11th Hour | Waseem Badami | Javed Latif | Mohammad Zubair | Fawad Chaudhry | ARY News | 30th Jan2025
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00In the name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful, Peace be upon you.
00:25First of all, a few hours ago,
00:28we saw the moon of the blessed month of Shaban,
00:31which is a blessed month for everyone.
00:33Obviously, the next moon to be seen in the Islamic world
00:36will be in the month of Ramadhan,
00:38which will be after 139 or 130 days.
00:40May Allah enable everyone to see the month of Ramadhan
00:44with goodness, health, and respect.
00:47And may Allah bring good news for the beloved country as well.
00:51Inshallah.
00:52Coming to the topic,
00:53the thing is that if someone doesn't know
00:57that the government and the opposition,
01:00the PTI, the Negotiating Committee,
01:02which didn't come up,
01:03because all of a sudden the announcement came
01:05that the negotiations are over,
01:07we don't want to do anything.
01:09So, if the negotiations were still going on,
01:11the PTI had written that we need a commission,
01:13and the PTI had written that we need our prisoners released.
01:16In return, what did the government answer?
01:18For example, on the 28th, the PTI would have come
01:20and the negotiations wouldn't have ended.
01:22So, even though the government didn't tell us
01:24what we should have answered,
01:25but you listen to this,
01:26and try to find the answer in this.
01:28If there was a session,
01:29the government would have thought about this,
01:31and written that the PTI,
01:32in response to their questions,
01:33said that we need a commission on these things.
01:35This was the answer they had to give.
01:37What was that answer?
01:38What would have happened?
01:39In this conversation between the Prime Minister and Pakistan,
01:41you will get the complete answer.
01:42Listen to this.
01:43I am absolutely ready,
01:44with a pure heart,
01:45with a good policy,
01:46that this dialogue moves forward,
01:48so that the country moves forward,
01:51so that the country doesn't suffer any more loss
01:53at the hands of their spread.
01:58The meeting with the PTI was supposed to be on the 28th.
02:01Before that, they refused,
02:03and ran away.
02:04Isn't it right that after the 2018 election,
02:06Imran Niazi, the PTI,
02:08said to me that they are making a committee.
02:11That committee was a house committee.
02:13It wasn't a judicial commission.
02:15So, I think that they should come,
02:17sit down,
02:18I am ready for a house committee.
02:20The committee that was formed for the 2018 election,
02:23should also complete their work.
02:25And the 2024 election,
02:27should also become a house committee.
02:29They are talking about the protest on 26th November.
02:32So, the 2014 protest,
02:34should also be removed from the house committee.
02:39So, this means,
02:40the government had prepared the answer,
02:42that a judicial commission cannot be formed.
02:44A parliamentary committee will be formed.
02:46So, they should also look at your 26th November,
02:49your 9th May,
02:50and your 2014 protest,
02:52to see if it has any significance.
02:54And similarly,
02:55the other commission that you want,
02:57should also become a parliamentary committee.
02:59They should also look at the previous election,
03:01in which you said that the mandate was stolen.
03:03They should also look at the previous election,
03:05in which we think that the mandate was stolen.
03:07This is the kind of answer the government was giving.
03:09But the most surprising thing for me,
03:11is that the PM of Pakistan is saying that
03:13if you want PTI,
03:14why are they being so kind?
03:18I mean,
03:19yesterday Mr. Waqas said in Punjabi,
03:21that you don't understand English.
03:23You don't understand Urdu.
03:25We are saying that we don't want to talk.
03:27So, go.
03:28So, I am not saying that the government should abuse us.
03:30It is a good thing,
03:31but the government should go home.
03:33Today, the PM of Sata has said that
03:35if you still want to talk,
03:37he is saying that we have terminated the committees.
03:39You are saying no, no, no.
03:40You are staying till 31st November.
03:41Why?
03:42Why is the government so desperate?
03:44Why is the government so desperate?
03:45What is this?
03:46Or is the government scared?
03:48Because today, the PM has also said that
03:49the country cannot tolerate any kind of upheaval.
03:51So, is the government scared that
03:53if Mr. Khan comes on the road again,
03:54it will be a problem again?
03:55Or is the government saying that
03:56they like democracy very much,
03:57so they are saying no, no, no.
03:58It doesn't matter.
03:59Whatever they say,
04:00our doors are still open.
04:01Let's start from here.
04:02Then we have to talk about something else.
04:03The senior leader of Muslim League Noon,
04:05Mr. Javed Lateef,
04:06is with us.
04:07I am very thankful to him.
04:08And the senior,
04:09of course,
04:10has been a politician.
04:11He has a deep view on politics.
04:12Mr. Mohammad Zubair is the governor.
04:14He is with us.
04:15I am very thankful to both of them.
04:17Mr. Javed,
04:18first of all,
04:19please give a straight answer
04:20to this innocent question.
04:22I mean,
04:23do you agree with this?
04:25Is it okay for the gesture
04:26to go to the government?
04:27They are saying no.
04:28I mean,
04:29they are saying no
04:30to the words
04:31that can be said no.
04:32They are saying,
04:33our doors are closed.
04:34Don't they understand English?
04:35Should we tell them in Urdu?
04:36Which language do you understand?
04:37Committee.
04:38You are saying,
04:39no, no, no,
04:40we are still waiting.
04:41No, no,
04:42we are still waiting.
04:43No, no,
04:44we will come on the 28th.
04:45Although they are saying
04:46they will not come on the 28th.
04:47You are saying,
04:48no, no,
04:49we will come.
04:50Today,
04:51the minister is saying,
04:52no, no,
04:53we are still ready.
04:54What kind of a problem
04:55has come?
04:56Are you scared,
04:57government?
04:58What kind of a situation is this?
04:59Why are you so apologetic?
05:00Mr. Waseem Badami,
05:01you are not so innocent
05:02as you ask questions
05:03in the same innocent manner.
05:04Okay,
05:05okay.
05:06The thing is simple.
05:07Both the committees,
05:08both of them,
05:09both of them
05:10knew
05:11what would be
05:12the outcome
05:13of this
05:14Mazaakarati committee.
05:15Okay.
05:16What was already decided,
05:17that has happened.
05:18And,
05:19as far as…
05:20So, both of them were
05:21passing the time?
05:22Both were
05:23passing the time,
05:24both were
05:25deceiving each other.
05:26Okay.
05:27And,
05:28both of them
05:29knew
05:30that
05:31we cannot
05:32leave it.
05:33And,
05:34the other
05:35committee,
05:36they also knew
05:37that
05:38we have no agenda
05:39other than
05:40getting it released.
05:41So,
05:42why were both of them
05:43doing this?
05:44By the way,
05:45before we come to the
05:46real question,
05:47why were both of them
05:48doing this
05:49when they knew
05:50the outcome?
05:51Yes,
05:52one was
05:53doing it
05:54under pressure
05:55for Mazaakarati,
05:56they had agreed.
05:57And,
05:58the other
05:59was afraid
06:00that
06:01the regime
06:02that has changed
06:03on 20th January
06:04or will change,
06:05at that time
06:06also,
06:07if
06:08the
06:09regime
06:10is not
06:11listened to,
06:12then
06:13something
06:14should be
06:15achieved
06:16under this
06:17pressure.
06:18Okay.
06:19These were
06:20the real
06:21purposes
06:22of both of them.
06:23Okay.
06:24Now,
06:25tell me,
06:26now it is done.
06:27Now,
06:28every day
06:29they say
06:30that
06:31brother,
06:32go,
06:33don't do it.
06:34Every day
06:35you say
06:36that
06:37go,
06:38don't do it.
06:39Now,
06:40the
06:41real
06:42purpose
06:43is
06:44to engage
06:45the opposition.
06:46But,
06:47the way
06:48it is
06:49done,
06:50or the
06:51way
06:52it is
06:53happening,
06:54or the
06:55way
06:56you saw
06:57their
06:58protests
06:59within
07:00a year,
07:01or
07:02they
07:03announced
07:04again
07:05yesterday
07:06that
07:07all
07:08the
07:09roads
07:10that
07:11go to
07:12Punjab,
07:13Islamabad,
07:14all of
07:15them
07:16will
07:17be
07:18closed.
07:19Now,
07:20the
07:21real
07:22purpose
07:23of
07:24this
07:25movement
07:26is
07:27to
07:28bring
07:29the
07:30people
07:31together
07:32and
07:33to
07:34bring
07:35the
07:36people
07:37together
07:38and
07:39to
07:40bring
07:41the
07:42people
07:43together
07:44and
07:45to
07:46bring
07:47the
07:48people
07:49together
07:50and
07:51to
07:52bring
07:53the
07:54people
07:55together
07:56and
07:57to
07:58bring
07:59the
08:00people
08:01together
08:02and
08:03to
08:04bring
08:05the
08:06people
08:07together
08:08and
08:09to
08:10bring
08:11them
08:12together
08:13and
08:14to
08:15bring
08:16the
08:17people
08:18together
08:19and
08:20to
08:21bring
08:22the
08:23people
08:24together
08:25.
08:26I
08:27have
08:28said
08:29that
08:30please
08:31listen this
08:32In Pakistan, things are not being handled in a better way, there is no political freedom.
08:40Then I heard that terrorists have been born there.
08:45After that, there were many separatist movements.
08:49Terrorists were also caught from there, operations were also carried out.
08:53Is today's Massim Badami, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa not giving you the same kind of voices?
09:00Will you keep your eyes open that you are carrying out operations against terrorism there?
09:06And today, you are again raising your voice against terrorism.
09:10And the government there is addressing that.
09:14And see, there is one more thing.
09:16I am very clear that the operations that are carried out by a powerful institution,
09:24a powerful institution is forced to do it.
09:29This role should be played by the authorities and the police there much earlier.
09:36This is the last step.
09:38God forbid, we take that step earlier.
09:40Now, what you said that there is a fire in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa,
09:42there are a lot of questions from you.
09:44Let me ask Mr. Zubair first.
09:46Mr. Zubair, first you analyze this,
09:49why is the government repeatedly saying,
09:52even the Prime Minister said today,
09:54that if you want, you can do it.
09:56The government likes democracy very much,
09:58that is why it is expressing that we are the government of the day,
10:01we want to take the opposition with us,
10:03that is why we will keep calling for negotiations.
10:05Or the government has so many problems with PTI,
10:08that they say, leave the negotiations and solve the problem.
10:13Is it right for the government to keep them engaged,
10:18as Mr. Javed Lateef said.
10:20Because the government has to govern,
10:23and they want to live in the government,
10:25and their biggest fear is PTI.
10:27And they don't want such political activities in Pakistan,
10:33because of which the whole world's eyes are on Pakistan,
10:36in the sense that there is no political stability here.
10:39So they want to show that there is political stability.
10:42Their best way is that they want to engage with PTI.
10:46And what Mr. Javed Lateef said about Washington on 20th January,
10:52I don't know what the people sitting inside the government are thinking,
10:58that they also wanted to show that,
11:02why are you talking about interfering in our affairs,
11:06we are engaged with the opposition,
11:08they are sitting with us, talking to us,
11:11if this is converted into a parliamentary committee,
11:14then it will be even better for the government.
11:17And along with that, the popularity of PTI,
11:21the way Imran Khan and the supporters of PTI do politics,
11:28if there is softness in it,
11:31then the support base of PTI also starts to decrease.
11:35So PTI wants to keep it at that level,
11:38and the government wants to bring it down,
11:40wants to bring the tensions down.
11:42And the most important thing is...
11:44But this softness may be unpopular in the ranks of PTI,
11:47because they have heated up the statement so much,
11:50but ultimately this softness is benefiting PTI.
11:53Apart from this, this strong statement is very popular.
11:57But with this strong statement,
11:59the situation is not getting any worse with them,
12:02with the institutions, with the government,
12:04and ultimately if there are no more difficulties,
12:06then shouldn't there be a strategy to take a step back and then take a step forward?
12:12Look Wasim, I have been very clear since the last two years,
12:15especially after the February elections,
12:18that whether it is the government or the establishment,
12:21they have not given Imran Khan any space.
12:23For now, this is how it is, and this is how it is going to be.
12:27Now, when you have decided that there is no space for Imran Khan,
12:31then for that, the 26th amendment,
12:33the changes made in the constitution,
12:35all of them have gone against PTI.
12:38PTI cannot knock on the door of the Supreme Court or the High Court like it did before.
12:44If you look at the case from the beginning,
12:47six judges have written to the Islamabad High Court,
12:50saying that we are being threatened,
12:52we are being threatened,
12:53we are facing difficulties in giving a decision.
12:56There was no resolution for that.
12:58It did not happen because the government does not want it.
13:00The government wants this pressure to remain.
13:02So, for PTI, the judiciary,
13:06if they thought that they would get something,
13:10they will not get anything.
13:12They will not get anything from the Election Commission.
13:14The tribunals that were supposed to be formed,
13:16or the ones that were supposed to work,
13:17the ones that were supposed to give decisions regarding the February 2024 elections,
13:21they are completely silent.
13:22No action is being taken,
13:23despite the fact that there is a six-month period written in the constitution,
13:26that it should be there.
13:27What did PTI get from the government's protest?
13:29The government is against them.
13:31Let me complete one thing.
13:33They have only one thing left.
13:36Their strength.
13:37Their supporters.
13:38There are millions and millions of them.
13:40And if they start doing soft politics,
13:44they say, Imran Khan, close your Twitter account,
13:46let's start talking nice things from there.
13:48If there are no supporters left,
13:50then the party will end anyway.
13:52So, I think they will only get violence.
13:56No, Mr. Khan, you make statements.
13:57Whatever statements you make,
13:58will their workers follow?
14:00I have a question for you,
14:01and then Mr. Javed.
14:02My question is,
14:03Mr. Zubair,
14:04is there no better person in Pakistan
14:06to ask this question?
14:07You were the translator of Mariam Sahiba,
14:09and Nawaz Sharif as well.
14:10And there was a time when
14:12the situation was very bad.
14:14And then,
14:15the army chief himself told you at that time,
14:17to shut them up.
14:19You had closed Twitter.
14:21For so long,
14:22there was an interview of Voice of America,
14:24it was recorded,
14:25then you were told that
14:26it should not be on air.
14:28Ultimately,
14:29he moved four steps back,
14:30and then gained something.
14:32Although it was unpopular at that time.
14:34No, no, no, it was not like that.
14:36Then what happened?
14:37You made the sequence a little wrong.
14:40First, Twitter was closed.
14:42At the end of 2018,
14:44at the beginning of 2019.
14:46Then Twitter was open.
14:47And then,
14:48when Mr. Nawaz Sharif went into exile,
14:51then there was violence in politics.
14:53And then,
14:54PDM was made.
14:55And then,
14:56name calling started.
14:57The Gujranwala Jalsa was held in October 2020.
15:03And at that time,
15:04the politics of Mahasarai had started.
15:07And the point was,
15:08as Bariyam Nawaz also used to say,
15:10if there is violence,
15:11then there should be reconciliation.
15:12Precisely.
15:13So, you took the temperature to the peak,
15:14and then people moved back.
15:15So, if you do violence,
15:16then they will come.
15:17So, didn't the PTI take the part of violence?
15:19Shouldn't we take out reconciliation from this violence?
15:23No, but it was removed at that time.
15:25There were two things included in it.
15:27One, the establishment at that time,
15:29after three years,
15:30was fed up with the PTI.
15:32With Imran Khan and his performance.
15:34And they were seeing that we have a plan,
15:37and PMLN has it or not.
15:40So, at that time,
15:41Shibaz Sharif came to the front,
15:43and Mariyam Nawaz or Nawaz Sharif,
15:45went into the background.
15:46And all the conversations,
15:48underground or in the background,
15:50that Shibaz Sharif,
15:51because Shibaz Sharif,
15:53wanted to use the path of reconciliation.
15:56He was always against confrontation.
15:58So, when he…
16:00Okay, noted.
16:01So, Mr. Javed,
16:03this is not a threat to you,
16:05as Mr. Zubair was saying,
16:06that the establishment at that time,
16:07and the Jalsa that I am talking about,
16:09Mr. Zubair was also there, I am sure.
16:11All three of us were there,
16:12in the Gujarat Jalsa,
16:13when he took the name.
16:14I was covering it,
16:15I was surprised.
16:16First, I asked my reporter,
16:17I said,
16:18which Bajwa sir are you talking about?
16:21He said,
16:22I am not talking about any other Bajwa sir.
16:24I don't know,
16:25he took the name of the Army Chief.
16:26But, he is saying, Mr. Zubair,
16:28that the establishment at that time,
16:30was fed up with PTI,
16:31and the other side was open.
16:33Are you sure, Mr. Javed,
16:34that the establishment at this time,
16:35is not fed up with you?
16:37Is it okay?
16:41Look, Mr. Wasim,
16:43today, it is not about,
16:45who is fed up with the establishment,
16:49or who is happy with it,
16:51or who will be happy with it.
16:53Because,
16:55the journey has become so long,
16:57that the time is running out,
16:59for the state.
17:01Unfortunately,
17:03today,
17:05our policy,
17:07in the state institutions,
17:09I am very sorry,
17:11and with the government of the time,
17:14the issues,
17:16the issues,
17:18that the state is facing,
17:20there is less talk about them,
17:22there is less thinking about them,
17:24there is less thinking about,
17:26the work of public relief,
17:28there is less policy,
17:30but,
17:32on one side,
17:34someone has hired a committee,
17:36a lobbying firm,
17:38so,
17:40someone else,
17:42is trying to save himself from it.
17:44Someone else,
17:46is trying to get out of it,
17:48is trying to suppress the state.
17:50Someone else,
17:52is trying to save himself,
17:54with the power of the state.
17:56So, I,
17:58may Allah not do this,
18:00but,
18:02as a Pakistani,
18:04I am worried,
18:06that,
18:08if this continues,
18:10then,
18:12we are not doing a good job,
18:14for the people.
18:16So, Mr. Javed,
18:18why are you not playing a role,
18:20in this whole situation?
18:22Now, let's come,
18:24to what you have said.
18:26To get out of this whole situation,
18:28honestly,
18:30I am telling you,
18:32maybe I wouldn't have mentioned it,
18:34but since you have mentioned it,
18:36I am taking this name,
18:38because,
18:40to get out of this whole situation,
18:42even today,
18:44there is a way,
18:46there is a solution,
18:48that whatever you have done,
18:50with Nawaz Sharif,
18:52for God's sake,
18:54express it publicly,
18:56and,
18:58to benefit this state,
19:00from that person,
19:02to benefit this region,
19:04even today,
19:06in Pakistan,
19:08there is a person,
19:10in the form of Nawaz Sharif,
19:12who has the capability,
19:14to get Pakistan out of this mess.
19:16Who is expressing it?
19:18Unfortunately,
19:20let me tell you,
19:22if you say,
19:24that his Jamaat,
19:26or the government of his Jamaat,
19:28which was made,
19:30under an arrangement,
19:32should be removed,
19:34then why should it be removed?
19:36If you look at Pakistan's institutions,
19:38and if you look at Pakistan,
19:40don't look at,
19:42which Jamaat Nawaz Sharif,
19:44is the head of,
19:46don't look at,
19:48whether Waseem Badami,
19:50or Javed Lati,
19:52is speaking for Nawaz Sharif,
19:54the point is,
19:56isn't it the truth,
19:58that what he did in 2013,
20:00for Pakistan,
20:02isn't it the truth,
20:04that what he did in 1997,
20:06and even then,
20:08before the election in 1997,
20:10Waseem Badami,
20:12was being told,
20:14that Nawaz Sharif,
20:16will not be made the government.
20:18The Pak Army should issue a press release,
20:20that our former Army Chief,
20:22got Nawaz Sharif removed,
20:24in Panama,
20:26through the Supreme Court.
20:28After that,
20:30his brother,
20:32whether he expressed it or not,
20:34the Supreme Court,
20:36has included the interest.
20:38No, no, no.
20:40What are you saying exactly?
20:42I think you are saying,
20:44that the atrocities against Nawaz Sharif,
20:46should be removed.
20:48What else should we do?
20:50No, no, no.
20:52I will tell you.
20:54Look, there is a reality,
20:56whether it is £190 million,
20:58or other issues,
21:00that have been incited,
21:02to make people rebel.
21:04This is a reality.
21:06But those statements,
21:08are still being sold.
21:10My brother,
21:12Mohammad Zubair,
21:14was saying,
21:16that if they speak softly,
21:18listen to me,
21:20Mohammad Zubair,
21:22was saying,
21:24that if they speak softly,
21:26then their supporters,
21:28will be less,
21:30than the people,
21:32who are standing,
21:34with such intensity.
21:36Now, let's say,
21:38that one speaker is standing,
21:40and if,
21:42the other speaker,
21:44is not being heard,
21:46by the people of Pakistan,
21:48then I think,
21:50that his...
21:52Sir, the leader's community is in power,
21:54he can give 100 interviews a day,
21:56his opponent's name can't be mentioned,
21:58he can give 500 interviews a day,
22:00600 tweets,
22:02you are saying,
22:04that one community's statement is going on,
22:06and my leader is being talked about,
22:08who is stopping him?
22:10Mr. Waseem Badami,
22:12listen to me,
22:14my request is,
22:16that this is not the reality.
22:18I keep saying,
22:20whether someone calls me good or bad,
22:22but I am stating the reality,
22:24that if,
22:26even today,
22:28from this division,
22:30Nawaz Sharif,
22:32is the Prime Minister three times,
22:34you are saying,
22:36free Nawaz Sharif,
22:38I am saying,
22:40that Pakistan has to be freed,
22:42Pakistan has to be given freedom,
22:44so the one,
22:46who has served three times,
22:48for Pakistan,
22:50bring him,
22:52and make him the Prime Minister,
22:54tomorrow morning,
22:56what is the problem?
22:58No, Waseem,
23:00it is not that simple,
23:02you listen to me.
23:04Mr. Javed,
23:06I am trying to understand,
23:08Mr. Javed,
23:10one second,
23:12one second,
23:14allow me,
23:16allow me to say one sentence,
23:18I, Waseem,
23:20I am daring to say,
23:22Waseem,
23:24you can say,
23:26the results of 8th February,
23:28worse than the elections of 2018,
23:30whatever you feel,
23:32say it,
23:34but tell me,
23:36if,
23:38those who have the government today,
23:40about them,
23:42it should not be said,
23:44that they were losing,
23:46but they were won,
23:48and about those,
23:50who are winning,
23:52it should be said,
23:54that they were losing,
23:56but they were won,
23:58what can be worse than this?
24:00Mr. Zubair,
24:02yes,
24:04see,
24:06there are two things,
24:08first,
24:10Mr. Javed Lateef,
24:12is trying to say,
24:14I think,
24:16he is pointing towards,
24:18the establishment,
24:20that the establishment,
24:22exactly,
24:24there can be no other reason,
24:26there is no one else,
24:28who is ready to accept,
24:30on the basis of common sense,
24:32that your so called majority,
24:34in the parliament,
24:36you can change tomorrow,
24:38the leader of the house,
24:40Nawaz Sharif,
24:42he is also an assembly member,
24:44so,
24:46Mr. Javed Lateef,
24:48is trying to say,
24:50that it is the establishment,
24:52who has decided,
24:54that no,
24:56we don't want Nawaz Sharif,
24:58we want Shibaz Sharif,
25:00and there can be truth in this,
25:02because obviously,
25:04Nawaz Sharif has a past,
25:06and so does Shibaz Sharif,
25:08Shibaz Sharif wants to do,
25:10a policy of mutual understanding,
25:12and so does Shibaz Sharif,
25:14and so does Shibaz Sharif,
25:16and so does Shibaz Sharif,
25:18and so does Shibaz Sharif,
25:20and so does Shibaz Sharif,
25:22and so does Shibaz Sharif,
25:24and so does Shibaz Sharif,
25:26and so does Shibaz Sharif,
25:28and so does Shibaz Sharif,
25:30and so does Shibaz Sharif,
25:32and so does Shibaz Sharif,
25:34and so does Shibaz Sharif,
25:36and so does Shibaz Sharif,
25:38and so does Shibaz Sharif,
25:40and so does Shibaz Sharif,
25:42and so does Shibaz Sharif,
25:44and so does Shibaz Sharif,
25:46and so does Shibaz Sharif,
25:48and so does Shibaz Sharif,
25:50and so does Shibaz Sharif,
25:52and so does Shibaz Sharif,
25:54and so does Shibaz Sharif,
25:56and so does Shibaz Sharif,
25:58and so does Shibaz Sharif,
26:00and so does Shibaz Sharif,
26:02and so does Shibaz Sharif,
26:04and so does Shibaz Sharif,
26:06and so does Shibaz Sharif,
26:08and so does Shibaz Sharif,
26:10and so does Shibaz Sharif,
26:12and so does Shibaz Sharif,
26:14and so does Shibaz Sharif,
26:16and so does Shibaz Sharif,
26:18and so does Shibaz Sharif,
26:20and so does Shibaz Sharif,
26:22and so does Shibaz Sharif,
26:24and so does Shibaz Sharif,
26:26and so does Shibaz Sharif,
26:28and so does Shibaz Sharif,
26:30and so does Shibaz Sharif,
26:32and so does Shibaz Sharif,
26:34and so does Shibaz Sharif,
26:36and so does Shibaz Sharif,
26:38and so does Shibaz Sharif,
26:40and so does Shibaz Sharif,
26:42and so does Shibaz Sharif,
26:44and so does Shibaz Sharif,
26:46and so does Shibaz Sharif,
26:48and so does Shibaz Sharif,
26:50and so does Shibaz Sharif,
26:52and so does Shibaz Sharif,
26:54and so does Shibaz Sharif,
26:56and so does Shibaz Sharif,
26:58and so does Shibaz Sharif,
27:00and so does Shibaz Sharif,
27:02and so does Shibaz Sharif,
27:04and so does Shibaz Sharif,
27:06and so does Shibaz Sharif,
27:08and so does Shibaz Sharif,
27:10and so does Shibaz Sharif,
27:12and so does Shibaz Sharif,
27:14and so does Shibaz Sharif,
27:16and so does Shibaz Sharif,
27:18and so does Shibaz Sharif,
27:20and so does Shibaz Sharif,
27:22and so does Shibaz Sharif,
27:24and so does Shibaz Sharif,
27:26and so does Shibaz Sharif,
27:28and so does Shibaz Sharif,
27:30and so does Shibaz Sharif,
27:32and so does Shibaz Sharif,
27:34and so does Shibaz Sharif,
27:36and so does Shibaz Sharif,
27:38and so does Shibaz Sharif,
27:40and so does Shibaz Sharif,
27:42and so does Shibaz Sharif,
27:44and so does Shibaz Sharif,
27:46and so does Shibaz Sharif,
27:48and so does Shibaz Sharif,
27:50and so does Shibaz Sharif,
27:52and so does Shibaz Sharif,
27:54and so does Shibaz Sharif,
27:56and so does Shibaz Sharif,
27:58and so does Shibaz Sharif,
28:00and so does Shibaz Sharif,
28:02and so does Shibaz Sharif,
28:04and so does Shibaz Sharif,
28:06and so does Shibaz Sharif,
28:08and so does Shibaz Sharif,
28:10and so does Shibaz Sharif,
28:12and so does Shibaz Sharif,
28:14and so does Shibaz Sharif,
28:16and so does Shibaz Sharif,
28:18and so does Shibaz Sharif,
28:20and so does Shibaz Sharif,
28:22and so does Shibaz Sharif,
28:24and so does Shibaz Sharif,
28:26and so does Shibaz Sharif,
28:28and so does Shibaz Sharif,
28:30and so does Shibaz Sharif,
28:32and so does Shibaz Sharif,
28:34and so does Shibaz Sharif,
28:36and so does Shibaz Sharif,
28:38and so does Shibaz Sharif,
28:40and so does Shibaz Sharif,
28:42and so does Shibaz Sharif,
28:44and so does Shibaz Sharif,
28:46and so does Shibaz Sharif,
28:48and so does Shibaz Sharif,
28:50and so does Shibaz Sharif,
28:52and so does Shibaz Sharif,
28:54and so does Shibaz Sharif,
28:56and so does Shibaz Sharif,
28:58and so does Shibaz Sharif,
29:00and so does Shibaz Sharif,
29:02and so does Shibaz Sharif,
29:04and so does Shibaz Sharif,
29:06and so does Shibaz Sharif,
29:08and so does Shibaz Sharif,
29:10and so does Shibaz Sharif,
29:12and so does Shibaz Sharif,
29:14and so does Shibaz Sharif,
29:16and so does Shibaz Sharif,
29:18and so does Shibaz Sharif,
29:20and so does Shibaz Sharif,
29:22and so does Shibaz Sharif,
29:24and so does Shibaz Sharif,
29:26and so does Shibaz Sharif,
29:28and so does Shibaz Sharif,
29:30and so does Shibaz Sharif,
29:32and so does Shibaz Sharif,
29:34and so does Shibaz Sharif,
29:36and so does Shibaz Sharif,
29:38and so does Shibaz Sharif,
29:40and so does Shibaz Sharif,
29:42and so does Shibaz Sharif,
29:44and so does Shibaz Sharif,
29:46and so does Shibaz Sharif,
29:48and so does Shibaz Sharif,
29:50and so does Shibaz Sharif,
29:52and so does Shibaz Sharif.
30:52The issue of 9th May and the position of Mr. Khan in today's date is the same or has changed a bit, you can see for yourself.
30:58He has written that, it is a long story, I will read the summary.
31:02On 9th of May, I was unlawfully arrested by the police as well as rangers from the premises of Islamabad High Court.
31:08Now, I will tell you while leaving more details, he says,
31:11the brutal manner of my arrest resulted in peaceful protests.
31:14As a result of my arrest, peaceful protests were carried out in 9th May, peaceful protests were carried out in the whole country.
31:21Miscreants were added to these protests by those seeking to take advantage of the situation.
31:27He means to say that, those who wanted to take advantage of the situation were included in those protests.
31:38And what happened after that?
31:39This resulted in various incidents of break-in, break-in and damage to property.
31:46Which property was damaged on 9th May? You all know where the break-in took place.
31:50So, this resulted in various incidents of break-in and damage to property that had nothing to do with my party or its policy of peaceful protests.
31:59The reaction of the state was repressive.
32:02The events of 9th May were used as a pretext to arrest thousands of members and supporters of PTI across the country.
32:09This is the position of Mr. Khan today.
32:12We carried out peaceful protests, miscreants were included in those protests,
32:15obviously, he is pointing towards the institutions,
32:18as a result of which, the break-in took place,
32:22the benefit of which was taken and thousands of our supporters were arrested.
32:25Mr. Ali Amin Ghandapur, the government says that they have accepted that our people had crossed the line.
32:32I agree, punish them, but not more than what they deserve.
32:37We don't know what was said in the committee,
32:39but we know what was said on camera.
32:41We had an interview with them two weeks ago.
32:43You listen to what they said in that interview, then we'll talk.
32:45Let's see what Mr. Ali Amin Ghandapur has to say about 9th May.
32:48We don't disown those people.
32:51They were foolish, they made a mistake, they got into trouble.
32:55At least, I don't disown them.
32:57They were my people.
32:58They were our party's people.
33:00And they should be punished or they should be forgiven?
33:01Whoever committed a mistake should be punished according to the law.
33:07I don't disown a person because of their foolishness,
33:11mistake, foolishness, or emotions.
33:14If they have done something, then...
33:15If they have crossed a line, then they should be punished accordingly.
33:20A mistake doesn't mean that you make it unlawful,
33:24that you become selfish and go to this extent with someone.
33:27Sometimes, you shoot someone, sometimes you torture someone.
33:29You torture at that level.
33:32This is the whole story.
33:34Mr. Malik, Mr. Mawad, thank you very much.
33:35Mr. Malik, it is very safe to assume that
33:40the optics that are visible,
33:42PTI's friends are giving us an off-the-record impression
33:45that the issue has been resolved.
33:47Or Mr. Gauhar,
33:49in reality, the issue is still there.
33:51The institution is still thinking what it was thinking yesterday.
33:53And Mr. Khan is also standing there.
33:54He is also writing that this was a false flag.
33:57And the matter is still there.
33:58Is it safe to assume this on the basis of all these things?
34:03Look, what do you expect?
34:06Until something is decided,
34:08Mr. Khan cannot let go of his breath.
34:10And why should he let go?
34:12Why should he give someone a concession for free?
34:17And why should he talk about self-incriminating?
34:21That is not one case.
34:22The case of Bhogat Raib on May 9 is still going on.
34:24Right now, everyone is just waiting for the decision
34:27whether it is a civilian trial or a military trial.
34:30So, this is a very dangerous case.
34:33And the 14-year imprisonment case,
34:37which is being called an open and shut case,
34:40I think that is the most dangerous case.
34:43Because even if the Supreme Court gives a conditional permission,
34:48then a very dangerous path will open up
34:50for the civilians' trial and further punishments.
34:53And it won't be that easy to break the punishments there.
34:56So, this is a very delicate time.
34:58And frankly,
35:01no matter what anyone says,
35:03be it Mr. Gandapur or Mr. Gaur Khan,
35:06it doesn't matter.
35:07Exactly.
35:08PTI is a one-man party.
35:10That is Mr. Imran Khan.
35:12Whatever he says is the PTI's official policy.
35:14That is the PTI's stance.
35:16And it doesn't matter if he said it in your interview.
35:19He said a big thing that some of our people left.
35:22But believe me, in the larger scheme of things,
35:25it doesn't matter.
35:26Yes, okay.
35:26So, Mr. Fawad, again to what Mr. Malik said,
35:30no matter what impression is given on the ground,
35:32no matter what statement is made,
35:33our brother Hamid Raza keeps saying,
35:35that if I tell you what happened,
35:38then you will forget everything.
35:39And I am telling you, the days to laugh have come.
35:41Mr. Khan is coming out in three months.
35:43And friends...
35:44I think the best thing to do is to see what Mr. Khan's tone is.
35:47Let's check his condition with that.
35:49If this is Mr. Khan's tone,
35:51then if something was really going on somewhere
35:53and he was going to some summit,
35:54then he would have been seen in Mr. Khan's tone as well.
35:56Isn't that so, Mr. Fawad? Do you agree?
35:59Look, the thing is that when the conversation was going on with Nawaz Sharif,
36:03at that time, Nawaz Sharif was also being punished.
36:06So, basically, as Mr. Malik has said,
36:08he is saying the right thing,
36:10that why would Imran Khan step back from his narrative?
36:14Look, 9th May, essentially, you will agree with me,
36:17and Mr. Malik will agree with me,
36:19that this is a political narrative.
36:20But look, what is the relation with reality?
36:24For example, if you ask for evidence at some time
36:27and analyze it,
36:28then you will see that there is nothing in it
36:31according to the evidence or from a legal point of view.
36:34I mean, even now, if you see,
36:36the biggest evidence against Imran Khan is that
36:39three police officers changed their attire
36:42and by changing their attire…
36:46You can take it on the phone, if you can hear him.
36:48Yes.
36:50I will ask Mr. Fawad, if you can hear me,
36:52you are saying that
36:55there is evidence that he was a mastermind,
36:58otherwise, the PTI people overstepped and went inside.
37:00There is no doubt in this,
37:02or do you think there is a doubt?
37:03And this was actually a false flag,
37:05in your opinion, Mr. Fawad.
37:06Can you hear me?
37:09Okay, you can take it on the phone.
37:11Mr. Malik, do you agree that
37:13the state is still far from this stage
37:16to establish that he was a mastermind too, Mr. Khan?
37:19In 9th May.
37:19Let me tell you one thing,
37:21till now, the decision,
37:23we used to hear that it was a very open and shut case,
37:25that Mr. Faiz Aneed had started a big trial,
37:29that top city one,
37:31why is his decision not coming?
37:32Yes, right.
37:33This is a very interesting development,
37:35see, you must remember the press release,
37:39the case of ISPR.
37:40I remember both, absolutely.
37:41In the second, it was there that
37:43a separate investigation is underway,
37:45that what was their role in 9th May and others.
37:49And it was also mentioned in that
37:51that the mastermind,
37:52he will also face full punishments.
37:55Clearly,
37:56there is a discussion going on somewhere,
37:58due to which this FIR No. 2,
38:01Khana No. 2,
38:02your common CRPC,
38:05there is Khana No. 2,
38:07the police that cuts the file,
38:09they keep Khana No. 2,
38:11in that, they can put anyone's name at any time.
38:13I think that this,
38:16the success or failure of the negotiations,
38:19this will decide that,
38:21that what will happen to Mr. Faiz Aneed's second case,
38:25and even then, that decision is halted.
38:27The day the decision of Mr. Faiz Aneed comes in the first trial,
38:31then the situation will be very clear after that,
38:33that what is Mr. Imran Khan's future reserve institution.
38:37So, you are saying that it will depend on the negotiations,
38:39that the negotiations for all practical purposes are not over yet.
38:42Many things are connected to it.
38:45No, but sir,
38:45the negotiations for all practical purposes are not over yet.
38:49Sir, this is obvious.
38:50What do you think,
38:51the negotiations that took place,
38:52one day in the morning,
38:53Mr. Imran Khan also decided that he will do the negotiations,
38:56and the Prime Minister also got up in the morning and said,
38:58what do we do today, let's make the negotiations committees.
39:01This does not happen.
39:02The negotiations that took place in front of us,
39:04this was the result of the behind-the-scenes negotiations.
39:07And,
39:08I always say that this was a dining table,
39:11the food was to be cooked somewhere else,
39:12it was to be served from here,
39:14and they had to give each other gifts,
39:16see, they have done a lot of work.
39:17So, where it was cooking,
39:20there was a lot of fire, the food got burnt.
39:22My question is very simple,
39:23if these were the negotiations,
39:25then why did the meeting with Bushra Bibi take place?
39:28If these were the negotiations,
39:30then why did the Army Chief give time to Gauah Sahib and Gandapur Sahib,
39:33despite the four-hour launch order security meeting?
39:38There must have been a four-hour meeting,
39:40everyone was sitting in it.
39:41So, there is a lot more happening on the side.
39:44Clearly,
39:45the results are not coming there,
39:47on the basis of which you say that these negotiations should go ahead.
39:51These negotiations were a mess,
39:54it was to be shown.
39:55Something was going on behind it,
39:57and it is still going on,
39:58and it has not matured yet.
39:59That's what you're saying, right?
40:00That's what I'm saying.
40:02So, Fawad Sahib, do you agree?
40:03Is something really going on behind it, even now?
40:09Fawad Shahi Sahib?
40:10Look, I don't agree with Malik Sahib on this.
40:12I don't agree either, by the way, with all due respect.
40:13Look, Basim, the thing is,
40:16either you give Imran Khan a complete defeat,
40:21Imran Khan is not getting a complete defeat.
40:23It is true that the PTI could not make Bangladesh or bring about a revolution,
40:30but on the other hand,
40:31Imran Khan is not being minused.
40:33Actually, it is a very interesting thing if you look at it,
40:35that whatever policy the establishment made,
40:39they finished the PTI,
40:42but they sent Imran Khan to the sky.
40:45So, actually, the one who had no fight with,
40:48has been slaughtered,
40:50and the one who had a fight with,
40:52has been made more important.
40:55So, if you are advising the establishment at this time,
40:58then actually, there has been a lot of defeat.
41:00I would say that whatever policy was being made or was being done,
41:04Imran Khan did not suffer a loss.
41:06The PTI has suffered a loss.
41:08And at this time, if Imran Khan is in jail,
41:10then it is obvious that his politics are not making any difference.
41:15The problem is that the negotiations that are taking place,
41:20that is why it is important that in the next 40 days,
41:24the biggest thing will be whether international pressure comes or not.
41:29If international pressure comes,
41:31then Imran Khan's relevance will increase and you will have to deal with him.
41:35If it does not come,
41:37then finally, the establishment and the government,
41:40Nawaz Sharif was just saying that Javed Lateef should be released,
41:44and the poor people should be brought back.
41:45You tell me,
41:46you have ended the politics of the Noon League in all these matters,
41:50you have ended the politics of the Peoples' Party.
41:53The rift that you have created in the establishment and the people,
41:57after all, how big a price is this policy paying?
42:01So, if this policy would have been successful,
42:04and you would have given Imran Khan,
42:07Nawaz Sharif or Benazir,
42:10you would have done it.
42:11There is a very wrong example that we had removed Iltaf Hussain
42:16and ended the MQM.
42:18The MQM was built on a gun.
42:21When they took the gun back from Iltaf Hussain,
42:23the MQM sat down.
42:24Imran Khan has no issue,
42:26he is not standing on a gun.
42:28So, unfortunately,
42:29Pakistan is suffering in this fight.
42:32So, as long as this policy of yours is continuous,
42:37Imran Khan is not suffering,
42:39but Pakistan is suffering a great loss.
42:41And I am sure that it is being realised there and that is why I am saying this.
42:45You want to add something, Malik sahib?
42:46Yes, Basim, look,
42:48first of all, it is important to understand that
42:49negotiation is not a four-letter word.
42:52Negotiations do not show anyone's weakness or strength.
42:55Negotiations are necessary.
42:57People think that when we are talking about negotiations,
42:59we are just saying that Imran Khan is needed.
43:02No, negotiations need state institutions as well as Imran Khan.
43:08They need political stability.
43:10Imran Khan needs his own politics,
43:13he needs his freedom, he needs everything.
43:15And all these casual talks that
43:18Imran Khan is fine, he is in jail,
43:20these are the things that ordinary people say
43:22who have not seen jail.
43:24Look, it is very easy to hear.
43:26What has happened?
43:27It has been a year since you have been in jail.
43:29The year of jail takes 10 years of normal life.
43:32We have seen jails.
43:34Believe me, Basim, the day of jail is not 24 hours.
43:39It seems like a day of 24 months passes.
43:41Time stops there.
43:43Time stops.
43:45Your day does not end.
43:46It is not a joke that you have been in jail for a year and a half,
43:49so it will not make a difference.
43:50Physical incarceration.
43:52If I get you imprisoned in your house tomorrow,
43:54how is the risk?
43:55You hit the walls after 15 days.
43:57You go crazy.
43:59I say, jail is not an easy thing.
44:01Just because I am in jail.
44:03Sir, this is absolutely true.
44:07Sir, this is true, but the problem is that
44:11either these strictness, these things,
44:14have made Imran Khan go back in his position.
44:16Like Nawaz Sharif went back in his position.
44:19Benazir Bhutto, who was a model, went back.
44:22Politically, he has gained.
44:27But the issue is that
44:30No, but what is the issue?
44:32I just want to add one point.
44:36No.
44:37I just want to add one point.
44:40It is obvious that it is very difficult for you to stay in jail.
44:45We have also come to cut the months.
44:47The problem is that why is Imran Khan kept in jail?
44:52The reason for keeping Imran Khan in jail is
44:55that after he agrees,
44:56and we get that political stability,
44:59that Imran Khan goes out,
45:01which has been a tradition in our country.
45:03Now Imran Khan has come out of slippers.
45:07He is neither going nor is he dealing.
45:09So see, ultimately,
45:10I am saying that the policy that was made after thinking,
45:14that policy did not turn out to be right.
45:16Now this game of nerves has happened.
45:17Who blinks first?
45:19Now let's manage Imran Khan.
45:22Now this is a psychological war, Mr. Fawad.
45:23Who goes first?
45:25This has gone beyond the nerves.
45:27Both have shown their nerves.
45:29See, there are two alpha males in this.
45:31Imran Khan is also an alpha male.
45:35Imran has popular power.
45:37The other alpha males have ground power.
45:40Two different things.
45:42Both have a conflict of their personalities.
45:44See, I always say that in Pakistan,
45:47every person is bigger than his office.
45:50The one who sits in the office of the Prime Minister,
45:51considers himself bigger than the Prime Minister.
45:53Same goes with the non-civilian organizations also.
45:57Here, the two personalities are very important.
46:01It has become a personalized thing.
46:03This is a mistrust factor.
46:05Even if there is a deal,
46:07there is a negotiated settlement,
46:09and Imran comes out,
46:10when he comes out and sees two lakh people,
46:13he will say,
46:13come on, let's renegotiate.
46:15Now they are afraid of this.
46:17The problem is that the element of mistrust,
46:19this is the biggest obstacle in any agreement.
46:23This is the reality.
46:24The rest,
46:24no matter how much theoretical we talk,
46:27there are two strong people.
46:29Both have extreme power.
46:31One has popular power,
46:32one has administrative power.
46:34The mistrust is very high.
46:35Who will end this mistrust?
46:37This is the question.
46:38International guarantors in Pakistan,
46:40who will guarantee to end their mistrust?
46:42No, no, guarantors,
46:46see, what the owner has said,
46:48one second,
46:49now the owner has said that
46:50one has popular power,
46:52one has physical power.
46:55I am telling you this only,
46:57who is suffering loss in this fight?
46:59The real loss is of Pakistan.
47:01All these people,
47:02the Pakistani citizens,
47:05they are affected by this.
47:06But Omar Ali Shah is not saying
47:07that the fight has gone so far
47:08that now the trust is deficient.
47:11Khawaj, this is the thing,
47:13both sides have to think
47:14more than their own self.
47:16Everyone.
47:19But now the fight has gone so far,
47:21now here,
47:22I mean, the owner,
47:23Mr. Fawad must have agreed,
47:25that if some international guarantors come,
47:28then this loss of trust
47:29can be reduced.
47:31Some people can take guarantees from each other.
47:32Or what?
47:33How will the path come out of here?
47:35Sir, see,
47:35it seems that
47:37till today,
47:39when the leadership of the military institution
47:40and the fights of the elected prime ministers have taken place,
47:43they have been on power and politics.
47:46Okay?
47:46Here, the situation is a little different.
47:49Here, the post-life element has also come.
47:51There was DG ISI,
47:52he fired him.
47:54Then there was Mr. Faiz Isa,
47:55against whom he put a reference.
47:57Later, he said that I was told.
47:59But anyway,
48:00that judge became the Chief Justice,
48:02he became the Army Chief.
48:04At that time,
48:05his star came down from the power point of view.
48:08So,
48:08there was a double whammy.
48:10Both sides hit now.
48:12Now the problem is that
48:13the government of the day,
48:15that
48:17is at a loss.
48:18If Imran Khan talks to anyone,
48:21if he has any better relationship with the army,
48:24it is at their expense.
48:25So, he is also not interested.
48:26He will also jeopardize every dialogue.
48:29He will also make torpedoes.
48:30On top of that, he can say whatever he wants.
48:31But he doesn't want to talk.
48:32So, this story has become so tangled
48:34that it has become very difficult to solve now?
48:36No, nothing is impossible in life.
48:39Politics is called the art of possible.
48:41I am just saying,
48:42I don't have an answer to this,
48:44that who can end mistrust
48:47or who can be the guarantor in the middle?
48:48I am asking you again and again.
48:51Can't any international guarantor do this?
48:53I just wanted to add one thing.
48:55Look,
48:56I just wanted to add to the guarantors
48:58that I had a talk with two major ambassadors.
49:03Dude, look and talk.
49:04I know that you have already had a lot of talks with an ambassador.
49:08Just look at it.
49:09I am your Mohsin, Mr. Fawad.
49:11No, absolutely.
49:12Okay, they told me that
49:13the thing is that
49:14it is true that
49:15traditionally there are only three countries
49:17that have done such interference in Pakistan.
49:20It is America, UAE and Saudi Arabia.
49:23But the problem at the moment is that
49:25the Arab countries think that
49:27just looking at Pakistan
49:28will cost them a few billion dollars.
49:30So, they are not keen at the moment.
49:32And America has its own big problems.
49:34So, you have to solve these problems yourself.
49:36Don't look outside.
49:37I think this is a very wise advice.
49:40And even now,
49:41if we don't understand this,
49:43The two ambassadors from Malik...
49:48Yes, absolutely.
49:49And what Malik has said at this time,
49:53what Malik has said is absolutely right.
49:56That you are in popular power versus
49:58we are in physical power and Pakistan is suffering.
50:02Look, we ourselves should also be a little wise.
50:05We should also realize that
50:07this country cannot afford more than this.
50:10We have to take one step back
50:11and normalize some things.
50:13If we want to take it further,
50:16frankly, it will go further.
50:17Mr. Fawad, there is only one minute left.
50:19I wanted to ask you a question.
50:21Because you always say that
50:23PTI should be joined by Mr. Maulana
50:26and form a joint opposition alliance.
50:27Now, finally, PTI is on the right track,
50:29you think, Mr. Khan said.
50:30It is on the right track.
50:32Do you think this strategy will succeed?
50:34This is the last minute.
50:35This is the strategy.
50:38This is the strategy.
50:39And the important thing is that
50:41when we sit on the topic of negotiations,
50:43more people are with us.
50:44People of all levels are with us.
50:46Look, the negotiations that are taking place right now,
50:48yesterday, Mr. Malik was saying that
50:50Gauhar's problem is also a practical problem.
50:52Obviously, they cannot go beyond a certain limit.
50:55We need such people.
50:58In my opinion, the guarantors are
51:00Pakistan's local guarantors.
51:02They will be much better
51:03instead of looking outside.
51:05Very interesting account.
51:06Thank you very much.
51:07Thank you very much to both the guests.
51:09Let's see how the matter goes.
51:10Stay healthy.
51:11See you in the next episode.
51:12Allah Hafiz.