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00:00:00Manhood, brought you in part by Reboot, Superfarm and Solomon's Bespoke.
00:00:10Welcome to yet another episode of Manhood where we always aim to be better as brothers.
00:00:16And one thing I just want to make sure that's lucidly clear, we're not speaking on behalf of all men, we are few men speaking to all men.
00:00:25And one of the topics that really is going to take some time here today and a lot of understanding, and I'm sure I'm going to be very pensive throughout this discussion, is this topic.
00:00:37Do men display masculinity among men different to how they display masculinity among women?
00:00:47Let me repeat that.
00:00:49Do men display masculinity different among men to how they display their masculinity among women?
00:00:57So we're going to go straight into, to my right, Johan Teiudike, behavior change consultant or specialist.
00:01:03To his right, really happy to have you, Keron Niles, lecturer at the University of the West Indies.
00:01:09Some may know him as the third member of Freetown Collective.
00:01:12He's the man behind the scenes.
00:01:13And to his right, KG, music producer.
00:01:18So, gentlemen, do men display masculinity different among men than women?
00:01:24So, like, basically, if a woman was here now, would we...
00:01:27Men's had to smile at her stuff.
00:01:28It's had to smile, yeah, because it's almost like we're introspective and realize we're guilty of it.
00:01:33But I don't know if guilty is the correct word.
00:01:35Maybe that's wrong word, I agree.
00:01:36But it is true because when you're among men, so I could say when you're among your brethrens, it could be different when you're among men who you don't really have a close relationship to versus you're among women who you're related to and then even women who you may want to impress in some way.
00:01:57Right?
00:01:58So you would show masculinity.
00:02:00Now, I think, and personally, right, I could, and I think, you know, I'm with other men because sometimes there's no one, a man, a wife, on the phone.
00:02:08You know, or you know, a man talking to a girl versus a man.
00:02:12Even something simple as, well, I talked to my friend last night.
00:02:15It's not a man he talked more.
00:02:17Because if it was a man, I talked to my brother and I talked to my boy.
00:02:20So, and even the way they say friend, the way you say friend, you know something different.
00:02:24You're saying partner.
00:02:25Yeah.
00:02:26Yeah.
00:02:26Right?
00:02:26So, I think there is some distinct differences.
00:02:30My first thought is, is it authentic?
00:02:34That's what I do in the introspection for myself.
00:02:36This is exactly what I was, you know, from hearing you say that, immediately I asked myself, is the topic really, are we ever being our authentic self?
00:02:44Right.
00:02:45You know, are we just, are we chameleons?
00:02:47Do we change with the environment?
00:02:49You know, so I'm, because if you've now broken it down from, apart from masculinity among men and among women, you've now broken it down to even further subdivisions and subcategories into how do we appear even amongst men, that masculinity is different.
00:03:05So, if I know you, I might free up a lot more.
00:03:10And if I don't know you, I'm pretending to be someone I'm not, or I'm playing to the room.
00:03:16So, if we're doing that in several areas, are we ever really being our authentic selves?
00:03:22Who really is Johanse?
00:03:23Who's Karen?
00:03:24You know, with the real Karen, please stand up.
00:03:26It has layers and it has nuance, right?
00:03:29So, when I was in university learning psychology, they used to teach us about backstage behavior and front stage behavior.
00:03:37And backstage behavior is who you really is now.
00:03:40Like, in your voice form now is the dirty room in your house that you don't really want to show nobody.
00:03:45Front stage behavior is who you want people to believe you are.
00:03:49It's who you display as the finished product now.
00:03:52Like, and it is intrinsically performative.
00:03:55And even in that, how I perform or how I display myself front stage for a female, particularly as a man that is attracted to a woman,
00:04:06totally different to when I with my bedroom and even front stage different and backstage very different.
00:04:13You understand?
00:04:13Like, how you show somebody who you really is.
00:04:16You understand?
00:04:17Like, when you're inviting somebody in, that's totally different.
00:04:20And what makes this Caribbean, Twin Islands so special and so unique is we are a festival economy in some ways now.
00:04:29So, there was a theorist that said that in festivals, people often mask to unmask, which means they put on their masks to be who they really want to be now.
00:04:38So, every carnival, you're putting on all these costumes so you can really free up yourself.
00:04:43But the free up version of yourself is who you really want to be.
00:04:46You understand?
00:04:46So, you hit the streets and you're lacquerie, you're wild.
00:04:50You're really, really.
00:04:51You're really, really, you understand?
00:04:52You're going crazy.
00:04:53But that's really you.
00:04:54Like, you really want to be that way.
00:04:56But from Monday to Friday, you have to wear a little suit and tie.
00:05:01You have to be presented because the society says this is how you have to be.
00:05:06So, Kieran, you're conforming to society.
00:05:09And a lot of times, you have to be able to survive or to excel in a particular environment.
00:05:15Sometimes.
00:05:15I mean, nobody's saying you don't have to be your authentic self.
00:05:17But sometimes that alter ego is, it could be a form of protection.
00:05:24It could be so many other things to hide the real self.
00:05:30And I ask myself, people say sometimes, even whether you're 30 or 40, they say,
00:05:37you still don't know who you are, boy?
00:05:39And I ask myself, like a book, the page keeps turning.
00:05:42Life still keeps happening.
00:05:43So, do we ever really know, do we ever really self-actualize?
00:05:46And so, the question is, am I being my authentic self?
00:05:50Do I know who authentic self is?
00:05:53Because carnival comes, I might take a drink, get slightly inebriated,
00:05:58and that allows me for a certain amount of reverence to wele, wele, as we say.
00:06:05Because I have, at that point, my inhibitions are lost due to a little rum.
00:06:12You know, we are a social environment of what you're drinking.
00:06:15And so, the question comes down to, am I actually saying, this is not me?
00:06:23Or is this me?
00:06:25When you really could be saying, you don't know?
00:06:27You still don't know, you know, because I've had people who are still performing in carnival.
00:06:31They're still performing what people think they should look like in a carnival,
00:06:36in a fet on Monday and Tuesday.
00:06:38Pressure to drink, what kind of thing.
00:06:39They're still not being themselves.
00:06:41So, what you're asking yourself is a good question.
00:06:43And the nuance part of it is, you see, we're talking about self, but we spoke about masculinity now.
00:06:50So, it's not just KG, it's not just Kieran or Johansi, but KG, Johansi, Kieran, Robert, as a man,
00:06:57as displaying first what we think, because even masculinity is nuanced, you know.
00:07:02Yes, we could look at a dictionary meaning.
00:07:05Yes, we might have a certain close consensus of what masculinity is in the West, in San Fernando, in Chogonas.
00:07:15But even that, we have different opinions on it.
00:07:19And we may, Robert and I may intersect with nine things, but one thing you think is a man, I mightn't think.
00:07:24I mightn't think.
00:07:25I'm not going to ask her, like, what does it come down to now?
00:07:28Like, what does masculinity really come down to?
00:07:31Because different cultures, you will realize that men look at masculinity so differently now.
00:07:36Like, some people might grow up in a home with a father who is very masculine, but he don't promote violence.
00:07:42You know, he will always tell his son, if somebody hits you, go and tell the teacher.
00:07:44And then we'll have another father who might go in the school and protect his son, like a masculine father.
00:07:50But another masculine man might be like, masculinity is also intelligence now.
00:07:56You know, that's running to violence.
00:07:57So, I guess that, what is masculinity?
00:07:59Well, doesn't it also depend upon society and community?
00:08:02I gave you some real examples.
00:08:04For me, examples.
00:08:05So, I don't really drink.
00:08:06I drink alcohol, right?
00:08:07And also say men, real men.
00:08:09Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:08:10You don't really drink or you don't drink often?
00:08:13I don't, well, both.
00:08:14I don't, so, I will go into a space.
00:08:16Not many people know this, right?
00:08:18I went into a space once and somebody was just like, do you want anything to drink?
00:08:21And I was just like, I don't drink.
00:08:22And they said, you should try this.
00:08:23And I tried it.
00:08:24And I was just like, this doesn't taste like alcohol.
00:08:26It tastes good.
00:08:26It was berries.
00:08:27And I was just like, I remember once I went into a space by a bedroom of mine.
00:08:31And I say, well, do you think that actually tastes good in this whole thing is berries?
00:08:35You say, but that's a woman drink.
00:08:36That's a girl drink.
00:08:36I was like, yeah, yes, you know what I mean?
00:08:37That's a girl drink.
00:08:38And then I went somewhere else.
00:08:39And because I don't drink, I was just like, well, you're smarter.
00:08:42And the whole place crack.
00:08:43I was like, that's what children, you know what I mean?
00:08:46That's not a, and it's like, you're a big hardback man.
00:08:49You understand?
00:08:50And so, you know what I mean?
00:08:52So you're not displaying the qualities of masculinity.
00:08:54I now have to perform and I said, I mean, I have to be like, okay, but you know, where's
00:08:58the drink that will make my hair stand up now?
00:09:01You know what I mean?
00:09:01Where's the goat weed?
00:09:03You know what I mean?
00:09:04Take a rude boy or a white talk or something like that or punch it.
00:09:09Well, you see, I've often, since especially manhood starts, tried to figure out what really
00:09:16is masculinity, right?
00:09:18Because, and then where's femininity?
00:09:22And then versus who am I?
00:09:25Because I think now there's a clear separation, something even between, now it's a difference
00:09:32between man, woman, masculine, feminine, and then somewhere between who I am.
00:09:38Because the only thing, the only conclusion I am coming up with is, where's a man?
00:09:44Where's masculinity?
00:09:46True, truth.
00:09:47I was just going to say, but then that is not a masculine thing.
00:09:50That is, anybody does a human thing now.
00:09:53But we have had, Johan say, I mean, we've, what, I mean, it's over 50 or 60 episodes.
00:09:59So we've, and we've had a lot of conversations where we've asked guests on the show, you know,
00:10:05what is a man to them?
00:10:07And a lot of times, if you were to summarize that and to put it, you know, truth is a huge
00:10:12part of it as one of the traits of being masculine.
00:10:15Because without that, then you're not really being masculine.
00:10:17But when you say truth, why exactly?
00:10:18So, so being true to, being true to oneself.
00:10:22So you're not, you're like, if you're like, one of his favorites, if, if you're like another
00:10:28woman or if you cheat on a woman, you're supposed to see, you're supposed to confess it.
00:10:32I didn't say that in its entirety, eh?
00:10:34Right?
00:10:35You see the semantics, you see the semantics in its entirety.
00:10:38In its entirety.
00:10:39Right?
00:10:39In its entirety.
00:10:40Just like, you don't drink often.
00:10:42I don't drink often.
00:10:43I don't drink often.
00:10:44I don't drink at all, actually.
00:10:45Being true to, being true to oneself, meaning that you're being authentic, you're being who
00:10:49you are with no apologies.
00:10:51So what if a man on the other side, where he don't like women, he like men, which I
00:10:57say, but he's being true to that, is that still being masculine?
00:11:00Well, notice, notice I said that being truthful or being true to oneself is one of the traits.
00:11:06It doesn't, doesn't mean that that makes you masculine.
00:11:09Right, right.
00:11:09Now, another part of masculinity in, in, in that authenticity is ownership, ownership
00:11:14of your own actions and, and being, being unafraid to, to not, not only justify, not, not
00:11:22that you have to justify, but, um, to, to stand, to stand, it all comes down to truth, to stand
00:11:29in that truth and to own what happens and not, and not live in victim mentality.
00:11:34Yeah.
00:11:34Right.
00:11:34And then we could come down to other traits, which are coming down to Maslow, Maslow's
00:11:39hierarchy of needs where, you know, the person needs to provide security, um, hunt, you
00:11:45know, it is, there's a culmination of things, but I think what it really boils down to is
00:11:50truth and ownership of oneself and not living, living in victim mentality.
00:11:56So wait, wait, so let me break this down a little bit, cause I'm trying to understand
00:11:59where you're coming from, right?
00:12:00So I went to fix my car two months ago, or yeah, a month and a half ago.
00:12:06And the man and them, the man started off talking, one of the men and the guards started
00:12:11talking about how we get hit in school and he never let anybody hit him again.
00:12:14Right.
00:12:15And I just say, you're going to hit anybody.
00:12:16And he's just like, I said, well, I mean, you're going to hit anybody.
00:12:21And he's just like, and somehow it ended up on hitting woman.
00:12:24You know what I mean?
00:12:25And I was just like, you can't do that ever.
00:12:28And he's just like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
00:12:30He say, and he watched me and he say, oh, so she just be on top and you just be underneath.
00:12:35You understand?
00:12:35And just straight off the bat.
00:12:37You understand?
00:12:38So the conversation kind of went from just talking about him getting hit as a child.
00:12:44To the impression that you are f***ing man.
00:12:46To the impression that I don't mind.
00:12:47So because I say you can't ever hit woman.
00:12:51Because I went on national TV once and said, never lay a hand on a female.
00:12:57Like walk away if you have to, get out of the house if you need to.
00:13:01And I've had men come to me and say, but you don't understand.
00:13:04You don't understand.
00:13:05But they will never say it's in the presence of another woman.
00:13:07That's what they.
00:13:08That's what we talk about.
00:13:09That's what we talk about.
00:13:10The performance.
00:13:11The performance.
00:13:12How we perform around other men.
00:13:14They will never say this usually around.
00:13:17If you have women in this space, they're going to be a kid.
00:13:19You don't understand them women and them just look for their thing.
00:13:22I'm not saying that women don't provoke men.
00:13:24And this is usually me and men only in the room.
00:13:28When there's men only, I can say, I understand men just get provoked.
00:13:32But you can't tell me that you are a grown man saying that, yeah, I can do this and I can do that.
00:13:39And you can't control self.
00:13:41You understand, which is why you're talking about to yourself, it won't be true.
00:13:45But you also need to be in full control of this, of this vessel.
00:13:49You understand?
00:13:49But what you're assuming is when the men say they're hitting a woman, that they're not in control of themselves enough.
00:13:54Right.
00:13:55Because it have, I gave two examples, right, of men I've worked with.
00:13:59One who lost control is, I get provoked, so I just react.
00:14:03Right.
00:14:03And I hit her in my reaction.
00:14:06Then I have men who say, I'm making sure.
00:14:09And show her exactly what is going on.
00:14:10And so the lash, right, was controlled and premeditated.
00:14:15Right.
00:14:16Right.
00:14:16So, you see, I put it in that way because when we get nuanced with authenticity, authenticity don't really have a moral code.
00:14:24Right.
00:14:25Authenticity is who you are.
00:14:26Right.
00:14:27Right.
00:14:27So, if a man say, my moral code is I will never hit a woman, then you are, you're staying true to your moral code.
00:14:34And the next man will say, I'm not allowing nobody to hit me, man or woman.
00:14:38That's your moral code.
00:14:40And you hear that more often than not, I'm just not allowing nobody to hit me.
00:14:43By the time you hit me, I've heard people say my eyes roll back, I go into survivor mode, and I defend myself.
00:14:50Man or woman.
00:14:51Yeah.
00:14:51Man or woman.
00:14:52It doesn't, because you even see it, there's a meme that I was looking up to yesterday where a child hit the mother.
00:14:59And you could see the mother, like, they raise the hand, but not that she was going to hit the child.
00:15:04But it's the instant reaction, like somebody hit you in your face, and you go into, it's a trigger, and you lash out.
00:15:12And that's what I'm saying, so I understand what you're saying about being out of control at that moment, but then are you repentant afterwards?
00:15:20And a lot of times it could be genuine at that point.
00:15:22But he's also saying that men, he's talking to men who are using the hitting as a form of animal conditioning, essentially, or conditioning their partner so that their partner knows the lines.
00:15:34Their partner knows that if they cross a certain line, they're setting a boundary.
00:15:38But I just messed up.
00:15:39They're using violence to set a boundary, you understand?
00:15:42And this is a good segue into music.
00:15:45I'll show you that scene.
00:15:47We, Freetown, went into a school week.
00:15:50The school had some issues with violence.
00:15:52You understand?
00:15:53And they wanted us to come and talk about violence.
00:15:55And they said, these kids just listened to Trinibad, right?
00:15:58And so they wanted us to come and talk about why Trinibad is bad.
00:16:02You understand?
00:16:03And usually, let me be honest, I think it's safe to say the Trinibad artists are predominantly male, right?
00:16:10Predominantly.
00:16:11And they wanted us to come and talk.
00:16:12They wanted Muhammad and Lou, two men, to come and talk about why Trinibad is bad.
00:16:15This is what we did.
00:16:16We went and took a Trinibad artist, and they sang a song with us in the school, right?
00:16:21And the song was a positive song.
00:16:27And then we asked the artist some questions in front of the students.
00:16:30We asked them, how do you feel about your mom?
00:16:34Like, you have a good friend?
00:16:36You're a city good friend?
00:16:37And do you always carry a weapon?
00:16:39Like, you're always packing?
00:16:40And the artist was just like, and do you use the word b**** ever?
00:16:44And the artist was just like, I do ever use the word b****.
00:16:46I love my mom with all my heart.
00:16:48She's my queen.
00:16:49I do ever hit woman.
00:16:50I don't own a weapon.
00:16:52And we're not out there shooting people.
00:16:54And you can see the eyes of these kids.
00:16:56And so I was the person collecting the data.
00:16:57Eyes of the kids.
00:16:58As the kids started to open, they started to look at him differently, you know?
00:17:02So, and I collected the survey forms after, and they were just like, we thought this was real out here.
00:17:06We thought that they were really living this life.
00:17:08We thought, and I wonder, what is it in somebody that makes them feel that it's okay to use violence to set a boundary, you know?
00:17:16And in my mind, it's what you see modeled.
00:17:19And it can be modeled from a parent, modeled from another person you look up to.
00:17:23But also, it can also be in the music that you're listening to, and you feel like, well, this is what I hear.
00:17:29This is what I see in my community.
00:17:31This is what I'm hearing.
00:17:32And this is what I'm going to live for.
00:17:33And they literally thought that this man was out here.
00:17:36First of all, he was always armed.
00:17:38If anybody said anything, he would shoot them in the face.
00:17:41And I was reading these responses, and these kids are just like, none of it is real.
00:17:45It's just for money.
00:17:46And the man said, listen, I need to eat.
00:17:48This is what makes any money.
00:17:50It's stereotyped.
00:17:51And again, Karen, that's a conversation I think we've had several times because, you know, one of the pet peeves I know that Trini Bad artists have on producers is the fact that we go off on dance hall, right?
00:18:04And one of the analogies that I would hear with regards to that is that, yeah, we go off on dance hall and it's the same violence.
00:18:10But because Trini Bad is singing violence, but it's one that we could relate with because it's home.
00:18:16It's like, you know, are we, you know, is wanting to incite violence or speak about it, but it's not because I know those streets and I know these people and I know these different things.
00:18:24And I might call a name even in singing it and that could get me into trouble.
00:18:28Oh, go off is a good go off, I mean, because I thought go off meant like we decry dance hall.
00:18:35So you're not saying that we say bad things about dance hall.
00:18:37No, no, no, we go off on it as if we grew up on it.
00:18:39We love it.
00:18:40We grew up on it.
00:18:41So I want to bring it back to when we talk about the masculinity because you, you know, when you said it's a performance, you know, there's a couple of things that, you know, people say that even in, you know, when we see some people parading in front of any tourists come down.
00:18:58Especially, I know we need to go to a break.
00:19:00So just to say that, you know, there's a thing called the peacock, peacock mentality.
00:19:04Right.
00:19:04So you see, you see a nice, you know, they say a Caucasian and all of a sudden you see people puff up their chest and they start to do a dance and a, and a, and a, and a, and a, and all these different things because they, they parade in for somebody.
00:19:17Right.
00:19:17So I'm saying that the performance, the performance in front of a woman, right.
00:19:23And, and you see a performance when to a man, yes, there are differences.
00:19:27And yes, we do behave, even among men, we behave differently in terms of that, those levels of masculinity.
00:19:34Because if I don't know you, I'm coming into an environment that, listen, I, I have to, I had to check that the, the, the, not the egos in the room, the testosterone in the room.
00:19:43If I come into an environment that I, I don't, I mightn't feel that safe at the moment.
00:19:47I need a posture, you know, and, and you put up, you put up a particular thing until such point that you could come down and start to know your name and realize there's cool people, you know, trying to cut my throat.
00:19:58And, and I mean that figuratively and, and, and, and literally.
00:20:02And there's, and there's so, there's so many other things with, with regards to why we behave.
00:20:08But wait, wait, wait, wait, so there's just a kind of, there's a kind of, to, to, the reason why I made the point before was because of that word performance.
00:20:16The same thing that drives an artist to perform in a certain way, an artist knows his demographic.
00:20:20Yeah.
00:20:20I know my demographic too.
00:20:22Right, right.
00:20:22The same thing that drives an artist to, I don't care what, what genre it is.
00:20:24It could be a gospel artist.
00:20:26A gospel artist will never curse in public, even if they curse at home.
00:20:29Even if they curse at home.
00:20:30Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, because they have to perform.
00:20:31That's like a rasta.
00:20:32Yeah, just like a, yeah.
00:20:33KFC, and you know he's eat meat.
00:20:35Yeah, you know what I mean?
00:20:36KFC for nobody to see him.
00:20:37Exactly, we perform a certain way based on who we think our audience is, you understand?
00:20:43So, rare, rare, rich conversation.
00:20:45That is actually very interesting for me.
00:20:46We're coming back, we're coming back with our point because the other, the other one is, you know when we talk about your audience and going to kids in schools.
00:20:53Because another thing is, sometimes you're, sometimes you're taught by your same father or, or an uncle or anyone.
00:21:01Listen, let me hit before I'm hit.
00:21:03So if you see somebody coming at you, clock them first.
00:21:07Yeah.
00:21:07So that you, you set those boundaries.
00:21:09So as you mentioned, what you call it, violence, violence, boundaries?
00:21:13Yeah, using, using violence to set boundaries.
00:21:15To set boundaries.
00:21:16And that's taught from an early childhood.
00:21:18But we take a short break, we have a lot more to talk about.
00:21:20Yeah, man, welcome back to manhood.
00:21:33That was actually a very interesting point, bro.
00:21:36I never, like, see it in that way.
00:21:38There's no sense of, even me in the Trinibad industry.
00:21:42I mean, me and Robert and Johan, they talk about this so many times with the way how we grew up as inner city youths and that kind of vibes.
00:21:50And we always had to defend ourselves.
00:21:52But with the music, now I never look at it in a way where we were literally performing because of the demographic who was listening to us now.
00:22:29It is, you know, we are basically men.
00:22:32So I think, and it's just my view, I think that all men playing on fronts, basically.
00:22:40Masculinity is not real.
00:22:41Probably in some aspects.
00:22:43Yeah, some aspects.
00:22:44Even today, I think we were having a discussion about something you said.
00:22:48With the WhatsApp messages.
00:22:48Right.
00:22:49And he was saying, yeah, I have to because I don't put pleasantries in WhatsApp, right?
00:22:54So I just tell you what I want.
00:22:56So let me put it in the context.
00:22:58I will just say I'm messing, but KG's hit me the same thing sometimes.
00:23:01You know, who's he guess?
00:23:03Topic.
00:23:03Right, right.
00:23:04And I'd be like, hey.
00:23:06Good morning.
00:23:07Good morning.
00:23:09No kind of small talk, you know.
00:23:11You're just straight in there.
00:23:12No kind of manhood.
00:23:13So Robert was saying, what you have to do and should do, and I was saying, but me doing
00:23:19that, me putting pleasantries is not my authentic self.
00:23:22Because for me, a message is an efficient way of communication.
00:23:26So good morning.
00:23:27How are you going on those things?
00:23:28When if you talk to a woman, you know you're going to talk pleasant.
00:23:31You're going to be like, hi, hi, you know.
00:23:32But no.
00:23:33Even for that, no.
00:23:35Somebody don't know that well.
00:23:37You talk to a woman.
00:23:38If it's a new client.
00:23:40If it's a new client.
00:23:42I would say greetings, right?
00:23:45And then say what it is going on.
00:23:47You would say the word greetings?
00:23:49Yeah, I'd write greetings, right?
00:23:50And then put it in.
00:23:52But once I do that once, I do it again.
00:23:56Let's talk about the family just for greetings.
00:23:59It's a coaching session.
00:24:01We hear as mentors to all be better as brothers.
00:24:03So authentically, instead of going through good morning, good afternoon, figuring out if it's afternoon or good day.
00:24:09Even hi might be better.
00:24:11Nah, I don't like hi.
00:24:12You see, when somebody say hi, I don't answer, you know.
00:24:14I just say blessings.
00:24:15But I don't know what I mean.
00:24:16I just say blessings.
00:24:16Whichever, we're better than greetings.
00:24:18Now, you see, all of those things I'm saying is I being my authentic self.
00:24:22Now, some people might like it.
00:24:24You being your authentic self is saying good morning, good afternoon, et cetera.
00:24:28Each man.
00:24:30No, no, wait.
00:24:30Hold on.
00:24:30Hold on.
00:24:31Like wheel and turn, right?
00:24:34Wheel and come again.
00:24:36Is that being my authentic self?
00:24:38Because as KG said, are we ever really being our authentic self?
00:24:41I don't think so.
00:24:42I have learned, it's learned behavior and in the environment that we're in, sometimes I just want to go, you're coming out.
00:24:52And then you should do that.
00:24:54But again, how it is perceived and received may impact the end result, which is not desirable to me.
00:25:01Right.
00:25:01So you start to learn a certain behavior that, oh, listen, in this environment, saying good morning, giving someone a greeting.
00:25:09Now, what I disagree with where my authenticity comes in is I'm not telling you a morning.
00:25:14If I'm going to tell you something, I'm going to say good morning.
00:25:16I'm going to say it in a voice that I want you to have a good morning.
00:25:19I'm genuinely in my authentic self hoping that you have a good morning.
00:25:23I don't wish bad on anybody, you know.
00:25:25However, is it at everything that you do, sometimes you just be like, darn, I do even, which is why a lot of people don't even take phone calls now.
00:25:34It's all about WhatsApp messages or voice.
00:25:36Because bottom line, you don't want to talk to nobody.
00:25:40You don't want to be going through that small talk on the phone.
00:25:43Exactly.
00:25:44But being a man is also being intelligent, as I say.
00:25:48So if Robert messaged me, he would meet you and say good morning because it's man-to-man talking now.
00:25:53You know, but you don't really want.
00:25:57And that's why I say if you don't want to do something.
00:25:59Listen, listen.
00:26:00On a physiological level.
00:26:03Every time you do something you don't want to do, you send a stress signal to your nervous system.
00:26:08I believe that, bro.
00:26:10Right?
00:26:10So then, that's why we men are dead so young.
00:26:14Yeah, he's stressed not to do something.
00:26:14Because we stress not to do something.
00:26:16We're lying and doing things you don't want to do.
00:26:18So every time you write a pleasantry that he didn't really want to say.
00:26:23But Robert, say he want to, eh?
00:26:24Sometimes, not all the times.
00:26:26So the times he don't want to and he do it.
00:26:27I might want to write it, but I wish it.
00:26:29You know, he's killing himself slowly.
00:26:31And like all of us men.
00:26:33Sorry, let me add a little bit more.
00:26:36Because you remember how I said that everybody performing?
00:26:38That's not necessarily a negative thing.
00:26:40Not necessarily.
00:26:41And hear about it.
00:26:42Because you remember how I said I have front stage and backstage behavior?
00:26:45People, if everyone was to see my backstage, I don't know if anybody would do that to me.
00:26:52You understand?
00:26:53Like people need to kind of, when people are being presented, there's a certain thing.
00:26:58Like if you walked in the room and you didn't know I was a university lecturer,
00:27:04your response to me would be different.
00:27:06If I get introduced to you as a manager at Freetown, you're going to respond to me differently
00:27:09than if somebody told you I was a university lecturer.
00:27:11I see it all, all, all the time.
00:27:15So what?
00:27:16Wait, wait, wait.
00:27:18I want to say that's not a negative or positive.
00:27:21Because, for example, I mean, you know Freetown, my boys, my partners.
00:27:26But what I say to you is I would be more open to conversation with you here in your lecture
00:27:34and what you lecture about.
00:27:36That, for me, I'm more interested at that point.
00:27:40It depends where you are.
00:27:41So saying it as if, I just want to clarify that saying Freetown versus lecture doesn't mean
00:27:46that people will treat you better because you're Freetown.
00:27:48It's not better or worse thing.
00:27:49It's just different.
00:27:50It's just different.
00:27:51And the environment matters.
00:27:52So let me give you an even deeper context, right?
00:27:55So I went to Batata a second, they come to school, right?
00:27:59And Batata a second, they come to school.
00:28:00In form one, somebody was stabbed outside my classroom.
00:28:04And in, I mean, I have stories upon stories upon stories about weapons being pulled, people
00:28:09getting, there was fights all the time.
00:28:11And a lot of violence, a lot of violence, right?
00:28:14And how that shapes you, like when I got into fights in the school, how that shapes your
00:28:21interactions, completely different.
00:28:23Like even how you try to present yourself to make sure you're not looking weak in the
00:28:28school now.
00:28:29Yeah, yeah.
00:28:29First, I went to Georgia for form six.
00:28:32Now in Batata, and I love Batata.
00:28:35In Batata, it's like a comprehensive.
00:28:36I remember being in form three and man was talking about, all my male friends are saying the same
00:28:41thing, if I play football, well enough, I'll be able to repeat in form five.
00:28:45So they're planning to fail in two years.
00:28:48You understand?
00:28:49That's the scene I remember my senior companies.
00:28:51You remember?
00:28:52Straight up.
00:28:53And I remember when I was in form five, all the man was talking about was getting to repeat
00:28:58or finding a girl with a car.
00:29:01You understand?
00:29:01That was the flick.
00:29:03I remember that.
00:29:03When I got to Georgia's, the man and them in form three were saying, if I put in the
00:29:08work, I'm going to get a scholarship.
00:29:09And the whole environment and all the toughness I had learned from Batata, it was almost meaningless.
00:29:16So how I presented myself in Batata was kind of fierce.
00:29:21It was kind of like, it was harder.
00:29:24You understand?
00:29:25But when I went to Georgia's and that had very little value in the environment, I started
00:29:30to change how I presented myself.
00:29:33You understand?
00:29:33And best believe how I present myself in a university setting and how I present myself
00:29:39when I go to a concert to present free time, totally different.
00:29:42And I realized...
00:29:43But you're not stressed.
00:29:43Not all the time.
00:29:44Sometimes it is stressful.
00:29:46And I'm not going to...
00:29:46Let me tell you when it can be stressful.
00:29:48I have to go to sometimes UN meetings, negotiation meetings, and meetings with very senior professors
00:29:55who want to hear what I have to say about the topic.
00:29:57This is how ridiculous it can get in terms of presenting myself, right?
00:30:01Talking about fun to this backstage.
00:30:02If I leave my hair like this...
00:30:03The reason why my hair is like this is because I just came back from a conference.
00:30:06You understand?
00:30:06When I go to a conference and my hair is...
00:30:08And I don't shave.
00:30:09I look older.
00:30:10And I get much less questions and scrutiny of my work.
00:30:13When I cut my hair down, I look a lot younger.
00:30:18If you Google my name, you'll see what I look like when I cut my hair.
00:30:22And people, the questions that I get...
00:30:24Are you sure you know what you're talking about?
00:30:25Do you have evidence about this?
00:30:26It is 10 times as much.
00:30:29I've tested it about 10 times now because I go to conferences all the time.
00:30:33So I realize that how I present myself, the environment matters.
00:30:38So there are societal influences.
00:30:42Where you brought up your environments can shape who you are and what you become.
00:30:47And what you look at as a man.
00:30:49And your outlook as a man.
00:30:51Now, there's two things I want to present.
00:30:53One, I remember Will Smith saying that Will Smith is his alter ego, right?
00:30:58And that he had learned that he wanted...
00:31:01Just like what you said, those fellas are ready two years ahead for football schools.
00:31:06And there are others that are trying to get into university.
00:31:08He had already presented that, listen, I need to be this look.
00:31:12I need to speak this way.
00:31:14I need to laugh at this moment.
00:31:16And he learned how to be acceptable in that particular environment and society he wanted.
00:31:22So behind that, who knows who Will Smith is?
00:31:26Because now what has happened is over such a long period of time, he has now become that.
00:31:32But in becoming that, there's also elements of depression because you've isolated that probably child within and built up barriers and built up a whole...
00:31:42You know, these fences around self who could really just be somebody totally left field.
00:31:49Left field.
00:31:50I don't know why I'm looking at that.
00:31:52Right?
00:31:52The other left.
00:31:53The other left.
00:31:53The other left, right?
00:31:54And so apart from presence in that as an analogy, there's also the other thing where you said, if people see your front or back, right?
00:32:06And we're talking figuratively here, right?
00:32:07Not physically, right?
00:32:08A lot of times, you know, there's this thing about a brain fart.
00:32:14You know, my grandmother would always say, put your brain in gear before you put your mouth in motion.
00:32:18A lot of times you're going through the process.
00:32:20If I sit in there with my woman or anybody, I'm not going to go, man, I'd love to bang that woman there, boy.
00:32:26There's just thoughts that just float that are happening at the time or you're trying to figure s*** out.
00:32:33And while you're doing that, you don't want to expose yourself because I might say today, I want to do this and I feel like I'm this.
00:32:40And then tomorrow, which I'm entitled to do, change my mind.
00:32:43The page flips over onto another story.
00:32:46You might then be held to the fact that, but you said you want to do this or this is who you are.
00:32:52And you're then judged accordingly.
00:32:54That's actually a good point too, Robert.
00:32:56But totally different from what he's saying, but it's a good point.
00:33:00But back to his point as in the dynamics too have a lot to do with it too.
00:33:03As in the sense of how you went to Barataria and you know the violence you were seeing.
00:33:07And then you went to George's and it's two different life.
00:33:11I can kind of relate to that, you know, because sometimes you want to be a certain way as a man.
00:33:16That's the next thing too.
00:33:17You probably know who you want to be, but the environment just not allowing it.
00:33:22Yeah, no, for real.
00:33:23I don't mind being transparent about this.
00:33:27I remember when I was, I stopped, because one of the things, I started hanging out with more girls and Georges than fellas.
00:33:35Because I went on national radio dread.
00:33:38I remember there used to be a station called 98.9 Radio, because it was a youth station, right?
00:33:43I went on to do this radio interview dread about sex and sexuality.
00:33:47And I was represented as a virgin, because I was a virgin.
00:33:50You understand?
00:33:52And I went on to talk about how I felt about being a virgin, not ashamed of it, whatever.
00:33:57But it was supposed to be anonymous.
00:33:58And at the start of the interview, the man was just like, I want to welcome Karen to the studio.
00:34:01And I was just like, bro, what the hell is going on?
00:34:05And the man was just like, sorry, I'm sorry.
00:34:07And he's just like, you know, I have plenty of Karens in China, you're safe.
00:34:10You know, I mean, I should have known because my voice, I mean, I have plenty of Karens with my voice.
00:34:14Why didn't leave?
00:34:16You still wanted to stay even though you're calling your name?
00:34:17I didn't even think about leaving horse.
00:34:21I just...
00:34:22He was virgin to that as well.
00:34:24I mean, I was still, I mean, a young teenager, it's form six now.
00:34:29And I remember talking, and at the end of the interview, the man was just like, we want to thank, you know, Niles for coming truly.
00:34:34And I was just like, you didn't just call my surname at the end of the interview.
00:34:38So he set up my whole...
00:34:39So I went, when I walked in school on a Monday morning horse, the whole school knew I was a virgin.
00:34:46You understand?
00:34:46And the men and them, they hosted, like all the fellas and them, they hosted a little intervention.
00:34:51This is like, you know, we could introduce some girls and saying, you know, somebody goes through, I'm sorry for your Karens.
00:34:57You know, like, you'll get you easy, Karens.
00:35:00The girls' feed, I'm sorry for your, just say which one and you're good to go.
00:35:04And I said, you know what, but I actually believe, I mean, spoiler alert, I got married a virgin at 29.
00:35:10And I said to them, I said to them, I actually, I actually chose to be a virgin.
00:35:16I didn't become a virgin due to rejection.
00:35:18I chose to be a virgin.
00:35:20And the response of these men, just like, why would you do this?
00:35:26You can't be yourself.
00:35:27You can't be yourself.
00:35:29You can't be yourself.
00:35:30So it changed.
00:35:31No, but he still was himself.
00:35:32In some ways, yeah, yeah.
00:35:33He get talk, right?
00:35:35But if he still continue on being married, right?
00:35:39To the point.
00:35:40So he stayed himself.
00:35:41And that's what I would say would be, if you're using it, Lucy, the mark of a man.
00:35:46You decide what your boundary is, right?
00:35:48So I'm not saying whether you get married before sex or not.
00:35:52If you, your thing is, you choose this, you dictate, even if in the midst of people trying to tell the thing, even in the midst of persecution.
00:36:01And that's what I think is what make a man.
00:36:03Well, I did change my circles.
00:36:05I did hang out.
00:36:06I was just going to say, your tribe will change because you're now attracted differently.
00:36:11And you'll find yourself like for like now attracting persons that you could probably go back to a sense of comfort.
00:36:16Where the discomfort would come in is if you wanted to remain true to that, but then are still associated with maybe persons who were, you know, now going to ridicule you or laugh or shoot behind your back.
00:36:29But as long as you can remove yourself from that.
00:36:31You know, they always say surround yourself with the five people in the direction you want to go.
00:36:35Right.
00:36:35But the problem now, so the reason why, KJ, and you probably will find this really interesting, right?
00:36:40So right now what I find is like, so for me, as you're right, like my social circle began to change now because the men and them was just like carrying on weirdness, just like we don't understand why he'd be in this way, right?
00:36:52But some of the girls, they got it, you understand?
00:36:54Some of the girls even felt safer around me for that because they know I wasn't trying to bang them, right?
00:36:58But what I realized is like now, now, Dred, like that natural kind of choosing a circle thing is put on steroids by algorithms.
00:37:09You understand?
00:37:09And so you choosing your circles is now put on steroids by an algorithm also surrounding you between the information, certain communities.
00:37:17And, again, bring it back to like the performers and stuff, your audience, and who naturally drew on to that, to your messaging and to your look and to, so like, let me just break it down, like how I view it, right?
00:37:32How I view it is there's a reason why even for video shoots and for music, we hire stylists.
00:37:38Based on who the audience is and based on who we think is going to listen to the song and going to like the song, you know what I mean, is we're catering for a specific group of people, but we're also catering for a specific group of people based on who responded to the last stuff.
00:37:53So based on how people responded to the news that I was a virgin, I would know how to present myself the next time.
00:37:58Correct.
00:37:59You understand?
00:38:00So, and it's the same thing that we do right now in the music industry.
00:38:04When I present an artist, how did they present, how did they respond to your last track?
00:38:08Like, what was the messaging in your last track?
00:38:10What was the, and based on how I am now, based on how I get you the last time.
00:38:14And so, and I feel like it's kind of like, what was interesting to me is the extent to which that becomes two things, inauthentic or, because really, actually, you're building something.
00:38:29Some parts of your presentation are based on audience feedback.
00:38:32And that's how artists behave.
00:38:34And part of that is healthy because they need to eat.
00:38:36But as an individual, I don't know the degree to which I was healthy.
00:38:40But the other thing that is important is, if you don't have a community that is critiquing that, you will never critique the water that you are swimming in.
00:38:52Like, if people are, if you find your five people, and none of those five people are just like, why are we walking in this direction?
00:38:57Nobody is critiquing it.
00:39:00Then you might find yourself, if you're in a, and not to be extreme, if you're in a group of abusers, you will find yourself becoming more abusive without, because nobody is critiquing the behavior.
00:39:10So, I wanted to pause there, because that's exactly the direction I want the conversation to go in the final segment.
00:39:16You know, we're taking it, we're taking it down into a darker spot, because it needs to be spoken about.
00:39:21Because in that display, in that performance of that said masculinity, it goes way left field to abuse.
00:39:29So, we take a short break, and we come back.
00:39:32We delve into that land.
00:39:34Welcome back to Manhood.
00:39:45We're discussing, do men display masculinity different among men than they display it among women?
00:39:52And we're having some very interesting conversations, because one thing that I'm really interested in is the performance part of it, right?
00:40:03And then we're discussing authenticity now versus adapting to environment.
00:40:09And what I realized thus far is maybe you could perform and still be authentic once the cards that you're playing or the role that you're playing is still in alignment with you.
00:40:23So, let me give an example.
00:40:24It's like I have a red blazer, a white blazer, and a black blazer, but I like all three.
00:40:32But if I wear a different one, I will get a different reaction from the different audiences as I go.
00:40:40So, I choose.
00:40:41So, in a sense, I am performing differently in that audience, but I'm still being authentic because all of those jackets is what I like.
00:40:49But if there's an orange one that I don't like, but somebody say, you know what, this crowd really like orange.
00:40:55But I say, I really don't like the orange, you know.
00:40:58But if I wear it just because they like it, now I'm being inauthentic with all thoughts or not.
00:41:05Yeah.
00:41:07I mean, yeah, I mean, I mean, that is an act of, I find why they're bringing real valid points today.
00:41:14That's what the show is about.
00:41:15So, even among women, if when men present themselves differently among their brethren than differently among women,
00:41:23if you're still being true to yourself, then I think it's okay you're performing differently.
00:41:29But now if you're being something that you're not, then there could be a problem.
00:41:36But within there, even you could still be masculine, but then that starts to go down the realm of leaders and followers.
00:41:42You know, sheeples.
00:41:43You know, you're a follower.
00:41:45But does that make you less of a man because you're following?
00:41:47But there's also, there are different things that motivate people's behavior.
00:41:55And you talked about leader and follower.
00:41:57He spoke about men that might be attracted to men, right?
00:42:00If no one else knows that they are, they are going to be very differently in a group of men in order to fit in.
00:42:07You understand?
00:42:07They overcompensate.
00:42:08They might overcompensate.
00:42:10They might try to be more masculine than everybody else to prove that they are a certain way.
00:42:13You understand?
00:42:14Similarly, if I am hanging out, and I like this point that he made earlier.
00:42:20If I'm hanging out in a group and I see a very attractive woman there that could potentially, you know, be single,
00:42:28how I behave around her is going to be different than if she wasn't in the room.
00:42:34And even stuff like slack talk, even stuff like men who are making inappropriate jokes.
00:42:40You understand?
00:42:40I understand my behavior and my tendency to say some things.
00:42:46When you say my, you mean specifically you.
00:42:48Specifically me.
00:42:49Because certain men could still behave like a jackass.
00:42:53In those circumstances, anybody could behave in any way, right?
00:42:57But hear me out, right?
00:42:58What I'm, I was trying to figure out the other day, because I was trying to figure out why so many different groups of women,
00:43:07when I speak to them, each of them know at least one man who's an abuser.
00:43:11But in all of my male friends circles, none of them know men that are abusers.
00:43:16None.
00:43:16Like, I can't point to one, I can't point to one man that I can say, yeah, he, he, he's an abuser or he, or he's a hit woman.
00:43:24But we have a one in three statistic in the country where one in three women experience abuse of some, some kind.
00:43:30So somebody, and the, the, the, the predominant perpetrator is male.
00:43:35So somebody had to be hitting this woman.
00:43:38And I study and tell myself.
00:43:40Who is the man?
00:43:40Who is this man that's hitting this woman?
00:43:42Like, like, where are they coming?
00:43:44Like, so there's a few people in your circle.
00:43:47So you're asking yourself, are you seeing like for like trait, but you just haven't.
00:43:53But how would I, how would an abuser, right?
00:43:56Because I'm thinking now, okay, if an abuser being authentic amongst the brethren, right?
00:44:01Because you, you saying you don't know anybody.
00:44:05But I've heard men in, especially in fetmat circles, right?
00:44:10I've heard men say already, they mightn't say to everybody, but I've heard men talking to other men say, you know, well, and they say kind of apologetically, but they're saying, well, and I end up hitting her, you know.
00:44:21Right.
00:44:22Right.
00:44:22Right.
00:44:22I've heard that already.
00:44:23Right.
00:44:24So there wasn't, so it wasn't, they wasn't talking to the group, but it's things I've overheard.
00:44:30Right.
00:44:31So I've seen, if an abuser is being his authentic self, is that something that he would really come and tell his brethren?
00:44:39The only times I've seen somebody tell his brethren that he rented somebody is if a woman publicly does something to humiliate that guy and he needs to show the other men.
00:44:50I say, boy, I catch my girl cheating and I went on her phone, I feel like one, but she up to night.
00:44:55Yeah, exactly.
00:44:56Yeah, exactly.
00:44:56They got versions to me already.
00:44:57But another thing too, as we were saying, I believe that men are very fake because like for me, for instance, I have a lot of associates, right?
00:45:04Whether it be in the music industry, wherever.
00:45:06I know the kind of people in the industry, right, who want drugs, who dare to be a woman, all kind of things, who are not taking care of the train.
00:45:14But I am a very stand-up type of person, so I just talk one way, right?
00:45:17I have one type of conversation, which is positive energy, intelligence, being a real man, all these different things.
00:45:25So the people who would come around KG, they would know that he stands for one kind of energy, right?
00:45:31So when they come around me now, they will talk about certain things and act a certain way and pretend like if they don't beat a man and they don't smoke coke and they don't do this and don't do that.
00:45:40But then I hear stories about how they're doing the worst thing.
00:45:43So men are followers, I believe that and who they are wrong is who they are more lean to.
00:45:49If you are wrong a pastor, you pretend like if you do sin.
00:45:52If you are wrong a bad man, you pretend like if you do the baddest man out there.
00:45:55And I see it constantly, you know, men.
00:45:59That's why I want to know what is masculinity because if everybody, well, quote unquote everybody.
00:46:03But definitely what you now would say, if they're men is what I do, I would say no.
00:46:06Yeah.
00:46:06Because if a man molding himself into, to try to impress somebody, definitely not.
00:46:13I would say that is not masculinity because it's a difference.
00:46:16It can never be.
00:46:17It's different verses.
00:46:19Let me use the example we were talking about with the WhatsApp, right?
00:46:22I say I don't like to say pleasantries, but I was giving you the example.
00:46:26Somebody told me, say, Johan, say, I know you don't like pleasantries, but I like pleasantries.
00:46:30So when you're talking to me, tell me I'm pleasantries now.
00:46:33And I respect that because what the person does is they respect me and the least I could do is respect them.
00:46:40So when I talk to them, I say good afternoon and we both have a little smile about it now.
00:46:45And I would say that is being a man because you still decide to stand up for who you are, but you could respect somebody else and their boundaries, their requests.
00:46:56Now, I could have said no too.
00:46:58I could have said no.
00:46:59You see this pleasantry thing?
00:47:00That is not me.
00:47:01But at the same time, you're still being honest to yourself.
00:47:04And I think that is really what it is being a man because around my brethrens, I might, let me say, I just use an example, might curse.
00:47:13Right.
00:47:13Right.
00:47:14But if I think the woman I trying to impress don't like cursing, I wouldn't curse.
00:47:20Yeah.
00:47:20Is that being authentic or not?
00:47:22I'm asking at first.
00:47:23No.
00:47:24No.
00:47:24No.
00:47:24No.
00:47:25No.
00:47:25No.
00:47:25That would come back down to I personally believe from this conversation that the majority of men are fake.
00:47:34Because if you tell her, I just curse, you know, but I know you don't like us, so I'm not going and curse on you.
00:47:40That's the front.
00:47:41That's the front.
00:47:42So here's the front, right?
00:47:44He said, I respect you.
00:47:45I respect that you don't like it, but I am of that.
00:47:48But I will not do it around you because I know that, you know, she may then turn around and say, but why do you cuss and try to be a therapist in other ways?
00:47:57But the point is, I think that you've been open with her to let her know this is who you are, who you were.
00:48:04You're not necessarily, you're not saying you're proud about it, you know.
00:48:06Yeah.
00:48:07You're not saying I am proud I just cuss or I am proud I do this.
00:48:10I just won't curse around you.
00:48:11You're just letting her know that this is, up until this point, this is who I have been.
00:48:16And that, I think, is the difference.
00:48:21Yeah, that's fine.
00:48:22People don't curse around me either.
00:48:24People always say, Karen, we know you hate when people use obscene language.
00:48:28So they just say that.
00:48:29You're on the wrong show, buddy.
00:48:31But what about this part of the thing too?
00:48:34I don't think we touch on this.
00:48:35What about women stating what is a real man also?
00:48:40Like a woman telling you about, you have to pay the bills, you have to take care of this, you have to take care of that.
00:48:45If you tie a bus in the car, you have to fix it.
00:48:47All these kind of manly things.
00:48:49But you know to yourself, you don't have these quote-unquote skills.
00:48:53You probably can't change your tire or you're probably not making a certain amount of money to pay the mortgage on your own.
00:48:58Because women also dictate what is a man to now.
00:49:01Because we have to listen to women at the same time.
00:49:03Is he wrong one for you?
00:49:04You know, what about that part of the thing?
00:49:06Is he wrong one?
00:49:07Because if you can't be authentic self, authenticity, as you say, KG, if I can't change a tire, now, I could either...
00:49:14Are you a man?
00:49:15I could either want, no, I can't change a tire.
00:49:17But my man, unless to somebody, now, I've been called an alpha male in many circles.
00:49:25Now, that might be, like you said, if I go in a different environment, a different, you know, a totally different environment, my alpha might be actually down here.
00:49:34I might be beta in a certain case.
00:49:36Because today, I am now going into a big environment where I now have to probably stand up a bit taller.
00:49:41Now, I'm a tall guy.
00:49:42I'm six foot four, right?
00:49:43Or six foot three, you know.
00:49:45And when I go into a certain environment, I see people taller than me.
00:49:49All of a sudden, I find I kind of, you know, I stand up a little bit straighter.
00:49:54You know what I mean?
00:49:55It's like we size up each other because of the environment.
00:49:58Now, if I'm with a woman who's making me feel uncomfortable or stressed, stress to be better and stress to be what you want me to be is two different sets of stress, right?
00:50:09Because I could, like, cussing and things like that is not good.
00:50:11So, therefore, if you're making me a better person and I should really be more endeared to you than if you're now just saying, you ain't cooking, you ain't paying any bills, you ain't doing this.
00:50:23I say, well, what you're looking for is a sugar daddy, you know?
00:50:26So, therefore, if that person is making me feel that way, if I could do it, I could do it.
00:50:31But if you're working as hard as you can, you're not a couch potato and you say bringing in $10,000 and you want to live above your means and you're bringing in zero, but you actually wanted about $15,000 lifestyle, then go so.
00:50:44So, here's something I want to put on the table as well, right?
00:50:48So, there was a philosopher, some of you all know Calvin and Hobbes is the...
00:50:54The character.
00:50:56So, that's actually based on two English philosophers, John Calvin and Thomas Hobbes.
00:51:00Thomas Hobbes had a theory that equality is the source of all men's misery because if two men want the same thing that they both cannot have, they'll fight.
00:51:10You understand?
00:51:11And he said equality, he said essentially men are equal because mental acuity and sharpness can be acquired.
00:51:21They could study.
00:51:21They could get better.
00:51:22And he said if somebody is bigger than you, you could go call their friends.
00:51:27You understand?
00:51:29And so, you see, the equality of men is the reason why we never have peace.
00:51:33By the way, this is why he said that we need to have a state and the state has to have a sword, right?
00:51:38That's a political science 101, right?
00:51:41That's why the state needs to have guns to make sure that there is security, right?
00:51:46Which brings you to the point, right?
00:51:48We are willing to give up a certain amount of freedom to the state in order to be secure.
00:51:53And I wonder if, as men, how we present ourselves is based on how secure we feel in and of ourselves around certain people to be our true selves.
00:52:05Because part of the social contract is we are willing to give up a certain amount of freedom to have a certain amount of security.
00:52:11And I wonder if in our relationships we're not really willing to be our full, true self unless we feel safe.
00:52:20You understand?
00:52:20But, Kieran, is being your authentic self one particular character?
00:52:29It doesn't have to be, no.
00:52:30And that's what I'm saying.
00:52:31So, do I understand that myself, being my authentic self is X, Y, and Z, like Johansson mentioned about red, white, and black jackets.
00:52:40It's, they're different.
00:52:41So, if I'm around you, I am, and I feel less stressed or not stressed at all, and I'm in this environment, I feel like, hey, you know what?
00:52:50I could just take off all my clothes and go and run down the road.
00:52:54That's how you're feeling in that moment.
00:52:55So, you feel okay.
00:52:56So, then do that.
00:52:57And that's what I'm saying.
00:52:58And then, I think that is your authentic self.
00:53:00Well, my ass could get locked up, but I mean.
00:53:01I think that's your authentic self there because you made a good point there.
00:53:05You spoke about equality, right?
00:53:07And I don't think men at our core really embrace equality.
00:53:14Equality is not a masculine thing, you know.
00:53:16As women, I think there's a look for equality.
00:53:19Every man know that it has a hierarchy of things, right?
00:53:24Every man know that, right?
00:53:25I know it has, I'm not a plumber, so I need to call a plumber because he has the hierarchy there.
00:53:31In a behavior change or a psychology context, I might say, okay, I think I have some cloud there.
00:53:38In a producer, I don't know anything about music.
00:53:41So, in that case, Cage is the man who, if you understand, I look into every man.
00:53:45They could be willing to load.
00:53:46Right.
00:53:47But every man know the hierarchy there.
00:53:49I think, and I don't know when this happened, whenever men in general, let's say in the Western world,
00:53:55when we started subscribing to equality, I think is where we started to lose ourselves.
00:54:00Because when we started to subscribe to this equality thing, we started to mold and meander and submit, right?
00:54:10We started to submit to our zeitgeist.
00:54:13We started to submit to our philosophy.
00:54:16We started to submit.
00:54:18And submission, for me, in most cases, and this case maybe it's fear because you're saying,
00:54:23if we are afraid of losing something, so if I are afraid that I ain't going to get no sex from a woman,
00:54:30then I will change and become whatever I think.
00:54:33If I'm afraid I mightn't ever get married or I'm afraid I mightn't have any children,
00:54:39then I will meander myself and acquiesce and become this thing that I am not just to get it.
00:54:48So I think it's a matter of fear.
00:54:49It comes down to your reward.
00:54:50Remember you spoke about reward, you know, about the brain or the person does something
00:54:55knowing that there's a reward.
00:54:56If there's no reward, then you're not going to get movement.
00:54:59So if I know I'm not going to get sex and I'm going to do what it takes to get sex,
00:55:03I'm going to, like you said, I'm going to acquiesce.
00:55:05And if not, then you know the result of that.
00:55:09There are repercussions.
00:55:10This conversation, I'm going to let you finish there, Karen, but I'm just going to say,
00:55:16you know, we could go on for, you know, but there is TV time and there's a lot of valid points
00:55:22and you're always, you know, in terms of the many other episodes to come where we discuss this
00:55:26because this is not just a, this is it and done, you know, but what I'd like us to present is one,
00:55:33just in our closing, what we're really taking away from what is our man and why,
00:55:39and that performance, but to also understand that bottom line is if we live in victim mentality
00:55:47and we're not being our true selves, then that could never be what a man should be
00:55:53and masculinity and masculinity in all the rest of it, whether I know,
00:55:57if I don't know how to change attire, if I'm willing to say I own up to that
00:56:02and the admission of that and the acknowledgement that I don't know how to it,
00:56:05but guess what, I feel for my own interest, these things are happening all the time
00:56:10for the security of my family or the environment and to save money, etc.,
00:56:13I need to go and learn, then that is being our man, the willingness to learn
00:56:19and not being afraid to say I don't know.
00:56:21Yeah, and on that note, I cannot change attire.
00:56:25I mean, and I am willing to learn.
00:56:29I can't change attire.
00:56:30Yeah, I mean, you understand what I'm showing here?
00:56:32You know who not to call it.
00:56:33Yeah, exactly.
00:56:34But the key things is, what I was going to say before I close,
00:56:41and I think this is what I was thinking, right?
00:56:45I don't know if it's the same for you or in terms of if you've lived with a woman,
00:56:50but for me, living with a female has in some ways been a pleasant interrogation of self
00:56:57because they force you to get to know yourself better.
00:57:00So if there are three jackets in his cupboard, and there's a white and there's a black
00:57:06and there's a red, they're going to be like, why do you wear the red?
00:57:09And why do you like the black?
00:57:11And why do you like the white?
00:57:12And things that you've never thought of yourself, you're going to be like,
00:57:15they cause you to, and you know why they force you to get to know yourself?
00:57:19Because they're trying to get to know you.
00:57:21You understand?
00:57:22And sometimes when they're trying to get to know you, it forces you to realize,
00:57:25I don't even know me.
00:57:26You understand?
00:57:26So I realize that, but to be willing to enter into a space where I am okay,
00:57:34you know, getting to know myself with another human, that's a position of trust, Dredd.
00:57:39Like to be able to do that with somebody else, I trust you, Dredd.
00:57:43Because if I don't feel safe around you, go on from here.
00:57:47I don't want you to be around when I get into know myself.
00:57:52You can use that against me.
00:57:54And some will.
00:57:55And some will.
00:57:57You know what I mean?
00:57:57Like, why just do that in bed, too?
00:57:59And be like, well, something uncomfortable.
00:58:02And then next thing you break up on your business on the internet and on Instagram.
00:58:07Bro, if I don't love you like that, we're not doing this.
00:58:09You understand?
00:58:10That's what I would say.
00:58:11And I would say for me, I think there's a mistake.
00:58:16I would use the word mistake or because I didn't know better in my life as a man taking time for myself before involving myself in intimate relationships like that with women.
00:58:27Because I agree that living with a woman and being with a woman would make you the introspection and they would act.
00:58:34And I say that's a good thing, you know, because a woman would act.
00:58:38It's truth.
00:58:38You know, a woman would say, tell me the truth now.
00:58:40So, it makes us force us.
00:58:42But before you even trust somebody and be vulnerable with somebody, you at least have to be some sort of level of comfort with yourself alone.
00:58:50Exactly.
00:58:51Because sometimes when you start to live with somebody, you didn't even live with yourself yet to know you even like the bed this way or like the bathroom this way.
00:59:00Or you just squeeze the toothpaste at the bottom and she just squeeze the toothpaste in the middle.
00:59:03You don't even know what you like yet.
00:59:05So, even in that discovery, the new discovery, sometimes that's real difficult because you don't know.
00:59:11So, I would encourage men, men, boys, intimate, learn yourself first.
00:59:16I mean, I don't know if we ever fully, perfectly know 100% of ourselves.
00:59:21But at least you're comfortable with yourself so that however you're displaying your masculinity with your boys, you're not a PN, you're reflecting your authenticity.
00:59:31However, if you're training your masculinity with women, at least it's authentic.
00:59:36And even if you're wearing different jackets, all the jackets at least is your authentic jackets so that you're knowing where to put it in different places.
00:59:43Yeah, be comfortable in your own skin.
00:59:45You understand?
00:59:46And I think that's a huge, huge point about internal security.
00:59:51And don't let anybody, like, because when you enter into a relationship with somebody, they will interrogate who you are.
00:59:58You understand?
00:59:59And if you are not secure in yourself, you will feel attacked and you might lash out at them.
01:00:03So, definitely.
01:00:05And part of that, part of what you just said there, in another way, another person would simply say, learn to love yourself as yourself.
01:00:12You understand?
01:00:13Instead of wishing that you were somebody else.
01:00:16Because if you don't love yourself and you are depending on someone else to love you.
01:00:21Problems.
01:00:22Problems.
01:00:23Problems before you start.
01:00:24Problems.
01:00:24KG.
01:00:25I mean, a lot of valid points, fellas.
01:00:28I really appreciate this episode.
01:00:30I think that everything came out all your mouth was on point.
01:00:34And I think it comes down to exactly what you say, too.
01:00:36Comfort.
01:00:37Same thing what Robert said.
01:00:38The fear aspect also, too.
01:00:41You know, and I think a lot of men living in fear and don't even understand that they are living in fear in all different ways.
01:00:48And I think that is the first step to being a man.
01:00:53Coming out of your comfort zone and understanding yourself and not living in fear.
01:00:57Courage.
01:00:58You know, being real, courage, being brave, being true.
01:01:01You know, so yeah.
01:01:02So, do we display differently among women?
01:01:11The truth is we display differently amongst even men.
01:01:14We display differently wherever we are.
01:01:16That's because self is always changing.
01:01:19We're all, you know, it is not one state.
01:01:21It is not evergreen.
01:01:22It's a constant state of change.
01:01:24And the only thing that we always say is constant is change.
01:01:27And so why is human behavior any different?
01:01:31What happens today is not what's going to happen tomorrow and not what happened yesterday.
01:01:35And they say what's past is prologue.
01:01:37And, you know, there's always this, you know, this funny thing that I like, you know, where you have, you know, an artist might perform and he may excel in certain cases.
01:01:49And you always turn around and say, well, you know, yesterday's price isn't today's price, nor tomorrow's price.
01:01:53And it's the same thing with the person.
01:01:55So, the person that you're with, and I think a lot of times why the woman or whoever your partner is or your family may question certain things and allow you to introspect is because they're seeing the changes.
01:02:06And they're seeing the differences in what's happening with you and might realize without whether organically or subconsciously to say, well, yesterday I like this and today I like this.
01:02:16So, they themselves, it's a fluidity.
01:02:19They themselves are constantly adapting and learning you as you are trying to figure out yourself.
01:02:24Because if I like chocolate today and tomorrow I don't, I simply just do eat chocolate.
01:02:30You know, I don't have to account to anybody for that to say, well, why now we're doing this?
01:02:35But that's life.
01:02:36And part of men, if we're to understand that masculinity and whether we display differently, is part of us really, I think, understanding and learning ourselves as other people learn.
01:02:50But to be true to that and not live in the blame someone else and the victim mentality will certainly go a long way in understanding who self is and being true.
01:03:02Living the truth.
01:03:03I have an exercise for the men that are watching, right?
01:03:05I'll close off with that one.
01:03:06Right.
01:03:06A good way to find yourself is try to go 48 hours without telling a lie.
01:03:14Meaning, don't do anything you don't want to do.
01:03:16Because once you do something you don't want to do, you're lying.
01:03:19So, if you want to talk to somebody five minutes and five minutes reach and you're talking to them five minutes and ten seconds, you're lying.
01:03:25You have to hang up the call.
01:03:26If somebody say, hey, let me get a dropping tongue now, you have to tell them, nah, boy.
01:03:30Right.
01:03:30Try to go 48 hours without telling a lie.
01:03:34I'm going to try that.
01:03:36And this is Manhood.
01:03:37Thank you very much.
01:03:44I'm in the office of the Fire Princess Jalifa, representing Straits.
01:03:48We're on Manhood, the spotlight.
01:03:50I'm going to sing, hear you for the idem.
01:03:52Rhythm up, now I'm put it.
01:03:53And one of the elders saying, tell me, we'd not be on the line of the tribe of Judah, the roots of David, I prevail to open up the book and loose the seven seals thereof.
01:04:07Hey, you, I'm a sell the king.
01:04:12Hey, you, Selassie the king.
01:04:20Hey, you, I'm a sell the king.
01:04:26Hey, you, Selassie the king.
01:04:31Aminah, huh?
01:05:01Aminah, huh?
01:05:31Aminah, huh?
01:06:01Aminah!
01:06:02Heli, almost Heli
01:06:07Heli, selassi Heli
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