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~~~~~
Video Information: 17.10.22, Interview with Kuntal, Mumbai
Context:
¬ Are there enough resources on earth to support us?
¬ What is the minimalist movement?
¬ Why is minimalism significant?
¬ What does China say about having children?
¬ How many children one should have?
¬ Do we realize how inappropriately we use air conditioning?
Music Credits: Milind Date
~~~~~
Be a part of the Live Sessions: https://acharyaprashant.org/hi/enquiry-gita-course?cmId=m00026
📚 Want to read Acharya Prashant's Books?
Get Free Delivery: https://acharyaprashant.org/en/books?cmId=m00026
📝 Read 3 handpicked wisdom articles, just for you: https://acharyaprashant.org/en/articles?cmId=m00026
~~~~~
Video Information: 17.10.22, Interview with Kuntal, Mumbai
Context:
¬ Are there enough resources on earth to support us?
¬ What is the minimalist movement?
¬ Why is minimalism significant?
¬ What does China say about having children?
¬ How many children one should have?
¬ Do we realize how inappropriately we use air conditioning?
Music Credits: Milind Date
~~~~~
Category
📚
LearningTranscript
00:00My name is Kuntal Joyshar. I am a mountaineer.
00:03I have something to say. There is a very famous line which is called the survival of the
00:31fittest. Now, I being an actor, I am also a medical practitioner. I studied cardiology and
00:39as an actor I have always advocated less makeup, simpler ways of life to all the people who would
00:47follow me for example. But say I take my own example. Today I want to go and live in a forest.
00:53I will only ask one thing and that is my security. Security of if I will survive or not. That is all.
01:02Only that will be my question at that time. Otherwise, I will manage. But the security
01:07of my survival by the conditions that I will be in. What am I supposed to get as an answer for
01:14that? Will I survive if I decide to go at these places where maybe people have not been or tried
01:20to live for too long. I am sure today people have tried to live a life away from cities and stuff.
01:24Yes. But what if I go in a path where nobody has gone and I am living there. I will only be concerned
01:29for my security. Actually, degrowth does not mean that we necessarily have to go to the jungle and
01:36wipe out all civilization and dump all technology. That is not really the thing. It merely means
01:44sustainability. Act in a way that is sustainable. The kind of resources we are using today. The
01:53earth simply does not have enough to provide for us. If the entire population of the world
02:00makes as much use of resources as the average American individual, we will need 17 of planets
02:11like ours. 17 earths is what we need. From where will we get all that? Do we have those minerals?
02:21Do we have even fossil fuels are going to run out? They are anyway going to run out. Why not
02:28develop better technologies? Why not wean yourself away from them? So minimalism is not about getting
02:37rid of even the things that really mean something to you that really are essential. It means
02:43minimize what is inessential and in the process probably maximize what is essential. So minimalism
02:52is actually good news. It does not mean that you have to go to the extreme of reducing your
02:58consumption to zero. Even animals in the jungle, they do consume. Even animals adapt physical
03:07nature to an extent so that it suits their needs. Haven't we seen, for example, dogs dig up the
03:15earth when it is quite hot? In some sense, they are modifying the landscape to suit their needs.
03:24Birds build nests. So we too are entitled to build homes for ourselves. But we are not entitled to
03:33go absolutely crazy. We cannot make homes that are going to implode. We cannot do things that
03:40are self defeating. After all, whatever we do is for the sake of our own welfare, is it not? We
03:46want to do good to ourselves. But what if that which you are doing is so mindless, that it is
03:54another step towards our own destruction? That's the thing that we need to think about. Climate
03:59change is actually a crisis of consumption. It's just that the common man is anyway not in a
04:09position to consume a lot. He has an intention to consume a lot, definitely, but not in a position.
04:15Given a chance, he would binge on consumption, no doubt about it. No doubt about it. But the
04:23ones who are actually in a position to consume today, they are the ones who are contributing in
04:29a big, big way. And they ought to be stopped in their tracks, there need to be regulations,
04:35there need to be taxes. And when they are stopped, that would also send the right message to the
04:44common population because they are the ones admired as role models. If they are stopped,
04:49not only are they stopped, they also need to be kind of publicly censored or reprimanded for the
04:56kind of irresponsible lifestyles they are not only living, but actively advertising to others. What
05:03they today do there, up there, becomes the aspiration of millions of peoples down here.
05:10So if we want to change these people, it has to start from there. It's just that even if it has
05:19to start from there, these people have to raise a big clamor.
05:49we can even imagine. They have exceeded already at that age. Today, two, three-year-olds don't
05:56want to have, you know, I don't know, simple things which we were given when we were two and
06:02three. They want to have gadgets and technology and they want to consume way more than we ever
06:07consumed. So how do you increase the consciousness or give them the, you know, collectively make
06:13them appreciate a lot more even the information that you're providing?
06:17Even this that we are doing here is a collective exercise in education. So it's education that
06:25matters a lot. What we are saying here will go to a lot of people. The kids can be trained either way.
06:35We have both the things present within ourselves. The tendency to be ignorant of who we are,
06:49what would really satisfy us, what would make us joyful, and therefore choose the wrong means
06:57towards gratification. That tendency definitely exists. The tendency of ignorance, the lack of
07:04self-knowledge, that definitely exists. Equally the potential to know, to realize. You tell the
07:12kid something that the kid didn't know of and she looks at you wide-eyed. You see, there's something
07:20within the kid that was waiting to be awakened. And it's not as if the kid is very resistant to
07:28the truth. In fact, nobody likes to be lied to. Truth is something we all love, right? Does anybody
07:36like a deceiver who keeps hiding facts to you, who does not tell the truth to you? Nobody likes that.
07:43So there is something within us that loves the truth. And it's present right since when we are
07:48an infant. So if you tell these things to them, and if you can tell these things to them in an
07:55interesting way, in a far more interesting way than we have managed here, especially me. So I'm
08:02a bad storyteller in that sense. But if we can manage to be more interesting to our kids and
08:09tell them these things, and show them that the bird that's there, we are killing her both actively
08:17and passively. The kid might not really comprehend numbers and correlations and coefficients and
08:28stats, but the kid definitely knows the bird. And if you tell the kid that what we are doing is
08:34killing the bird, and the bird will soon no more be there. Not only will the bird no more be there,
08:41even the possibility of more birds will vanish, the tree itself won't be there. And the temperatures
08:48would get so bad that the entire species of the bird would be extinct. It would mean a lot to the
08:56kid, a lot to the kid. I know of kids, they saw one of those government sponsored visuals that
09:10told that if you chew tobacco, you get cancer. And the kid successfully managed to make his
09:20grandfather quit tobacco. And the grandfather was habituated to tobacco since decades. But the kid
09:30successfully managed that. So kids have a lot of power, because they have not been yet, yeah,
09:37yet, yet terribly socially conditioned. So that's the reason why, in my endeavors, I try to reach
09:44out to young people as much as possible. Kids, I do not have much access to them. But young people,
09:54and they are the ones because who will be the worst sufferers, right? The older ones would be
09:59gone. The tragedy would blow up in all its disastrous effects in another 10-20 years. So
10:11the ones who are born, let's say around or after the year 2000 in this century, they'll be the ones
10:19to take all the impact on their chests. It's going to be very, very bad for them, very bad for them.
10:27Temperature, rainfall, humidity, mental state, economic welfare, everything would suffer in a way
10:36we are not even imagining today, because we are being distracted towards a lot of inconsequential
10:43things. We are being made to think of that which does not matter. Look at how the mainstream media
10:50and the social media, everything is brimming with mindless entertainment. And that is crowding out
10:57the real issues that must come to us. Nobody is talking of the real things, whereas this is going
11:02to hit you so hard, so hard. I mean, what do you think when all this will happen, mental health
11:10will remain okay? No. In fact, it would have an effect even on social relationships. You know,
11:17that's another piece of data.
11:24Men are far more inclined to dismiss climate change than women.
11:33And men are responsible many, many times for climate change than women.
11:39So the aspect of patriarchy too is involved here. It's considered manly, for example,
11:47to burn, burn fuel, burn this, burn that, have the burning tip right in the middle of your lips.
11:56So that aspect too is involved here. Then there is race that's involved here. The white man
12:02is far more responsible for this. And not only that, the companies run by the white man,
12:07we are talking of BP shell here, they are dumping all their waste and a lot of
12:19the ill effects of their carbon on people of colour. So everything is going to blow up because
12:27everything is at stake. We think no, only the temperature will rise a bit. So what will we do?
12:33We'll adjust our air conditioners. How does that matter? Or we'll find another planet.
12:38Just kidding. Sorry. No, no, that's very important. The fellow is a big role model.
12:44The fellow is a big role model. And he's saying climate change does not matter. He's saying we
12:50rather need to have more kids, we need to procreate, do this, do that. This population
12:55explosion is at the core of climate change because it is so much in line with the philosophy of
13:01having more. Just as you want to have more furniture, you also want to have more kids.
13:06And the super rich have thrice the number of kids as the average individual, the average couple.
13:14I wanted to ask you, that was exactly going to be my question. 2018-19, this is a very personal
13:20thing. But my wife and I were discussing 11 years of marriage, we need to plan a kid. And I was not
13:28in for having a kid and my wife was, we need to have at least one kid. Because I was constantly
13:33contemplating over ethics of having a kid, not just from the aspect that, hey, we are going to be
13:39producing another consumer. So I was thinking, here's the massive amount of contribution that
13:45I'm going to create, like, do for climate change contribution. But then also bringing a kid in this
13:52kind of a world, where there's so much mental stress, so much of this happening. So I wanted
13:57to get your sense because there's also this constant thing of us, human race also surviving.
14:03If we don't procreate, how are we going to survive? So, so many of these things that happen.
14:08Just today, if you look at the newspapers, China, she's in pink. He says China needs
14:17more kids. So we are going to tweak with policies so that China has more kids. Otherwise,
14:23it's going to interfere with economic growth. We need more hands, more workers, more young people.
14:28And if we don't have kids, how will we have all of that? So, you see, I used to have this position
14:36till around four or five years back, kindly desist from having any kids at all. It's just that we
14:44want people to be cooperative. And being in public life, I have learned that if we take extreme
14:50positions, what we get is extreme reactions. The blowback is not useful at all. So if you tell
14:59people that if you want to be on the right side of climate activism, then you must not have any kids.
15:07Then they just drift away from all climate discussions altogether. They say if we get
15:15into it, we will be prohibited from having kids. So better say have one kid. That's okay. That's
15:21fine. Because even having one kid would mean, effectively would mean population decline.
15:28If a man and a woman have just one kid, that is largely okay. If you have no kids,
15:35obviously, that's wonderful. But that's a personal thing, a very, very intimate thing,
15:40and not an advice one can dispense. I cannot tell my neighbors not to have any kids,
15:47but I can advise them not to have too many of them. Stop at one, please stop at one. And if
15:52you are too crazy about having kids, all right, at the cost of feeling guilty and feeling guilty
15:59your entire life, go for two. Go for two. I do not want anybody to have two kids.
16:06Nobody should have two kids. But when I say you may have two kids, it is to bring in line
16:13those people who plan to have five. Because there are people who think that unless they have a full
16:19nest, life is not worth living. And the fullness to me to them means lots of cars, lots of furniture,
16:26and lots of kids and lots of zeros in their bank balance, you know, more is better, more is better,
16:32just have more, more, more, the same lack of philosophical depth. So just have one kid.
16:40But somewhere or the other, it will totally depend on the economy, right? For example, in Japan,
16:44there is a lot of population that are very aged, right? So they need kids. So even if we start
16:50having one kid, then there will be a point when the population pyramid will be like we have a lot
16:54of old people, then we'll be like we need to have more kids. So there are a lot of old people then?
16:59Then like the population will be like the younger generation will be very less.
17:02So?
17:03So we will need more young people to, yeah.
17:06Something is less, the numbers are not there. So why do you need more people?
17:13There is a philosophical disconnect here. Logical disconnect. Yes, in the population pyramid,
17:20right? The proportion of youngsters has reduced. Now, why does it need to increase?
17:26Then who will work?
17:28Why do you need to work?
17:29The workforce will need people, right? To sustain the...
17:3180% of Britons say that their work does not meaningfully contribute to the world at all.
17:39The ones who have understood life, they are talking about reducing work hours as much as
17:44possible. What is this obsession with work? Do you understand its philosophical basis?
17:49What you're saying is unless I work, how will I get more and more and more?
17:53Why do you need to work so much? Is life there to slog?
17:58And if you have to slog, slog for the right reasons. Why do you need to just work,
18:01work and work? You know, we have to uphold the economy. Why do you have to uphold the economy?
18:06Why do you have to uphold the economy? How is the economy a holy cow?
18:12What's so sacred about the economy? Please tell me.
18:16Do you want welfare or do you want economics?
18:19And economics is not necessarily contributing to welfare.
18:23We'll need to take this head on.
18:28It's all right to not have great GDP. It's all right not to have great income. I'm not saying
18:34that you should rush towards bankruptcy. No.
18:38Don't quote me in an extreme sense. But I'm asking you, how is it important to have scorching pace
18:46of economic development? How? Let it be there. Fine. You are doing well. At this moment,
18:52do you really bother? How much money do you have? There is something more important,
18:56something far more engrossing going on. And all those thoughts are not there.
19:01All those thoughts come to you when this thing is not there. This is what is sacred. That is not
19:07sacred. That at most is a facilitator that helps you buy these cameras. But is it these cameras
19:13that we live for? No. If we do not have this, these cameras are meaningless. What is important?
19:19This discussion or the money that buys these cameras? And remember, were we not obsessed with
19:26money as a society? Were we not that obsessed? We wouldn't have needed to record this on camera.
19:32Even these cameras are needed because the rest of the society is obsessed with money.
19:36Otherwise, the four of us can happily have a sweet, intimate conversation here,
19:40sip some tea, and then spend the afternoon pleasantly as nicely as possible, right?
19:46That would be a great way to spend an afternoon. So, the philosophy and the purpose of life,
19:52according to this would mean, eat, drink, have fun, and talk a little.
19:55As trivial as it sounds, please tell me what's wrong with that. Please tell me what. In fact,
20:01when you gather a lot of money, that's exactly the end that you want to achieve.
20:07The ones who have dumped millions into their accounts, is this the state not what they have
20:14dumped that money for? Dumped in the sense of gathered. Ultimately, that's what you want,
20:20eat, drink, have fun. And if that can happen, even with a reasonable amount of money,
20:26not an extraordinary level of money, what's wrong with that? What's wrong with that?
20:30Eat, drink, have fun and have great conversations, sit like this, talk, wonder, meditate,
20:37have some compassion, let a little bird come here, sit and participate.
20:41But what's wrong with all of that? If people would have started thinking like this,
20:44say like 30 years back, then maybe we might not be having the things that we already have right now.
20:50Say the AC, I know you will say that in that case, maybe AC is not needed.
20:54But like, where is that stopping and we can think of that, this is the point where we can chill.
21:00Listen, kid, it's not the air conditioner that's really a problem,
21:04right? Do you know how badly we use air conditioners?
21:08Do you understand that? Do you see how we use air conditioners even when there is no need?
21:16I know of people who put the AC at 18 in the month of May in New Delhi,
21:25right? And then sleep under two layers of quilts.
21:39I know of people who want to enjoy both the feel of fresh air and air conditioning.
21:47So long distances, Mumbai to Goa, they would cover with the AC on,
21:55AC on full blast and the pains are lowered. I need to have the best of both worlds.
22:04So don't take it to extremes. We are not talking of not having the internet at all.
22:10We are not talking of having no clothes to wear. We are talking of being sensible.
22:17And sensibly, we can be sustainable.
22:27She was wondering yesterday, why does Bombay have so few SUVs? You have luxury cars here,
22:33not so many SUVs. Because the value system is different. Delhi, if you are somebody,
22:38you need to show it off by having a Fortuner. You know, it's muscular. Do you see the patriarchy
22:45there? And that's the land of patriarchy. Bombay is a bit more feminine, at least more balanced.
22:53So people don't feel the need to have huge trucks, Fortuners, this, that. So you have
23:00more Mercs here, BMWs here, not saying that everybody must have a Merc or a BMW, not saying
23:05that. But just pointing out how our consumption is driven by our false values. That consumption
23:11is not driven by our real needs, but by our false values. Real needs, I'm all in favor of
23:19addressing them. Right? You need a vaccine. We must have an industrial complex to develop vaccines.
23:25You need computers. We must have all the technological growth possible.
23:30We must be able to launch satellites. We must be able to go to other planets.
23:33It's the intention I'm talking of. Are you going there to exploit that planet or are you going to
23:39know that planet? What is science for? To know or to have exploitative technology. You get into the
23:48core of the atom to have nuclear energy, which is clean or to have a Hiroshima.
23:57The intention is what I'm talking of. We need to know who we are, why we exist.
24:02And that's when we'll be able to put some limit to our lust for consumption.
24:09Wow.