Tensions escalated in Punjab as the AAP government and farmer unions clash ahead of the 'Chandigarh Chalo' protests organized by the Sanyukt Kisan Morcha (SKM) on March 5.
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00:00Was it Punjab Chief Minister versus the Punjab farmers?
00:08Did an angry Bhagwant Maan storm out of a meeting with the Samyukt Kisan Morcha?
00:16I request Mr. Kejriwal that the fault lies with the people of Delhi.
00:20The people of Delhi didn't let you win.
00:22Get angry with the people of Punjab.
00:24The government's forced entry into the farmers' strike committee and the farmers' labor movement is a disgrace.
00:32I said, I didn't meet you out of fear.
00:34I met you before without a protest.
00:36I am your friend.
00:38I keep a close eye on the farmers.
00:40You might have gone to the fields.
00:42I will go to the fields.
00:44But don't say that the protest will continue.
00:47And the meeting too.
00:48I said, today's meeting is cancelled.
00:52The SKM had called for a week-long dharna in Chandigarh starting 5th in support of their demands.
01:00Talks between the Punjab government and the SKM leaders to discuss these demands broke down midway.
01:08On 3rd March, when farm leaders claimed a livid Bhagwant Maan walked out of the meeting in a huff without any provocation.
01:19However, Maan claims his doors to the farmers are always open.
01:27But inconvenience and harassment to the public in the name of agitation should be avoided.
01:34Is there a shift in Punjab's farm policy?
01:39Meanwhile, it's Chalo Chandigarh for the farmers.
02:03Is there a shift in the way the Aam Aadmi Party government in Punjab is now going to deal with the farmers?
02:08Till now, they've been more placated.
02:10Are they going to be more firm now?
02:12First up, allow me to take you through the headlines.
02:18Yogi Adityanath hails the Mahakumbh.
02:20Says Western media praised arrangements at the religious congregation.
02:24Takes on Samajwadi Party, calls them anti-Hindu.
02:33Massage chairs in Karnataka assembly.
02:35Recliners for power naps.
02:37MLAs now demand salary hike.
02:44Netas vs Abhinetas in Karnataka.
02:47Rashmika rejects Congress' claim of being invited for Karnataka Film Festival.
02:51Now Kangana also joins in.
02:53Says actors belong to no one.
02:57Maharashtra Minister Dhananjay Munday resigns after his aide accused of murder of Beed Sarpanch.
03:05Horrific pictures come out.
03:07Munday cites health grounds for resignation.
03:10Brutal details of torture in Chadshi.
03:18US pauses Ukraine aid hours after warning he will not put up with Zelensky.
03:24Rays after stunning public clash between Zelensky and Donald Trump.
03:55Who are the protesting farmers?
03:57They have come under the clarion call of Chandigarh Chalo.
04:01This call was made by the Samyukt Kisan Morcha on March 5th.
04:07The SKM is an umbrella group of 37 farm unions.
04:11Spearheaded year-long protests in 2020-21 at the Delhi border if you remember.
04:17What is also important to remember viewers is
04:21that the then government which was also the Aam Aadmi Party stood
04:25shoulders to shoulder with the farmers when they were protesting in Delhi.
04:30What has led to a possible change of heart?
04:32Is there a change of heart when it comes down to the Aam Aadmi Party led government in Punjab
04:39vis-a-vis the farmers protesting there?
04:41We are going to try and put the focus on that.
04:43But let's take you now to what are the demands of these farmers.
04:47Well, the farmers want a coordinate with the center enacted through of course the Punjab government.
04:55A framework for debt relief.
04:57Fulfill commitments to kin of farmers who died during Delhi protests.
05:01There have been hundreds of farmers who had died when the farmers were protesting in Delhi.
05:06The farmers want the commitments which were made by successive Punjab government
05:12as well as the central government to come good on that.
05:14And the Punjab government to put pressure on the central government to own up to the promises
05:19that were made to the farm unions then.
05:22Moreover, the farmers want the MSP for crops like basmati rice, maize, moong, potatoes, peas.
05:29Compensate for losses incurred due to delayed procurement of paddy.
05:34One time settlement scheme for loans.
05:38Waiver of electricity bills for installed motors.
05:41Now this is one of the lacunas here viewers.
05:44Because the farmers here are wanting waiver of electricity bill on domestic meters.
05:50They already get free electricity under the agriculture electricity scheme.
05:56Now issuing rifle licenses to farmers to prevent crop damage.
06:01This is what the farmers want.
06:03They also want implementing prepaid electricity meters for farmers.
06:08Banning forced supply of nano packaging and other products.
06:12Providing compensation for sugarcane crop damage.
06:15Incorporate suggestions from farmers, organizations into policy.
06:19So these are the demands that have been, most of the demands that have been made by the farmers.
06:25There are, you know, a few of the demands which we are also going to touch on,
06:28which many say is inappropriate for the farmers to ask.
06:32We will take it to the farm unions.
06:34But what has been, because Punjab has been a state, viewers, that has seen a lot of farm movements.
06:41The one that we saw in 2020, 2021, which played out at the Singu border of the national capital,
06:47also largely was fueled by farmers coming in from Punjab.
06:50And one of the morchas there was fronted by the SKM, which is now in contention with the Punjab government.
06:58Let's talk just about what the history of the farmer government face-off has been in Punjab.
07:042020-21 sent us three farm laws.
07:07First triggered a small-scale protest in Punjab.
07:09Mind you, if our viewers remember, that massive scale of protest that we saw in the national capital
07:14actually stemmed in Punjab.
07:16For many days, weeks actually, at end, the protesting farmers squatted in and around Chandigarh
07:23and then slowly gravitated and moved towards Delhi.
07:26Farm unions then organized tractor marches and rail blockades.
07:29Farmers protested outside houses of leaders and BJP and even Chidamani Akali Dal.
07:342024 onwards, of course, because then the three farm laws were taken back.
07:39There was a lull, a couple of protests.
07:41In 2024, which has led to the current protests, is a continuation of the previous movements,
07:46demand legal guarantees for MSP and loan forgiveness.
07:50In the middle of it, there have been a few face-offs which have been unforgiving
07:55for both the police and the farmers, because the farmers have marched in from Punjab into Haryana.
08:01And if you remember, there was a farmer who also lost his life in alleged police firing.
08:07So all of that now playing into another face-off brewing in Punjab
08:11between the Punjab government and the Samyut Kisan Morcha farmers.
08:16They're also being joined by other groups as well.
08:18But what led to the biggest flashpoint was when Bhagwant Maan, the chief minister of Punjab,
08:24while the meeting was on, suddenly decided to leave the meeting in a huff.
08:29The farmers say he left without provocation.
08:32Bhagwant Maan says that, you know, my doors are always open,
08:36but not at the cost of inconveniencing the people of Punjab,
08:39and Punjab cannot be known as a dharna state.
08:42At the back of it, there are certain questions that we pose this evening.
08:45Our first question, who was right, the government or the agitating farmers?
08:50That's the big conundrum, viewers, because that's been a question
08:53that has been asked multiple times over ever since we've seen massive farm protests
08:57starting all the way in 2020.
09:00The other question that we are asking this evening, from being plicative,
09:05because mind you, the Punjab government was always very plicative of the farmers.
09:09They actually stood and took on the central government
09:12when, in firing, one farmer had died in Haryana.
09:16In 2020, the Aam Aadmi Party government in Delhi
09:19stood shoulder to shoulder with the farmers.
09:21So the question that we are asking this evening,
09:23has the Punjab government changed its strategy when it comes down to its farmer policy,
09:28how to deal with farmers?
09:29The larger question stemming from there, are farmers being unreasonable?
09:33And has the government failed to deliver on promises to farmers?
09:40And are successive governments losing patience with farmers?
09:44Does India lack a cohesive agriculture policy,
09:49is the final question that we are asking this evening.
09:53Alright, I want to cut across right now to our panellists,
09:56RP Singh, National Spokesperson, Bharatiya Janata Party,
09:59Dr Sunny Singhaluwalia, Spokesperson Aam Aadmi Party,
10:01Ravneet Singh Brar, National Spokesperson, BKU Qadian.
10:05But BKU Qadian faction is also part of the SKM faction,
10:09which is protesting right now in Punjab.
10:11I want to begin with the Aam Aadmi Party Spokesperson,
10:14Dr Sunny Singhaluwalia, and the question, sir, is very strict.
10:17Let's go back to 2020.
10:19The Samyukt Kisan Morcha was one of the key factions
10:21that was holding protests at the Singhu border for over a year.
10:25At that point of time, the Delhi government, headed by then Arvind Kejriwal,
10:29stood shoulder to shoulder with these farmers,
10:31accusing the central government of not listening to them.
10:34Has there been a change in strategy?
10:37Because last year, when there were firing on farmers in Haryana,
10:41Bhagwant Maan once again spoke up for the same faction,
10:45on which that meeting which took place yesterday, he walked out now.
10:49Is there a shift in strategy by the Punjab government
10:53when it comes down to how to deal with farmers?
10:58Definitely, there is no change.
11:01The agriculture state of Punjab, the top priority remains
11:05that our farmers, whatever their demands are,
11:08we should sit on the table, we should negotiate for them.
11:11The Chief Minister of Punjab has been negotiating with the centre team as well.
11:17But when it comes to holding a big protest,
11:20you can very well know that Punjab is already the border state.
11:26And on the border state, when we enter from Haryana,
11:30there is only one entry, that is from Haryana,
11:33or we can enter from Rajasthan.
11:34The Haryana entry is blocked from one side.
11:38That is blocked from the Haryana side as well.
11:40And there are some farmers protesting at that.
11:42And then we have one more entry where also there is little blockage there also.
11:47So, there is a heavy rush which is coming to the Punjab via Chandigarh.
11:51And the farmers, when the Chief Minister is ready to negotiate on everything,
11:56on their every demand,
11:57then they should not say that we will even come to Chandigarh
12:00and will block the Chandigarh at the same time for one week long.
12:03It will cause inconvenience to not only to the public, to the industry of Punjab.
12:08At one time, the Punjab government,
12:12the Chief Minister of Punjab is trying to negotiate with the centre
12:15and is also negotiating with the Punjab farmers.
12:18Out of their 18 demands, the 9 demands were accepted on the first day.
12:23After accepting 9 demands, if the farmer association at any time
12:28says that we will block the roads, this is not a way.
12:31We are living in a state where there are other people also.
12:34There are industries there. There are traders there.
12:36There are schools going.
12:37Sari Singh Aluwalia, as I bring in Ravneet Singh Baradhan to this conversation,
12:43the language you are speaking, Dr. Aluwalia,
12:46is exactly the language which the centre spoke in 2020
12:49that this is causing inconvenience, traffic jams.
12:51There are other people that you are inconveniencing.
12:55No, but I am saying that if there are 5 ways which are coming to Punjab
13:01and out of that 2 ways are blocked, then what is the area?
13:05How can we see our business?
13:07How can we see other things as well?
13:09When there are 10 multiple places coming to one place,
13:11then you can see what happens.
13:13But when we are ready to negotiate, the centre was never ready to negotiate.
13:17Even now, the problem is with the centre
13:20that the centre promised the legal guarantee on the MSP,
13:24but they are not giving the legal guarantee on MSP.
13:26Now, we are trying to negotiate at the same time,
13:28but that doesn't mean that you block the state highways from all the side.
13:32So, it is our request to the farmers.
13:34We are ready to negotiate at every time with farmers.
13:36Farmers are our Amdata.
13:38They are the food capital.
13:40They are providing everything for India.
13:43They are providing everything, the rice, the wheat, which is required.
13:46At one time, there is shortage of wheat all over India,
13:49but the Punjab farmers are providing that.
13:52At the same time, we want to negotiate.
13:54We don't want the state to suffer.
13:56Even the wheat carrying the railways, if we stop that…
14:00Alright, I'll come back to you.
14:01I'm going to circle back to you.
14:03I want to cut across to Ravneet Singh Barar.
14:05Ravneet Singh Barar, the Chief Minister of the Aam Aadmi Party,
14:11Chief Minister of Punjab, is very clear,
14:14saying at least what is being alleged right now on the show,
14:17that our doors are open, but you've got to be reasonable.
14:19You cannot be unreasonable and inconvenience the people
14:22by blocking all routes, number one.
14:24Number two, Ravneet Singh Barar,
14:26the list of demands, and I'm going through them,
14:28and correct me if I'm wrong, sir.
14:30Correct me if I'm wrong, because it also has some bizarre demands
14:33of change the national education policy.
14:36What do farmers have to do with the NEP?
14:41Thank you, Preeti ji.
14:43Let me start with just a few corrections.
14:46Thank you to all the panelists sitting across me,
14:49because we are coming to Chandigarh not to block roads.
14:53We already had a meeting with Chandigarh administration.
14:56It was additional deputy commissioner on Friday,
15:00and we asked him to allocate us sector 34 ground
15:03or some other ground where we can sit and protest for a week long.
15:07And it was earlier we came last year,
15:10and for a day we came to sector 34.
15:13It was a peaceful protest, and we went back from the route
15:16that was designed for us.
15:18Same way we wanted to come this time,
15:20and we were keen to sit there,
15:23just because otherwise our demands,
15:26which were 18 demands we were discussing,
15:29out of 18, 12 demands were the demands
15:32which chief minister of Punjab has already agreed to it.
15:36In 2023, 19th December,
15:39we had a meeting with honorable chief minister, sir,
15:42and he agreed to 12 demands,
15:45but none of it was implemented on ground.
15:48That's why we came again and we wanted to discuss
15:51that every time we have a meeting,
15:54but the demands are not implemented on the ground.
15:57And other thing,
16:00we were coming from different parts of the Punjab
16:03not to block highways or to block railways,
16:06as it is portrayed by chief minister, sir,
16:09and other panelists.
16:12We were coming straight from Punjab
16:15and entering a point, a ground or something,
16:18like Ramlila ground in Delhi,
16:21or there is a ground in 25 sector or 34 sector.
16:24We would be sitting there and we would be provoking
16:27our demands to have a meeting with CM, sir,
16:30so that it should be fulfilled.
16:33And the other thing, the policy for education.
16:36We were concerned because even our children
16:39goes to school and we were concerned
16:42about the changes in the policy.
16:45That's why we were bothered.
16:48I want to bring in the BJP spokesperson
16:51because I will come back, sir,
16:54and maybe you can touch upon that
16:57because the question I will raise
17:00and I will give you some time to think about it.
17:03What really matters to them immediately
17:06but to nationalize licenses of arms and weapons,
17:09scrap national education policy,
17:12don't put domestic electricity meters
17:15even though farmer electricity is already free
17:18are some of the demands that can be debated
17:21and are worrisome though.
17:24Why should farmers be putting these demands is the question.
17:27I will come back to you.
17:30It's a question of public space.
17:33Traditionally, historically,
17:36the context is that you have to occupy public space to protest.
17:39That is the right to protest
17:42and that's the only way you build pressure on the establishment
17:45is to occupy public spaces.
17:48Even though the Aam Aadmi Party
17:51suddenly seemed to suggest that you are inconveniencing people
17:54in 2020, this was your grouse.
17:57Preeti, the issue is not
18:00what space they will pick up or where they will protest
18:03this secondary.
18:06First is what happened in the meeting.
18:09That's the bigger concern.
18:12And why the meeting was called off in a half hour.
18:15That's another bigger concern.
18:18I don't know, the farmer leaders have been telling
18:21that out of 18, 8 demands were discussed
18:24and you first promised me that you will not do education on 5th
18:27and then I will go further.
18:30But there is no way to negotiate and talk.
18:33If you have made commitments, fulfilled commitments,
18:36if we have made commitments, we should also fulfill commitments.
18:39And if they think that it has to be done by us,
18:42then why are you holding meetings?
18:45We are already holding meetings with the farmers.
18:48We resolve the issues
18:51with the farmers.
18:54But the issue is that you are holding meetings,
18:57you make commitments.
19:00For example, in the neighbouring state, Haryana,
19:03MSP is there for every crop,
19:06even to the extent of vegetables also,
19:09but it's not there in Punjab.
19:12So obviously, for example, another state, Rajasthan and Madhya Pradesh,
19:15they have given bonuses of probably Rs 175 and Rs 150
19:18to the MSP, to the farmers on the wheat.
19:21For example, Rajasthan,
19:24if I rightly remember, is giving Rs 6,000 plus to the farmers
19:27as the Kisan Saman Nidhi.
19:30So every state has their own parameters
19:33and their own pointers to work on.
19:36But if you are discussing something,
19:39why do you walk out in a huff?
19:42That's the biggest concern.
19:45Once you come with a commitment,
19:48and you are there to discuss and talk on a subject,
19:51then you don't come with it and say,
19:54no, no, my time gets over by 7.30 and some other engagement.
19:57That doesn't work.
20:00If you have made a commitment and the farmer leaders are on record saying
20:03that he has ample time, I will discuss each and every issue.
20:06But we all know.
20:09It's a problem with the time in the evening.
20:12The fact is,
20:15it can be amusing,
20:18but the political stands were completely different
20:21of the Aam Aadmi Party and the BJP in 2020
20:24when the farmers were protesting at the Singhu border.
20:27In politics like this, where you stand is where you sit.
20:30Now it seems to be completely the opposite.
20:33I will go back to the Aam Aadmi Party spokesperson.
20:36There is a relevant point that has been raised by both the farm unions
20:39and now the BJP.
20:42The BJP is asking the same questions that you asked the BJP
20:45in 2020, which is number one.
20:48Why walk out in a huff?
20:51The farm unions are saying
20:54there was no provocation.
20:57The CM heard the farm unions and just walked off in a huff.
21:00What is the messaging that you are sending?
21:03One thing we want to make clear
21:06is that the doors are still open
21:09for any kind of talks, any kind of negotiations
21:12with the farm unions.
21:15We have never said that we are not going to talk, number one.
21:18The negotiations will be still on.
21:21This is not a problem.
21:24We are ready to accept their demands,
21:27which will be done by the state government, by the CM of Punjab.
21:30That is for sure.
21:33The BJP is the party
21:36when our farmer leaders were on to the fast for death.
21:39At that time also, they were not ready to talk.
21:42And after convincing them,
21:45after writing them a letter, even from the Punjab CM,
21:48they were not ready to talk.
21:51And they are talking about us. They are telling us how to handle the situation.
21:54We are very clearly open to every kind of
21:57negotiations with the farmers.
22:00You, the BJP, you should only do one thing.
22:03You said that we will complete the demands.
22:06You tell us that you are not going to give the MSP to the farmers.
22:09We will fulfil it ourselves.
22:12If you are not ready, please mention.
22:15Don't say that we are ready to talk.
22:18We will talk and we will give MSP.
22:21The neighbouring state is giving.
22:24As I go to Ravneet Singh Barar,
22:27the promises are what Mr. Barar is saying.
22:30That is the main reason they are here today.
22:33The promises,
22:36we are telling you what are their demands
22:39and how to go ahead with this.
22:42Now, they are saying that the compensation
22:45has already been provided even for the people
22:48who were literally
22:51they died
22:54because of the farmer agitation in Delhi.
22:57Punjab government fulfilled that promise.
23:00But at the same time,
23:03the centre, even after repeated requests,
23:06even after getting 3-4 years,
23:09they are not able to do the same.
23:12I am running short of time but I want to get both our other guests back in.
23:15Ravneet Singh Barar, two things.
23:18Number one, the Punjab government is saying that we are already providing a road map
23:21and we have done what we needed to do.
23:24Now the centre is not delivering.
23:27How are you pinning the blame on us?
23:30Number two, Ravneet Singh Barar,
23:33the question that I asked you,
23:36how is nationalised licence of arms and weapons
23:39scrapped the national education policy?
23:42Do not put domestic electricity metres,
23:45relevant demands of farmers?
23:48Do not put these metres on domestic things.
23:51We ask for not to put prepaid metres
23:54in domestic.
23:57There is a correction.
24:00And there is a correction in arm licence.
24:03We ask for licence to be made simple
24:06so that in the areas of Punjab
24:09where these animals come
24:12and destroy our crops, there is a correction.
24:15Third thing,
24:18there is a lot of difference.
24:21There is an English saying, action speaks louder than words.
24:24Our doors are open.
24:27But what is happening in Punjab?
24:30Our doors are being shut and police
24:33are standing in front of our doors
24:36and our farm leaders are being arrested at midnight.
24:392am, 1am, 3am.
24:42The other thing, if our demands are not justified,
24:45if our demands were so bad,
24:48why Mr. CM agreed to it last year,
24:51in 2022?
24:54The Aam Aadmi Party is saying,
24:57the government is saying that we have fulfilled our demands,
25:00the demands that have not been fulfilled are from the centre.
25:03No, no, no. There is a correction.
25:06These are the demands with Punjab government.
25:09The demands with the central governments are totally different.
25:12These demands which come up
25:15for the protesting on 5th, these were the demands
25:18that were agreed to us by Mr. CM
25:21and these are the demands with the government of Punjab
25:24not with the government of India.
25:27Okay, so there is so much misinformation. I am glad that you cleared that.
25:30RP Singh, to bring you back into this conversation
25:33and what I ended on after you made your remarks.
25:36Interesting, RP Singh, because today you find yourself
25:39completely on the opposite fence on what you were in 2020.
25:42It's a tad bit more comfortable.
25:45You are sitting with the farmers this time.
25:48No, no. The issue is, we are already working on the demands.
25:51As I said, the next door, the neighbouring state,
25:54Haryana, MSP is on each and every clock.
25:57But just point to the side, my concern is still,
26:00why walk out of the meeting and half-half?
26:03Why at 8pm? You can stay for another hour or so.
26:06There is something related to 8pm.
26:09That's the bigger concern.
26:12RP Singh ji, please don't the CM like this.
26:15Sir, I am saying, why?
26:18No, no, I am not saying anything, sir.
26:21No, no, no, no.
26:24I simply said, why walk out in a half?
26:27That's the concern.
26:31Sir, don't you hold meetings after 8pm?
26:34Please, we are sitting on a national channel, don't speak like this.
26:37Okay, let's all maintain decorum.
26:40Let's all respect, let's all maintain decorum.
26:43Let's all respect the constitution in post.
26:46I simply said, why walk out of a meeting which you started?
26:49Mr. Barar, you want to come in 10 seconds and I want to move on, sir.
26:52I agree, everyone should maintain decorum.
26:55Preeti ji, there was a simple demand that we had yesterday.
26:59It was, what variety of seeds we should buy for paddy.
27:02Because last year it was, you should sow this variety of paddy.
27:05But when it came to procurement, we had a lot of problems.
27:08So we asked our honourable CM,
27:11what variety of seeds we should buy,
27:14so that at the later stage,
27:17there should be no problem in procurement.
27:20Isn't this demand justified?
27:23It is not justified.
27:27Please come up, Mr. Aluwalia, please let me know.
27:30I don't have the time, I wish I had the time,
27:33but Mr. Aluwalia, 10 seconds and I need to go into a break quickly, sir.
27:36Justify demands, which you are not...
27:39I agree with Ravneet Pradhan.
27:42Sir, allow him to answer, I'll come to you also for 10 seconds.
27:45I agree with Ravneet Pradhan ji that whether the hybrid breed
27:48or some other seed should be there,
27:51I definitely agree that the things will be clear to them
27:54and everything will be explained.
27:57But that doesn't mean that you will stop the roads, you will make a bigger protest.
28:00Okay, RP Singh, 10 seconds you get, sir.
28:03Very small point.
28:06First, I never meant anything else other than that he rushed out of the meeting.
28:09One, don't constitute anything into it.
28:12Secondly, the seeds which he was talking about,
28:15yes, the state government should ensure that whatever seed they provide,
28:18they should also ensure that they will pick up the procurement of the crop.
28:21All right, okay, I've run out of time.
28:24RP Singh ji, you have sent that hybrid breed.
28:27Okay, you know we are going to keep getting into this tutu mehmeh and this back...
28:32Okay, I'm going to let it be.
28:35I appreciate all three of you for joining us.
28:38And we'll keep a keen eye on all developments that are taking place.
28:415th March, which is tomorrow, is the call for
28:44chalo, chandigarh, when it comes down to the various kisan unions,
28:47spearheading it is the Samyukt Kisan Morcha.
28:50With that, I'm going to move on to our next segment,
28:53which is the extra point onto the point.
29:01This is a bizarre and a disconcerting story that has come to light
29:04from the state of Chhattisgarh, where there were
29:07nine women sarpanches that were
29:10elected in Chhattisgarh from various areas.
29:14What's bizarre and a huge blow
29:17when it comes down to women empowerment is
29:20that all their husbands actually
29:23took the oath, not the women sarpanches.
29:26What you see on your television screens
29:29are sarpanch patis, and I'm sure
29:32a lot of you who know village politics
29:35understand what sarpanch patis are, where the husband
29:38of the woman sarpanch acts as a proxy.
29:41Now, usually we see that
29:44in administrative purposes, he acts as a proxy.
29:47This is for the first time we've seen them even take oath.
29:50So it's not the woman who was elected as sarpanch, but the husband
29:53who's taking oath. A huge, huge
29:56embarrassment coming in for the Chhattisgarh government
29:59and a huge embarrassment for the women's movement
30:02and participation in democracy
30:05and the electoral process.
30:07Yogi Adityanath doubling down on sambhal
30:10makes big declaration
30:13in the assembly.
30:33Yogi lays claim to sambhal mosque
30:36despite the case now in court.
30:39Takes on opposition.
30:42Samajwadi party.
31:02Hindutva already shaping UP politics
31:05before 2027 elections.
31:08Top focus on To The Point this evening.
31:13Good evening, welcome to our debate 2 this evening
31:16and that's the question, the root question for our next
31:19political face-off.
31:22In this edition, I ask question 1
31:25Is Yogi Adityanath clearly dialing up
31:28Hindutva post the Lok Sabha setback?
31:31Question 2, which we've asked, Hindutva already
31:34shaping UP politics before 2027
31:37elections, but there could be a bit
31:40of a hitch in that. Can BJP actually sustain
31:43polarization pitch till 2027?
31:46You know, you can hark back to what happened in
31:492024 Lok Sabha election. The Ram Mandir
31:52happened, which peaked and then there was a lull
31:55and then the BJP didn't perform so well in Uttar Pradesh.
31:58So, 2027 is still a long way.
32:01Can the BJP sustain the
32:04momentum till then? But ultimately, can
32:07the BJP sustain the momentum till then?
32:10So, the question is, can the BJP sustain the momentum
32:13till then?
32:16Taking these questions to our political face-off
32:19this evening, joining me, Anila Singh,
32:22spokesperson UP, BJP,
32:25Dhanshan Tiwari, spokesperson Samajwadi Party.
32:28Before we go to both our panelists, I want to
32:31quickly put the premise for this debate. Both
32:34of you have been very clear about this.
32:37The question is, can the BJP sustain the momentum
32:40till then? If the answer is two minutes, it is a
32:43hard cut. We won't be able to hear you.
32:46Dhanshan Tiwari, it is very clear now.
32:49Many would suggest the Nishana is 2027
32:52elections and it seems the Samajwadi Party
32:55really doesn't have the answer to it.
32:58Yogi Adityanath, without carrying a dam, is
33:01going to tell China that whatever is ours,
33:04we will take it.
33:07Why is the land captured by China not part of
33:10the heritage that Yogi Adityanath believes
33:13belongs to India and Indians?
33:16Point number one.
33:19Point number two, in this debate,
33:22the BJP has been very clear about this.
33:25The question is, can the BJP sustain the momentum
33:28till then? If the answer is two minutes, it is a
33:31hard cut. We won't be able to hear you.
33:34Dhanshan Tiwari, it is very clear now.
33:37Why is the land captured by China not part of
33:40the heritage that Yogi Adityanath believes
33:43belongs to India and Indians?
33:46Point number one. Point number two, in the
33:49parliament session, MP after MP, across party
33:52lines, blamed, accused the UP government,
33:56of murderous conspiracy in Sambhal.
33:59Point number three, that this same government
34:02cooked up a conspiracy, saying that in Sambhal they
34:05discovered bullets made in Pakistan.
34:08I attended a debate on India today and that
34:11vanished, just like every other promise of PM
34:14Modi has vanished.
34:17Point number four, that we are seeing a carnage
34:20in the Indian stock markets. The growth story
34:24has vanished. It looks as clear as the
34:27jumlas of PM Modi. And as a result, no matter
34:30what ploy, what conspiracy, what murderous
34:33claims that you hatch, it will not return
34:36India to a growth story that can provide jobs
34:39to youth of Uttar Pradesh, that is the largest
34:42state of the country, where Yogi Adityanath
34:45has promised that by 2029, 2027, maybe
34:482129, he will make UP a $1 trillion
34:52economy. Point number six, that here is a
34:55CM who, after the Uttar Pradesh election, was
34:58battling for his own chair. There is no trust
35:01between him and the Home Minister. So all this
35:04bravado is not aimed at people. Either it is
35:07propaganda aimed at people who did not get
35:10answers in Stampede, or the bravado is aimed
35:13at Home Minister Amit Shah that Yogi Adityanath
35:16is still in charge of UP campaign.
35:19Point number seven, the fact is, despite the
35:22Places of Worship Act, you have the UP
35:25Chief Minister stating very clearly,
35:28jo hamara hai, wo hamara hoga, ya hona chahiye.
35:31And, you know, the fact is also, Anila is
35:34saying, that when a campaign peaks in
35:37politics, the peaking period is very, very
35:40important. It needs to peak at the right
35:43time. Are you doubling down on Hindutva
35:46tad bit early? Would you be able to sustain
35:49this campaign all the way till the
35:52January-February of 2027? Are you
35:55peaking too early in your campaign?
35:58My Ravaram to all, and Preeti, I am so
36:01proud of Yogi Adityanathji, not as a
36:04Chief Minister only, but as a
36:07face of Hindutva who is so bold
36:10that he can spell out what
36:13real Hindu, not halal Hindu, but real
36:16Hindu, real Sanatani wants. He is the one
36:19who can speak out. And this country really
36:22wanted leaders who can speak out, because this
36:25country was bifurcated on the lines of religion,
36:28not on the lines of secularism, on the lines
36:31of religion. If I talk about Sabhajwadi Party,
36:34Sabhajwadi Party is a small fish in big
36:37dirty pond of appeasement politics, which was
36:40done by Congress. Until date they are doing.
36:43This country was secular when Places of Worship Act
36:46was brought in 1991. Sanatanis were
36:49targeted. This country was secular when
36:52Vakf Act was empowered. Alright, secular
36:55country. This country was secular when Ministry
36:58of Minority was made,
37:01Minority Commission was made. So this
37:04country was so, so secular when we talk
37:07about that, okay, perfect. All the things,
37:10you know, the first writer is of Muslims.
37:13This country was secular when they said,
37:16okay, perfect. This country is
37:19going to get first, like minorities are going to get the first
37:22right on all the resources. So I can
37:25quote 100 examples when Sanatani Hindus were
37:28targeted, you know, places of worship, you know,
37:31they were ours. And we were waiting for
37:34independence to come so that we can claim the right.
37:37But this Congress Party and the political parties
37:40like Samajwadi Party, they stood like wall in between
37:43Sanatani Hindus and the temple.
37:46They didn't allow us. So,
37:49you very well said that the peak time
37:52in, you know, peaking something is that
37:55is a very smaller one. Are you, you said that
37:58are you going to peak just before the elections,
38:01before the elections? No, this matter is not…
38:04Okay, ma'am, hard cut. Ma'am, it's time up. I'll come back to you.
38:07One thing I'd like to just, you know, humbly request
38:10Anila Singh, you're right, that the country was
38:13partitioned on the basis of religion. But Anila Singh,
38:16as a spokesperson of a political party,
38:19I'm sure you understand and you accept that India was
38:22formed on the tenets of secularism and the Constitution
38:25says exactly that, even if you read the preamble.
38:28So, I would hope you respect that when you're on the show
38:31because we're not a Hindu Rashtra, we are a secular state.
38:34We might not want to be or people might not
38:37want to be, but we are a secular state.
38:40All I'm saying, humbly saying, ma'am, you know, we're not a Pakistan,
38:43we're not a Islamic state, we're not a
38:46Hindu Rashtra. We might have been divided on
38:49the basis of religion, but India has been built
38:52on the tenets of secularism. And I hope you accept that.
38:55I just want to move on. I want to bring Ghanshyam Tiwari back for his
38:58next two minutes and my next question, Ghanshyam Tiwari,
39:01is very simple. The fact is, if
39:04Yogi Adityanath is now doubling down on
39:07Hindutva, and that is going to be the rhetoric
39:10for the next one year, does Akhilesh, with his
39:13PDA, really have it to cut into that?
39:16Again, the answers
39:19are not in the claims and propaganda of
39:22BJP. The answers are in the day-to-day struggle
39:25of people of India. When youth
39:28day-to-day struggle with the fear that exam paper will be leaked
39:31because BJP, powered by propaganda, believes that
39:34only propaganda can win them elections, they should not deliver
39:37on anything. When the same youth
39:40after multiple leakage of exam paper eventually write an exam
39:43and the jobs are
39:46cancelled by the UP government, and while they are being
39:49promised of 2 crore jobs, their despair will define
39:52the trajectory of 2027 for BJP or Samajwadi Party.
39:55When Yogi Adityanath boldly says and stands
39:58with Brij Bhushan Sharan Singh and all of BJP stands with Brij Bhushan Sharan
40:01Singh, the daughters of Uttar Pradesh will define the trajectory of BJP.
40:04When Yogi Adityanath boldly says that he is proud to
40:07practice the politics of Thakurs, that he is a Thakur,
40:10and there is nothing wrong with standing up for one,
40:13then the PDA will define
40:16who does, who progresses more
40:19when a just, fair and constitutionally
40:22modeled government is in the state,
40:25rather than one man's propaganda.
40:28When the dust settles down and people still want to find the answer
40:31to the question that how many people died in the stampede in Kumbh,
40:34why only 10 lakh rupees compensation was
40:37given to the murder at the hands of
40:40administration in the Delhi railway station stampede,
40:43that answer will define the
40:46trajectory of 2027. I don't think
40:49that a strong chief minister will depend on propaganda.
40:52BJP has seen. He is not doubling down.
40:55Prime Minister doubled down when he started talking about all the kind of
40:58propagandist language and calling opposition
41:01a Mujra in the 2024 election. He is just
41:04continuing the same fatal
41:07approach to BJP politics that one day will
41:10destruct the party and Uttar Pradesh election
41:13will be that moment, that one day when BJP feels
41:16destructed because people have lost belief in them.
41:19Alright, okay, that's a hard cut. You know,
41:22Ghanshyam Tiwari, if I have time, I'll come back to you because it's interesting you blame
41:25Yogi Adityanath for Thakurwad and
41:28say that the PDA is going to cut through it, but Ghanshyam
41:31Tiwari, what's also interesting is maybe not in letter,
41:34but for all practical purposes, your party was also built on the
41:37tenets of MY and you know what that stands for, Muslim and Yadav.
41:40You might want to turn it into PDA right now, but will it
41:43work is the big question. I'll come back to it. I want to bring back
41:46Anila Singh for her two minutes into this.
41:49Anila Singh, you had the Ram Mandir wave
41:52early January where at least there was
41:55an assumption and most people
41:58thought that UP especially is
42:01going to be saffron in 2024
42:04Lok Sabha elections. That didn't quite happen.
42:07What happened was quite the reverse. Therefore,
42:10the question that I asked you is the Hindutva
42:13campaign peaking too early? You know, will you be able to
42:16sustain what the BJP really does get a
42:19lot of, you know, from polarization? Will you be able to
42:22sustain it till January 2027?
42:25Really, first
42:28of all, for us, if I talk about
42:31faith and you are quoting Ram Mandir
42:34here, let me tell you whether it is about Kashi, whether it is about
42:37Mathura, whether it is about Ayodhya or any of our
42:40religious places which are not being
42:43given to us and
42:46we are fighting for it, though we won the Ram Mandir
42:49battle here. For us, it is not the
42:52political centric matter. For us, it is
42:55faith. For us, it is our religion. It is the
42:58matter of our Devi and Devatas. This is our basic
43:01difference. And if I talk about Ram Mandir, like we had
43:04been fighting for it since more than 500 years.
43:07And after the demolition of Babri Masjid,
43:10you know it very well what happened in the elections.
43:13We were never ever bothered about it and we will not be bothered
43:16about it. And you said that
43:19our country has always been secular. Yes, ma'am. Our country
43:22has always been secular. That is why we welcome, you know,
43:25whether these Islamic invaders or the British invaders,
43:28whoever, or the French invaders. But the
43:31reality is, if our country was secular, then why Mrs. Gandhi
43:34after bringing the 42nd
43:37Amendment in 1976, inducted the word secular in a
43:40preamble. It was forced on us. And that is
43:43our reality. We can't just say Vande Matram.
43:46We will call ourselves secular. No, no, no.
43:49We will only have two feet. And the Muslim
43:52parliaments and the MLAs, they refused that we don't want to sing
43:55Vande Matram. When the Hindus
43:58in Kashmir are finished, then they are very
44:01secular. Mass massacre of Sikhs happens
44:04and they are very secular people. I can quote you
44:07almost 20 riots where
44:10Hindus, you know, their throats were slit.
44:13What happened at that time? Were they secular? Of course
44:16not. This is the reality, ma'am, that they
44:19keep on targeting Sanatani Hindus, though they are
44:22in majority in Bharat Varsha, but still these political
44:25parties, they are ready to say,
44:28okay, you can have halal coffee.
44:31Ma'am, that's all the time that I have for now. I'm going to give
44:3410 seconds again. I think we have one more minute to go.
44:3710 seconds again to Ghanshyam
44:40Tiwari and then I'll come back to you. Ghanshyam Tiwari,
44:43go ahead. I'll clock you. Go ahead, sir. Closing.
44:46I think to your viewers, I want to say that
44:49India is built not on hate,
44:52not on this throwing the kitchen sink of
44:55tragic events from history on the viewers and expecting them to believe
44:58in the BJP propaganda, but on the idea that
45:01everyone has to progress and a government that cannot deliver that
45:04will use propaganda to hide itself. Okay.
45:072027, BJP will be exposed
45:10because people will have lost faith in this propaganda.
45:13Anila Singh, the same amount of time. Go ahead.
45:16Samajwadi Party's leader Abu Azmi says Aurangzeb
45:19was a good man. We very well know that Aurangzeb was a good man.
45:22And if I talk about the Sahibzadas,
45:25sons of Guru Gobind Singh, Fateh Singh ji and Zoravar
45:28Singh ji, you know, his governor,
45:31Vizir Khan, he killed those young kids and the
45:34Children's Day is celebrated in the name of Jawaharlal
45:37Nehru. Thanks to Narendra Modi ji,
45:40we celebrate that day in December now.
45:43The reality of this political party is that
45:46I'm going to end it here. The only thing, because you said that I
45:49said that India has always been secular. Yes, India has always been secular.
45:52But that's not what I was saying, Anila Singh. I was saying that India has been
45:55built on the tenets of secularism. And I'll just quote
45:58the constitution, the preamble to you. It declares
46:01India to be a sovereign, socialist, secular, democratic
46:04republic. This is what I was saying. We leave it for
46:07our viewers to decide on where they stand on it. I appreciate both of you for joining us
46:10with it. Thank you for watching.