Are we living our truth?
With Derron Sandy
With Derron Sandy
Category
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TVTranscript
00:00Manhood, brought to you in part by Reboot Sports Drink.
00:09So thank you for joining us yet again for another conversation here on Manhood.
00:14I'm Robert Dumas, and to my right I have Johanse Iodike.
00:18To his right, Darren Sandy's spoken word artist.
00:22And to his right, Niall McNish, vibes god, provocateur.
00:27A lot of terms that are self-proclaimed.
00:33I'll take it.
00:35But yeah, vibes god nonetheless.
00:39And gents, viewers, listeners, the topic today is the topic.
00:46Let me rephrase that.
00:50The topic that was to be discussed today is not going to be discussed.
00:54I was, prior to coming here to film, I was walking down the corridor, and a colleague
01:01said to me, women were incensed by the first episode of this season.
01:08And I try in life now to, instead of rebutting, to reemphasize, to refocus, which is what this
01:20show is about, we have a position, we're here to be better as brothers.
01:25We always say we are not speaking on behalf of all men.
01:27We are few men speaking to all men.
01:30And it's a tried thing.
01:34Manhood is not going to be initially accepted or everyone's palate at the moment.
01:39But we have to stay the course, stay the course.
01:43And in doing so, I had to ask myself, okay, what in the show or what in the episode in
01:51particular bothered them?
01:54You know, and are we saying, we're not saying that what women are doing is wrong.
01:59All we're doing is we're focusing and sharing the fact that when women behave in a particular
02:05way, men also behave in a particular way.
02:09And it's not saying it's right or wrong.
02:10We're just saying this is what happens as a result.
02:14So Darren, we were speaking about whining culture, right?
02:18So today's topic is going to be truth.
02:23Should men tell the truth?
02:28Are we living our truth?
02:30It's all about truth, right?
02:33Interesting.
02:34So when, and it's about when we shared what we shared, we are speaking our truth.
02:42We are speaking what is.
02:44It's just what is.
02:46Whether you like it or not, that's a man.
02:51Whether we like it or not, that's a woman.
02:53And there's certain innate things that there are certain things that we are in control
02:57of and certain things that we're not in control of.
03:00And there's certain things that we can control that are innate, but it offsets the balance.
03:06So I want to talk today about men and their truth.
03:12Speaking the truth, men living in their truth, generally being in their truth.
03:17And of course, I'm really delighted that we have a spoken word artist.
03:20One of the best in Trinidad and Tobago here with us, because a lot of what you, your art form
03:28and how you communicate is really that deep, is really deep rooted in that sense of truth
03:33and speaking, speaking what, you know, on a general sense and a very deep sense, a very spiritual sense as well, truth.
03:43But you want to, you know, I have some issues with, you know, always telling the truth in certain circumstances.
03:49But you wouldn't believe how much of this is a, is a alignment for me, because this is something that I working on also on being honest.
03:59Now, I, I didn't qualify by saying being honest sometimes, most of the times is either you're honest or you're not.
04:06And it is something I struggled with most of my life, because there are many people I want to please, many people I don't want them to get vexed.
04:15Many times I'm wondering what people might think, all of those things.
04:19But I've realized what it has done to me is create a space of suppression inside.
04:25Because I really want to say certain things or do certain things, and I'm, I'm not doing it.
04:31And when I tell people about this, sometimes they say, well, people might do things wrong or people might do things bad.
04:38It's not about that, because I don't think anybody's innately bad.
04:41But their truth could be something that may seem unorthodox.
04:46Right?
04:47Interesting.
04:47Right?
04:48That suppression thing that you just spoke about, right?
04:51Suppressing parts of yourself.
04:52I, I think suppression is part of manhood, boy.
04:56Like, honesty works with timing to me sometimes.
05:00Now everything is to say one time.
05:02Okay, all right.
05:03Now everything is to express one time in the moment.
05:05Sometimes you as a man now, you are the kind of like pullback from a certain situation and, and just think about it and say, all right, did me delivering this message at this point in time was the right thing to do?
05:17Or was me revealing this particular thing about myself the right thing to do?
05:21For example, you might be a poet, right?
05:24And, um, you have poems about all different things.
05:28I say one of the poems you have about is, is the way you treat women and you have your perspective about that.
05:33And, and the women in your life know that that is not what's happening right now.
05:38So your poem doing this and your life doing this other thing, that could be very problematic.
05:43And I've witnessed that being very problematic in the, in the whole poetry space.
05:48But one thing I have on my page is the, the journey is to reach to the standard of the words that you, the words that you poetry.
05:57Okay.
05:57Right.
05:57Because if somebody call it an event to do a poem about domestic violence, you obviously have to present it within the spectrum of what the person running the event wants in that moment.
06:07Not everything you say there might line up with your life, but to me, the challenge now for you as, as that performer is to, to move towards that.
06:15And you mightn't be there yet, but you're moving towards it in a kind of way.
06:18So, um, I just think that suppression is, is key sometimes.
06:22There are some things I would not reveal about myself right now, because I know of the impact that I could have, as you, as you were saying, in terms of it affecting people in a certain way or robbing people in a certain way.
06:32So, is that then being, and Johansson, to your point, is that then being dishonest by being calculating and, and, and taking, being empathetic in certain cases, not always apathetic, but being empathetic to hurting someone?
06:48Or is there, is there honesty in telling somebody up front that you are dishonest?
06:55You know, is, is, is it an oxymoron?
06:57No, no, no, Robert, that's perfect, you know, because as you were saying it with timing, I was considering that also, if it's being dishonest or not.
07:06So, so let me see if I could premise it a little bit.
07:08Let's just say, um, you know, I was, you use mobile, right?
07:12Say, I don't like your pants, right?
07:14If me sometimes delivering, if me delivering that truth, cause, cause then we're going again, what is your truth versus the truth, right?
07:24So we could be coming to that.
07:26But if I say, Robert, I don't like your pants, but I offer that unsolicited, that could be the wrong timing.
07:32That could be wrong.
07:33Versus if Robert asks me, Johansson, do you like my pants or what you think about his pants?
07:38Then of course, I've given him the truth in the timing.
07:41But if I just look, looking for, for things and it's my truth, I don't like this, I don't like this, I'm just going around delivering my truth without thinking about the timing.
07:49Then, then it could be, it could be wrong.
07:53So, you know, you know, we, I, I, I always say sometimes to Niall, you know, or, you know, my mom always would say this, it's not what you say, it's how you say it.
08:03Right.
08:04Right?
08:04So even with timing, it's also how you say it and how you deliver it and still being empathetic to the fact that the person has feelings, to be hurt.
08:13But then other people say, listen, I live in my truth, I don't, I don't mean anything, there's no aggression, there's no animosity within me, so I'm just giving you my truth.
08:23So say, for example, a partner, I was going to say women, but just to avoid any women being offended by this.
08:30No man, no man, no man.
08:32No, no.
08:33Say anything, say anything.
08:34Okay, so a woman asks you, do you find I'm looking fat in this?
08:39Right?
08:40Now, the truth is, you can say, let's say the truth is yes, let's say you do think that.
08:44Well, yeah, and you will say, you know, am I looking fat in this?
08:48No, no, it's not that that is making you look fat.
08:51Your fat is making you look fat.
08:52Your fat is why you're fat.
08:54Right?
08:55So, but that's the reality.
08:56You know, I, you know, when people bounce around, you know, say, hey, you're a big guy now or you're a big bone and things like that.
09:03I say, listen, I haven't trained in however many months and so on now.
09:08A chubby fella, no.
09:09You know, I am not trying to run from the reality that, you know, I don't want anybody to tell me I'm looking slim or, you know, any of these things or your beard, your beard getting gray to mine upon a little something today.
09:21Right?
09:21Um, but the reality is, is that sometimes the truth does indeed hurt.
09:26It does.
09:27And, and, and so the timing of that could be different to say, um, you know, we both need to do some exercise or something around that as opposed to saying.
09:40He didn't answer, he didn't answer the question because if it was asked, do I look fat in this?
09:44And you say, well, I think we both need to do exercise.
09:47You're not answering the question that was asked.
09:49So, but you could then lie.
09:51Right.
09:51And then you could say, no, babe, you're looking good.
09:53Now, are you really doing her a good, are you really doing her a good service or disservice by not telling the truth?
10:01Because, so sometimes you want to win, you want to win the war, right?
10:06But you could lose the battle for, to, to refocus and re-strategize.
10:11Because what does it, what does it take to simply say, no, babe, you're looking, you're looking good there.
10:17As opposed to the reality is, you know, you know, muffin top like that.
10:22Well, again, back to how you say certain things.
10:25Like for you, you use, you use a lot of superficial things when you say, you put on weight, you agree better.
10:30But what if like a lot of women do every day, you feel like your stroke's doing what it's supposed to be doing.
10:37And she moaning a little, a little extra for you to make you feel good.
10:40But in essence, she lying because you ain't reaching the back.
10:46You know what I'm saying?
10:46She prefers something bigger or better.
10:49But for your sake, she would do what it needs to make you feel better in the moment.
10:55But that'll mean overall, she actually getting satisfaction for herself.
10:58So is she then doing you a disservice?
11:01That's what we're coming to, the truth.
11:03Yes, yes, yes, yes.
11:05So let me come to one of the reasons why the topic.
11:09So Johansi and I always have this discussion where, you know, something happens, whether you want, instead of cheating,
11:16or you want to be with somebody else, or like you said, you're not happy with sex,
11:21is that you must always tell your truth.
11:25I agree.
11:25Now, my thing to that is, sometimes you have a brain fart, or you have a moment of reflection on something,
11:39or you're window shopping, or different things are happening.
11:44And at that point, you should tell your woman, hey, I'm thinking of her.
11:47No, that is unsolicited truth.
11:50Because let me say you're with your woman, and you see her next woman pass, and you like how she look.
11:54Right?
11:54You don't turn and say, hey, baby, I find this woman have a big bottom.
11:58No.
11:58But next thing she asks you, but next thing she asks you, she says, I see you're watching that woman.
12:04You like how she look?
12:06Now is where the truth comes in.
12:07Because the truth is, you do like how she look.
12:09But I don't know, because at that point, you are now, it is now solicited, right?
12:15But you're now, potentially, it depends on the fabric of your relationship,
12:21you potentially could now hurt that person unnecessarily.
12:25It could be a moment of, hey, I get a big bottom, boy.
12:28And you just move on.
12:29Right.
12:30Right?
12:30And you could be going on a date, you could be going to watch a movie.
12:33Now, the woman asks you, you find she looking good?
12:38Yes, I do.
12:39And then, no more movie, she upset.
12:43Well, then, what is the fabric of the relationship, if you all can see that?
12:48Now, I'm telling you this, and I know this is easier said than done.
12:51That's what I'm saying.
12:51Right?
12:52I'm not denying it.
12:54But, okay, I'm not an old man yet.
12:56I said that last time.
12:57Cool.
12:57I think I've lived long enough and in relationships long enough to know how detrimental that can be by suppressing things.
13:06Right?
13:06And think about it like death like a thousand cuts.
13:09It's something small.
13:10It's something small.
13:10It's something small.
13:11It's something small.
13:12Till eventually, let's say you lie so much, you create a different illusion.
13:17Because, let's just say, she keep asking the question, and it's a certain type of woman.
13:23So, after a while, she will say, well, he don't like that type of woman, but it's that type of woman.
13:28If you understand what I'm saying, no, that's the thing.
13:30So, it could be a woman, it could be a fool, it could be something else.
13:33Instead of stating the truth.
13:34And if your partner, you or your partner, can't handle the truth of your partner, then what's you all doing?
13:40But this guy's, this guy's is, you know, to everyone listening, this is all utopian.
13:46This is all logical.
13:47You're coming back with this utopian thing.
13:49You're coming back with this utopian thing.
13:51This is what makes sense.
13:53But the reality is we're humans.
13:54Humans have emotion.
13:56Right?
13:56So, we are not built to, you know, can you jump in a water and drown yourself?
14:04No, you're going to try and survive.
14:05Human nature is.
14:07Is the fact that you're not going to want to self-flagellate.
14:10You're not going to want to particularly hurt yourself.
14:13So, you go on, for example, cheated on your partner.
14:16Right?
14:16And now you're going to tell your partner, hey, honey, I cheated on you.
14:21Knowing that the result, the result of that is she can ups and leave you.
14:26Now, if you're in love with this woman, realize you've made a mistake or simply want your cake and want to eat.
14:30You know, you want a cake, then you want to eat it.
14:32You're not going to do that because you know the consequence of your action.
14:36It's more than just your action.
14:38And you are now allowing the person to know what has happened.
14:42Right?
14:43Knowing the consequence of that.
14:45So, death by a thousand cuts.
14:47So, I'm saying to you that I'm agreeing with you in the sense that it would be great if we all as humans could just live and tell our truth.
14:57Yeah.
14:57The reality is you're also not only protecting a person, persons, or community.
15:03Protecting you, say, you know.
15:06Darren, before we go to the break, Darren, tell me your thoughts so far on this truth.
15:12Because should we protect people by not telling the truth?
15:17Or is it really protecting them?
15:19What's your thought?
15:19It could go both ways in a sense.
15:23If you know that the person won't jump off a bridge if you tell them a certain thing.
15:26Unless you want that person to jump off that bridge.
15:29Why would I tell the person that?
15:31You understand?
15:32But if you know that, if you decide, all right, I want to give this person a fair chance to see me who I as for, who the person I am.
15:39And therefore, let that person make the decision based on what I have done or what I present to be.
15:45Then you give that person that opportunity.
15:48I think it's fair.
15:49I would want that opportunity.
15:50I'd want to see somebody for who they are and make a decision.
15:53But if you know the person, it will become a threat to the children in the house and things.
15:59And there's a whole set of things going to take place and it's chopped person and this and that.
16:03Common sense will say, yeah, just avoid that.
16:07Some things you had to go in your grave with.
16:09Some things you just had to go in your grave with.
16:12So as men, as we go to the break, are we afraid of the consequences?
16:16Are we man enough to own up to some of our own indiscretions and the choices that we made to be a man?
16:35Welcome back to Manhood.
16:37Thanks for staying with us, Johanse, Darren, Niall.
16:40We're talking about men and the truth.
16:43Are you man enough to not only face the truth, but to tell the truth?
16:47And what it comes down to is, are you man enough to own up and face the consequences as a result of telling the truth?
16:54What I add into that is that whatever is the truth of the process.
17:02So let's say we're using the same thing.
17:04We use cheating.
17:05When you're thinking about cheating, all at that time, you should be considering the consequences.
17:10Because you know...
17:11Nah, it don't work so well.
17:12This guy lives in a...
17:14This guy lives in a different world.
17:16No, no, no.
17:17Of course, no.
17:18You actually do.
17:19Most times, you just think of the consequences.
17:21If you're hiding, you're thinking about the consequences.
17:23But you're not always hiding.
17:26Well, if you're not hiding...
17:27Then to cheat, then you don't care about your girl, then you don't have to hide.
17:30So why does the cheat have to be the fact that you are with somebody?
17:36You could be the single person.
17:38And the person that you went with might be in a relationship.
17:41Are you going to go and tell...
17:43Well, okay, you're bringing a different element than we were talking about, but I understand where you're coming from.
17:49But it's the truth.
17:49Right?
17:50Okay, even if you're the single person, you know there's somebody, husband or wife, right?
17:55And most likely, you're not doing it in the open.
17:58So again, you know the truth of the situation.
18:00Now, it's different because you may not go to tell that person because you talk about unsolicited, unsolicited, solicited.
18:07But in every choice, there's some truth that comes to mind.
18:11And then the consequences.
18:13So let's just say, let's not use cheating.
18:15Let's say you're trying to get a certain body and you're going to eat a donut.
18:20You know the truth of the situation in there.
18:23So even if you think, well, I will drink plenty of water with it or I will go and run in the gym later or something.
18:28You know in the moment.
18:31Right, right.
18:32You know in the moment the truth of it.
18:36So therefore, I mean, again, you say in utopian, but if you make a choice,
18:41what am I talking about as men?
18:43If we make a choice, then action, reaction, cause, effect.
18:47There's always something that will occur from your truth.
18:51Let me give you another scenario.
18:54I never thought when I had the discussion, someone said it was a topic.
18:58I'm just going to, I'm just going to weave it into this topic, right?
19:01Just to get your thoughts.
19:03So a man's best friend is sleeping with his wife.
19:09A man's best friend.
19:10So a man has a best friend.
19:11Okay, okay.
19:12And the male, so both the man's best friend, call him John, and Jane are sleeping together.
19:18Okay.
19:18John is providing everything to his best friend, right?
19:28He's still there as his wingman.
19:29Anything that he's doing, whether he's working with him, Fridays, having beers, everything
19:34that he needs from his best friend is still there.
19:38The wife is providing everything to the husband as a wife should.
19:44Okay.
19:44Probably, maybe even better, probably, you know.
19:46Because she's happier now.
19:46She's happier.
19:47She's very guilty.
19:48She will enter like, hey, you know.
19:49Wow.
19:50So, is it being dishonest or deceitful?
19:54Yes.
19:54Are they being deceitful if all parties are now happy?
20:00And this was a question, and the initial answer to me was yes, automatically, that's deceit.
20:05But give it some pause.
20:07I would say no, simply because all parties don't have all the information.
20:10So, it can never be fully happiness all amongst.
20:14Because ignorance is bliss.
20:16But if it is I don't know that you're doing something to my family, am I actually happy?
20:22Because something, I'm still being good.
20:22Are you really being our best friend?
20:24No one definitely does.
20:26Are you being our wife?
20:27The brotherhood is there.
20:28So, we come down to the brotherhood.
20:31Everybody seemingly is happy, right?
20:34But there's deceit.
20:35So, therefore, we're talking about truth and consequences.
20:41And I brought that up because I wanted to segue just a bit.
20:44Just to find out where we're all at with regards to that.
20:48Because immediately to me, it's deceit.
20:50That's deceit.
20:52But, again, are they living their truth?
20:56No.
20:56I don't think they can be living their truth.
20:58Because are they willing to own up to the consequences?
21:02They're also not.
21:03That's why they are.
21:04That's why.
21:04You see.
21:05Are they being less of a man?
21:06That would deceit you use, right?
21:08I mean, I don't know the dictionary meaning of deceit.
21:10But deceit to me means some sort of concealing of the truth.
21:14Trickery.
21:14That's why.
21:15Ah, trickery.
21:16That's why you're deceiving somebody.
21:17You don't want them to see the truth of something.
21:21So, the mere fact that you're doing that is lying.
21:23Yeah.
21:24Right?
21:24Now, me, you saying this, I started to think about my own self in terms of, and not even
21:30necessarily within the marriage, but deceit in general, right?
21:34Because sometimes you want people to have a certain perception of you.
21:38Sometimes you don't want somebody to get vexed at you.
21:40So, you edit something you say, which all is deceit, you know?
21:45Because what was he saying?
21:47If you keep away information, right?
21:51That is also a lie.
21:52So, it's not necessarily change.
21:53Omission.
21:54That is it.
21:55Omission.
21:55If you omit something.
21:57We term it as, we give it.
21:59Lies by omission.
22:00Lies by omission.
22:01The terminology these days are white lies.
22:04Right.
22:04You see, again, you can't qualify.
22:06It's either it's a lie or it's a lie.
22:09So, even half the truth is a lie.
22:11Like people should live in full disclosure all the time.
22:14You think that is the ideal way.
22:16Full disclosure bringing my 100% authentic self to the room at all times.
22:21With the caveat of one, of the timing.
22:24Because don't give unsolicited.
22:26You don't have to walk around just telling people things, one.
22:29And then two, we said, say it with respect.
22:33So, what kind of old food do you bring for me here versus?
22:37I appreciate the effort you made, but the rice are a little too hard.
22:41If you understand what I'm saying.
22:43So, unadulterated truth, but with love or respect and not unsolicited.
22:50Not all information can be delivered that way.
22:52Some things are best left unsaid.
22:54And I want a presence that we are bringing up these topics, cheating and behaviors.
23:02Because we want to have a conversation.
23:04And, of course, you guys are not here in this moment.
23:08So, it's not the opinion shared specifically by any one person.
23:12But, I also wanted to draw away from just relationships.
23:16And just say men in general and their connection with consequence.
23:21And are we being man enough to always own up to that consequence?
23:25So, say for example, somebody painting by me.
23:29And something breaks.
23:32And you're telling yourself, well, this could possibly be taken out of my paycheck.
23:37So, instead of owning up and saying, hey, the boss, I break this.
23:43You try to conceal it.
23:44You try to hide it.
23:46Right?
23:47We do that in so many walks of life.
23:51That all of that is deceit.
23:53One, it's not owning up to your consequence.
23:56And it's in many ways not just that we are bad people.
23:59But sometimes, a lot of instances, you're doing this out of fear.
24:04You're cowards.
24:05We are cowards.
24:05We are in fear of losing our partner.
24:08In fear of the repercussions, be it losing your children.
24:13You know, having to pay palimony.
24:16In fear of, you know, having to come out of our paycheck.
24:21In fear of licks back in the day.
24:24You know what I mean?
24:24Corporal punishment.
24:26You know, I would come home and I would not, you know,
24:28probably sometimes show my report book because it's bella's.
24:32You know what I mean?
24:33And so, you know, let's talk about it from that perspective.
24:39Why are we cowards?
24:43Well, I have a different perspective of it.
24:46But I think I can give some scope, right?
24:48For me, I learned a long time ago that you could actually use the truth.
24:52And I used to wield the truth like a weapon, right?
24:55Whereas I realized a long time ago, there are a lot of things that most people don't like to talk about, especially men.
25:00You know, whether it's health reasons.
25:03A lot of men just keep how they feel about themselves.
25:06They're getting sick, you know, but they're trying to shield other people from not being worried or not, right?
25:10But I said all that to say is that I used to wield the truth like a weapon because I know I can make you feel uncomfortable just by bringing up something that you might normally have a conversation about publicly.
25:22Like I would say, yeah, I'm addicted to pornography and I have, you know, blah, blah.
25:26Most people can't deal with that in those situations.
25:29So me being able to say these things so willy-nilly, right, about myself and the vulnerability that most people keep to themselves, I realized that I could force people into situations, right?
25:40I could use my non-caringness about saying the truth and manipulate the situation or the person that's in front of me to my advantage because I know most of people operate out of fear.
25:53I know that.
25:54And that's how come I use that to get what I want.
25:58So I said all I have to say is when there's time for me not to tell the truth, you know, when I, I try not to lie, but when I, when I do is because, hmm, I talk myself into, into, into, into, into a hole there.
26:17Yes, yes, because I'm very interested now, I'm very interested as to the moments, the moments when you don't tell the truth.
26:24When I do lie, which is very rare, I always know that I could cover it up after with the truth.
26:31Does that make sense?
26:33Does that make sense to you?
26:34Yeah, yeah, yeah.
26:36It makes sense.
26:37It makes sense if I didn't work with you.
26:40And I would say that they didn't, they didn't know because if, if I didn't work with you, I'd say that makes sense because I can say, okay, well, you know, you've, you found a way to course, correct?
26:50And, and basically cover up.
26:52So we're still, it's still deceit because you're still finding a way later on to cover that up by then coming with something thereafter.
26:59But at the time you might say to me, for example, let's, let's be honest here, um, Rob, uh, I call, you know, Dory, I have, I have that covered with regards to a particular production.
27:10Right.
27:10Right.
27:10Um, the date, the date comes and passes and something comes up and you're like, uh, you might answer your phone, you know, I might get emailed because at that point you're course correcting, but then later on in the day come, boom, I have this done here.
27:26I solved the problem.
27:26So you're so, yeah, but you solve the problem by the time there was deceit because had you answered the phone at that particular point or had this particular scenario come or you say, Hey, Dory, I got the money.
27:41But then later on, no, you're going to ask the ball.
27:43I didn't have the money at the time.
27:44I have it.
27:45Right.
27:45I'll follow it.
27:46I'll follow it.
27:46So, so it is still covering up.
27:48There was still deceit at that particular moment because if these other situations didn't exist, then you'd have been caught in a lie.
27:55No, but would I have lied or said anything if it is, I couldn't, but you satisfy the, but again, what you're doing is you're telling yourself, you know, that five minutes from now you're going to be alive.
28:09Okay.
28:09I'm assuming I'm going to be assuming.
28:11And when you assume, you know, when you, you know, you say assumption, you make a answer.
28:14You are an option.
28:15Right.
28:16Right.
28:16But I could.
28:17So, so I am saying that there's still them deceit because at the time you knowingly knew you did not have the money or you didn't have the production ready.
28:26And even though you know that, Hey, you know what?
28:28I could go down the road and I could bump into Darren and I could get the money or I could go and get an interview with, with, with your handsy and I could come back and I could fix the situation.
28:37There's still a lie because the answer would have been, I don't have the money on me right now.
28:42I take ownership of that.
28:44Right.
28:45But this is, this is how I'm going to solve the problem.
28:48Don't stress yourself.
28:50Or as they say, local parlance, don't hurt up your head.
28:52Right.
28:53I'm going down the road and I'm going to get the money from Darren.
28:55So my question to you, and this can be applied to everything, right?
28:58In that situation where, whether it's your wife or whether it's your boss or whoever it is talking to you, you saying the truth is going to stress the person, is going to, you understand?
29:09No, it can stress them.
29:09And you think it's an unnecessary stress in that moment because you could go and handle the scene and fix the things.
29:15It could be, I could agree with that point.
29:19If it's not necessary at the moment, why are you putting you through that stress, you know?
29:23But it is solicited is what I'm trying to say because Johansi talks about unsolicited.
29:27In this case, it's solicited because you're actually asking, Niall, where's the money?
29:32Oh, he answered the phone, he answered the phone, go ahead.
29:35And yeah, in this case, yeah.
29:36Yeah, let's just say, I shouldn't answer it.
29:38But it has deceit as well because you're also knowing you're not answering the phone because you haven't delivered.
29:44So deceit, deceit passively, deceit, you know, consciously or subconsciously, it's still deceit.
29:53But you know you're not answering the phone because you would be forced at that point to tell a lie, right?
29:59So I'm saying that solicited, he's now asking, do you have the money?
30:04And you're going to say, yes, I do.
30:07So if I avoid him to tell a lie, that's still part of deceit?
30:11But that's still deceit.
30:13Think about that.
30:13Because I don't want to lie to you.
30:17So what did Johanse ask you just now about what's the word?
30:20Omission?
30:21That's what you're doing.
30:23Because if a woman is asking me something, I segue and I could answer all the other questions that politicians do very well.
30:29That is true.
30:30Right?
30:30That is true.
30:31I can't have a term for that, you know, I can't remember.
30:34It's like if I ask you something, let's say I ask you, you bring the juice for me,
30:39but you know you didn't bring the juice, but you tell me all the other things you do, right?
30:42To kind of pacify what I did.
30:44The answer is no, you didn't bring the juice for me.
30:47He says, well, I bring the food and the phone and the etc, etc, etc.
30:51So that is still a lie.
30:54Sounds like a bit of manipulation.
30:56Yeah, I'm not sure if it's quite a lie because it's not that you're bending the truth, right?
31:00You didn't deceive the person, but you're not answering the question.
31:04So because you ask about avoidance.
31:06But I mean, those could be two sides of different coins, but it's the same concept that Robert
31:13is coming with.
31:14Are we going with whether we have the b**** and the strength to face the truth?
31:19The point is, do you have the money?
31:22I don't want to cut you because I want you to throw, but the word you're looking for is
31:25diversion.
31:26Diversion?
31:27Yes, yes, yes, yes.
31:28Right.
31:28Or create a diversion to get away from action.
31:31It's diversion.
31:31So somebody comes up with something and you're now saying all the other things.
31:37No, that's not the way there, but that's a good way too.
31:39That is a good way too.
31:40So what Robert was asking is, as men, do we have the courage to face our truth, whatever
31:47that truth is?
31:49And I would say that's a real good question.
31:51And I even consider it because I know, even for myself, I don't have the courage to face
31:55the truth in every situation.
31:56But I was going to say sometimes.
31:58I don't think, who have the courage to face all of the truths, all the things that are
32:02going to encounter in this life?
32:03That is God.
32:05That is like being God-like, being perfect.
32:07I think that's a constant journey.
32:10That is my aim, boy.
32:11To be able to speak more truth, or at all times with love, with respect, not unsolicited,
32:17and also face the truth because I realize the truth is the truth, you know?
32:21Because when we deny the truth, or we divert from the truth, we put ourselves in our fantasy
32:27world, and then we put ourselves at a disadvantage to face in the world better, to really gain
32:33the success that we want.
32:35Yeah, I think it has to do with power too, like how much power you have as a man in terms
32:39of how much things you have to lose or not lose.
32:42For example, that whole thing about breaking something in the office, it might be easy
32:46for you to do because you know you're working CNC, you know?
32:49But a lesser man who don't have maturity, he mightn't be able to do it that easy because
32:54he could get cut easily, and they can't cut you easily because you're a robot at the end
32:58of the day, you know?
32:59Same thing with me.
33:00I could go on a stage and probably fumble that line or something and still get called
33:03back to do a gig because of my work that preceded me.
33:07And my younger poet might not be able to do that.
33:09They might make a mistake and that is it for them.
33:11So it's harder for them to own that moment than me.
33:14So I think there are a lot of factors that contribute into how much consequence you could
33:18take, you know?
33:19I like that.
33:20And that's a good point before we go to the break, right?
33:24Right to the break.
33:26Truth and facing the consequences of it and to consider what we really have to lose or may
33:32lose in terms of telling and facing that truth.
33:35So thank you for staying with us here on Manhood, Johanse, Darren, Niall.
33:51We're talking about men and the truth.
33:54Can you tell the truth?
33:55Can you handle the truth?
33:57You can handle the truth.
34:00Big line.
34:00Big line.
34:01And it's a serious one.
34:03It leads to so many different things.
34:05And are we man enough to tell the truth?
34:08If you've been unfaithful, if you've done something wrong in life, at work, what does
34:17it take?
34:17Are we men?
34:18Are we cowards?
34:19Why?
34:20That's what we're trying to figure out here.
34:21Why can't we simply tell the truth?
34:24And sometimes, you know, which is the truth?
34:26The truth sets you free because a lot of times when you do tell the truth, even though there
34:31are consequences, there's a part of you, whether it's the part that connects with the
34:35universe, feels free, feels liberated.
34:38That's what we started with.
34:40Suppression.
34:40Suppression.
34:42But let's talk about that phrase.
34:45You know, we hear it all the time.
34:47Cognitive dissonance.
34:49I don't know what that means.
34:50Cognitive dissonance.
34:52So basically, you know smoking bad fear, right?
34:56But yet still, you want to do it anyway.
34:57Ignoring it.
34:58So you know you want to be healthy, but you don't want to exercise.
35:02So it's yin and yanging.
35:06And so forth, you want a healthy relationship, right?
35:10But you're doing something that's unhealthy.
35:12Opposite.
35:12That you know that is not going to enhance your relationship anyway.
35:17It's only going to, whether it's your karma, whether it's, you know, going to give you
35:21an STD, whatever the case may be, it is not going to impact your relationship in a healthy
35:26way.
35:27So cognitive dissonance.
35:29That's a good one.
35:30Go ahead, Nadine.
35:30You know, I was going to say it's cognitive dissonance.
35:33But like at the same time, the flesh of a man is a thing that has desire, certain things.
35:38So as much as you want the stable relationship, you still have lust and desire and that kind
35:44of thing.
35:45So it's like almost a dichotomy of mine rather than cognitive dissonance.
35:50Where you want, my wife also want this girl here.
35:53And if I get the opportunity for that girl, I'll take it.
35:56You know, because you want that too, as much as we can't deny the fact that when you, when
36:01you go and sleep with somebody outside a relationship, it's not because you didn't want to do it.
36:06Right.
36:07I don't think people didn't, I didn't want to sleep down my trip and fall and thing.
36:10No, it's something that we actually desire there.
36:14So now I think it's less cognitive dissonance for managing how you, which, which desire you're
36:20going to set prominence on.
36:22And it's like economies are scale.
36:24You had to lose something.
36:25And as a man, I had to be willing to lose something.
36:28I'd be willing to lose the, the fast food.
36:30If that is the case.
36:31Yes.
36:31I like fast food and I want it, but I'd be willing to lose it.
36:34And that is where the strength of mine comes.
36:36I think understanding that, yeah, I can't have everything.
36:40But, but why, Darren?
36:41What, why are, why are we not built that way?
36:44Why, why is there, whether it's only white lie, the half, the truth, you know, Niall talks
36:50about, you know, he wants to tell the truth, but in, in, in other situations that notice,
36:54he also said, he doesn't always do it.
36:56And why don't we always tell the truth?
36:58Why, why, where is that?
37:00Where is that cowardly behavior stemming from?
37:03Where is that?
37:04Because that's what it is.
37:05It's cowardly.
37:06You're afraid of.
37:07I was thinking about it one time because it's not all men, right?
37:11I'll give you an example.
37:13So let's use Trinidad, Trinbegonian men, right?
37:15Trinidad, Trinbegonians in general, we don't tell the truth.
37:18We have all kinds of euphemisms, right?
37:21So how, how far you are right around the corner, right?
37:25I just gave an example.
37:26We have a lot of euphemism, whether it is males and females use it, but let's use males
37:30in this, this instance.
37:31And I remember, because it's not all men in the world like this, I had a Trinidad
37:37who was dating a Russian girl and she kept saying, why he just not telling the truth?
37:43Because Russian men just say what they want now.
37:45Why he just always kind of beat around the bush or gave her pretty well.
37:49She just wants to know what he wants to do.
37:52I remember when he told me that, and it helped me even put into perspective, because we are
37:57using Trinidad, Trinidad, because that's what I'm most familiar with.
38:00We have a way with this euphemized thing.
38:02I'll tell you how deep it goes.
38:05And I think I shared this on another episode of manhood, where it have some men who will
38:10horn the wife instead of telling her the truth.
38:13So he's not attracted to her anymore.
38:16He's not saying anything, but he don't want to hurt her feelings, but end up being attracted
38:19to somebody else.
38:20So he do all of that, not to hurt her feelings and really believe that, you know.
38:25Just like when you see, for example, are right around the corner.
38:28It's because you just don't want to come out and say, hey, I'm running late or I'll leave
38:34home already.
38:35You're not going to shower.
38:36But time management was poor.
38:37But time management, the ownership of it.
38:39But it still comes from a level of fear, be it fear that you really are afraid of somebody
38:44or just fear that listen to that.
38:45If I tell my brother, listen, I'm not going to shower.
38:47He might bust out and leave me.
38:49Or he might get upset.
38:50So you're still in, there's still levels of fear, but you're still in fear of something
38:55as to why you're not telling the truth.
38:57And I say, it could be something cultural.
38:59I mean, we could dig deeper into why and go back.
39:02I mean, I don't think we have the answer for that now, but Trinbigonian men in general,
39:06right?
39:06And I could say this because of the, a lot of men I've dealt with.
39:11I deal with all men in Trinidad and Tobago.
39:13But even instead of talking to my wife or dealing with my family, I go by the rum shop.
39:17Instead of X, Y, Z, I go in the casino.
39:20Instead of X, Y, Z, I smoke weed.
39:21Instead of facing the things, I find all these salves, all these vices, all these things.
39:28And that's why he could have a rum shop on every corner because a lot of men just, I don't
39:31want to face it.
39:32So I'd rather go there than face it.
39:35So let me put this, you know, this is the final segment.
39:37So let me put this other one to you, right?
39:40Most people know or should know, right?
39:42And you may come across comedic, but most people know or should know Manchester United
39:47is the best club in the world, right?
39:50However, if you are a Manchester City fan or supported any other club, you might feel
39:55like, listen, I have to say that because I don't want to feel left out, right?
40:02So I'm saying that the people are afraid to sometimes speak up for being left out as
40:07in not being a leader.
40:08You know, sometimes it's easier to follow than to walk the other way.
40:12And I'm saying that instead of owning up and saying, yes, I agree with you, right?
40:18It is, I'm using the club as a tongue-in-cheek there from, you know, FIFA.
40:22But it's true, Manchester United is the best football club, right?
40:25But the reality is people will be, if you really believe you're a Manchester City fan,
40:32I'm sorry for you, but if you really believe that, rather than say, I am a Manchester City
40:36fan, you'd rather go along with the masses or not say anything at all in order to fit in.
40:45Our part of our fear is not fitting in.
40:47You know, they say there's two things that we are born to want, you know, the desire to
40:51be loved and to be enough.
40:53And a lot of that is where I believe that fear stems from because sometimes you telling
40:58the truth is going to lead you to be isolated, to be rejected, to be on your own, to not
41:05probably not get the woman, the woman decide to leave you, all of these other things as
41:08a result of that.
41:09That is true.
41:10And that's a real concern.
41:12And I mean, I have faced this, I face this in many aspects of my life going through my
41:17life.
41:17And as you say in it, I realize that that cowardice is what prevents the world from
41:24moving forward.
41:26Because all of the inventions and innovations that I say that men did, right?
41:30I'm not speaking about men here.
41:33Is because they took a leap of faith, because they tried and decided to do something different.
41:38Went against the status quo.
41:40From everyone else.
41:41So whether it's a thought, whether it's a song, whether it's a type of poem, whatever it
41:46is, even the theories in psychology, a lot of them people, they used to call mad men
41:50before.
41:50Nah, Freud and Adler and all these psychologists.
41:53They used to say they're mad before.
41:54Now it's the textbooks you're reading.
41:56So I say that because I realize in that, and I'm not sure we could explore again, where
42:02this came from in us men, because we now can't, would not be leaders if we are afraid,
42:09if we are afraid to do something.
42:10Because even though you and I, let's say, have the same profession, you have your own style,
42:14I have my own style, and we're rubbing the wool of it by trying to be the same, by being
42:19afraid.
42:19I know it's easier said than done, but I really glad you bring this up.
42:26Darren, tell me your thoughts.
42:27Yeah.
42:28At the same time, one might easily say it's the same cowardice that keeps the world going
42:32to it.
42:34The fact that people let them own up to stuff.
42:36And we might have lost leaders in the past that we never knew we might have lost.
42:43We might have lost so many things that we never knew existed.
42:46Probably we live in behind a lot of smoke and mirrors in that kind of way, just because
42:50people keeping the truth back.
42:52To avoid consequence, to avoid the consequence of probably the world just going haywire.
42:58And we will never know some of these things we might never know.
43:00But it comes down to the, to me, it comes down to how you want to live as a person, as
43:07a man in particular.
43:08How do I want to live with the people around me?
43:10Right?
43:10Do I want my colleagues to have this perception of me that is not true?
43:16And if that falls through a day, what does that do to them?
43:19Right?
43:19I might be leading these people as a fake for so many years when they find out what does
43:23that do to them.
43:24Because as much as we want to be loved, the fact that we're born that way is because we're
43:28born, we're not living alone, we can't exist in isolation.
43:32So if, if you existing in a comfortable way, coming from a place of dishonesty, I really
43:38think that is something to go inside yourself and, and dissect.
43:41And you have to decide how I'm going to start to present my most authentic self.
43:46You know, and sometimes you might even need a plan for it because you know, when I start
43:50revealing these things, certain things are going to happen.
43:53It's not something, yeah, it's not something I think you could jump into and I'll never
43:58present it as something that, yeah, I could just wake up and be more authentic self immediately
44:02in, in this particular kind of, it's process.
44:05That will stir up your world.
44:07Yeah, it will, it will turn your world upside down.
44:09It's a process.
44:10Um, it's some, some very hard conversations you have to have with yourself.
44:15Um, some, and people are going to be prepared to be disappointed.
44:19What, what do we understand, gents, as we come to a close?
44:22What do we understand by truth?
44:24What do we understand by the, the, the moments?
44:27Cause there are moments to reveal the truth, not to, not living in your truth.
44:33Cause you can always live in your truth, but there are moments to reveal the truth, how
44:36you deliver the truth, if solicited, sometimes unsolicited is sometimes best at that point
44:42in terms of, you don't, you don't always have to say something.
44:45I might go, I might be thinking, Hey, I hate that jacket, right?
44:49But, or, or that you shave your beard, but I'm not, I'm not, I don't have to tell you
44:53that cause it's, it's, it's unnecessary, you know?
44:56Um, and, and let, let, let's draw a reference to a, a leader of a country, say Area 51.
45:05If they were to come out and see what is happening in Area 51, right?
45:11You know, I think it's John F. Kennedy said it, um, where it is not, it is not the person,
45:17it's the masses.
45:18So saying it to a person sitting down and explaining to them is different than if they had to make
45:23a, make an announcement about it, because then all the Chinese whispers and all these
45:28things start and people, you know, I heard so on, so on, and then, you know, mass hysteria.
45:32So, in that case, holding back the truth is for the safety of humanity.
45:41So there are, what I'm saying coming down to is there are moments then, that the truth
45:46should not be revealed.
45:49And I think that also goes for individually.
45:51There are things that my, my son may do and I could tell him the truth at the time,
45:56but what am I gaining from that?
45:59There's, there's, there's, I do, I still don't believe and I don't subscribe to the fact
46:03that there's still a way to say certain things.
46:05Certain things are best left unsaid.
46:07And that's, that, that's my, my position on it.
46:11Um, not my closing statement, but that's my position.
46:15I like the, I like that, I like that point you brought up with the, the leader, right?
46:20And I do believe that leaders should tell the truth.
46:23However, I do understand that not all, not everyone deserves the truth when they want
46:30it, you understand what I'm saying?
46:32They still deserve it at some point, but sometimes some people just want it before it's time for
46:37them to actually have access to the truth now or any way that they may want it.
46:42So, you know, I really like that point that you brought up, but holistically.
46:48Take us to your closing comments, won't I?
46:50I'll take it to your closing.
46:51Um, the truth is a path.
46:54And as Darren said, to walk upon, sometimes they might take a step off, you know, because
47:00you have to keep your balance because it is a, it is a work in progress.
47:04But I feel that once you're truthful with yourself, as in, I understand when I get upset, I understand
47:10my triggers.
47:11I understand what I'm scared of because not everybody have the same fear.
47:15Um, and only then I could now apply me being truthful to myself, to the world and their
47:23interpretation of what the truth is at that point.
47:25So in other words, I do have to tell my girl that she looking fat in her dress, really and
47:30truly.
47:30But if it is that I am doing my truthful due diligence, she would never even have to ask
47:35me that question.
47:36Um, that's how I look at it.
47:38All right.
47:39All right.
47:39All right.
47:39Yeah.
47:40I think, I think that the, the truth has weight, obvious consequence.
47:45And as a result of that, I think the truth must be managed with tact and integrity.
47:50Um, and for each, each person must decide how that tact and integrity going to be applied
47:57in their particular situations, in each particular situation.
48:00It is not the easiest thing, obviously, at certain times, some things more easier than,
48:05than others, but it's not the easiest thing.
48:07So you have to apply tact, deep thought, um, to the decisions you're going to make and your
48:12own process of living your truth.
48:16Darren, I agree with what you're saying in terms of each man have to have their own path.
48:20And it even made me think about what my path is.
48:23I know that a lot of my life, I live suppressing, suppressing the truth.
48:31And, um, psychologist Jordan, Dr. Jordan Peterson said there are consequences to telling
48:36the truth and consequences to not telling the truth and seeing that each man have to choose
48:40their path.
48:41My path is to be able to face the truth with courage.
48:45It may not be easy at all times, but also, and also be able to, to say my truth with love
48:52and respect.
48:53And also when it's solicited, because making sure that he intends is not to hurt someone,
48:58as you said, with responsibility.
49:00So that's my path.
49:03Mine is, mine is very simple.
49:05What, what is your truth?
49:08Be your truth, live in your own truth, whatever that may be.
49:11Because the truth is, a lie is really covering your true feelings to get out of something,
49:19to avoid having to do something.
49:22So that's what you're really living in if you're living in that particular lie.
49:26And the honest truth is, and I'll wrap up of this particular segment is, the truth indeed
49:33sets you free.
49:34Mm-hmm.
49:35That is the truth.
49:37That is the truth.
49:38That is the truth.
49:39Johansi, Darren, Niall, thank you for yet another really impactful and powerful conversation.
49:47You know, let's live in our truth.
49:49Yes, as men.
49:50As best as we can.
49:52Manhood, brought to you in part by Reboot Sports Drink.