Millwall draw reaction plus Sunderland injury and suspension latest pre-West Brom
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00:00Hello, welcome to the Raw podcast brought to you by The Sunland Echo.
00:27My name is Jason Jones, joined by Phil Smith and James Copley on this rather brisk Monday
00:33morning.
00:34I think it's better to say.
00:35Sunland back in action at the weekend, obviously an international break, but they went down
00:38to the Den on Saturday afternoon, 1-1 draw, late 1-1 draw as well, it has to be said,
00:43Millwall score at the end of that game.
00:48Difficult one to assess I think Phil, I mean is that a good point given the personnel issues
00:53at Sunland Harder or is it a disappointing one given how late they can see it?
00:57I think it's, I think in the context of where they were in terms of the team and what's
01:04the season generally, I think it's a good point.
01:06I think at the start of any season, I think a point away at Millwall's a good point, like
01:11their form this season has been brilliant, especially at home.
01:14I think when you add to it the list of absentees, which obviously got bigger ahead of the game
01:17with Dennis Serkin missing, when you saw the inexperience on the bench as well.
01:22I think if at two o'clock he'd offered pretty much any Sunland fan a 1-1 draw, I think they'd
01:26have snapped your hand off for it to be honest.
01:30And I think that was, so in that sense the result was a positive and I think also the
01:34positive was for such a reshuffled team and for such an inexperienced team to play so
01:38well for the first 40 minutes or whatever it was before obviously the long stoppage.
01:44I think it was a huge positive and I think when you step back, you can take a lot away
01:48from the game from the fact that I thought Mienda looked a real threat on the right.
01:51I thought Tommy Watson looked much better on the left.
01:54Connolly and Isidore showed they can play together.
01:56Connolly put a real shift in when he was on the pitch dropping into the field.
01:59So loads of positives, it's just obviously the worst possible way to draw a game 1-1,
02:04which is to concede in the 93rd minute, you know, seconds after you have a big chance
02:08to finish it off and make it 2-0.
02:09So I think in the context of having chucked away two points against Coventry, which let's
02:15be honest someone did, I think it's really, really frustrating and it obviously lifts
02:19the pressure even more really for this next couple of games.
02:22So I think in the context of where someone were in the season, I think it's a point gained.
02:27But very obviously it's two points dropped in sort of the context of what they did against
02:30Coventry, you know, and having been lead.
02:34But I think that, you know, this is a better point than the Coventry one, if that makes
02:38sense is what I would say.
02:39I think you have to take some positives from this as well as the Coventry one.
02:42I mean, it feels like an even bigger missed opportunity now, doesn't it?
02:44Because if you've won that game, this feels like a really, really good point and not so
02:48much now.
02:49So, yeah, as you said, I think a really weird one to assess.
02:52Phil sort of alluded to it there, James, but Sunderland started at a canter, I think it's
02:59fair to say, much the better team and a first goal for the club for Aaron Connolly as well.
03:04Yeah, that was a great finish.
03:06Absolutely delighted for him.
03:07Obviously, he's come in being very open about his struggles, which has endeared him to Sunderland
03:13fans.
03:14So, excellent, excellent finish and a real marker of his quality.
03:17I agree with Phil, I thought he did well, sort of playing up top with Isidor, but then
03:21dropping in.
03:22I think, though, Sunderland looked really good in that first half and I don't think
03:27that break helped them.
03:29Obviously, there was two medical emergencies in the middle of all and we obviously wish
03:33them well.
03:34So, the game was paused for about half an hour and then they came back on to finish
03:38the first half.
03:39Then they were away for the second half and Sunderland didn't seem to react well to that,
03:45although what you have to say is that it's the same for both sides.
03:48So, you can't really use it as an excuse because Millwall experienced the same disruption
03:52and they came out for the second half better.
03:55I do agree with Phil.
03:56I think a point at the den is always a good point.
04:00Sunderland, I don't think, have not won there since I think it's 1995 under Peter Reid.
04:05So, it's a long, long time.
04:08I think given the selection challenges coming into the game, I said on social media I would
04:13have snapped your hand off for a point.
04:15Sunderland got a point.
04:16However, when you are leading with two minutes to go and Milan Aleksic misses that chance,
04:23it is really, really hard to bear.
04:25I do wonder, though, whether there is a slight trend emerging where Sunderland seem to drop
04:30off in the second half of games.
04:32La Brice's formation, the way La Brice plays, he is happy for other teams to have the ball
04:37and I think that's okay when Sunderland go a goal up, but when a team is then chasing
04:44the game to allow them to have a lot of the ball can present risks.
04:48Obviously, Sunderland have done it magnificently earlier on in the season against Burnley and
04:52the like.
04:53So, it has worked for them, but sometimes I think when you allow the opposition too
04:57much of the ball, you are inviting trouble and I think you will concede late goals.
05:01So, that's something perhaps that I would like to see rectified, maybe a little bit
05:06more control in the second half of games if Sunderland are leading, a little bit more
05:09possession.
05:10Big caveat to that is, though, there was no Joe Bellingham in that midfield.
05:13Patrick Roberts, obviously, Mayenda did well, but he wasn't there.
05:16Trey Hulme.
05:18So, it comes against the backdrop that that was a severely depleted Sunderland squad.
05:23However, coming from the Coventry game as well, where Sunderland surrendered the lead,
05:28you don't really want these trends to start emerging.
05:31Four drawn games on the spin, unbeaten in nine, I think it is now, eight or nine.
05:36So, it comes back to what we said on the podcast a couple of shows ago.
05:40It's whether you're a glass half full or glass half empty person, but I do think there's
05:44a genuine middle ground.
05:45I'm not overly concerned yet.
05:47Obviously, Sunderland second with Leeds' massive result away at the Swansea 4-3 and
05:54the Diane Embers.
05:55So, yeah, I think there's a lot to go at and a lot to come from the game and the games
06:00are coming freaking fast as well.
06:01It makes Tuesday night and Friday night really, really interesting.
06:06And obviously, a much altered team through necessity, really, wasn't it, at the weekend?
06:12Just sort of wanted to pick your brains on a few of those alterations, Phil, and what
06:16you sort of made of them.
06:17Obviously, we saw Luke 0-9 shift out to right-back and Dan Ballard come into the centre of defence
06:23alongside Chris Mepham.
06:24I mean, what did you make of that partnership at the heart of defence?
06:28And do you potentially see a sort of solution moving forward whereby maybe Ballard usurps
06:350-9 a little bit?
06:36A lot of people seem to be quite impressed with his performance on the weekend.
06:40I think it was a good game for him.
06:42I think that's the...
06:44I thought Ballard and Mepham were amazing in terms of dealing with balls into the box
06:48and actually mostly dealing with long balls.
06:50One of the breezes when I spoke to him after the game, his big frustration was that I actually
06:55felt someone had dealt pretty well with the long balls, the crosses into the box.
06:58What he was frustrated with is that someone didn't react for the second ball.
07:02So quite often, Ballard and Mepham were winning those headers, they were winning those challenges.
07:06But someone wasn't really taking advantage of that and Millwall was just basically able
07:09to recycle possession.
07:12So I definitely think that, yeah, I think there is definitely a chance that at times
07:16Ballard and Mepham play together.
07:18I think the thing about 0-9 is, in my opinion, I think he offers more than both those players
07:24in possession.
07:25So I think if it's a game where someone is playing, you know, against a side who's maybe
07:29quite happy to sit off, who's sitting quite deep, I think what 0-9 can offer you in terms
07:33of his ability to switch the player.
07:34We see him play those long passes out of the winger and create openings that way.
07:38He's also really comfortable obviously kind of striding out with the ball.
07:41I think the way he's developed that aspect of his game and what he can offer makes him
07:44a really important player.
07:46But I also think that in terms of defensive ability and defensive situations, understandably
07:52because of that, especially with Ballard's physicality, but also the fact that they're
07:55two kind of natural centre-halves, if you like.
07:57I think obviously in that kind of situation where you're under a lot of pressure and you
08:01have to defend your box, I think Ballard and Mepham are kind of an obvious partnership.
08:06I thought they were excellent.
08:08Again, Mepham's sort of anticipation, his positioning and his calm, I think, in an atmosphere
08:14like that just stood out again.
08:15So I think that it's definitely a partnership I can see happening, but I also think it's
08:20one where we shouldn't expect to see it too much because I just think what 0-9 offers
08:23on the ball in certain games makes him a bit of a lock for the team.
08:26But yeah, it was interesting because I did think someone dealt well, really, with how
08:30they defended their box.
08:31It was kind of in front of it and out wide where they seemed to lose it.
08:35But I disagree slightly with James.
08:37I don't think someone dropped off on Saturday.
08:40My sense was, if you look back to, say, a Burnley game, a Middlesbrough game at home,
08:44I felt someone dropped off because they were happy to let the opposition have the ball
08:48sort of just inside their half.
08:50On Saturday, I actually don't think it was deliberate.
08:53I think they just got penned in.
08:54I think Millwall, like I think anyone who has been to Den, will tell you the atmosphere
08:59is it's not like anywhere else, really, in the division.
09:01Millwall were just chucking big strikers on one after the other.
09:06And I think they just penned someone back.
09:07And I think the mistake or what someone weren't able to do is they weren't able to fully
09:12take advantage of the counter-attacking opportunities.
09:15I think sometimes you have to give credit to the opposition and you have to accept
09:18where you are as a team.
09:19I think Millwall were always going to make it difficult in that second half and get up
09:23the pitch because of how direct they are, because of the strength they've got.
09:26What you should be able to do is make more of the space they're leaving behind.
09:29And that was my frustration with Sunderland.
09:31Having said that, I do think tired legs were a massive part of that.
09:34I think you saw someone like Rigg, for example, who was brilliant in the first half of the
09:37hour of the game.
09:38Towards the end, you know, he wasn't able to make some passes that normally, you know,
09:42we see him do really easily.
09:43So, yeah, I thought there was loads, as I say, I thought there were loads of positives
09:46and I put Ballard and met them up there.
09:47I think the second half, I think Millwall were just able to turn the screen.
09:51The fact that Le Bris at the moment doesn't really have the options to make subs is kind
09:54of a massive problem, really.
09:58And the flip side of that, James, is obviously Luke O'Neill shifting out to right back.
10:02We've spoken a lot about Sunderland's lack of cover for Trae Hulme at the present moment
10:07in time.
10:08I mean, did his performance suggest to you that actually maybe it's not so much of a
10:12concern for Regis Le Bris?
10:15I think O'Neill did well enough at right back.
10:17He's obviously played there quite a lot before.
10:20However, for the goal, perhaps left a little bit in no man's land, pushing forward.
10:28But, yeah, I think he is a, you know, to be brutally honest, I think he is a good option
10:32at right back if Trae Hulme is out.
10:33I think Trae Hulme is quite obviously the best option at right back, but it's pleasing
10:37now across that back line that Sunderland seemingly have a few options.
10:42I thought Adji Alisi was absolutely superb.
10:45I think to come back in from a cold from a, what, two or three-month injury, I think
10:48it was.
10:49I think he was out back end of August from memory.
10:52So, quite a while and he was brilliant playing at left back, which is not his natural
10:57position, but he does play there.
11:00You know, there was the blow with Dennis Serkin.
11:03That's supposed to only be a short-term injury.
11:06So, if he gets back quick, we've got Alisi, 09 Ballard-Mepham that can play
11:11centre-back and then 09 who can play right back alongside Hulme.
11:16Then you've got the option of Leo Hjelda who missed out, making the squad against
11:21Millwall with a minor injury.
11:23So, all of a sudden, that back line does look like it has some strength there.
11:27I think full-back is still a position on either side really that we'd like to see
11:31Sunderland strengthen just because of the injury records.
11:33Obviously, Niall Huggins isn't going to be around for a long time.
11:37And, of course, Chris Mepham picked up his fourth yellow card against Millwall.
11:40So, he's one game away from a ban.
11:43So, I sense over the Christmas period and towards the back end of the season,
11:47there's going to have to be, you know, rest, rotation, suspension, injuries.
11:51So, it's good that Sunderland have those options back for the moment.
11:55And hopefully, as well, that Dennis Serkin isn't out for too long.
11:58The club statement seemed pretty optimistic and it's only a wrist injury,
12:02although he has had to have an operation, I think, hasn't he, Phil?
12:04So, I think, yeah, that back line for Sunderland looks reasonably healthy
12:08at the moment.
12:11And out-and-wide positions, Phil?
12:13Obviously, two players who probably wouldn't be, well,
12:16certainly aren't some starting options there,
12:18Lisa Mayender and Tommy Watson.
12:19We'll come on to Mayender first just because it's not a position
12:22that we've seen him play an awful lot for Sunderland out on that right flank.
12:25I mean, were you impressed with what you saw him deputising for Paddy Roberts
12:29at the weekend?
12:32Yeah, I really was.
12:33For me, he was one of the big positives to take away from the game.
12:36James mentioned Alisse there, which I completely agree with.
12:39I thought he put in such good performance in the context
12:43of how long he'd been out for.
12:45The fact that, you know, he was being thrown straight back
12:47and also the fact that he'd never played with Watson before
12:50and was able to get into some really good positions.
12:52So, I think Alisse was a big positive.
12:54Obviously, Connolly's goal.
12:55But other than that, Mayender was the one for me because that option,
12:58that position, sorry, is not one where Sunderland are particularly strong
13:02because Perveda is obviously on this kind of long road
13:05to full fitness, if you like.
13:07Roberts, you know, I know there's been a bit of debate at times,
13:10but I think broadly speaking, Roberts has been excellent this season.
13:12But behind that, with Abdullah Barre seemingly, you know,
13:15out of Lebris' thoughts, even though he's been on the bench at times,
13:19he's never really kicked the ball.
13:20It's a little bit of a problem position.
13:21And what we saw was, you know, Tommy Watson going over there,
13:24but I just don't think, maybe in time he can operate on the right,
13:27but I just think it takes away so much from what he's best at.
13:30And I think when you've got such a young player coming to the side,
13:33you want him in his strongest position where he feels most comfortable,
13:35which is clearly on the left.
13:36So I think for Miendy to be able to show that he's a genuine option
13:39on the right, I think is really important.
13:41And, you know, I don't think, I wasn't surprised at all by his performance
13:44because if you think about his best traits, you know,
13:46it's very well suited to playing out on the right,
13:48particularly in a counter-attacking team.
13:50We know he presses well.
13:51We know he's quite active defensive work,
13:54but he carries the ball really well and he's quick.
13:56And although, you know, because he's such a young player
13:58and he's a forward player, you know,
14:00there are times where he doesn't quite make the right decision
14:02or, you know, his touch isn't great or whatever,
14:04but generally speaking, he's quite explosive.
14:06He can go past players easily.
14:08And we know he's got a pretty powerful left foot.
14:10It's an option I genuinely really, really like.
14:12And I think with Isidore doing so well, I think with Connelly's experience,
14:16you know, it's a big thing for Miendy because otherwise
14:19there isn't going to be loads and loads of opportunities,
14:21I think, for him to get in the team.
14:22So I think for him, you know, this is a good way
14:24for him to get into the side, whether it's on the bench
14:27or occasionally when he's rotated in if Roberts needs a rest.
14:30I think it's a really good route in for him to show what he can do.
14:33And I think he's potentially going to be, you know,
14:36quite a good option for Sunderland who, as we've said,
14:39loads this season haven't always had options on the bench.
14:41And I think that's hurt them.
14:42And I think I like the idea that, you know,
14:44after Roberts has kind of done his magic for 70 minutes,
14:47you know, he potentially got some tired legs, game opening up a bit.
14:50I really like the idea of Miendy coming on from the right.
14:53I think it could be really effective.
14:54I've got a lot of, a hell of a lot of time for Miendy,
14:57the way that he's sort of, the work he's done since he came back
15:00in the summer from a loan at Hibs where he wasn't kicking a ball.
15:02I think he's been excellent.
15:04I honestly think that was one of the, like I say,
15:06Elisa and Miendy off the right were two of the big positives for me,
15:09because I think that's two real new options, if you like,
15:12for the brace.
15:13And I think that's going to be massive in the sort of coming weeks.
15:18Phil mentioned him there, James.
15:20Obviously we spoke at quite a bit of length about Abdullah Bar
15:23and Adil Ashish as well, actually last week.
15:26I mean, the fact that both sort of failed to get a look in again,
15:29what do you make of that?
15:31Do you think it perhaps signifies that the right might be on the wall
15:34following this one?
15:36Yeah, I think so.
15:37I think it pretty much every turn this season,
15:39wherever there's been an argument to use Abdullah Bar or Adil Ashish,
15:44it's not been taken by Rajeev Slippery.
15:46He clearly doesn't fancy them.
15:48You know, obviously Watson's preferred over on the left.
15:51Aleksic came on ahead of Ashish or Bar.
15:54Miendy was preferred on the right-hand side.
15:57So, he clearly doesn't fancy them.
15:59They were there, I think, on Saturday to make the subs bench,
16:02but he didn't turn to them in a pressurised situation
16:05when, you know, Sunderland were holding on for a potential win.
16:11So, I think that tells you everything you need to know.
16:13And I would expect potential loan or permanent moves in January.
16:18If not January, then I think definitely the summer.
16:20The caveat to that in January would be if they do move on,
16:23then Sunderland would probably need one or two bodies in
16:26to just replace them in terms of Sunderland's squad
16:29ahead of sort of a busy Christmas period and end to the season.
16:32But yeah, I can't see it happening for them under Lebris at the moment.
16:37You know, things can quickly change
16:38and they might have to be started at some point.
16:41Personally, I can't see it because the indications from Lebris,
16:44as I say, at every turn in pre-season and the beginning of the season,
16:48are that he doesn't fancy them.
16:50And I think the thing that did it particularly for Bar
16:53was probably the Preston Carabao Cup game.
16:55I think he started that game from memory
16:58and he just looked very, very erratic.
17:00And it perhaps is a little bit harsh on him
17:02because he's not had that run of games that he did have last season
17:06because he was keeping Roberts out the side at times last season.
17:09And his return in terms of goal contributions isn't bad,
17:13but I just think in terms of Lebris' game model,
17:16which is his favourite word,
17:17you don't always know what you're going to get from Abdel Abar.
17:21He could get you a goal or an assist,
17:23but he does tend to lose the ball quite a bit.
17:25And if he's in that sort of off mood,
17:28I think it could be quite detrimental to your team.
17:30He does tend to lose it in bad positions.
17:33So, I think that's probably the reason why he's not trusted.
17:36And then Aouchiche, not really sure.
17:38I do rate him in terms of his quality,
17:40whether he doesn't think he can execute what he wants either.
17:44Lebris, and obviously he sold him at Lorient as well.
17:47So, yeah, I just can't see it happening for either player, unfortunately.
17:52And I don't say that with any pleasure because, you know,
17:56Abdel Abar has given us some decent moments
17:58and I was looking forward to his development at Sunderland,
18:00but it doesn't work out for every player.
18:02And ideally, Aouchiche came highly rated.
18:04I think he signed a five-year contract.
18:07I thought he was hung out to dry by Michael Beale at Ipswich away.
18:10I think he has shown some flashes,
18:12but sometimes under a certain manager,
18:14it's just not going to happen for you.
18:18I mean, what do you make of it, Phil?
18:20It's an interesting situation, isn't it?
18:22The way that both have sort of plummeted out of contention over the past few months.
18:28Yeah, I don't really have an issue with it in terms of,
18:32I think ultimately, you know,
18:33your point of how coached to make difficult decisions
18:36and he's made a judgment call, I think,
18:37based on what you see behind the scenes as much as anything.
18:41I think over the first couple of months of his tenure,
18:44Abar was obviously a bit unlucky in the sense that
18:47he was injured for most of pre-season.
18:48So that obviously took away an opportunity to get up to full speed.
18:51And, you know, James Wright,
18:53you mentioned the Preston game where he didn't play very well.
18:55I think it's tricky, isn't it,
18:56in that scenario when you haven't had a lot of football and what have you.
18:59But ultimately, you know,
19:01I think that Lebris has had a very good start of the season.
19:08I think most of his calls have been justified.
19:10You know, I mean, there was a bit of debate at the start of pre-season.
19:12I remember about, you know, Joba Aouchiche in terms of the start in 11.
19:15I think, you know, to be fair, Lebris has been vindicated, hasn't he,
19:18on that front. It's not slight on Aouchiche.
19:20I just think it looks like a good decision now.
19:22The bit that I find weird is I don't really get this thing of like,
19:26oh, they're part of the plans, they're part of the plans,
19:28they're part of the plans.
19:30They're obviously not, are they?
19:31Because, like, if they're not going to come on in that situation where,
19:34you know, some of them are out on their feet
19:37and there's clearly a need to bring players on, to introduce them.
19:43You know, that's the bit that I find a little bit weird.
19:46I don't get what the point is on having them on the bench
19:48with absolutely no intention of using them.
19:50I don't, I'm not really sure if that saves.
19:53I think them playing under-21s, football,
19:56I guess they're not thrilled about it, but you can understand it
19:59because there's a need for them to keep their match fitness.
20:01It's going to be in everyone's interest to find them,
20:03maybe in January, that's both something down the players.
20:05So to keep their match fitness ahead of January is really, really important.
20:08So I get that totally.
20:10But it's almost like this dance of, like, oh, you know,
20:13the door's still open for them, you know, they can play their way in
20:16and they're on the bench.
20:18I just don't, I'm starting to find it a little bit bizarre,
20:20especially after Saturday, where, like, well,
20:22if they're not coming on in that scenario,
20:24they're just never coming on, are they?
20:26So, you know, Miendo, I thought was brilliant,
20:28but the last 10 minutes, he was clearly out on his feet, you know,
20:31because he hadn't started the game for however long.
20:33So that's the bit, that's the bit I find a bit odd.
20:36The decision itself, I think, look, ultimately,
20:38I'm fine with, you know, your head coach has to make difficult decisions.
20:41And broadly speaking, he's been vindicated in the results that he's produced.
20:45But I find the whole thing of them being on the bench and stuff a bit odd.
20:49I'm just not sure who that's kind of serving at this point,
20:51because they're clearly not going to get on the pitch.
20:56One man who did get on the pitch, James, Milan Aleksic,
21:00obviously a long-awaited Sunderland debut for him.
21:03He's been at the centre of a lot of, sort of, discourse after the game.
21:06He missed that really good opportunity.
21:08Millwall then go almost immediately up the other end and find that late equaliser.
21:13I mean, what did you make of that moment?
21:15And more broadly speaking,
21:16what did you make of his first performance in a Sunderland shirt?
21:21When he came on, he had a decent couple of touches.
21:24He did misplace a few passes,
21:26but just looking at his sort of stature, his ability on the ball, his touch,
21:31I actually thought, wow, I can see why Sunderland have signed him.
21:34Like, there's technical ability there.
21:36You know, he's 19. He looks reasonably assured.
21:39It's a big ask to come on when your team is defending a lead at the Den.
21:44Phil mentioned that atmosphere,
21:45but it's one of the toughest assignments in the Championship.
21:48He's 19, coming over from a new country, by all accounts,
21:50hasn't got a massive grasp of the language yet.
21:54You know, that chance, it's a really, really good save by the goalkeeper.
21:59And he's really unlucky that, actually, it doesn't go out from a corner.
22:02And then Millwall go up the other end and score.
22:05Ideally, you'd like him to bury that chance,
22:07but there's a whole host of things that could have prevented that goal going in.
22:10I don't really place any blame at the door of Milan Alexic.
22:15When I was watching it live, I was like, oh, you know,
22:18heading between the television and the laptop,
22:20I was like, should he have perhaps gone for the corner?
22:22But he's actually playing in clean through.
22:25So, if he turns his back and goes for the corner there,
22:28you know, that would probably have caused equal amounts of fumes.
22:31So, I don't think he needs to be hung out to dry.
22:33I've seen some interesting comments about him.
22:35It's his first 20, 30 minutes of football at the Den.
22:39I don't even really, judging by Lebris' comments,
22:42think it was planned for him to come on and do that.
22:44Obviously, it was necessitated by the injury to Aaron Connolly.
22:49I think he's going to be a good player for us.
22:51Hopefully, there's a reason the club have invested heavily in him.
22:53I think reports of 3.8 million.
22:55So, he might be a slow burner.
22:57It might take him a little while,
22:58but I was hugely encouraged, to be honest, from what we saw from him.
23:02I think he looks tidy.
23:07Obviously, James mentioned a slight knock to Aaron Connolly, Phil.
23:11I mean, looking ahead now, the games are going to come thick and fast,
23:14starting with West Brom in midweek.
23:16I mean, where does Sunland stand in terms of suspensions, injuries?
23:20Are there any players that you would expect to perhaps come back into the side?
23:23Any players who you think may be featured at the weekend
23:27who might struggle to make that game on Tuesday night?
23:31Yeah, I spoke to Connolly after the game.
23:34He said it wasn't an injury.
23:35He'd had a bit of a spell of dizziness.
23:37So, I think they just brought him off as a bit of a precaution, really.
23:40So, he was absolutely fine by the time I spoke to him.
23:43He was pretty confident that he could play this week.
23:45But that will obviously be something they'll have to monitor and check.
23:47But, fingers crossed, he'll be able to play.
23:49Obviously, Hulme, Roberts and Bellingham will all be back for Tuesday night,
23:53which is massive, really.
23:55Just in terms of what it adds to the bench, as well as the knock-on effect.
23:58Because you'd probably think all three of those will come into the team.
24:02I'm trying to think.
24:03Sirkin, Jeldren, Roos, all, I think, pretty small injuries.
24:08Certainly Sirkin.
24:09I think it's just that because he had this operation,
24:12I think basically it just hadn't fully healed in time for him to play on Saturday.
24:16But I think it's literally a matter of taking it day by day.
24:20And he could be back at any time.
24:21There's a chance he'll play tomorrow.
24:23I think Friday is possibly more likely than tomorrow.
24:25But he's definitely not being ruled out.
24:27Jeldren was there on Saturday.
24:29So, it's clearly not a major injury.
24:31It's just something that kept him out of the squad.
24:34So, hopefully, he'll be available soon.
24:36So, it will look a lot better in terms of the squad depth starting tomorrow.
24:41And then, hopefully, that will continue to improve.
24:43But, as James mentioned earlier, Meckham's now on four yellows.
24:48So, him, Job and Rigg are all on four yellows.
24:51And I think there's three games left before the cut-off.
24:53So, that's going to be one to watch.
24:55Because, obviously, all three of those players would be a big miss.
24:57So, yeah, I think we'll see quite a few changes tomorrow.
25:01Hulme, Job and Robertse would all, I think, come straight back in.
25:06And, obviously, the positive is then that means you've got three players
25:09who can change the game, drop them to the bench,
25:11which is going to be really important.
25:12Because Saturday, I think, was yet another example where you saw the opposition.
25:15We talked a bit about Sunderland dropping off in the second half.
25:18I do think part of that is not deliberate.
25:21It's a reflection of the fact that consistently we've seen the opposition
25:24being able to make three, four substitutions
25:26and get fresh legs on the pitch when Sunderland are retiring.
25:29Now, Labriez does seem pretty cautious of his subs.
25:32He's not someone who's going to chuck four subs on after an hour.
25:34But I definitely think that's been a big factor in some of those kind of games
25:38where we've seen Sunderland drop off.
25:42And, obviously, Job, Bellingham,
25:44almost certainly going to come back into that starting line-up, James.
25:47I mean, Sunderland are still yet to win a game without him this season.
25:50How much of an impact will his return have on Regis Libre's side, do you think?
25:56Massive. I think over the course of his three-game ban,
25:59I said on the podcast a couple of shows ago,
26:01but I genuinely think he's been Sunderland's most influential
26:05and best player so far, pound for pound this season.
26:07I think his absence is really notable.
26:10His physicality, his tackling ability,
26:13he is not adverse to doing the dirty work in midfield.
26:16He provides the platform for other players,
26:18but he's also got extreme amounts of quality on the ball.
26:22Hopefully, he comes back sharp.
26:24Obviously, he was away with England under-21s, wasn't he?
26:27Played a couple of games, but obviously, he's had a rest from the Championship.
26:30So, hopefully, he comes back firing on all cylinders.
26:33I'm hoping for a similar performance.
26:35I think he was rested, wasn't he, against Plymouth last season?
26:38Didn't he come on at the Stadium of Light and score?
26:42So, hopefully, he's back and firing on all cylinders.
26:45The caveat to that is that he's on four bookings as well.
26:48So, he's a yellow card away from another suspension,
26:51but until that happens, you can't really worry about it.
26:54But I think him coming back into the fold is huge,
26:58and Trey Hulme as well on the right-hand side just adds that little bit more balance.
27:01As I say, I think 0-9 is definitely an option there.
27:04He didn't have a horrendous game against Millwall by any standards,
27:08but I do prefer him in the middle of defence,
27:11just given his passing ability, his range of passing.
27:14So, yes, it's good to be getting these suspended players back.
27:17And, you know, two massive games coming up as well
27:20against West Brom and Sheffield United.
27:22Two good teams and lots to play for.
27:27Absolutely. I think that's roughly, probably,
27:30about all we've got time for this week.
27:32So, we shall call it a day just there.
27:37Yes, thank you for listening along.
27:39It's been a pleasure on this Monday morning.
27:42I'm trying to find my Outlaw script, and it has disappeared on me,
27:45so I'm going to have to do it off the top of the door.
27:47Yes, this has been the Raw podcast.
27:49Thank you to Phil, thank you to James,
27:51thank you to you for listening along at home.
27:54We are broadcast on Shots TV.
27:57If you want to keep up to date with all of the latest in the news,
28:00then please do so on the Echo.
28:02Phil and Matty can give us a follow on social media as well.
28:05We shall catch you next week. Thank you very much.