Should we fight for our romantic relationship?
With Shane Ramjit
With Shane Ramjit
Category
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TVTranscript
00:00:00Manhood, brought to you in part by Reboot Sports Drink.
00:00:09Welcome to Manhood. Today's topic is, as a man, should we fight for a romantic relationship?
00:00:17My name is Yohansi Iodike and I'm a behavior change specialist.
00:00:22To my left, I have Robert Dumas, media personality and public figure.
00:00:26To my right, I have Shane Ramjet, the Caricom head. I'm using head for Heineken.
00:00:33Sure.
00:00:34And I have Niall McNeish, creative artist.
00:00:39And we are a few men, not necessarily talking on behalf of all men, but we are a few men speaking to all men and women who want to listen also.
00:00:48All right. So should men fight? Should we men fight for a romantic relationship?
00:00:55Interesting topic.
00:00:57Very interesting one and very apt in so many ways.
00:01:01And the question, you want to stress on the, should we as men or should a man fight for a romantic relationship?
00:01:11And the reason why I want to stress on the man is because that definition and what women also think of that man, should you fight?
00:01:19Does it make you less of a man by doing so is what we want to talk about as well.
00:01:26Does it make any sense, first and foremost, but if you decide to, as how are you then looked at, not by your peers or not by other men, because that's not what's important.
00:01:36They're not lying in the bed with you or sitting on the counter or however they decide to get jiggy.
00:01:41Right. We're talking about how does that woman or other women then think of you?
00:01:48And also, if you do get back with that person, if you fight and you win that fight, in this case, you might win the battle.
00:01:55But do you lose the war in the end? How do they then, how is your life after that?
00:02:00Well, let me premise first before we go on. Let's define when it's a fight for a relationship.
00:02:06What exactly mean by fight? Because let's just say if you're making efforts to do, let's say you had a deficit in the relationship and you're making efforts.
00:02:16So let's just say, I just give an example. You wasn't doing date night every week or every month.
00:02:21So you make the effort now going to do date night. Right. Is that what we call in fight?
00:02:26Or are we calling maybe more like begging? Because if now, if now the person...
00:02:34I want to premise. So your points are really good based on the interpretation of how I brought up the subject. Right.
00:02:42But what we're saying is, is when we say fight, there are many different areas I'd like us to talk about here today.
00:02:51But the key one is, when we say fight, it's done. And you're now fighting to...
00:02:58Okay. So the relationship ends.
00:02:59It ends. It's over.
00:03:01It has ended.
00:03:02It has ended, whether it be marriage, a relationship, a situationship, you know, whatever the case may be.
00:03:10It could even be friends that, beep, whatever the case may be.
00:03:14Whatever you want to fight for. How is it then interpreted by your partner at that point?
00:03:22And do you want to do it? And what is the premise in that case?
00:03:27So if you're in the relationship and things are going a bit rocky and you realize that, you know, you might get the headache and you're feeling sleepy and all these other things very often.
00:03:35When you say fight, you're quite right to say, what do you now do? Do you need to step up date night? Do you maybe need couples counseling, laugh more, figure out a need to listen more?
00:03:49All of these things, because that's which we can't talk about. That's how you maintain the relationship or spice it up or keep the relationship.
00:03:57I'm speaking more from always best to give an anecdote. A friend of mine recently, his partner told him she loves somebody else.
00:04:11Right.
00:04:11Wow.
00:04:11Right. Love somebody else.
00:04:13Crushing.
00:04:15Very crushing.
00:04:16That's crushing.
00:04:18Buddy, that's crushing on so many levels.
00:04:20And we can talk about ego in a negative way, but it is what it is.
00:04:25You can tell somebody, you know, how they behave, but if you're a man, that's innate. If you're a woman, there's certain things that are innate to you. So ego and that we speak about so many things as it pertains to your ego, but it is what it is.
00:04:42But kudos to that. Kudos to the partner who actually admitted that because I know that's a real difficult thing.
00:04:47We're going to talk about that. We're going to get to that because I'm agreeing with you because that's what I thought as well.
00:04:53But there's kudos and there's kudos. We're talking about how the man receiving it, not thinking to himself good on you.
00:05:03Okay.
00:05:03I respect you. You know, that's not happening. Right. What is it? What does it say? It is what it is, is till it's R.
00:05:12So, um, yes.
00:05:14I never heard that.
00:05:15I probably will never use it.
00:05:17You just make it up to himself?
00:05:18Maybe. Well, no. I mean, I heard our friend Mikkel Tejas say that. I probably said it wrong. I do apologize, Mikkel.
00:05:24But we've figured it out.
00:05:26As the saying goes, what is the is, will is, it cannot are.
00:05:30It cannot are like that one more friend.
00:05:32So, she woke up one day and just said, listen, I love somebody else. And it wasn't a case of, I'm remorseful. Because that's a key thing. Are you remorseful? Then there could be a fight.
00:05:46But if, if the woman looks at you and says, I am, I done heading there. And you are now getting that, that whammy. So, his world has fallen apart. And it's like, okay, well, what is happening to the persons that he shared it with now are saying, fight. So, um, so the question is, brothers, what are you fighting for? The person has said, I'm, I love somebody else. It's not like, it's not like I'm just unhappy with you.
00:06:16You're now pretty much finding out that that person was unhappy. I'm moving on with somebody else. And you there, you're playing catch up. That, that, that horse is already bolted. And it's not a fight there. It's not a fight there. It's not a fight there. Because she already said, not only am I not unhappy with you, but somebody else already makes me happy. Love, she's saying, she didn't say, yeah, I'm jamming somebody else.
00:06:45She's saying, I love, I'm in love with somebody else. And it's not you. That's wild.
00:06:50That's crazy. But in a, in a romantic relationship, if you have to fight, it has to be two people fighting.
00:06:55Yeah, maybe one had more indiscretions than the other and has to work a little bit harder at that fight. But if there's nothing there, there's nothing there, right?
00:07:03So two people have to have to want to be there at some level. And I think what you said earlier, that's not fighting. In my world, that's just working on your relationship and improving date night, being better at sitting things.
00:07:17And trust me, in my world, when carnival comes around, I have to work real hard at my relationship, right?
00:07:22I mean, like, like, like we all, right?
00:07:25Yeah.
00:07:25But that's work. And it's constant work for constant reward. That's how it should be.
00:07:30But when you're at those junctions, those bridges, that's a fight. But, but it can't be alone. You'll both have to want something out of it.
00:07:39So let me ask you something, Shane. Does he, when, when does he 80, 20, 70, 30, 60, 40, you know, 59, 41, all of these ratios and percentages apply.
00:07:50So, you know, they say if, if you come home in a relationship and the person's at 80 with regards to angry, right?
00:07:58You ought to be at, you can't be at 21 because there's only 100. So if you're at 21, there's going to be disaster.
00:08:03So if at that point you're in that relationship where the person might say, I want a divorce, I want a separation, I want a breakup, and it's not just simply out of emotion, they might really mean it at the time.
00:08:15They might be getting a little attention. They might feel good. They might be going to gym and all of a sudden what made them, you know, presence, whether it be trauma bonding, all of these things, you know, women, they go and get implants and they start to feel better about themselves.
00:08:29They get that attention and they get that attention and they might even realize at the time that they, they wanted that attention on social media, the likes, et cetera.
00:08:36And they, they, they're going down a path at that point of that misled adoration.
00:08:42Are you to fight at that point to, while they're, while they're sort of lost, if the case may be lost, to hold on to the relationship until they can get over that, that, that hurdle or that moment or that period that they're going through?
00:09:00I think you have to be very brutally honest with yourself first and say, okay, if they went outside to find something, was it something I was not giving them, that I should have been?
00:09:13And that's where your fight comes in, right? Now I have to fight to prove myself all over again.
00:09:17But you know, it's a relationship and you have so many factors, contributing factors, kids, family, society, financial, because, you know, you need, you need to have those things planned out at a certain stage in your life.
00:09:29To consider that there's no one answer, but you have to be very brutally honest to yourself and say, okay, yeah, I was kind of messing up.
00:09:37I could have done better. I know. And you know, when you, when you should have done better, you know, when you was one side, although you argued, you was one side.
00:09:43Yeah, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and fix that.
00:09:46You know, you know, I don't feel I do. I did it wrong.
00:09:50You turn it wrong and say, I did it wrong.
00:09:54So I think that the fact that you know, cause let me come back to two things Robert said, Robert said, um, in his scenario, he said, the person wake up all of a sudden.
00:10:04And then he say again, all of a sudden the person realized, right?
00:10:08I don't think.
00:10:08No, I didn't mean all of a sudden they realize all of us, what I'm saying to, to, to the person who's getting it, receiving the information, all of a sudden this information comes.
00:10:18You know, you got deluge at that point, you know, okay.
00:10:22Flood, it's in you with all of this information, all of these different scenarios.
00:10:26It's not like I'm unhappy or I want to break up or I slept with somebody is like all of these things.
00:10:32And I love the person and I want to be with the person.
00:10:38And it's just constant to all of these happening.
00:10:40And it's all of a sudden to them, that person has been experiencing it all along.
00:10:45So there, when they give that information, the only hurt, if there is any remorse at that point is because I do have some love for you, and I'm sorry that this information is now hurting you, but you're not remorseful for it.
00:11:01They're actually quite happy.
00:11:02All right.
00:11:03I hear what you're saying and I misunderstand there, but I'll still use the example because in relationships, human behavior is thought and the feeling interaction.
00:11:13Whatever is going on in your mind, right, always manifests in some sort of behavior.
00:11:18And because of that.
00:11:19So just say that again for the.
00:11:21So human behavior, thought into feeling into action, whatever we think creates our feeling and feeling is energy that fuels the action.
00:11:28So even when sometimes we think we hide in something, right, something in your action always, always manifests.
00:11:36And especially, let's just say in a married scenario where two people living together and for those who are married or live with someone, you can't hide in them.
00:11:44Even though you're pretending before, eventually who you are comes out, good, bad, indifferent.
00:11:50So I'm putting that premise out there first.
00:11:52So just pause there for a moment because a lot of people right now, they're in goosebumps, asking themselves, you know, WTF.
00:12:01Because people are skeletons.
00:12:03Yes.
00:12:03A lot.
00:12:04And what you're saying now, if you say it's going to manifest, man who have coke in his son or women, listening are now going, what do you mean, boy?
00:12:12Well, listen, the truth is the truth.
00:12:15Before, Shaney said you had to be brutally honest.
00:12:19My belief is you have no such thing as brutal honesty.
00:12:21You have no such thing as the harsh truth.
00:12:23The truth is just the truth.
00:12:26What is harsh is a lie.
00:12:27Whether you're lying to yourself or somebody lying to you.
00:12:31That is where the harshness is.
00:12:33You want to go deep today, boy.
00:12:34I feel uncomfortable.
00:12:36Let me see.
00:12:36Let me see.
00:12:37Let me see.
00:12:38Well, good, you know, because I squoom in too, you know, because I, and I know he's going to the personal segment after, but I lived a life of untruth for a long time.
00:12:49I am almost 40 years old.
00:12:51And when I look back, I realize that a lot of what I lived on was untruth.
00:12:56What I thought was the truth.
00:12:58So I'm going with relationships.
00:12:59And even looking back at my own relationships, it was built on a lot of false, false truths.
00:13:05So if in a scenario where you realize you're not feeling somebody anymore, you don't love somebody anymore.
00:13:11Let me use those two scenarios.
00:13:12Because if one, somebody say, I don't, I love somebody else.
00:13:16You're not really, what you might be fighting for is a fantasy, you know.
00:13:20You have in your mind what you wanted the relationship to be.
00:13:25And you're still holding on to that.
00:13:26You're still attached to that.
00:13:27So even though, no matter what the person's saying or doing, you're ignoring the truth to hold on to the fantasy.
00:13:34So the person say, I don't know, I'm with somebody else, I love somebody else.
00:13:38They might even get pregnant for the next person.
00:13:40But you're still in the delusion because you hold on to it so long.
00:13:45You see why we have him in that seat?
00:13:46Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:13:47You see why he's invited all the time?
00:13:49Now I get it.
00:13:49Thank you very much.
00:13:52That you're fighting for something that don't exist.
00:13:55Now I premise that.
00:13:56So let me go back now.
00:13:57Thought, feeling, and action.
00:14:00Most times in a relationship before, the person was getting your signs, you know.
00:14:04But again, if you hold on to that fantasy so much, you wouldn't even see it.
00:14:10It's only sometimes when you snap out of it, when the divorce happens.
00:14:13And I could tell even clients I have, it's only after.
00:14:16And I'll use both male and female.
00:14:18It's only after.
00:14:18But you know what, I really did see that.
00:14:21But, you know, I ignore the red flags.
00:14:25And I always give the scenario.
00:14:26If you go to Maracas Beach and you see a red flag, you're going to dive in the water to make sure it's a red flag?
00:14:33No.
00:14:33Exactly.
00:14:34So that's what we do.
00:14:36When in a relationship, we see a red flag and try to justify, try to rationalize.
00:14:41But it's based on the fantasy that we have or the perception of that thing that we were attached to.
00:14:47So really and truly, we'd be lying to ourselves.
00:14:50Correct.
00:14:50We in the lulu.
00:14:51Exactly.
00:14:51Correct.
00:14:52So this is really, really good stuff for the next segment.
00:14:57You said something, Shane, where you said, we know, we always do know, but who wants to self-inflict?
00:15:04You know, they say you can't drown yourself.
00:15:07You could put, you could tie something to your foot and you could go down, but you can't, you can't drown yourself.
00:15:11You can't, you know, some people to say.
00:15:14No, some people could drown themselves.
00:15:16And if you're so attached to that illusion or delusion, you will drown yourself.
00:15:22You could push yourself beyond the limits of reality.
00:15:25The reality is, she say I love somebody.
00:15:27She say I was with somebody else.
00:15:29She say I don't want to be with you anymore.
00:15:31That is the reality.
00:15:33But we so attached to that outcome and even let's say male ego, right?
00:15:37In a segment before we talk about, we had a female guest and she was asking why when a woman say no, right?
00:15:43I'm not on you.
00:15:44Men still pursue.
00:15:45Sometimes that could be your own ego.
00:15:48You feel, well, nah, I'm so good.
00:15:50I could do whatever it is to convince her otherwise.
00:15:53But that's also, you could be lying to yourself.
00:15:56But also, but also women, women also say, you know, everyone likes a challenge.
00:16:01And sometimes when that challenge is done and you no longer feel like you're chasing, it causes a problem.
00:16:08And that's when you talk about things like, you know, even in relationships.
00:16:11And this is things for the second segment, but masculine energy was another thing where the woman, especially when they have kids,
00:16:17now feels that that person is not being a man.
00:16:19And as a result, they start to feel more and more like they have to take on that masculine energy to provide
00:16:25and do things that they perceive that the man should do, right?
00:16:30But second segment.
00:16:32So we're taking a short break and we'll come back asking the question simply,
00:16:36as a man, should you fight for a romantic relationship?
00:16:41Stay with us.
00:16:49Guys, welcome back.
00:16:55We have Shane, Johansson, Robert, and of course, Niall.
00:16:58And we're speaking about should men fight for their romantic relationships?
00:17:02But let me get right back into it.
00:17:04We still did not define what is fight in this particular situation, at least to me, right?
00:17:10How I view it, fighting sounds like not begging, right?
00:17:18But really and truly understanding what was actually needed in a relationship and then applying it.
00:17:26That's what fighting really means.
00:17:28So in a situation where your girlfriend upset with you for some ever reason and she's ready to walk away from you,
00:17:36the fight in this case is understanding why, what you have to do, what are the steps, and then moving forward.
00:17:42If it is that, and I feel that it happens a lot to men, is that we know what fights we cannot win.
00:17:50I realize women, and I'm trying to be very careful not to get counsel, right?
00:17:56A lot of women don't know when they can't win a fight.
00:17:59They will still rush.
00:18:00They're the bravest people on the planet, by the way, right?
00:18:02Women, right?
00:18:03They will rush in to the biggest person and be like, I can win this.
00:18:06It's like a real delusional.
00:18:07That's how we avoid it.
00:18:08Not delusional, because you know, they could win a fight.
00:18:11Maybe, right?
00:18:12But for men, we, I think, have a better understanding of, I don't think I could win this one, right?
00:18:18Unless you're in a delusional space.
00:18:20Now, you have to watch it.
00:18:22Please save me if ever I get it.
00:18:23That's a space where I've had no job, right?
00:18:25You're the idioting, man.
00:18:26You're the idioting.
00:18:27So I think that we know when we can't win the fight.
00:18:32And if you know that you can't win the fight, anything after that is begging.
00:18:36And if you're begging, that's an ick for most women.
00:18:40But you're speaking from a perspective of logic, right?
00:18:46Logic, that makes sense.
00:18:48But human emotion is different.
00:18:50And we speak about the ego.
00:18:52So you're not looking to say, hey, can I win this fight?
00:18:55Just like you want to win the fight.
00:18:58You almost need to win the fight because you're grieving at our point.
00:19:01Your heart is, you know, it might, some people say physically in certain cases, but your heart
00:19:06is breaking.
00:19:07Your ego is crushed.
00:19:11And you are looking at a situation now, looking at, as Johanse pointed out, whatever you put
00:19:16as your vision or what you thought that relationship is and what it meant to you and your focus
00:19:22is now crushed.
00:19:24It's no longer the reality.
00:19:26So when you say fight, it is a matter of, you are going to fight anyway.
00:19:30And you're not necessarily fighting because at that point, you necessarily love or want
00:19:36or recognize later down the line that this relationship is going to fizzle out now because
00:19:41of what happened.
00:19:42You're going to fight because you don't want another man to win.
00:19:45You're going to be thinking another man going to be...
00:19:48Sorry, go ahead, Rob.
00:19:51No, no, you...
00:19:52Yeah, so actually, because you said begging, and to me, begging is a real strong word because
00:19:57in the traditional sense, begging happens when you lack logic and lack a promise.
00:20:04So you have no choice now but to beg for it.
00:20:07But fight is very opposite because fight is you see a brighter future or some version of
00:20:13a future.
00:20:13You see a promise, you see some logic, you see something happening.
00:20:17And a lot of times, people get lost and men get lost in that because you're fighting
00:20:22and you're fighting for a relationship, but the relationship is not going to be the same
00:20:25as it was before.
00:20:27Exactly.
00:20:27Especially when you're having discussions or big things happening.
00:20:30It's not going to be the exact same as it was before.
00:20:33So now you have to really dress back and say, yo, yes, I'm fighting for what we had,
00:20:38but do I know what we will have?
00:20:40You know?
00:20:41Version 2.0.
00:20:43You see what you say about what we will have?
00:20:46So let me go with beg and fight.
00:20:48Now, I'm not being semantic.
00:20:50I'm being intentional with the language we're using because both beg and fight to me don't
00:20:55have positive connotations.
00:20:56They're not.
00:20:57Because when two people fight, it's, let's say, two opposing ideologies and one person
00:21:02has to win by overpowering the other.
00:21:05So do we really want to fight for a relationship?
00:21:07And then if I win, that means I overpower what the person wanted, and now I have the person,
00:21:12but the person is now in submission.
00:21:14The person now may not even be happy, but I get what I want.
00:21:18Now, I put it out there because, so you see, we want to get a little role.
00:21:22When I was doing prison counseling, I was specifically, I specifically was interested in talking to the rapists
00:21:29because I didn't understand the joy, I say joy because I don't know, it is from my outside,
00:21:35or the excitement in subduing a woman.
00:21:39It is so much more beautiful to me when she willingly gives herself to you,
00:21:43you take it from them now.
00:21:46And when I spoke to them, I realized a lot of it was broken men, ego, in terms of their ego,
00:21:54in terms of even being attached to something that don't exist.
00:21:58So in their mind, I'll just give an example.
00:22:00In their mind, I love this woman, I want this woman, I want to have sex with this woman,
00:22:04and she is mine.
00:22:06Now, that is not the reality.
00:22:07She may not even like you, she may not even know you exist,
00:22:11but they are attached to a fantasy.
00:22:13So they fight and subdue her.
00:22:16So it's the same way in a relationship.
00:22:18So let me go back to what you said about the expectation.
00:22:22If you have an expectation, it means there was some sort of agreement.
00:22:25So now we go in there with a relationship, a relationship to me,
00:22:30more romantic or otherwise, should be an agreement between two people.
00:22:34So let's say you say you want date night every week for a year, right?
00:22:40That's what you put out.
00:22:41And I say, you know what?
00:22:42I can't give you that.
00:22:43I could give you half of the year.
00:22:45So now we're together having an agreement.
00:22:48So let's just say same scenario.
00:22:49I step out on you and the relationship, and we're deciding,
00:22:53not we're fighting or begging, we're deciding that we're going to give this a try.
00:22:58Now there has to be an agreement between two people that now we're working towards
00:23:05instead of fighting for.
00:23:07Tell me your thoughts.
00:23:08So I want each of you guys said, and I always say it on this show,
00:23:13you come in with one thought process, one trend of thought, or train of thought.
00:23:20And during these filming, you have a totally different perspective.
00:23:27And that's what you all have given me again.
00:23:29A lot of things were thrown out here.
00:23:31So the difference between begging and fighting and red flags and all of these different things.
00:23:36But having, and we talk real on this show, so having been in that situation before,
00:23:44you really are so caught up in yourself that you don't see these red flags
00:23:50because you're living, you're in this scenario, living the life that you want to live.
00:23:55And whether you do so or like so, whether you're doing all the stuff that you may want to do
00:24:01that might be, that might thought cause the actions and all of these things come about
00:24:06that might eventually put you in a situation.
00:24:10And you say, we know, we look back and we know what we've done.
00:24:14But even in knowing what we've done doesn't change the fact when you get the information,
00:24:18the pain is any less real.
00:24:20And when, at that stage, you're going to almost, you're going to beg
00:24:27because it's like when you wake up inebriated, still inebriated,
00:24:32or you go to bed inebriated, you still wake up half drunk or still drunk, as they say.
00:24:37Sometimes you tell it, the best thing to do is have a beer
00:24:41or something that balances off again and then takes you back down slowly.
00:24:46So if you, whether it works or not, I don't know, right?
00:24:49But I'm just saying that you want to ease it.
00:24:52And a lot of times when you're begging, you just, you're filled with so much,
00:24:57you're overwhelmed with this pain that hits you.
00:25:01That, and that pain could be not just the person wants to leave,
00:25:05but the fact that they're with another man.
00:25:06And as a man, you're thinking about all the other things that that man probably did
00:25:10that you weren't doing.
00:25:11And that woman is having several sort of quotes and quote one night stands
00:25:15where they, you know, they're freeing up themselves
00:25:18because if you're in a marriage or relationship over a period of time,
00:25:21things might have gone, you know, it might have started to go a bit downhill.
00:25:26And all of these scenarios are playing around in your head.
00:25:29And you, you are, you are getting, you are getting that hard job of pain.
00:25:35So you want just to maintain something that allows, whether it's like she says,
00:25:40okay, I want to come back or you want some sort of scenario based on that.
00:25:46And as Shane mentioned, that relationship is now, if you, if it comes back at all,
00:25:54it's now 2.0, 3.0, it's, it is certainly, it's not, it's not, it's not like a clean slate.
00:26:02We, we are waiting, that woman's going to come back and trust this user is going to come in.
00:26:06There's going to be resentment for what you did in the first place.
00:26:10And, and so the reality is, even though you know it's done based on the scenario,
00:26:16because this is not like, I just want to leave.
00:26:18This is based on your God, depends on the situation.
00:26:20And she went with somebody else or other indiscretions, whatever the case may be.
00:26:24Once that trust, the fabric of that is broken, anything else after that,
00:26:29unless you have serious therapy and church and all the rest of it.
00:26:33I disagree with that.
00:26:34And that's what we're here to talk about.
00:26:36I disagree with that.
00:26:36Because here's what I feel that we're not, we're getting confused with.
00:26:42When we say we're fighting, for me, I'm fighting for my wife.
00:26:46I'm not fighting for the relationship.
00:26:47How I break everything logically into liability and assets.
00:26:52Is this woman an asset to my life?
00:26:54Is this woman a liability to my life?
00:26:56Right?
00:26:57I will fight for my assets as best as I can.
00:26:59With the most logical way I could do it.
00:27:02Right?
00:27:03So when we say fight, and you said something earlier, Rob, where, you know,
00:27:07there's a crushing to a man's ego.
00:27:09Sometimes men egos need to be crushed.
00:27:11We, we, we need that spanking sometimes.
00:27:14And a lot of times we, we get, we get lost in our own source and women with their empathy,
00:27:19actually the ones who are able to be able to play both sides of a relationship.
00:27:24Most times, why, where, as I've noticed that men could only see one, right?
00:27:29We can only see where a man, this is how things are supposed to go,
00:27:32where a woman are able to kind of flex between what a man should do and what I should do.
00:27:37Right?
00:27:37So going back to my point where I'm, I don't care about the relationship.
00:27:43I want this woman in my life, no matter what it is, right?
00:27:47Whether it is, if she have to go with somebody else, which has happened to me.
00:27:51I love this girl.
00:27:52I could not be with her anymore.
00:27:53But I said to myself, you know, whatever happened, I need to keep her in my life somehow.
00:27:58So right now we are best friends.
00:28:00She's with someone else.
00:28:01It's hurt my heart every day to see her smiling sometimes, but it's actually make my heart better when I feel like, oh, she's happy.
00:28:08But I could not provide that happiness for her any time that we was together.
00:28:13So that was me fighting and I fought and I won.
00:28:16That's an interesting one, you know.
00:28:18And I actually, I respect that you could say that because if we're looking at it logically, right?
00:28:26What is an asset?
00:28:27What is not?
00:28:27Let's just say a woman don't want to be with you romantically.
00:28:31But let's just say she's give real good business advice.
00:28:35I'll just give an example.
00:28:36I want in my life, I realized we were together once and the relationship didn't work.
00:28:40The romantic relationship didn't work.
00:28:42But I still want to be able to have access to the advice.
00:28:45And she have no problem giving me that.
00:28:47But she want to be with somebody else.
00:28:49To be able to see the person, see her with somebody else and you and it hurts your heart and still do it.
00:28:55I think that takes a certain degree of, I would say, maturity.
00:28:58But, you know, I mean, I could argue it and say you like pain, right?
00:29:03But I use in both scenarios because I think it's really about what you want in life.
00:29:10As a man, I think we should be intentional about what we want in life.
00:29:14And if we're not emotional about it, now I'm not saying to suppress the emotion, but if we're not emotional about it, you can have everything you want, you know.
00:29:25But sometimes our ego, I want this woman and she has to be mine and I want to own her.
00:29:31Versus, you know what, I just want her advice.
00:29:34Now she could be with somebody else.
00:29:35And I'll be happy you say that, you know, because I think that could help a lot of men.
00:29:40And you're telling me that it helped me because I, as you were speaking, I even analyzed some of my previous relationships where I wanted the woman to be as specific.
00:29:49I remember my first girlfriend I had, right?
00:29:52I wanted somebody who is my partner but a woman so I could share that sexual, that sensual part of it.
00:29:59And I didn't necessarily see her for her, you know.
00:30:02I just saw her for what I want.
00:30:03So when she presented things that was opposite to what I wanted, I started getting vexed, right?
00:30:10And even to the point that I even started looking for somebody else, thinking that something was wrong with her versus me not seeing the truth of who she is.
00:30:21And I think a lot of men, I mean women too, but we're speaking to men right now.
00:30:26A lot of us, we want a partner.
00:30:29We want a relationship, a romantic relationship, and we want it to look like a certain way.
00:30:33So then when it's something not looking like it, we fight, we beg because we want it that way.
00:30:42So when we talk about one, it's okay for Niall in this scenario to say it hurts him to see him with another man, right?
00:30:55But he still has a friendship.
00:30:57But then also for the man, he himself is being, that's a level of maturity because they have men who be like, hey, I don't want you to talk to your ex.
00:31:06Once it was a physical relationship.
00:31:09So you could also, in many ways, you lose the woman, but you can't even get that because the man that she's with might say, hey, I don't want you to have any connections with her.
00:31:18And also women do the same thing with men.
00:31:21And I want to talk about the wake-up call because the wake-up call is very, what you'd find is the person that's going through it.
00:31:29And Shane, we spoke about this in the break where the person that's going through it at the time doesn't want to hear that, hey, I give that woman props for telling her truth, right?
00:31:40Or your friends may, or other people might look on and say, hey, since that man got that butt or that breakup or this happened to him, he's changed.
00:31:51You know, people want to see that, hey, that has actually worked in a positive in certain ways to make him more humble.
00:31:57The way, you know, his humility is in a different, has a different presence now.
00:32:03All of these different things.
00:32:05And you may also learn to treat a woman differently or not make the same mistakes, unless you're like licks and like pain.
00:32:13In the next world, exactly.
00:32:16Yes, and then, I mean.
00:32:17No, why is that good point?
00:32:19But, you know.
00:32:21He pointed you.
00:32:22Yeah, five points away.
00:32:24What's your thoughts on the opposite side?
00:32:26The kudos for the person actually telling the truth.
00:32:29That's great when you're talking about characters in a movie or it's a far-removed story, but that BS, when you're in it and it's your partner, it's you, it's your family member.
00:32:40Yeah, it's f***ing.
00:32:42It's his shit right in the gut.
00:32:44You don't want to hear that.
00:32:46Yeah, maybe it's true.
00:32:47Maybe, oh, independence and great, but you don't want to hear that.
00:32:51You know why?
00:32:51Because you there crying in the corner when everybody else leaves.
00:32:54When the line's done and you go to that lonely bed, that rough, and you know that's not what you wanted, you know, that's too, that's too much to take sometimes.
00:33:03So, and your role as a part, now as a family member amongst men, you have to be sympathetic.
00:33:12You have to be caring.
00:33:14You have to be advisory.
00:33:16But you also have to leave some room for, hey, if them decide to get back together tomorrow, you can't go out and talk to that girl.
00:33:22So, you know, you have to give them a chance.
00:33:25You just have to be as supportive as possible for your person to find what they really want.
00:33:31So, I want us to take a break and I want us to really talk about that, Shane, because that is very key.
00:33:39As the friends, as the family, what do you do, one, with the partner?
00:33:44Because you might have been friends with the person.
00:33:46So, you don't just want to excommunicate them because they made a decision.
00:33:51And two, how do you be there for that friend?
00:33:53And if you're there for that friend in what way that doesn't impact that, should they then get back with that person?
00:34:00Or you are now, there's going to be a point that if somebody's telling you, hey, that person's so-and-so-and-so, because you still love that person,
00:34:08you hearing those things, you don't want to become maybe so defensive of that person.
00:34:13You might then say, boy, I don't even want to hear from you, boy.
00:34:15You go through different stages and levels in that pain.
00:34:20And it's really interesting for us to talk about how do you, how are you there for that friend and even the partner who may have left.
00:34:29So, take care of yourself.
00:34:41So, thank you for staying with us on Manhood.
00:34:43The topic is, should men, or as a man, should you fight for your romantic relationship?
00:34:50I'm here with Johanse, Shane, Niall.
00:34:53And before we went to the break, we ended off talking about a wake-up call and how sometimes that may impact the person's behavior going forward
00:35:04so that friends, family, co-workers, colleagues, persons on the outside may have a different outlook on what's happening in that relationship.
00:35:14And sometimes it may work out for the positive, how they treat someone afterwards, how they become a better person, all of these things.
00:35:21But at that point, you're just going through your pain.
00:35:24And while you're going through that pain, whether you get back with the person in 3.0 or 2.0 or anything happens,
00:35:33how at that point can you be there for that friend?
00:35:37Because remember, you also have a relationship or you might have built a relationship with the same person who may be at this stage being vilified.
00:35:45And we don't want that for either party.
00:35:48But that support is needed because only you're going through that pain.
00:35:53But as a friend, as a family member, how can you be there for your brethren?
00:36:00And your sister, because like I said, even though she's made a decision to walk away,
00:36:04she went through periods of pain even during that relationship.
00:36:08And it's now being manifested.
00:36:10And even in that quote-unquote happiness of her moving on or not even necessarily being with a man,
00:36:16but just deciding to leave, she also needs support.
00:36:19All right.
00:36:20So let me start first with, and you know I always go here, be honest about who you are.
00:36:25So now you are the friend supported.
00:36:26If your honest thing is f*** them, then say that, right?
00:36:30I'll also add on a psychological level.
00:36:33When we're out of a relationship, we lose something that we had or at least we thought we had.
00:36:40So therefore, if it's loss, it's also you have to go through a period of mourning.
00:36:44So if you think about it like that, if somebody, your friend lost a relative or somebody close to them,
00:36:49how would you support them because they're losing something they have?
00:36:52And I'll give you all this to help understand.
00:36:57You have the five stages of grief, right?
00:36:59Denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance.
00:37:06So I'll say it again.
00:37:07The five stages of grief.
00:37:08Denial.
00:37:09Nah.
00:37:11Nah, I doubt she do that.
00:37:13Anger.
00:37:14She really f***ing do that, boy.
00:37:16Bargaining.
00:37:17Well, maybe the relationship.
00:37:19I want to stop.
00:37:20You know why I want to make a pause there?
00:37:22Because I want you to see it to the camera.
00:37:24All right.
00:37:24Because we're here in the presence here.
00:37:26We hear it.
00:37:27But I want you to specifically say it to your camera.
00:37:30Because I hear in these things here, I did bring it back.
00:37:34Strong.
00:37:35Strong.
00:37:35So I'll go in.
00:37:36The five stages of grief.
00:37:37Denial.
00:37:38I can't believe he or she did this thing.
00:37:41Anger.
00:37:41She really or he really do this thing, boy.
00:37:44Bargaining.
00:37:45Well, it's maybe.
00:37:46My fault is maybe.
00:37:48They are bringing maybe, et cetera.
00:37:50Depression.
00:37:51Nah, boy.
00:37:52He or she really do that.
00:37:54I feel it is the worst thing in the world.
00:37:56And then acceptance, yeah, boy.
00:37:58I understand that this is the reality of things.
00:38:01Now, even though I spoke about it in that particular order, it doesn't mean that it stays at that order.
00:38:05Because you could reach acceptance and fly right back to denial.
00:38:09And then come to anger and so forth and so on.
00:38:11But understanding that we go through all these emotions, you go through it, your friend will go through it, and being supportive and letting them have that.
00:38:21So if you just, you want to come and cuss, just come and cuss.
00:38:23If you want to come and cry, just come and cry.
00:38:26If you reach acceptance, yes.
00:38:27But then next day, I want to cry again.
00:38:29You said something there that not only that's the emotions that you go through, but when you said certain things, like even in the bargaining, those are things that you also go through in the relationship or the broken relationship at that point.
00:38:45Because a man might now approach a woman and say, hey, let's do this, and I will give you this.
00:38:51And you're trying now, you're grasping at anything now to bring back some sort of connection.
00:38:55So in the ways of bargaining or depression, those are also ways, to me, hearing you say that, that I know friends of mine, I might have done myself in relationships.
00:39:07When you're going through that pain, you're just really holding on to anything at that particular point.
00:39:13You know, whether it's, you know, I'll give you money, I'll give you this, or let me do it.
00:39:17All of these different scenarios come up because you're just desperate to ease that pain.
00:39:23A bunch of band-aids.
00:39:25A bunch of band-aids.
00:39:26You know, denial.
00:39:28Boy, this is not really happening.
00:39:30Or, you know, maybe it was a one-off.
00:39:32And you start to paint all these scenarios as to what really occurred.
00:39:35And sometimes you're painted worse in your mind as a creative or less.
00:39:41Either way it is, you are not owning what the reality of the situation is, which is.
00:39:47That is true to Robert.
00:39:48Robert, you see, and I see when you use that word desperate, that hurt my stomach.
00:39:53I'm thinking about myself.
00:39:54In so many times, I was f***ing desperate to us.
00:39:58You're desperate.
00:39:59And I realize.
00:40:00I've never been in that situation.
00:40:01That desperation for me, that desperation for me was me not accepting reality.
00:40:07The desperation was also because I was not at a stage where I was comfortable with my own truth.
00:40:12Right?
00:40:13I will give a quick digression and come back quick to it.
00:40:16When I was studying away, I remember, really intrigued about people who do S&M, right?
00:40:23Sado, Sado, Sado, Sado, Sado, Sado, Sado, Sado, Sado, Sado, Sado, Sado, Sado, Sado, Sado, Sado, Sado, Sado.
00:40:26I know everybody answered that perfect English, but I appreciated how honest they were, right?
00:40:37Their honesty about it.
00:40:39They would say, you know, I like pain.
00:40:41And I like the pain because X, Y, Z.
00:40:43And they could have explained it.
00:40:45You know, the pain helps me this, this, this.
00:40:47And then I like inflicting pain because X, Y, Z.
00:40:51And then within the scenario, I mean, if those who know or don't know, there are things like safe words and things like that.
00:40:57And the relationship between the, I can't remember, the person in charge.
00:41:04I can't remember the proper name for it, right?
00:41:05I don't want to say it now because.
00:41:06Dominant.
00:41:08Dominant.
00:41:09Between the dominant.
00:41:09Dominant tricks.
00:41:10Right.
00:41:11The relationship was always one of intimacy and truth.
00:41:16And trust.
00:41:16And trust.
00:41:18And I was like, why, why it is the, the seemingly deviant side of it was more truthful than the seemingly normal side of it.
00:41:27Because you have two people in a normal relationship lying to each other.
00:41:32And then in the abnormal relationship, you have two people who are honest with each other.
00:41:38And that.
00:41:38I just want to pause there just to say that any, any information we have here, as, as Marshall said, this is qualitative analysis.
00:41:45We have qualitative analysis.
00:41:48This is all up for research purposes.
00:41:51Oh gosh.
00:41:51Yes.
00:41:52I always research into because, because one thing I always yearn for and, and in, in, in this marriage that I am in is the, the closest thing.
00:42:03And I saying closest because I myself not fully always truthful.
00:42:07And I, and I learning to, to reach that stage where I am just myself.
00:42:12And so we'll be going back with all these scenarios.
00:42:15If in a relationship, you're honest, then there might be any red flags because you're honest.
00:42:22I'm telling you exactly what it is.
00:42:24You want to say, let's come back to this.
00:42:26Two.
00:42:26Way to paint that, I want you to, that perimeter again.
00:42:28If I honest and you honest, because let's say I honest, I say, you know what?
00:42:31I want to be with 10 women.
00:42:33I just give an example.
00:42:34Right?
00:42:35That is my honesty.
00:42:36However, you react, should be honest.
00:42:38So you could say either, nah, I can handle this, I go on.
00:42:40Or say, all right, not 10, I can handle two.
00:42:44Right?
00:42:44And in that moment there, that's a, that in itself is more true than pretending.
00:42:49Well, you know, I say, no, I really, this is what I wanted.
00:42:52So I'm painting that scenario because if, whether we support any friend, whether we're in the relationship, if it's based on truth, then we wouldn't run into a lot of these problems.
00:43:04Your world wouldn't be shattered.
00:43:06Because it has nothing to shatter because you're honest in the first place.
00:43:09I know my partner.
00:43:10No, no, no, no.
00:43:11You know your partner.
00:43:11It has nothing to shatter.
00:43:13I'm going to disagree with you there, Johan.
00:43:15Tell me.
00:43:15Because, because I told you to talk about truth with regards to how you be, because what we want to talk about is how do you support that partner?
00:43:21But in the relationship, you know, when you have, you know, I talk about the vows where we talk about till death do us part and all that.
00:43:27And when you could, you should really say, I will always give you my truth.
00:43:30But in that truth, you can love somebody, but you want your cake and you want to eat it.
00:43:34And you know, we come back to what is good for the goose, not good for the gander.
00:43:37So as a man, you might want to play yourself.
00:43:40But in wanting to play yourself, you know that that woman is not going to accept it.
00:43:45So even if you tell her, you might tell her, but I want 10 women.
00:43:47She'll go, but I want two.
00:43:49I have, I have had, and I'm sure we all have brethren who you have these discussions where they talk about it.
00:43:54They want a threesome and they want to do these different things.
00:43:56And the wifey, the girlfriend, whatever, might be partied at that particular point.
00:44:02But afterwards, somebody going through drama after that.
00:44:08They're going to have some hurt feelings.
00:44:09There will be some, there will be some buildup of something.
00:44:13That's why you have to be honest.
00:44:14Honest and listen.
00:44:15Yeah, but you see it all about being honest.
00:44:17But at that point, you're still, you're still, like logic.
00:44:22Yes, you'll be honest and you see it and something happens and you know that that happened as a result of this action, action and reaction, right?
00:44:32But doesn't mean that it's going to hurt you any less.
00:44:35You are with this woman.
00:44:36You don't want to leave this woman or you don't want this woman to leave you.
00:44:39You like that scenario.
00:44:41And now, as a result of these actions, this is going to happen.
00:44:45It's a consequence of that.
00:44:46So, honest, you could live, you could live honest.
00:44:50But you're going to live in pain.
00:44:52I disagree.
00:44:53But that's what we're here to discuss.
00:44:55I mean, I don't expect you to hear.
00:44:56All stand up here and agree with me.
00:44:57Honesty can never lead to pain.
00:44:59Can never.
00:45:00That's a kind of self-comforting place if you're really honest with yourself.
00:45:05And you do what you did, what you had to do.
00:45:09Then I agree, you can't be in pain.
00:45:11You can't.
00:45:11You did what you're supposed to do.
00:45:12You try your best for whatever the result is.
00:45:15And I'd say there has to be left or right.
00:45:17I'd say there has to be in a relationship.
00:45:19Your conscience is clear or you're kind of in pain.
00:45:23All right?
00:45:23That's what I want you to do.
00:45:24And no, but when you're battling that internally, you're in pain.
00:45:29I don't see it.
00:45:30You see, where you're battling could be reality, you know.
00:45:33And I say that specifically because let's just say, let's use your scenario.
00:45:40I want a threesome.
00:45:42I want to be plenty of women.
00:45:44And I still want to be my woman.
00:45:45I don't want her to leave me.
00:45:47I want her to accept it.
00:45:48That's what I want.
00:45:49Right.
00:45:49You're saying that.
00:45:50But that doesn't mean that's the reality of it.
00:45:53Right?
00:45:53That's your truth on what you want from the world.
00:45:56What you think your truth might be, because sometimes afterwards you might realize I didn't really.
00:46:00But you see, you can't reach that conclusion if you do explore your truth currently.
00:46:05Right?
00:46:06So you explore your truth.
00:46:07Either you tell your woman or you say it out.
00:46:10You put it out there.
00:46:11Right?
00:46:12You're not keeping it inside.
00:46:13Because keeping it inside is what create the toxicity.
00:46:15It's what create vices.
00:46:17It's what create all the things that ruin relationships.
00:46:20You put it out there.
00:46:21The person now has you.
00:46:24They understand the truth of you.
00:46:25So the person can say, no, I don't want to be no part of this.
00:46:28Or I don't mind this.
00:46:30Now, if the person say they don't want to be part of it.
00:46:37You need some water.
00:46:39You need some truth.
00:46:40You need some truth.
00:46:40Right?
00:46:41Hold on.
00:46:41Before we start back.
00:46:42Before we start back.
00:46:43Are you really disagreeing?
00:46:44Because all I say is, because it's 12 minutes and we have three.
00:46:49So everybody had a run in terms of the final segment.
00:46:52Gather your thoughts.
00:46:54Gather your thoughts.
00:46:55But I also want to say that, do we feel, because this is a real powerful topic.
00:47:01Do we feel that we, in your thoughts, in each of your scenarios, address whatever you feel might have been said?
00:47:08So, like, if you feel that the fight hasn't been addressed, like, how do you support?
00:47:15If you feel that truth is your biggest thing, then use that in your clothes.
00:47:20Okay.
00:47:20Whatever you feel, whatever you feel that you're still lost on here.
00:47:23Like, for me, I still don't understand how, because I'm truthful, I could still be in pain for that.
00:47:30And sometimes you have to live and learn.
00:47:31So at that point, I might think, hey, this is what I want and that is my truth.
00:47:34But you don't have God coming and saying, hey, for sure, that is your path.
00:47:38And you go down, and the only thing is you could tell yourself, well, I did what I thought was best at the time, but doesn't mean that I'm not in pain now.
00:47:45Well, maybe no pain is totalitarian.
00:47:48Maybe no pain is, but there's a certain level of comfort when you know you are being your most authentic self.
00:47:56There's a certain level of comfort that you can live with.
00:47:57Right, so pause that.
00:47:58So let me come up, because I want, I want, I didn't like the fact that, you know, that you're saying there's no pain.
00:48:04But it isn't as well.
00:48:06See, I have an antidote.
00:48:09I'm saying the pain is, if reality, whoever you think you're wanting,
00:48:14that it don't exist.
00:48:16If you could feel fully like this is the right decision,
00:48:19everything in you is feeling like this is the right decision,
00:48:23then you're moving that confidence, you're moving that assurance that, hey, I'm making the right decision.
00:48:28But it doesn't mean along the way people might be abusing you,
00:48:30and you're feeling you're going to cry sometimes,
00:48:33but you're just assured that this is your path.
00:48:36So you have focus and intent, but it doesn't mean that that,
00:48:39but you're still recording it?
00:48:40Yeah, you're rolling.
00:48:42Sorry, could it continue?
00:48:42So, yeah, so, I mean, this is, this is, this is a, this is reality conversation.
00:48:48So we're going to have these moments of blips and the coffin and all of these things that are cut
00:48:54and these different things that, but I don't, I don't want,
00:48:56I didn't want us to stop the recording because this is, this is, this is what we're talking about.
00:49:00Talk is real, because then it is.
00:49:02Take an editor's suit.
00:49:03Well, we're not, we're not, we're not even editing.
00:49:05This is what people are going to see.
00:49:06What we're saying here, like you're saying that is what they're going to see,
00:49:09because it is, it is real talk.
00:49:12And I don't want us, I don't want what, I don't want us to shy away from those conversations
00:49:17because this is not a, this is, yes, it's a produced piece, but it's not produced conversation.
00:49:22I want this to be real.
00:49:23And if I make a mistake or say something, I want people to hear it because it's part of what we do.
00:49:29So I, I, I still want to come back to that thing about pain.
00:49:33So because making a decision doesn't mean that you're pain free.
00:49:36So the reason why I was saying that honesty cannot lead to pain is because most people choose honesty
00:49:42at the time that's most convenient to them.
00:49:45You break the vase.
00:49:46Only when your mother see the vase, when you say, I'm the one that break the vase.
00:49:50Yes, you were being honest.
00:49:52But in reality, when you broke the vase, you were supposed to go to your mother first and say,
00:49:57mom, this is what I did.
00:49:58So I felt like, I feel like a lot of the times in relationships, we...
00:50:02Pause there.
00:50:03How was that then pain free?
00:50:04Because when I was growing up, your mother now find the vase or your father now find the vase.
00:50:09Now is the pain because you will get that belt.
00:50:12Because again, but we don't know what it, what it's like to actually tell mom before she find the vase.
00:50:19You know, you're going to get your, your, your, your backside peel off when she, she see it.
00:50:24But if you went up before and say, mom, this is what happened.
00:50:28You're still going to get, you don't know that.
00:50:32We never know that.
00:50:33Right.
00:50:33Because most people, and this is what bringing back to my point is that the truth is a path, not a moment.
00:50:40If you are on the path of truth, you have no pain.
00:50:43You're speaking into existence what exactly, how you're feeling every, every step of the way.
00:50:49And your tribe, your woman, the person that you want to be with will find you.
00:50:54And what you're doing is giving them ample amount of opportunity to say...
00:50:58And information.
00:50:59And information.
00:51:00This is not for me right now.
00:51:01Or can we come to a compromise in this particular situation?
00:51:04Because you're giving the truth as you're going along.
00:51:08Not when a moment is here, now is the time to tell the truth.
00:51:13So back to the story that you, the antidote that you give.
00:51:17Kudos to that woman wholeheartedly for actually giving that uncomfortable conversation.
00:51:22That was real difficult to do.
00:51:24But she would have been feeling this way before.
00:51:28She had ample amount of time to say, hey, I'm not satisfied with something.
00:51:32That's a truth.
00:51:33That if she was following the path.
00:51:35So that the pain that was given to her partner at the time would not have felt so jarring.
00:51:39Because it came from left field.
00:51:40Or it's possible.
00:51:42And if you're talking about delusion, she could have been saying this all along.
00:51:45And the partner was ignoring.
00:51:47We read flags we talk about.
00:51:48And so, yes, in both scenarios.
00:51:53But what about the scenario that, you know, sometimes like they say, you're passing on carnival.
00:51:58You're passing, you see a woman, hey boy, you know, we spoke about what they're wearing and all these whining cultures.
00:52:04And you say, oh boy, Bumsy looking good.
00:52:06Are you going to look at your partner and say, hey, that girl Bumsy looking good?
00:52:10I know people who do that.
00:52:11Well, okay, well, there are people that do that.
00:52:13I haven't reached there yet.
00:52:14Exactly.
00:52:14I haven't reached there yet.
00:52:15But I want a presence of using that to say, sometimes, you know, my grandmother used to say, you know, put your brain in gear before you put your mouth in motion.
00:52:26So sometimes there are thoughts.
00:52:28You don't want to have a brain fart, right?
00:52:30And so in that scenario, she's going through what she's going through.
00:52:35Or whoever's going through, or it could be the male in a particular case.
00:52:39And it's a passing moment.
00:52:42You're not going to at every stage of the game go, hey, this is happening, that is happening.
00:52:46Because you might, that relationship may experience degradation before, unnaturally.
00:52:54There's a fight.
00:52:54We're not saying nothing.
00:52:56We're not saying that every single thing that comes to your mind you say.
00:52:59Let me give you a personal example.
00:53:01That time, I see women in things, and I say, hey, she looks, her hips look nice in it.
00:53:06And I would say, I want to see you in that.
00:53:08That's what I would tell my wife.
00:53:09And that's the truth.
00:53:09Because I don't really want that woman.
00:53:11Now, I acknowledge she looks sexy and she looks nice.
00:53:13But I want to see you in that.
00:53:15Why do you try in that?
00:53:16And in that moment, depending on how it was, because sometimes it looked nice, but all right.
00:53:21But depending on how it is, I would tell the truth in that moment.
00:53:23But that's not the quintessential matter.
00:53:24That is utopian in your environment.
00:53:26We would love if men could tell the truth and go and tell the woman, hey, you know,
00:53:31that woman's hips look great.
00:53:33I'd love to see you in that.
00:53:34But that's not the reality of a man looking at a woman.
00:53:36Why do you have to tell the woman in the first place?
00:53:38I don't understand.
00:53:38Why do you happen on that?
00:53:39Why do you have to tell the woman in the first place?
00:53:41It's an internal thought.
00:53:42You think they don't have the same internal thoughts?
00:53:43No, but you're going to look, though.
00:53:44Nobody's saying you.
00:53:45Let the man talk.
00:53:47You think your girl don't look at a man and say, wait, wait, he looking real fast.
00:53:50Yes.
00:53:51You want to hear that?
00:53:52I don't want to hear it.
00:53:52Why not?
00:53:53Maybe you look.
00:53:53That's fine.
00:53:54You look.
00:53:54Just don't tell me.
00:53:55I don't want to know that.
00:53:56I'm like, hey, look how far I'm going to fall into your tight end.
00:54:00Everybody have the honesty because my wife comes in.
00:54:02Hey, it had a man.
00:54:03He look good in this thing.
00:54:04I think you look good in it.
00:54:05Let me audit now.
00:54:07All right.
00:54:07She finds something.
00:54:08Look, that's the honest part of it.
00:54:10And here I see.
00:54:11It's how you're phrasing it to make it sound like, you know, I feel you should audit.
00:54:16I mean, don't go on.
00:54:16I call a ****.
00:54:18I roll.
00:54:18I roll with it.
00:54:19I call a ****.
00:54:21Why?
00:54:21Because really, truly, you're looking and you're telling yourself, hey, that fella
00:54:25has some abs.
00:54:27Look at that ****.
00:54:28You can't call a ****.
00:54:29And coming out to say.
00:54:31Because I exist and I sit here.
00:54:33You should wear that.
00:54:33You're not looking like that man.
00:54:36How that man looking, you putting that on, not looking the same.
00:54:41In my reality, that has happened way too often, trust me, right?
00:54:44So I'm not going through that.
00:54:46But here, what I'm hearing from you, if I'm not hearing correctly, is that the truth
00:54:53is supposed to absolve you from pain, right?
00:54:57Let me finish and then you return.
00:54:58That's what Naila says.
00:54:59I disagree.
00:55:00And I disagree that the truth doesn't absolve you from pain because the truth is the truth.
00:55:04If I wanted to thief all the sweeties from home when I was a child, the truth is I wanted
00:55:11the sweeties, right?
00:55:12And there are consequences to me stealing the sweeties, right?
00:55:15Now, in my mind, I could say, you know what?
00:55:17I don't want to get no licks that I want, right?
00:55:20But then the reality is it could be something else.
00:55:22So let me use that with the relationships.
00:55:24You tell the truth because either way, that is your truth.
00:55:28That is your truth, how you feel in any moment.
00:55:30You have the person's truth.
00:55:32The person, I'm using Naila, the person can either decide, you know what?
00:55:36This is how my partner feels.
00:55:38I don't want to be part of it or I want to be part of it or can handle half of it.
00:55:42Because we could, when we're holding on to a lie, we're building the foundation on sand.
00:55:49We're not building the foundation on a rock.
00:55:51So even if it's 30 years into our relationship or marriage, if it was a lie in the first
00:55:55place, it will fall apart eventually.
00:55:58That is one.
00:55:59Two is there's a psychologist named Alfred Adler and he have a concept called the life
00:56:04lie, right?
00:56:05And we craft this life lie when we want to manipulate and control everything around us.
00:56:12So we lie or omit because we want to control how people react, how scenarios happen, et
00:56:18cetera, et cetera.
00:56:19But the truth is we don't have that power.
00:56:22Again, always a very rich and powerful conversation.
00:56:26And I think we're going into what we may talk about in other episodes, because there's
00:56:31a difference between all some lines.
00:56:32There are similarities, but there's also differences in telling the truth and living your truth.
00:56:40Okay.
00:56:40Right?
00:56:41As Nail pointed out, truth is a path and not a moment.
00:56:44But moments could be part of your path.
00:56:47So there's a whole scenario around that.
00:56:49But I want us to close sharing what we've learned today and I'm sure we've all learned
00:56:54on and responding to the narrative that was set before us today and the topic, which is
00:57:04should a man, should a man fight for a romantic relationship?
00:57:11Short answer.
00:57:13Yes.
00:57:14Right.
00:57:14And again, you know, for me, the relationship means you're fighting for the person.
00:57:20The relationship is the communication style between two people.
00:57:24That's what a relationship is.
00:57:26So as the people evolve, the relationship is evolving.
00:57:30So the fight is really for the person.
00:57:32And I just want to just end or close with most fellows, and I know, I'm almost sure that all
00:57:39of us went through the situation where we was in a relationship.
00:57:42We know that the relationship coming to an end.
00:57:45We don't want to be the one to break up with her.
00:57:47So what we do, we kind of drag our feet a little bit and we do real dumb shit and just
00:57:54trying to get her to break up with us because somehow in our mind, we think that that's
00:57:58us doing them a favor.
00:58:01Right?
00:58:02Fellas, let's stop doing that.
00:58:04Because essentially that is us now choosing the moment or let me retract that.
00:58:09We are not walking along the path of truth.
00:58:11So that's my little two cents on that.
00:58:14I would say, I have the same answer, which is a yes.
00:58:18You should fight, but a fight has to have rules.
00:58:22And one of the rules I think is both of you all have to want it.
00:58:26You can't be fighting alone because there's a losing battle.
00:58:29And another rule that I see a lot of times, and I was telling a friend of mine this very
00:58:33recently who was in a situation, a next rule is you have to have a timeline.
00:58:38As clinical as it may sound, you have to give yourself the opportunity to say, okay,
00:58:42well, this is not going to happen.
00:58:44But to go on for years and years or months and months in that zone trying to fight, it's
00:58:49not healthy.
00:58:50It becomes very toxic for you, for you all.
00:58:53And maybe there's a different version later on that you need to start working towards.
00:58:58Yeah?
00:59:00Your answer, I wanted to close off.
00:59:02So I'm just going to give my two cents and allow you to put it all into context for all
00:59:06of us and summarize with your chest of nuggets that I know you'd bring.
00:59:12And I just share the fact that, you know, as Shane had mentioned earlier, for those of
00:59:20you who don't know Shane, he's behind the camera, that one of the things you talk about,
00:59:26you know, when we talk about soulmates and we talk about, you know, where you are also
00:59:30in life, your journey might be their journey or your journey may have started at that particular
00:59:35point, but they took us side street somewhere.
00:59:37And you have to know that, you really have to know when your story, when the story is
00:59:42finished and there's no sequel to come.
00:59:45You know, you could, and then you might be looking back at the prequel to then determine
00:59:50how did we get here?
00:59:51But then that has to be when you're developing for another story.
00:59:55And at that point, there's no, there's nothing here.
00:59:59The four of us could tell you with regards to how to deal with that pain, because that
01:00:03pain is yours.
01:00:04That pain is real when it happens.
01:00:07And it's just how, how you grieve is just to really take that time to figure out what
01:00:14you do next.
01:00:15What is my next step?
01:00:17Because that's what you're in control of.
01:00:18You're not in control of what happened, because that's already happened.
01:00:22What is past this prologue.
01:00:23It is what can I do next to avoid that happening again?
01:00:27And to just, to, to live in that moment and to do it in a positive way, because as you
01:00:35might have mentioned in those stages, those stages might lead to violence.
01:00:39They might lead to so many other things as you're trying to arrest that pain and that
01:00:45grief that you're going through.
01:00:46But none of those things in hindsight, none of those things are going to change what has
01:00:52happened.
01:00:52And it's just a matter of seeing that.
01:00:54I know it's, I know it comes down to logic in many ways, but it really does assist as
01:01:01you start to arrest that pain to ensure that your story going forward isn't further contaminated
01:01:07by your behaviors at that particular point.
01:01:09Thanks.
01:01:11Robert, thank you very much for that.
01:01:14Should men, women fight for a relationship?
01:01:17I would say it shouldn't be a fight.
01:01:19It shouldn't be begging.
01:01:20It should be an agreement between two individuals based on truth.
01:01:25So we have a stage relationship, which even if there's no relationship, face the reality
01:01:30of how things are and then move forward.
01:01:33Don't suppress any of your emotions.
01:01:35If you do feel anger, you do feel depression, you do feel sadness, express those feelings.
01:01:40But remember, you can't force anything or make anybody do anything that they don't want
01:01:45to do.
01:01:46This has been Manhood.
01:01:47My name is Johansi Ayurike.
01:01:49This is Robert Dumas.
01:01:51This is Shane Ramjit.
01:01:53And Nile Meknesh.
01:01:54Thank you very much for listening.
01:02:02Manhood.
01:02:02Brought to you in part by Reboot Sports Drink.