Talkin' Rock with Megadeth's David Ellefson
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00:00Rock, metal, prog, and everything in between.
00:04If you're into rock, you've come to the right place.
00:07Welcome to this episode of Talkin' Rock with Meltdown.
00:11Don't forget to follow the audio-only Talkin' Rock podcast on all podcast platforms.
00:15And now, it's time for today's conversation.
00:18Here's Meltdown.
00:20I love the Yachtley Cruise shirt. I haven't seen that band yet. Have you seen them?
00:24Dude, they're frickin' awesome.
00:26I saw them. New Year's Eve, they played here in town.
00:30And obviously, very age-appropriate music.
00:34And I love them, man. They're like the Steel Panther of Yacht Rock, you know?
00:39They're, like, super cool. They look the part. They play great.
00:44And, yeah, it's funny, you know, because my son turned me on to Yacht Rock some years back, you know, of course.
00:51And, you know, I don't know about you and me, but growing up in the Midwest,
00:55you know, I would listen to AM radio stations on the farm,
00:59occasionally FM over in, like, Sioux Falls, South Dakota.
01:02And it was basically Yacht Rock interrupted by maybe a Kiss song.
01:06Right.
01:06Mix, sweets, you know, something, you know.
01:09And I go, I like the heavier stuff, but, you know, I'll listen to some Hall & Oates
01:13and some Christopher Cross until I can hear Shout It Out Loud again.
01:16There you go.
01:17Yeah, we'll talk about Kiss coming up here in a little bit.
01:19But first, you have, like, a million things going on.
01:21And by the way, last time I saw you, you were celebrating your birthday here in Detroit with Metallica.
01:26So, I mean, obviously that made a little bit of news.
01:28I saw it all over the place, but that was great.
01:31Man, who better friends to spend your birthday with than Metallica?
01:35I mean, you know, and Pantera and Five Finger Death Punch and, you know, the whole gang, Wolfgang and everybody.
01:41So, yeah, no, that was super fun.
01:44Well, it's funny because I was in town, really, in the area to film this movie with Bruno Fortier,
01:50who I play in The Lucid with.
01:51We did this new movie called Bunker Heights.
01:54And so I had to come in and film my thug scene for the movie.
01:58So it worked out perfectly that they were wrapping their year in Michigan.
02:03And, obviously, we got to hang out and, you know, take in a rock concert.
02:07Now, did you see Vinny from the band The Lucid when you were here?
02:10Vinny from Spongebob?
02:11I didn't.
02:12No, I didn't.
02:13I didn't.
02:14No, I did the show, and then I booked on down the road and finished all the filming and stuff, you know,
02:21down, you know, basically in the area there, but outside of Detroit.
02:25So, yeah, no, I didn't.
02:27You know, Vinny's always busy as well.
02:30You know, it's funny.
02:30That's one of the reasons people ask, when is The Lucid playing?
02:33And, you know, it's just hard with schedules.
02:36You know, Mike Heller plays in Raven, I guess, kind of formally maybe Fear Factory.
02:42I don't even know if that's a thing anymore.
02:44But so he's busy.
02:46You know, Vinny's always out with Sponge constantly.
02:49And, of course, he brought, you know, some insane clown posse.
02:53Well, it's The Lucid, you know.
02:55And that was all Vinny, man, because, you know, he's just that kind of fun rock and roll character
03:00to come up with fun ideas, you know?
03:02Yeah, no doubt.
03:03I was just thinking about that as you were talking.
03:05I don't know who's in more projects, you or Vinny, because you're in about 27,
03:08and he's in about 20 or so.
03:10You know, I always get crap from my manager from Kings of Thrash.
03:15You know, he's like, you guys, you've ruined rock and roll.
03:18You're in too many matches.
03:19I said, listen, dude, I rolled the big rock up the big hill for 20 years exclusively.
03:23I mean, there it is, right?
03:25And, you know, and then one day that came to an end in 2002.
03:32So, you know, the 2000s was sort of my, that was my decade to be entrepreneurial, to be resourceful.
03:42I remember I was talking to some people at Fender, and one of the ladies over there, she goes,
03:46you know, you're very resourceful.
03:48And I thought, you know, what a compliment, you know, to have that, you know?
03:52And again, growing up in the Midwest, by the way, I love your window.
03:56That's exactly what it looked like in the farm where I was growing up.
03:58You know, you learn to be resourceful, man.
04:01And, you know, rock and roll, being in bands has always been an entrepreneurial game, you know?
04:06And if you're fortunate that, you know, one of these things hits like that, you know, that's your, it's a diamond in the rough.
04:13It's a lottery win if there ever was one.
04:16But again, I've been in a gazillion bands of various successes.
04:21And, you know, not all of them get you gold and platinums.
04:24In fact, you know, it's funny.
04:25I just got, I just got these Metal Allegiance ones.
04:29And now they do streams, right?
04:31They do Spotify streams instead of, you know, like records sold and all that kind of stuff.
04:36But a plaque is a plaque and it'll look good next to all the rest of them, you know?
04:41That's right.
04:41So Metal Allegiance, you got the 10-year anniversary of that coming up at the House of Blues on January 25th.
04:45And it's going to be a plethora of guests.
04:47Is that what's going to happen?
04:48Pretty much.
04:49I mean, you know, that thing started on the Motorhead's motorboat cruise.
04:54Megadeth was supposed to be on that.
04:56And then Megadeth canceled it.
04:58And so the promoter was a friend of mine.
05:00And he worked with Shiprock and a bunch of stuff as well.
05:03And so, you know, he called me freaking out.
05:06Like, who's going to be his headliner, you know?
05:08And so I said, you know, dude, I got an idea on something.
05:12And I called Mark Menge, who's my partner, you know, in Metal Allegiance.
05:16And because we, you know, he ran artist relations for Harky.
05:19And so when I went back to Megadeth, it's funny.
05:22Tim Ripper Owens had just introduced me to Mark at a NAMM show in 2010.
05:27And then literally about two weeks later, I'm back in Megadeth, you know?
05:32And so I called Mark and go, dude, I need some Harky gear for, you know, we're playing Rust in Peace.
05:37I need it to look and sound authentic, you know, the Jackson bass, Harky amp and stuff.
05:42So that was where me and Menge connected.
05:44And then when we started doing the big four shows, Mark put together something that he called Metal Masters,
05:50which was kind of a clinic that then turned into a performance, right?
05:54And it was initially, it was me, Frank Bellow on bass, Frank Sing and Charlie Benante on guitar and Mike Portnoy on drums.
06:03And we did one at a Sam Ash music store over in Cerritos right before the Indio big four that we did in April 2011.
06:12And then that got some legs and it turned into a thing, you know?
06:15Then it turned in, you know, Phil Anselmo and Kerry King and Geezer Butler and Dave Lombardo, you know,
06:21it was kind of everybody. It was, it was a big thing.
06:23And as Menge transitioned out of his artist relations gig at Harky and Sampson that summer of 2014,
06:31you know, we were chatting and, and I just said, man, let's, let's keep this going.
06:36This is too fun. You know, we got all the famous guys here, you know?
06:40So he, he trademarked and rebranded it as Metal Allegiance.
06:44And, and then, and then the Megadeth, you know, cancellation happened on Motorboat and I called Mark and go,
06:50guess what, buddy? We're up. This is it, you know?
06:52Cause we had planned on launching it at NAMM in 2015 and, and like a lot of things in life,
06:56suddenly the call comes and it's like, dude, this is you.
07:00You're, are you, are you in or not? You know?
07:02And, and I remember Billy Sheehan told me that when I was writing my first book,
07:06he said, he goes, you'll have to make some of the most critical decisions under the worst of
07:12circumstances or, you know, the, the least convenience kind of duress. And this was, you know,
07:16this wasn't duress, but it was like, Hey Mark, remember that thing we were talking about last
07:20week, Metal Legions? Well, guess what? We're going to be on the motorboat. Like, let's go,
07:24you know? And, and so that, you know, that's just, that's how life happens. That's how,
07:29that's how all this shit happened, you know, is, is, you know, just be ready to go,
07:33you know, so that, that started it in 2014 on the, on the motorboat cruise. And we went over
07:39to Portnoy's house a month later, made our first record and made a second record. And, you know,
07:45here we are 10 years later to have, you know, playing a, playing a show with, you know, it's
07:50the core four, it's me, Mengi, Portnoy and Skolnick. We're the kind of the four captains of the ship.
07:55And then, and then, you know, a bunch of our friends, Phil Demmel, Andreas Kisser, Troy from Mastodon,
08:02John Bush from Armored Saints, Chuck Billy, of course, from Testament. So it's, it's a,
08:08Chris Poland is even joining us. And so it'll be his first Metal Allegiant show. So, you know,
08:15we, we change it up. No two shows are the same. Yeah. And that's at the house of blues coming up
08:19on January 25th. Plus this year is the Nick Menza documentary dropping this year.
08:24You know, we set it to be finished, uh, by the end of, you know, December 31st. And of course,
08:33you know, it isn't as these things go, you know, there's a lot of, there's more people involved
08:38in this than me. I mean, look, they called me and said, Hey, would you want to narrate it? I'm sure.
08:41Well, next thing you know, I'm, you know, funding it a little bit. And I go with every freaking thing
08:47I get involved with, but you know, I do it like, you know, I have a, I have a motto this year,
08:51you know, be led by your passions rather than be driven by your ambitions, you know? And when
08:56you're led by your passions, you're always going down. I'd like to think the right path is you're,
09:02you're, you're excited about it, you know? And of course, look, Nick's my friend, you know,
09:05he was, uh, he was a dear friend to me as well as, you know, the, the iconic drummer of Megadeth
09:11and all the other things that the fans know him as he was a dear friend and his family have been
09:16very gracious to me as well. So, you know, for me to participate in that is, is great. So that
09:22we're, we're going to do the premiere, um, at, at my coffee booth, the Ellison coffee booth at NAM
09:28next week. So, um, we're, and that's for anybody who's attending NAM and any of the media that's
09:33there. So we'll have a, have a, uh, well, you know, uh, a screening of the premiere, which, you know,
09:39it's not that long, but it's, it's a short little clip, but it kind of summarizes the movie.
09:44It sort of takes you, uh, through kind of the journey of what the movie is going to be. And
09:48my, my hope is that we would probably premiere the film sometime this year. And, you know,
09:55I learned this after doing this with Drew with dwellers and stuff, you know, you, you, you go
09:59around, you do the, um, you know, all these, you know, these, these, um, festivals, you know,
10:06these film festivals and stuff, you know? So, um, and then, you know, you shop for distribution and I
10:10mean, ultimately today, everything ends up on some digital platform. You know, if, if you're,
10:15if you're lucky, you get on Netflix and HBO and that kind of stuff. If you're, you know,
10:20a smaller independent stuff like this will probably end up on like, um, is it to be and some of these
10:26kinds of digital platforms. So, you know, that those digital things in TV, that's kind of caught
10:31up to where the music business started with Napster, you know, Napster and iTunes. So, you know,
10:36it's like all music ends up digitally, all films now eventually end up digitally as well.
10:41You probably talked about this, but since you brought it up, I never, I don't think I've ever
10:44asked you about this. Was Lars right? He was a hundred percent right. And in fact,
10:49we were told by our manager, shut up, don't say anything about it. It's too controversial.
10:53Stay out of it. But I totally, I mean, on the sidelines, I'm going to me, he's totally right.
10:57You know, and like he said, he goes, look, you know, we have the money to fight this.
11:01Unfortunately, you know, it was an unwinnable thing and, and, you know, it was just such bad,
11:07you know, press, unfortunately, even though, look, he's right. You can't go to the grocery
11:11store and just decide to take a loaf of bread and go, you know, it's digital bread. It should
11:16be free. You know what I mean? Or if you're sitting at home on Amazon or whatever, you're
11:21Uber Eats, it's like, yeah, you got to pay for it when it shows up at the door, you know?
11:25So, you know, there's no free lunches, you know, uh, brooch, no point.
11:30Nowadays, nowadays you can walk into stores and apparently steal stuff in some places.
11:34So yeah, there are just certain places you can. Um, but you know, no, he, he's right. It's
11:40like, look, you know, music costs people time, money. It's, it's a, it's an endeavor. It's,
11:48I mean, look, if you just want to play for free and for fun and go, go in your living room
11:51and play, but when you're out, you know, selling a product, which a song is when it's
11:56professionally marketed, um, then yeah, look, there's, there's, there's cost to these things.
12:02And for people to just take it is, you know, whatever, but I, and look, finally, a lot of
12:06it, I think was just sort of educating people about how, you know, you know, the internet
12:11can't just run amok with things as it tends to do with certain things. Um, you know, for
12:16me, Steve Jobs, you know, he's my hero anyway. I'm an Apple guy. I always have been.
12:20And, and, you know, in a way he kind of saved the day with that. And by, you know, creating
12:25the iTunes store, even if it was just so he could sell more iPods, you know, he created
12:30his own little music grocery store, you know, uh, to, to kind of, you know, create the ecosphere,
12:37I guess, you know, but, um, so, you know, look, Lars was right. Steve Jobs got the job done
12:42and we all live happily ever after.
12:44Now, speaking of, uh, of music and records, I, uh, when I was found out, I was talking to you,
12:48of course, I, I Googled your name just to see like what I could talk to you about. I mean,
12:51we could talk about a million things that people didn't care about, but I saw the, uh, I saw the
12:56five albums, uh, that, that you picked as, as your five. And it's kind of funny. Cause you got these,
13:01I got four albums from like the end of the seventies, early eighties, destroyer, Van Halen,
13:05unleashing the East, uh, moving pictures. And then you got ghost. So I thought that was kind of a,
13:10I thought that was kind of a weird dichotomy, but I mean, of course, you know, we're,
13:13we're about the same age. So that early, that late seventies, early eighties kind of, you know,
13:17transformed a lot of music that we liked. You know, Jeff Young said it best. I was talking
13:22about ghost one day and he goes, dude, they sound like bloister cult. I went, man, that's it. If
13:27you're talking to someone our age, you know, what does this new band go sound like? They've got this,
13:32this kind of bloister cult, you know, this, this of, of vocal sound. That's not this really heavy,
13:38rough death metal screamo kind of thing. Uh, you know, as bloister cult had a very kind of
13:45calming, soothing sound to the singing of, of bloister cult, as well as these awesome harmonies.
13:51And, you know, there's, um, you know, like, uh, Meliora, you know, he is, for instance,
13:56has these just beautiful guitar lines in it, you know, even the very final guitar line of it is,
14:01it just reminds me of this very majestic, almost like Neil Schoen of journey in the seventies, um,
14:07sticks, you know, dual guitar kind of stuff. So to me, there's a lot of this kind of seventies
14:13classic rock thing in there, of course, bringing the keyboard thing in, you know, I was not a big
14:17fan of keyboards growing up in, in music. Cause I always just want, you know, I liked Unleashed
14:22in the East, right. Heavy, just brutal guitars. And I've come to appreciate it a lot more, you know,
14:28when I, I played in jazz band, I played in church, I played in other, you know, uh, rock,
14:33uh, rock and roll fantasy camps, you know, where there's keyboards and things. And, you know,
14:37and it's interesting when you're in the room of the keyboard player, Al Petrelli taught me this
14:40actually, because one day I, I, I got a call to play in church and Al was in town. We were writing
14:45the world needs a hero. And I said, Al, and, and Al's telling him, Hey, nothing, nothing. You want
14:50to come play in church, you know? And then, so he did, you know, he showed up with his tattoos and
14:54pack of cigarettes and, you know, but, but he, you know, Al's an educated, he's a Berkeley guy.
14:58He went to Berkeley the same year with the dream theater guys. And, um, and they all, I guess,
15:04did a year at Berkeley left and then, you know, started their bands and got on being professionals.
15:08But, um, you know, Al taught me something. He says, he goes, you know, he didn't even have a
15:12chord chart. He goes, yeah, I'm just watching the keyboard players left hand over there, you know,
15:15kind of read the chords. And I, and so I learned a lot from him with that because, you know, whereas a
15:21guitar, you're looking at, you know, these 21, 22 or 24 frets, you know, which is, you know,
15:27one, you know, fret one to 12 is, you know, is the same, you know, from here to 12 there. That's,
15:35that's, you know, one set of notes. And then it's just the same set of notes from 12 on up as many
15:40frets as you have. Whereas on a keyboard, you know, you're looking at, at just octaves after octaves
15:47after octaves. Right. And so visually, I think it's a little bit different. And, um, you know,
15:52so for me, when I hear the ghost stuff, it's, you know, it's kind of Gary Weaver or, uh, you know,
16:00dream Weaver, Gary, right. Kind of stuff. It's, it's, it's maybe at times a little deep purple,
16:06maybe a little angel. Uh, but then it's also got this kind of, um, seventies and, you know,
16:1270, like the cars, like 70, you know, the cars had this really great keyboard sound, you know,
16:17it was very really out there. Right. And it's sat, it didn't blend in with the, with the guitars,
16:24you know? So I, I guess I've over the years and maybe ghost kind of opened my eyes to it a bit,
16:28be my ears to it because I hear it now in a way that I think is very clever and cool
16:34and adds something. And, and look, they made the keytar payments again, you know, you know,
16:41again, Greg, Greg Jafria from angel, uh, Gary, right. You know, they all had the keytar,
16:46which is a keyboard that looks like a guitar. You can come out and play it with a, you know,
16:50strapped on, you know, or on your, or on your neck. The guy from revenge of the nerds.
16:56Is that what it is? I guess. I think, I think he had one of those two.
16:59But, uh, yeah, that's funny. You mentioned the song he is because that video was shot here in
17:04Detroit and, and the girl I work with Jade is actually one of the girls in the video.
17:09No kidding. Wow. So you have a personal connection, but I, but that's probably one of my favorite songs
17:15of theirs and they're great in concert. I saw those guys back in August and it was great because it
17:20was like a, a dreary, cool, rainy night here in Detroit. And it's like, that's the perfect way
17:24to see ghost. Yeah. Right. Yeah. It's got, this is like this, the, the church thing is cool. You
17:29know, the whole, the whole thing is, you know, and it's interesting because the Europeans have a very
17:33different view of religion and church than we do here in America. You know, here we have this sort
17:37of religious freedom, church and state, literally, you know, the government can't be part of a
17:42church, et cetera, you know? Um, and you know, over there, it's very different, obviously the
17:48religious persecutions and stuff. So they have a very not so favorable view of it, you know? So
17:53it's like, when you see like Nurgle with behemoth and you see, you know, the ghost stuff, there's this,
17:58this, you know, um, you know, kind of shot in the face to that kind of that thing. And it, it, it's,
18:05it's a shtick, but it's, it's cool. You know, I, I like it. I think it's, I think, I love it too.
18:10I saw ghost three times in the last tour and I thought it was just every time got better and
18:15better. I just thought it was fantastic. Yeah. Those guys are right on the money as well. What
18:18a, what a great band to see live. Yeah. Super good. You know, and it's fun. There's like nine
18:23guys on the stage. It's like earth, wind and fire back in the day. You know what I mean? It's like,
18:27it's like this huge production and, uh, you know, and it's, it's, you know, it's, it's, I've been going
18:33to see a lot of shows when I just came home from Europe, we were doing the diet tour all summer and,
18:37and, um, it's just kind of chilling here in Arizona and just, you know, resting up and
18:42everything. And, and so I went out to see a bunch of shows. I mean, I would see everything from like
18:45Eric Church to ghosts, you know, to Metallica, you know, everything, you know, Rob Zombie,
18:51Alice Cooper, all this stuff. And, you know, it's just fun sometimes to just go and be a,
18:55be a fan in the audience and, and enjoy watching a show, you know, just like I used to go see
19:00Kiss and Iron Maiden and everybody when I was growing up in Minnesota, just,
19:03you know, and, and, you know, Kiss is one of those bands, you know, I, like I've said before,
19:08I'll always be a student of Kiss, you know, even if they're not touring anymore, I'll still be a
19:12student of them. And, you know, I, it's, I go to concerts to be a fan. So I remember why I give
19:17concerts myself and to, and to really, and to appreciate my own fans, how they look at us.
19:23And, you know, when you're on that stage, it's a, it's a special sacred place to be. So when you're
19:28there, you know, be, be special, you know, give, give them their money's worth.
19:32Yeah. I had a pretty cool, uh, Kiss moment this year. They, they played here in October at the
19:37arena. And what happened was they do this Kiss VIP thing that I think you were part of where they
19:43play on the stage for the fans and the whole thing. I did do that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the stage here in
19:48Detroit wasn't ready. And so they actually put a, they put a makeshift stage on the concourse right
19:53by where I was broadcasting. Whoa, wow. It was really cool. So they, they played, I think, uh,
19:58five songs, you know, um, just sitting on bar stools and it was really cool.
20:04Yeah. I, uh, my friend of mine, Scott Revenald, who owns Asylum Records, he, he bought the Paul
20:08Stanley stage smash guitar package. So he texted me, he goes, dude, you want to go see Kiss?
20:13And I'd seen him over, over in Europe this summer. And I was like, yeah, you know, why not? It,
20:17it probably, probably the last time I'll see him play live, you know, or at least on that level,
20:21you know? And, um, and I say that cause who knows if it's avatars or what they're going to do after
20:26this, but, um, you know, so it, it was great. And he said, dude, come on down to the pit. And I mean,
20:31you're standing, leaning against the stage. I mean, he literally reached over and touched
20:34Jean's boot over. I was texting my friend, Greg Hanna, but over in Minnesota going, dude, check this
20:39out. You know, imagine us at 13 when my mom took us to see Kiss on rock and roll over. And this was all,
20:45you know, this was all like magic and showbiz. And, you know, now, you know, now I know how they
20:51do it. You know, I, I know how that's done, but still, again, it was just great to be there at the
20:57show. And the soundcheck thing was, was a great idea because obviously with Kiss, the shows with
21:02makeup, the soundcheck party was not, and then they would play different songs. They would play songs
21:06and they're as best I can tell. It's not a click track. It's like them really playing. And, and,
21:11you know, so, um, you know, there's all this, this stuff with that and, and vocally it was on point.
21:18I mean, it was great, you know, so, um, you know, it was great to just see Kiss as a, as a stripped
21:23down, really awesome four-piece rock and roll band, just like all the rest of us are, you know?
21:28That's right. That's right. At the, at the end of the day, for sure. Well, I'll tell you what,
21:31David, David, thanks so much for joining me. Uh, we've got the Metal Legions coming up on January 25th
21:36at the House of Blues. Uh, and of course, I'm sure we'll bump into you somewhere here in 2024.
21:40Of course, many, many more things happening. So, uh, good to chat again. Thanks, Meltdown.
21:45All right, dude. Thanks for, thanks for everything, man. Yep. See you, man. Bye.