Visit our website:
http://www.france24.com
Like us on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/FRANCE24.English
Follow us on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/France24_en
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00Tens of thousands of people took to the streets of Germany's capital on Sunday.
00:04Demonstrators were out in force to rally against the far-right AFD.
00:08The gathering against the Alternative for Germany comes ahead of legislative elections.
00:12It also comes days after the head of the Christian Democrats broke a long-held taboo in the country
00:18and joined forces with the AFD to push through an anti-immigration bill.
00:21Chanting We are the Firewall and holding slogans like Shame on you CDU,
00:30at least 160,000 people took to the streets of Berlin on Sunday,
00:35protesting the conservative party's collaboration with the far-right.
00:41I think we should move away from the right again.
00:44The protests continued until dusk.
00:47We see examples all over the world of conservative parties that are slipping,
00:50that want to please the radical right instead of standing up for their democratic foundations.
00:54And we fear that we are currently seeing this happening in the CDU in Germany.
00:57This is a huge danger.
01:02Tensions started brewing last week when the leader of the CDU party, Friedrich Merz,
01:07tried to push an anti-immigration motion in the Bundestag
01:11with the help of votes from the far-right AFD party.
01:15Although rejected on Friday,
01:17the joint vote shattered post-war Germany's unwritten rule of never cooperating with the far-right.
01:24At an election rally on Sunday, Merz addressed the protests.
01:29Demonstrating is the right of every citizen in our country.
01:33The right to demonstrate is one of the fundamental rights of our constitution.
01:36However, this does not include acts of violence, neither against people nor against property.
01:42The conservative leader is the front-runner in Germany's upcoming federal election,
01:47polling at 30 percent, followed by the AFD with around 20 percent.
01:53Merz has promised to go all-in on immigration.
01:56But analysts say that flirting with the far-right
02:00could alienate Merz from his more moderate political base.
02:05We can now bring in Armin Steinbeck, Jean Monnet Professor of Law and Economics at HEC University
02:11in Paris. Thank you so much for joining us here on the program today.
02:14Now, the AFD is poised to get around 20 percent of the vote in the upcoming elections in Germany.
02:21I know that given Germany's past, it's understandable
02:24why people were out on the streets in protest in Berlin last night.
02:27But how long can this taboo of not getting into the bed with the AFD go on for?
02:33Given that they're so popular?
02:36We are definitely in a crucial situation, in a highly polarized situation.
02:41Everybody in the society, if you look at the polls, thinks that there must be a turnaround
02:46policy on asylum policies, but nobody really wants the mainstream parties to collaborate with them.
02:52So on the one side, action must be taken on a topic, on a policy field,
02:57which is the topic for the populist parties.
03:02But on the other side, nobody wants to collaborate. So it's really a dilemma.
03:05So is this why the CDU and the CSU have vowed to crack down on irregular migrants?
03:12Are they being pragmatic by making the issue that is the rallying cry for the AFD their own issue?
03:19We should not forget that we are three weeks before a snap election.
03:23So every party tries to distinguish itself from the other political opponents.
03:28And the way chosen by the CDU, by its leader, Friedrich Merz, is to demonstrate action and to
03:34signal to the citizens that he gives a guarantee on a turnaround on asylum policy.
03:40And that's why this degree of polarization that we see at the very moment.
03:45Elon Musk has come out in strong support of the AFD.
03:49How dangerous is this?
03:52This is very dangerous.
03:53This has been seen very skeptical by the mainstream party.
03:56Obviously, it gives a huge boost to the AFD, which now feels to be acknowledged by the US,
04:03by the richest men of the world.
04:05But many other parties in Germany see this as a clear interference,
04:08an interference of the richest men in the world with democracy in other countries.
04:13So there's a high degree of resistance to Elon Musk.
04:16Olaf Scholz has floated the possibility that the CDU could join forces with the AFD in the
04:22aftermath of the election and govern that way.
04:25Do you think that's a possibility?
04:26Or as he says, he's just calling out, you know, just worrying essentially the country?
04:34At this point, I don't think that is a likely event that would occur after the election.
04:39What the CDU has been doing, they have this soft collaboration with the decisions last
04:44week taken in the parliament being supported by the AFD, but clearly not officially collaborating
04:52with them.
04:53So everybody in the CDU explicitly rules out that there would be any coalition
04:59or formal agreement with the AFD.
05:01I think at this point, this is a credible statement.
05:04Here in France, for instance, we have, as you know, the far right,
05:08National Rally Party.
05:09They're not in government, yet they need to support the government.
05:15They need to prop up the government in some way.
05:17We have potentially a motion of no confidence if the far right votes for it, they can have
05:24the power to bring down this government.
05:26Do you think that the AFD is going to have that power in the future in Germany, that
05:32level of power?
05:34In Germany, there is no such motion of no confidence like in France.
05:38In Germany, in order to launch a motion of no confidence, you must constructively propose
05:43a replacement of the government.
05:45So it's much more difficult in Germany to bring a motion of no confidence.
05:49However, there is clearly a parallel.
05:52The firewall that is discussed in Germany against the AFD is a kind of the Republican
05:56front that is discussed in France against the Rassemblement National.
06:00And you see the normalization strategy both pursued by the Rassemblement National as well
06:06as the AFD.
06:07So you see clearly the populist parties becoming stronger with a strong headwind by the mainstream
06:13parties.
06:14Okay, I'm going to leave it at that.
06:15Thank you so much for joining us on the program today.
06:17You're welcome.