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00:00on our agenda to have that discussion so there's no better way to get it out there and to have that
00:06discussion other than to have the discussion so with me to my right always a pleasure joelle
00:11julian johann seodk and today she's not a man hi guys certainly not our very own janine edwards
00:21radio personality thank you so much for sitting in today janine sure replacing you know way better
00:27to look at them please you know we'll keep it our secret here um so janine is joining us of course
00:36for because of the nature of the topic that we're about to discuss to give that that you know that
00:42opinion that again we're not we are a few men we're not talking to all men we are few men talking to
00:49all men right or did i get that right now it's perfect a few men a few men talking to all men
00:54i think i think it we're not talking on behalf of all men but we are a few men talking to all men
01:00and women to everyone who would listen to um these episodes because what we want to do is we want to
01:06get resolved we want we want change and change in a positive light and every topic every episode that
01:13we have a discussion on what you would find would overlap a lot of times the conversations overlap so
01:19one week we might be talking about mansplaining another week we might be talking about double
01:24standards or domestic violence you'd find that even though we are very specific on days like today
01:30talking about domestic violence um there's there's a lot of cross-pollination right um so once again
01:36janine thank you so much for being here it's not it's certainly not an easy topic to discuss but we
01:41need to talk the things that need to be talked um so just just just really really quickly um i like to
01:47open with always you know giving the definition that we find for domestic violence and in this
01:53case domestic violence also known as intimate partner violence is a pattern of behavior where
01:58one person in a domestic relationship uses physical sexual emotional or psychological abuse
02:05to control and manipulate their partner this can occur between spouses or partners as well as between
02:12family members or people who live together domestic violence can take many different forms including
02:18physical abuse such as hitting punching or choking sexual abuse such as forced sex or unwanted sexual
02:24contact emotional abuse such as name calling put downs and constant criticism and psychological abuse such
02:32as controlling behavior isolation from friends and family and threats of harm a lot in there a lot in there and a lot of
02:42misconceptions a lot of misconceptions as to what's this because notice we start off by saying domestic violence
02:48intimate partners there's nothing about male on female female on female male on male right or even the fact that it doesn't
02:56always have to be where it's intimate relations apparently can be where if your brother's living with you
03:00and he's going through you know you're you're abusing him all that is for a form of domestic violence
03:05um and so i i want to use the the occasion as well we have our other um episode that comes out um that that
03:16that we'll be seeing soon call a woman's worth and they were there were some really really key topics that
03:22they brought up or or subject matters okay they brought up that really wowed me as to how deep domestic violence goes
03:29mm-hmm so i know you will always depend on our subject matter expert here johan say our behavioral
03:35consultant to to take away this one firstly i would like to simplify the definition a little bit right
03:43domestic violence so let's break down domestic domestic means within the home within the house and
03:48violence mean intent to hurt so is the intent to hurt within within the home or the house so it could be
03:56physical because it could intend to hurt someone physically you could intend to hurt someone
04:01psychologically emotionally financially etc but the intent to hurt for me is important part because
04:09when speaking to someone even the the way you speak to them you could have the intent to hurt
04:16i gave an example once i think it was a couple and the husband said something and she picked up a piece
04:23of paper and she pelted at him of course a piece of paper wouldn't do anything but she said she she
04:30and she imagined in her mind the piece of paper going through his head so the intent was there yeah
04:37now of course it might be classified as violence because he wasn't actually hurt but even understanding
04:43where the seed of it comes from is an action intent to hurt what do you think joel okay yeah well
04:51um intimate partner violence you know i actually brought this book here vs naipa all the mystic
04:57message though everybody know vs naipa obviously right um this is first novel and there's something
05:02i read in it and it just kind of showed me um like sometimes what we we kind of take for granted
05:09in general so i just read a little bit right so these stories about a protagonist a guy named ganesh right
05:16so ganesh not get married he didn't get married to a woman named leela so you know leela continued
05:21to cry and ganesh loosened his leather belt and beat her she cried out oh god oh god he go kill me
05:26to they self it was their first meeting a formal affair done without anger on ganesh's part or
05:32resentment on leela's and although it formed no part of the marriage ceremony itself it meant it meant much
05:39to both of them it meant that they had grown up and become independent ganesh had become a man
05:45leela her wife was privileged as any other big woman now she too would have tears to tell of her
05:50husband's beatings and when she went home she would be able to look sad and sudden as every woman should
05:57and i was reading that and i was saying yeah so this is it it's what what i what my takeaway from it
06:04was is that unfortunately you have situations where couples may believe that this sort of violence
06:11um a man beating his woman or or vice versa is like a rite of passage or he became a man to something
06:20to cement the relationship and the unfortunate thing is that i believe that there are lots of
06:26relationships that that people have whether it be man woman otherwise um where there's this level of
06:33violence that takes place and it is happening because you for yourself you either see it when
06:40you're growing up or you believe that this is something that you know we have heard it before
06:45if you don't beat me you don't love me that kind of thing yeah and i just like this topic is not a
06:53topic that i believe needs to be taken lightly um because i'm hoping that even in our conversations
07:02here and i'm trying to scratchy civic or get into the topic of domestic violence you might help somebody
07:08realize that you might could want better for yourself kind of thing um so i say i i believe that
07:16relationships um it's not easy because it's easy for us as individuals when you hear somebody has been a victim of
07:24domestic violence it's easy for us at the end of the day to say he coulda walk away she coulda walk away
07:30yeah that easy to see yeah but you don't know what what everything is that tied in tied into it you
07:37know what it means what it means and what it may take to get out of that relationship you know so
07:43janine what's your take on that you don't meet me to all of me um well i don't know i've been
07:48a female in this country right now in 2023 it's a very scary thing to be personally and um i have
07:56had experiences with people that i love around me um going through domestic violence and um what i can
08:05say is that people that find themselves men and women that find themselves in this situation is usually
08:11they didn't think it would have been like that and then what happens is the behavior
08:19um it continues so it might start off as a cough one day and it will escalate and over time
08:28you wouldn't really remember how life was before that so as some people say it's easy to leave it's
08:34not easy to leave it's not i've i've seen it's firsthand and it's not easy to leave
08:40the research says a person would leave seven times before they actually leave so for the women
08:47that go through it in our society when we point fingers and we say you know her eye blue or you
08:54see the marks on her neck or whatever the case is everybody going through it and people do realize you
08:59know it became toxic and they do realize oh well i hope it would i get better and i hope things i hope
09:07he would have stopped treating myself hope she would have stopped taking advantage of me like that
09:11and people live in hope so it takes a while for them to realize that that hope that feeling or
09:20that respect that you got way way way at the beginning maybe in the courting stage that hope for that
09:28behavior to come back is probably not going to return because you've allowed this respect to come in
09:33to to to the relationship and to the bond so it affects us and i think it starts from young as
09:41one as you said if you see somebody beating your mom if you see a dad beating on your mom where your
09:47mom break up with your husband and she got an ex-boyfriend and that next boyfriend is still beating on
09:52your mom she broke up with that guy and you got her next boyfriend so you've seen now three different
09:57men beat your mom you may you may grow up and be like i would never hit a woman because i've seen
10:04what men did to my woman to my mom but you may grow up to think that it is okay because i've seen so many
10:10men do this to my mom it must be okay and this is how you really um control the other person and i think
10:19sometimes that's it you know they want to control um i've heard very scary stories i've seen girls
10:27that have been in the hospital because they literally lost their eye and have broken arms you know women
10:34that were pregnant and got beaten with their kids inside the stomach you know from the father of the
10:40child you know i've heard and seen some very horrific things in in our country and i'm sure throughout the
10:46world so where does it start where does it end there's a good conversation to have you know but
10:53we need to watch how we raise our men you know so so one of the things you know as we talk a part of
10:59manhood janine um and again you know thank you for being here and being open you know you know i know you
11:05as a normally very bubbly person and clearly this topic is a heavy one um and it touches all of us um
11:11one of the things that we we intend to do here is continue to have that conversation and as i mentioned at
11:16the start the topic in domestic violence will always come factor in to some of the other
11:21topics that we discuss for example toxic masculinity being one of those um and and the question is also
11:27perception so in in one case someone might say you don't be made all of me that's that's an upbringing
11:33for what that that woman perceives as love you know so it you know we look at in many ways
11:40how somebody is brought up what they understand as you just mentioned if they see it on a continuous
11:44basis but there's so there's so many other areas of domestic violence that for example women living
11:51in fear we hear um and these are just some of the things that i want to discuss here today one in
11:55three women in trinidad and tobago um go through domestic violence however what we also see is the
12:01male suicide rate is higher than the female female rate and a lot of that is sometimes in the cases of
12:08men in domestic um in situations of domestic violence and being victims and have no recourse
12:15and and that doesn't just mean the abuse of physical abuse but in relationships where it's
12:20take because of the nature of the system that it's taken advantage of and being accused of domestic violence
12:27you know um i can see you know in in a situation my in my in my earlier years of a situation of being accused of of of levels of domestic violence and
12:39you know was taken aghast by it like you know what are we speaking about and then you start to realize there are levels where
12:45to one person it's it's accepted depends on the relationship with that particular person and in
12:51another case when you feel a certain way it's toxic masculinity right and all these other things um
12:57start to stem from it and the accusation once it's out there is immediate there's it's immediate in terms
13:03of people lose family they lose friends they lose in terms of cases jobs they might be arrested
13:09and then you realize that you know what what's happening here you know because this immediately
13:15it's seen as the man is the the the um perpetrator um on an instant case so just by the very basis of
13:23um as i said we heard in a woman's worth in in a conversation they were having based on domestic
13:29violence initially this this term gender-based violence was seen as initially it's women being abused right
13:35but now it's being looked at in on a holistic basis of of it's it's people being abused and as we saw in
13:42the definition i read earlier about the various levels physical being one of the main ones that we
13:47speak about but there's emotional and there's all these other financial there's all these other forms of
13:53abuse um let me ask you let me ask both you and um you answer a question so we know that gender-based
14:00violence is not just the the woman who is being abused but you as a man if you're in a relationship
14:07and your partner is physically abusing you would you feel secure enough to go on a police station to
14:12report that no you're taking that as a man well now in 20 23 years you will yeah maybe a few years ago
14:21no right right but now because of all the education right right and um i even had the the privilege of um
14:28doing some work with the ttps and they have a lot of workshops for policemen police women police in
14:35general so that's the physical you're talking about yeah for physical abuse so as a male being
14:41physically abused yes i would into 20 23. emotional which is which is the bigger one for men to be honest
14:49i'm not certain the law for emotional abuse right how the law treated emotional abuse and that's
14:54something we could do some research on right because emotional abuse also comes into play dynamics
15:02right and how i grew up like saying i grew up soft when somebody tell me something i may take it as
15:08emotional abuse but if i grew up hard wherever she's saying it don't really matter to me right so
15:15even the education part of it that i you know and especially like on the local station and stuff if we
15:20could have those those scenarios like you know these skits and stuff where people see you know the
15:26difference that i using local stations too but we could have on youtube we could have you know as many
15:31things as possible so we could have the education part of it because that emotional abuse part so so
15:36touchy but if we go back with the definition i gave before intent to hurt so if you say something
15:43with the intent to hurt if you do something and try to manipulate a situation with the intent to hurt that's
15:48how you know so if you're a victim if you feel hurt i'm not saying it automatically is abuse but if
15:54you feel hurt then you should start questioning well why the person do it why why did he do that or even
15:59for yourself do the self-introspection and if it's consistent that i feel hurt or the person is attempting
16:05to hurt me or intent is to hurt me then you could go in the realms of of emotional abuse so if the intent
16:12isn't there it's not violence so for example if for the case of you come home you come home tight and
16:21for whatever reason he has an altercation and it doesn't have to be in physical blows sometimes
16:27i don't know in in in whatever um scenario the person's hurt be it emotionally financially you're
16:33going to take her money or take his money whatever the case may be there's no there's no
16:37um conscious intent at that particular point if there's a pattern it's one thing but that particular
16:43point and at that at that stage you personally say is i going to report you before report in a
16:51in a couple because you know we are council culture on all forums it's like right a conversation should
16:56be had right i know in especially like if you go through family court they'll always get put you
17:02on to a mediator first and before you reach litigation there's mediation to to really go
17:07through to realize okay what was this person intent why why this occurred versus just going straight to
17:13now if it's physical that's different you have we have proof of that that goes straight to to the law
17:18but in terms of emotional there should be some sort of mediation to properly understand the dynamics of
17:24things before going as far as accusing somebody of abuse either way so janine in a relationship you know you
17:31is there any is there any scenario where you ex you you will accept any form of abuse or that you
17:40mightn't see it as abuse at that particular point but like you know what this person had a bad day or
17:43is a one-off it's a moment i not see it as a red flag is there any be it in the past or not necessarily
17:50asking you know your personal something has happened in perspective but well yeah i mean
17:56it uh things will start off as you say i actually have a program we're going to do it now red flags
18:02on on on slam there but um things will usually start off like that but the red flags are there i think
18:09we just kind of put a little blindfold on and and make an excuse here or there but the the signs are always
18:17there i think we are just um in love with being in love most of the time and in love with that fantasy
18:25that maybe you're not um accepting of the reality which is that this is maybe a very dangerous
18:31situation to get yourself involved in um yes i've experienced um some interesting relationships
18:41and then you learn you learn what you should and should not accept and what is love and i think
18:48maybe what we could teach our children in school in primary schools and stuff maybe what we could
18:55do we could teach our kids to love themselves and what loving yourself means and then that way we even
19:02if you had issues with your dad even if you had issues with your mom and you never met your mom you
19:06never met your dad or they used to beat you whatever the case is at least you understand what to love
19:11yourself means so that you know you could love you before you love somebody else and when you look to
19:16love somebody then you'd know hey but that is respectful that hurts in me that couldn't be love
19:22you know so i think we have a long way to go but do you think that women women that you may hear in
19:29conversations are really living in constant fear or is it a is it a you know at that point where i do know
19:36women that have lived in fair i do know women that have not gone to work have taken many days and weeks
19:42off and um stop liming with friends and stop liming with family i do know women that do live in the
19:49fair i do know the financial part of stealing um bank cards and jewelry and stealing stuff so you don't
19:58have your thing stealing your phone so you can't make a call so i do and i have seen for myself
20:05these things and they exist and our family members know they exist if you that's the thing in our
20:13country we gotta it's a cycle man because you know that that person is abusive you know your
20:20brethren is abusive girl you know that it is here it's just not gonna say anything you you know it
20:26as men we know in our in our in our cliques who who is doing what i went to a line the other day and
20:34i saw a lady and she had a black eye she has three kids for the guy you know but i saw the black eye
20:41i've never asked yeah why is that black eye why is that black eye yeah i mean it's really hard to
20:48fall and hit yourself in your eye it's really hard to walk into a door and hit your eye for the sake of
20:53your forehead your cheek but to say i i come from a nice punch to the to the head right so um but as i said
21:01looking at her and understanding that this is her situation she's been there for 20 something
21:08years she's bringing up two beautiful girls and a young man and they're going to be seeing this
21:13they're going to replicate this because they're going to think that is normal because she's taking
21:18alexa normal i know but what about an abusive relationship so in terms of both parties because
21:24i've seen it toxic relationship both are physical so he hit and lash she belt and lash and sometimes
21:30she belt and had a lash or or or doing things worse than yeah demand right is is is that is that would
21:39that fall under domestic violence and in that case both parties have to report one another one another
21:44well i don't know about the reports i'm saying in trinidad because
21:47well because i would have had some experience with it it is lovely to make a report right it's
21:55lovely but exactly but uh to me a female making a report take your time because the step is not just to
22:05make the report the step is to leave the situation so making a report is not gonna make the situation
22:12and you have to pick up yourself you may have to change your address you may have to save your
22:19money you may have to go by a family or friend you might have to change your job there's so many
22:24things to me before you even make that report that report is just to make sure anything happening police
22:30could be on your side but you have you have to get yourself out of that situation because
22:36making a report and as i said most of the time you make the report you're gonna go right back
22:41to the situation yourself because you might you don't understand yet how it is to function without
22:48this treatment you don't understand what it is to be treated nice somebody buy you a drink and you might
22:53ways that person's the nicest person because you're not even accustomed to somebody being nice to you
22:58so it takes a mental it takes a lot of mental strength to get out of a domestic relationship and i think
23:07what we need we need more centers that assist a transitioning person somebody that is i'm thinking
23:14about it i want to leave you know i want better for my children i know but if i leave him or if i leave
23:19her how are we going to maintain them how i go and feed them i can't leave how i go leave them talking
23:25about i don't need that i go take the licks because i need it sounds easy it sounds easier because every time
23:30every time you you we unfortunately read these incidents and like the newspaper the quickest thing
23:36people say is she should have left but as you're saying that easier said than none because it's not
23:42easy all the time you have this partner you're living in a house with a man you're living in a house with a
23:48a woman yeah two grown-ass children it could be your house too like you know how do you leave how do
23:57how do i leave and do i leave but you can't leave by yourself yeah you're leaving your children exactly
24:02and your family you still know you know what i mean that is all part of it you gotta take that
24:07if they're coming from an old culture like you know you still have to work and he's still nowhere
24:11working she's still nowhere exactly so she comes what what i've seen worked and and this has maybe in the
24:17last maybe 10 years right um the police unit now has the gender-based units right now victim support
24:26and have organizations like families in action rape crisis etc so they actually work together
24:32because they are safe houses in trinidad of course anonymous and so going to organizations like those
24:38will give you the kind of support so they would ask those questions you know well are you working
24:44you know can you should you go back home right now can you sometimes i've seen even the same
24:49evening of the report that they actually take the woman to save houses so i'm not saying it's perfect
24:54right but at least i i see now there are a lot more resources for women and not just a straight
25:00report and you know they go through the holes um it's biopsychosocial aspect of of that woman's
25:07situation do you have children how many children sometimes they won't pick up the children immediately
25:11depending on what it is so there are a lot more options now again it's not perfect but but at
25:16what stage though at what stage at what stage is it is it considered domestic violence for either
25:23party for the male or the female or the female if it's female and female male and male right so you
25:27remember i asked you all a question if you would report it i was in a situation where i was in a
25:33relationship with a beautiful young lady um this year so obviously i'm a current partner yeah and
25:41she's smaller than me but i but she grew up in a situation where she saw domestic abuse being the
25:49order of the day now like you know both parties fighting like that's what she knew you grew up in a
25:54situation of of no calm no ease and she put a tinting behind me putting lash doing all kind of different
26:05things but i never saw myself or believed i was a victim i still don't believe i'm a victim you know
26:12and so i i felt i would have been a victim if i were to go to a police station and say well boy
26:19why this woman tripping off you know because the moment i raised my hand to lash the moment i raised
26:26my hand does it i become i because as i say i am bigger than the person um smally smally and stuff
26:33like that and that situation that relationship was for a while and as you know saying sometimes your
26:40partners know i remember we was in our we was in a house we were in a house party sorry and
26:45something had playoff in the house party and she pelting lash upstairs at my partners hearing this
26:51the commotion so they obviously know what is going on and they probably in their mind saying whoever
26:59but that is okay yeah and and the thing is like honestly it happened as i never felt as a victim i
27:06still don't believe i'm a victim you know but i felt you had to come to the i had to come to the
27:12realization and the moment where i say well we could cuss but effort now like at this point in
27:18time you take what you need to take or whatever you need to do what you have to do but that's the
27:23end of the road for me now that's the end of the road and it took a while i ain't lying to tell you
27:28it took a while because obviously if you're you know if if you're together with somebody i believe
27:32you wouldn't be with somebody if you don't love them okay well joel yeah not to start a therapy session
27:38right yeah but you're going to anyway now i'm taking it is why estate after the she
27:43pelled the first few things after she pelled the first few last why estate because janine was saying
27:48earlier that level of hope you hope that this is just a one-off thing you hope that this person
27:55like this is not what i know i because okay so i'm not the biggest person right so when i
28:02growing up in school and stuff like that i know to talk so i know to words to make so with intent to
28:10hurt so i would say something to hurt right so i'm not a physical physical person so i start to wonder
28:16if is did i say something tricks i do one that that that like was it my fault that you're always looking
28:23at if you are the reason why this thing happened kind of thing so that goes with janine's point before
28:28i'll stay like five months you're saying that we need to teach children in primary school self-love
28:38and if we again it can't be perfect i don't know no perfect self-love program right but teaching
28:45giving them more awareness of self-love so when they reach that stage the red flags would be immediate
28:50immediate immediate so if one lash now you could rationalize it and say maybe the person grew up in a
28:56certain way but that doesn't mean you accepted it and self-love i could even for myself i really
29:01learned self of maybe about seven eight years ago really what that is you know so and and i've seen
29:08people accept things i have accepted things that i really realized i don't love myself and it's only
29:13after sometimes even here even hearing other people's story i realize wait now i was taking that
29:19you know and where it is physically emotional et cetera et cetera but i and even something that
29:25well i dodged the thing she pelt i dodged it so it's not violence but that's still not acceptable
29:32so i realize that you know um janine i know you have to run in a in a bit um this is a conversation that
29:38is not a one-stop shop you know another one size fits all this is something that we'll certainly
29:43be speaking about on several different bases because as i mentioned to you joelle i was a i would say it
29:49there was a point that i was accused of it right you know and you know in retrospect and looking
29:54back at it you you kind of ask yourself what what what did i do like you know in terms of because it
29:59was enough but the point of trying to make is even though you can look and you can say okay all the
30:04physical things that you talk about wasn't there the fact is as a result immediacy of losing people
30:11that you love no one asked the question hey was this person in a in a state of of of is there
30:18something is there other reasons why why i lived with these people did i see any signs you know
30:25was there anything at all but the moment it is said accusation and you and everyone at that point
30:31sort of locks you off and you become like i said you know painted as as an abuser
30:37and these things and i can tell you it's a very very very painful place to be especially when you know
30:43that's not you and especially when and the cases do you now open up and sort of expose the truth or
30:52do you just you know move on and learn from it and do things like we're doing now and having
30:57conversations and reaching out to other people who may be going through certain things but again as i
31:01said there's so many so many things that we want to speak about with regards to the topic but while we
31:05have janine here for just a bit i just wanted to bring up in a woman's worth one of the things that
31:11was brought up with regards to domestic violence we talk about triggers and a woman dresses a certain
31:20way and you know that's always a topic you know they go out on a date they go home um she they they
31:27consent they the act takes place while the act is taking place with two consenting adults the woman says
31:35stop the fella continues oh why didn't he stop this is what we had to discuss you in the heat of
31:45the moment at the start of what what is it what is the difference between a minute and continuing on
31:52in the height of the moment and the fella is then charged with either abuse or now rape but bubu he
32:00he was told to stop something could have be hurting something could have be pulling
32:05she could have catch cramp but she asked you understand the girl just said stop he's not for
32:10two minutes and if you couldn't hear that i don't know i mean english really easy to communicate stop
32:16i think stop everybody understands that right i think for the most part when you say no is no but
32:21i'm talking about those scenarios where the fella is now charged well another situation right now
32:31where um friends lyman next morning friend rape friend what's crazy right anyway that's the situation now
32:45um but in our country um they changed their mind in terms of or they just would actually a rape
32:51actually took place because there's a different well women no no we now we don't know this is where
32:55i'm getting to so when we go to to when when police get involved police in our country are like well rape
33:01is the hardest thing to prove in in our country because it's between as you said two adults one person
33:09could easily say but she wanted it and the other person could say but i never everybody has
33:14something to say so how do you prove this even fluids even going to get a test done or whatever
33:21just proves that it happened it doesn't prove that her story or his story is true um but in
33:28your situation when somebody does does speak out and say hey stop whether they changed their mind
33:36last minute they had a bad flashback they had an experience they were in pain they catch a cramp if
33:41they said to stop i believe the right thing to do would be to stop you know at least to figure out
33:47what's going on because tim yes anything other than that yes you have given consent to boogie woogie
33:52and have a dance but if i tell him a heel looking like it going on break i need to stop dance right now
33:58and you continue dancing with money dance from a heel break you'll be hurting me on the dance floor
34:03i might still be able to dance with you know my foot brush up my foot so stop means stop no means no
34:13in our country i do appreciate that the ttps and they the whole body they have um tweaked it a little
34:21bit so we do have a sex offenders list in trinidad and tobago i believe we have 16 or 17 people listed
34:27on the sex offenders list i had an interview on slam um to find out more about it right so in our country
34:33for you to be on the list you have to um be arrested be convicted save the time and then when
34:40you are now released back into society that's when you are included on the said list so not just a
34:46charge not just not a charge no you actually have to have to serve your time yeah you have to save
34:50your time and now when you back out and released into society now you are part of this list yeah
34:56because i thought well we have offenders what if you live in down the road no you have to serve the
35:02time and go through the whole thing so i do come on ctps and um you mentioned thing um something
35:08earlier that ringed on my mind family planning association of trinidad they offer free counseling
35:14yay they offer free counseling to anybody that might be going through something it doesn't matter
35:19and if you feel like um well it's trinidad i do i don't trust them honey i'm part of fba and i've
35:26been part of fba for a very long time and my counselor not even from here right so the counselors
35:32are not most of the time they're not even from trinidad and tobago you know my council's from
35:36jamaica so um i think uh give it a try give it a shot and have the conversations so janine this is
35:43um a shorter one than normal but a very a very um no no we really we appreciate you taking the time and
35:50and i'll just take any time but but to sit down on the table you know on a on a predominantly male
35:55talk show where we're just sort of geared to talk to our males and and invoke other opinion you know
36:01thoughts and opinions um and and you know presence yourself and talk about it you know i commend you
36:08hats off and to give your opinion of course is is well well well taken so what i would ask is just in
36:13our close um as we speak you know we're going to continue talking about this topic blaze is going to join
36:19us once again we have you know nile and ken simmons as well and a couple other people you know that
36:23would continue to join um in these conversations as we hope to reach men and to just you know
36:29regardless of what the excuses backgrounds etc are we we all agree we want it to stop that's the
36:36bottom line it must stop right whether we could see the triggers who fault it is it needs to stop
36:41that's what we can agree on what's your takeaway from today uh i think aside from it needing to stop
36:48we need to show our children a better example if we want to have a better future we need to
36:55don't think it's okay don't think that um they don't know don't think that they're not
36:59old enough to observe they are they are listening they are aware um i think if if it is you just had
37:07a child and you're in a bad relationship and you're seeing again toxic do stay for the child
37:12don't do yourself that don't do the child that you know um i am i am a victim i am i am someone yeah
37:20my parents they stay together because of me you know i appreciate it i do but all i could have split
37:26up and was no worries because you know they you know they weren't the happiest so um don't sacrifice
37:34your happiness and your joy for the child try and find the joy in yourself so you could give your child
37:40that joy and that love and um yeah parents are really and fathers oh fathers we need you so much
37:47you know i know and ladies he's up on the child father he might have an ex-woman a small thing we
37:53could do at this point but your child needs a father and do not do not be selfish and do not keep your
38:00children from their fathers it is very important especially little girls you might think it's just
38:06the boys need their dads alone but little girls need their fathers just as important and fathers
38:12treat your children right men out there carry your daughters out show your daughters how you want a
38:18man to treat um her same same thing fellas teach you fellas how to be men and how to care for a woman
38:27how to care for you know monthlies come this how we just do it as a man this how we just operate when
38:33the monthly is here because these are things we're going to have to function with from now till you
38:37know the end of time so i i'm always hopeful it's not like this might be a toxic relationship with
38:45for the daughter and sabago and me but i'm always hopeful i'm always hopeful that we are going to get
38:51there one day you know there are there are young people and young women and young men listening and
38:57hopefully it falls in somebody's garden and they get up and they act hopefully this is the seventh time
39:02that he or she leaves and this will be the last time that they have to go through that family members
39:08that are going through the situation where he has left or she has left four times already
39:14it's okay because the journey now starts you know what i mean after they've left you have a lot of
39:20healing to do so be there for somebody you don't know what people going through yeah
39:26sure um well i when we had our first conversation about the manhood podcast the conversation was i
39:35believe that every conversation if you can at least touch one person and help them be able to
39:43navigate through this will so i'm hoping in this episode because i believe this topic is a serious
39:49topic one that we have to we only scratchy surface but my hope is that somebody who is possibly in a
39:57relationship that may not be the best relationship for them um will take this opportunity to you know
40:03look at the relationship and make a decision that will benefit them in the future um whether it be a
40:10man or a woman if you are the person who is the aggressor or the person who is making the relationship
40:18toxic look within yourself too now because as as burjanine and your auntie would have said you know
40:24that self-love you know looking at yourself and deciding you want better for yourself for the future
40:30and that um the good thing about my situation i would have spoken about is that we never had a a tie
40:38as in you know there's nothing holding us together so i didn't have to when i was able to walk away
40:42from that relationship i was able to close the door and i was done there are people who may be in
40:47relationships that may not have such a clean cut um my advice is to seek advice you would have and
40:56janine would have both mentioned there are there are avenues for persons to be able to get out of
41:02toxic um or relationships that are violent seek the best option reach out to persons who can help and
41:09you know that is my hope my hope is that anyone that is in a situation that they may not be the right
41:15place for them you know find the best way out as janine said we live in hope i am a man believe in hope
41:23which is probably what would have kept me there longer than i needed to be because i believe in
41:27second chances and that sometimes we even need to give ourselves a second chance there yeah um my wife
41:33always says that you know there are no bad people but sometimes good people do bad things right you
41:38know i honestly don't believe there are bad people in this way i believe that sometimes you do you do
41:43shitty things and you always once there's life once you see a new day there's opportunity for you to be better
41:49all right my takeaway is one i am grateful for even this yeah right first manhood because it's a
42:00place for mature men having mature conversations we're not fighting we're not we're not backing
42:05i'm not cursing anything and then to have the balance today with virginine in terms of here and
42:10the female's perspective and it's not the battle of the sexes it is the the collaboration the mature
42:16conversations between and i think this is a real hopeful hopeful thing that should continue and
42:23we're not we shouldn't hope it continue we should make efforts and and robert i'm i'm glad that you
42:29made the initiative also to make something like this happen and jean i know your time is limited but
42:34thank you for coming and for for anyone watching seek any any help we mentioned family planning families in
42:42action gender-based unit in the police victim support rape crisis actually just call call
42:49somebody right call some organization and even if they may not be the people to handle it they could
42:55put you onto it and thank you everyone for the opportunity for us all being here and one things i
43:00want to touch on just in closing is is the fact that historically people would say you go to a police
43:05station you go to different areas and you can't report it or in certain cases the officers at that point
43:11they take a stance and you're dismissed right speaking to um superintendent allen and again
43:16listening to this show the a woman's worth they now have an online process so you no longer need
43:21to go to a police station you can actually go online and and you know put that case there so you don't
43:27have to reach number seven you can start the process so there is awareness there is that guidance so
43:32you're not waiting to say okay well i made the report so i'm there that should something worse happen
43:36because you can have a um you know a double like a double homicide or suicide you know the person
43:41i'm killing themselves afterwards and you're still as you know you're still a victim to that so you
43:46might get the police might get a chance to intervene so what they do is you know in that report the report
43:51is then made but then you have the advice all along to say hey look look for these signs look for these
43:56red flags but so one of my takeaways is that that um except that you read from the book simply to say
44:03doing that is not being a man we're here to say that that's not what a man is that might be what you
44:10have learned by upbringing that might be what your peers have taught you that might be more movies have
44:15taught you or triggers we blame triggers we blame a lot of things and it's that it's just that it's a blame
44:22it's just not right it just needs to be stopped for males for females as i read from the start
44:28domestic violence is as you put it domestic abuse or violence in a home or violence in a dwelling
44:38it's just wrong there's no there's no excuse around it whatever level it is
44:44there may be instances as you said where good men or good women act out but the fact is the
44:50underlying the underlying reason needs to be addressed and it's not a case of it's a it happened
44:57and it's a one-stop shop and it can't be reversed because there are situations something happens and
45:02you read you go for counseling you have a conversation you realize you know this is leading me to do this
45:08and it stops i don't i don't think it's it's a it's um a case where you know the first time something
45:15happens it's that's it and it's a red flag as some people you know may use the term but with all that
45:21being said it's a conversation we've just scratched the surface as joelle mentioned it's something that
45:25we'll be talking about over and over and over but the message to leave you with today is male or female
45:32it needs to stop manhood brought to you by jameson natural sources since 1922 and racetrack