Interview with Dirty Dough Founder Bennett Maxwell about his inspirational mission, creating balanced social media content, and podcasting with purpose.
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00:00 Welcome to Restaurant Influencers presented by Entrepreneur.
00:03 My name is Sean Walsh,
00:04 a founder of Cali BBQ and Cali BBQ Media.
00:08 In life, in the restaurant business,
00:10 and in the new creator economy,
00:12 we learn through lessons and stories.
00:14 We got an incredible episode today.
00:16 We have Bennett Maxwell.
00:18 You can find him @BennettMaxwell35 on Instagram,
00:22 TikTok, LinkedIn, all the platforms that matter.
00:25 You can find his brand @dirty_doe. Bennett, welcome to the show.
00:31 Thank you. I appreciate it. Giving me the plugs before you even start. I like it.
00:35 That's how we do it.
00:36 If we can't tag you,
00:39 we can't pimp you. That's how it goes down on the social storytelling.
00:43 We're grateful to Toast,
00:44 our primary technology partner for believing in this show,
00:47 for believing in the power of storytelling,
00:49 for helping hospitality professionals sell more things online.
00:54 Really giving us this opportunity to have conversations like this.
00:58 You guys are in for a treat because Bennett is playing the game within the game,
01:02 as we like to say.
01:03 Bennett, where in the world is your favorite stadium,
01:06 stage, or venue?
01:08 My favorite stadium, stage, or venue?
01:12 That is a hard one for somebody that doesn't go to any sporting events.
01:21 Vivid Arena.
01:23 You can go concert?
01:24 Vivid Arena, that's where I go because I'm in Salt Lake.
01:27 We go to concerts there.
01:28 We went to Disney on Ice with the kids there recently.
01:31 That's the only venue.
01:33 What's the venue called?
01:35 Vivid Smart Home Arena.
01:37 Vivid.
01:37 It's where the jazz play.
01:39 Okay. Vivid Smart. What is it?
01:41 It's a security system.
01:43 Security system with naming rights for the jazz stadium.
01:47 Yeah.
01:48 Wow. They must be doing very well for themselves.
01:50 Naming rights are cheap these days.
01:52 Yeah.
01:53 No, they're doing well.
01:54 They're the largest door-to-door company in the nation.
01:58 I'm sure the world as well, but they're out of here in Utah.
02:02 Wow. That's impressive.
02:03 Cool.
02:03 Well, we'll go to where the jazz play.
02:06 We're going to put you on center court.
02:08 We're going to rent out the entire place and the people that listen to this show,
02:12 hospitality professionals, content creators from all over the world.
02:15 We're going to come and pack the arena NBA style.
02:19 I know you guys had the all-star game there, so NBA all-star style.
02:22 I'm going to put you on center court and I'm going to tell you,
02:25 I need your elevator pitch.
02:26 Bennett, you're a man that's built many companies, sold companies.
02:30 Give this stadium a standing ovation for what have you built with Dirty Dough?
02:35 Dirty Dough is the world's most simplistic food franchise.
02:39 We've taken out a lot of the headaches of labor,
02:43 employees, doing things by hand, and automated that.
02:49 When you compare us to any of the competitors out there in
02:52 the large gourmet cookie space, from what I've seen,
02:55 everybody's doing everything by hand.
02:57 You order your own ingredients,
02:59 you mix 60 cookies at a time,
03:01 you weigh it by hand,
03:02 you portion it by hand, you form it by hand.
03:05 We mix thousands of cookies at a time in a centralized production spot.
03:10 We get our cost of goods a lot lower because we centralize all of it.
03:15 Produce it from there.
03:16 We do the world's only three-layer cookie with this particular machine.
03:21 You have a peanut butter cookie on the outside,
03:23 chocolate dough in the middle,
03:25 and in the very center, there's hot fudge.
03:27 We ship out this cookie dough puck to
03:29 our franchisees and all they have to do is put it in the oven.
03:32 We operate out of less than a thousand square feet with one or two employees at a time.
03:36 Really, really easy and simple to run.
03:38 That's what Dirty Dough is all about,
03:40 is simplicity, empowering people through
03:43 entrepreneurship with a simplistic food franchise model,
03:46 as well as a mental health message to the world of,
03:50 it's what's on the inside matters most because we focus on
03:52 the inside of the cookies rather than the outside.
03:55 >> Love it. Recently, you launched your own podcast.
04:00 Tell me, why did you launch the show?
04:03 >> Yeah, Deeper Than Dough. It goes along with that mental health messaging.
04:08 Before I bought Dirty Dough,
04:11 I had a solar company just down the street from you, Sean,
04:14 and loved the area,
04:16 loved everything going about it.
04:18 >> Most people don't leave San Diego, by the way.
04:20 >> I know.
04:21 >> Are you okay? Are you feeling okay?
04:23 >> Cookies drew me away.
04:25 >> Cookies so good, you'd leave San Diego.
04:27 There's your new tagline.
04:28 >> Exactly. Solar was going great and I was working really hard and I was
04:33 really good at solar sales and recruiting and that whole gig.
04:38 When I sold the company,
04:40 I told myself that once I had X amount of dollars in the bank,
04:44 and X amount of rental properties,
04:47 then I would have more free time to go on vacation with my family and be happier.
04:52 Well, that happened and selling the company was great,
04:55 and the money hit my account was great,
04:57 and I had a handful of rental properties.
04:59 All of that was great. Within a week or so,
05:01 I fell back into my routine of just like I'm always grinding working.
05:06 I started looking inward.
05:08 I'm like, "Okay, I need to break this habit or it's
05:10 I'm going to do this for the rest of my life and I'm going to
05:11 miss my kids growing up and I have three kids."
05:14 That was my personal journey of looking inward.
05:18 Why do not my actions not match what I tell myself,
05:22 I believe, which is family is most important,
05:24 but yet I'm spending most of my time with my job.
05:27 I completely restructured my life,
05:29 came up with my mission statement,
05:31 had Dirty Doe adopt that mission statement and it gave me so much clarity.
05:35 Then I started this podcast,
05:37 Deeper Than Doe, so more than money.
05:41 What's the actual goalpost or target that we're going for?
05:45 If it's money, we're going to be disappointed when we get there
05:48 because you're going to get a dopamine hit and guess what?
05:50 That dopamine doesn't stay in your brain for that long.
05:52 You really have to find that joy and fulfillment on
05:55 the way rather than hope that it's at the destination.
05:59 That's what the Deeper Than Doe podcast is all about is mainly entrepreneurs,
06:03 but what is giving us joy and fulfillment in life and in our businesses,
06:07 and how are we helping other people have more joy and fulfillment through entrepreneurship?
06:13 >> I love it. Recently, I'm a huge fan of Jesse Itzler.
06:17 Jesse Itzler is a keynote speaker, content creator.
06:20 He's married to the founder of Spanx,
06:23 but he does an incredible job just creating content.
06:26 One recently, he posted something on Instagram of all these successful people,
06:30 and he said the common thread between all of them was,
06:33 don't give up what you have,
06:35 chasing what you want.
06:37 What for you,
06:42 what is the thing that you have that you don't want to give up?
06:46 >> I have an amazing family.
06:48 I have a beautiful wife and I have three kids,
06:50 six, four, and two,
06:51 and I have an amazing relationship with all of them.
06:53 We go on dates, at least the older two,
06:56 the two daughters, the six and four,
06:57 every day, where are we going to go?
06:59 These are like quick dates like Walmart or doing a yoga session together.
07:06 But that's something that I don't want to give up.
07:09 I see so many other people get so lost in work,
07:12 and I'm interviewing people on the podcast.
07:15 I'm 30, I just turned 30,
07:17 and they're 40 or 50,
07:18 and they're like, "Man, yeah, I miss my kids growing up."
07:20 I was like, "That's not going to be me."
07:23 >> Yeah. Now, as somebody that's been successful,
07:27 sold companies, and you have a podcast that's deeper than dough,
07:32 so much of what we do on this show,
07:34 we're talking about storytelling,
07:36 talking about being bigger than just one restaurant or
07:39 multiple restaurants is having a bigger mission.
07:43 What compelled you to launch the show and why podcasting?
07:49 >> I really love the idea of being able to interview
07:54 other people and see what they're doing compared to what I'm doing.
07:58 It was really like, how do I learn from other people?
08:01 How do I educate other people on the things that
08:04 I do know and I challenge people on the podcast.
08:09 I don't know, a month or so ago,
08:11 somebody said something like, "Well, what are you going to do?
08:13 If you have an investor meeting at 6 PM,
08:15 of course, you're going to go to it. You have to go to it,
08:17 and you're not going to be with your family."
08:18 I'm like, "Well, no, I'm not going to it."
08:21 There's nobody that's that important that's going to
08:25 dictate the hours that I live my life with my family or with this.
08:29 It's like if they can't wait till the next effing day,
08:32 then they're not your partner anyway.
08:34 A lot of it was just sharing the story and sharing my experiences,
08:38 challenging other people to be better and then also learning from.
08:41 I've had so many people say,
08:43 "I do this to stay on top of
08:45 my mental health and stay in a good headspace.
08:47 This is what I do.
08:49 Yesterday or two days ago,
08:51 I was interviewing somebody and he talked about
08:53 suicidal thoughts that he had and how he then went and shared
08:57 those thoughts with his kids that are teenagers and said,
09:02 "Hey, I just want to be up front and honest with you."
09:04 This was two or three years ago.
09:05 Now, he has such a good relationship with
09:07 his kids because he was open and vulnerable of how he was feeling.
09:11 Now, he's like, "Now, my kids are my support."
09:13 Which I'm just like, "That blew me away."
09:14 You're like, "No, no, no. Dads have to be strong.
09:16 You can't." He's like, "Nope, I'm not."
09:18 He's like, "This is how I've been doing it,"
09:21 and it's brought him closer to his kids while providing support.
09:24 I've also loved learning from other people and
09:27 their tips and tricks on how to stay sharp mentally.
09:31 >> What was the turning point?
09:33 Because as somebody as young as you are,
09:35 you said you're 30 years old?
09:36 >> Yes.
09:37 >> As somebody as young as you are,
09:38 typically, you're building companies,
09:41 you're successful at building companies.
09:43 Like you said, you sold your company and within a week,
09:46 you are already on to the next thing.
09:49 But what was the turning point of understanding
09:51 that it wasn't just about the money,
09:53 it was about something deeper?
09:55 >> The turning point was,
09:58 I thought I was going to feel a certain way and I did.
10:01 It was amazing, but it went away.
10:04 It's like, "Well, how long is that going to last?"
10:05 Really, the turning point was realizing that
10:08 that great feeling of success after
10:11 selling the company is only temporary.
10:14 Then what do you do? Do I choose the next shiny object?
10:17 It's like, "Okay, well, I'm going to run
10:19 dirty until we have 1,000 locations and then sell it."
10:21 Because that is the next shiny object for me.
10:23 Well, if I do, that's going to take me,
10:25 I mean, we're growing really quickly.
10:27 >> How many locations do you have now?
10:29 >> We just opened up store number 15,
10:32 and we franchised a year ago, but we've sold 320.
10:35 We're opening up one every week right now, one or two a week.
10:39 I think we'll hit it in five years,
10:41 but I'm not going to put my joy and
10:43 fulfillment on the sideline for the next five years.
10:45 I'm going to find,
10:47 I guess, joy in the journey along the way.
10:49 That was the tipping point is,
10:51 I was 28 when I sold the company and it was just like,
10:53 "Oh, crap, I'm going to do this for
10:55 the rest of my life if I don't change."
10:56 I started seeing a therapist just saying,
10:59 "Hey, why am I telling myself this,
11:02 but doing something completely different?"
11:04 Then it was really, "Okay, well,
11:05 what do you want to be known for?"
11:07 I started really searching inward.
11:09 I didn't have a mission statement.
11:11 Now I do, which drives everything.
11:13 My mission statement, which is
11:14 dirty dose mission statement as well,
11:16 is to find joy and fulfillment despite
11:18 life's dirtiness in myself and others.
11:21 I want to be happy. I want to be fulfilled.
11:22 Fulfillment comes from working on
11:24 something bigger than myself.
11:26 Despite life's dirtiness, to me,
11:29 is don't wait to sell your solar company
11:31 to find the joy and fulfillment.
11:32 I need to focus on myself
11:34 first and help as many people as possible.
11:35 Once I did that, then the next step was core value.
11:38 This is what drives me.
11:39 Then it's easy to make those decisions of,
11:42 "Hey, come to this business networking event dinner.
11:44 It's at 8 PM." It's like, "No.
11:47 I've already decided I'm not going.
11:49 I don't even know what it is because I don't work
11:50 past five because I'm not going to sacrifice my family.
11:53 I have enough right now.
11:54 I just need to freaking enjoy it in
11:57 the work hours and then enjoy
11:58 my family in the off work hours.
12:00 >> Huge news. Toast,
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12:08 so many of the guests that we have on this show,
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12:33 One of the biggest difficulties that
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12:45 This is huge news for the restaurant industry,
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12:59 How do you integrate reservations,
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13:06 The point that when you decided to go see a therapist,
13:11 how did you get to there?
13:14 >> There's a show called Billions,
13:16 and there's a guy named Bobby Axelrod.
13:19 You see this in multiple other shows,
13:22 of people struggling with just that overdrive in our brain,
13:27 the next thing, next thing, next thing.
13:29 This dude, I think in the show,
13:32 it's been a few years,
13:33 but I think he hit $10 billion,
13:36 and he's still going for the next thing.
13:38 He went and did some ayahuasca retreat, plant medicine.
13:42 If he's doing that, I know it's a fictional show,
13:45 but if he's doing that at $10 billion,
13:47 and I'm only at a few million dollars,
13:50 I'm going to do this for the rest of my effing life.
13:53 You know what I mean? That was like, I have to change.
13:56 How do I change? I don't know.
13:58 What is a therapist? I don't know.
14:01 Therapy is for wimps.
14:03 That's what I grew up with.
14:05 But I'm like, well, what's the worst that can happen?
14:07 I go there, I feel uncomfortable, and I leave.
14:09 I'm a freaking door-to-door salesman.
14:11 I've knocked 100,000 doors.
14:13 I'll go talk to a freaking therapist.
14:15 It was a little like, I didn't know how to do it.
14:17 I didn't want to find somebody.
14:19 And I thought it was going to be expensive, which it wasn't.
14:20 It was $10 copay with insurance.
14:23 And I still see a therapist like every other week, typically.
14:28 And it's really good to see the lens and the world
14:32 from not what's going to make my business,
14:34 what's going to make me the most wealth,
14:37 but rather what's going to make me
14:39 the most comfortable with myself.
14:41 And then that judges my business decisions,
14:44 which, or determines my business decisions,
14:47 which then make me happier and in a better mind space.
14:50 And then I'm more productive.
14:51 And it still increases the wealth
14:55 or the enterprise value of my business
14:56 more than anything else has.
14:58 So focusing on myself and getting myself correct first
15:01 has definitely been the best decision I've ever made.
15:03 - I appreciate you having the courage to share that
15:06 on a show like this.
15:08 It's important for us.
15:09 You've obviously created a show to talk about mental health.
15:13 And I believe in the hospitality business,
15:16 we're very bad at talking about mental health.
15:19 It's crazy as an industry,
15:22 we spend so much time giving back to others,
15:24 giving back to our community, giving back to our team,
15:27 but very rarely do we give back to ourselves
15:30 and prioritize ourselves.
15:32 I too see a therapist, we talk about therapy,
15:35 and I appreciate you having the courage
15:38 to continue to talk about it
15:40 because unfortunately most of the time it's too late.
15:44 I mean, it's never too late,
15:45 but it's better to be proactive than reactive.
15:48 And if anybody's listening to the show,
15:51 there's incredible resources out there.
15:52 I'm not a specialist by any means, nor is Bennett,
15:56 but we're here having a conversation as men,
15:59 as fathers, husbands,
16:01 and yeah, it's important to begin the conversation.
16:06 - That proactive approach is really,
16:08 'cause I'm like, I didn't see a therapist
16:10 because I had anxiety or bipolar depression or something.
16:13 I started seeing a therapist just like,
16:14 what the hell is my mind?
16:17 What is my psyche?
16:18 What is consciousness?
16:19 And I started diving deep into meditation and all that,
16:21 but I'm like, I'm so glad I did do it proactively
16:25 because as Dirty Doze started growing more
16:27 and we started taking investments
16:28 and now we're opening up a store a week right now,
16:31 it's like, it's stressful as hell.
16:34 And I think if I started down the mental health journey
16:36 of like, I need to be proactive and set aside space
16:40 and know how to cope with stress,
16:41 if I started doing that right now,
16:43 I would be behind, I'd be screwed over.
16:45 So when I started doing it, I'm like,
16:47 I think everybody needs to,
16:49 I mean, what's the most important thing in life?
16:52 I feel like most people are gonna agree that we're here,
16:55 we wanna find joy, we wanna find fulfillment.
16:58 Like that's what pretty much everybody's after.
17:01 What's the number one determining factor in how you feel?
17:04 What's your mood?
17:05 What's your mind?
17:07 And that's your mental health.
17:09 But mental health is like,
17:10 oh no, mental health is depression.
17:12 No, it's like mental health is your health mentally.
17:14 Who is going to the gym that only goes to the gym
17:18 when they're diagnosed with cancer or heart disease
17:22 or whatever?
17:23 It's like, no, you have to be proactive.
17:24 So I'm a very big proponent of everybody
17:26 should be taking care of themselves, their minds first.
17:30 And the more you dive into that, then it's like, okay,
17:32 well, the mind's connected with the body.
17:34 I do need to exercise 'cause that increases my mood.
17:36 I do need to go into the sauna or the cold baths
17:38 or red light.
17:39 Like there's so many different things
17:40 that you do to your body to enhance your mood.
17:43 But I'm a big believer in being proactive.
17:45 - Yeah, I think I was listening to a podcast
17:47 with the diary of a CEO and he had Simon Sinek on
17:50 and he was talking, I don't like mental health
17:52 is what Simon said.
17:53 He's like, I like mental fitness.
17:55 - Yeah.
17:56 - Because that's exactly what it is.
17:57 It's exactly what you're talking about.
17:58 It's something that you have to proactively work on.
18:01 I wanna bring the audience back to
18:04 back when you were selling.
18:05 You've always been a salesman.
18:07 What have you learned?
18:09 What lessons have you learned in selling the things
18:12 that you've sold in your career?
18:14 - Lessons around sales are,
18:18 sales is not about being pushy.
18:21 It's not about, you know, bugging the hell out of somebody
18:24 or just asking them to buy.
18:25 I mean, the first company I worked for on the door to door
18:28 is pest control and they're like,
18:29 if you head nod, then they'll nod some consciously.
18:32 And it's like, no, that's a bunch of bullshit.
18:34 You ask questions, you discover concerns,
18:38 then you dive deeper to see if those are the real concerns.
18:40 And then you try to solve those.
18:43 And if you do have the option to solve those,
18:46 then they're going to ask you what the next step is.
18:48 You don't even need to freaking ask them
18:49 what they wanna do next.
18:51 They're gonna ask you, okay, what is the next step?
18:54 But it's really about connecting with someone
18:56 and finding their concerns
18:58 and then truly trying to solve those.
19:00 I think that's the difference between, you know,
19:02 a sales job and being a professional salesperson
19:05 is really diving in and understanding and solving those.
19:08 So being a salesperson and owning a cookie franchise,
19:13 I kind of built it backwards.
19:17 I didn't have a franchise and then like,
19:19 hey, how am I gonna go sell this?
19:20 I bought a single store company
19:22 and then I went and tried to franchise it.
19:24 Before I franchised it, I just went and talked to everybody.
19:27 I said, hey, this is what my idea would be.
19:29 Sean, if I did something like this,
19:31 would you be interested?
19:32 And you said, and you would say,
19:33 yeah, that sounds pretty good, but you know what?
19:34 The labor's just too high.
19:36 I don't wanna hire that many teenagers.
19:38 Oh, shoot, how am I gonna solve that?
19:40 Well, what if I buy this machine?
19:41 And then I'm gonna go work and solve that issue.
19:43 And then I'm going to then come back to you
19:45 and another 10 people, okay, Sean, I solved that issue.
19:48 Would you be interested in purchasing it
19:49 if it was now set up like this?
19:51 Well, you know what it would be, but those rotations
19:53 or the box or the packet, whatever it is,
19:55 well, I'm gonna go fix that.
19:57 And then I'm gonna come back to you
19:58 and present the best product possible.
20:00 So I built the product according to what I saw
20:03 as what the market wanted,
20:07 which is a very, very simple food franchise.
20:11 I mean, it doesn't have to be a food franchise,
20:12 but just a simplistic franchise with one or two employees,
20:16 low overhead, low cost of goods,
20:18 almost no perishable items in the store,
20:21 like nothing goes bad.
20:22 So it was really just going to the market
20:25 and then creating what I saw the need was.
20:28 - Why cookies?
20:29 - Just 'cause they're good.
20:31 I'm not a cookie guy.
20:32 I mean, I love cookies, but like I don't make cookies.
20:35 I don't eat a lot of cookies.
20:37 I just saw it as it's a hot market right now.
20:42 And I think I have the best model than anybody hands down.
20:45 And with the best model comes the best sales,
20:47 comes the best revenue.
20:49 And what can I do with that revenue?
20:50 I think I can make a difference.
20:52 We have Life is Sweet Foundation, which is our nonprofit.
20:56 And we will open up one mindfulness room
21:00 per franchise we open.
21:02 Mindfulness room, you're going into a K through 12 school
21:05 and converting an old classroom into a spot
21:07 where kids can learn about emotions.
21:10 So they're coming into these rooms,
21:11 they're identifying how they're feeling,
21:13 which we're not taught that as kids.
21:14 So what the hell are emotions?
21:16 How are we feeling?
21:16 Then you choose an activity for 10 minutes,
21:19 guided meditation, breathing exercises,
21:21 gratitude cards, whatever.
21:23 And then as you're leaving, you're also determining
21:27 or identifying your emotion again.
21:29 So it's teaching kids what emotions are,
21:32 how to identify them,
21:32 and then what coping mechanisms are out there to help them.
21:36 Like these kids are gonna get bullied when they leave.
21:38 So it's not about protecting them from being bullied,
21:41 which would be a great goal,
21:42 but it's you're gonna get kicked in the teeth
21:45 for the rest of your life.
21:46 What do you do to cope with it?
21:48 And you can change your nervous system
21:50 in a few minutes with different breath work.
21:53 There's actual science-based tools that we can use.
21:57 We just need to bring those to the kids.
21:59 So I chose cookies because it was scalable.
22:01 And I thought that I can do a thousand stores
22:04 and a thousand wellness centers within five years
22:06 and educate millions of kids.
22:07 That's why I chose cookies.
22:09 - What are the Utah cookie wars?
22:11 Why is there such a problem with cookies in Utah?
22:13 - There's not a problem with cookies.
22:16 There's a problem with a dumb ass company named Crumble.
22:19 (laughing)
22:21 It's, this is my opinion and I'm always right.
22:25 I'm just joking.
22:26 (laughing)
22:28 Crumble-
22:29 - Is that what your lawyers told you to say?
22:30 (laughing)
22:31 - Crumble came up with a cookie that was bigger
22:35 than the average cookie.
22:37 And that's the only innovation that they really had.
22:41 So they see other companies,
22:43 and it was funny 'cause they're not even the first one
22:44 to do the large cookie, not even in Utah.
22:47 Anyways, they have a lot of money.
22:49 They're a multi-billion dollar organization.
22:51 They're the only nation, national gourmet cookie company
22:55 right now that's actually doing something.
22:56 They saw a bunch of other companies starting up
23:00 with a similar idea and it's like, okay, well,
23:03 let's sue them because I can sue you, Sean,
23:06 based on literally nothing.
23:08 I can say, look, Sean, you said dirty dough was bad
23:13 and I'm gonna sue you for defamation.
23:14 And for you just to defend yourself and say,
23:16 no, that's bullshit, that could cost you six figures.
23:19 - Yep. - You know?
23:20 So the Cookie Wars legitimately had side-by-side
23:23 cookie pitchers of their products versus ours.
23:26 And their complaint is, look, this is too confusing.
23:29 Cookie with sprinkles, cookie with cinnamon on it,
23:32 vanilla ice cream.
23:34 Like they legitimately put our vanilla ice cream
23:37 next to their vanilla ice cream.
23:39 And then the funniest part about all of it is
23:42 they copied us on five of the six examples
23:47 that they used as an example.
23:49 Anybody with a cell phone can go and look on social media.
23:53 Every time a product's released by Dirty Dough or Crumble,
23:55 it's released on social media.
23:57 So it's all timestamped, right?
23:59 - Yeah.
24:00 - They actually copied us on five of the six examples
24:02 they copied us.
24:03 I mean, how sloppy can a lawsuit get, right?
24:07 They just threw mud at the wall, nothing stuck.
24:10 And I mean, for us, it really boosted us.
24:13 It gave us national attention.
24:15 We paid, you said, "Cookie's so good, you left San Diego."
24:18 We actually had a billboard that said,
24:19 "Cookie's so good, we're being sued."
24:21 And we threw it on the highway.
24:23 And we had other billboards like,
24:24 "Our cookies don't crumble with competition."
24:26 We pay professional actors to make phone a crumble.
24:29 And we got national attention over it.
24:31 And we sold hundreds of-
24:32 - Bring me into the story.
24:34 I mean, it takes courage as a leader
24:38 to tell your legal team that you're gonna go
24:41 onto social media and let people know the truth.
24:44 Because I'm sure there were plenty of people that said,
24:46 "Bennett, please don't do that.
24:48 This could be used against us."
24:51 - Oh yeah.
24:51 - Why did you do it?
24:55 - That's just, I mean, that's who I am.
24:57 Going back to core values, it's optimism.
25:01 One of them is optimism.
25:02 Don't expect life to be perfect.
25:05 I don't expect life to be perfect.
25:05 And it's a very good reminder of every time you're like,
25:07 "Shit, entrepreneurship is hard.
25:10 Like what, payroll again?
25:12 What?
25:13 This sucks."
25:13 But it's like, "Wait, I wasn't expecting a good ride."
25:17 This is the thrill of it.
25:18 This is the fun.
25:19 So how do you take a situation like a lawsuit
25:24 from a billion dollar organization and have fun with it?
25:27 What's the optimism and the lightheartedness of,
25:31 you know, it's like, let's make fun of it,
25:33 not directly attack and crumble.
25:34 I mean, now I kind of do because it's gone.
25:36 (laughing)
25:38 Before I wasn't.
25:39 - 'Cause what?
25:40 - 'Cause it's been, it's like a freaking year.
25:41 I'm like, "All right, you guys just F off."
25:43 These dudes have my cell phone.
25:45 They know me.
25:46 We live in the same freaking city.
25:48 - Yeah.
25:49 - They didn't send a cease and desist letter.
25:50 It's like, it's so apparent that they didn't.
25:52 Trademark disputes are like,
25:53 "Hey, Sean, I feel like, you know,
25:55 "your logo is too close to my logo
25:57 "and people are gonna cause confusion.
25:58 "Let's work it out."
26:00 Here's a cease and desist letter.
26:02 That's what everybody does.
26:03 Crumble didn't do that.
26:04 They just filed a lawsuit.
26:05 I was like, "These guys are assholes, whatever."
26:07 Or they're just taking bad advice from their attorney.
26:10 I mean, they legitimately turned us
26:11 into their number one competitor.
26:13 We have sold more stores than anybody else.
26:16 And here in the next two months we'll be, you know,
26:18 second in stores open as well.
26:20 So that was kind of the, they sued us.
26:24 The initial plan was not to do anything.
26:27 And we didn't do anything for like 45 days.
26:29 And then a local news station picked it up
26:32 and they posted about it.
26:33 So I picked it.
26:34 I was like, "Okay, well, if it's out there,
26:36 "I have to be the one to control the narrative."
26:38 And I was 100% confident in controlling the narrative.
26:42 And I mean, CNBC interviewed us in "Good Morning America"
26:46 and "Wall Street Journal."
26:46 And guess who everybody else wanted?
26:48 I mean, they all wanted to interview Crumble, right?
26:51 And guess how many interviews Crumble's accepted?
26:53 None.
26:54 'Cause what the hell are you gonna say
26:55 on national television when somebody's like,
26:57 "Do you really think you can sue somebody
26:59 "because they use whimsical theme designs?"
27:03 Like, what are they gonna answer to that?
27:05 So I knew immediately that everybody's gonna come to me
27:08 and I have, like, I can paint the picture
27:12 of what happened and Crumble can't.
27:13 Crumble's not gonna respond
27:15 because they know they're in the wrong.
27:16 And since they've sued us,
27:18 they've literally not accepted one interview.
27:21 So it's been super beneficial for us.
27:24 - So it's one thing on the media side
27:27 when you have national outlets reaching out to you.
27:30 It's another thing when you bring in a creative team
27:33 to create content around the problem
27:37 and then put that on Instagram and put it on TikTok
27:40 and put it on YouTube, which is all,
27:43 I mean, when I was doing research for this episode,
27:46 I was blown away at how well the production value is,
27:50 the storyline, all of it,
27:52 how, bring us into the creative process
27:54 of the cookie wars, the cookie gate content.
27:59 - Yeah, so a guy calls me up on LinkedIn.
28:02 It's all on LinkedIn
28:03 'cause I'm posting everything on LinkedIn.
28:04 I mean, I still get people, like just this week,
28:06 somebody interviewed for a job or something,
28:09 he had you hear about us and it was,
28:10 oh, I follow Bennett on LinkedIn, you know?
28:13 So LinkedIn has been a very, very powerful tool,
28:15 which I didn't even have,
28:16 I didn't even have a LinkedIn account a year ago.
28:18 - Really? - And now I've had
28:19 several million impressions and comments,
28:22 you know, and it's really blown me away.
28:24 - Why did you start your LinkedIn account?
28:26 - A mastermind that I was a part of
28:28 says you need a personal brand
28:29 and I thought that was stupid.
28:30 - Oh, wait, I'm sorry, can you repeat that?
28:33 - Is that? (laughs)
28:34 - I need to hear that again.
28:35 For those that are driving and listening to this,
28:38 what did the mastermind tell you?
28:40 - You have to have a personal brand.
28:41 And I always, I'm--
28:42 - And why, why did they say you need a personal brand?
28:46 Wait, what did you, how many numbers,
28:47 what were the numbers, the LinkedIn numbers?
28:49 Millions of impressions?
28:50 - I've had over 3 million impressions
28:51 my first 12 months of getting on it.
28:53 And we've sold, I mean, those 300 franchises,
28:56 320 something that we're at,
28:57 we haven't used a broker, we haven't paid for an ad,
29:01 it's all just been my LinkedIn and my social media.
29:03 - It's all been content, it's all been content.
29:05 All storytelling.
29:07 - I was scared to get on social media before
29:10 because I don't want, I don't want haters.
29:13 I don't want people posting on my shit
29:14 and like, oh, you're stupid, you can't make,
29:16 I was just, I was scared of that.
29:18 A business coach said,
29:20 anyways, just told me to F and grow up,
29:24 swear at me a little bit.
29:25 - Who was the business coach?
29:27 - The mastermind was called Apex.
29:29 - Okay. - It's out of Dallas.
29:30 And the business coach, man, what the hell is his name?
29:34 I was only with him for like three or four months,
29:37 freaking loved the dude.
29:38 - That's brilliant advice.
29:41 - I mean, it was just like, well, this was me.
29:42 I'm like, I don't want to post.
29:44 I would post like two or three times a year
29:46 for kids' birthdays.
29:46 And it's like, well, do I be smart with this?
29:49 Do I be witty?
29:49 Is it funny?
29:50 Do I be sincere?
29:51 What are people gonna think?
29:53 And I just overthought it and it was just too much.
29:55 And I'm just, and he's just like, who the fuck cares?
29:58 Just like, okay, let's do it.
30:00 Let's freaking post a day, one a day.
30:02 And I personally am not on social media ever,
30:04 but right now I do two posts a day.
30:06 It's all automated, somebody else doing it all for me.
30:09 And that has been such a big thing for me
30:13 to have a personal brand and everybody's,
30:17 the intent isn't just to self-franchise.
30:19 It really is to, I think I have some good ideas.
30:21 I think I have some bad ideas, but get it out there.
30:24 Some people resonated with it
30:25 and they'll contact me to speak at something, right?
30:28 Or they'll want to buy a franchise or they want to invest
30:31 or they want to connect me with somebody else
30:33 or they want to donate to the nonprofit.
30:34 They want me to donate to their nonprofit.
30:36 I'm open for all of that.
30:38 So just getting out there and like, this is who I am,
30:41 love it or hate it, it doesn't matter,
30:43 has been super, super big.
30:45 So that, yeah, that personal branding,
30:47 getting out there has been awesome.
30:49 As far as like the lawsuit goes,
30:50 so James reaches out and he pitches me this idea
30:53 and he's like, hey, what if we've hired
30:55 a George Bush impersonator?
30:57 And he's talking about like, you know,
30:59 and he like gives me his whole spill
31:01 about cookies and crumbling and the free market
31:03 and all of that.
31:04 And we turned down that idea
31:05 'cause we didn't want to use anything politically
31:07 'cause it's like, well, you know, maybe.
31:09 - It's all, you're already in hot water.
31:12 - Yeah, so we're like,
31:13 well, if it's a George Bush impersonator,
31:15 maybe people on the right are mad
31:17 that we're using impersonator
31:18 and people on the left are mad that we're using George Bush.
31:21 So we trashed that idea
31:22 and then we came up with some different ideas.
31:24 And I was just very specific on, look,
31:26 this is a funny video, but it's educational.
31:30 There's not one thing in any of the six or seven videos
31:33 that we released, not one thing that is mentioned there
31:36 that's not actually in the lawsuit.
31:38 So you watch it and you don't know about the lawsuit.
31:41 You're like, there's no way they said
31:43 that you can't use a rectangular box.
31:45 You know, there's no way they said you can't use designs
31:48 or sprinkles on a cookie, but it is.
31:51 So I went back and forth with the attorneys a decent amount.
31:53 They're great to work with.
31:55 They're like, no, you can't address the issues
31:57 of the lawsuit.
31:57 And I'm like, what do you mean?
31:58 That's the only reason I'm doing this.
31:59 I'm not only going to not, I'm going to address them
32:02 head on, that's the whole point of this.
32:04 So I did go back and forth and ultimately
32:06 I made my decision.
32:06 It was, look, is-
32:08 - So wait, what did the attorneys tell you?
32:10 What was the advice?
32:11 Don't do it?
32:11 - No, no, no, no, don't, you can't address
32:14 the sticky topics.
32:16 Like they're suing you over a box
32:18 and you're going to make fun of them for it.
32:19 And I'm like, exactly.
32:20 And they're like, no, no, no,
32:21 you can make fun of them for other things.
32:22 I'm like, no, no, no, it has to be-
32:23 - It has to be the box.
32:25 - It has to be what's in the lawsuit.
32:27 And I, so I was like, no, this is what we're doing.
32:29 So it was really an educational piece
32:32 while it was funny, you know, using humor in it.
32:34 But we went back and forth a lot.
32:37 And I'm just like, look,
32:38 what's the worst that's going to happen?
32:39 Is this illegal for me to say?
32:41 And they're like, no, as long as it's true.
32:43 And I was like, well, it's true.
32:45 What's the downside?
32:46 Well, Crumble's not, you know,
32:47 maybe they're not going to like it.
32:48 I was like, they already hate me.
32:49 Did you see my billboards?
32:50 Like, what are they going to do?
32:51 Like, well, I was going, you know,
32:54 we hated this guy, so we sued him.
32:56 And then he threw up billboards
32:57 and so we sued him harder.
32:59 And then now he's doing, like,
33:00 you can only sue somebody so hard.
33:02 I think I'm a 10 out of 10 as far as how much they hate.
33:05 So it's like, what do I have to lose at this point?
33:08 Let's make fun of them.
33:09 - It's absolutely amazing.
33:12 I love it.
33:13 Can you talk to me about the family side of content?
33:17 Because there's a personal brand
33:20 and then there's a business brand,
33:22 but then there's the human that actually lives
33:25 in both world, the business world and the personal world.
33:29 - Yeah, so I mix in some personal videos as well,
33:32 because, I mean, that's who I am.
33:34 I'm very proud of that I'm a dad, that I'm a husband.
33:38 So two or three of the posts will be personal videos
33:41 of me and my kids and kind of the logistics on the back.
33:44 And 'cause I said, I'm not the one posting them.
33:46 I use WeTransfer.
33:47 And an assistant, a social media person
33:50 hits me up once a month and say,
33:52 hey, upload some videos.
33:53 I go back in my phone and my wife's phone,
33:55 just upload every video that I've taken of my kids.
33:58 - That's awesome. - And then they piece
33:59 it together and post it however they see fit.
34:01 But I do feel like it is important to,
34:04 I mean, so much of what makes me, me is my family.
34:08 - Yeah. - And what drives
34:09 my business decisions is my family.
34:10 So I do feel like I need to show that.
34:12 Other people don't, and that's totally fine.
34:13 I mean, I don't, I just felt like I need to share mine.
34:16 - As you continue to sell franchises,
34:22 you told me that 1,000 was your lucky number.
34:25 Is that an arbitrary number?
34:27 - Yeah, it's a round number.
34:28 - It's a round number. (laughs)
34:30 - And I'm gonna hit it. - It's far enough
34:32 into the future?
34:33 - We're gonna hit 1,000 stores open
34:35 with 1,000 wellness centers in five years.
34:38 I mean, this year alone, which will be-
34:39 - How many wellness centers do you have now?
34:41 - Zero, we're behind. - Zero, okay.
34:44 - Well, we haven't even had a store
34:44 that's been open for a year.
34:46 And it's usually a year behind.
34:48 So we have some in the works,
34:49 but you're dealing with the freaking government and schools.
34:53 So even if they say yes, and even if you give them money,
34:56 it doesn't open for at least a year.
34:57 So our wellness centers will always trail by about a year.
35:02 By the end of this year, we'll have 100 franchises open.
35:07 And that was one year doing it.
35:09 And the next, anyways, I think we'll hit it.
35:13 We'll see, but I think we'll do it.
35:15 - And what's the goal with the media side of your business?
35:20 - With the, say that again?
35:21 - The media side of your business.
35:24 - What do you mean by the media side?
35:26 - You're deeper than dough, that's your media company.
35:28 - Oh, that's my media company, my podcast.
35:30 - You didn't know you had a media company?
35:32 - No, thank you.
35:34 - This is breaking news.
35:36 - Thank you for letting me know.
35:36 - Congratulations, you have another company
35:39 you didn't know.
35:40 - The primary goal, and it's so funny,
35:41 'cause I had a producer and he's like,
35:43 "What are your goals?"
35:44 I was like, "Primary goal, this is a passion project.
35:46 "I like talking to people.
35:47 "I like interviewing people, I like talking.
35:50 "No, you can't have it because you're not gonna make money
35:52 "and you're paying me."
35:53 I was like, "Dude, I'm the customer.
35:55 "You're not gonna tell me what my purpose is."
35:58 I got rid of that producer 'cause he didn't listen to me.
36:00 Anyways, it really is, primary is a passion project.
36:05 I like getting to know people and I truly,
36:08 I mean, one of the questions is,
36:10 that I ask pretty much everybody is,
36:11 "What has been your biggest struggle with mental health?"
36:15 And then they tell me, and then I say,
36:16 "What do you do to be proactive with your mental health?"
36:19 And then they tell me, and then I say,
36:20 "How do you help other people find joy and fulfillment?"
36:22 And then they tell me, and I'm like,
36:24 "Well, I get to now use that information in my own life."
36:27 And that's way more valuable than, you know.
36:29 But apart from that, it is a lead source
36:32 for franchise sales, if people resonate it.
36:35 And if it's not, hopefully it's just helping other people.
36:39 Just how it helps me by getting tools
36:41 and tricks from other people.
36:43 And I try to ask actionable items.
36:46 So it's not just like, "Oh, well, think positive thoughts."
36:48 It's not like, "No, I go to the gym
36:50 "and I do this meditation on this app for 10 minutes a day."
36:54 You know, that's what I try to get out of the audience
36:55 and, or my guests.
36:57 So the audience can also have, you know,
37:00 applicable and actionable steps
37:04 in improving their own lives.
37:06 - So part of this show is,
37:09 our thesis is smartphone storytelling.
37:11 That anyone, you don't need to be an entrepreneur,
37:15 but anyone, and you can be in the hospitality business.
37:17 Everyone's a creator because of the internet,
37:19 because of the smartphone, what you have in your pocket.
37:22 We're all creators.
37:23 And this is a new segment that we're gonna try out.
37:26 You're gonna be the first guest to try out this segment.
37:29 And this is our smartphone storytelling segment.
37:31 So I need you to give me your quick impressions
37:34 to this or that question, which is,
37:37 are you an iPhone or an Android?
37:39 - iPhone.
37:40 - Are you, do you have the latest version of the iPhone
37:42 or do you- - Yes.
37:44 - Do you- - 14 Pro Max.
37:46 - 14 Pro- - And I still get mad at it.
37:48 Yeah, I don't know.
37:49 - Are you a text or an email guy?
37:51 - Text, 100%.
37:53 - Slack, yes or no?
37:54 - No.
37:57 - Zoom or Google Hangouts?
37:59 - Google.
37:59 - Apple Podcasts, Apple Music or Spotify?
38:04 - Google.
38:06 - Google.
38:07 - Let me give you the tip though.
38:08 It's because I watch YouTube and if you pay for the paid,
38:13 I'm not gonna watch a freaking ad.
38:14 So I'm gonna pay the 10 bucks a month,
38:16 might as well get the music as well.
38:17 - Okay, there you go.
38:18 See, now we're learning something here.
38:20 Are you too old, you're too young for Napster
38:25 to have an MP3. - I remember Napster.
38:27 No, I had an MP3.
38:28 That was probably, that's elementary school for me.
38:31 I remember my- - That's elementary school.
38:32 Way to date me.
38:33 I was in college. - Yeah, man.
38:34 - And it came out.
38:36 - I was on Napster and LimeWire.
38:39 That was the other one that came out before-
38:40 - LimeWire, there you go.
38:41 Yeah.
38:42 TikTok.
38:44 - I never get on, but I have a TikTok account
38:47 and it gets posted on daily.
38:49 - Pinterest.
38:50 - Never been on.
38:51 - Nextdoor.
38:52 - What is Nextdoor?
38:55 I've heard of it.
38:55 What is it?
38:56 - Yelp.
38:58 - Yelp, I don't like Yelp.
39:00 - Twitter.
39:02 - Never been on, but I do have an account.
39:04 - Instagram.
39:06 - Yes.
39:07 - Yes.
39:08 - I like Instagram.
39:09 - You passed the test.
39:11 That is the smartphone storytelling
39:14 where we get to learn a little bit more
39:16 about your individual, our guests' actual usage
39:20 of their smartphone.
39:22 Every single week on Wednesday and Friday
39:23 on the Social Audio App Clubhouse,
39:26 we have digital hospitality leaders
39:28 from all over the globe.
39:29 You, the listener, please come on stage.
39:32 Tell us about your restaurant.
39:33 Tell us about what you're building.
39:35 If you're a sales professional, marketing professional.
39:37 We've got an incredible community.
39:39 The rising tide lifts all ships.
39:41 This week, we wanna give a social shout out
39:44 to @jimsroastbeef, @Jim.
39:47 We appreciate you, man.
39:48 Thanks for listening.
39:49 Thanks for joining Clubhouse.
39:51 Bennett, who in your network at Dirty Dough
39:57 do you wanna give a shout out to?
39:59 This is entrepreneur.
40:00 It's a big platform.
40:02 I know you got a big team.
40:03 I don't want the team answer.
40:04 I want one person, one shout out.
40:06 - Jill Sommerhays.
40:08 I didn't have to think about that.
40:09 She's our CEO.
40:10 This is her 40th year as a CEO
40:12 of a franchise or food brand.
40:14 And she kicks ass.
40:16 She does everything.
40:17 And I just do podcasts.
40:18 And it's a great, great relationship
40:21 because she is so much better than I am
40:23 at running a company.
40:24 - And my final question is,
40:26 what do you think of Zach Oates, the founder of Ovation?
40:29 - Zach, no, I'm just joking.
40:31 I freaking love Zach.
40:32 I met him, somebody connected me with him
40:35 or he reached out on LinkedIn for me to be on his podcast.
40:37 I was like, Zach, we've met before.
40:39 And he's like, no, we haven't.
40:39 I was like, dude.
40:40 I met him when he was dating my friend's older sister
40:44 seven years ago.
40:45 And he met in person.
40:46 - He dated like a thousand people.
40:47 - Yeah, yeah, that was one of the thousand.
40:48 - He wrote a book.
40:49 He wrote a book about the thousand people.
40:51 - But also one of his cousins I played football with
40:54 and I was good friends with, Garrett Bowles,
40:55 who's a NFL Denver Broncos dude right now.
40:59 So I think I met him when I was really young.
41:02 And then again, maybe seven years ago,
41:04 but no, he's a great guy.
41:05 He's so goofy.
41:06 He's so good.
41:07 - Does Dirty Doe use Ovation?
41:09 Are you Ovation customers?
41:10 - Yes.
41:11 - Okay, that's good.
41:11 - We are, and Toast.
41:12 - And Toast customers?
41:13 Oh, look at that.
41:14 See, see Toast?
41:16 We didn't even, I didn't even know.
41:17 I had no idea.
41:18 - We just switched because of this podcast.
41:20 - You, I will let the Toast team know that.
41:25 Well, if you ever have any needs with Toast,
41:27 please let me know.
41:28 I sit on the customer advisory board.
41:29 I'm kind of loud, Toast advocate.
41:31 That is awesome.
41:34 If you guys want to get in touch with me,
41:35 it's @SeanPWalchef, S-H-A-W-N-P-W-A-L-C-H-E-F.
41:40 And that's on all the social platforms.
41:43 You can give us a follow @calibbqmedia on Instagram.
41:47 You can find clips of the show.
41:49 Thank you for subscribing.
41:50 Bennett, where can people find you?
41:53 You personally and the brand connect with you.
41:56 - Yeah, Bennettmaxwell.com is my website, B-E-N-N-E-T-T.
42:00 And then there's links to all the socials.
42:04 I post on all socials daily,
42:06 or trying to get out content or podcast clips or whatever.
42:10 And then dirtydough.com is to check out the company.
42:14 I think we have the best-
42:15 - What if people want to get into the franchise business?
42:18 - Yeah, dirtydough.com.
42:19 You can apply there.
42:21 - Put links in the show notes.
42:22 - Yeah, you can kind of watch a podcast
42:24 that gives a big overview of what we're doing,
42:27 who we are, why getting into a Dirty Dough franchise,
42:29 why we think we're the bees knees, and why we're-
42:33 - Love it.
42:33 Well, keep it up, keep raising the bar, Bennett.
42:36 I truly appreciate it, man.
42:37 Thank you guys for listening.
42:39 We appreciate you, and we will catch you all next week.
42:41 Thank you for listening to "Restaurant Influencers."
42:44 The best way that you can help us with the show
42:46 is to subscribe and write a review.
42:49 We love the opportunity to connect with you,
42:52 no matter where you are on the globe,
42:53 no matter what restaurant you are running.
42:56 Please send us a DM on social @SeanPWalcheff.
43:00 If you are interested in toast,
43:02 you wanna improve your digital hospitality,
43:05 please send me a DM.
43:06 I will get you in touch with a local toast representative.
43:10 We appreciate you listening to the show.
43:11 The best way that you can help the show
43:13 is share it with a friend,
43:14 and we will catch you all next week,
43:16 or we will see you on one of the digital playgrounds
43:19 that we call social media.