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Pucks with Haggs podcast host Joe Haggerty and guest Mick Colageo talk about the latest in the Jeremy Swayman negotiations and talk about the horrible Johnny Gaudreau tragedy.   Prize Picks! Get in on the excitement with PrizePicks, America’s No. 1 Fantasy Sports App, where you can turn your hoops knowledge into serious cash. Download the app today and use code CLNS for a first deposit match up to $100! Pick more. Pick less. It’s that Easy! Go to https://PrizePicks.com/CLNS  Gametime! Take the guesswork out of buying NBA tickets with Gametime. Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code CLNS for $20 off your first purchase. Download Gametime today. Last minute tickets. Lowest Price. Guaranteed. Terms apply. Go to https://gametime.co !  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Welcome to the #CLNS Media Network’s YouTube channel for Boston #Bruins hockey. CLNS Media is the leading online provider of audio/video coverage for the Boston sports. Get complete inside access to the Bruins at TD Garden, the game day skates at Warrior, and everywhere on the road. CLNS #NHLBruins' credentialed insiders Mike "Trags" Petraglia, Evan Marinofski, Conor Ryan, and Joe "Haggs" Haggerty. Providing instantaneous news and analysis all in real time, as well as full access to complete videos from the players, coaches, ownership and everyone else on Causeway Street.  For the CLNS award winning Celtics, Patriots, Red Sox, College hoops, NBA History, go here to featured channels- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiP7KyKodc3OHuN_XhEyPPw?sub_confirmation=1

Transcript

00:00Pucks with Hags is brought to you by Price Picks and the Game Time app.

00:07Welcome to another episode of the Pucks with Hags podcast powered by Price Picks, the exclusive

00:11daily fantasy partner of the CLNS Media Network.

00:13This is the 119th episode of the Pucks with Hags podcast.

00:16I'm your host, Joe Hagerty.

00:17You can find my work at joehagerty.substack.com.

00:22Subscribe to a premium membership, get all of my Bruins and NHL writing sent straight

00:25directly to your inbox.

00:27You can also find my work at Boston Sports Journal.

00:30I file three columns a week for them about the Boston Bruins, plenty of great stuff at

00:34Boston Sports Journal, so check out bostonsportsjournal.com.

00:38I believe it's the 119th episode of the Pucks with Hags podcast.

00:41With me, longtime friend and colleague, Mick Colaggio.

00:44Mick, welcome to the show.

00:46Please tell everybody where they can find your work.

00:47Thanks, Joe.

00:48You can find me at bostonhockeynow.com.

00:51I write a weekly column on the Bruins for them, and I'm in the current issue of the

00:55Hockey News with the Bruins article on their yearbook preseason collection of team surveys.

01:04Awesome.

01:05Everybody check that out at the Hockey News.

01:07Finn actually got a subscription to the Hockey News as a gift for Christmas, so he will be

01:12reading your work, Mick.

01:13I'll point that out to him for sure when it comes in the mail.

01:17Let's thank our sponsors real quick as well.

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02:10Game Time.

02:11All right.

02:13Sad news, Mick, to start this show.

02:17We're not going to dwell on it because there's really not much to be said beyond just an

02:22unthinkable tragedy and sadness about the whole situation, but news came out early this

02:28morning that Johnny Gaudreau and his brother Matthew were both hit and killed, I guess,

02:34by a drunk driver while they were biking in New Jersey the weekend of their sister's wedding.

02:42Both taken in the prime of their lives.

02:44Johnny Gaudreau was a dad, a husband, Matthew Gaudreau, minor league hockey player.

02:50I can't even fathom the levels of tragedy for the Gaudreau family given the whole situation

02:57and just the hockey world in general.

02:59Johnny Hockey was an exciting player, a very likable kid, somebody that was really fun

03:04to watch and somebody that had really made his mark in the NHL.

03:10It's just really sad to hear of passing way too soon of both him and his brother.

03:14Yeah.

03:15I mean, anybody who wasn't rooting for Johnny Hockey to catch fire in Columbus was basically

03:22not rooting for that so they could get him on their own team and have it happen there.

03:26And so, this hurts.

03:30It's so unnecessary.

03:35I don't know if there were priors, but a few years ago, I was a juror in a driving under

03:46the influence case in New Bedford, Mass., and the guy had priors and we weren't allowed

03:53to know that because it would have biased us.

03:56And because the case was presented so poorly by the state, we had to get the guy off.

04:02And so, I was part of a system that keeps putting people like this on the road and

04:11it really pissed me off.

04:13Yeah.

04:14No, I don't blame you because that is completely avoidable and completely senseless when it's

04:22the result of somebody driving under the influence.

04:27That just makes it all the more tragic when you find out just how senseless it all was.

04:33But I think right now, you just think about Johnny Gaudreau's family, Matthew Gaudreau's

04:41family, everybody, their friends and family, everybody that knew them and what was taken

04:46away from them in the prime of his life.

04:49Just really, really sad.

04:51So my thoughts go out to the Gaudreau family right now.

04:55Columbus Blue Jackets fans, friends of the Gaudreau's, the Boston College community,

05:01everybody that he knew there while he was a star player at Boston College.

05:05Johnny Gaudreau was a kid that touched a lot of people's lives and I'm really sorry to

05:11hear about his passing and the way it went down.

05:14So my thoughts and prayers are out to everybody that was touched by Johnny Gaudreau.

05:20So let's move on from the sad news and get back to the Bruins, what we usually talk about, Mick.

05:27And I have a feeling we're going to be talking about today what we've talked about for most

05:33of the episodes this summer, and that will be Jeremy Swayman.

05:42It continues to go on.

05:43Now we're seeing every week somebody is like chiming in.

05:46This week it was Jeremy Swayman.

05:48He was on a podcast.

05:51I think it was called the Mark Lewis is Cool podcast, which I'd never heard of before,

05:55but he was a guest on that.

05:56Mark Lewis.

05:57He is cool.

05:58You got this.

05:59Okay.

06:00I don't know him.

06:01I don't know the podcast, but congrats for getting Swayman on and him getting some pub.

06:05He got a nice bump this week from getting the guests of the moment.

06:12And Swayman was asked his mindset about negotiations right now and sort of where they're at.

06:19And this is what he said.

06:20If you were to ask me that same question a year ago, I would answer it truthfully and

06:24I would say it's scary and it's a lot of resentment towards people that want you to succeed.

06:30And when you're not getting compensated for your endless efforts and what you do best,

06:33it's a nerve wracking feeling because it's your family that you're fighting for.

06:37The answer I'm going to give you this year is that I've educated myself.

06:40I understand the business side of it all.

06:42And it's given me a completely new mindset of understanding the business and how to react

06:46to it.

06:47I understand the cap is going up and where it will be in years.

06:49I understand my comparables and I can't ruin the goalie market for other players that are

06:54coming on down the line.

06:55I went to the school business at the University of Maine, so I understand it and love it all.

07:00I'm doing classes at Stanford right now through the NHLPA for business.

07:03I understand that these experiences that I'm having now are going to help me post career

07:06when I want to be a businessman and when I want to talk about serious stuff.

07:10All right.

07:12I find that interesting.

07:14I would have loved if there was a follow up question asking him who exactly he thinks

07:21his comparables are.

07:23I know because that's been your steady Eddie argument here that he doesn't have the comparables

07:29to make these demands.

07:33I saw somebody on Twitter that was saying, I think it was a hockey reporter, was saying

07:41that Saros was one of his comparables, so he should get $8.5 to $9 million a year.

07:47I was like, I don't think you understand what comparables are.

07:50If you think Saros is a comparable, then he's going to get paid $8.5 to $9 million a year.

07:55Saros is getting like $7.7.

07:58The way it works is your comparables are what you get paid like.

08:09Your comparables are not you get paid at $1.5 million more than what your comparable is.

08:14That's not how comparables work either.

08:15Your comparables are I have the same numbers or similar numbers to X, Y, and Z, so I should

08:21get paid like X, Y, and Z, not I should get paid substantially more than X, Y, and Z.

08:26That's not how it works.

08:27Well, do you think that Swayman in his theoretical soliloquy was making an argument that could

08:35be applied to this in the manner of when Saros signed his contract, this was the cap,

08:41this was the situation, we now know the cap is higher this year, it's going up higher

08:45in the future, and therefore, if I was going to make a comparable to UC Saros, National

08:52Predators goalie everyone, that we would have a comparable that is truly equal if I'm asking

09:00for this much more because that's my position in the market.

09:04But Saros' contract is starting this year just like Swayman's would be.

09:08So it's the exact same contract.

09:09So when did he sign it?

09:11The cap going up I think has no relevance because Saros just signed his contract and

09:15it just started.

09:16Like just now he signed it?

09:18It's the same.

09:19What's that?

09:20When did he sign it?

09:21I think it was very recently.

09:22I don't think it was that long ago.

09:24This offseason?

09:25I think it might have been or towards the end of the regular season.

09:27I don't know.

09:28It was in the last six to 12 months.

09:30With the cap in the same future scope that it is right now.

09:33You knew the cap was going up, Mick.

09:34This is not a new revelation.

09:37The cap is going up every year.

09:39That's not something that is really news.

09:42It goes up every year now and the projections have been that it's going to go up.

09:46I just don't see that.

09:48There's no way.

09:50If your contract is starting this year and that contract is starting this year and it

09:53was just recently signed in the last few months, you can't just say, oh, the cap is going up.

09:57I should be getting 1.5 million more.

09:59No, that's not how it works.

10:00No, not through that close in timeline.

10:02That is not how it works.

10:03I don't think it's a weird comparable to me anyway.

10:07No, it is a weird comparable.

10:09The only comparable that you could potentially use is the Islanders goaltender, Sorokin.

10:19Even that one, and he's getting paid over 8 million a year, but he's a little older

10:25than Swayman and he's played well over 50s average, like 56 or 57 games a season over

10:31the last three years.

10:33He's been a Vezina Trophy finalist.

10:35He's I think at a higher level than Swayman.

10:37Yeah, he would have won it if Omar hadn't.

10:39Right.

10:40He's at a higher level than Swayman too, based on his resume and what he's done.

10:44I don't really view him as a comparable too.

10:47If he's a comparable in any way, Swayman's a lesser comparable.

10:50I think Swayman would be one rung down on the ladder from Sorokin if you were looking

10:57at career achievement.

10:58Yeah.

10:59I mean, he's comparable in the sense that I think he's only had three full seasons like

11:03Swayman has, but he's been a much bigger workhorse and put up much better numbers and had a much

11:11bigger workload and been viewed as better by his peers or by the GMs in the NHL to vote

11:18on the Vezina than Swayman has.

11:20I don't really view that as an apples to apples comparable either.

11:25I still think, and Jeremy Swayman can disagree with me all day long and that's fine, but

11:32I still think he's in the seven to eight range and he's under all these other goalies that

11:35have done so much more to this point in their career than he has.

11:39Okay, so you've been pretty consistent before these negotiations that Swayman is the Bruins

11:48future.

11:49Swayman is the number one.

11:50He's a comparable goalie.

11:51He's the one that we can trust in the playoffs.

11:53He's the one we need to go forward with here in Boston.

11:56Then you would get to negotiations and now you've been very consistent about where he

12:01fits in salary wise.

12:03Now let's just say, okay, let's accept part A, let's accept part B, and let's go to part

12:07C and say, what do you, Joe Hagerty, think that Swayman's appropriate strategy should

12:14be for a long-term contract or should he hold out for a short-term contract as a bridge

12:19because he doesn't believe that he should settle for this?

12:23Since you and he don't see eye to eye on this and you're putting yourself in Don Sweeney's

12:27chair right now, would you consider a short-term deal with him knowing that Wood is only a

12:34year away from UFA?

12:37Yeah.

12:38No, and I don't think they should go short-term either because I don't think that's going

12:43to work out well for them.

12:44That's what makes this very difficult.

12:46That's what this is about.

12:48That's what makes this problematic for both sides is that this is not an easy target.

12:56It would have been much easier if Don Sweeney had really swept the leg during arbitration,

13:03had really gone for the throat and had asked for a two-year decision instead of a one-year

13:07decision and then he would be under the lower number through arbitration this coming year

13:12too as he was the starter and he would go out and perform and then you'd feel a lot

13:18better about if he has a great year, he plays 60 games, he's a Vezina Trophy finalist, then

13:23you'd be like, here's the money, take it.

13:26You've earned eight point something.

13:28You're up in a much higher stratosphere as far as goalies go and we feel good about giving

13:33this to you.

13:34I just feel like it's a bit of a risk giving him an eight-year $64 million contract sight

13:42unseen somewhat on a goalie that hasn't played more than 44 games.

13:47Even though I believe he's going to be able to play 60 no problem, I believe he's going

13:51to be a number one guy.

13:52I've felt like the first time I saw him in a training camp that he was a franchise guy

13:57and that he was going to be a star goaltender.

13:58So on one level, I think I'd be okay if the Bruins did that because I believe in him and

14:06I think he's going to live up to it.

14:08But speaking from a GM's perspective and speaking from a team that's going to shell out that

14:13kind of dollars perspective, I'd have a hard time sending out that kind of contract when

14:19I hadn't seen it yet.

14:20I feel like this is the new NHL, though.

14:22I feel like there's been group RFAs all over the league, including many without arbitration

14:27rights who have gotten career contracts ahead of their time in this era.

14:32It's like a new-

14:33Not goalies, though.

14:34What's that?

14:35Not goalies.

14:36Goalies have not really been given those kind of contracts.

14:38Why not?

14:40These people, these people go around sloganing up that the goalie is the most important position

14:45in the league.

14:46I know.

14:48You know, you and I both know they're not viewed that way, though.

14:50You know, they're not viewed with-

14:51No, it's coaches and goalies is a million of them.

14:54It's a matter of getting the right one for your team.

14:56Right.

14:58One thing I will say, the report from WEI this past week that he's looking for $10 million

15:04a year, I don't buy that.

15:06I don't think that's-

15:08I don't find it unbelievable.

15:11I feel like if the Bruins are starting at $6 million, why shouldn't he start at $10 million

15:15if he wants to wind up at $8 million?

15:17Because he has no business asking to be paid like Andrei Veselevsky.

15:20I don't think they have any business.

15:23I think these days there is no business.

15:27That is so outlandish that he would think or that his camp would think he should be

15:32paid like Andrei Veselevsky.

15:34Like, no.

15:36That's not- that is not even in the realm of like being realistic in any way, shape

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17:09And the other thing I will say about Swayman's comment is that, you know, when he starts

17:16talking about fighting to feed his family, when it's the difference between making $7

17:24million a year and making $8 point something million a year, like that is not going to

17:29ring true with family.

17:30He means his great, great, great, great, great, great grandchildren.

17:33I know.

17:34The bottom line is Jeremy Swayman has earned the big money he's going to get, right?

17:39Like his hard work, his toil, his desire to be elite, like his willingness to stay around

17:44Boston and Warrior in the summertime and work out and continue to get better and better.

17:48And like his mental strength to sort of like power through being in a tandem with a guy

17:54that won a Vesna trophy and still end up winning the job this past year.

17:59Like there's a lot going on there that's great.

18:01And there's a lot of things he deserves credit for that he's done to build himself up to

18:06this point.

18:06So like he deserves to get paid and he's going to get paid.

18:10And that's why I think he has some peace of mind, too, is because he knows he's going

18:12to get paid regardless.

18:14Like he knows the big money is coming regardless of how this shakes out.

18:19It's just a matter of like if it's like clean or if it's kind of like an ugly process to

18:25get there and like how the road that they take to get there, like that's really where

18:30what it comes down to.

18:31But like he's going to get paid either way.

18:33But I would caution him, like if you start talking about like the very strong union speak

18:39about like feeding your family and like, you know, all that stuff, like you're going to

18:43start turning off a lot of hockey fans that like struggle day to day to put food on the

18:47table.

18:50People who are getting turned the screw turned on them by the enemy shield, making them buy

18:55additional games after they've already loyally put up their cable or streaming money for

19:00Nessun 360 or however they get the games.

19:04And then after all that, no, we're not putting this Tuesday night game against the Buffalo

19:08Sabres on TV for you.

19:10What you already paid us for.

19:12No, we're going to put that one on ESPN plus and Hulu and you have to give us an extra

19:16eleven and a half bucks or whatever it is.

19:18And, you know, I mean, it's and then we're going to make a big whoop about about all

19:26these platforms.

19:26And so people in all corners of the earth will see the NHL that never had it before.

19:31No, it's just we're going to just get another dime out of your pocket, another dollar out

19:36of your pocket.

19:37We're just reaching even deeper when we know you already are just trying to somehow hack

19:42the inflation of this world that we're all in.

19:44And it's it's just it's greed.

19:47It's it's it's capitalism run amok.

19:51And and it's really holding the fans in contempt because we got you where we want you.

19:55And I know I'm kind of going off on a tangent here.

19:57No, it's true, though.

19:59That's the backdrop of it.

20:00But it annoys the crap out of me.

20:02Yeah, no, I think the fans have a choice.

20:04The fans make all this possible.

20:06They're the ones they're the benefactors.

20:08If all of a sudden people said, I'm done with the NHL.

20:11I'm just going to go watch college hockey.

20:13I'm going to go watch signal.

20:14And they completely stop.

20:16The faucet shuts off and the revenue stops.

20:21And and and they you know, so somewhere along the way, they have to worry about the needle

20:28that breaks the camel's back.

20:32Yeah, the straw that breaks the camel's back.

20:34I agree.

20:34I think they do.

20:35You know, the haystack, the haystack has straw.

20:37I think I made a connection there somewhere.

20:39I knew I knew I was picking up what you were putting down.

20:42I was there.

20:43I I think you're right.

20:45I think they do have to worry to a degree.

20:47But like, is it realistic to think that people are going to drop the NHL and just start watching

20:51college hockey because they're turned off about like having a well, we've already proven

20:56having to get ESPN plus to watch a Bruins game like two or three or four times a year?

21:01Like, I don't think so.

21:02Already proven since TV 38 started carrying the Bruins in the late 60s.

21:06Well, you know, the 68 69 season when games started, they were like, you know,

21:11we're going to keep doing this.

21:12These fans are crazy for this stuff ever since then.

21:15And ever since Nesson was a paid channel in 84, 85, the simultaneous with the beginning

21:20of Hockey East.

21:22This has been the game and the games evolve.

21:24The business evolves, the techniques and everything is it keeps on changing.

21:28However, one thing that never changes is they can count on the people who want the product

21:33to put up whatever it takes to get it.

21:35And they keep on doing this.

21:36And they'd say, yeah, there's going to be a few people who drop off, but we will win

21:40the war.

21:41But let's call it out.

21:42Let's call it what it is.

21:43They're holding the fans in contempt and saying, no, you won't.

21:46No, you won't.

21:48Yeah, but I mean, I'm sure there was grumbling when games went to Nesson.

21:51Like, I was young when that happened.

21:53So I don't really remember that.

21:55Sure.

21:58But I know I'm sure when the Red Sox and the Bruins went to Nesson from channel 38,

22:02where they had been on like for a long time, it was only home games too.

22:06When it started, 38 still had the Bruins road games.

22:09Yep.

22:10So I'm sure they were pissed when that started.

22:13And, you know, you're taking it to the fans, you're screwing the fans, you're stealing

22:18from their pocketbooks, whatever.

22:19Whatever fans said back then, like, you know, as the world turns and as more and more things

22:26are looking, you know, to get a little like revenue stream going, I think there's just

22:31going to be more of that, not less.

22:32And the Celtics, I think, simultaneously went to rival Sports Channel.

22:36Yep.

22:36It's kind of like that.

22:37Yep.

22:37It's like the cable version of 38 and 56.

22:40They used to be on Channel 56 with Gil Santos and Bob Creezy.

22:44I remember that very well.

22:45I used to watch those games all the time.

22:47Yep.

22:48But like, bottom line, getting back to what we're talking about, like, if I were advising

22:52Jeremy Swayman, I would try to steer him away from the putting food on your table when you're

22:56talking about that kind of money.

22:58Like, he has earned that money.

23:00There is no question about it.

23:01He should feel good about it.

23:03Like, he should feel good that he's going to get paid at that level.

23:06He should have peace of mind knowing that that money is coming, that security for him

23:10and his family and for generations to come is coming.

23:12Like, that's a great thing.

23:15And he should feel good about it.

23:16But to put it in terms of like putting food on the table, like, that's not going to ring

23:21true with a lot of Bruins fans that are scraping by.

23:24Like Jimmy Connors, the aging Jimmy Connors at the US Open back in the early 90s, yelling

23:30at the chair, I think it was Frank Hammond, you know, you're stealing dinner from my daughter.

23:35He's arguing a line call.

23:39Come on, cut the crap.

23:41Yeah.

23:41But that is like, I can see that being like a really competitive thing, too, though, like

23:46saying that, like, he probably has to get himself in that mindset.

23:48Like, somebody's taking something from him.

23:50Oh, absolutely.

23:51He had to play.

23:51He had to have a fight in order to.

23:53There had to be a fight.

23:55Some of them, and I'm sure to a degree, that's what Jeremy Swayman is believing.

24:00Like, in these negotiations, they're kind of a fight to be like Roberto Duran.

24:04He had to be able to hate to play it.

24:05I had to hate the opponent to beat him.

24:07Yeah, I'm sure that has part to do with the mindset.

24:09But if you know, I just would be mindful of that because I got people when I posted that

24:14quote, like there were a bunch of people on Twitter that responded back like that.

24:18Like, I'm a Swayman fan, but like, I didn't like that.

24:20And, you know, I could sort of understand why if you're struggling, you don't want to

24:25hear that from professional athletes.

24:27Yeah, it's a minor misstep, but it's a misstep.

24:30No, but it's understandable.

24:32Like, you know, as much as he wants to say, like, it's a business thing for him now.

24:36There's emotion there.

24:37You can hear it in his voice when he's talking about this stuff, that there's an emotional

24:41component to it for him and that he feels like he's in the right and that the Bruins

24:47are trying to, like, not give him what's due.

24:50And that's where, like, I think it's also a sticky negotiation because you want the

24:57Bruins to feel like it was a fair negotiation when it's over and they didn't, like, blow

25:02up, like, the goalie market for years to come by giving too much to somebody that hadn't

25:08quite gotten there yet.

25:10But you also want Jeremy Swayman to feel like he was treated fairly.

25:13He got his just money and that he was compensated fairly and that he's not going to be left

25:21with hard feelings because, like, what you don't want and what you can't have is, like,

25:27him, I think, feeling like he felt last year after the arbitration process where, like,

25:34several times over the course of the season, he was negative about it and sort of voiced

25:38his opinions about it and, you know, really felt it was an unpleasant process and was

25:44left kind of with some hard, bitter feelings as a result of it.

25:48You know, I really don't think you want that from him when this contract is finally done

25:53one way or the other.

25:54And I will say right now, I don't believe this is going to end with him getting traded.

25:58So being pissed at management helped Tim Thomas in 2010-11.

26:03He takes all the brewing stuff off his mask, goes out, wins the Vesna and the Consmite.

26:09Yeah, the hip surgery he had before that season helped, too.

26:12That was a big part of that, too.

26:14That's huge, yeah.

26:15Yeah, that was a weird one.

26:16We do his exit interview after that season ends and then we get the email from the Bruins,

26:24like, the next day that he had hip surgery.

26:26It's like, oh, what?

26:27Nobody asked him about it.

26:29Yeah, but he was, Tim Thomas is such a unique character, you know.

26:35Oh, he's in the sports world, by the way.

26:38Is he?

26:38I think, come on up.

26:40I'll tell you what, you go ahead and talk and I'll look it up.

26:44He's a, Thomas is a unique character.

26:50Swayman is, like, Tim Thomas is your typical goalie, like, very goalie type personality,

26:56behavior, like, all that stuff.

26:58And the odds he had to overcome in order to get there, like, he's a very unique case where I

27:03think he does, because he, throughout his career, performed very well in me versus the world

27:10situations, like, in order for him to get in the NHL, he had to kind of have that defiant.

27:14Oh, you're absolutely right.

27:16Attitude.

27:16You know what I mean?

27:17He had to fight for everything.

27:18But it became a double-edged sword as far as him being a good teammate, because he still

27:22had that attitude when he made it.

27:24And I think it rubbed some people the wrong way, because it was sort of, like, very self-centered

27:29me against the world attitude when it was less about the team and more about him,

27:34from his perspective.

27:36Like, Swayman's not like that.

27:37Swayman's a different kind of guy, I feel like, personality-wise, and a little more

27:41normal, I think, than your run-of-the-mill goalies as far as his personality goes and

27:46who he is.

27:48So I don't know.

27:50Maybe it will be, because, look, he had a great year last year.

27:52He was an All-Star for the first time, and it was after the arbitration process.

27:56So maybe he will be able to perform under those.

28:01I don't see it holding him back at all, because I think he's so committed to his process.

28:05And I think that that foundation was set in place, just like you said about Timmy, about

28:11Saturday, October 5th, by the way, he'll be at Sports World signing autographs for a prize.

28:17So, yeah, I think Swayman, likewise, will also be kind of like Steady Eddie going forward,

28:26doing what he does.

28:28And one of the things Razor brought up when we spoke to him at FanFest in Plymouth last

28:33Sunday was that one of the things Swayman's going to go through as a starter and a number

28:40one goalie on a team is that you're going to go through bad weeks.

28:44And he said he's going to have to learn this part where being in a groove and being great

28:50and having a streak, that's not really what tells you that you're a top goalie in the

28:54league.

28:55It's your ability to get over the bad week that you're going to get.

28:58You play that much, you're going to have a bad week.

29:00That's when you pick yourself up and pick up your team after that.

29:03That's when you're going to really prove your mental.

29:06And he's not saying he doesn't have the right stuff.

29:08He totally believes in him and thinks that he's that guy.

29:12But he says this is the thing that's going to happen this year under the new circumstances.

29:17Yeah, and that's to the point of like when you haven't played 60 plus games and when

29:23you haven't had the number one responsibility, number one goalie responsibility on your shoulders

29:28until you've had it, you can't prove that you can do it.

29:30And it's because of things like that, that you're going to have to pull yourself out

29:36of those situations.

29:37Because guess what?

29:38If you have a tough week as a goalie, the team isn't going to have a tough week.

29:42Like those go hand in hand.

29:44If Jeremy Swayman is struggling, the Bruins are going to be struggling too.

29:47That's true.

29:47And he's going to feel that pressure of all of that on his shoulders.

29:51And it's not going to be able to like, all right, Swayman had a couple of games.

29:54We can go to Allmark here.

29:55Like, I don't think you're going to see that kind of relief, you know, with Corpus Allo.

30:00It's going to be a starring slump that may not affect the trajectory of the club.

30:03We're all looking at you, Jeremy Swayman.

30:05You're the guy, like you need to pull us out of this.

30:08And like, that's a different kind of pressure.

30:09Yeah, it sure is.

30:10And he wants, he's been savoring it and now he's going to get it.

30:14So, yep, definitely.

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31:37Um, but to your point, and we talked about this a little bit before, you think he would

31:42be within his rights to ask for $10 million, or you think that's realistic?

31:46No, I think it's literally within his rights, and we can't disagree on that.

31:51But what I am saying is...

31:52Why do you think?

31:54Well, because, no, because it is.

31:56By the CBA, he can do what the hell he wants.

31:59Well, yeah.

32:00So that's what I'm talking, but what I'm saying now is the difference between now and say

32:0410 years ago is the gloves are off.

32:06Everybody's doing everything differently now.

32:09The same way guys get career contracts before they even have arbitration rights in their

32:15RFAs, restricted free agency.

32:18I just feel like with the whole technique of negotiating and the way management is done

32:23with the cap, all of these things have all been tweaked forward another decade.

32:29The salary cap era is almost 20 years old.

32:32So it's still the same rules to the cap from pretty much then as they were when they brought

32:40it in in 05, 06 season.

32:43And it's more than twice as much as it was.

32:45I think the floor is higher now than what the cap was then, 39.5.

32:50But there is definitely a change of how people do what they do.

32:56And nowadays, even look at offer sheets.

32:59Nobody's bad mouthing offer sheets anymore.

33:01That used to be anathema.

33:03Now it's like, oh, yeah, this is a tool of the CBA and people should use it, you know.

33:10It's unbelievable that things have come around the way they have, that these teams seem to

33:16have made this mysterious evolution of their negotiating techniques of saying, OK, how

33:25are we going to keep this player?

33:27It used to be you hold him down as hard as you can, as far as you can until you have

33:30to give it to him.

33:31Then you give it to him.

33:32Now it's identify the young player, say he's going to be a pillar on our team, and then

33:39pay him like that player.

33:41And that's the most general difference I can see.

33:44And because of that, and because of the convoluted way that comparables can be made, it's

33:50such an inexact science.

33:52To me, I don't see why he wouldn't start here if he wanted to wind up there or thought

33:58he should wind up there.

33:59Yeah, I just think, yeah, if not saying to believe it, I'm just saying I wouldn't count

34:06it out.

34:06I wouldn't discount it.

34:08I don't think he's asking for that because I that is like.

34:15If you're starting there, like if I were the Bruins, I'd be like, I don't even respond

34:21to that.

34:21Well, that's what's happened.

34:24I mean, so from a factual standpoint, you your theory has come true.

34:28If that if that's what happened.

34:31Yeah, I got to think there's there's some back and forth between the two.

34:35But like, that's not even good faith negotiations.

34:40Like, this is my problem.

34:43If you're going to both decline arbitration, that is like a tacit admission of like, we're

34:49going to be in good faith negotiations.

34:51We're going to do this the right way.

34:52We're going to like, you know, if you do that and then you ask for 10 million, like that

34:57is not even close to good.

34:59But now you're jumping from that to what your opinion of good faith negotiations is.

35:03Yeah, and this is what the opinion, I think, between yours and his that are different.

35:08Yeah, you you can't ask.

35:13Like, if you're asking for the same money that every single one of those goalies got

35:17after they won a Vesna trophy, and you're asking for that now, like no way like that

35:23is that is totally unrealistic, totally pie in the sky, like completely like we're going

35:30to ask for everything.

35:32And like and if I guess if that's your negotiating strategy is to ask for everything you could

35:37possibly want that you you're not even close to being in the neighborhood of asking.

35:42You shall pay me a 50 percent stake of ownership.

35:45Yeah, it's starting from there.

35:47It's like, OK, she'll take the hotel to the right of the TD Garden.

35:51I just would hope that they and expect that.

35:54I don't think that that's we're asking for.

35:55I think that's what they probably want to land is somewhere in the eights, I would think.

36:01And maybe Sorokin is the guy they look at as the comparable.

36:05I just don't see it that way.

36:07Like, I think he hasn't done enough to be comparable to Sorokin, even though like I

36:13think the same percentages are probably similar.

36:16But like Sorokin has had a season where he played over 60 games.

36:19He's averaged 57 games a year for the last three years.

36:23Like is Swain was not even close to that, you know, and through no fault of his own

36:28because he was splitting time with Lee and Selmark.

36:29But I don't know.

36:33I just feel like and I know that in the back end, they're buying out free agent years.

36:37So that's going to inflate the number a little bit.

36:38So push comes to shove.

36:40You probably give them the eight because you're buying out so many free agent years.

36:46And, you know, there's a little inflation there, whatever.

36:48Like, I think the Bruins could justify that.

36:51I thought from day one, this was going to wind up around eight times eight.

36:55Yeah.

36:55And if it gets there and that's the final number I like and they avoid a ton of headaches

37:00and it gets them in training camp and it gets the world spinning the right way for the Bruins.

37:05I suppose that that's like, you know, that's that's a fair resolution.

37:09That's something they can feel good about, you know, because you're you're basically

37:14you're putting you're betting your future on him and betting you're putting your money

37:18on him that he's going to be a great goalie for, you know, the next eight years.

37:21But I still even think that if like put it this way, if I were the GM and you look at

37:29it, I'm sure you look at it as a competition.

37:30If you're the front office, you want to win it to some degree.

37:32You want the player to be happy, but you also want to win it or, you know, you want

37:36to do what's right for the league, for your team, for all that.

37:39That's the hardest part about NHL management that I don't know how these guys sleep at

37:43night because it just blows me away that they that they are trying to serve these two masters

37:50here in this double situation.

37:52You're in a series of double binds all the time.

37:56And these are the biggest ones.

37:59Yep, it's true.

38:01And that's as we've said many times, Mick, that's what makes it not such an easy negotiation.

38:06That's why that's why we're at the impasse that we're at for right now.

38:09It's supposed to be a happy partnership now that the NHL has proven to the players union

38:14that, hey, with a salary cap and your 24 percent salary rollback, let's just partner together,

38:22grow the game, do this and let's see what happens.

38:24And it's bigger and wilder than I would have ever imagined.

38:30And then our interview with Nevin Marquardt, former Bruin, former first round draft pick

38:34from 83, who played for them throughout that decade and into the early 90s,

38:41spunky little winger could score some goals, but plagued by shoulder injuries.

38:46And Nevin was always known to be a computer guy before the world was a computer guy.

38:51And and one of the things he said to us last year during our many opportunities to interview

38:56alumni in keeping with the centennial season was that the NHL revenue is about to go nuts.

39:03Things like things that were kind of like things on that could put you on the bench,

39:09virtually on the bench so that you could watch the game from there, watch it like a GoPro from

39:14any player's perspective. There's like things he says that are unbelievable that are going to

39:18happen. And this is all going to go into the to the gross. And and and that this is going to drive

39:24up the cap like like crazy. And so the amount of money that's going to come into this equation,

39:30he says, we don't even have any idea of it yet, but it's right around the corner.

39:34Yeah, I mean, that's true to some degree, but I also they don't the NHL doesn't do gangbuster

39:41ratings on ESPN. So like you also wonder like what the TV contract is going to look like,

39:49you know, the next one that they sign. I don't know. Like, I think it's still a valuable property,

39:56but it's never really been the ratings bonanza that like for national networks when they do those TV

40:03deals. I don't know that they ever get the networks ever get the exact like bang for the

40:10buck they're expecting when they pay for these TV contracts, the big national ones. So like I don't

40:16know. And that's a huge factor in revenue and how much money they're making. And I don't know how

40:21much that's going to improve or grow. So there's like different areas where they're going to like

40:26revenue streams are going to happen in different places. They're going to make money. And there's

40:28other places where I'm not sure it's going to be the same. You would expect it's going to continue

40:32to go up. But yeah, I mean, it's my pay grade to think about these things. But I was amazed by how

40:39surefire he acted that this is coming. Yeah, he's involved in this kind of stuff today,

40:46this sort of, you know, cutting edge technical stuff. He really kind of went crazy with this

40:52stuff in his life. And yeah, but there's also a question, though, of how many people are going to

40:56like pay money for that. You know what I mean? Like, I know, because it'll all get passed on

41:00to the consumer. That is we've figured that out, haven't we? Yes. But yeah, in either way,

41:08it'll be interesting to see how that plays out long term as far as the health and well-being

41:12of the league, which I would assume is just going to go up and up as Swainman referenced in his

41:16comments. Let's also thank our sponsors who have been, you know, going up and up for us at every

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42:12and use the code CLNS for $20 off your first purchase. Download game time today. What time

42:17is it? Game time. All right, Mick, thank you very much for joining us this week, my friend.

42:23My pleasure, Joe.

42:25You got it, and I'm sure we'll be talking about Jeremy Swainman again the next time we're on a

42:29podcast together. It'll be loads of fun, I'm sure. Thank you, everybody out there for listening.

42:34We'll see you at the rink.

42:59you

State of the Jeremy Swayman talks | Pucks with Haggs

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