Donal MacIntyre meets Paul Grimes, a former gangster who turned informer on two of Liverpool's major drug barons after his eldest son died of a heroin overdose.
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00:00I become a super grass because I just didn't like drugs and I didn't like what drugs was
00:07doing to people and doing to people's families. This man betrayed his own son, his friends
00:14and his family in a crusade to bring down the drug barons that were destroying his city.
00:22Has he got a death wish? Either that or he's fed up with life.
00:25But he thinks he's invincible, doesn't he?
00:32In this world, the penalty for being a super grass is death.
00:37Paul Graham's what you call a walking dead man. To me, he's a grass. He doesn't need to be around.
00:43The price on me here that would have been informed is 100 grand.
00:55Liverpool, a city with a rich trading heritage.
01:15Now, the most lucrative merchandise is drugs.
01:22It's made the fortune of many gangsters.
01:26Two of the biggest created their empires here.
01:29The billionaire drugs baron Curtis Warren and the dapper Don, John Haas.
01:34It's an ugly trade, built upon corruption, intimidation and, if necessary, murder.
01:44It worked until one of their own betrayed them.
01:48Informants are crucial in the fight against organised crime.
02:04And no one has delivered more high-profile targets to the courts
02:07than Liverpool's super grass, Paul Grimes.
02:10He lives on the edge.
02:16A hunted man, flitting between safe houses and the underworld.
02:26Despite the death threats, he bizarrely lives under the noses of the gangs and criminals he betrayed.
02:33What's that, your lucky rabbit's foot?
02:35That?
02:36Yeah.
02:36That's me, uh, dreamcatcher.
02:39Grab your bad dreams and turn them into real dreams.
02:43Nice dreams.
02:45That's what the Indians have hanging out at the tipis.
02:49That's the same white man talk with false talk.
02:55How about Paul Grimes?
02:57Me?
02:57I talk with fucking straight-tongue.
02:59That's why I get myself into a lot of trouble.
03:01Because I don't care.
03:02Ah!
03:06At one time, he was only saying people that knew me.
03:09Now every cunt knows me.
03:12People just stand and stare at them.
03:15Yeah, have I seen that face before?
03:18And then try and work it out on the mines where they've seen it.
03:21Then, when they've worked it out, they've shed grass.
03:25What?
03:28Yeah, that's when you see grass.
03:34But you don't see it to your face.
03:35You gotta drive past or fucking walk past and see it.
03:39Don't stop and see it.
03:40Grimes is despised by the underworld for bringing down the criminal empire of John Haas.
03:50It's the warehouse that John has had.
03:55Once he got behind the gates in there, behind the walls, that was his little fortress.
04:01That's where he'd run everything from there.
04:03This is where his officers used to be.
04:06He had one in the back, one in the front.
04:08The front officer's mine.
04:10You see, every part of that building is cambered up to death.
04:14If anyone come to see him, he had to stand on the gate with the radio
04:17and blow through who'd come to the gate to see if he had permission to let them in.
04:23And if he said no, they're not allowed in, they didn't get into the dock at all.
04:28And that's where he'd done all of his business in there,
04:31because that's where he thought he was infant.
04:35Grass!
04:37Get there, Ola.
04:38Get there, Ola.
04:39Grass.
04:44What was it, Ola?
04:44What was it, Ola?
04:45What was it, Ola?
04:47Within minutes of Grimes' return visit, trouble started.
04:51A security guard had recognised him.
04:55What is Paul Grimes doing here?
04:57I hope he's got two fucking police officers with him.
05:00Do you know who that cunt is?
05:02That little fucking shit.
05:04I'll don't fucking bring him near me.
05:06Who?
05:07That little fucking prick, isn't he?
05:09There's this furry story and that puff.
05:11I'll just go, why are you looking fast?
05:16Men from the pallet yard across the street approached the warehouse, brandishing metal bars.
05:23Grimes made a hasty getaway.
05:26That evening, the car was smashed up and a lump of concrete thrown through the windscreen.
05:31That fellow who's got the pallet yard across the street, I don't know what he's screaming about.
05:39John has set his fucking pallet yard on fire and shot a bullet at him so he can put a camera on his, to keep an eye on his property to get money.
05:48You know, he doesn't even fucking know that, this stupid bastard.
05:51Grimes is an old school gangster.
06:01He was an enforcer, racketeer, thief, and had a fearsome reputation.
06:11But he drew the line at the growing scourge of his community, drugs.
06:15He drew the line at the growing scourge.
06:45This used to be a nice community, even further along where I used to live.
06:57Instead of looking after the owls, they're not just looking after the rabbits.
07:01And they'd falling behind with paying rents, mortgages, things like that.
07:05Because always the money that they're making is just for drugs.
07:09That's all they're doing.
07:10Just killing themselves.
07:12Killing the community altogether.
07:14Would you not be tempted to make a lot of money out of drugs, like a lot of other gangsters?
07:27No.
07:29Not at all.
07:31Why?
07:31Because I believe is what I keep going.
07:34I'm not into killing people.
07:36Do you have to be that brutal in order to...
07:40It's just based on how you've got no feelings on what you're doing to people.
07:45Plus, you mustn't have feelings about your own kids and your own families.
07:51To do things like that.
07:52And all that's interesting is making money, making big profits.
07:57Grimes' war against drugs would take him head-to-head against some of Liverpool's biggest-ever criminals.
08:06All crimes turned super-grass and declared war on Liverpool's drug dealers when his eldest son, Jason, became involved in hard drugs.
08:24Jason had managed to escape Liverpool and a life of crime by joining the Royal Navy.
08:29He was a young lad who used to, I like having a laugh, playing football.
08:47He was in the boxing team and all that.
08:49He got the most promising boxer when he had a competition.
08:52He lost the competition, he lost the competition, but he got the most promising boxer.
08:59Like, even at school, he was good at school, he was good at athletics, he was good at everything.
09:04But he got involved with the wrong girl and ended up fucking his life up.
09:11And why he overdosed is he found out that the girl he was with had gone lesbian.
09:15I got a phone call to say that he was dead on his 21st birthday.
09:25And I'm not, you know, just, er, just got smacked over there.
09:30Our blame for him to be in here is drug dealers.
09:34Because if it wasn't for the likes of them people, he wouldn't have been into drugs.
09:39He wouldn't have been able to get hold of them.
09:41And he wouldn't have put his life through what he put it through.
09:43Injecting himself with drugs.
09:49In my time, robberies and robbers were supplied.
09:53Family and all that with clothes, food on the table, good living and what have you.
09:58But when drugs came on the scene, I wanted out of it all.
10:02Because I didn't like what the drugs were doing to people's lives.
10:08For 20 years, Grimes had been a hardened criminal.
10:11Equipped with hard hats and radios, he ran a fleet of lorries, hijacking high-value cargo as it left the docks.
10:21He used warehouses across the city to store millions of pounds worth of stolen construction equipment.
10:27Grimes boasted that he had established his criminal reputation by using extreme violence.
10:35He claimed to have thrown a man from his car, travelling at 80 miles per hour.
10:41Others who disagreed with him were beaten about the head with crowbars and left for dead.
10:46Grimes' violent activities caught the attention of John Haas, an armed robber in need of legitimate cover.
10:55In return for an investment in the company, Grimes gave Haas a job.
11:02So business with John Haas was, it started, really, it was a joke.
11:07He used to come in trousers, dressed up trousers, dressed up shit, and we used to just laugh at him.
11:12He used to put gloves on and oil on his hands and everything.
11:15He didn't like getting dirt on.
11:16He wasn't using moisturiser or some Nivea cream or something.
11:19He was using, what, your hand stuff, what you put on your hands.
11:22He's a gangster, isn't he?
11:23Well, this is what he was like. He was a vain bastard.
11:26He just used it as to let people think that he was working straight.
11:30And money that he was spending, like, because he did spend money like it was nobody's business,
11:35that he was working hard for his money.
11:37But he was still out doing his divilments overnight.
11:39What kind of divilment?
11:40Breaking into warehouses, doing armed robberies and things like that.
11:44What he was good at.
11:46Hassan Grimes unleashed a reign of terror on Liverpool.
11:50Went into Tony Murray's yard, smashed all the cars up, standing there with a shotgun.
11:56Same again, John Ars was dressed to kill.
11:59Everyone else was in boiler suits, and John Ars looked out like a sore thumb.
12:03He just looked as though he'd just come out of Lewis's window with a balaclava on.
12:07He was a kind of dapper Don, wasn't he?
12:09Yeah, this is...
12:10Who does he model himself on?
12:12I don't know. I've got a clue.
12:13I've got a clue, but that's the way he was there.
12:16Everyone else was in boiler suits, balaclavaed up, smashing thingy.
12:20He was standing there with a shotgun.
12:22And the next thing is, he did bang, and Tony Murray was shot.
12:27Hass was from the new generation of gangsters,
12:29and realised that the fastest way to the top was through drugs.
12:33He went straight to the source, the young Turk who dominated the British market, Suleiman Irgun.
12:41He had direct connections to the Turkish mafia, and they controlled the Afghan heroin route into Britain.
12:48When we found him, he had just been released from 14 years in prison for heroin dealing.
12:53How much had he been moving?
12:56Distributing.
12:56Distributing, yeah.
12:57100, 150 kilos, 90 kilos.
13:00It just depends what was coming in.
13:01A week or a month or...?
13:02A couple of months.
13:03A couple of months.
13:04That's moving straight away.
13:07He's a well-trusted figure in Liverpool.
13:09He's a well-respected person.
13:11You go along with it.
13:13Yeah.
13:13In the underworld, trust is a very big thing.
13:18The amount of trust at the beginning was unbelievable.
13:20Everything was on time.
13:21Meats were on time.
13:23Money was on time.
13:24Deliveries were on time.
13:27As their trust grew, volume increased.
13:31It wasn't long before they dominated Britain's heroin trade.
13:37People were doing tens, maximum 30.
13:40So it was a thousand percent increase.
13:41We was doing...
13:42When people were doing tens to thirty, we was doing a hundred, a hundred and fifty.
13:47We bought the price of heroin down.
13:51It was going on the street of about 23,000, 24,000 pound the key.
13:55We started sending it about 20,000, 21,000.
13:58A lot of people was not happy, but business is business.
14:04But that must have attracted immediate attention,
14:06because the people on the fringes must have been saying,
14:08these boys are moving big amounts.
14:09Well, no one would mess with us.
14:10Yeah.
14:11No, there wasn't a person in the country that would object to it.
14:15Why?
14:16Because it was too powerful.
14:17Too dangerous, too powerful.
14:19And what were the consequences of going up against you guys?
14:21Death.
14:22Death.
14:23Yeah.
14:24Hass was buying pure heroin from the Turks.
14:28And to maximise his profits,
14:30he batched the heroin,
14:31diluting it with paracetamol.
14:33Dealers are just selling,
14:38and they just want to make dope.
14:40They don't care whether it's good or whether it's bad,
14:43as long as it's selling.
14:44If it's selling, boom, they'll buy it.
14:47And if they can get it cheap,
14:49and it sells,
14:50they'll do that.
14:51And if they're the Spy,
14:51it's going to be awesome.
15:14Anyway, I will tell you.
15:15It's good.
15:16He didn't give them anything, and you wouldn't know the fucking difference.
15:46Hass and the Turks were grossing over two million pounds a month.
16:02What was it like for you to have cash?
16:04Unbelievable.
16:05Paradise.
16:06I mean, how much money would you, anything you wanted you could have had?
16:10I had unlimited access to cash.
16:14I was only young, 21, 22 years old, I was driving around in a 325 ride convertible.
16:21No one had it then, do you know what I mean?
16:25I came home with a quarter of a million pounds, emptied it on the living room floor, looked
16:30at it and just thought nothing.
16:32I didn't even want to count on it, I was so bored with seeing cash, I didn't even want
16:39to see it.
16:40So what did you do with your money?
16:42My money, threw it about, gave it to people, lent it to people, never chased it back up.
16:53Yeah, that was my money.
16:54Yeah.
16:55The rest was invaluable.
16:56Yeah.
17:28Jason Grimes died of a massive heroin overdose on his 21st birthday.
17:52Now his mother Christine lives in Plymouth, close to where he died.
17:58That was my first baby, wasn't it?
18:04And as his father used to say, Mummy's boy.
18:13And it happened on his...
18:15On his 21st birthday.
18:16He was lovely, he was intelligent.
18:22Had his pick of girls.
18:23He actually passed his 11 plus.
18:26And then when he came out of the Navy, he was devastated, you know.
18:30And then his life just went, like, sort of downhill from then.
18:33But when he died, he was a picture of health.
18:36He'd never touched drugs for seven and a half months.
18:38And he did it without medication or nothing.
18:42So he tried to wean himself off.
18:44He did it himself.
18:45He did it all himself.
18:46Whole turkey.
18:47He did it all himself.
18:49And then one relapse.
18:51And ten days later, that was it.
18:52Jason's death tore the family apart.
18:59Paul promised to get even with the heroin dealers.
19:02The opportunity came from an unexpected source.
19:11Semi-literate, Paul relied on his wife Christine to run their scrapyard.
19:16But the business was in trouble.
19:19He was soon called in for a meeting with Customs and Excise.
19:23Like, I had two meetings with the Customs over one of me businesses,
19:26because he owned VAT and all that.
19:29After they had the meeting, I asked them, without me accounting being there,
19:32if I heard anything about drug deals, was he interested?
19:35And he said, yeah.
19:36And he gave me his phone number, put his name on it.
19:39He didn't think he'd give us a ring.
19:41It was like, you tell us what you know and different things.
19:45And, you know, we'll squash that VAT bill.
19:49And how much was the VAT bill for us?
19:51I think it was about £126,000.
19:54Grimes got the opportunity soon afterwards.
19:57He was offered 32 tonnes of scrap lead by his brother, Snowball.
20:02They wanted to sell the ingots.
20:04And because I had a scrap metal business, I got involved in it then.
20:07His brother, Snowball, told Paul that the ingots had been used to conceal a massive shipment
20:14of cocaine, £70 million worth, masterminded by Curtis Cocky Warren.
20:20The people that he was involved with, with his first shipment that had come in,
20:26was told to bury the ingots and leave them buried and forget all about them.
20:30But because of greed, they didn't.
20:35Paul immediately passed the information to his handlers at customs and excise.
20:39They knew the stuff was coming in, but they didn't know how it was coming in.
20:44That was all down to me, with the ingots.
20:50Grimes' information led to the prosecution of Curtis Warren and his own brother, Snowball.
20:56The family disowned him.
20:57Well, he had no friends left.
21:00He had no, you know, he had no family left.
21:02None of his family spoke to him.
21:03None of his family spoke to him for a long time.
21:06It took his mum a long time to speak to him again, you know.
21:09His dad used to say, have you seen Tom Jones?
21:11And he'd say, you know, who's Tom Jones?
21:13And he'd go, you know, the green, green grass of home.
21:17Grimes decided to lie low and moved out of Liverpool.
21:21He gave up crime and took up painting and decorating.
21:24His role as informant was still kept a secret from Liverpool's underworld.
21:43Across the Mersey, at the Black Horse pub,
21:46John Haas and the Turks were doing big business.
21:51Customs were following them
21:52and had their every move under surveillance.
21:55I saw a man on the wall sitting there in the corner,
21:58speaking of your issues.
22:01Her handbag attracted my attention.
22:04Just her handbag, it's not the move.
22:07And I looked at it and I thought, she's old Bill.
22:09And I mentioned that.
22:13No one really battered in Ireland.
22:15And I said, I ain't comfortable.
22:16She got up and walked out.
22:17In July 1993, Customs moved in on the gang.
22:24They found 55 kilograms of heroin
22:26and 840,000 pounds in cash.
22:31The Turks were sentenced to 14 years
22:33and Haas received 18.
22:36But in a scam that would embarrass the country's political elite,
22:40John Haas would famously bluff his way out of prison
22:43and become Grimes' next target.
22:48The mid-1990s saw Michael Howard as Home Secretary.
22:53The Conservatives knew where they stood when it came to crime.
22:57It's time to birch violent young thugs.
23:01If someone has 17 previous offences,
23:05it must be a minor clue
23:07that while they're out on bail,
23:09they might do it again.
23:11We are the party of law and order.
23:14Michael, stand and deliver.
23:18I don't flinch from that.
23:21We shall no longer judge the success of our system of justice
23:25by a fall in our prison population.
23:28I want to make sure that it's the criminals that are frightened,
23:32not law-abiding members of the public.
23:40But behind the scenes,
23:43Michael Howard's department was in secret negotiations
23:45with one of the most dangerous criminals in the country,
23:49John Haas.
23:51Haas had been caught with 18 million pounds worth of heroin
23:53and was looking to get his sentence reduced.
23:56He called upon Britain's leading criminal families for help.
24:01One of them was Paul Ferris,
24:04Glasgow's most notorious crime godfather.
24:07He had been a hitman and drug dealer
24:10and was known for kneecappings and gunrunning.
24:14What I do know is,
24:16John Haas, who was on demand at that time in Liverpool,
24:20and they were putting together a £50,000 package
24:26for a procurement of arms
24:28to get him bailed or a reduced sentence.
24:33Dominic Noonan and his family ruled gangland, Manchester.
24:37With convictions for armed robbery and prison escape,
24:40he was an ideal person to help in Haas' scam.
24:43It's a well-known fact that criminals who are in situations
24:47and they've got money behind them
24:49will buy guns and plant them
24:50and say, I'll tell you where guns are.
24:53They were getting firearms,
24:54putting them in a designated area,
24:56phoning the cops up,
24:57they come and get the firearms.
24:59Firearms are off the streets.
25:01They make an application for bail
25:03based on the material that they've got,
25:06or they put it towards presentation
25:07to the judge for a reduced sentence.
25:11From inside his prison cell,
25:15Haas gave accurate locations
25:16for over 18 consignments of weapons,
25:19over 85 shotguns, 24 machine guns,
25:2314 automatic weapons,
25:252,000 rounds of ammunition and Semtex.
25:29But the information he supplied brought no arrests.
25:34He kidded everyone to war.
25:38Guns he had planted,
25:39he had everything fucking planted
25:43to get him off with the 18 years.
25:47I suppose anyone who's getting that kind of stuff handed over
25:49will get whatever they want
25:51out of the government and Semtex,
25:53don't want that in the wrong hands, do we?
25:56Semtex,
25:57he had someone planting that in cars and fucking things like that.
26:02You don't get that done for nothing.
26:04I'd say he spent about 200 grand off record.
26:07Fair play to him.
26:08I mean, if you've got that kind of money,
26:09you can pay them off and get things done, do it.
26:12Haas had done a deal with the Turks.
26:14They lent him the money to buy the weapons,
26:16and he promised that they too would be included in any deal.
26:22Turkish people are different.
26:23Turkish close loyalty
26:25is worth more than money to us.
26:30Haas' gang was involved with greed.
26:32Greed and deception.
26:36That's all they were after.
26:37Double-crossed,
26:41the Turks were left to serve their 14-year sentence
26:43while Haas was granted a royal pardon
26:46authorised by Michael Howard.
26:50Following our investigation,
26:52the circumstances surrounding Michael Howard's decision
26:55to release John Haas
26:56are now the subject of a top-level Home Office inquiry.
27:05Back on the streets,
27:06and back in business,
27:08Haas set up Big Brother Security.
27:11He based himself in a huge warehouse complex
27:14on Liverpool docks.
27:21With a new Turkish connection,
27:23he restarted heroin dealing.
27:29Haas sought out his old gang
27:31to help run the security business,
27:33and on the list
27:34was one Paul Grimes.
27:36John Haas said, look,
27:41and he's asked me
27:42who we work for,
27:43on the security,
27:44blah, blah, blah,
27:45and all that, carry on.
27:46And he said,
27:47if you want a job,
27:48give us a ring.
27:49Half an hour later,
27:50I got on the phone to my handler,
27:51phoned them,
27:52told them what went on,
27:54and I said,
27:54do you want me to go for it?
27:55And he said, go for it.
27:56This is your handler,
27:57Customs and Excise?
27:57Yeah.
27:58With official blessing
27:59and a code name of Oscar Wilde,
28:02Grimes took up Haas's offer
28:04of a security job
28:05with Big Brother.
28:07Again, he started off
28:09as a guard for him,
28:10minding the site,
28:10and I built myself up
28:12to his supervisor.
28:13Then he ended up
28:14running his business for him
28:15while he got on
28:16with doing what he was doing.
28:30Again, he's trust.
28:31See, the reason why
28:32I got so close to Haas
28:34is because I knew him years ago
28:37and he knew that I was
28:39a stand-up fella, Dad.
28:41You know,
28:42and that's how I got close to him.
28:45Over the next two years,
29:11Grimes embedded himself
29:13deep in the heart
29:14of Haas's new empire.
29:15Grimes had access
29:25to all areas
29:26of the vast warehouses
29:27Haas controlled.
29:30He even supplied
29:31hydrofluoric acid
29:32for an acid bath
29:33in the cellars.
29:36Further down
29:37was a shooting range
29:38where criminals
29:39were invited
29:39to test guns
29:40they were thinking
29:41of buying.
29:42Haas was working
30:03with renewed confidence.
30:04After his royal pardon,
30:07he felt invincible.
30:10But behind the scenes,
30:12Grimes was secretly
30:13reporting his every move
30:14to customs.
30:15I used to have to meet them.
30:19I'd have to say,
30:20I'll meet you at, say,
30:21half ten and such and such,
30:23cafe,
30:23I've got half an hour with you,
30:25or ten minutes with you,
30:26and then I've got to be
30:27on the road.
30:28But I still had to have
30:29my phone on
30:30in case Haas wanted to phone me
30:32to see where I was.
30:33The risk was quite big.
30:38I'm putting my life
30:39on the line.
30:41That's why I joined
30:42the gym and all that,
30:44because the stress
30:45that I was going under,
30:47I had to go to the gym
30:48and fucking make it off.
30:50Otherwise,
30:51it had just exploded
30:52altogether.
30:54It's just,
30:55it is nerve-wracking.
30:58Customs,
30:59with Grimes' help,
31:00arrange for a bug
31:01to be placed
31:02in Haas' private office.
31:05Grimes was putting
31:06his life on the line,
31:07but it supplied customs
31:09with high-quality evidence.
31:11It's all nerve-wracking,
31:13what you've got to go through
31:14and all that kind of thing.
31:15It's just all nerve-wracking.
31:18You know, because
31:19you like splitting yourself
31:21in half,
31:23and you're playing a bad guy,
31:24and you're playing a good guy.
31:27So you're getting yourself
31:28confused.
31:30To improve the information
31:31he was getting,
31:33Grimes recruited
31:33his second son, Heath,
31:35to work for the rapidly
31:36expanding Big Brother.
31:40That's Kirkland's over there.
31:42It's where he had
31:42all the windows smashed
31:43so he could get the security
31:45on there,
31:46get the door.
31:48Every window in there
31:49he had smashed,
31:50now they're all plastic.
31:54Without telling customs,
31:55Grimes drove Heath around,
31:57teaching him
31:58the art of extortion.
32:00There's the place there.
32:03That one there,
32:05the one in town,
32:06did the one out in bootle.
32:08You know,
32:08I don't have any cars,
32:09he said six cars,
32:11I'm firing them one night.
32:14With his father's help,
32:16Heath soon became
32:17Hass's top arsonist
32:18and a valuable right-hand man.
32:20Paul Grimes now faced a dilemma.
32:29The information
32:29he was secretly supplying
32:31could incriminate
32:32his own son.
32:35Heath was warned.
32:37I don't know how many times
32:38he got away from us.
32:39Heath wasn't bothered
32:40as long as he was getting
32:42the fucking money off him.
32:44And he told him,
32:45Heath was getting good money off him.
32:47He wasn't getting 100 quid here
32:48and he was getting grans off him.
32:52Like,
32:52you're talking to go
32:53and set a car on fire
32:55or two car,
32:56two grand he was getting
32:57for doing that.
32:59That's a lot of fucking money.
33:01He's just going to throw
33:02a petrol in a car
33:03and set it on fire.
33:04That's a lot of money,
33:05five minutes' work
33:05for two grand.
33:10He sets a club on fire,
33:11you're talking to,
33:12I think he was getting
33:12five, six grand.
33:14When Grimes found out
33:16that Heath was getting involved
33:17in Hass's drug deals,
33:19he tried to warn him off.
33:22See, Heath was doing
33:23a lot of things for us
33:24but not telling me about them.
33:26Like, I didn't know
33:26he took gear up to Scotland
33:29and was on his way back
33:31with 24 grand.
33:32I took off on him
33:33and I said,
33:34what was Heath doing
33:34going to Scotland
33:36with fucking drugs
33:38and coming back with mine?
33:40He was only supposed
33:40to have been doing
33:41what he was doing
33:42and not just fucking
33:43running drugs around.
33:44But going to Supergrass
33:45and shopping your own son?
33:49Yeah.
33:50A lot of people would think
33:51it would draw the line
33:52of family, wouldn't they?
33:54Yeah, well,
33:55you say blood is taken
33:57and water,
33:57which it is,
33:58but the thing is
33:59when you give your son
34:00that many opportunities
34:01to get away from a person
34:03that you knew
34:04that you was
34:04giving information on
34:07and he wouldn't take
34:08the advice
34:09that you was giving him,
34:10what can you do?
34:11Grimes resigned himself
34:14to betraying his son.
34:16Heath had become
34:16too close
34:17to customs' primary target,
34:20John Haas.
34:24What was the most
34:26convincing evidence
34:27that you managed
34:27to generate against him?
34:30It was the guns.
34:33When he'd done
34:34the deal over the guns,
34:35like,
34:36customs had everything
34:36that he was up to,
34:37but the guns
34:38was the main part.
34:40With information
34:41supplied by Grimes,
34:43customs knew
34:44when each deal
34:45was happening
34:45and chose their moment
34:47to act.
34:48I was out on the site,
34:49John Haas phoned me up
34:50to come down
34:51to the dock
34:52and I got down
34:54the dock,
34:54he said,
34:55Heath's on his way down,
34:56open the gate,
34:56let him in
34:57and that was it.
34:58So Heath come in
34:59in his car,
35:00let him in.
35:00He went over,
35:01spoke to us,
35:03a bag was handed
35:04to Heath
35:04which was full of guns.
35:06Heath,
35:07I opened the gate,
35:08Heath went out
35:08and that was it.
35:10And that was the deal
35:12that they got them on.
35:13Heath Grimes,
35:14John Haas
35:15and three others
35:16were arrested
35:17in coordinated raids
35:18around Liverpool.
35:20The news came as a shock
35:21to Christine Grimes,
35:24Heath's mother.
35:25I was told about
35:27the arrest
35:28on the phone.
35:29My son's partner
35:30rang me and told me
35:31that he'd been arrested
35:33and she filled me in
35:36on all the details.
35:37I said,
35:38I bet you my life,
35:39I said,
35:40that is Paul Grimes
35:41and it was
35:42and it was.
35:45I could read him
35:46like a book.
35:47When I spoke
35:48to his father
35:49after he was arrested,
35:52I turned around
35:53and I said,
35:54why didn't you,
35:56you know,
35:56that is your son,
35:58why didn't you
35:59get him out?
35:59You've already lost one,
36:01why put another one,
36:02you know,
36:03through sheer hell?
36:03You gave him the job
36:05so therefore,
36:05you know,
36:06you could have
36:07took the job off him.
36:10And then...
36:11He told me to F off
36:15and mind me own business.
36:18Bye.
36:20He really,
36:21he really turned the key
36:22on that cell door.
36:23He turned the key
36:24on that cell.
36:26You know.
36:28There's a lot of things
36:29I've forgave him for.
36:31That's one thing,
36:32one thing I could never,
36:32forgive him for.
36:34Nothing.
36:36Nothing.
36:41That was it.
36:42And that's the last time
36:43I've ever spoke to him.
36:45Last time I've ever
36:46spoke to him.
36:53Grimes testified
36:54against Haas
36:55and his own son.
36:58This time,
36:59there would be
36:59no royal pardons.
37:01As a result,
37:03Haas was sentenced
37:04to 13 years
37:05and Heath Grimes
37:06to five years.
37:09But by giving evidence,
37:11Paul Grimes
37:12had blown his cover
37:13and with a £100,000
37:15price on his head,
37:16would have to spend
37:17the rest of his life
37:18in hiding.
37:19How safe
37:24is it to be
37:25Paul Grimes
37:26right now?
37:28Not safe at all.
37:29It's a case of,
37:31it's not a case of,
37:34if it comes,
37:36it's when it comes,
37:37it's coming.
37:39It'll come.
37:40Paul Grimes
37:41would be?
37:42Paul Grimes
37:42would be,
37:43as well,
37:43what you call
37:44a walking dead man.
37:44I think personally
37:47it would be
37:48the case
37:48when John has
37:49to get excited,
37:49he'd probably
37:50want to do it himself
37:50or that's when
37:52he'll give the order.
37:54Because if I was
37:55serving a long
37:55prison sentence,
37:56I'd fucking
37:56wet him dead or not.
37:59No doubt about it.
38:03Supergrass Paul Grimes
38:04is in hiding,
38:06responsible for
38:06bringing down
38:07some of Liverpool's
38:08biggest ever
38:09gangsters.
38:10He has a £100,000
38:11price on his head.
38:13I wouldn't
38:15shed a tear.
38:17I pity the poor
38:18bloke,
38:18but I wouldn't
38:19shed a tear.
38:20Because I've
38:22shed tears
38:24for years,
38:25you know,
38:25and I shed
38:26my last tears
38:26for years and
38:27years ago.
38:28I've got no
38:29friends.
38:30I've never
38:31had any friends.
38:32I've had acquaintances,
38:33but not friends.
38:35This is a big
38:35difference.
38:41I don't let
38:42anyone get
38:43that close
38:43to me
38:43to be
38:44my friend.
38:45Never have
38:46done,
38:46never will they.
38:47Because I've
38:49done what I've
38:49done for a
38:50purpose and a
38:51reason,
38:52and that's
38:53all there is
38:53to it.
38:54That's why I'll
38:54never let
38:55anyone get
38:55that close
38:56to me.
38:57I don't
38:58have no
38:58family.
38:59I do have
39:00a family,
39:01but they
39:01disown me.
39:02OK.
39:03Thank you
39:04very much.
39:06Grimes'
39:17crusade
39:18has cost
39:18him dear.
39:20He informed
39:20on his own
39:21son, and
39:21he has
39:22informed on
39:22his brother.
39:24His sisters
39:24have not
39:25spoken to
39:25him for
39:2515 years,
39:27and his
39:27wife left
39:28him for
39:28betraying
39:29the family.
39:29Grimes has
39:47lived in a
39:48safe house
39:48for six
39:49years.
39:50Not even
39:51his mother
39:51knows where
39:52he lives.
39:59I'm in
40:02my old
40:03people's
40:03home.
40:04Am I?
40:04That's where
40:05I live.
40:07An old
40:07people's
40:07home.
40:10That's where
40:11I live.
40:12All old
40:12people live
40:12here.
40:13I'm the
40:14youngest
40:14one that
40:14lives here.
40:16I'm happy.
40:18Got my
40:19telly, got
40:19my DVDs,
40:20got my
40:20stereo system,
40:22got a pub
40:23round the
40:23corner,
40:24a pub
40:24round that
40:24corner,
40:25and I'm
40:25plugged down
40:25the
40:25road.
40:28That's
40:29it.
40:29I can
40:32walk round
40:33and hold
40:33my head
40:34up and
40:36be proud.
40:39I don't
40:39walk round
40:40with my
40:40head slumped
40:41down and
40:41fucking
40:42iron and
40:43all that.
40:43I walk
40:43round with
40:44my head
40:44held high
40:45because I'm
40:46not running
40:46away from
40:47anyone.
40:49I'm not
40:49running away
40:50from them.
40:51Do you think
40:51you'd be more
40:51in danger if
40:52you ran away
40:52than if you
40:53stayed where
40:53you are?
40:54There's another
40:55scenario to
40:57that.
40:57It's like
40:57when they
41:00offered...
41:00Years ago
41:02when I was
41:02married and
41:03I was
41:03carrying on
41:04with women,
41:04I used to
41:05take women
41:05to Southport,
41:07Warrington
41:07and all that,
41:08and I guarantee
41:09you some
41:10cunts up
41:10there would
41:11fucking bump
41:11into that
41:12knew me.
41:14And you're
41:14taking people,
41:15women,
41:15out of the
41:16way so you
41:17don't get
41:17caught.
41:18And there's a
41:18nap someone
41:19bumps into
41:20you.
41:20Who's this
41:21you with?
41:22Where's
41:22your wife?
41:24There's
41:24almost
41:24someone
41:25who catches
41:26you.
41:33Despite
41:33the laughter,
41:34Grimes lives
41:35a nervous
41:36existence.
41:39There's
41:39the helicopter
41:40again.
41:47A week
41:48ago,
41:48Grimes'
41:49father died
41:50after a long
41:50illness.
41:52The news
41:52had hit
41:53the streets.
41:54Grimes feared
41:55the underworld
41:56would take
41:56the opportunity
41:57to stage
41:58an ambush.
41:59When it
42:00came to
42:00Haas,
42:01not even
42:02funerals
42:03were off-limit.
42:05It's supposed
42:06to be,
42:06I think.
42:07But when you
42:07got a fucking
42:08lunatic like
42:09John has,
42:12you know what I mean?
42:13He tried to get
42:14someone to
42:15talk to an
42:15aid to
42:16the
42:16nurse
42:17what she
42:18wanted to
42:18and he was
42:19only fighting.
42:20Whereas I
42:22put him in
42:23jail,
42:23which is an
42:24entirely
42:24different
42:25matter,
42:25isn't it?
42:26Right.
42:29Grimes was
42:29desperate to
42:30pay his
42:30respects,
42:31but struggled
42:32with the
42:32huge risks
42:33involved in
42:34attending the
42:35funeral.
42:36I've only
42:37rare come
42:37over to
42:38Liverpool,
42:39only unless
42:39I've got to.
42:41It's a
42:42shit hole.
42:43Will they not
42:43eventually
42:44catch up with you
42:45and it's
42:45well that's
42:47the chance
42:47I've got to
42:47take,
42:48isn't it?
42:48Ours will
42:49probably do it
42:49when he gets
42:50out,
42:50he'll probably
42:51want to try
42:51and do it
42:52when he gets
42:52out himself.
42:53If he wants
42:54to try and
42:54do it,
42:54he can try it.
42:56Whether he
42:56succeeds or not,
42:57that's an
42:57entirely different
42:58matter.
42:58He's got
43:00quite stingy
43:01silver
43:01Mercedes,
43:02that was
43:02behind us
43:03before.
43:03Were we
43:04being followed
43:04do you think?
43:05He was
43:05alongside us
43:07at the
43:07lights,
43:08then he
43:08pulled back
43:09up,
43:09he pulled
43:10in front
43:10of us
43:10and then
43:10he got
43:11behind us.
43:12This
43:12fella here?
43:13Yeah,
43:13in the
43:13jack.
43:16Looks like
43:17a straight
43:17member to
43:18me.
43:19They all
43:19look for
43:20the straight
43:20members,
43:21don't they?
43:22They should
43:22come that
43:22way.
43:23Worried
43:24about being
43:24recognised,
43:25even by his
43:26own family,
43:27Paul ducks
43:28down as
43:28the
43:29cortege
43:29passes.
43:30There it is,
43:30come on past
43:31this way.
43:33Come on past
43:33there.
43:35There.
43:36Come on past
43:37this way,
43:38from behind
43:38you.
43:44He's shouting.
43:47He's shouting.
43:50He's shouting.
43:52Go.
43:53He saw
43:54his father
43:54buried through
43:55binoculars.
43:56When you
43:57were at the
43:58darkness,
43:58no BMWs
44:00go past.
44:01No,
44:02no BMWs.
44:05What colour?
44:06Black.
44:08There's one
44:08just gone past
44:09and pulled over
44:09down there
44:10and two fellas
44:12in it.
44:17I want to see
44:18who that BMW
44:19was.
44:19too scared to
44:25be in the
44:25same street
44:26as his
44:26father's funeral,
44:27Grimes
44:28drives off.
44:30He is
44:30forced now
44:31to confront
44:32the reality
44:32of the life
44:33he had chosen.
44:35There is an
44:36old saying
44:37in me that
44:38your life is
44:40already being
44:40planned and
44:41mapped out
44:41for you
44:42when you go.
44:43so maybe
44:45it's not
44:45me,
44:46it's my
44:46life.
44:48Maybe I
44:49was a
44:49bastard or
44:50done something
44:51wrong in
44:51my previous
44:52life,
44:52I don't
44:52know.
44:55And this
44:55is my
44:55punishment
44:56for that.
45:00After 12
45:01years living
45:01in the
45:02shadow of
45:02death and
45:03the pressures
45:04of being
45:04amongst the
45:05people he
45:05betrayed,
45:06Grimes is
45:07now trying
45:08to leave
45:08his native
45:09city.
45:10He has
45:11asked his
45:11handlers to
45:12provide a new
45:12safe house
45:13well away
45:14from Liverpool.
45:17Grimes is
45:17looking at
45:18locations all
45:19over Britain.
45:21Having
45:21abandoned
45:22gangland and
45:23been disowned
45:23by his
45:24family, he
45:25now faces a
45:26future in
45:27isolation.
45:29The price he
45:29has to pay
45:30for his own
45:31survival.
45:42house.
45:44The price he
45:45has to pay
45:46for his
45:46reasons.
45:50The price he
45:52plans, the
45:52reality is
45:53to be
45:53for the
45:55community.
45:55Mr.
45:56twitter, we
45:56will have to
45:56bring
45:57the
45:59agenda
45:59together.
46:00It was no
46:01huge
46:01time, but
46:02that was
46:03more
46:03infrastructure.
46:04You