getting yanked.
00:31:18Not getting yanked.
00:31:21That says as much as getting in.
00:31:24You look at a stat line like tonight.
00:31:26It wasn't horrendous.
00:31:29It was just all donuts, right?
00:31:31He had a steal.
00:31:32And yet, he stayed in there for 13 minutes.
00:31:35And obviously, if this were later in the season, Joe probably would have maybe yanked him a bit
00:31:40earlier.
00:31:41But the fact that he didn't just continues to speak to our point, which is he's clearly
00:31:47putting an emphasis on playing the young guys.
00:31:50Now, how much of that is Maine playing yet?
00:31:53Does that have something to do with this?
00:31:54Did Maine start playing yet?
00:31:56I know that this season is going to start very soon.
00:31:59So you think he'll go down then or no?
00:32:02I don't.
00:32:03I don't.
00:32:04I think that if he goes down, he won't.
00:32:08I think they're going to do a little bit more splitting with him.
00:32:11Where I think they like having him around these guys.
00:32:14Because he's starting to show that he can help.
00:32:16And that's ultimately what this is about.
00:32:19And with Sam Hauser, Andrews, he's back to playing.
00:32:22But you never know with backs where they can potentially flare up again and be problematic.
00:32:26And it's good to have a guy like Jordan Walsh, who's obviously a different kind of player
00:32:30than Sam.
00:32:31But nonetheless, a guy that is starting to feel more confident that he can help the team
00:32:35when he's on the floor.
00:32:36And that's a big part of this.
00:32:39Playing in the NBA is actually believing that you can play in the NBA.
00:32:44And Jordan, I think his confidence has to be on the rise with just the opportunities
00:32:50that he's getting.
00:32:51And you look tonight, Joe played five guys off the bench.
00:32:54And four of those five guys had a positive plus minus when they were on the floor.
00:32:59And the only one that didn't have a positive was Tillman.
00:33:02And Tillman was just minus one.
00:33:04So those guys benched, primarily the guys on the bench are the young guys.
00:33:10They're getting in the game.
00:33:11And literally, positive things are happening for this team when they're on the floor.
00:33:15And that's what you want.
00:33:17For Joe, it validates your reasoning for playing them.
00:33:20For those players, it gives them confidence that they can help this team win.
00:33:23And for the vets like Tatum and Brown, it's great to know that the guys who don't normally
00:33:29play, the guys that you pretty much only see in practice on the court are actually able
00:33:33to help you in games that matter, in actual real life game situations.
00:33:39So there's just a lot of really good things going on right now with the Celtics.
00:33:44And Joe's doing a good job of making sure that that keeps going and
00:33:48that he's developing young guys along the way.
00:33:50Well, and to speak to depth, I mean, in development, and you look 113-103,
00:33:5810-point win, second win in two nights against the Charlotte Hornets.
00:34:02And no Kristaps Porzingis, no Jalen Brown.
00:34:06And Al Horford, I mean, he was active with six rebounds, five assists, but zero points.
00:34:13So you're really leaning on, and obviously, Joe played the double big lineup with Luke and Al.
00:34:19Luke was, and speaking of Luke, Bobby Manning is preparing right now to hop in with us.
00:34:24Look at that smile, Nick.
00:34:26Is he on?
00:34:27Oh, there he is.
00:34:29Oh, Luke.
00:34:30So perfect timing, Bobby Manning, coming to us live from Charlotte with the biggest smile,
00:34:38ear-to-ear smile on his face.
00:34:41Luke Cornett, 19 points, man.
00:34:43Continues to play well.
00:34:45Go ahead.
00:34:46The floor is yours, Bobby.
00:34:47Yeah.
00:34:48Bobby Manning hour has begun.
00:34:52Score one for Luke.
00:34:55Oh, I didn't want to go on me here.
00:34:56Hold on a minute.
00:34:58Hold on, we're doing a Cornett cam.
00:35:00Do we still have the-
00:35:01Cornett cam.
00:35:02There we go.
00:35:03Big bounce.
00:35:05Luke is in the scoring department now.
00:35:07I knew he was going to be able to score a pretty easy one because I don't think the
00:35:10Hornets had any player over 6'9", but credit to him for finishing consistently in there,
00:35:17getting on the offensive glass, just being active and running some really good sets.
00:35:21The Hornets were pushing close in that third quarter.
00:35:24I thought he and White ran a nice set to set him up for a wide open dunk there.
00:35:29I think it was the second to last basket.
00:35:34Stellar stuff from him here, Sherrod.
00:35:36I think this is about as complete a game as we've seen from Luke.
00:35:39He played strong, played good in the limited opportunities he got,
00:35:45and I feel like he impacted the game in a bunch of areas.
00:35:48Yeah.
00:35:48I mean, this was absolutely-
00:35:50Let's put it this way.
00:35:50If Luke Cornett is putting together the Luke Cornett highlight reel from this season,
00:35:54this better be one of those games that is prominently listed and shown.
00:36:00Luke did a lot of good things.
00:36:01The one thing about Luke, Bobby, that for me personally, it's been my biggest frustration
00:36:07with him is that this guy came to the Celtics with the reputation of being a stretch big,
00:36:12and we don't see him extending the floor in any way, shape, or form.
00:36:16If he's had to transform his game to do some other things,
00:36:19what are some of those other things other than setting screens?
00:36:22I thought this was one of those great games where Luke and the Celtics recognized that
00:36:26he had a mismatch, and they exploited that mismatch.
00:36:29This is not the first time that they played a team that did not have much size in the front court,
00:36:34yet this is one of the few games where it seemed like there was almost a conscious
00:36:38slash intentional effort to get Luke the ball around the rim so that he could do some good
00:36:44things, and to me, that's what this is about.
00:36:48The issue isn't whether Luke can play.
00:36:50It's whether Luke is going to be in position to be impactful, and this, again, when you're
00:36:56playing Charlotte on a Saturday night back-to-back, Luke damn well better be impactful,
00:37:00because he should be impactful against a team like this.
00:37:04Hey, Noah.
00:37:06I see nothing's changed.
00:37:07Exactly.
00:37:09You see, Bobby, you know what we're talking about.
00:37:12Before you even...
00:37:14I just watched the game with Bobby, so I already know this is a special night for him.
00:37:18Exactly.
00:37:19It's a Luke Cornett version of the program.
00:37:22Cornett versus Kada round, what are we, three or four into it at this point?
00:37:26No, you can't make it a...
00:37:28You're missing the plot.
00:37:29You can't do it in verses.
00:37:31You can't.
00:37:34Yeah, and I thought Kada was solid tonight, especially into the second half.
00:37:37You're glad you have both in situations like these, and I like that they started, Luke,
00:37:42and went double big there.
00:37:43I thought that was a good response, Noah, to Jalen being out in this one, because you
00:37:47let Kada get some free reign off the bench.
00:37:49You saw like three minutes of Tillman, so they gave him a shot, a small one, but a shot
00:37:54nonetheless.
00:37:54And you're able to limit Al's responsibilities in this one, even though I thought Al had
00:38:00a really good defensive game.
00:38:02And it looked fresh at times coming off the back-to-back rests there.
00:38:07So didn't hit his shots, but overall a plus four, so effective minutes from him.
00:38:12And the Hornets pushed him.
00:38:13I knew these games were going to be hard, Noah.
00:38:15You have Trey Mann going at you.
00:38:17Ball went crazy after that 0-for-5 start, and while they didn't have the big men involved
00:38:24in this game, you still have Brandon Miller to contend with in this game coming back,
00:38:28who I thought hurt them at different times.
00:38:30So good test here that I felt like the Celtics handled well stylistically.
00:38:36Yeah, and I understand, you know, Bobby was very excited about the Hornets.
00:38:39I understand him more now, even though obviously the Celtics won both games.
00:38:44Neither went all the way down to the wire, but there's a lot of talent over there.
00:38:47They're a fun team to watch.
00:38:48There's fun individual players, but you can see how they're not there right now.
00:38:52Like it's the beginning of something.
00:38:54But there was a lot of different, I think this game had different elements that were
00:38:59interesting, like Tatum.
00:39:00And I feel like whenever he plays one of his former coaches, they overdo it a little bit
00:39:06more on him.
00:39:07And I felt like today he actually didn't overreact.
00:39:09You know, he took probably too many threes, but Joe was happy with kind of the playmaking
00:39:14and just the decision making.
00:39:15And I thought that in general, like he played like under control.
00:39:18He wasn't doing too much.
00:39:19And you kind of know with the Charles Lee, Emay, like Will Hardy, like all those games
00:39:23have a certain feel to them.
00:39:24And I feel like the Hornets games are going to now fall in that category too.
00:39:28Yeah.
00:39:28And there's the other dynamic, you know, the Tatum comment about, you know, playing
00:39:32Charlotte on Tuesdays from about a year ago, you know, there's that.
00:39:38But the thing that I really liked about Tatum is, Noah, as you pointed out, not only did
00:39:44he play, I think with a little bit more poise when Charlotte tried to really, you know,
00:39:48blitz him and things like that, but he made the right basketball play almost every time.
00:39:54And that was get the ball to Peyton.
00:39:56Peyton Pritchard has become, you know, that, you know, that option.
00:40:01If you are going to blitz Tatum, if you're Joe Mazzuola, make sure you got Peyton Pritchard
00:40:06on the floor because Peyton is the one guy that teams are not going to give the kind
00:40:11of Jalen Brown respect to, but he's going to force them to do some things that they
00:40:16don't want to do.
00:40:16Like you have to defend Peyton Pritchard differently.
00:40:20And Peyton showed, I thought in this game, where if you play him a little bit too tight
00:40:24around the three point line, he can put it on the floor and finish at the rim, particularly
00:40:27when you're playing a team that doesn't have a legitimate shot blocking presence.
00:40:33You know, Peyton, it seemed like this game a little bit more than most went to the rim
00:40:38and that was just a smart basketball play, because if there's no rim protection, then
00:40:41what the hell are you shooting long threes for when you can get, you know, an easier
00:40:45contested or lightly contested layup?
00:40:48Same thing with Luke, same thing with Keita.
00:40:51And the one thing, you know, Nick and I talked about this earlier, I'm just curious your
00:40:55thoughts on this.
00:40:56This team, we all know they're built to win a championship.
00:40:58That's the focus.
00:41:00But they also recognize there's a need to develop young players.
00:41:04How do you think Joe Mizzoula has been doing in that regard?
00:41:07And I'm thinking specifically about Jordan Walsh, who by all accounts, you know, he doesn't
00:41:13necessarily figure primarily in the rotation.
00:41:15And yet we're seeing him play, you know, rotation-esque minutes early on in the season.
00:41:21Well, this is my favorite topic of conversation, so I'm happy to talk about it.
00:41:25I think Jordan is an example of a guy who last year seemed, didn't seem, I never would
00:41:31have guessed that he'd be playing, you know, nine, ten minutes a game.
00:41:34And it's early, and Sam Hauser's limited with the injury and everything.
00:41:37But he's earned Mizzoula's trust.
00:41:38And I asked Mizzoula about it yesterday, and he said, if they're on the floor, I trust
00:41:41them.
00:41:42And I think we know that because there's been plenty of times where we've wanted to see
00:41:44guys on the floor, and Mizzoula is not playing that because he's not going to just play young
00:41:48guys just for the sake of resting, you know, his starters.
00:41:51Like, he's going to play guys that he trusts and that he feels like won't make mistakes.
00:41:54And Jordan today, when he played 13 minutes, I don't think he made a shot.
00:41:57He was 0 for 2.
00:41:58Yesterday, he was 2 for 3 from 3.
00:42:00So the three-point shot, you know, too small of a sample to really understand, like, what
00:42:03the situation is going to be.
00:42:05But I think just defensively, he just brings energy.
00:42:08He's understanding the system.
00:42:09He's not making, you know, not making many mistakes.
00:42:12He had a couple of good plays where he just, you know, got a loose ball or just was in
00:42:16the right place at the right time.
00:42:17And his job is to just not stand out.
00:42:19Like, if you don't notice that he's out there for three minutes, I think that's a win.
00:42:23Like, you don't need him to do anything spectacular.
00:42:24You just want him to see him blending in there.
00:42:26And I sat with him at shootaround yesterday for a while, and he was kind of talking about
00:42:30how he's been studying Drew Holliday film.
00:42:32Like, that's been the big thing that he's been focused on.
00:42:34He's constantly looking at how Drew Holliday is tailoring his defensive game for every
00:42:37single opponent that he plays and, like, watching the way that Drew Holliday then guards those
00:42:41players based off of what he's been studying.
00:42:42So, like, that's been a big focus for him.
00:42:45And he said he didn't, he said himself, like, he didn't think he was going to be here right
00:42:48now.
00:42:48Like, that was not, you have to guess.
00:42:50He would not be in Boston playing rotational minutes in November after, I think, the year
00:42:54he had last year in summer league, but that he's going to do everything he can to, like,
00:42:57stay in that, stay in that spot.
00:42:59So it's a good sign.
00:42:59It's a good sign of trust, and it's a good sign of what's to come for him because, again,
00:43:02he's just 20 years old still, and he has very limited NBA experience.
00:43:06Yeah, I mean, he's a young guy in the NBA who came into the league as a young guy after
00:43:12very, very, very short period of time in college.
00:43:14So, yeah, he's definitely got a lot of room to grow.
00:43:17Bobby, what do you think, Bobby?
00:43:20What is that?
00:43:21I'm trying to see what the emergency is here.
00:43:25Yeah, I'm glad that they're investing, playing, and sticking with their young guys.
00:43:33There's some bigger roles here and struggles.
00:43:38Like, the last two games with Cato specifically, I feel like the starts to those games weren't
00:43:42great, but they rolled with him, let him find some rhythm, and you're starting to see some
00:43:47real steps with him.
00:43:48Joe talked a little bit before the game about just his overall activity, ability to stay
00:43:52with guys on the perimeter.
00:43:54There was a moment he got switched on to Ball tonight where Ball just ended up whipping
00:43:57the ball out of bounds.
00:43:58I don't know if it was anything Cato did, but I just keep seeing more and more of those
00:44:01situations where Ball, or I mean Cato rather, is out on the perimeter defending, and this
00:44:10is too much, and able to hold his own.
00:44:16And in the case of Walsh, the shots from three still aren't falling consistently, right?
00:44:23And that's probably going to have to be his bread and butter, at least for now, offensively
00:44:27in this league.
00:44:28But they're still giving him steady minutes, night in, night out.
00:44:31And these were two games here where you didn't have your full complement of frontcourt players.
00:44:36So you tried some double big combinations in the first game.
00:44:40Tonight, you went more with Walsh in a single big, and I feel like the fact that they're
00:44:45mixing and matching, experimenting, trying some things.
00:44:47I know Noah's talked about that on her podcast.
00:44:49The fact that you are willing to lose some games here, if necessary, to see some people,
00:44:55younger people specifically, see some different combinations, and try some stuff.
00:45:00And just like last year, I know they dropped the game in Indiana, but they're largely winning,
00:45:06even while arresting Horford, even while missing Brown tonight.
00:45:09I mean, have you even mentioned Brown's absence tonight?
00:45:11We're going to talk about that next.
00:45:13I wanted you to finish, and hopefully find safe ground.
00:45:16I can't focus while you're here.
00:45:18You didn't even notice.
00:45:20I'm just like-
00:45:21Bobby was so locked in during that.
00:45:23I know.
00:45:23I'll be back.
00:45:24Yes, Bobby, we'll be waiting.
00:45:27No, but yeah, I mean, that was, yeah, I want to talk to you guys about that too, about
00:45:31just Jalen Brown and the hip and just, you know, what's Joe saying about that, the hip injury?
00:45:36Yeah, yeah.
00:45:38So, you know, we hadn't heard anything about the hip injury previously.
00:45:43I will say, like Jalen said after, I think it was Detroit, or yeah, I think it was Detroit,
00:45:48where he said, like, I'm just, I don't have the same burst right now.
00:45:50Like, it's just ups and downs.
00:45:51You could tell that there was something he didn't want to say, and I think it was the
00:45:53hip injury.
00:45:54And then Gary Washburn talked to him pregame, and he had in his report on The Globe that
00:46:00he's had, and he had an MRI at training camp, and then he's going to have another MRI now,
00:46:05and that it's something that's been bothering him.
00:46:07And so you never want to hear that.
00:46:09You never want to hear that somebody has a, you know, a lingering thing, kind of similar
00:46:13to, like, the Sam Hauser back thing, where it's, like, it's maybe nothing, but it's also
00:46:16maybe something that's going to be a substantial storyline here this season.
00:46:20So I don't know which one it is, but certainly they have the depth and the ability to win
00:46:25all of these games.
00:46:26I mean, I think every night they're going to, they're not going to ever be at a disadvantage
00:46:30just because Jalen's out.
00:46:31Like, that's just how deep this team is.
00:46:33And so they were totally fine without him tonight, as they were last year, anytime he
00:46:36or Tatum didn't sit.
00:46:38They didn't really miss a beat.
00:46:39But obviously, long term, you hope that it's, you know, the hip flexor, you always think,
00:46:43like, the worst.
00:46:43You think Isaiah Thomas.
00:46:45That's the first thing I thought when I saw that injury, but obviously, probably it's
00:46:48just a strain and something that'll just go away.
00:46:50Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
00:46:51And, you know, when he or Tatum is out, that means the other is the sole alpha leading
00:46:57the troops.
00:46:58And just your thoughts on how Tatum handled that?
00:47:01It seemed that, you know, Charlotte did what I think you're supposed to do in that situation,
00:47:05and that is, you know, give Tatum a little bit more attention than you normally would
00:47:09when his fellow all-star is not around.
00:47:11How do you think Tatum handled, you know, just the adjustments that Charlotte made to
00:47:15the Celtics not having Jalen Brown?
00:47:18Yeah, I mean, I think, honestly, I don't think it made that much of a difference whether
00:47:21or not Jalen was there in the sense of, like, he was getting doubled and he was making the
00:47:24right play.
00:47:25And like you said, like Peyton Pritchard ended up being the release valve a lot of times
00:47:29in this game.
00:47:30And so maybe if Peyton, maybe if Pritchard has an off night, we're having a different
00:47:33conversation because he had 22 points, which you can't take for granted, right?
00:47:36There's like that last year, a 22-point game would have been a huge story for Pritchard.
00:47:40I feel like he's just been scoring more this year than it's been kind of normalized.
00:47:43But at the end of the day, like they have, I think they're both very comfortable being
00:47:47the only one on the floor.
00:47:50And that's why Joe will sometimes stack their minutes or have, you know, one play the full
00:47:54first and another.
00:47:54And it's not an unusual situation.
00:47:56I almost feel like it ends up being in these regular season games where their minutes are
00:47:59more limited, that it feels like maybe half their minutes, they're one of, you know, they're
00:48:02the only one of the two out there.
00:48:04But it just, it makes it so that there's somebody else that's going to have an increased
00:48:07opportunity and whether or not they'll take advantage of it tonight.
00:48:10You know, Pritchard took advantage of it.
00:48:11Luke took advantage of it.
00:48:13You know, I think it was just, they kind of went to other guys and then we'll see like
00:48:15when Przingas is back and when Jalen is back, like those shots go away and other people
00:48:20have to sacrifice.
00:48:21And so I think it's good for them in the long term when they have opportunities because
00:48:24it gives, it gives guys a chance to be like, okay, I'm taking 18 shots today.
00:48:27Like I'm probably not going to do that when we have a full team.
00:48:30Right, right.
00:48:31And I think it's really good that Joe is finding ways to utilize the bench in a smart,
00:48:38sensible way.
00:48:40I don't think it's, it's not a coincidence that this game, even though the Celtics didn't
00:48:45necessarily blow these guys out, you never really felt as though their control of the
00:48:49game was lost.
00:48:50Charlotte made it interesting at moments, but you never really got the sense that, man,
00:48:54this game might get away from them.
00:48:56And then you start looking at the bench and, you know, Joe played five guys off the bench
00:49:01and four of the five had a positive plus minus when they were on the floor.
00:49:04And the only one that was negative was Tillman, who was like minus one and he didn't really
00:49:08play a lot to begin with.
00:49:11Just the overall development of that second unit, Noah, how do you see that playing out?
00:49:16I mean, are you, are you happy with what you're seeing as far as the development of the, of
00:49:20the backups, the reserves?
00:49:23Yeah, I think this is a second unit.
00:49:25That's not going to, you know, there's not multiple big scores on this bench unit.
00:49:29Like, you know, Sam has it right now.
00:49:31He's, you can tell he's not fully himself.
00:49:33As far as his minutes goes, he's been questionable slash like, you know, on the injury report
00:49:37for each of these games.
00:49:40On the sideline, just seeing, you know, watching him in person the last two games, he has like
00:49:44this hot pack on his lower back.
00:49:46He's constantly stretching, he's moving around.
00:49:48So this, this is something that's bothering him.
00:49:51And so he's a guy that I think when he's at full health, like he's one of the primary
00:49:55scoring options off that unit.
00:49:56And right now we're seeing maybe like a version of that.
00:49:59And so Pritchard's kind of been carrying that unit from a scoring standpoint, but this is
00:50:02a bench like last year as well, like their whole story and their whole point is not to
00:50:07put a point.
00:50:08It's not to score as much as possible.
00:50:10It's to just do the same things at the start as we're doing and play good defense and bring
00:50:14in energy.
00:50:14And a lot of times they're playing with Tatum, with Brown, usually.
00:50:17So, you know, they kind of just play around those guys.
00:50:20And it's, there's a reason why last year they had, you know, Sam Hauser, Luke Cornette,
00:50:24Peyton Pritchard have three of like the best four plus minuses in the league.
00:50:27And I think that last year it'll be, in this year, it'll be kind of similar.
00:50:31Yeah.
00:50:32Yeah.
00:50:32And obviously, you know, we're talking about just the bench, some of the younger Celtics,
00:50:37but let's flip the script a little bit and talk about one of the OGs, Drew Holiday.
00:50:43It just seems that Drew has been that guy that his numbers don't necessarily reflect
00:50:49his impact.
00:50:50He had 13 points, but damn, he hit some big shots for these guys.
00:50:54Bobby, just curious your take on Drew and just what he,
00:50:58not just tonight, but just in general has meant to this team this season.
00:51:03Yeah, I feel like pretty similar to last year here.
00:51:06We talked about in the Indiana game and even the first game here,
00:51:10he inserts himself or instills his impact when necessary.
00:51:16And the rest of the other time, I don't know if it's more management or laying back to allow
00:51:20guys to do their things or just simply space in the floor, which he's able to do too.
00:51:24You almost don't end up noticing him for long stretches until he hits a big shot or
00:51:30the game's going the other way.
00:51:31And I think tonight during that big run in the third quarter,
00:51:35he had a three at the tail end of it.
00:51:37So he often stacks up those plays.
00:51:39I feel like his defense was a little bit more impactful in this game as well.
00:51:45You know, not to go full John here, but I do think sometimes the quicker guards,
00:51:49the train man, the mellow balls of the world.
00:51:55Yeah, and his at this stage of his career, you expect it to be a little bit of a drawback there,
00:52:02but his ability to guard bigger guys, his ability to switch all that stuff, it's almost like you
00:52:07take it for granted.
00:52:08And I've said it a million times, as much as Porzingis got a lot of credit for changing
00:52:13everything last year.
00:52:14I feel like holidays, the guy you couldn't have made that run without.
00:52:16And I think it's going to be a similar case this year, his availability, his shooting ability,
00:52:21which just continues to sustain at a high, high level.
00:52:26It's unbelievable how consistent he's been from beyond the arc
00:52:29and his ability to defend a variety of positions here, which still seems at the highest level.
00:52:38What more can you say about him?
00:52:39Are you worried about his age, Bobby?
00:52:42No one's chiming in here as well.
00:52:44He's old.
00:52:46My NBA standard.
00:52:47It's not a worry, yeah.
00:52:49It's not a worry.
00:52:52It's more of an acknowledgement.
00:52:55Well, it's an acknowledgement that he's not going to be at his best every single night.
00:52:58He's probably going to need some nights off.
00:53:01Has he had a night off, Noah?
00:53:03No, not this season.
00:53:04Yeah, so that'll come at some point.
00:53:07And defensively, he's still probably at that all-NBA level.
00:53:11We'll see how it plays out over the full year here.
00:53:14But you're not going to be the best defender in the world forever here.
00:53:17So you want to see how that continues to progress throughout the course of a full
00:53:20season and how you're able to manage a guy like that.
00:53:23Because just like with Al, who obviously has looked like old Al at times early this year,
00:53:30and Al who's trying to just get through the regular season and have his best in store
00:53:36for the playoffs, I think Drew's in a similar place.
00:53:38Not quite as old as Al, obviously, but he's played a lot of seasons at this point, a lot
00:53:42of playoff runs.
00:53:43And so it's just something to watch as the year goes on here.
00:53:46There's no concern.
00:53:47He's played well so far.
00:53:49But with each passing year, it's like, all right, how much little bit do you lose there?
00:53:55Do you lose anything at all, Noah?
00:53:58Yeah, I mean, again, it's so speculative, the age stuff, because right now, he was voted
00:54:02by GMs entering this year as the best perimeter defender in the league, right?
00:54:06So nobody feels like right now he's lost a step.
00:54:09And so will he?
00:54:10He probably will in the next few years.
00:54:12Or he'll be like LeBron and he'll be 39.
00:54:13We're going to be confused at how this happened.
00:54:15So you just never know.
00:54:16For everything we've heard, everything we know about him, he's a guy that takes good
00:54:20care of himself, takes good care of his body.
00:54:21I do think that his game will translate well.
00:54:24Like he's strong, just the way that he moves.
00:54:26It's not like he's like a high flyer.
00:54:28And that's the main thing that he relies on.
00:54:30And the main thing is that he just knows his role so well right now on this team.
00:54:35And Charles Lee spoke to it.
00:54:36Charles Lee, who is super close to him, he said just the games that he has caught so
00:54:41far this season of the Celtics.
00:54:44Drew has looked really, really comfortable in his role and his responsibilities.
00:54:46And I think we forget, but there was a moment in time last year where he spoke openly about
00:54:50how he was still kind of figuring out what he was doing out there and what exactly his
00:54:55role was going to be and what his responsibilities were.
00:54:58And so, yeah, I think right now he doesn't have that learning curve anymore.
00:55:02He started the year really kind of knowing that and having all the full confidence that
00:55:05what he did last year worked because he was a critical, critical piece of that championship.
00:55:09And to me, the age thing is more of like we know that this is not a part of a core
00:55:15that's going to be going on for the next seven years.
00:55:17You know, like he's he has 34.
00:55:19Like, you have to think about that in the long term sense.
00:55:21But for right now, I don't think it's really I don't think it's really front of mind
00:55:25personally, at least.
00:55:27Yeah, I mean, he makes every OG in every industry feel good because he's playing at a really
00:55:34high level and he's making the plays that have to be made when they absolutely need
00:55:39to be made in order to push back any type of confidence the opponent might be having.
00:55:46One guy that it just seems every single night you go through all the guys that are playing
00:55:51really well and this guy just stays steady in that short list of standouts and that's
00:55:57Derek White.
00:55:58I mean, are we at a point where we take Derek White for granted?
00:56:01I mean, because you look at his numbers, he's not giving you Tatum and Jalen numbers
00:56:06per se, but he's damn sure giving you better than Drew and some of the other guys in their
00:56:10core.
00:56:11And yet it seems there's there's been very little buzz about his impact this year, even
00:56:16though for those of us who are watching, it's pretty clear that he's one of the he's one
00:56:20of the biggest difference makers.
00:56:22It's been huge.
00:56:23And I know Noah is going to take on it.
00:56:25We do have to squeeze in and reach for our real quick here because our fearless leader,
00:56:29Nick, I guess, wasn't able to there during the opening segment.
00:56:32So before we get to White, before we get to Tatum, in fact, who spoke to us not long ago
00:56:38here about the Grant situation, which will close the show with, I'm sure.
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01:00:39White.
01:00:40You got a hot take on white.
01:00:42I don't think it's hot.
01:00:44I think he's going to be an all-star this season.
01:00:46I think they're going to get three all-stars because they're going to have a really good
01:00:49record and there's going to be some reward for the way they won the championship last season.
01:00:54And they're going to get three all-stars, and it's going to be Jalen, Jason, and Derek.
01:00:58Because he's averaging 19 points right now.
01:01:01He's been one of the best defenders in the league on the perimeter.
01:01:05The blocks have been insane.
01:01:06I feel like we need to start replaying every single one of these blocks because every single
01:01:09night, I feel like I see a block that I haven't seen before.
01:01:11That was a big one night when they were pulling away.
01:01:14Yeah, I mean, I don't know how much they credit him for tonight, but he had a couple
01:01:17transition stops that just seemed like a lost cause, two points.
01:01:21He wasn't even the main defender out there, and he finds a way.
01:01:24He just finds a way to make it happen.
01:01:25And so I feel like at a certain point, we have to start rewarding that.
01:01:28And people really respect him league-wide.
01:01:31I think coaches respect him.
01:01:33I think general managers respect him.
01:01:34His value has really been established over the last few seasons.
01:01:38So in my opinion, I think that he will be an all-star of the season.
01:01:42Maybe that's a hot take, but I'm going to just start saying it, and maybe other people
01:01:47will listen and start saying it too.
01:01:49So I've thought about the shred too with the MVP race, and I don't know where Tatum
01:01:52stands at this point.
01:01:53The way the first couple weeks went, I guess, do show why it's a little sillier run away
01:01:58with that and make some bold proclamations off seven games here.
01:02:02So who knows where things are going to stand here by the all-star break in terms of who
01:02:06will make the team.
01:02:07Jaylen's hurt now.
01:02:08We'll get to that before the end too.
01:02:11Paolo's hurt.
01:02:12I mean, everybody's hurt across the league right now, and that obviously opens up opportunities
01:02:16for a guy like White.
01:02:17If an injury happens right before the all-star game even, he could fill in as an injury replacement.
01:02:23I think that's probably the most likely way that it would happen, Noah, because without
01:02:28going in all the logistics and ways that they decide this team, you're thinking in terms
01:02:33of guards, Mitchell, Garland's off to a great start right now.
01:02:39You're always going to have Trae Young in that mix.
01:02:42I'm trying to think of some other big names in the East.
01:02:45You got your Jaylen Brunson.
01:02:47He's going to be in there.
01:02:48You got, I mean, Scottie Barnes is hurt now.
01:02:53So, you know, there's some injuries creeping in here, and certainly the East isn't the
01:02:58strongest conference right now.
01:03:00So I'm not ruling out Maxie's another one.
01:03:02He'll be in that mix.
01:03:04So that's like five, six right there that White has to contend with.
01:03:07And when we're talking about stars, Noah, I still think that dominates a lot of the
01:03:10conversation here.
01:03:12I'm not ruling it out.
01:03:15The subs are positionless though, right?
01:03:17The injury subs?
01:03:19I believe so, yeah.
01:03:21That's how he's going to get in.
01:03:22It's going to be a positionless injury sub.
01:03:24If he gets in outright, either a ton of people got hurt, the Celtics are like 100 games ahead
01:03:31of everybody around the time voting's going on, or he's playing out of this world.
01:03:37And he is playing out of this world right now, Sherrod.
01:03:39He is, he is.
01:03:40And I think he will get in.
01:03:42I think he'll get in, you know, based upon what Noah was saying earlier.
01:03:45I just think their record is going to warrant three guys.
01:03:48And I think that there are going to be some judgment call, close call type players that
01:03:54coaches are going to have to, you know, it's going to be difficult to make that decision.
01:03:59But ultimately, most coaches that I've talked to about all-star voting say ultimately they
01:04:04want the guys that do the best job of winning games and got numbers to back it up.
01:04:10And if Derek White is giving you 17, 18 points a game, shooting around 50% from the field,
01:04:16high 30s, possibly low 40s from, you know, three-point range and defending the way he
01:04:23does, it's easy for a coach to pick him over, let's say, you know, Mikael Bridges
01:04:29or, you know, the second, you know, guard for Cleveland.
01:04:35Because again, if they have a really gaudy record and he's putting up
01:04:39solid numbers and he's making a clear and undeniable impact,
01:04:43that's what you need to get a third guy on the team that's going to be voted in by the coaches.
01:04:48So I think he's got a, I think he's got a better than average chance of getting in.
01:04:53Because I think ultimately the things that he does well and the things that the Celtics do well
01:04:58are going to be rewarded.
01:04:59And, you know, Noah, you kind of alluded to it, but this happens all the time.
01:05:03Usually guys are rewarded the year after they probably should have gotten their just rewards.
01:05:10There's a lot of folks who would look at that Celtics team a little bit differently.
01:05:14If they could go back in time and look at Jalen Brown, maybe a little bit differently.
01:05:18If they go back in time and Derek White as well,
01:05:21and they'll get a chance to make amends for that, so to speak, this year.
01:05:25And I do think Derek White, if he continues to play the way he does,
01:05:28and they continue to win at a relatively high clip, I think he'll get in.
01:05:32I think he'll be voted in by the coaches.
01:05:35So we do have some sound from Jason Tatum coming.
01:05:37He reacted tonight after, I guess, some convincing because he didn't want to talk about it,
01:05:44Sherrod, you could tell.
01:05:46I didn't want to get into the whole Grant thing here.
01:05:48The Grant thing had some moments tonight.
01:05:52Weird moments, booing from the crowd, certainly.
01:05:56It was an atmosphere that was anticipating something may be happening there.
01:06:00But nothing ever really did.
01:06:02They lined up one-on-one a few times.
01:06:04Some guys crashed into each other.
01:06:06Tatum looked pretty locked in.
01:06:09I don't know if angry is the right word, but pissed off.
01:06:14I don't know.
01:06:15There was definitely a different tenor to his game or just his approach tonight.
01:06:20Left the court pretty quickly after the game.
01:06:22Didn't really meet or greet with anyone too long.
01:06:25And then, Noah, you were in there.
01:06:26I got there a little late.
01:06:27I guess he didn't want to talk initially and then decided to take a couple questions about
01:06:33the situation here.
01:06:34And we'll get you that shortly.
01:06:35But what did you make of his night and his postgame here?
01:06:39Yeah, I mean, he was brief, and I don't like him.
01:06:41I think he's always happy to talk when he plays poorly, when they have bad losses.
01:06:47Honestly, the more time has passed here, I do think this annoyed him a lot, the situation.
01:06:53And this is just a reminder.
01:06:54We don't really know what these guys' relationships are like behind the scenes,
01:06:57who's super close with who, how often they communicate and things.
01:07:00There was something going on tonight between a lot of members of the Celtics and Grant.
01:07:04There was little moments with Luke, little moments with Derek.
01:07:08I was trying to film when the game ended, kind of where everybody was.
01:07:12And there was so much happening with Tatum skirted.
01:07:15Grant was trying to say hi to people, but nobody really was trying to-
01:07:19Yeah, so Grant got rejected and then made a pretty quick beeline out of there, right?
01:07:25It was tough.
01:07:25It was tough.
01:07:26We don't want to talk here today, Grant.
01:07:28Sorry.
01:07:30Cornicke in my handshake.
01:07:30It was a weird situation.
01:07:32And I wonder, like, I don't know.
01:07:34I think the play is one thing, but it seems like he had a weird reaction to it.
01:07:38The post-game stuff was weird.
01:07:39I mean, I didn't talk to him directly, but just from the videos that I saw.
01:07:42And so I wonder if this is going to become a thing now that he comes to Boston and people
01:07:46are already kind of a little on the fence about him, I think.
01:07:48But it certainly didn't help his situation.
01:07:52It did feel like a heavy storyline here, especially towards the end of the game.
01:07:55It was kind of building up.
01:07:56And by the fourth, it felt like there was always something going on with Grant and somebody,
01:07:59something like little, but there.
01:08:01Yeah.
01:08:02Just watching the game last night's game and this night or tonight's game, here's what I
01:08:07think happened.
01:08:08I think if you're the Celtics, Tatum and those guys, this was someone that you thought of as
01:08:14your brother.
01:08:15And your brother crossed the line that he didn't have to.
01:08:18And you're trying to process how this happened.
01:08:23How did we get here?
01:08:25And I don't think Grant did anything to smooth it out.
01:08:31If let's say you have a breakup and it's not a good one, then you kind of, you anticipate
01:08:37that something like this might happen.
01:08:40But I think everyone on the Celtics side thought that they were good.
01:08:43And what Grant did last night was not good.
01:08:46And it's raising, I think, a lot of questions about Grant.
01:08:49I mean, let's just rewind for a second and just marinate on this idea.
01:08:54How many players leave a team that drafted them, sign with another team, get traded from
01:08:59that second team, and those two teams wind up playing for the NBA championship?
01:09:04You were literally part of the two teams that are playing for a championship.
01:09:08And both, in some way, shape, or form, made it clear that they didn't want you around.
01:09:13So that's interesting, Sherrod, because I don't know if you saw, but late last night,
01:09:20Draymond Green sends out a couple of tweets on the situation.
01:09:23And we know how Draymond feels about Grant.
01:09:26We do, we do.
01:09:28Unbelievable, still, even considering that, even considering Draymond's past
01:09:33transgressions on the court.
01:09:35Draymond said, Grant Williams saying it's not intentional following JT
01:09:39like that is mad wild.
01:09:41And he's smiling about it.
01:09:43Thinking a blindside hit.
01:09:44And Draymond knows about mad wild, so.
01:09:48This one was great.
01:09:49I mean, they got better and better.
01:09:50There was three of them.
01:09:51Thinking a blindside hit on your mans is a smile-worthy offense means one of two things.
01:09:57You have zero awareness, or you a goofy.
01:10:01And both make you a goofy.
01:10:02Goofy.
01:10:04And then finally, he mad at JT.
01:10:07I never want to hear you reading a Draymond Green tweet again.
01:10:10Never, Bobby.
01:10:14He mad at JT about something, lol.
01:10:18And then a ring emoji and a emoji.
01:10:22He was supposed to keep him in Boston, lol.
01:10:26JT got a ring and dude let his frustrations out about it.
01:10:32Yeah.
01:10:33I mean, and I do think there's some of that.
01:10:35I do.
01:10:36Because Grant didn't want to leave.
01:10:39But there's just, they did not want him to be in Boston.
01:10:44And goes to Dallas.
01:10:45They did not want him in Dallas.
01:10:48And I'm still struggling to understand what the hell Grant was thinking last night, though.
01:10:57What's that?
01:10:58Does Draymond know something?
01:11:00Or is he just spouting off late night?
01:11:02I think he's just spouting off.
01:11:07Although now Draymond and Tatum are cool with each other now.
01:11:11I mean, you see whenever Draymond is around, Deuce is cool with him.
01:11:15And if Deuce is cool with him, you know Deuce's daddy is cool with him.
01:11:19So maybe he does.
01:11:21But again, it's just hard to understand what Grant was thinking last night.
01:11:27And it's really telling, Bobby, you know, and me and Nick talked about this earlier.
01:11:31You know, even with a lot of Celtics fans in the stands in Charlotte, okay?
01:11:36You anticipate that there'd be some booing.
01:11:38But to me, more telling was the lack of support from the few Charlotte fans that were there
01:11:44for Grant.
01:11:44I mean, it was like Celtics Nation, you know, in the arena was booing the hell out of him.
01:11:49And Charlotte fans were like, in the concourse, getting some nachos.
01:11:54Or those who were sitting there were just sitting there eating their nachos and popcorn.
01:11:58There was very little pushback on that.
01:12:01And that's surprising.
01:12:02That's very surprising to me.
01:12:04Because no matter how you feel about Grant, if you're a Hornets fan, he's one of yours.
01:12:11He's part of your family.
01:12:13And with him being in Charlotte, you would think it would be even more of a pushback
01:12:18of sorts.
01:12:18But there was nothing.
01:12:20Noah, you're about to say something.
01:12:21I'm sorry.
01:12:22No, no, my bad.
01:12:23The only thing is, there really weren't like a lot of Hornets fans here.
01:12:27Like, genuinely, for most of the game, I thought there were none.
01:12:30And then when they went on a little run in the third, I was like, okay, there's like
01:12:32a little group here.
01:12:33But it really, I don't know that it would have mattered if the fan base was behind him,
01:12:38because the building was really green.
01:12:40Walking around the con for us, it was kind of ridiculous.
01:12:42It was like, every single person was a Celtics fan.
01:12:45I was talking to people that came here for the weekend, who were trying to save money,
01:12:48and were like, this is the best way to see two games.
01:12:50So just for context, I don't know that there were fans to support him.
01:12:54But yeah, it was the weird dynamic.
01:12:55I mean, he did a little voting PSA pregame, and everybody's booing.
01:12:58And I think they were booing, not the PSA, but him.
01:13:01But I don't even know.
01:13:02So yeah.
01:13:03That was unbelievable.
01:13:05When he got the mic, we were like, what is he about to say?
01:13:08And then-
01:13:09We thought Sharad, they said, now a few words from Grant Williams before the game.
01:13:12He does get to apologize to Tatum.
01:13:17We thought he was about to grab the mic at midcourt and apologize to Tatum.
01:13:23I wish he would.
01:13:24That would have been awesome.
01:13:26That would have been awesome.
01:13:28But he would have got booed for that too, though.
01:13:32It'll be a story moving forward.
01:13:33I'm sure next time they'll play, next time they're in Boston, it's going to be a thing now.
01:13:37It's always like, when there's a former player, we always have like,
01:13:39the niece is niece Smith seeking revenge.
01:13:41I feel like it's always like that anyways.
01:13:42But now there's obviously something a little bit more concrete there.
01:13:45I will say, yesterday morning when we spoke to him, it was lovely.
01:13:48It was like 12 minutes of insight, reflection.
01:13:50He was so happy for the guys.
01:13:52So it was just, it's weird how quickly the feeling has changed.
01:13:55Because I walked away being like, this guy could not be happier for these guys,
01:14:00for winning the championship.
01:14:02That's what so confuses me a little bit, Sharad.
01:14:05You know, you've talked to Grant a million times.
01:14:07You've covered this team.
01:14:09That Grant off the court, who's so insightful and just so friendly,
01:14:14and just seems to be this great personality, transforms on the court.
01:14:20And all of a sudden, it's wagging the finger like crazy for replays,
01:14:25screaming at teammates, or just smashing in the guys like we saw over the last two games here.
01:14:30So I don't know if it's just the competition or the intensity of the game,
01:14:35what it is.
01:14:36But something just seems to go haywire in his head on the floor a lot of the times.
01:14:43And I think I have Tatum queued up here, his reaction to it.
01:14:47So we're going to play this in full.
01:14:48This is his post-game comments.
01:14:49Pretty short, pretty brief.
01:14:50Didn't say a ton about it here.
01:14:52But this was Tatum speaking about the incident for the first time.
01:15:04Just the teams in the second half.
01:15:06It seemed like you guys had to find a different way to win after a 16-point first half.
01:15:10How were you guys able to kind of adjust in mid-game when kind of a grinded-out came?
01:15:17I mean, you guys watch enough basketball.
01:15:20We play enough basketball.
01:15:21Every game isn't the same.
01:15:22There's 82 of them.
01:15:24You're not always going to shoot exactly how you want.
01:15:27But the objective of the game is to find a way to win.
01:15:31You know, we had a couple 25-point quarters on the defensive end.
01:15:34Trying to limit the team to 25 points or under a quarter.
01:15:38So finding ways to win when the shot's not necessarily falling for all of us.
01:15:45And, you know, we got to get stops.
01:15:47We had a good chance to talk to him last night.
01:15:50The situation that happened with Grant.
01:15:52He said he pointed to close friends that wouldn't take a shot.
01:15:55Damn, I'd hate to see if he was an enemy.
01:15:57Damn.
01:15:58What was your reaction to going through that with somebody who you spent many years with?
01:16:03Just what was your takeaway?
01:16:06I mean, I don't really want to talk about it.
01:16:07It's just got ready for the game today.
01:16:10We came to Charlotte, did what we were supposed to do.
01:16:14And we're going to Atlanta to try to get another win before we go home.
01:16:17When something like that does happen, is it part of you?
01:16:20Like, I want to score 40 the next time I play this guy.
01:16:23Circle it on the calendar.
01:16:24Obviously, this was an evening situation.
01:16:25We come back the next night.
01:16:26How do you want to respond to that in such a situation?
01:16:33No, I don't ever make it about one person.
01:16:35I understand who I am, who I am in this league.
01:16:38And come out and play the right way.
01:16:43It's not about a matchup or anything.
01:16:45So just come out and try to dominate.
01:16:50Give my team the best chance to win and play in the right way with that scoring,
01:16:55rebounding, screening for other guys.
01:16:58The objective is to make sure we give us the best chance to win.
01:17:02So it's not about no situation, no other person.
01:17:08Okay.
01:17:09That was the gist of it.
01:17:10Gary asked him about guys playing more physical and stuff.
01:17:13And he talked more about the game here than anything specific to Grant here.
01:17:18So he steered clear of it, obviously.
01:17:20As we mentioned, he didn't want to talk last night.
01:17:24Understandably, maybe frustrated, maybe annoyed.
01:17:29I know Gary reported, I don't know if you said this earlier,
01:17:32they talked on the phone and Grant apologized.
01:17:35And Tatum, while annoyed, accepted the apology.
01:17:39So yeah, he was pissed.
01:17:41You're right.
01:17:42And I can't blame him, though.
01:17:43Because I'm pretty sure the vibes that Grant gave you guys when he talked to you that morning
01:17:48were kind of the vibes that he gave Tatum before they started playing.
01:17:51And then all of a sudden, the Celtics have the game relatively in hand.
01:17:55And he comes down, and that was a cheap shot.
01:17:57There's no other way you can describe what he did.
01:17:59It was a cheap-ass shot.
01:18:02And you would expect that.
01:18:05It wouldn't surprise you if a young player who's trying to figure his way out through
01:18:09the league does something like that.
01:18:11But this wasn't just another young player.
01:18:12This was a guy that you went to battle with for years.
01:18:16Someone that you, by all accounts, considered a friend.
01:18:21And for him to do something like that, it just doesn't make any sense.
01:18:25Like, what was there for Grant to gain by doing that?
01:18:28That's the thing that I have struggled with trying to put this thing in perspective.
01:18:34It wasn't—what, you're trying to rattle Tatum?
01:18:37I mean, you're trying to get in his head?
01:18:38You should know him well enough to know that that's not going to do it.
01:18:44I still think, looking back on it, it wasn't trying to send a message.
01:18:47It wasn't trying to hard-follow him or anything like that.
01:18:51I think it was in a desperation moment, ball going the other way, game getting away from
01:18:57them a little bit, game not going Grant's way.
01:19:00He tried to do something aggressive in that moment, and it went completely haywire.
01:19:06And he ended up making a ridiculous, dumb play.
01:19:10He looked like an ass for doing that.
01:19:13I mean, if we're being honest and candid—and Grant is a really good guy.
01:19:16For those of us who've had a chance to talk to him, get to know him a little bit,
01:19:19there's a lot to like about him.
01:19:21But in that moment, he looked like an ass for doing that.
01:19:25What do you think it was, looking back on it now that you've watched it a million times?
01:19:29I have no idea.
01:19:30I feel like the more time passes, the less I understand really what happened.
01:19:35And, you know, again, I don't think his intention was to hurt him.
01:19:38That would be—that's just crazy to think about.
01:19:40But, you know, why would you want to hurt your friend?
01:19:41But it was a dumb play.
01:19:43And I think the aftermath, maybe it was more annoying, like the post-game stuff, the grin.
01:19:48Like, I know people just didn't like the optics of that.
01:19:50So long story short, though, I think my big takeaway from this was Tatum was annoyed by it
01:19:55maybe more than I initially anticipated,
01:19:57just based off the fact he really didn't want to talk about it at all.
01:20:00But also, Tatum is just so good at the stuff that he just knows exactly—
01:20:04We knew.
01:20:04We talked about it—we talked about it yesterday, Noah,
01:20:07that he was going to come back with the most polished,
01:20:10prepared way to approach the situation.
01:20:13And it ended up just being not talking about it.
01:20:16And I honestly think this is the stuff that makes him less popular league-wide,
01:20:20is, like, people love, like, the Anthony Edwards soundbite
01:20:24that would have come out of this game.
01:20:25You know what I mean?
01:20:26The Jalen one from yesterday.
01:20:28Yeah, the Jalen.
01:20:29Like, it's fun, it's cool, all this stuff.
01:20:31But, yeah, with Tatum, he just—I don't think he wants to be in this story.
01:20:35Like, I don't think he wants any part of the story.
01:20:36And he's not going to be in the story as much because he literally said nothing post-game.
01:20:40So kudos to him for being really good at this, honestly.
01:20:44Maybe part of that, Sharad, too, is that they feel like they squashed it privately.
01:20:48And that's what Tatum maybe wanted to do yesterday
01:20:51before saying something heinous about Grant in the media
01:20:55before even being able to talk to him.
01:20:57Because obviously they weren't able to talk on the court there
01:21:00or briefly after the game in the time that we talked to Grant there.
01:21:04So I think that's a big part of how he handled it, too,
01:21:06is if they are friends, if they are cool,
01:21:09you want to handle it on the side rather than in front of the microphone.
01:21:12Which I understand.
01:21:15Only other thing I got on this is that quote from Jalen yesterday.
01:21:20All-timer.
01:21:21I thought Tatum and Grant were friends.
01:21:24I guess not.
01:21:27Classic.
01:21:28Classic.
01:21:30To Jalen's point, I mean, when I think about people that I consider friends
01:21:34that I compete with, would I do that to them?
01:21:39Probably not.
01:21:41Probably not.
01:21:44Even if I do, then there's probably something going on that's between me and them
01:21:48that no one else knows about.
01:21:50Or I've suppressed and I'm releasing it in that moment.
01:21:54It just was so out of character for Grant to do that to anyone,
01:21:58let alone to a teammate, a former teammate.
01:22:02And again, as we look at this 48 hours, 24 hours later, it makes even...
01:22:08I'm with you, Noah.
01:22:09I don't know what the hell he was thinking.
01:22:12I don't know what to make of this.
01:22:15But I do know that this was something that bothered Tatum in the moment.
01:22:22And the fact that he wants very little, if anything, to say about it.
01:22:27I'm not sold that he's completely put this behind him.
01:22:31I think it's one of those things where he's not going to focus on it,
01:22:34but make no mistake about it.
01:22:36The next time that you see the Celtics getting ready to play the Charlotte Hornets,
01:22:40he's not going to think about the 32 points or the 29 points,
01:22:43or the fact that every single shot that was a non-three-pointer went in for him
01:22:47in this second game.
01:22:48He's going to think about that hit from Grant.
01:22:51And it's going to bother him.
01:22:52It's going to irk him.
01:22:53Now, will it impact his play?
01:22:55We don't know that.
01:22:56But obviously, with Tatum, he's so good.
01:23:01It could have no impact on him and he could drop 40.
01:23:04He could be obsessing over it and could still drop 40.
01:23:07You just never really know.
01:23:12And I wish I knew why Grant did it.
01:23:15It's done.
01:23:15It's over with.
01:23:16We've got to move on.
01:23:16I get that.
01:23:17But damn, you would like to have some closure to it as to knowing what precipitated him doing that.
01:23:25Well, Noah and I were going to discuss the Jalen situation coming up.
01:23:29But while we have you here, Sherrod, it looks like he's going to get a second MRI,
01:23:33according to Gary.
01:23:34He already had one on a hip flexor strain here and had been dealing with it for multiple games,
01:23:40Joe Mizzoula said before the game.
01:23:41Explains maybe the 1 to 21 three-point shooting stretches on here and some uneven play over the
01:23:47last handful of games here.
01:23:49And it looked like he aggravated a handful of times in that last game.
01:23:54Maybe there was a plan to manage it here because Portford was playing the front end and
01:23:59Brown ends up sitting in the second half here.
01:24:01So we'll see how much time he misses.
01:24:04I'd have to imagine if he aggravated in the first game and that's how this went.
01:24:09And now he's going to go get another MRI after checking out.
01:24:12Initially, he could miss some time here.
01:24:15I'm not going to speculate on how long, but I think they'll obviously be cautious with
01:24:20this here in the regular season.
01:24:21And it's too bad he's missed time here.
01:24:24Their hamstrings, this and that.
01:24:25So usually doesn't miss too much time when he's hurt.
01:24:28But I could definitely see him at the very least being out Monday.
01:24:31I would hope that they are extremely cautious with bringing him back because he means so
01:24:36much to this team and their goals.
01:24:38And their goal at the end of the day is to win a championship.
01:24:40And we talked a little bit about this earlier.
01:24:43Guys like Jordan Walsh, guys like Sam Houser, boy, man, Lonnie Walker sure would be a nice
01:24:48little something to throw in there right about now, huh?
01:24:51That's another conversation for another episode.
01:24:54But the Celtics have some options if he's not able to go in the next game or few games.
01:25:01Luke.
01:25:03Yeah, I want Luke as my starting small forward.
01:25:08Now slide Al over and make Luke your first center.
01:25:12Bobby, we gave you Luke hour earlier.
01:25:14We're not going to end this on a damn conversation about Luke replacing Jalen Brown on a temporary
01:25:20basis.
01:25:21No, not happening.
01:25:24But there's a potential where we can see a little more Jordan Walsh and give Jomez a
01:25:29credit for getting Jordan Walsh out there now so that if there's a chance where he may
01:25:34have even more of an increased role, it won't be this completely like fish out of water
01:25:40moment for him.
01:25:40He'll actually have some type of muscle memory that he's developing on what he needs to do
01:25:45to help this team win and be impactful.
01:25:48So Jomez and just the development of the young guys, it may very well be one of those things
01:25:54that we see pay off in the next week or so.
01:25:56If Jalen Brown is not able to go and then all of a sudden you're seeing a little bit
01:25:59more of a Jordan Walsh or Peyton Pritchard might have a more prominent role offensively.
01:26:05The Celtics have some options if Jalen Brown is not able to go, and that's one of the many
01:26:09reasons why so many of us think this team is going to repeat because they're deep and
01:26:15they have shown the ability to withstand a key player in their rotation, not being around
01:26:23for a short period of time.
01:26:25Get anything there, Noah, or we'll obviously talk about it in a moment here, but no, just
01:26:31no, just I think the only other thing I would say is just the reality is that, you know,
01:26:35it's there's Jordan Walsh, but this whole the continuity from last season, you know,
01:26:39we were talking about like, is anybody going to get an opportunity this season?
01:26:42Because there's the exact same group coming back like you almost needed there to be injuries
01:26:47for guys to have a chance.
01:26:49But the reality is it's an NBA season like there's going to be injuries.
01:26:51And even a guy like Drew Peterson, who's in Maine right now, like he he's this is the
01:26:56second season with Boston.
01:26:58You know, he looked really good in preseason, like maybe he comes down and gets a chance
01:27:01like I don't know.
01:27:02But if there's something more extended here with some of these guys, like it's not like
01:27:05they don't have people to draw from.
01:27:06Like there's a very robust player development process that I think the team really buys
01:27:10into and really prides themselves in.
01:27:12And it's in moments where Jalen Brown has a strained hip flexor where that comes into
01:27:16effect.
01:27:16And a lot of times it's kind of just dormant waiting to take place, waiting to showcase
01:27:19the fact that there's guys that have gotten a lot better.
01:27:21So right now, Mimi's getting that chance because Przingis is out.
01:27:25But there's going to be other opportunities for guys.
01:27:27And I'm just excited to see what happens.
01:27:29And hopefully the Jalen Brown thing is not something that's a long term concern, because
01:27:32if it is long term, then none of that matters because they need him for the playoffs.
01:27:37A lot of bumps and bruises, a lot of stretching before this game treatment.
01:27:40How's it still banged up playing through it?
01:27:42Brown taking a seat here and assessing what this injury is going to bring.
01:27:47We'll have more coverage down in Atlanta.
01:27:49I guess just me.
01:27:50I'm heading down there.
01:27:51Noah, I'm going to head back to Boston for the Warriors game on Wednesday, which talk
01:27:57about more drama.
01:27:58We're going to have another Tatum story that day, which who a shroud Blakely.
01:28:04Thanks for holding it down with Nick Joe.
01:28:06So to start the show here again, thanks for Noah down here in Atlanta, covering it all
01:28:11with CNS Media SB Nation.
01:28:13I got a Jordan Walsh piece out over on Celtics blog, as you mentioned earlier, I guess I'm
01:28:17coming with Kemba Walker shroud.
01:28:18I just caught up with him down here starting what he said probably isn't going to be a
01:28:24coaching career, but something to do for now, something to step foot into retirement.
01:28:29So yeah, because he's not leaving Charlotte.
01:28:31That's that's it.
01:28:32He's not leaving the city of Charlotte.
01:28:34So yeah.
01:28:35Yeah.
01:28:36Great seeing him around infectious smile.
01:28:39Amazing guy.
01:28:40So appreciate him giving me some time down here to catch up with him and check out that
01:28:46CNS Media Celtics all access YouTube channels here.
01:28:49And we'll be back on Monday night.
01:28:54I saw a 745 tip off.
01:28:57I guess that's what they're doing down there in Atlanta.
01:29:00So I'll see you guys down there.
01:29:02Have all the updates and we'll see you after the game here on the Celtics postgame show.
01:29:06Good night, everyone.
01:29:16I think it's an option.
01:29:23That did not sound like a chair.
01:29:25It was a freaking chair.
01:29:27It does sound like a chair.

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