Marc Maron, comedian and host of the podcast WTF, discusses his role in The Joker.
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00:00But the bottom line is, you get a call from your agent,
00:02and they're like, you want to do a scene with Joaquin and De Niro?
00:04I'm like, yeah, it's in a comic movie.
00:07I'm like, no, I didn't.
00:09Yes, of course I'm going to do that.
00:13You know I'm from movies and streaming shows,
00:16and of course one of the best podcasts in the world.
00:20And we're happy he's back in town.
00:21Ladies and gentlemen, Mark Maron is here.
00:25Hey, Mark.
00:26Am I on? Is it on?
00:27It is on.
00:28And comedy. They know me from comedy.
00:30They do.
00:30That's why you're at the Miriam tonight.
00:33We were checking our records,
00:35and I think the last time you came by for a visit was in our studio in 2012.
00:39I know. Look at us all turning old.
00:41Look at a bunch of old men now.
00:42That's right. You've got to shave your head.
00:43I do? Is it time?
00:45Well, what happens is it at least removes that visual cue, you know?
00:49Then you're just the age-less bald man.
00:52How old is that Buddha?
00:54Yeah, exactly.
00:56You look good, Buddha.
00:58I don't know when it happened to me, though.
01:00Like, I'm just starting to notice it now.
01:02For years, I was like...
01:03You look good, though.
01:03No, you look good.
01:04I'm going to say, I'm going to put you in the age-defying category,
01:06and I think because you have an iconic mustache.
01:10Oh, is that what's happening?
01:11I think that's it, yeah.
01:12I finally have an iconic mustache.
01:14Yes, I think you...
01:15Because you can be drawn with, like, your facial hair can...
01:19You're one of the rare class of people, celebrities, who can be defined by their facial hair.
01:23Just in a sketch.
01:24I used to do the sort of a soul patch Zappa thing.
01:28You got a full beard going, but I think I just noticed it a couple weeks ago.
01:33I think I slept one, maybe last, might have been last Wednesday, I woke up old.
01:37Like, I feel like everybody hits that moment where you look at yourself in the mirror, and you're like, it happened.
01:43I don't know when it happened.
01:45Do you know what it is?
01:46It's like sometimes, why does that jiggle now?
01:49Yeah, it is.
01:51Are you jumping up and down in front of the mirror?
01:53Look at me.
01:54Yes.
01:54It's all going.
01:56It's all jiggling.
01:57Something hurts that didn't hurt before.
01:59That's happening.
02:00The time to recover takes longer.
02:02Yeah, if you ever do recover, it's the living with the hurting.
02:06You know what I mean?
02:06Like, I guess my toes are like that now.
02:09Yeah, but I feel all right.
02:11I think so.
02:12You're in good shape.
02:12You've remained in good shape for quite a while.
02:14It takes work, man.
02:15You know, I was watching, Mark, a documentary just over last weekend on Sam Kennison, and you, you know, go back to that.
02:22I think of all the ways, knowing you were going to be in, the bizarre, you know, fluidity of life, and, you know, you're in that prominently.
02:34I was?
02:34Yeah, you're mentioned many times, yeah, in the beginning.
02:36So the—
02:37What was this?
02:37Where is this on?
02:38Yeah, it's a crime or something.
02:41Yeah.
02:41But long story short, you know, if you look at your career, the way it's firing now, it's got to be wild to be where you were back then, to gone through all you've gone through.
02:50Yeah.
02:50You know, the book is out, you know, Waiting for the Punch, the shows, the podcast, interviewing the president, all of this stuff.
02:59Do you have time to take a breath and absorb it all, or do you just keep going, you know?
03:04I'm trying.
03:05Yeah.
03:05You know, I'm trying—I'm experimenting with experiencing peace of mind and happiness because I'm told it's beneficial to us, and that's what we're working towards.
03:15Yeah.
03:16It does get to a point where, you know, because things turned around for me, not later in life, I'm not like, you know, 70, but I mean, my success came in my 40s.
03:25Yeah.
03:25And it does make a difference.
03:26I know people are like—people are like—they say, like, does success really make a difference?
03:32Yes.
03:32Yeah.
03:33It does make a difference in terms of—because you spend so much time committed to something.
03:37Like, with comedy, I mean, that's all I wanted to do, and that's all that I really am.
03:41And when you do that, after a certain point, there's no plan B.
03:45You know, you get 20 years into something, and all of a sudden you're like, well, I could always—oh, man.
03:50Yeah.
03:50You're exactly right.
03:51There's nothing there.
03:53The last job I had was a really legit job.
03:56I was a grill cook, you know, in college, I think, before I committed to comedy or worked at a coffee shop somewhere.
04:03So it's not lost on me that it's sort of amazing that I've pulled it out in the second half here.
04:10But I am trying to appreciate it.
04:11Yeah, I'm trying to do nice things.
04:13I'll go ahead and fly first class if that's okay.
04:15Yes, treat yourself, because you don't want to be that guy who shuns all—
04:21No, I don't, but I also have that brain of a comic where it's sort of like, I don't know when this money's going to go away.
04:26I don't know when the work's going to dry up.
04:28I don't know if I'm going to get that club date.
04:30Right.
04:30And I still have that survival kind of mindset.
04:33Do you know what was very, very telling was—and I always reference it because I think it's probably as true a thing as you'll ever see—
04:39is Joan Rivers in that documentary right at the end there.
04:42where she had her book, her schedule, and it was open space, even at her career, with the way everything was going.
04:50I've got to fill that in.
04:52It's a day open.
04:53I've got to—you know, right?
04:54So it never leaves you, does it?
04:56It doesn't, no.
04:57But I'm always pretty busy.
04:58I'm, like, doing the comedy, and then I do the TV show now, The Glow Show.
05:03We've got one more season of that.
05:04It's a great show.
05:05Yeah, it's a fun show.
05:06And then, you know, the podcast.
05:08And Joker!
05:09I mean, all the stuff.
05:10I mean, that's—
05:12I've got a hot, you know, like a tight 40 seconds from Joker.
05:16Hey, you've got more than Brian Callen.
05:18Callen's like, is that him?
05:20Yeah.
05:21You've got more than Gary Goleman.
05:23No, Gary Goleman was kind of featured, but he's doing his act.
05:26Yeah, right.
05:26I love him, by the way.
05:27Well, it was funny because I did a—there's this whole thing where, you know, I did a—it was a longer scene with me and De Niro.
05:34Like, it wasn't the whole movie, but we did a walk-and-talk thing heading up to the dressing room where we enter, and that's where it's—that's where it's—that's the scene in The Joker.
05:43But there's a whole other thing where I'm like, how you doing?
05:45What's going on?
05:46Let's not do this.
05:47Did he exercise that?
05:48Well, yeah, because I asked a guy, Todd Phillips, I said, before I saw the movie, I said, am I in it?
05:54Did I make the cut?
05:54He goes, well, we cut the walk-and-talk.
05:56And I was like, all right.
05:57He goes, we had to because he said there's not a scene in that movie that doesn't involve the Joker.
06:02Yeah.
06:03So it's completely from his point of view, or he's always in every frame.
06:06So anything that didn't involve him, that he wasn't in, they took out.
06:10And it made sense to me.
06:11Okay.
06:11And he said that one—like, that scene, that walk-and-talk, had nothing to do with Joker, so they really—
06:16I guess it makes sense.
06:17Yeah, it made sense.
06:18You had a funny observation on Colbert you were talking about.
06:21Well, yeah, because, like, I mean, I get this opportunity.
06:25It's De Niro.
06:26It's freaking De Niro.
06:27Well, people, like, also, I'm fairly critical of Marvel movies.
06:30And I get, you know, I've gotten a lot of pushback from the—
06:32Well, as you can see, we're a fan.
06:34Yeah, but I get a lot of pushback from the grown male nerd community has, you know, get very mad at me.
06:42But when they found out I did Joker, they were like, no, you're a hypocrite.
06:44And they were very excited that somebody think they won something.
06:48Yeah.
06:48But we convert—we got him.
06:50We converted him.
06:51No, they were like, you know, this guy's opinion means nothing.
06:54Right, right, right.
06:55Yeah, he's a sellout.
06:56But the bottom line is you get a call from your agent.
06:59They're like, you want to do a scene with Joaquin and De Niro?
07:01I'm like, yeah, it's in a comic movie.
07:04I'm like, no, I didn't.
07:05Yes, of course.
07:07What am I going to do?
07:08Of course I'm going to do that.
07:09Right, right.
07:09So, all right, can I ask you what your stance is on these comic movies?
07:13Because are you up there with, like, how Bill Maher feels about them?
07:18Yeah, I don't know.
07:19Like, Bill has a tone.
07:21Yeah.
07:22That's delicate.
07:23That's delicate.
07:24And I don't know if I'm within that tone.
07:27Okay.
07:27I mean, I think you could put me in the mildly condescending, you know, I have a problem with
07:33it culturally because I do believe that there's a fanatical sort of commitment to them.
07:38I do believe that because of their popularity, they do push out other entertainment options.
07:43And I do believe that, you know, I don't know that as a grownup, I've earned this age that
07:48I'm at.
07:48I don't want to feel sort of bullied to go see children's movies.
07:52Okay.
07:53So, I understand that.
07:55I understand that.
07:55Because people who like those movies, even if they're grownups, they're sort of like,
08:00come on.
08:01They're almost like the missionaries.
08:04There's just like a bunch of Disney stooges, you know, who are trying to tell you it's like,
08:10you know, this is their life.
08:11Right.
08:12I've been a fan throughout all my life.
08:14And so it attaches to pivotal moments of my childhood.
08:17Sure.
08:18So, but I understand it's the same way vegans try to push, you know, the whole thing.
08:24And I think one is more healthy.
08:27Like, I don't think you're getting any health benefits from the Avengers movies.
08:32Well, Batman is like the DC Marvel's different.
08:34And I've used that joke.
08:35Like when people are like, yeah, you're doing a kind of, it's a DC movies.
08:39It's a little darker, a little more grown up.
08:40A little more grown up, yeah.
08:42I do understand it because I love the movies.
08:44I'm not a comic book guy.
08:45I didn't read the comic books growing up.
08:47So I don't have this like long vested interest in like, oh my God, it's finally happening.
08:52I think it's a, it's a belief system.
08:54Right, right.
08:55I mean, these guys have been reading.
08:56Go ahead.
08:56No, no.
08:57My wife doesn't watch any of them.
08:59And I tried to have this.
09:00I think that's something a lot of men say.
09:01But I tried to have this argument with her.
09:03I'm like, no, it's really, really great cinema.
09:05But now like hearing you talk, I'm like, okay, you know who I listen.
09:09You're allowed to not be into them.
09:11And I need to just kind of like drop it right then and there.
09:14Like, okay.
09:14Wow.
09:14Look, I think this feels like some sort of peace talk.
09:17We've made a breakthrough.
09:18Yeah.
09:18I mean, you're just going to drop it right there.
09:20That's interesting.
09:21You don't want to, you sure you don't want to get online with an army of your peers?
09:24Just, nah, it's too much work, man.
09:26That's an argument nobody's ever going to win.
09:28So that's what gets me is why have that argument?
09:30Maybe just for the catharsis of having the argument itself?
09:33No, I tell you why.
09:34And my producer, Brendan, has explained this to me is because, you know, this is a group
09:39of people that were sort of marginalized in a way.
09:43The nerds were always sort of the brunt of the joke.
09:45Yeah.
09:46And now they own culture.
09:47They do.
09:48And they're not going to let it go.
09:50So, so anybody that's going to start pushing at it, they're like, no, and it's always shrill
09:57and awkward and they're having feelings and you look at like Scorsese just caught.
10:03I think that was a reasonable.
10:04Yeah.
10:05And he's just, he's just saying, and listen, if Martin, you, you certainly have to entertain
10:08Martin Scorsese's view on things at its basic core.
10:12It's fun.
10:13That's what it is.
10:13It's a diversion.
10:14It's, it's, it's a hearkening back nostalgically to for me for childhood.
10:18Right.
10:18But it's, it's not, it's not a, I don't want to leave childhood, but I, I, I know what
10:22you're saying.
10:23I get bored.
10:23I am bored.
10:25Do you know what I mean?
10:26The stories are simple and I get it.
10:27Like, I know they're like, you ought to see, uh, the one, uh, one with Hugh Jackman and
10:31right.
10:31What's that one?
10:32If you want to start, cause I'm going to try to watch some just for, watch Logan.
10:39I've seen Iron Man.
10:40I saw that and I, and I saw, I think that maybe Iron Man, I don't know.
10:45It's okay.
10:46You don't.
10:47It's really okay.
10:47Again, it's like, it's funny because we, you know, we deal with obviously that the station
10:52plays music and a song will come up and the, it's the ultimate subjective thing.
10:56How do you respond to music?
10:58But people speak in concrete.
11:01This is great.
11:02No, it's the same with comedy.
11:03It's the same with everything.
11:05There's these things are subjective.
11:06You don't have to like them.
11:08Right.
11:08But I mean, my problem is with those movies generally, I really do get bored.
11:12I mean, if you're not thrilled by dudes flying around and throwing buildings and rocks and
11:16cars and things, you know, I don't know.
11:19It just, it was never my thing.
11:20And I read some comics, but even the comics I read when I was a kid were not those.
11:25I read like Swamp Thing and then I went, I went into the game and stuff.
11:29I, Hellblazer and Sandman.
11:31I, I liked good stuff.
11:32I liked a lot of the underground world of comics.
11:35I liked Daniel Klaus.
11:36I liked that guy.
11:37What's his name?
11:38Burns.
11:38Who does the eight whole, the eight ball comics.
11:40So what do you like?
11:40Do you like horror movies and stuff?
11:42Nope.
11:42Or you're not into that stuff?
11:44No, I have no patience.
11:45No patience.
11:46I just killed the guy.
11:48I don't know what, that feeling of suspense is not one of my favorite entertainment feelings.
11:54What, what in the pop culture realm, what's your, what's your go-to genre?
11:58What, what do you most find yourself being drawn to when you go to a movie?
12:02If you have.
12:03That's a good question.
12:04I don't know.
12:05I just, I've been watching Succession.
12:07Okay.
12:08I just started watching that.
12:09I love it.
12:09Everyone agrees about it.
12:10Yeah.
12:10Well, the way they talk to each other is amazing.
12:12Yeah.
12:12Because it's not real, but it's like, there's such a, the emotional weirdness of the whole
12:16thing is great.
12:17I just re-watched the entire Breaking Bad.
12:20Me too.
12:21You did?
12:21Yeah.
12:21Well, Preston and I did, what, a year or so ago, and now I've watched the last few episodes
12:26again because of the Netflix movie that's coming out with Jesse.
12:29I went to the premiere.
12:30Oh, how was it?
12:31How was it?
12:31It's, can we ask?
12:33Whose phone is going?
12:33It's yours, I think.
12:35Is it mine?
12:35Yeah.
12:35Oh, yeah.
12:36Oh, my God.
12:36I'm sorry.
12:38Dude, that happened at the end of Hamilton on Tuesday night.
12:41Hey, it's time to wake up.
12:42Yeah.
12:43It's time to wake up.
12:44Is it your arm?
12:45It's 7.30.
12:46Oh, my God.
12:47It's one of those.
12:48Oh, yeah, I almost didn't wake up because I thought I said it, and I didn't say it, but
12:52I woke up anyways.
12:52Yeah.
12:53The movie's good.
12:54It's good.
12:54It's almost like, I think he made it just because he's like, these guys were so great.
12:59Let's just make one more movie.
13:00Okay.
13:00I can see that.
13:01One more thing with this.
13:02I'm fine with that.
13:03But the premiere was great.
13:05I don't usually go to a lot of those, but because I'm on a Netflix show and I've done
13:07specials, and I've been on a few of their shows.
13:10They invite me, and I was like, I'm going to go to this one.
13:12Yeah.
13:12So I wore this shirt, the one you kind of-
13:15I love it.
13:15He's wearing a denim shirt, and I really like it.
13:17Oh, well, thank you.
13:18I know it's stiff.
13:19I know it's new because I knew the way you said it.
13:22It's like, you're like, wow, where'd you get that shirt?
13:23It was a compliment, but they were sort of like, well, no, it's a little, maybe you might
13:27want to break that in.
13:29Is it itch?
13:29Where'd you get that brand new denim shirt?
13:31It had an edge to it.
13:32Yeah, yeah.
13:33You just got that, didn't you?
13:36It wasn't a full-on compliment.
13:38I'm like, that's a denim shirt you got.
13:41That thing is really denim, isn't it?
13:43In the world of denim, that's passive-aggressive.
13:48We got to work on them.
13:49We got to work on them.
13:50That's hilarious.
13:51Oh, but the movie-
13:52Yeah.
13:53So I'm still like crazy because I still get kind of starstruck, and it's just kind of-
13:59Because I walk the carpet.
14:00I don't have to, but I'm not in the movie, but then you get that picture.
14:04It's like, also at the premiere, I was there, you know?
14:06But I'm sure Netflix encourages you if you can because you're a Netflix-
14:09Yeah, and I wore this denim shirt.
14:11That was the first-
14:11There it is.
14:12There's the picture you got.
14:14That's the denim shirt on its first appearance publicly.
14:17Same pants, too.
14:19Same pants.
14:19It is the same pants.
14:20Uh-huh.
14:20I got four things, dude.
14:22I don't-
14:23I got two pairs of pants I wear at any one time and three shirts.
14:28You're stylish.
14:29I got the Austin magazine where they say he really loves his, and it's like five pictures
14:33of you in the denim shirt.
14:34Yeah, uh-huh.
14:35And that's it.
14:36Yeah.
14:37Well, I'm breaking it in.
14:38So, but the-
14:39But I get starstruck, and also there's a weird mixture of like, do people know who I am,
14:43and can I approach them?
14:45There's some of them I do.
14:46Like, I saw Ed Begley there.
14:47Ed Begley gave me a big hug.
14:49And that's not nothing.
14:49Ed Begley's great.
14:50That's cool.
14:50That's not nothing, huh?
14:51Yeah, yeah.
14:51And then I saw Jonathan Banks, who plays Mike.
14:54Yeah, yeah.
14:55And I'm not sure if he does know me, but I walk up to him, because I grew up in Albuquerque,
14:59and they shot the whole thing in Albuquerque.
15:00Yeah, yeah, yeah.
15:01And my buddy from second grade lives in an apartment building that Mike just got a place
15:06in, because they shoot out there all the time with Saul and everything else, and they've
15:08become friends.
15:09So I walk up to Mike, I'm like, my buddy Dave's your buddy, and he's like, oh, yeah?
15:13And I'm like, and then I realize, he doesn't have no idea who I am.
15:17Like, I just, like, I don't think he does.
15:19I don't think he gets starstruck.
15:21Oh, my God.
15:21Jonathan Banks.
15:22He does not impress me as the type that's, he's pretty nonplussed.
15:26But yeah, definitely, but the thing that got me, like, Cranston was nice to me, because
15:29he's been on the show, and I saw Jesse Plemons, who I've not talked to, but he's, like, he
15:33was, you know, he knew who I was, and we talked.
15:35I listen to him, I'm like, some of them know me.
15:38Some of the celebrities know me.
15:41But we get the same way.
15:45Hey, we know David Faustino.
15:47He came here.
15:48Was he here?
15:48He was here.
15:49Wow.
15:50Kathy doesn't remember.
15:51I don't remember.
15:52Hey, Obama would know you.
15:53If you walked into a room and he was there, he would recognize you.
15:56Yeah, I think he's, I think he's, he might remember.
15:58Yeah.
15:59That was pretty special.
16:00Yeah, it was.
16:01The president came over.
16:02But one second, I got shown up.
16:03I also want to find out.
16:04Yes, please.
16:05So I'm at the premiere, and I hear from behind me over the, and people are sort of talking
16:09before the movie started, and I hear, I hear Hank's voice.
16:12You know, the, you have Hank from the cop in Breaking Bad, and I don't, I didn't even
16:16know the actor's name, but I'm like, there's Hank!
16:18I want to talk to Hank!
16:20Like, when I interviewed Cranston, I swear to God, when I did that, I was so immersed
16:23in the show, it was years ago, that I could not separate him from, from Walter White.
16:28Yeah.
16:29And like, I would kind of, throughout the entire interview with him, I'm like, I think I need
16:33to talk to Walter.
16:34So there, there's certain characters that really impress, like Hank's such a great, that guy's
16:38great.
16:38What's his name?
16:39Dean something or other.
16:40Norris.
16:41Yep.
16:41Yeah.
16:42Great.
16:42Great character actor.
16:43I felt myself excited, like, there's Hank, and he sounds just like Hank, talking to other
16:47people.
16:48But yeah, Obama is no Hank.
16:50Right.
16:51But, uh, but exciting.
16:53The, speaking of Obama, the podcast, WTF with Mark Maron, uh, 10 year anniversary, man.
16:59You've, you've really, really made that a, uh, just a mainstay and, and it's, you do it
17:06right.
17:06You kind of do what we like to do as a radio show.
17:09We just have conversations and we dive into whatever comes up.
17:12You have a basic idea of what you want to talk about, but it, right down, you do your
17:16homework a little bit.
17:17Yeah.
17:18Poke around a little bit.
17:19Sometimes I miss things, but you got to get used to people saying like, why didn't you
17:22ask him about it?
17:24Yeah.
17:25You should have told it.
17:26No, no, no.
17:27It's got to be on your terms, but, but you know, you're, you're, um, so, so initially you're,
17:33you're interviewing skills, your chops, where they developed on, on, on like Air America
17:37or had you, you know, did you, did you have a, uh, a good, um, good rapport, a conversation
17:42ability?
17:43Because you, again, I told you early before we went on that when we first started our
17:47interviews kind of sounded like interrogations as opposed to just conversations.
17:51And when, when did the switch flip for you?
17:53I think that's a style initially, you know, you want to get these moments.
17:57It was like the, uh, audio equivalent of clickbait.
18:00Yeah.
18:00Right.
18:00You know, you're exactly right.
18:01You kind of want to like, you know, let's get them on this one.
18:03Like I never, I, I don't, I, I don't do morning radio as much as I used to, cause I don't know
18:08what I'm walking into.
18:09I know you guys, but even phoners, you want to be on a phone with a bunch of monsters who
18:15are just looking to tear you down and you've got no way to defend yourself cause you're
18:19on a phone.
18:20Yeah.
18:20Yeah.
18:20So, but, but my style really was more about, uh, you know, inviting people I knew over to
18:26talk about my problems.
18:27Yeah.
18:28Uh, so having celebrities over to talk about my problems and maybe find some midway.
18:33It's a disarming, it's a disarming entree into, into a good conversation.
18:36I was in trouble.
18:37I was bitter.
18:38I was cynical.
18:39I had people I had to apologize to, but yeah, so it sort of evolved like that from like a
18:4312 step.
18:44Almost like I need to make an amends or like, you're like, do you like me?
18:48Or like, I don't, I'm not comfortable with you.
18:51Uh, but it was always very personal and it just kind of evolved from there.
18:54I know you've been dealing with nicotine withdrawal and I wanted to ask you how that's going.
18:58It's all right, man.
18:58Yeah.
18:59Yeah.
18:59I think I'm coming through it.
19:00I think I'm at like seven weeks.
19:02Oh, and I was, I wasn't even smoking, man.
19:04I was doing those lozenges.
19:06So that was the deal, huh?
19:08I loved him.
19:08I loved him.
19:09I haven't smoked in years.
19:09Did you ever flirt with the, uh, the vaping thing?
19:11No.
19:12Okay.
19:12I knew right away that there had to be something wrong with that.
19:15Something's going to be an issue.
19:15Well, yeah.
19:16What's in it?
19:17How, how are they making that?
19:18Who's in charge?
19:19That's the question, isn't it?
19:20I want to know if it's a, it's a, uh, a kind of a well-known, you know, historical cigarette
19:25company making me sick.
19:26I, you know, these vapes, it's like, where's the goo coming from?
19:29What are you putting in there?
19:32Where's your goo coming from?
19:33If it's not Philip Morris or, you know, RJ Reynolds, I don't want anything to do with that.
19:37Chinese goo.
19:38Chinese goo?
19:40What is that?
19:40How is that not going to be bad?
19:42Well, why'd you, why'd you start trying these lozenges?
19:44Who turned you on to that?
19:45Or where'd you get the idea to do that?
19:47Well, I've been wrestling with nicotine my whole life, but I haven't really smoked a
19:50cigarette in over a decade.
19:51So there was a period there.
19:52What happens with me is I got off the smokes.
19:54I think I had one cigarette during a Keith Richards interview, but I knew I was on the lozenges
19:58and I, cause he, he made me smoke with him.
20:00All right.
20:01Of course.
20:02Yeah.
20:02Yeah.
20:02And he's, he's got a bit of charm when it comes to getting people to do things that are bad for
20:06you.
20:06So we've heard.
20:07Yeah.
20:08He's done that to an entire generation, several, but, uh, but no, and like I was, I do the
20:14gum.
20:15It took me years to sort of quit, but then I kind of leveled off on lozenges.
20:18I was on gum for a while, but they're not good for your jaw.
20:21And then someone, Tom Rhodes, another comic.
20:23Yeah.
20:23Yeah.
20:24Yeah.
20:24He turned me on to Walgreens, uh, cinnamon, four milligram lozenge.
20:29Cinnamon.
20:29Okay.
20:30See, I was always the mint lozenge guy.
20:31Yeah.
20:32No, I don't.
20:32I, yeah.
20:33And I don't do the mint.
20:34I don't mind them in a pinch.
20:35I'll do them.
20:36You know, when you're an addict.
20:37You'll do anything.
20:38What do you got?
20:39The mini ones are too much for me.
20:40The little ones is all too quick.
20:41So were you in effect like chain sucking?
20:44Yeah.
20:44For sure, man.
20:45Are you kidding?
20:45I loved it.
20:46I looked forward to them like cigarettes.
20:47So, but what happens to me is I'll, I'll get off everything like I am now and then I'll
20:52decide like, I think I can have a cigar and then I'll have a cigar and then within two
20:56weeks I'm having two, three cigars a day and I feel like my mouth is rotting.
21:00So then I got to get back on the lozenges to get off the cigars and then I'm locked
21:04on those.
21:05So you got to look at me because I'm the only one who's currently addicted to nicotine
21:08and I, I 130% know exactly what you're talking about.
21:13What do you want?
21:14Just a mint?
21:14No, no.
21:15Now I'm on, on.
21:17Oh, you're dipping?
21:18Yeah.
21:18The thing is like with that, I've done that.
21:20But I was, but I'm not smoking, but I'm not, but I get it.
21:24But my lungs are okay, Mark.
21:25I get it.
21:26I get it.
21:27I mean, I, I, there was a period there was, I was in, I was getting imported snus from
21:32like Norway or Sweden.
21:34Like someone got me involved with snus.
21:36Yeah.
21:36Oh yeah.
21:37I think Swedish, right?
21:38Originally.
21:39But there's a whole catalog of, there's a hundred different snuses from Sweden and they say like
21:44it doesn't cause cancer, which is ridiculous.
21:46You know, spitting.
21:47But I was ordering this stuff that was so strong.
21:50Like it was like heroin.
21:51Like, you know, it's just a packet of snus and I put it in and I'd be like, oh man, I
21:56got to sit down.
21:59But like in my mind as a sober guy, I'm like, but I'm not doing anything bad.
22:03Right.
22:03You're sober too, guy?
22:04I'm sober.
22:05Sober seven and a half years.
22:06And I was actually nicotine free when I got sober.
22:09Yeah.
22:09And then about three months into my sobriety, I'm like, well, uh, this is something.
22:13I need something.
22:14I got this gigantic hole that I need to fill.
22:16And I'm going to fill it with nicotine and caffeine.
22:18And that's kind of where I'm at now.
22:19But it's, it's, it's the, it's the, my brother who had never smoked in his life when he became
22:24sober, he started smoking.
22:25Really?
22:26Yeah.
22:26I, I've been through, oh, so much.
22:28I got 20 years sober.
22:29So I've been through a lot of different options.
22:31Yeah.
22:32With the, but I'm looking, you're not even drinking coffee.
22:35I'm like, I'm like.
22:35You got food.
22:36Yeah.
22:36You got nicotine.
22:37Sex.
22:37You got sex.
22:39Yeah.
22:39And those are my, you know, if I can move those around, go through a rotation.
22:43Yeah.
22:44Like the one thing I never do, thank God, is gamble.
22:47Yeah.
22:47There's just gamble.
22:49No.
22:49I never got that sickness.
22:50Yeah.
22:50I do not like losing money.
22:52There's no, I've never had an experience with gambling that I won so much money that I
22:56felt so great that I got to spend my life trying to do that.
22:59It's funny.
22:59I get nervous while gambling.
23:00I don't, there's no rush or high.
23:02Oh, that is the rush.
23:04The nerves, that is the rush.
23:06Yeah.
23:06But it doesn't work for you.
23:07Right.
23:07Yeah.
23:08Mark, have you ever, have you ever seen some, cause I've seen a good friend of mine.
23:11Yeah.
23:11The first time we went to Vegas, I saw that switch flip.
23:15Oh man.
23:15And I, and I literally had to take his ATM card because he was going to go hard.
23:21Really?
23:21Yeah.
23:22And I said, dude, you need to put this in check now.
23:24Cause he, he would have tapped out everything.
23:26It was crazy.
23:26I lost, I think the most I lost was $800 in an evening and I'm still mad at the hotel.
23:32Of course.
23:37I tapped out at like 40.
23:39Yeah.
23:39It still hurts me.