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00:00High noon on a Celtics Wednesday, which means it's time for Justin Turpin.
00:05Call him Terp.
00:07Here on WEI, you can check out all his work on WEI.com, on Twitter and Instagram, Justin
00:13M. Turpin.
00:14A good follow for all your Celtics info out there.
00:17What's going on, Terp?
00:18What's up, guys?
00:19What's going on with this squad?
00:20Trying to make heads or tails of the Celtics.
00:23It's going to take me a lot to get worried or anything like that, but the way they've
00:28been playing over this stretch.
00:30Last time we had you in, there were some hiccups who were wondering what the hell happened
00:33on Christmas and everything else.
00:35They've ping-ponged wins and losses over their last five games, barely hung on to beat the
00:40Pelicans.
00:41What in your mind is going on with them right now?
00:43I brought some numbers.
00:44You want me to dive right in?
00:45Oh, hell yeah.
00:46Bring the numbers.
00:47Dive away.
00:48Yes, paint the picture.
00:49We don't do enough numbers.
00:50Terp typically is running Twitch, so you know we're light on numbers typically.
00:54That is not our specialty.
00:56So give us some numbers.
00:57Speaking of numbers, phone number if you have Celtics questions for Terp, 617-779-7937.
01:02A guaranteed time to talk Celtics every week here on Jones & Keefe High Noon with Terp.
01:07Give us the numbers.
01:08All right, so they started out 19-4.
01:10Over that stretch, they attempted 51 three-pointers.
01:13That was first.
01:14They made 19 at a 37.3% clip.
01:17Opponents attempted 35.3.
01:19That was the fourth fewest, so there's a big disparity there.
01:22They made 12.5, and they shot at 35.4.
01:25So that's six and a half threes per game.
01:27And so real quick, sorry, I was going to do the math, which I should have not done.
01:31So you go ahead.
01:32Six and a half threes.
01:33He is the math guy.
01:34You're the math guy over there.
01:35I've got it all covered.
01:36I came prepared.
01:37Six and a half threes clocks out to 18 to 19 points per game on the perimeter.
01:42That's a big difference.
01:43Since the Grizzlies game, which I'm kind of using as a line of demarcation, they're nine
01:47and seven.
01:48They're attempting 47 threes, so four fewer.
01:51It's still first, but a little bit less.
01:53Shooting 16.3 and knocking down a 34.6% clip.
01:58Opponents are making 14, shooting 36.7, and they're doing it on fewer attempts at 38.2.
02:04So what was an 18 to 19 point advantage on the perimeter is now down to just six.
02:09Okay.
02:10And one more time, the cutoff is they were 19 and four to start the year, and they're
02:13what since?
02:14Nine and seven.
02:15Okay.
02:16Back and forth.
02:17So that's since the Grizzlies game, and that's the one they shot like 63s, and they were
02:20leaving Drew Holiday open.
02:21They couldn't get any.
02:22Okay.
02:23So hang on.
02:24So your thesis...
02:25Good numbers.
02:26Good job, Terp.
02:28We'll talk to you next week.
02:29We'll see you next week, Terp.
02:30Back down the hall.
02:31As Marshawn would say, back in the closet.
02:32So, okay.
02:33Your thesis, if I'm reading it properly, is they need to shoot more threes.
02:37They were shooting more threes, attempting more threes.
02:39They were 19 and four.
02:40They've dropped off.
02:41They've shot less, and now they're 500-ish, nine and seven, over this more recent stretch.
02:45Is that fair to say that's your thesis?
02:47They're not shooting enough threes.
02:48I do think they need to shoot more threes, and people probably hate that.
02:51Yeah, they're like, what?
02:52It has gotten worse when they've shot less threes, and there's more percentage that you
02:55can get into.
02:56But also, doesn't it sound like they need to defend their opponent's three better?
02:58They do.
02:59That's sort of the key to me.
03:00That's what jumped out, is you were hitting a decent percentage.
03:03The percentage has gone down.
03:04You've taken fewer, so that's going to limit it.
03:06But it seems like the opponent, over the last 16 games, has been much more efficient shooting
03:10threes.
03:11Right.
03:12And over those 16 games, the Celtics have shot under 30% seven times, and they're one
03:16and six in those games.
03:17And it feels like every time that they've had...
03:18And the one win was the Pelican game, right?
03:19The Pelican game.
03:20Yeah, yeah.
03:22And they kind of did everything they could to lose it.
03:23No, Tatum missed two free throws, Derek White had the five-second violation.
03:27And he fumbled the ball out of bounds on the inbounds, too, which is just so weird.
03:31McCollum missed what looked like a good look for a game-winner.
03:33Yeah, yeah.
03:34He had a good look.
03:35So there's a lot that goes into it.
03:37It's not as simple as they're just missing shots, because they're driving, kind of they're
03:40getting back to bad habits.
03:41Okay, so put the missing shots thing to the side for a moment, because I do want to get
03:44to that.
03:45But are teams defending them any different?
03:48In other words, are they playing different because they're being forced into it?
03:52Or have they tried to change the way they played?
03:54Or are teams saying, we're not giving you the three anymore, we're running you off the
03:57three?
03:58Well, they're definitely...
03:59Teams are playing them differently.
04:00And another part of that, too, is they're just...
04:01Teams are punching above their weight.
04:03Like that Pelicans team had eight wins, and they came in and gave the Celtics everything
04:07they can handle.
04:08And part of it, too, is if the Celtics are going to go with this strategy of leaving
04:11guys open...
04:12They did it with DeJounte Murray the other night.
04:13They tried it with Embiid earlier.
04:15They've done it to a bunch of different players.
04:18If you're going to do that, and you're going to let players shoot threes, you have to make
04:21yours.
04:22That's the whole thing.
04:23You can't just let them shoot these threes and then not make them on your end, because
04:26then that's where that disparity happens.
04:28So yeah, teams are defending them differently.
04:31And also, players are missing shots that they normally would make.
04:34Look at Derek White.
04:35He's shooting 20% in January.
04:38It's not really used to seeing that from him.
04:40So eventually, water will find its level, and they'll figure out how to counter-react
04:45here.
04:46Live and die by the three is what we've been talking about with this team, and to an extent
04:50they have.
04:51But it's not because they're shooting too many.
04:53It's because they're getting away from what makes them do it the best.
04:56Yeah, they don't have that huge advantage like they did for the first bunch of games.
04:59That's 13 points.
05:00That's a big deal.
05:01Oh, that's a swing.
05:02Mazula's been...
05:03He's kind of called out the team here and there.
05:06How do you think the team has responded to that, just sort of the Mazula experience?
05:11We talk a lot about the players and what they look like on the court, but also a new spot
05:16for Mazula defending a title and trying to keep his guys motivated.
05:19How do you think he's handling it?
05:20Yeah, one thing about Joe is he will never rip his players publicly.
05:24He will go bend himself like a pretzel to really stay away from doing it publicly.
05:28So whatever he's saying in front of the microphones is a lot different from what's being said
05:32behind closed doors.
05:33You don't think he's ripped them a little bit publicly?
05:36I think he has.
05:37But yeah, maybe it's not specific on a player.
05:38It's just sort of how the team's played, though.
05:40Well, team's effort and stuff like that, it's nothing.
05:41It's not Jason Tatum does this.
05:43I don't know if he was necessarily ripping them on Sunday after the Pelicans game.
05:48I think he really brought some interesting perspective, like, listen, we're 28 and 11.
05:52And he said it sounded like a morgue in the room because everyone's asking about how poorly
05:55they've been playing.
05:56But they just won the game.
05:57So I found that interesting.
05:58It's funny.
05:59He kind of caught himself.
06:00Because what did he say?
06:01He's like, we're in what is it?
06:02We're in third place.
06:03We're in third.
06:04But he's like, well, that's not great.
06:05He said some line like, all right, well, that's maybe not a great point to where I mean, they're
06:09way behind the Cavs now, like way behind.
06:11Oh, they're six games.
06:13They'd somehow picked up a game, though, in that Pelicans game or the Kings game.
06:16They picked up a game.
06:17But I thought it was interesting to hear him say that with the perspective of the 28 and
06:2211 and how they're the expectations are kind of viewed differently.
06:26Because first of all, I mean, this this team had sky high expectations last year and they
06:30met him this year.
06:31They're still meeting them in 28 and 11.
06:33They're still third best record in the league.
06:35But it's just because they're not number one right now because they're chasing the Thunder
06:38and the Cavs.
06:39People are looking at it comparatively to those two teams, as well as last year.
06:43And it's just it's just what they did last year.
06:46You couldn't have possibly expected them to do again, like 64 and 18.
06:49That was top five and point different history.
06:52I expected it.
06:53We said we said early on in the year, we were both like, they're better than last year.
06:57Yeah, I mean, I know me and I'm not speaking for you, but me and Rich felt that he's the
07:00sole difference maker.
07:01But the way Peyton Pritchard was playing, I did not anticipate like six minute of the
07:05year for him.
07:06So I yeah, I did think they were going to.
07:08I expected you guys.
07:09I expected more than six wins that complacency would be the issue.
07:13No doubt.
07:14And that's just that's human nature.
07:15I said, you know, I said if they weren't going to win, if they're not going to win, complacency
07:20would be it.
07:21And they look complacent.
07:22I do think complacency in the regular season are a lot different than what it is in the
07:24postseason.
07:25Like these lapses that we're seeing now.
07:27And I will I'm not giving them an excuse here because you can't have that now because they
07:30preach it regular season about building habits and really establishing what kind of team
07:34you are.
07:36Last year's team is last year's team.
07:37Those habits are last year.
07:39This year, they have to get back to establishing that and they haven't done it.
07:42But they have earned the benefit of the doubt that come playoff time.
07:45They're going to figure it out because they've shown they can look at the first half of the
07:48Thunder game, for example.
07:49I know they collapsed in the second half, but that was some of the best basketball they
07:53played all year in that first half against that defense.
07:56The way they scored the ball, they played great defense themselves.
07:58Jason Tatum, Jaylen Brown getting downhill when the threes weren't really falling.
08:02So they've earned the benefit of the doubt because they've been there and they've done
08:06that.
08:07So Joe kind of used the championship card a little bit like he was like, kind of relax
08:10like we're going to figure this out where in years past, you're living and dying by
08:14every loss.
08:15And I don't think that's the case anymore.
08:17So, you know, a lot of people want them to be the next Warriors, right, like go on that
08:21kind of a run.
08:22And so when you look back on it, Steve Kerr's first year of the Warriors, they win the title.
08:26They won 67 games.
08:27The next year, being the defending champion, they won 73, 73.
08:33They lost in the finals.
08:34They were up 3-1.
08:35But like this Celtics team has already lost more regular season games this year than that
08:39team did in their title defense.
08:41Now that they get Kevin Durant, they come back the next year, they win 67 games in the
08:46regular season and the title.
08:47The year after that, they had injuries and stuff.
08:49They won 58 and the title, and then they won 57.
08:51So you could say, all right, like there were two years in there where they didn't hit 60
08:55games, but it just goes to show, I mean, the target was on their back very much the same
09:00way.
09:01The target is on the Celtics back.
09:02And they're still on pace for 58.
09:04That would have won the Eastern Conference last year.
09:0658 wins gets you in.
09:07It's just the Cavs are having this unbelievable season.
09:10And that's part of it.
09:12So going back to the threes and the approach, do you think there's a team now, I've heard
09:17you say this before, no one can out-shoot them in a seven-game series.
09:21And they're not going to stay ice cold for four losses in a seven-game series.
09:26Still feel that way?
09:27Are there teams that can out-shoot them now?
09:28Because for instance, Cleveland, as a team, is shooting on 41 attempts a night, 40% from
09:34three.
09:35Yeah.
09:36I mean, they're lights out.
09:37It's not necessarily teams can't out-shoot them.
09:38It's just teams can't beat them in the seven-game series because the Celtics have other ways
09:40to win and they've shown that they can adapt.
09:42And again, I keep referencing that Thunder game, but threes weren't falling in the first
09:46half.
09:47They were getting downhill.
09:48They've shown their ability to get downhill and score in other ways.
09:51It's just right now in the regular season, again, it's about building habits.
09:54You're going to stick with what worked last year, what you believe works.
09:57You're going to stick with your system.
09:58So they're not necessarily showing their cards right now.
10:00They've been very experimental this year with their lineups, with some of the actions
10:04they're running.
10:05So it's been different.
10:06So come the postseason, it's not necessarily about out-shooting.
10:09That's a big thing.
10:10Don't get me wrong, but it's just not beating them in a seven-game series.
10:14It's just they're that talented.
10:15Is there something you can put your finger on when they have their top nine guys that
10:19it doesn't look great?
10:20It seems like they're almost better off and there's some of their best games are when
10:24one or sometimes two of their top nine guys are out.
10:27Yeah, that starting five with Kristaps Porzingis in there has not been great.
10:31It's night and day.
10:32It's like a huge difference in the net rating when Al Horford's on and Kristaps is off.
10:36And I do think there is some truth to them kind of getting reacclimated and stuff.
10:40But they're over 130 minutes now.
10:42They've only played two less games in the starting five with Horford.
10:46So at some point, results have to come and it's not all about like, oh, we're going to
10:50figure it out.
10:51Don't worry.
10:52We're going to figure it out.
10:53You can never change the starting lineup.
10:54I don't.
10:55I mean, this has been and it's not really that far fetched, but I think it's really
10:58nearsighted when you're talking about moving Kristaps to the bench.
11:00I mean, you've already kind of done this with Al and granted, Al doesn't shoot very well
11:04off the bench.
11:06He accepted that role, but he didn't really thrive in it last year, ended up starting
11:10more games than he came off the bench last year.
11:12So I think just because you've already established it, that this is what it's going to be when
11:16everyone's healthy.
11:17Also, I wonder if Joe's kind of loving this, like these, like these guys, like this top
11:21five, they're not going to be there's no entitlement here.
11:24They got to work through this.
11:25Does it sound like he's loving it?
11:26Because I, again, I know you're saying he's not, he's not calling him out and criticizing
11:30him, but he has kind of referenced a couple of times.
11:32They're not playing their best.
11:33You brought up one.
11:34He questioned their effort earlier in the year.
11:36I don't know if Joe's loving it.
11:37I'm talking specifically for the start, keep them motivated.
11:40I get that.
11:41But I'm saying, I don't, I don't know.
11:42Like we're midway through the year.
11:43I don't know.
11:44I don't know that you want to, you know, keep having to deal with these issues as much as
11:48he wanted.
11:49Like I remember he's in the off season, he said he wanted the target right in between
11:52their eyes.
11:53They want to see the red dot.
11:55As much as he wanted that.
11:56It's just not realistic.
11:57Like every championship team does this.
11:58Like you're gonna, you're not going to be as locked in as you were last year.
12:02Like they had something to prove last year coming off, especially that Eastern conference
12:05finals loss against Miami.
12:07They really most, most championship teams don't repeat.
12:10Right.
12:11And so, well recently.
12:12Yeah.
12:13I mean, used to be done very, very consistently, but right.
12:16The last six haven't made it on the second round.
12:18Yeah.
12:19So to me, there are, there are things to pay attention to.
12:21People are going to say the target's on our back, but I hope it's right in our forehead
12:24in between our eyes.
12:25I hope I can see the red dot.
12:26A famous answer.
12:27Famous answer.
12:28And who said it?
12:29Serial killer?
12:30That's actually your head coach.
12:33So yeah, I mean, these are all potential red flags.
12:36I have some questions on the Celtics sale.
12:37Kiefer, I don't know if you have more on the, on the team.
12:39On the sale?
12:40Uh, no.
12:41Although I would say it's good timing for this guy.
12:43Scotty Barnes.
12:44He's going to be all stop.
12:45See him tonight.
12:46Right.
12:47Unless he's hurt.
12:48He'll see the Raptors.
12:49Yeah.
12:50I saw a video recently where you're wondering what's going on with this team and then they
12:52won by like 50 points.
12:53They just get in trouble earlier in the year.
12:56Remember Jason?
12:57They did.
12:58Yeah.
12:59Yeah.
13:00Yeah.
13:01Yeah.
13:02That was New Year's Eve.
13:03That the blowout.
13:04Yeah.
13:05They just smoked them.
13:06Yeah.
13:07Um, Himmelsbach had a story yesterday, uh, in a letter to stakeholders obtained by the
13:08globe.
13:09Uh, the Celtics will begin receiving bids from prospective buyers on January 23rd.
13:12So what does that next week?
13:14And ownership is quote unquote, pleased with the broad level of interest that has emerged.
13:19Where, where are we at with that?
13:20I mean, I know that's Himmelsbach's report.
13:21Where are we at with it?
13:22He told us who was interested.
13:23Right.
13:24That's true.
13:25That is true.
13:26We have a list of that.
13:27Uh, speaking of lists, she's on keeps, uh, but where, where are we at with that sale?
13:31I mean, I'm, I'm surprised at the, the lack of news and dribs and drabs of information.
13:38I don't know what you're hearing or how much it even is a discussion point, but I'm surprised
13:41we're still getting like a first round of bids next week.
13:44I'm kind of surprised at how slow this is going.
13:47It made it sound like when wick announced the sale right after the finals, that this
13:50was going to fly around.
13:52Like they're going to get this done quick.
13:53Like they're taking their time here.
13:55Think of the Celtics though, is they hold everything really tight to the vest.
13:58Like they don't show their card.
13:59So there really isn't much conversation about this.
14:02Wick Rosebeck has still been at every game on the sideline and he's still into it.
14:06And he's been clear that he wants to remain on and as governor pass the sale.
14:11But I'm just shocked how slowly this is moving.
14:13Like they made it sound like it was going to fly.
14:15Exactly.
14:16For them, winning the title is not a stretch, right?
14:18They're the favorite to win the title.
14:19So if they win the title, is wick going to be the one that gets the trophy right away?
14:23And he's like, this is great.
14:24And like the next guy I can have it or whatever, like that's going to be like a weird thing.
14:27I can't remember a time in sports where the winning team had the owner on stage and you
14:33knew the team was up for grabs like at any moment, right?
14:36Like the, like did the Marlins have a sale shortly after what?
14:39Like, but after, oh, 97, maybe I don't, when they were on stage, I don't think you knew
14:44it.
14:45It's been like a year in the making.
14:47We definitely had a week after the, we definitely didn't know it last year.
14:50No, it was like, Oh, wick was it right after the parade?
14:53Yes.
14:5420 years, 20 years of lies in the streets.
14:57It was that soon after I would be interested if like the new, whoever the high was like,
15:02is that guy on the stage?
15:03His first day, he's like, great first day on the job.
15:05So it's just shows him out of the way.
15:07Yeah.
15:08I'll take it.
15:09It doesn't feel like it's going to be done.
15:10I don't think so.
15:11Like something that like that, it's just so bizarre because they made, and obviously you're
15:15talking about it in ridiculous amount of money though.
15:18Yeah.
15:19So, but I just wonder, what does that speak to?
15:20Does that speak to a lack of interest?
15:22Does that speak to maybe too high of an asking price?
15:25Exactly.
15:26That's what I mean.
15:27It's just, they're asking for too much and they're still rounding up bids because there
15:33hasn't been an overwhelming bid because usually it's a polyuca being the favorite.
15:37Like I don't, I don't really know how to read it, but the fact it's taking a long time,
15:41I feel like it's telling, and maybe I'm missing a few, but most of the teams in the four major
15:47sports that have been sold recently or because their owner did something awful and they got
15:51pushed out.
15:52So like the Clippers, the commanders, the Panthers, it was like, you're done.
15:58Sell the team.
15:59Let's move on.
16:00Now it's, if you're a prospective buyer, aren't you like, wait, why are you selling the team?
16:04Right.
16:05Like you're at the top.
16:06You've been fighting for this the whole time.
16:07So they look under the hood.
16:08Yeah.
16:09Open, open up the books.
16:11Yeah.
16:12It's got nothing to do with our $500 million yearly payroll for our roster.
16:15Yeah.
16:16What is this?
16:17Well, that's, that's a thing too.
16:18With the, whoever the new owner is like, you can't just, even Wickwood had to done it.
16:22There's going to have to be moves because of how much this roster costs.
16:25So whenever this new owner comes in, it feels like they're already going to be persona non
16:29grata.
16:30They have to be the bad guy.
16:31They're the bad guy right away.
16:32Poor Zingas this, or we can't pay drew holiday that, and then they're making moves and people
16:36are going to hate them.
16:37Where's that guy?
16:38I remember when Wick was here.
16:40And he wouldn't, but like, he couldn't even justify this.
16:43Like no, no, it's a person can justify this.
16:45Not even a businessman.
16:46It's a lot.
16:47Whoever comes in is that's going to be kind of tough.
16:49Well, that's like, if you have the greatest house in the world and you're selling it,
16:52why are you selling?
16:53It's like, just cause it's so great.
16:55Cause it's so great.
16:56I love it so much.
16:57I want someone else to live here.
16:58Yeah.
16:59I'm moving in the same town.
17:00I just, but I don't want this house anymore.
17:01Like, okay.
17:02I mean, look, there's very, very few of the Uber rich and, and you know, Wick and Irv
17:06are not in that group.
17:07I mean, they're very rich people, but they're not in the, the bus, Bezos, that level, right?
17:12There's very few that could afford the bill.
17:13And then there's a whole nother level.
17:14Is it, is it questionable or smart business?
17:18Good business to do it.
17:19He's Justin Turpin.
17:20You can check him out all over social media, Justin M Turpin, Celtics videos, Celtics information.
17:26And of course, a big part of Jones and Keefe here on W E I Terp.
17:29We appreciate it.
17:30All right.
17:31Thanks guys.
17:32I'm going to go back to my closet.
17:33Please.
17:34If you could, the Twitch closet down there.
17:36Go pound Sand Turp.
17:38And he joins us every Wednesday for some guaranteed Celtics discussion.