WRIF Virtual Rock Room with Harem Scarem's Harry Hess
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00:00Thank you so much for watching Riff TV. Now this interview is obviously with video, but I don't
00:05interview everybody on Zoom. That's why I put it on my Talkin' Rock with Meltdown podcast. We talk
00:10to rock artists from all over the genre. So check out Talkin' Rock with Meltdown wherever you get
00:15your podcasts. And now to today's video interview. Hey Harry, good to make your acquaintance. How are
00:22you? I'm doing great, thanks. You're up there in Toronto. You got a lot of things happening in the
00:27world, eh? Well, yeah, as usual, you know, trying to stay busy, working away. We've got this 30-year
00:35anniversary release of Mood Swings that's out now. So yeah, keeping busy with all that. Yeah, when
00:44that record came out, I mean, vinyl was kind of on the downturn. Now it sounds like you gotta have
00:48everything in vinyl. It's hilarious. You know, we're getting lots of requests from people. Hey,
00:53when are you going to release this on vinyl? When are you going to do that? And I was talking
00:57to a couple other musician friends and it was like, if you were putting out records like
01:03anywhere between like 1990 and I'll even say like early 2000s, like none of those records
01:09were ever released on vinyl. So think of your favorite artists that, you know, these iconic
01:13records that now are being re-released, re-issued from like literally like a decade of records
01:22coming out all over the world. Like the biggest artists in the world are now just kind of getting
01:26around to looking at their catalog and re-issuing it on vinyl. So a huge resurgence for people that
01:33don't know, like vinyl actually eclipsed CD sales last year for the first time since like 1982 or
01:41something like that. So wild, wild stuff going on. Yeah. But so yeah, we're hopping on that bandwagon
01:47and we're putting out our first ever vinyl version of Mood Swings. Now that the first record came out
01:53in 1991, correct? Yeah, that's right. Okay. So talk about Mood Swings here for a second because
01:59well, first of all, for people who never heard Harem Scareem. Yeah. I got my, I got my like
02:05impressions of what you guys sound like and where you kind of are placed in the world. What to tell
02:09somebody about your band that's never heard your band. Well, you know what? We started off
02:13literally as teenagers and in the late eighties and we were kind of just playing music that we
02:20heard on the radio. And at that time, oddly enough, it was like Whitesnake, Bon Jovi, Def
02:25Leppard. So in my years of just starting out playing in a band and just kind of playing what
02:31was popular, it was what's considered now classic rock. Right. And so that's what we were doing.
02:38And then, you know, as we got our record deal in the early nineties, put on our first record
02:43in 91 and it was pretty much straight ahead, pop rock kind of thing in that sense. But then
02:49veered into, dare I say, even the grungy era, we were influenced by it. We actually kind of
02:57liked it, which was not cool for a long haired band to like the thing that came and kind of
03:04killed rock. Right. You know, so it was a weird, uh, position to be in, but I loved Alice in Chains,
03:10love Soundgarden and love that stuff. And of course, huge fan of classic rock as well.
03:17So I just liked what I thought was good. It didn't matter like kind of what you called it.
03:22But, uh, so we went through a bunch of, uh, iterations of, of what we even were as a band,
03:28how we sounded. We never really broke and did like, you know, crazy gangbusters, uh, you know,
03:35business ever. So we were left in a position where we felt like we can kind of do whatever
03:40we want because it's not like anyone has any expectations of who we are and what we do.
03:45Right. Which was kind of cool. Um, so we, we ran the gamut. We did like everything from like,
03:52what sounded like from Metallica to Queen to super, you know, poppy uptempo kind of happy
04:00sounding stuff. So we did it all over, you know, the 30 plus years that we've been putting out
04:06records. And now it's settled into more kind of like what's on mood swings, which was our second
04:12record. And that was, that was the one that did the best for us internationally on our first record.
04:17We had like, we came out in Canada, Spain, and Portugal. And by the end of mood swings,
04:22we're out in over 50 countries. So that was a big leap for us. And, uh, most people heard of us
04:30first on our second record. Yeah. I was going to ask you about that because like, when I listened
04:35to this, I kind of, I kind of hear some honeymoon suite and I hear some of the stuff that was around
04:39the time, like the alarm, uh, the Hooters, that kind of stuff, like kind of that rock pop genre.
04:44And, and then I was going to say, so 1993 comes along. And by then like grunge was really,
04:49that was really the thing that was going in 1993. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, so that really put the
04:57kibosh on us getting any kind of radio support or action at that time, because everything just
05:03shifted. Uh, fortunately because of the band coming out in over 50 countries, we had tons of support in
05:11Europe and specifically Asia, Japan, the old classic were big in Japan. Uh, and, and the
05:18Philippines, we had a gold record in the Philippines because they loved rock ballads. And so on our
05:24first record, we had a couple of rock ballads and it just did really, really well. And to this day,
05:29um, you know, it, they're our biggest territory. So on one hand, it kind of ended for us rather
05:37quickly in North America, but just continued and flourish in Europe and Asia, which was not
05:44a normal thing. Right. So we kept doing what we were doing because most bands that were doing what
05:49we were doing that time got dropped. They weren't even making records anymore. And we just kept going
05:54and here we are literally, uh, 30 something years later. Yeah. They say like, what's old is new again,
05:59but you know, it's like, uh, Mr. Big does the same thing. It's like, uh, you know, they'll play here
06:03for maybe theaters or smaller theaters. Then they go overseas. They're playing arenas.
06:07Well, I, I happened to be in Malaysia working on a record once and, uh, Mr. Big,
06:13they were on Warner as well. And, uh, they said, Oh, you know, we're actually seeing the same hotel.
06:18So he's like, Oh, you should come up to the show tonight. So I go and it's a frigging stadium and
06:22there's 40,000 people. Yeah. So I know exactly what you mean. And those guys would tour Japan.
06:28They would do like 10 dates in Japan and yeah, just kill it. Yeah. Buddha con the, you know,
06:34the classic vibe. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, so tell me the status, status of the band right now. Where
06:40are you guys at? Well, um, you know, we want to do something for this 30 year anniversary release.
06:46So we, we, you know, released this on vinyl. We also, uh, included a CD in the package where we did
06:52five acoustic bonus tracks. So we just did that now in 2023. Um, and we've actually signed on to
07:00do some live dates at the end of the year. We're doing a festival in Belgium, heading back to
07:05Portugal, possibly Spain. Uh, that usually when we hit Europe, we'll do like anywhere between 10 to
07:1415 dates out there. And we've been doing that forever and, and possibly Japan again, but we'll
07:21probably come back and maybe work on a new record. If that's in the cards. I was going to say, you got
07:26to, you got to play a multiple dates out there just to make it financially worth it. Right.
07:29Oh, absolutely. I mean, if you're going to bother even rehearsing and learning a set, you know,
07:34like we're not on the road all the time is as an ongoing band or entity. So we get together when we
07:40book a tour, we rehearse, we literally relearn our own songs because it's easy to forget. And so,
07:47yeah, you got to get into a rehearsal hall and go, Oh yeah, that's what this does.
07:50And we go out, we play a bunch of warmup shows around here. Then we head off to Europe or Asia
07:55and, uh, kind of make the most of it because yeah, if you're going to bother flying all the
08:00way over to Europe, you want to hang there for at least a few weeks to make it worth your while.
08:05And it's fun too. We've, uh, strategically picked our moments and our places where we like to go.
08:11So, you know, Spain, Portugal, Italy, especially around the winter time, it's a, it's a good hang,
08:16good fun for us. Yeah. I was just talking with someone, uh, uh, Jared, uh, weeks from
08:21saving able the other day. And it's like, you know, their music has allowed them to go all
08:25over the world and play for the troops and whatnot, but, but your, your music being able
08:28to take you all over the world. That's cool. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, really, really fortunate,
08:32really lucky. And even at a young age, like in, you know, in our early twenties,
08:36starting to tour the world and because we did well internationally, obviously we got
08:41offers to play and, um, yeah, there aren't a lot of countries where, you know, that I
08:47haven't been to. So, uh, yeah, consider myself fortunate for sure.
08:51That's killer. So, uh, you know, I, I, uh, I grew up in Buffalo and then I've been here
08:55since 1995 in Detroit. So I've always had like that kind of that Canadian, the kind of
08:59thing like bleeding in, especially back when I grew up in Buffalo. Cause you know, you had
09:02your Kim Mitchell's and, uh, tragically hips and Kony and all those bands right
09:07there. And of course I remember hearing about a harem scarum as well. So did you
09:11guys, you guys must have toured a lot in Canada back in the nineties, correct?
09:14We did. I think we, we crossed the country multiple times on our first two
09:19records. We even did a couple of tours with, uh, April wine. They were another
09:26classic Canadian rock band and, and did a bunch of shows on our own as well. So yeah,
09:31I mean, you know, opening slots, uh, little, uh, larger club headlining things. And we did
09:39that solid for yeah, years and years and years and even pre our record deal. That's, that's
09:44what you did. Right. So if you were in a band, even a quote unquote bar band back in
09:49the day, that's what you did. You got in a van, you traveled across the country and in
09:54Canada, let me tell you, that is not fun. Uh, you know, even once we had our record deal
10:00and we're selling records, you know, getting from Calgary to Edmonton and then your next
10:05gigs in Vancouver, you're literally driving 18 hours. And sometimes you would just make
10:09it to soundcheck from leaving the last gig. And you, you drove like, you know, whatever
10:1415 hours to get to the next gig. And when you're in Europe, sometimes you're driving an hour,
10:20two hours and you're in the next country. And you know, there's millions of people there.
10:25Like, so it, Canada is about the toughest place on the planet to tour, just physically
10:31getting from spot to spot. And then a lot of times you're doing it in the winter and
10:36it's not the worst. Yeah, no doubt. The worst, absolutely worst driving through the mountains
10:41in a Winnebago with no snow tires sliding down a hill. It's awesome.
10:47Yeah. Um, you know, I, you know, there, there's no like physical wall between America and Canada,
10:52but why is it that some bands, uh, seem to seep into America and just find success and
10:58some don't? Well, I mean, even for us, like, like yourself living on a border country, you
11:04would get Canadian radio stations, right? So what I would hear from people is they say,
11:09oh yeah, you know, I grew up in Buffalo or Detroit or whatever. And they say, I heard you
11:15guys on the radio. So if we were signed to Warner, which we were, but if we didn't get an American
11:21release through Warner, then American radio stations weren't, you know, aware that we
11:26even existed other than the border cities. And, um, that was true of every country. So,
11:32you know, if you're signed to a multinational company, like a Warner universal or Sony, it's
11:38really up to the individual territory, whether they want to release your record or not. So
11:43you're literally at the whim of somebody there in the international marketing department that
11:49decides this will do well, that won't do well. I like this. I don't like that. And that's really
11:54what it came down to at the end of the day. So we never got released in America through the first
12:0011 years of being in a band. It wasn't until we went indie that we started doing licensing deals
12:06all around the world, like the UK and America, the two biggest territories for what we do never
12:14released us in the first 11 years of our career. So yeah, we were up against it.
12:19Yeah. Well, you know, even, even a band like tragically hip, you know, as, as legendary as
12:24they were in, in Canada, I think they'd go down to like maybe Kentucky or Texas or somewhere and
12:29play small theaters, you know, but in Canada, they just, they were monsters.
12:34Yeah, that's right. And I mean, of course, you know, every band wants to break in America,
12:38no matter where you're from. And the competition is just, you know, it's huge, right? So signing a
12:47deal in Canada is not something I would recommend if you're trying to break internationally, right?
12:52Because the, just the incentive for the American companies to get involved and a band that signed
12:57in Canada, where, you know, it's a numbers game and a money thing. At that point, I can,
13:03I can report after all these years, but at the time, you know, when you're a teenager and you're
13:09signing a record deal, you literally don't care. Like I didn't care. I just wanted to make records.
13:14I wanted to go out and play and the money was just secondary or however the career, you know,
13:21path would take us. It didn't really matter to me at the time. And as a kid though, growing up in
13:26Canada, like I'm sure some bands here in Detroit, it's like, I want to be big in Detroit or I want to
13:30be big in Toronto or something. Then you get older, you're like, man, I missed out on that or,
13:35you know, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. Hindsight's 2020, right? So yeah,
13:40no, that's exactly true. And yeah, as you get older and you figure out how these things work and
13:46maybe what you should have done, but I think that's true of almost everything in life, right? Like you
13:51kind of figure it out along the way, but in the music business, it's, you know, you're most valuable
13:57when you're younger, right? You have the most to offer to record companies and people want to get
14:03involved. And that's why you see a lot of, you know, pop artists. They're not 50 year old men.
14:09Yeah. Yeah. Driving a station wagon that are taking over the pop world, but that's for sure. Yeah. No
14:14question about that. So you've had a chance to work with some pretty legendary bands and you know,
14:20one of which I know that you've worked with three days grace. I've talked with these guys about this
14:24before too. And I think that their deal, they signed it. Don't quote me on this, but I think
14:27their deal was a Canadian and American deal through their company. But yeah, well, actually in my
14:33studio, we developed, uh, uh, they did all their early demos in my studio. And, uh, so those guys
14:40I've known literally, they, they looked like they were 12 years old when they first showed up in my
14:45studio and, uh, and started doing their demos, but yeah, they did a co-deal, which, uh, which worked
14:50out very well for a lot of Canadian bands where you had an American counterpart that was also
14:55invested in the group and the wellbeing of, you know, how it would go. So those guys have done
15:01incredibly well. And, uh, and yeah, yeah. A great Canadian success story in the rock world for sure.
15:08Yeah. I'm going to see those guys on a Monday when they, they open up their tour with a shine down
15:11here in Michigan and guys, I love those guys, but who else have you worked with that, that we would
15:17know? Well, I mean, you know, my studio oddly enough, so I bought, um, a studio, uh, from a guy
15:25named Arnold Lanny about 25 years ago, I've had my own studio forever, but the one that I bought
15:30particularly, he, he did all the, uh, early Our Lady Peace records and, uh, finger 11 was another band
15:38that he did in there that did really well. And then when I took it over just a lot of friends that
15:43were producers, engineers love the room and wanted to come and work there. So three days,
15:48grace was one Billy talent was another one that was developed out, uh, in my studio. Uh, over the
15:54years we've done, uh, some other names you might know. Big rec is another Canadian rock band blue
16:00rodeos. Another one, great big C I'm just rattling off some Canadian acts. And again, yeah, Our Lady
16:06Peace, those first two records. The second one clumsy was one of the biggest selling records in Canadian
16:12music history. Like it's like well over a million records, which is a diamond selling record in
16:18Canada. So yeah, quite a list. And we even had Muse in there. They cut a single and, uh, yeah. So
16:24some really cool stuff over the years. Yeah, that is cool. You know, um, uh, when I lost my job in
16:29Buffalo, I actually auditioned at 97.7 hits FM. Okay. Yeah. I actually played the rainbow butt monkeys.
16:35Well, that was finger 11. Yeah. You know, the inside scoop on that one. I wonder why they changed
16:43their name. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So they were, yeah. So they were one of the ones out there too. Yeah.
16:48Look, when you think about it over the years, like Canada for having like, you know, I guess we're
16:54around 30 something million now. Uh, when you think of, you know, Brian Adams, Shania Twain,
17:00like just some of the iconic records that have come out of Canada that sold 20 million records
17:06around the world. Like we, we do pretty good. We punch above our weight, I think, uh, with a lot of,
17:12uh, the acts that come out and do well internationally. So yeah, I'm happy to say a lot of
17:17them have worked in my studio and I've mastered a lot of records as well that, uh, that were played
17:23all over hits FM back in the day. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Don't forget about, uh, my friends and
17:28Nickelback, but you guys can keep Justin Bieber. Okay. You can have him good old Biebs. Yeah.
17:33There's another guy that sold a lot of records. I forgot all about him. Yeah. So, uh, so what,
17:37what kind of circles did you run with back in the late eighties, early nineties, as far as bands,
17:41were you, were you friends? I mean, was there this scene in Toronto? Cause I know a lot of bands
17:46came out of the killer dwarfs and Coney hatch and I'm sure there's a billion of them I've forgotten
17:50about, but what other kinds of bands were you running with? Yeah, that's, that's exactly right
17:54of that era because you know, it, if you're playing downtown Toronto, you're either going to see those
18:00bands or, or you just run into them on the road or playing a festival or doing a date where there's
18:06four or five of those acts on the roster. So, um, yeah, even Andy Curran and Coney hatch, uh, you know,
18:13I reminded him, I go, yeah, you know what? Like I was 15, 16 years old and we opened for Coney hatch
18:19in Oshawa, Ontario. And he's like, Oh yeah, I remember that gig. And so somehow somewhere along
18:25the way, you would definitely run into any Canadian rock band that was doing what you were doing. And
18:31the scene was very, very vibrant in the, you know, mid to late eighties and early nineties.
18:37It's what everybody my age did. So if you were 17 to 20 something, whatever, uh, you were going to
18:45clubs and, and seeing rock bands and live music, that's what you did. Now there's a lot of other
18:50things that people do, but, uh, by back then that was it. That's all you did. Right.
18:55Yeah, no doubt. It, I, I suppose you either, uh, went to clubs and watch bands or played hockey,
19:00right? Is that the two? That's exactly right. Or try to do both.
19:04Or yeah. Yeah. Some of you guys think that you're a hockey stars right now.
19:07Yeah. Well, that's, that's, we tried the theory of a dead man guys. They play hockey. I'm trying to
19:12think of who else I played. Um, yeah, I haven't played hockey with those guys yet. Uh, Mark from
19:16dirty honey. Have you ever heard of dirty honey? No, I've heard of the, I've heard the name,
19:20but I don't know them. Great hockey player. He's a, I played hockey with him a few times,
19:24but, um, but yeah, I remember though, like I said, growing up in that music would bleed over
19:29into the States with the Kim Mitchell and stuff. And, uh, yeah. And I'm trying to remember what
19:34other bands were there around there in the late eighties I'm missing. Um, there were some local
19:40bands that did well in Ontario again, uh, slick toxic. I remember that. Then Gally was another
19:47one. Uh, there there's still, I mean, I know Sven Gally is just putting out a new record now
19:53and stuff like that. So there's lots of bands that are still kicking or, you know, they just
19:59came back together because, you know, we all hit this age that we're like, Hey, you know
20:03what? This was fun. Let's do it again for fun. As opposed to trying to become a rock star
20:08trying to make it or rely on it or anything like that. I mean, fortunately for me, I stayed in the
20:14music business and this is all I've ever done. But, uh, you know, I've had a lot of friends that
20:19just kind of had to bow out, you know, in their mid thirties and then are maybe coming back at it
20:24again in their early fifties, just to, just to do it for fun. Cause it is fun. Yeah. They had to get a
20:30real job as someone. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Slick toxic, man. Uh, how close were you with
20:36the Anvil guys or those guys were a little bit ahead of you probably, right? Uh, yeah,
20:40they were a little bit older, but, uh, Anvil, I was at a studio, um, for five years called phase one
20:46studios and they did a record in, uh, in, in my studio at that time. And, uh, it was, it was heavy
20:53duty entertainment for, for me because, uh, again, on many levels, but you know, growing up as a kid,
20:59being aware of Anvil and, and even being like 12 or 13 and going to like a local concert at, uh, at an
21:07arena and watching Anvil, Gato, uh, you know, bands like that, uh, it just seemed like they were just
21:14giant rock stars, you know? So really cool to later on run into them and know them. Helix,
21:21Lee Aaron was another one, you know, we did opening shows for them when we were like, you know, 14,
21:2615 years old. And, uh, they seemed like, uh, music icons and veterans at that point.
21:32Yeah. I think, uh, Sass Jordan's from up there too, correct?
21:34Sass Jordan as well. Yeah. I remember Sass. Yeah. Uh, uh, well, let me ask you about this. I don't
21:38want to get off on a tangent on Canadian bands, but I love talking about this, but, uh, uh, have you,
21:43have you intertwined or hung out with the Triumph or Rush guys?
21:46Well, yeah. I mean, you know, again, the studio owner, Gilmore, drummer in Triumph,
21:53uh, literally has a studio about 10 minutes away from where I'm sitting right now.
21:58Yeah. And what's that called? I think I called.
21:59Metalworks. Yes, Metalworks studio. So, you know what, every once in a while, like, you know,
22:04I'll end up over there working on a project or just, you know, I was there a couple of weeks ago.
22:09And, uh, so yeah, you know, we, you know, we'll run into each other every, every once in a while.
22:15And so, you know, hanging around for 30, 35 years, you're eventually going to run into somebody.
22:20And, uh, um, I just mastered a project called Envy of None. Yeah.
22:27Yeah. Andy Kern. And of course it's, you know, Alex Lifeson on guitar from Rush. And, uh, so yeah,
22:33some small little connections, uh, six degrees of separation.
22:37No, that's great. Canada. Right.
22:39Yeah. I only met Alex Lifeson once. I actually wrote about this. It got a huge response, but,
22:43uh, you know, what do you say to Alex Lifeson when you meet him? Well,
22:46I told him how much I enjoyed him in the trailer park boys.
22:50Yeah. Yeah. Another iconic, uh, you know, brand that, uh, that everybody loves.
22:56I've actually met and hung out those guys several times. Cause, uh, Darren McCarty is one of my
23:00buddies and of course they're big hockey guys. So they got to hang out at DMACC.
23:03Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It all makes sense.
23:08Well, I'll tell you what, Harry, we'll cut you loose. I know you got other things going on,
23:11but a harem, scare him. You got, uh, this, uh, is it a box set, a deluxe vinyl?
23:16Yeah. We're calling it deluxe anniversary. Okay.
23:19Edition. Yeah. Swings. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. By the way, the song, there was a time, right?
23:25Yeah. There was a time. Yeah. I was expecting it to be the guns and roses song, but it wasn't,
23:30but, uh, I'm just teasing. That song was, I didn't, I didn't know there was one. Uh,
23:35I'll have to listen to it on their Chinese democracy record. They have a song. There was a time,
23:40which is, okay. Which is initially about somebody apparently. Oh, okay. I'll have to check into the
23:48backstory on that one. Yeah. Hey, we'll look you up on the socials and stuff. And, uh, and thanks so
23:53much for your time. It's a great to talk with you. Love it. All right. Thanks again. All right. Talk soon.