Bruins 4C Candidates + Cap Casualties w/ Evan Marinofsky | Pucks w/ Haggs

Name: Bruins 4C Candidates + Cap Casualties w/ Evan Marinofsky | Pucks w/ Haggs
Uploaded: 2023-07-24T18:06:44+00:00
Duration: 48 min 7 s
Channel: CLNS Media Sports Network

CLNS Media Sports Network

last year

Welcome to another episode of Pucks with Haggs, where Joe Haggerty is joined by Evan Marinofsky of the New England Hockey Journal dive deep into the world of the Boston Bruins. This episode unpacks the impact of Tomas Nosek's departure and explores who might fill the 4th line Center role. We also discuss the upcoming arbitration hearings for Trent Frederic and Jeremy Swayman. The conversation then pivots to the potential comeback of Patrice Bergeron and the ensuing cap considerations. Lastly, we discuss Jake DeBrusk's future and whether Mason Lohrei will see time in the NHL this season.

⏱️ EPISODE TIMELINE ⏱️
0:00 Evan Marinofsky joins Haggs!
8:50 Bruins news ???
9:35 Tomas Nosek gone; Who will replace him as 4th line C?
18:25 It's now or never for Marc McLaughlin
22:00 Fourth-Line Center Candidates
23:38 Upcoming contracts for Trent Frederic and Jeremy Swayman
27:50 What happens if Patrice Bergeron comes back?
30:48 If Bergy comes back the Bruins will have to clear cap space
32:00 Cap casualties
34:10 Will they trade DeBrusk?
37:00 Will Mason Lohrei play this year? Adding size on defense

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Transcript

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00:00 with Ags is brought to you by FanDuel, the exclusive wagering partner of the CLN Action Media Network.

00:04 Welcome to another episode of the Pucks with Hags podcast. I believe this is episode number 19.

00:11 We're getting close to that big 20 mark. That'll be a balloons and cake kind of episode. Can't wait

00:16 for that. We've got New England Hockey Journal and Bruins beat host Evan Maranofsky here with us.

00:22 But before we get to Evan, I just want to throw in a quick shout out to our sponsors,

00:27 FanDuel Sportsbook, who've been with us since the beginning and we love them. Very popular with

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00:48 if you're on the go and you've got a busy summer. So thanks again, Factor Meals. Now that we've got

00:52 the sponsors love taken care of Evan, how's it going? What's what's hot with you as far as the

00:57 Bruins go right now, where you're at in your Bruins state of mind. Oh, geez. And well, we're in that,

01:03 like, first of all, thanks for having me. It's fun to do what it's like a crossover episode,

01:06 you know, like it is like growing up, like a Nickelodeon, like when your two favorite shows

01:10 would come together and do like one show that's this. That's right. It's been good. I mean,

01:15 the Bruins, it's, you know, like it was kind of tough to get through those episodes in the playoffs

01:20 because it was like there was nothing after, you know, once they were done and eliminated,

01:24 we'd kind of done their eulogy. It was sort of like what you know, what's we're waiting for the

01:29 Stanley Cup final to end. And then, you know, you have free agency and you have, you know,

01:35 the draft and it's not a lot of what the Bruins in the draft. So it's really just free agency.

01:39 But we're kind of in that second sort of I think people are starting to look ahead to next year in

01:44 the sense of like, what is this team going to be? Summer's been outside of Bruins. Summer's

01:50 been great though. I mean, the weather would be nice if the weather got a little bit better in

01:53 the Boston area. Seems to always be rainy on the weekends, which is fun, but yeah, it's been good.

01:59 How's your summer been, Hags? It's been busy, but it's been good. I'm riding, driving the kids to a

02:05 lot of summer camps. Finn's at Dexter hockey camp this week. He's nice on his way home right now.

02:11 And now we're actually going to Lake George this weekend for his he's got a lacrosse tournament

02:15 with the Boston free train lacrosse team. So as soon as I am done with this podcast,

02:20 we were getting in the car and driving to Lake George. So it's right to Lake George. Yeah. It's

02:24 been and, but we did go, Finn came with me to the NHL drafts. He was there for the first round

02:31 and the whole family came. So we hung out and, you know, seven, eight days in Nashville and

02:35 then Tennessee, and then I went to Dollywood and North Carolina too. So it was actually really fun

02:42 in smoky mountains. We'd never seen any of that. I'd never been there really before. So it was cool

02:46 to check that out for seven, eight days. So we already knocked the summer vacation out of the

02:50 park already too. So it's cool for him because the draft, I assume he was probably just, you know,

02:55 bright-eyed watching the draft and everything. So that must've been awesome. Well, he was first of

03:00 all, very psyched to see Conor Bedard get drafted in person because he watched the world juniors.

03:05 He knows who Conor Bedard is. So it was really cool for him to see probably the next generational

03:10 player getting drafted by the Blackhawks, but it was also equally cool for him to see Will Smith

03:17 get drafted by the sharks. Number four, because Will Smith played for the junior Eagles. Finn

03:22 has friends, teammates that play for the junior Eagles. Like it's, it's a lot more real to him

03:28 when he sees that. And then he sees Ryan Leonard get picked, picked a few picks later. And he

03:33 played for the Springfield rifles, which is a team that Finn's played a bunch of times and beaten.

03:37 So it's pretty cool for him. I think it feels more real as a hockey player. When you see like

03:42 teams that you play against, or you have friends on the teams that some of their players go on to

03:46 get drafted in the top 10 of the NHL draft. So that, that part is pretty neat to watch. And he

03:51 was into it. Yeah. That's, I think that's the coolest thing, like with, with, with doing an

03:55 hockey journal, like obviously we did a lot on those kids and it's funny. There was a story.

03:59 I went back and looked to see like, is there anything on Conor Bedard that was ever done by

04:03 us? And I think it was 2018 at the, I think it was like the Beantown classic and doing

04:07 with sports center. Conor Bedard was there. It was either 18 or 19 and it was written up

04:12 into a good hockey journal. And it was a little, you know, a couple of sentences, this kid, you

04:15 know, he's young, but he's clearly the best player there. And I mean, it was so fascinating to be

04:19 like, Oh my God, that was, you know, five years before, but yeah. And now with my job, I'm always

04:24 like, you know, maybe like this, this 14 year old kid, he's going to be the next Conor or this,

04:28 this kid's going to be the next Conor Bedard. So it's soon enough. It'll be Finn Haggerty in the,

04:33 in the, we'll see. Hopefully as long as he continues to love playing the sport, that's

04:37 like, that's what I'm most excited about. Like, and to be honest with you, like he's, he's like,

04:41 comes home from the scrimmages and he's talking about like, you know, yeah, I scored goals. I did

04:45 whatever, like he gets most excited about like breaking up kids in the final seconds of the game.

04:50 When somebody pulled a goalie and like the games on, like he's into it, even in a scrimmage at

04:54 Dexter summer camp in the middle of July. So that part's pretty cool, but you're right. It's as much

05:00 as we like when they're young, say, Oh, they're still going through puberty. They're still years

05:04 away from the draft. Like you want them to be at their best when they're 17, 18 years old,

05:09 you can't see a kid at 13, 14 and say, this is an NHL superstar yet. Cause there's so many changes

05:14 that they have to make. But that being said, Conor Bedard gets a write up in the new England

05:20 hockey journal for that tournament. We see video clips of like Brayden point playing at the brick

05:25 hockey tournament in Edmonton when he was like, you know, Finn's age, same thing with Johnny

05:30 Gaudreau. Like, and like some of those kids are already like standing out at that age and they

05:35 just continue on the upward trend, which is like seriously cool to see as well. And it tells you

05:41 that there's different paths of development. Some kids like stand out and continue to stand out.

05:46 Some kids stand out early in plateau and other kids just keep going up and up and improve. And

05:50 it's, it's, it's cool to see all of those different pathways that kids have. It is.

05:54 I think the pathways elements, the coolest is that everyone has a different path and their kids are

05:58 late bloomers. There are kids who are good throughout. There are kids who are really good

06:02 early and kids catch up, but they're still really good. Like you mentioned that the thing, the brick,

06:06 like, I think I get an email every week from elite prospects and it does like the most clicked

06:10 players that week. And the third most click player last week was from the Montreal Canadians and the

06:15 brick tournament. He's 10. Liam, Liam TEP set a new tournament record at the brick tournament with

06:20 15 goals and 14 assists in eight games. And it's crazy. I mean that kid, you know, like in five or

06:24 six years down the line, we're going to be like, Oh, this kid's big prospect for, you know, the

06:27 2031 draft or something. But it's, it's cool. I love it. I think it's really interesting. And

06:34 yeah, it's, it's, it was cool to Will Smith and Leonard getting drafted. That was,

06:37 that was awesome. Next year will be Cole Iserman. So that'll be, that'll be something to look

06:41 forward to. And then that 2025 is too far away. We'll we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

06:46 The national team development program just cranks out first round picks and draft picks in general.

06:51 It's ridiculous. But I will say if the, the funny thing with the brick to shout out to the two teams

06:56 that were playing at the end of Montreal Canadians, as you mentioned the junior Canadians, they had a

07:01 team in the final and another team from Minnesota was in the final two. So a couple of hockey

07:05 factories had a bunch of stud kids that are nine, 10 years old out there playing in Edmonton in the

07:11 mall for the hockey championship when it was like the best of the best from around North America,

07:16 which is pretty cool to say. You know, it's interesting though, hockey, you see how fast

07:20 hockey is spreading. I was at the select seven teams up in Buffalo a few weeks ago and the best.

07:24 So the new England region, the new England district, which does not include Massachusetts

07:29 won the whole thing, but the most talented team and the team that almost won it was the Pacific.

07:35 The Pacific almost won it. They had some of the best kids in the tournament. They had the best

07:40 kid. I think it was, I think his name was John Connolly. I think he was going to Providence

07:43 commit, but yeah, I mean like it's, it's crazy to see how hockey's growing, but you still have your

07:48 Canada, Minnesota, new England, like those are still, you know, prominent, but it's cool to

07:53 see sort of the other ones Pacific and you know, like the Southwest kind of compete. Cause it's,

07:58 you know, good to see hockey spreading. As much as Gary Bettman gets booed at the Stanley cup

08:03 finals when he hands over the trophy and gets, you know, bad mouths on social media, like

08:08 his dream of growing the game in every reach of the United States has absolutely worked.

08:14 You see it with NHL players coming out of California, Florida, the Southwest, like all

08:18 these different places where they were stubborn about keeping NHL franchise, Dallas too. Like

08:23 that junior stars program is ridiculous. So like his, what his vision of, of growing the game in

08:31 all these non-traditional places, not only is working at the NHL level, as we saw when it was

08:36 four non-traditional teams at the end in the Stanley cup playoffs, the last four teams, but

08:41 also with the kids that watch these teams growing up and are playing hockey in these places, the

08:45 Austin Matthews of the world that are playing in non-traditional markets and go on to be stud

08:50 players. So, you know, all that stuff is super cool to see. First thing I think we want to get

08:55 into is just a little bit of Bruins news. Just the latest things that are happening. As you,

09:00 as you mentioned, Evan, there's kind of tumbleweeds blowing through the Boston Bruins news

09:04 scene right now. Like it's from July 15th to August 15th. That's usually if you're involved

09:09 in the hockey media, the time when you can plan vacations and go away, because it's pretty much

09:14 the dead portion of the off season, because like all the executives, all the coaches, all the

09:18 players, they all go to like their cottages in Canada for like a month and go water skiing and

09:22 golfing and, you know, sitting out in a beach somewhere or a Lake. So they don't have to

09:26 think about the rank because they know it's captain's practices are going to be staring

09:30 them in the face in late August. So the big news for this past few days, week, whatever you want

09:35 to call it was just Thomas Noshik signing a one year, $1 million deal with the New Jersey devils.

09:41 You know, that Don Sweeney had basically said that the ship had already sailed on July 1st

09:46 and that he wasn't coming back. That was obvious when they signed Patrick Brown, when they signed

09:51 Morgan Geeky, you know, both of those guys kind of, you know, bottom six sort of center profiles.

09:57 And then they went out and got Jesper Bokwist afterwards for short money from the New Jersey

10:02 devil signed him in free agency as well. And he's a center winger, very versatile. So, you know,

10:07 they've kind of, and they've got in internal prospects, internal candidates, Johnny Beecher,

10:15 Mark McLaughlin, you know, there's at least a couple of guys that are going to be pushing hard

10:19 in training camp and are kind of at that age now where, and at their development track where they

10:24 should be competing and be in the mix for a fourth line center spot for sure. So there's going to be

10:29 a lot of different candidates involved in that kind of made Noshik the odd man out. And like,

10:34 I get what the Bruins are doing here. They couldn't even, the salary cap situation that they're in,

10:41 they couldn't even afford to spend $1 million on a fourth line center, right? They needed that 225K

10:47 in savings. If Patrick Brown is the guy that they're going to throw in there and that's going

10:53 to benefit them. But I also think that you see with them when it's not somebody they drafted

10:58 and developed that's on their fourth line, they turn them over. They don't resign those guys

11:03 to other contracts. It's like you sign them to a one or a two year deal. Thank you for your service.

11:08 They get the most out of them. And they credit to the Bruins NHL scouting staff. They have a good

11:12 eye for the fourth line guys, like especially the centers. It seems like every time Don Sweeney

11:16 signs one of them to a one or two year deal, they, they perform either at or above expectations. So,

11:22 you know, now it's, it's time for somebody else to come in, but, you know, by the same token,

11:26 they're going to miss a guy like Noshik, I think just face-offs, D-zone presence,

11:32 smarts, like a lot of things that he brings to the table where things that aren't going to wow

11:36 you and things that don't show up in the fancy stats when you bear them out. But like, he's

11:40 a valuable guy to a winning hockey team. Well, I think, you know, they always, you know, the saying,

11:44 you know, you don't know how good you have it until it's, it's gone. And I think he's an

11:48 interesting case of, you know, there were a lot of things that not that they ever took for granted,

11:52 but there were things that he kinda, he did the dirty jobs, you know, a lot of D-zone starts,

11:57 penalty killing, things that you need that are, you know, you'd love to keep away from your top

12:02 six when, when needed. And he kind of took those on. And I think like for New Jersey,

12:06 it's a heck of a pickup. That's a team that, you know, should be making a deep run next year,

12:11 you know, kind of on the cusp. And, you know, I think they could use a legit fourth line center

12:16 who can kill penalties and, and, and shut opposing first lines down. And I think he's,

12:22 he's good for that, but you hit on it well, what they have the internal candidates.

12:26 And I think they want to see, can a guy like McLaughlin step in? Can Johnny Beecher step in

12:30 and be the fourth line center? And there'll be growing pains. I mean, I don't think that fourth

12:34 line will be fully hashed out until, you know, February, maybe March and that's fine. But you're

12:41 right. I mean, I think you have the guys internally, you know, if you bring back no check,

12:45 he's there for the whole season, you're not taking him out in the lineup. You shouldn't be,

12:48 he's a better option than those guys, but you want to allow a guy like Johnny Beecher to grow

12:52 into it. You want to allow a guy like Mark McLaughlin to potentially grow into it. And,

12:56 you know, I just think that they're at that point. And you mentioned the cap savings as well. You

13:01 got to do that. But, you know, again, I think it's an opportunity for a guy like Beecher McLaughlin

13:08 to step in and hopefully kind of take that fourth line center spot. I think Beecher might be a

13:12 little more for that, I think, you know, just with his speed down the middle and his overall game.

13:18 But, you know, again, I was also surprised no check lasted as long as he did on the free agent

13:22 market. Cause that seemed like a guy who, you know, I'm surprised teams didn't identify quicker

13:27 of, okay, this is a guy who would be a valuable member to a contender in the bottom six. And,

13:33 you know, New Jersey picked him out before everybody else. It seems like, and it wasn't

13:36 an expensive deal one year, 1 million. I mean, that's not for a team that's contending. It's

13:41 a guy who is going to be sort of an X factor on your fourth line. So I was surprised to see him

13:46 last as long as he did. And, you know, but New Jersey made sense. New Jersey made sense.

13:51 Yeah, I think so. I mean, he's a guy that can help you if you're a winning hockey team,

13:56 that's going to, you know, that you're going to be in the playoffs and, you know, some of the

13:59 details in his game are going to help you if you're that kind of a team, especially a younger team,

14:03 like New Jersey, where they could use more veteran guys, guys that have had a lot of playoff

14:07 experience like no shick. And, you know, a lot of the things that he brings to the table. You know,

14:13 I think him lasting as long as he did speaks to just the salary cap jeopardy that so many teams

14:19 are in, where they just don't even look at a million dollars, like they look at as a luxury

14:24 for a fourth line player, I think so many teams right now. And this was the way of the world when

14:29 this new CBA came into existence, between the NHL and the NHLPA, you knew that it was going to be,

14:37 it's going to sign it sort of turn into the NBA, where you're paying two or three guys,

14:41 huge money at the top of your salary cap. And then you're trying to backfill with all these guys on

14:47 minimum veteran deals are close to it, you know, for your fourth line roles, for your bottom pairing

14:51 defenseman roles, for your backup goaltender role, all these places where you can, you know,

14:55 clip coupons and save, you're going to do it because you kind of have to, you know, just based

15:00 on the way that it is right now. And there's really not as much of a middle class where you can pay

15:05 like a third line guy, like three or $4 million a year, you can pay like a bottom pairing defenseman,

15:11 that kind of money. And I think no, she just fell into that sort of like veteran problem area where

15:17 teams just don't have the money anymore for items like that. They look at him as kind of a luxury

15:21 item. It is interesting, like the fourth line picture and who's going to come out of it.

15:28 I think Patrick Brown is obviously a much less established NHL player than Thomas Noshik was.

15:33 So I do think if one of the young guys beats him out for the fourth line center position,

15:38 it's not going to be as big a deal if they end up having to send him to Providence and he goes

15:42 down there, both, you know, the contract that he has and, you know, his profile and how much he's

15:48 played in the NHL the last few years, he's been kind of back and forth. It is a one way deal.

15:53 So that does send a little bit of a message that they think Brown is going to be a guy that is

15:57 going to stick, or at least the notion is he's going to stick, or the message they're sending

16:01 to him is they think he's going to win a job and maybe it's the 13th forward job we'll see.

16:05 But I do think, you know, all things being equal, the Bruins would love to have one of their young

16:12 guys step up and take that job. Certainly Beecher is going to get every chance to win a job like

16:17 that because the Bruins want to see a first round pick develop into something useful. You know,

16:22 they invested a lot in that kid and they want to see him become something that's going to help

16:27 them at the NHL level. And to your point, you know, he's got the speed, he's got the size,

16:32 he's got a little nasty to his game. He certainly isn't going to be like a 30 goal score at the NHL

16:37 level. I think that's established. So that's going to be kind of his lot in life and his

16:41 ceiling is maybe be a top, you know, bottom six center, a third or fourth line center

16:46 that is physical, you know, is going to pop in offensively every once in a while,

16:51 but it's going to play the physical, the physical game and the fast game.

16:54 Like I remember him at his first development camp, the long strides and the way he skated,

16:59 it's Eichel-esque the way he skates. He's a super fast, you know, and that should play at the NHL

17:07 level that in his size and his physicality should all play. It's just a matter of, uh, is he going

17:11 to be the detailed part of the game? You know, he's going to have the details. He's going to be

17:15 able to win face-offs. Some things that I saw when I watched him play that weren't quite there yet.

17:20 Is he going to have enough of that stuff at the NHL level to be a fourth line center where all

17:24 that stuff is extremely important? You know, the things that No-Shit was really good at,

17:28 is a guy like Beecher going to be able to do any of that stuff?

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18:21 And you know, McLaughlin's another guy. I thought he should have won an NHL job out of training camp

18:30 last year. I thought... I was shocked he didn't. The way he played, he deserved to win the fourth

18:34 line center job. And I didn't think No-Shit particularly did deserve to win it the way

18:39 camp went. But as we went on, I think we saw what No-Shit brought to the table. And again,

18:44 McLaughlin's kind of a young guy where some of that stuff was developing and wasn't quite there.

18:48 And I think that's why it came down the way it did. But McLaughlin is definitely in sort of a

18:52 now or never kind of part of his run with the Bruins here, where it's his time if he's going

18:58 to be a fourth line center to kind of win that job. Or is he going to continue to be a guy that's

19:03 going to sort of bounce back and forth between Providence and the Bruins? So the fourth line

19:08 situation in general is going to be really interesting. And there's so many sort of new

19:13 bodies among the forward group that it's going to be interesting to see how that whole thing plays

19:17 out. You know, it's funny you mentioned McLaughlin. I hope he sticks somewhere in this lineup because

19:24 I think he's so reliable. I think he's a guy you can plug into that fourth line and you kind of

19:28 know what you're going to get. That's how he's been at every level. It was kind of how he was

19:32 like at BC. You knew what you were going to get. You know he's not going to be a superstar,

19:35 but he's reliable. You know, he can kill penalties. He can, he can, you know,

19:39 eat ice time, do some defensive work. Like I think McLaughlin, I hope he sticks, whether it's on the

19:45 right side or, or, or down the middle, you know, and Beecher again, like Beecher is a guy who

19:50 you almost hope there's some of the Trent Frederick in there. Like, can you stick and,

19:56 you know, do your job, provide a little offensively, you know, there's times where

19:59 Frederick's inconsistent, you know, you'll see him where, you know, the physicality isn't there

20:03 when it should be or, or things like that. But, you know, Beecher has that speed. That's,

20:09 I think, you know, I remember watching it at Michigan, the amount of shorthanded breakaways

20:12 that guy got a game was crazy. And, you know, unfortunately the finishing really isn't there.

20:18 And, you know, but again, if he can kind of, you know, take away passing lanes and kind of be a,

20:24 you know, a valuable member in the defensive zone, whether it be on the PK or five on five,

20:29 like I think he should stick, but you mentioned the Patrick Brown thing being one way. I don't

20:35 know, you know, again, maybe he's a 13th forward, but I don't know how, you know,

20:38 it's not a guarantee that, you know, a guy like Beecher or McLaughlin steps in. Would you ever

20:42 think of Beecher on the wing? I mean, I probably wouldn't. I think there's too, there's a lot of

20:46 speed there, but I mean, I guess if it's a fit, sure. I think he's big enough that he should,

20:50 he's big enough that he should be able to win his share of board battles on the wing.

20:53 And that's really the biggest, the biggest problem that guys centers in particular,

20:59 if you're going to move them to wing that you're concerned about. And I don't think the board

21:02 battle physicality thing is going to be an issue with him at all. And, you know, it can be a way

21:07 to ease some of those guys into the NHL level is to put them on the wing where there's less

21:10 responsibility. And, you know, he's just playing fast all the time and that could be like something

21:16 for him. And it's funny, you know, you mentioned sort of like seeing him get all kinds of breakaways

21:21 because of his speed and, you know, his physicality and it sort of opened him up a lot of great

21:25 offensive chances, even if the hands weren't quite there to finish that was Daniel Pye when he was

21:30 with the Bruins. He was a former first round pick. He was a former first round, but he wasn't

21:35 obviously as big as Beecher, but he was a former first round pick. He was super fast. He was

21:40 tenacious. And those two qualities got him a lot of breakaways and a lot of chances that were great

21:46 offensively. But he couldn't finish a lot of them too. And he ended up having a really productive

21:51 run with the Bruins as their left winger on the on the fourth line. So, you know, I do think there

21:59 could be a possibility of him, you know, being getting looks at the wing as well. And it's going

22:03 to be really interesting to see how that whole thing plays out. But, you know, I'll continue to

22:08 circle back like and it was funny. We were talking about Jeremy Swain and offer sheets, all this

22:13 other stuff like previously in previous weeks and month in the last month or two. And, you know,

22:19 the worry that he might sign somewhere else, sign an offer sheet somewhere, the worry that the

22:22 Bruins are going to trade him like all this stuff. He's a drafted and developed Boston Bruin player

22:28 that looks like he's going to turn into a frontline NHL guy, a quality NHL player, goalie.

22:33 The Bruins are not going to trade that guy. You know, the same thing with Beecher. They want him

22:38 to turn into a productive, good NHL player because it it raises the profile of their scouting and

22:45 their draft and development system. And they need to start producing NHL players that go out and do

22:51 really well and have productive NHL roles on the Bruins or elsewhere. But I think they want to have

22:57 those guys for the Bruins, obviously, to kind of, you know, throw them out there and thump their

23:01 chest a little bit about it, especially with the Bruins draft prospect system and draft and

23:07 development system has been knocked around by like the athletic. And I think it was ranked 28th by

23:11 the NHL network. They did it. I saw that. Yeah. So like they want play, you know, it's in their

23:16 best interest to get Beecher's guy, guys like that online and get them succeeding and thriving. So I

23:23 do think he's going to get a lot of looks. And I do think they're going to try to find the best

23:26 place to put him in to, you know, do something at the NHL level and get some return on that first

23:31 round investment. Moving on beyond the fourth line and just in general, the Bruins have about

23:38 five million dollars in salary cap space right now. They do have Trent Frederick and Jeremy

23:44 Swainman still waiting for contracts. The calculations that I've done, the comparables

23:49 that I've looked at as far as the arbitration hearings that are coming up in the month of

23:53 August and all that stuff, I think they could theoretically get both of those guys signed for

23:59 the money that they have now. I think it's between five and five point five million in cap space.

24:03 I think it's five point four two. Exactly. That's what it is.

24:06 Good job, Evan. You're right on that exact number.

24:09 That's my one note. I have that written right down. I have no other notes. That's the one

24:14 note I did have written down so I can review. So there was a number of comparables for Frederick.

24:22 I think, you know, Swainman's pretty much locked in, I think, around three and a half million.

24:26 I think that's what he's going to end up getting somewhere in there based on the numbers I was

24:30 looking at for RFA goaltenders. Frederick, I think, is going to get around two million,

24:35 maybe a little bit less. And it was funny, people were concerned about Tanner Girard and the deal

24:41 he signed a few days ago or last week with the Tampa Bay Lightning, thinking that that was going

24:46 to raise because I think his was like in the two point five million, two point six million dollar

24:51 range per year for a two year deal. I think people were worried that that was going to raise

24:56 Frederick up and it was going to be a comparable to Frederick and it was going to put his number,

25:00 you know, up in the two point five, two point six million dollar range. But when you break down the

25:05 numbers, Tanner Girard a couple of years ago, Girard, I don't even know how to pronounce his

25:10 name, when he was with the Nashville Predators, he had 24 goals. He had like 40, 45 points,

25:16 something like that. Like, yeah, wasn't Tanner? Tanner Jeneau was like a big deadline acquisition.

25:22 He was a deadline. Like that was a guy who people thought like, oh, big power forward can be in

25:26 your middle six, potentially like, you know, hiring your lineup and make an impact. Have we ever

25:31 thought that about Trent Frederick ever? I mean, I, you know, like not trying to rip him here,

25:35 but like, you know, he was good last season, but I don't think we've ever looked at him in the same

25:39 light that we've looked at Jeno. No. And 24 goals is 24 goals. Like if you do that in a season,

25:44 you're a legit NHL goal scorer. Like Frederick had a career high of 17. His shooting percentage

25:49 was off the charts this year. Like there's a lot of questions as to whether he's ever going to be

25:53 able to match 17 goals again. But it's still not, you know, getting in the mid twenties. Like that's

25:58 a whole different stratosphere of NHL production and his points per game. Frederick's is about like

26:04 0.27 points per game in his career. Jeno's was up in the 0.38 range, somewhere in there close to

26:12 0.40 points per game. Like he's not a comparable for Trent Frederick. Frederick, Max Comtois,

26:20 with Luke Evans, maybe there was several players I looked at and their numbers, their stats,

26:26 the, where they were in their contract status, as far as being RFAs, like there were a lot of

26:32 parallels between him and those kinds of guys that were in the, Capo Caco was another one that were

26:38 in the like 1.5, 1.6 and Caco, I think had the most 2.1 million a year. And I think he was more

26:44 high end than Frederick. So Frederick, I think is going to come in at like 1.8, 1.9 a year for two

26:49 years. So long story short, I think they're going to have enough cap space to sign both of those

26:54 players. Unless like something goes completely sideways in the arbitration hearings, which I'm

27:01 sure, and no, and I don't even think it's going to get that far. I think they'll figure out

27:06 something. Yeah. You would think, I mean, Don Sweeney's done a good job of avoiding that in

27:10 his career. But I'm just interested to see how it's going to play out. You have any feelings

27:16 one way or the another on either one of those? Yeah. I mean, Swayman, I think you said three,

27:21 five. I think that's right around where I have him at. Like that's, you know, maybe he gets up

27:26 to four, you know, again, Sweeney's usually pretty good at kind of getting his own guys to sign

27:31 solid deals. And I think, you know, if they want to, you know, whatever he uses for his

27:36 negotiation tactics, maybe they work here and he gets it under, but. And Swayman wants to be here

27:41 too. Like, I think I get the feeling like he wants to be one of those guys that like toes the line

27:45 and does what the team needs and all that stuff. Yes. And there's one other thing though, Haggs,

27:49 about the salary cap and those guys, cause you're right. Those guys that the numbers you gave,

27:53 which I agree with, should probably get in under that salary cap. Bruce Bergeron comes back.

27:59 How are you paying him? Well, you're going to have his Berseron. You're going to have to move.

28:04 You're going to have to move somebody if Bergeron comes back. That's the thing. And so that's the

28:08 thing. And I think that's the one area where like, you know, if he does come back, even if you do,

28:14 you did last year with his deal where you have the overages, I still think, you know, maybe you do

28:18 have to move someone out and which is tough. Cause again, like the guy, we'll get into this, like the

28:24 guys that the candidates to get moved out, you know, everyone looks at forward, everybody looks

28:28 at like Grizzlik and I think you, you lose like a legitimate piece there of your back end. Or if

28:33 you want to, you know, get into the forwards, you know, do you, do you, do you decide not to,

28:38 you know, re-sign Jake DeBrusque and move him early or something like that. Right. Like,

28:41 so again, I think it's great for Bergeron to come back. You know, obviously this team needs him,

28:46 you need a number one center. But if that's the case, they're going to have to make a subsequent

28:51 move because they don't have the, they may have the space for Frederick and Swayman. They don't

28:56 for Bergeron for Frederick and Swayman plus Bergeron. So I don't know. I mean, it's, you know,

29:01 you hope that those Frederick and Swayman numbers can come in. I also hope the Frederick deal is not

29:06 one that's regrettable. I think Frederick's a guy that I would rather have him be short-term

29:10 than, than a long-term deal, because I think long-term, you know, he's someone that we're

29:15 still, even though after a good season last year, we're all still kind of like, all right,

29:19 have in Frederick, like, what can he, because again, he was on a very good third line last year.

29:24 And, you know, ultimately this year is probably not going to be on as good or as potent of a third

29:29 line. So, you know, how much do the numbers drop off? Is he more physical more often, you know,

29:34 what is he bringing every night? So, you know, and also can he move to center? You know, he was a guy

29:39 who came up as a center, you know, he's really just been a wing at the NHL level, but like,

29:44 I am curious, you know, can he be an NHL center on the third or fourth line? Like maybe that adds a

29:50 little more if, if, if it's a short-term deal in the next two years, he, he adds that to his game,

29:55 boosts his next contract. So, but yeah, hopefully those numbers come in late, but yeah, the Bergeron

30:00 thing is a, it's an interesting, it always comes back to Patrice Bergeron this off season.

30:04 - Always. And it always will. As long as he's the captain of this team and the face of the

30:09 franchise. And especially now that we've reached the point in his career where he's almost like,

30:14 you know, it's a year to year thing. And it's, it's almost, it's not at the level of the Tom

30:18 Brady sort of when he got to that point where he was going on one year deals and there was kind of

30:23 like pomp and circumstance that went along with you know, him coming back and it, you know,

30:28 the question looming way into the off season, like it does now.

30:31 - We don't have a reality show with Bergeron. We're behind the B, we're behind the B,

30:36 but we don't have a reality show.

30:38 - Thankfully we will never have a reality show with Patrice Bergeron. He's way too classy and

30:41 modest to do something like that. But like, you're absolutely right that the way it is right now,

30:50 they're going to shimmy under the salary cap, I think with everything that they've done.

30:53 If they just sign Frederick and Swayman and that is it. If Patrice Bergeron does come back,

31:00 and I think they've got obviously a contingency plan in place if, and when that does happen,

31:05 because you're going to make room for him. I think you're right. I think they're definitely

31:09 going to have to clear salary cap space, even if it's like a $1.5 million incentive-laden contract,

31:16 that still means you're going to have to move at least one player. And I would think when Bergeron

31:22 looks at, you know, like Anzhi Kopitar going out and still making big money as he's an aging sort

31:27 of Selke trophy, number one center type. Like, I don't know if he's kicking himself at all saying,

31:32 I should be getting a lot more money than I'm getting right now to come back and play.

31:35 But I know obviously he's made tons of money and that's not his number one priority right now.

31:40 But somebody is going to have to move if he comes back. And it's, you talked about the usual

31:46 suspects. Derek Forbort's definitely one of them. I think there's a lot of fans out there that would

31:51 like to see Forbort move because he didn't have the greatest playoff. And let's face it, that

31:55 guy's not the sexiest player in general when it comes to like the casual fan because he blocks

32:01 shots, he kills penalties. He doesn't, you know, he's what you need to win. You need a guy like

32:06 that if you're going to have a good team, if you're going to have a good penalty kill, if you're going

32:09 to have a good defense, but like, he's not the kind of guy that's going to dazzle fans. So they

32:13 think they can just, but then he gets hurt like he did last year, especially in the middle of the

32:18 year. And all of a sudden your penalty kill goes into the crapper for like a month when he's gone

32:22 with a broken finger after he blocked a shadow, by the way. So like, you know, that's definitely a

32:27 guy on the list. Matt Griswick is a guy that I think when they had him out of the lineup in the

32:32 playoffs against the Florida Panthers, they sorely missed his puck moving ability, his ability to

32:37 transition and get the puck out of the D zone quickly and transported up the ice that that was

32:41 definitely missing from the lineup when he wasn't there. So you're going to miss something with him

32:46 as well. And then you mentioned Jake DeBrusque is definitely, I think if they move another forward,

32:52 that's probably a guy that they're going to look long and hard at, at being forced to move. And

32:56 that's going to take away one of your goal scoring threats. A guy that's got tons of speed,

33:01 tons of skill, and has gotten to a point in his career where he shows up more than he doesn't

33:05 during games. You know, he's not as much of a no-show for long periods of time as he was earlier

33:10 in his career when he was younger. And maybe later in his career when he was playing for Bruce

33:14 Cassidy and not quite happy with where he was. But last year, I think you saw a much more consistent,

33:20 better all around player that was finding ways to be a factor, even if he wasn't scoring two goals

33:25 or doing something. And just little things like the winter classic, you know, getting hurt and

33:31 scoring two goals in the third period, he was showing more grit than I think he had in the

33:36 recent past as well. So you're going to miss things if he's gone as well. What's your priority list

33:41 as far as those guys or anybody else you think might get moved if you did have to make space for

33:46 Bergeron? It's tough. Cause like, I think with DeBrusque, I talked about this a little on Bruins

33:51 beat this week at the end. And I was at a game recently with a hockey game out in Foxboro and

33:57 Mark Diver was there. We were kind of going back and forth on this. And also been a guest on this

34:01 show. We only book greatest guests here. Yeah, this is true. He's, he's higher than me. He's

34:05 a better guest than I am. I, you know, Mark is up here. I am down there, but you know, the funny

34:10 thing about DeBrusque is like, let's say the Bruins are 10 games, you know, 10 games under 500 or 10

34:19 points out of the playoff picture around the deadline. Right. And they say, you know what?

34:23 DeBrusque has a year, you know, it's going to be UFA in a year. Like we're not going to resend

34:26 them. Let's deal them right at the trade deadline next year, Jake DeBrusque. If again, I don't think

34:31 the Bruins are going to be in this situation, but if they are, if they were going to trade him,

34:34 he would get you a lot. Like, I think he gets you a sizable return back. If you deal him now,

34:40 you're not getting a lot for him. You know, you're not getting as much as you should.

34:45 And you know, that's a guy like, again, if you're in that position next year, maybe you get a first

34:49 for him or a couple of big prospects and then suddenly, all right, you know, you've kind of

34:53 replenished yourself a teeny bit for that. So that's the guy I wouldn't want to deal now. But

34:58 I guess I, you know, when we talk about like what Forbert brings and what Grizzly brings,

35:03 it's tough because it's not like they do the same thing and we can just pick up, you know,

35:06 Forbert, they do the same thing. Forbert can go or Grizzly can go. They do such different things.

35:10 You need Grizzly, like you said, as you said, in that series against Florida, when they couldn't

35:14 move the puck out of their own zone, like that's a guy who helps you there. Right. And you look at

35:18 a guy like Forbert, you know, he goes along with the trend of what the NHL, you know, Stanley cup

35:24 champions of late have become a bigger defenseman. You know, he's six, three, like, you know,

35:30 kills a ton of time at five on down a man. And I think he brings a lot. And, you know,

35:37 I think if you lose him, you miss a bunch. If you lose Grizzly, you miss a lot.

35:42 I don't want to trade DeBrusque because the other thing is like, you don't have Taylor Hall anymore.

35:47 You don't have Tyler Bertuzzi, right? Like if those guys were somehow still here,

35:50 it'd be like, oh, DeBrusque can be kind of crossed off the list, but you don't have that.

35:54 And the other thing is, and we haven't touched on this from DevCamp. I know you did a DevCamp

35:58 podcast, Lysel. I think everyone expects Lysel to jump up and kind of be a production,

36:03 productive guy, but I don't know if that's coming. I don't know if that is all that there.

36:09 You know, again, the skill is there, but watch him away from the puck. It's not,

36:12 you know, that's a guy who's not, I don't think he's quite NHL ready. So I don't think he's going

36:17 to be jumping into the top six next season to start at least, you know, I don't, I don't fully

36:21 see that yet. So I think all three are, are, you know, guys you want to keep if I had to pick,

36:28 they underutilized, they didn't really use Grizzic a lot in the playoffs last year. And I think,

36:33 you know, with the way the league's trending and maybe also you can get something for him,

36:37 a team might look at him and say, Oh, that's a guy who can, you know, jump on our power play,

36:40 be a productive guy. Maybe you can get a little something more for him than you would for Forbert.

36:44 I don't want to do that. But I think if I had to pick one of those three or try to be him,

36:49 it's tough. Cause I think he's a great player and I think he adds a lot, but just what you got there.

36:54 I think that out of those three, it's probably him. No, I think it is him. And I think you're

36:58 right. And that would be my choice. And it would be because simply, well, it's twofold, right?

37:05 You want and need a bigger defenseman core. Uh, look at the loss of it and look at the

37:10 Vegas golden Knights. Look at the Tampa Bay lightning. Look at the teams that have won the cup

37:14 in the recent past, but blues plus the board, huge decor, six foot two, six foot three, 210 pounds,

37:20 like across the board, like average size. You know, they don't have any five foot nine,

37:25 175 pound defenseman. And I value Matt Grizzley a ton. I love watching the way he can escape the

37:31 D zone with the puck and the way he moves it up the ice. And I think he is, he's turned himself

37:36 into an excellent NHL player. Like he's taken his ability and he's maximized it. He's a good kid.

37:41 He's a good player, obviously a great story with his dad being on the bull gang and him being from

37:45 Charlestown. Like there's, he's had an excellent run with the Boston Bruins, but I think when you

37:50 look at the size and I think you also look at a guy like Mason low ride that looked like,

37:55 looks like he's very close to the NHL and looks like he's going to be ready sooner rather than

37:59 later. You all of a sudden take out Matt Grizzley and put in Mason low ride. All of a sudden your

38:06 defenseman core is six foot three, 210 pounds all the way across the board. And you look a lot more

38:13 like the teams that have been winning the cup lately. And you're not really getting a drop off

38:16 as far as moving the puck offensive ability. Like that kid's got it. You know, he was the

38:22 best player I thought far development camp. Oh, I don't even close dominant. And, and I think

38:27 they've told him to scale back, like the high risk play with the puck to scale back some of

38:32 the offensive stuff, you know, and, and some of the stuff that you can be the over-aggressiveness

38:38 to make sure he's being sound defensively. He's playing good positional hockey and make sure he's

38:42 doing fundamentally what he's supposed to as a defenseman, at least to start as a young player.

38:47 So I don't even think he had dialed up to 10 volume, you know, during development camp,

38:51 as far as like trying to razzle dazzle people with what he can do with the puck.

38:55 I think he was just playing good, solid defenseman and showing them that he could do it.

38:58 So I think because of that reason, and that's usually how these trades work, right? You're not

39:03 going to deal a guy like Grizz like, unless you feel like you've got another option or another

39:08 answer or something that you can fill in there. Now, does it happen? Maybe does Bergeron like,

39:13 not play for like the first month of the season and then come back later on into the year.

39:17 Who knows? Like, let's put a theoretical scenario out there where Bergeron, maybe he wants, you

39:22 know, maybe he wants to heal up more. Maybe he doesn't want to play the full grind of the season.

39:27 Maybe he comes back, you know, a month or two. And I don't think he's going to do that because

39:30 he's the captain. And I think he feels responsibility and like, it's not, it wouldn't be him

39:34 to do something like that, but that would be the perfect scenario for the Bruins where maybe they

39:40 have Grizz like for the first month, maybe they make sure low rise ready down in Providence for

39:45 the first few weeks, month of the season, make sure he's like ready to come out of the oven.

39:50 And then, you know, they can pull the trigger on all this stuff and be salary cap compliant,

39:55 you know, making the moves that they want to and, and sort of, you know, replacing one with the

40:01 other. I don't think that's necessarily going to happen. It'll probably go in. It would,

40:04 if they signed Bergeron, I would suspect that it would go into training camp with them being over

40:09 the salary cap because they don't have to get cap compliant until opening night. And they would look,

40:14 take a long look at Mason low ride, make sure that he's ready for an NHL, for the NHL and ready to

40:20 take on, you know, a top four role 20 minutes a night on his shoulders, and then maybe make that

40:25 decision to move Grizz like, and, and I could see all of those sort of dominoes coming, you know,

40:30 falling in succession like that. But I think to your general point, I'm with you. I think Grizz

40:35 like is the guy that you move. You have a surplus of defensemen you added to it when you signed

40:39 Kevin Shattenkirk. So I think you have, you know, prospect wise and NHL player wise, you have too

40:46 many defensemen right now. You should move one of them to create salary caps, best space to do what

40:51 you want to do. And you already moved Taylor hall. I think if you really start moving more top six

40:57 caliber wingers that can put the puck in the net, you're going to be cutting into the bone where

41:01 you're just not going to have enough players that can do that. And you're going to be substantially

41:03 hurting your offense. Yeah. But it's interesting. Like you mentioned the surplus of D and it's

41:09 tough because right now on the left side, just left shot defense, but you have Lindholm,

41:13 you have four Bert, you have Grizz, like he has a Boral. And I think that's about it,

41:17 unless I'm missing someone no more Orloff. And so you have those four. And I think it's tough.

41:23 Cause like, if you let go of, let's say you do trade Grizz, like, and then, all right,

41:27 so you got Lindholm for Bert, you know, I think low ride probably could benefit from a full year

41:32 in Providence. I don't know if they want to rush it. You know, again, if he's looking great in

41:38 training camp and like, is just completely ready, then you have to do it. You can't, you know,

41:43 make sense. But I mean, if they ended the season with Lindholm, for Bert is a Boral down the left

41:48 side, or, you know, maybe you have, you know, a guy jumped from the right side to the left side,

41:51 but let's just say it's a Boral and third pairing. I don't love that. Like I don't,

41:55 but maybe you can tread water for a bit with that. See how it plays out. You mentioned like,

42:00 you know, if, if two months into the season, low rise ready. Okay, great. You know, or a right

42:05 shot defenseman can jump over to the left side. You know, maybe you do that again.

42:10 They're not going to be the 65 wind team. They were last year. I think that's one thing that

42:14 people have to kind of get on is you're going to have holes in this, in this roster. And like,

42:18 as we said, like, you know, do you trade DeBrusque and have a huge hole in the top six?

42:21 So you're without hall Bertuzzi and, and DeBrusque, or are you going to trade Grizzly can be kind of

42:26 without a third pairing left shot defenseman. Like I would, I guess I'd rather be without that.

42:31 Cause you do have a guy in his borough who can tread water. It can be kind of a stop gap back

42:35 there, you know, just do his thing, I guess. Well, I mean, look, they they've got to get

42:39 the return on the first round investment for him and maybe that return is filling in for a couple

42:46 of months until low rise ready. But I can tell you Jim Montgomery's head might explode if that's

42:51 the case for the first couple of months of the season, because I was down there, I was down

42:56 there in Florida last year. It was the game right before Thanksgiving where low-rise not low-rise

43:02 where's Boral eight a puck behind the net, like panicked basically, and swallowed the puck and

43:08 just kept it behind on the, along the end boards behind the net got stripped and it turned into a

43:12 goal in front of the net. And the Panthers ended up winning the game. That was the last time that's

43:17 Boral played for a good, like four months, three or four months. And he was deep into the doghouse

43:23 after that. And granted, we're talking about a much more talented Bruins team where there probably

43:26 wasn't a spot for him anyway. And it took a long time for him to get back in just because they had,

43:31 you know, depth all over the place, both back end and front. But I also, I think it also speaks to

43:37 like, at that point, Monty said, I don't trust this guy and I'm not putting him back in the lineup.

43:41 And it'll be interesting if they are forced to sort of roll him out there for a month or two

43:46 into the season. But like, to your point, that could happen too. Like if they really decide they

43:51 need to make the grizzly move now to not paint themselves in a corner salary cap wise and

43:56 training camp where they're forced to make a move and probably get cents on the dollar in return,

44:00 then you make that move and say, we are going to live with Boral if Lowry is not ready and then do

44:06 it for a month or two until he gets ready. But I can tell you right now, just watching Lowry right

44:10 now, seeing Charlie McAvoy at a similar stage, you know, maybe five years ago, he probably needs a

44:16 little bit more time than McAvoy did. Just McAvoy, I think was ahead of him. And just, I think a

44:22 little more, you know, a little more developed and polished in his abilities. But Lowry, I don't

44:28 think is that far behind. I don't think it's going to take much AHL time before he's ready

44:32 to move to the next level. I think it's just more of the speed and the physicality and getting used

44:36 to that stuff. And it helps a lot when you're like six foot five to get used to that.

44:40 And a good skater. I think that's the one thing with him that I think like,

44:44 you know, they're so fortunate because, you know, he's six foot four, good skater that goes along

44:50 with the NHL defenseman of 2023, right? Like good size, good skater moves the puck well.

44:57 And, you know, again, I think there's solace in the fact that, you know, you have him as Lindholm

45:01 there, you know, you'll probably have Derek for, let's say you just say, let's say, let's say you

45:05 trade Grizzly. You don't need to immediately go out and say, well, we need to figure out that,

45:10 that third, you know, the left shot defensive. You have your guy in waiting and Mason Lowry,

45:15 whether that's in December of this year, whether it's earlier, whether it's later, like he will

45:20 come up at some point and have an impact. And I think there is solace in, you know, there's a lot

45:24 of holes in this prospect pool. We have talked about them at length, you know, in previous

45:31 episodes and writing like that prospect pool is not outstanding, but I think the one thing you can

45:37 bank on is you have a top four left shot defenseman in the system who is going to make a, an impact

45:45 at the NHL level. And whether that's, you know, this year, next year, you know, there's solace in

45:50 that. So if this is a, if this is kind of a bridge year, you know, we talk a lot about next off

45:55 season, they're going to have more space. Hopefully the cap goes up. Like that's when you can maybe

46:00 kind of figure out your center position you know, life post Bergeron, if that's the case, and this

46:07 is kind of a, you know, sort of a bridge year, maybe, maybe Zaboral on that third pair is what

46:12 you do, or you move over a right shot guy, or you bring low right up for spurts during the year.

46:17 And again, that's not like punting on the season. I mean, the Panthers had Mark stall

46:22 on defense and guys like that who, you know, we're, we're past their prime and we're kind of

46:26 looked on, you know, lower on the totem pole, but did their job. And I think if you can get,

46:31 you know, I don't, I don't put those expectations on Jacobs of oral. There's no reason to yet.

46:36 But you know, at least you have low Ryan waiting, as you said, because as you said, I mean,

46:40 clearly the best guy at development camp. I mean, the only one that was even rivaling him,

46:44 I think was Poytras. But that's down the road. That's not anytime soon. So yeah, I mean, it's,

46:49 it's really, you know, it's a tough call though. If Bergeron does come back. I mean, I think,

46:53 I think everyone would rather Bergeron do come back than not, but you do have to make a tough,

46:58 tough personnel decision if he doesn't. Well, Evan, I think we just solved all the

47:04 Boston Bruins problems in the last 45 minutes. So like we've done it. All they got to do is,

47:08 all they got to do is listen to this podcast. So they got all the answers to the questions, right?

47:12 They already do. So I don't think we have to tell them. I think they'll know to do that. I would

47:15 hope that's right. Evan, thank you very much. Evan Marinovsky from new England hockey journal,

47:20 the Bruins beat host. Check out that podcast also in the CLNS network. Thanks for coming. And thanks

47:26 to our sponsors, FanDuel sports book. We love you. You've been with us from the beginning and

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47:50 with Hags. We'll see you at the rink.

Bruins 4C Candidates + Cap Casualties w/ Evan Marinofsky | Pucks w/ Haggs

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