日経スペシャル もしものマネー道 もしマネ 2025年1月19日 父と娘が紡ぐ老舗の“発酵”物語！西日本最古の「ワイン」andにおわない「納豆」
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TVTranscript
00:00Osaka, Kashiwara City
00:04There was a girl who was cursed
00:10Curse?
00:11Scary, scary
00:12Suddenly?
00:13Makiko, you will be a successor
00:18You will be a grape
00:22Grape?
00:25Makiko Takai
00:27She was born as the eldest daughter of a grape farmer
00:31What? Again?
00:35Give me a break!
00:42I'm glad
00:44It was just a dream
00:46Makiko Takai
00:48She chose to work in a foreign company
00:51because she didn't want to be a grape farmer
00:54She had a busy life
01:03I'm going to run away abroad
01:06Then I'll be able to leave the grape
01:10That's amazing
01:13I was told that I had to protect the field
01:16I was told that I had to protect the field
01:20So I decided to work in a foreign company
01:25But after marriage
01:29Makiko had to take a leave of absence
01:39What's wrong?
01:42What's wrong?
01:45She suddenly fell ill
01:48What's wrong?
01:53Makiko had severe dizziness and nausea
02:00What?
02:02Am I going to die?
02:06What?
02:08What was on her mind at that moment?
02:14If I don't work in a foreign company, I'll die
02:19My ancestors will kill me
02:28Makiko was able to leave the hospital after a month
02:35At that time, she had this feeling
02:41It's a little dark
02:43Can I take a look at my family's work?
02:49She decided to go back to her family
02:53She decided to go back to her family
02:57Her life changed
03:06It's been a long time
03:14Makiko came back to Kashiwara City
03:18Her life changed
03:25You can do whatever you want
03:27What?
03:29Stop it
03:32In Daito City
03:36This is the product
03:38Naniwara Natto
03:41We make Natto from straw
03:47In Osaka, the land of Natto
03:50Women continue to make Natto
03:55This time, it's a story of a father and a daughter
04:10Kashiwara City is located in the southeast of Osaka
04:14Actually, it's here
04:16It's a place where grapes have been produced for a long time
04:19From the end of the Taisho era to the beginning of the Showa era
04:21It was the best vineyard in Japan
04:24As far as the eye can see, it's a vineyard full of grapes
04:31Katashimo Winery is located in this town
04:36This is my family's vineyard
04:39We make grapes and produce wine
04:42This is the oldest vineyard in western Japan
04:47The fifth generation of Katashimo Winery
04:51Makiko Takai is in charge of grapes
04:58It was founded in 1914
05:01This winery has a history of more than 110 years
05:06In 2019, 7 items were selected at the G20 Osaka Summit
05:13This winery has won many awards
05:20Originally, only grapes were grown
05:24But this winery started to make wine to prevent disasters such as typhoons
05:30I borrowed the power of Japanese winemakers
05:34Soy sauce and miso winery
05:36I borrowed a lot of power and succeeded in winemaking
05:41In other words, Kashiwara's wine is a Japanese original wine
05:45that Osaka people who don't know how to make wine made
05:54Makiko was born as the fifth generation of Katashimo Winery
06:01Her family came back to Japan after a long time
06:11I'm home
06:19I haven't been home for a long time, so I don't have anything
06:24I'm busy
06:32Makiko's father, Toshihiro, has been making wine for 48 years
06:39He is the president of the Osaka Winery Association
06:45However
06:54I hated him
06:57He looks really great
06:59He was my father from a long time ago
07:06What does Makiko think of his father?
07:10I'm home, so help me
07:14Oh, I see
07:20He doesn't seem to be in a welcome mood
07:26His father doesn't seem to come to work
07:30What does Makiko think?
07:36I see
07:39Long shoes
07:41OK
07:46He comes to work without permission
07:55It's my first time, but it's pretty good
08:00And
08:03This is my seat
08:15He found something to do by himself and started working
08:20At first, I answered emails and inquiries
08:24But when I was wandering around the company
08:27I realized that I could help
08:31When I talked to the staff
08:35I realized what kind of company I was working for
08:38I thought everyone was doing their best
08:43Makiko started working
08:49But she was waiting for her father
08:56Why?
08:59What does Toshihiro think of his father?
09:04What kind of work is this?
09:10Wine making is not something you can explain with words
09:15You have to look at it and remember
09:18It's a long time ago
09:20Data
09:22It's obvious that it's better to explain it
09:28He spent his days like this
09:34One day, a surprising word came out of Toshihiro's mouth
09:41Dad, the grapes for today's wine are here
09:45You can do whatever you want
09:49What?
09:51So, you can do whatever you want
09:56Whatever I want?
09:58What about the wine?
10:01I won't make it
10:04What?
10:06What are you talking about?
10:09His father, who is in charge of the grapes
10:12suddenly refused to make the wine
10:16Why did you say that you wouldn't make it?
10:19I was busy
10:23I've been free for a long time
10:26He was suddenly entrusted with the task
10:29But Makiko, who has just joined the company, doesn't know how to make wine
10:34So
10:43This is the recipe from last year
10:46She found the recipe that her father had written
10:51She decided to make the wine
10:55Ferment the grapes at the factory
10:59Add 5 kg of sugar
11:02That's a lot of sugar
11:06At this time, something unexpected happens to Makiko
11:12Makiko's father, who is in charge of the grapes
11:15Oh, no!
11:18Oh, I see
11:20Makiko's father, who is in charge of the grapes
11:22I was surprised
11:25I was surprised
11:28I was surprised
11:30But why did this happen?
11:37In the first place, wine is made by changing the sugar content of the grapes
11:42to carbon dioxide and alcohol
11:47The sugar content of the grapes harvested every year is different
11:51In order to match the alcohol content, sugar is added
11:55This process is called fermentation
11:59It's better to add sugar little by little
12:03If you add sugar all at once, it will cause an excessive reaction
12:08I imagined that Makiko would be happy to eat
12:22What are you doing?
12:25I don't know
12:27I told you to teach me how to make it
12:32You know what I'm talking about
12:35I don't know what you're talking about
12:40You know what I'm talking about
12:42You're stupid
12:44I don't know what you're talking about
12:47Makiko's father, who is in charge of the grapes
12:49I'm going to talk to your father
12:53I heard that your father said he wouldn't make wine
12:58He said he wouldn't make wine
13:01He said he wouldn't make wine
13:05It's an old saying
13:08He is very dependent on me
13:12He said he wouldn't make wine
13:15You wanted him to make wine
13:17He said he wouldn't make wine
13:19That's what he said
13:21Did you understand what he meant?
13:23Of course
13:24There are more ways
13:26I see
13:34Makiko, who is in charge of making wine
13:37The first wine she made was
13:40Delaware
13:44It's a wine with a strong scent and a sweet taste
13:49Actually, when he was brewing this
13:53He suddenly
13:59Sweet
14:00What is this?
14:02This is not wine
14:06I knew this would happen
14:11It's true that you might be surprised at first
14:14But I think it's okay to have a clear taste of wine
14:21You don't know anything about wine
14:24No one can buy this kind of wine
14:28You don't know if you sell it
14:30If you say so, do whatever you want
14:34Even if you don't say it, I'll do whatever I want
14:37People who like wine
14:40At that time, European-style dry wine was the trend
14:45I thought I should fail
14:47I thought it was better not to sell
14:50Did you actually sell it?
14:52I made 700-800 bottles for the first time
14:54I sold out in about a week
14:56That's right
14:58I was surprised
15:00I was very embarrassed
15:04However, at the same time
15:06Mr. Toshihiro also produced a big hit product
15:10That is this Takoshan
15:14Takoyaki, a soul food of Osaka people
15:17It's a sparkling wine
15:19It's really good
15:21What kind of Takoyaki do I like?
15:24It's full of sauce
15:26Everyone loses to that sauce
15:29I can't shake hands with this sauce
15:33The scent of the sauce
15:35The taste of the soup stock
15:37The good quality of grapes
15:40Double happiness
15:42This is it
15:46I ate Takoyaki
15:48The taste of the sauce
15:50Aomitsu-san is going
15:53I'm not losing at all
15:55I'm not fighting
15:57The wine is very strong
15:59The sauce is all seasoned
16:03I'm buying this
16:07Takoyaki art
16:09It's delicious
16:11It's delicious
16:19One day 11 years ago
16:22Toshihiro suddenly said this
16:26Huh?
16:28This year is 2014
16:31That's right
16:33I see
16:36I forgot
16:38It's our 100th anniversary
16:42Why did you forget such an important thing?
16:48Even though it's the 100th anniversary
16:52He didn't prepare anything
16:55I shouldn't do anything
17:00If it's the 100th anniversary
17:03We should rent a hotel and have a party
17:06But Makiko
17:08Hmm
17:11The anniversary event at the hotel
17:14It's boring because it's too formal
17:18It's old-fashioned
17:21I want to think of a more fun event
17:26If you do that
17:28Do what you want
17:30He got angry right away
17:32But he let me do what I want
17:37I'll do it
17:39The parent-child quarrel started again
17:43And Makiko was surprised
17:48If it's that
17:50I'll do it
17:54Here is the question
17:58What is the event held to commemorate Makiko's 100th anniversary?
18:06Here it is
18:08The parent-child quarrel
18:10You want to show it
18:12You want to show it
18:14You want to show it
18:16I think it's good for the entertainment
18:18Here it is
18:20The 100 yen bottle
18:22The 100 yen bottle
18:24The 100 yen bottle
18:26The 100 yen bottle
18:28The 100 yen bottle
18:30The 100 yen bottle
18:32The 100 yen bottle
18:34The 100 yen bottle
18:36The 100 yen bottle
18:38The 100 yen bottle
18:40The 100 yen bottle
18:44Makiko's 100th anniversary event
18:48It's been so popular that it's been 10 years
18:54Many people gathered near the Katashimo winery.
18:59Everyone has a wine glass in their hand.
19:04I wonder if I can drink it.
19:06Yes, you can actually go to Kashiwara City, where they make wine,
19:11and enjoy the wine at the winery and vineyard.
19:16This is an event created by Mahiko.
19:19Katashimo Wine Festival
19:21It looks fun.
19:23I thought it would be nice to celebrate the 100th anniversary in a hotel,
19:27but I wanted to do something that only we can do.
19:30I wanted people to know that there is a vineyard here,
19:32and that we make wine here.
19:34That's why I started this event.
19:37In the vineyard, you can drink wine while eating grapes.
19:42It's a unique event in the mountainous area.
19:46It's good here, and it feels good.
19:49It's great to eat local food in nature.
19:55The taste of the city and the wine go well together.
20:00It's a great luxury.
20:03Now, it's a super popular event with 3,000 people.
20:08Let's do it every year.
20:10Osaka wine is all original from the beginning.
20:14So I want people in Osaka to drink the wine they want.
20:18I want people to know that Osaka wine is the best wine in the world.
20:25The story of the father and daughter's winery.
20:30Next, we visited Daito City, Osaka.
20:34Unlike other natto makers,
20:37we make natto unique to Koganeya.
20:41Natto.
20:42The president of Koganeya Food, Emiko Yoshida.
20:49In Kansai, the amount of natto consumed is small,
20:52about half of that of Kanto.
20:55In Osaka, the amount of natto consumed is the 43rd largest in the country.
21:03Koganeya Food has been making natto in Osaka for 63 years.
21:10What is the most popular product?
21:13This is the product.
21:15It's a signboard product, Nanimara Natto.
21:18Natto bacteria live in the stomach,
21:22so we rely on that to make natto.
21:25It's really old-fashioned,
21:27but we make natto that draws out the bacteria in the stomach.
21:30There are natto bacteria in the stomach?
21:32If you can feel the umami of the soybeans,
21:35natto lovers will be proud.
21:37In 2014, it was recognized as a famous product in Osaka.
21:42This is a popular product.
21:45There's more.
21:47This is a popular product at the department store.
21:51This is a popular product from the Itomonogatari series.
21:55This is a fashionable-looking natto.
21:58In general, most of the sauce in natto is soy sauce,
22:04but in Itomonogatari, they use light soy sauce to suit the taste of Kansai people.
22:11Just like the name Itomonogatari,
22:13when you mix it, it draws out the bacteria.
22:20Koganeya's products are popular in Osaka.
22:25But in the past...
22:27There were a lot of difficult times.
22:30I don't think it's common to make natto in Osaka.
22:38I see.
22:42The founder of Koganeya's products is Emiko's father, Kinji Koide.
22:47There used to be a lot of people like that.
22:49Kinji is from Yamagata Prefecture, where people have been eating natto on a daily basis for a long time.
22:54He said he was fond of natto.
22:58My family wasn't very wealthy,
23:01so I left middle school and started working right away.
23:05It seems that I chose to train at a natto shop.
23:10Before my father's death, he said he wanted to open a shop in Osaka
23:15because Osaka was a city in the fall.
23:20And when he was 26 years old...
23:24I'm going to change Osaka with the natto I make!
23:28He decided to be independent.
23:31But he didn't have enough money to build a proper factory.
23:35So Kinji decided to take action.
23:41Here's a 10-second quiz for Matsushima-san.
23:45What is the most surprising fermentation method that Kinji-san, who has no equipment to ferment natto, came up with?
23:53Well...
23:55It's the same as bread.
23:57You put it in the bath and ferment it.
24:04The answer is...
24:06Did you eat it yourself?
24:16It's fermenting well.
24:19Is the temperature of the kotatsu good?
24:21At first, he used kotatsu to ferment natto.
24:28You can make natto with kotatsu?
24:31I can't recommend it to the general public, but I can do it.
24:36It's simple, but I know the process of making natto.
24:40I was doing it while thinking about it with my father.
24:44He had such a strong desire.
24:47He always wanted to compete with natto.
24:53Please!
24:55Can you leave my natto here?
24:59No!
25:01I can't eat rotten food.
25:04It's not rotten.
25:06It won't sell.
25:08I don't know.
25:10Wait a minute!
25:12He was waiting for the day when he would compete with Osaka people who hated natto.
25:17It's tough in Kansai.
25:21I used to make natto that looked like real natto.
25:29But it smelled a little.
25:32I realized that Osaka people couldn't accept it.
25:39Still, Kinji continued to be passionate about natto.
25:45Then, there was a change.
25:49Hello, Kin-chan.
25:53I thought I would never eat natto.
25:57But I ate Kin-chan's natto.
26:00How was it?
26:03It's strange, but I could eat Kin-chan's natto.
26:07You are a good person.
26:10Can you leave my natto here?
26:15There was a secret to the fact that Osaka people who hated natto could only eat Kinji's natto.
26:21What is it?
26:23I devised a way to ferment natto.
26:26I made natto that didn't smell as much as Osaka people.
26:31Since then, the number of customers has increased little by little.
26:35It's a unique fermentation method, isn't it?
26:37Yes.
26:38How do you do it?
26:40I can't tell you the details because it's a secret.
26:44But I make natto ferment as little as possible.
26:47I try not to make it smell as much as possible.
26:50The umami of natto is the only thing I care about.
26:54That's the only thing I'm particular about.
26:58Even now, I continue to make natto to protect the umami of natto.
27:02Kinji is ahead of the big manufacturer.
27:05He has established the technology of natto that doesn't smell.
27:09And he vigorously produces new products.
27:13He has established his position in the natto industry in Osaka.
27:21Emiko was born as the eldest daughter of three sisters.
27:26She has eaten natto as a snack since she was a child.
27:30She loved the natto that her father made.
27:33It's delicious.
27:35Let's eat natto.
27:39Emiko is here.
27:41Don't come near me. Natto smells bad.
27:46My father told me to go away.
27:51Since then, I haven't told anyone that I run a natto shop.
27:57It's Showa era.
28:00I have only three sisters.
28:05I thought I would end my career as a father.
28:11I've seen my father and mother struggling to run a natto shop.
28:18I wanted to be a normal wife of a salaryman.
28:24Emiko got married to a company employee and moved away from natto.
28:35A few years later, she came back to her parents' house.
28:41I'm home.
28:43She noticed something strange about natto.
28:54There are not many people.
28:57The company is not doing well.
29:02At that time, the management of the natto shop was not doing well.
29:08What was the big reason?
29:11What's wrong?
29:15I want to sell natto.
29:17From this era?
29:19I see.
29:23The reason why the management of the natto shop was not doing well was...
29:31A big company sold natto to a supermarket.
29:35From this era?
29:37If it was sold so cheaply, a small company like us couldn't do anything.
29:44As the natto-eating culture began to take root in Osaka,
29:49the big manufacturer expanded the natto in supermarkets.
29:53A cheap-selling competition called three packs of 100 yen had begun.
30:00I think the price of natto was twice that of the big manufacturer.
30:04We use good soybeans.
30:08We make natto carefully by hand.
30:13If we compete in terms of price, we will definitely lose.
30:21To reduce the cost of manufacturing, she reduced the number of products.
30:26In addition, to reduce the cost of manufacturing,
30:31she prohibited manufacturing, delivery, and sales.
30:36How did Emiko react to this situation?
30:41Help me with the delivery.
30:44It's okay.
30:46I can't.
30:48If I overdo it and break my body, there will be no natto.
30:53However, a few years later...
30:58You're here.
31:01That's why I told you not to overdo it.
31:04It's not a big deal.
31:06By the way, how's the natto coming along?
31:09Did you deliver it?
31:11It's okay. I'm doing it properly.
31:13I see.
31:16Wait a minute.
31:18Actually, I have a plan to make natto next time.
31:23I'm sure the customers will love it.
31:28You always talk about natto.
31:31Of course.
31:33I only have natto.
31:36I'm tired.
31:38Go to bed.
31:42At this time, Emiko and I...
31:45Yes.
31:47At this time, Kinji was suffering from cancer.
31:54When I was in the hospital,
31:56I was asked if I wanted to be notified if I had cancer or not.
32:00I decided not to be notified,
32:03so my family and I decided to come back as soon as possible
32:07and encourage each other.
32:10When I was talking about natto, I was so excited.
32:14I was hoping that the disease would be overcome.
32:25Actually, half a year before Kinji died,
32:29Emiko's husband disappeared
32:31and she was supposed to be the president of Kogamiya Foods.
32:37And Emiko started working together as a manager.
32:42Of course, her husband didn't know anything about natto.
32:47What was his management policy?
32:51Where are you going?
32:53Of course, I'm going to pick up the customers.
32:55Again?
32:57Of course.
32:59Management is strict,
33:01so I have to make a deal.
33:05This is the only way.
33:08Is that really true?
33:12I see.
33:15It's delicious.
33:17There's a story behind making natto.
33:20I'm sure the customers will love it.
33:25At this time, Emiko said something surprising.
33:33No!
33:34Kogamiya is not a company that picks up customers.
33:38What?
33:40Kogamiya has always picked up customers with its productivity.
33:44We have to continue to pick up customers with our productivity.
33:48This is the most important point.
33:51She proposed to focus on productivity.
33:57But the president is me.
34:01Let me be the president.
34:04I'm the only one who can protect the company.
34:08My father was confident that he had customers with his productivity.
34:14I thought I was the only one who could do it.
34:22So I said I would be the president.
34:29I think it's good.
34:31Emiko divorced her husband and became the president of Kogamiya in 2007.
34:37But of course, she is an amateur in management.
34:42How can I beat Ote's product?
34:47There is no way to win in the price competition with Ote.
34:51After much consideration, Emiko came up with the answer.
34:56Emiko came up with the answer.
34:59I wanted to go back to the beginning.
35:02I was inspired by my father's handcrafted straw nut.
35:08So I made this straw nut.
35:13Emiko arrived at her father's origin.
35:17She thought there was a hint to fight Ote.
35:23There is a cup of natto that we make.
35:27It is made by blowing on natto.
35:31But this straw nut has natto bacteria in the straw itself.
35:36So we make it by pulling it out.
35:40The straw nut has natto bacteria in the straw itself.
35:43It takes a lot of time to make and the quality is not stable.
35:50In other words, in a modern world where food management is difficult,
35:54selling natto made from straw is a piece of cake.
36:00We are a small company.
36:03So we try to make natto that only small companies can make.
36:07We are good at making unlawful natto.
36:13Because most of the work is handcrafted,
36:15the amount of natto that can be made in one day is limited to 300 pieces.
36:20However, when it was sold in 2009,
36:23people started to talk about the original taste of natto.
36:27So it became a very popular product that can be sold out even if you don't do business with it.
36:34In addition, Emiko makes the next step in the natto industry.
36:43Here is the question.
36:46What is the next step in the natto industry that Emiko started?
36:54Here you are.
36:57We put the natto in a super-high-end hotel's Viking.
37:03Then customers who come to a super-high-end hotel will eat it and say,
37:07Where is this natto from?
37:09Then more people will want to buy it.
37:11Yes, and more people will be attracted to it.
37:13People from all over Japan will be attracted to the shape of this straw.
37:17I see.
37:19Emiko, please do it right now.
37:21It's not the answer to the quiz, but it's a good idea.
37:24I thought it was a good idea.
37:27Maybe it's a variety of sauces.
37:31Maybe it's a variety of sauces.
37:36Maybe it's a variety of sauces.
37:42It's a new style of natto that no one has ever seen before.
37:48It's delicious.
37:49What is the next step in the natto industry that Emiko started?
37:52We put the natto in a straw.
37:57Here we go.
38:01It's a lot of natto.
38:03It's this.
38:04What is the sauce?
38:05It's a sauce.
38:06It's a sauce.
38:07You don't need to add sauce.
38:11It's delicious even if you sprinkle salt on it.
38:15That's amazing.
38:16Let's eat.
38:20There's a lot of string.
38:22It's delicious.
38:23It's sour.
38:24The taste of soybeans and the flavor of natto.
38:28The grain is big.
38:30The more you chew, the more it comes out of your nose.
38:33It's very delicious.
38:36Emiko started a new challenge.
38:39It's this shop in Tosabori, Osaka.
38:44This is our store.
38:47It's called Natto Bar Kogane-yan.
38:51A bar?
38:52It's a showcase like a cake shop.
38:56It's all natto.
39:00I think there is a story that sushi bars are delicious.
39:04Natto bars are delicious soybeans and delicious toppings.
39:09I want people to choose natto as if they were choosing a cocktail at a bar.
39:16There are three types of natto.
39:21You can choose your favorite topping from 12 types.
39:26It's a style that has never been seen before.
39:31The unusual lineup is eye-catching.
39:38I want to eat it.
39:40The most popular one is the new domestic grain mustard.
39:47It has a strong taste, but the texture is interesting.
39:51You can enjoy the grain texture and flavor.
39:57I like this one because it's delicious.
40:02My child likes onions.
40:05It's sweet.
40:07It's not spicy.
40:10As a result of these challenges, the sales have tripled since Emiko became president.
40:18That's great.
40:19I've changed my name and package.
40:23I may have changed it on my own.
40:26I don't think so.
40:28I want to tell people that I only protect the taste.
40:33This time, we introduced a story about fermentation, such as wine and natto in Osaka.
40:41According to a visitor, Ishikawa-san, there are other fermented foods that are popular in Osaka.
40:49Fermented food has been popular in the past few years.
40:53Not only do people buy it at supermarkets, but also make it themselves.
40:59Now, it's a hot topic.
41:01Yuko Kitajima is a fermented food entrepreneur in Kishiwada.
41:08A cooking class for fermented food that will be booked up to three months in advance.
41:14What is the reason for its popularity?
41:16To be continued.
41:29This is a cooking class for Kitajima-san's special fermented food.
41:37It's a cooking class where you can learn how to make miso, soy sauce, sweet sake, and salt fermented food.
41:46There are about 500 students who took the class in a year.
41:51Now, the class is booked up to three months.
41:58The fermented food introduced this time is also popular because of the traditional method of using straw.
42:05However, the secret of Kitajima-san's fermented food is the traditional method of making it by hand and heating it.
42:15According to Kitajima-san, by heating it, it contains more living microorganisms than commercially available ones.
42:25By heating it, it contains more living microorganisms.
42:27My mother also makes miso.
42:30The miso soup that my mother makes is the best.
42:35It's a mother's taste.