Eddie | The Dog Walk
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00:00 All right, man, today is Tuesday, September 12th.
00:01 Welcome to the dog walk presented by Barstool Sports.
00:04 I'm here with Chief as always.
00:05 And we're also joined by White Sox, Dave.
00:07 Dave, you don't join in on many Tuesday episodes, but here you are today.
00:10 Welcome back. It's good to be back, Edward.
00:13 Yeah, a little little shitty circumstances of a topic here today.
00:17 Yeah, I said, well, I said, well, I mean, a lot, but we're just I don't know.
00:21 We just we're talking about doing a 9/11 thing.
00:24 Yeah. And we did in twenty twenty one.
00:29 We did like we kind of did kind of laid out the cards of the whole Saudi 9/11
00:33 connection and we're like, what can we do kind of this?
00:36 Well, and we will talk about that, too, because there's been updates since then,
00:40 because right around that time there was, you know, there's a lawsuit from the
00:44 from the families about, you know, where they sued to get documents
00:48 released from the FBI and other sources through a FOIA thing.
00:51 And they were released after that episode.
00:54 So there have been updates on like who knew what with
00:57 the Saudi royal family and or Saudi intelligence, we'll say.
01:01 And we can we can get into that.
01:04 Yeah, so we'll get into all that.
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03:24 All right. So I don't know where you necessarily want to start this.
03:28 I know you did say that there are updates on that whole podcast we did two years ago.
03:31 We could start there if you want.
03:33 That might be natural, unless if you know, I kind of because I'm so much older
03:37 than than you is what you're 30.
03:40 I'm 32. You're 32.
03:42 Because I was in high school when that happened.
03:44 So I remember it like so.
03:47 Well, you were. I was a sophomore in high school.
03:49 Yeah, I was seventh grade, fifth grade.
03:51 OK, so what do they do for fifth graders for that?
03:53 So I still remember I was taking the Terranova test.
03:56 You remember that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
03:57 You like, oh, yeah, it was like a not a placement exam,
04:01 but like a benchmark of like, like a state.
04:04 Yeah. Yeah.
04:05 State sponsored like where your school stood or whatever, you know.
04:08 So I was taking the Terranova test and, you know, the
04:11 the they made an announcement like, oh, like and they said what happened.
04:16 But they're like, oh, like, don't worry, just keep taking your test.
04:20 OK, so I didn't like and then the day went on as if nothing happened.
04:23 We never had a TV.
04:26 They never showed us anything.
04:28 There was none of that.
04:29 That was not my experience at all.
04:30 So I didn't really know what was going on whatsoever.
04:33 The only thing I remember is that like the teachers looked a little
04:37 like wide eyed when you saw them, like when you're when you.
04:39 Yeah, we are.
04:40 We we changed one class in fifth grade.
04:42 And I remember changing that one class or like going to lunch and saying like,
04:45 yeah, that's when they were like wide eyed.
04:48 But that I truly didn't even know what's going on.
04:49 But then you just had like you're like, oh, it's it's time to take
04:52 like fucking regular math. Yeah.
04:55 There we are. That was that we had football practice.
04:57 I remember my friend called the coach and was like, hey, is practice canceled?
05:01 And his son answered.
05:02 It's like, well, why would it be canceled?
05:04 And my friend was like, well, yeah, I love it.
05:07 And I was like, well, what's that got to do with it?
05:08 And then we went to practice and that was it.
05:10 There was not a big thing at all for like my day.
05:14 Person. Yeah.
05:15 And I wonder if that was like, like, hey, these kids are too young for this.
05:19 Kind of thing.
05:20 Yeah. I still remember the practice, though.
05:22 You know, I mean, I still remember people talking.
05:25 I remember our first practice back. Yeah.
05:28 Because I want to say it was.
05:32 Part of me thinks it might have been even the next week, like we didn't.
05:36 We definitely did not do practice that Tuesday.
05:38 I don't think we did it the next day, but I remember.
05:42 Like there a plane went overhead because everything was grounded for a while.
05:48 And I remember playing and I believe it was a military plane cargo,
05:53 you know, something.
05:53 But like we're in the middle of running drills.
05:55 And then like everybody just kind of stopped and like looked up
05:59 and like watched the plane go across the sky because it was like
06:01 that was the first plane that we had seen in the sky since that Tuesday morning.
06:06 But it was it was.
06:07 I had Miss Mulder.
06:09 I had a big crush on Miss Mulder.
06:11 Sophomore year, it was English class and.
06:15 They.
06:18 They made an announcement over the intercom and then they brought in a TV
06:21 or maybe we had one, but I remember it was the TV was on.
06:24 It was second second period.
06:26 And she flipped on the news and like we watched the second one happen live.
06:31 So it's like you were just watching like the smoke.
06:33 No one really knew what was going on.
06:35 The second one hit was like,
06:36 what the fuck is going on?
06:39 And like nobody knew.
06:41 Then they like made an announcement.
06:42 They turned the TVs off and the principal came on and made like this speech.
06:47 Like somehow he knew like everything felt like within a half an hour
06:51 or still in that class.
06:52 Our teacher, Miss Mulder, ran out of the class.
06:55 She thought that her father was in Boston flying home.
06:59 She knew the flight had taken off from Boston.
07:00 So she was like sobbing, crying, thinking her dad was on that plane.
07:03 Got in touch with her dad.
07:05 The principal came on and was like talking about like the Kennedy's.
07:07 Like I remember where I was at Kennedy assassination.
07:09 And I was like, what is what is going on here?
07:12 Because it wasn't like we're under attack.
07:14 It was just, you know. Yeah.
07:15 But he had seen something and then like throughout the day,
07:18 every single class was just we're watching 9/11.
07:23 So for it was not a normal day at all.
07:26 Whatever test or whatever, like it was far.
07:28 You still went to every period.
07:31 And you just sat down and watch TV.
07:33 And that's all that's all anybody was doing.
07:34 Then they said, hey, like just go on the football, no, whatever sport you're in.
07:38 Nothing. You just went home.
07:40 And my dad was traveling to he was in like Texas or something.
07:44 He just rented a car and just drove home.
07:46 So he drove like 18 hours straight home.
07:47 And it was like I remember being like, we're going like we're going to go to
07:51 by the end of the day, it was like we're going to war.
07:54 And I was like, you know, 15 or 16.
07:56 I was still 15 being like, I'm going to have to be like,
07:59 and we're going to have like World War three.
08:01 I'm going to be, you know, like we're all going.
08:02 It was like a very I remember being like very shaken, scared.
08:06 So that was that was it was like a I can't believe you guys just went on.
08:12 Yeah, I'm trying to think of the correct way to word it
08:15 because I don't want it to be like insensitive.
08:18 But it was almost like,
08:20 you know how now we're like,
08:22 unfortunately, a lot of terrible things happen in schools.
08:25 And like there's like videos of like the kids are like under their desk.
08:29 You know, I mean, it was kind of like let the children be oblivious.
08:32 Yeah. Let them like not know like what was going on.
08:35 Whereas like we sat there and like, you know, you're not you know,
08:39 something's going on, like you're smart enough to know something's going on.
08:42 But like you're just like, oh, like they're just hiding it from us.
08:44 You know? Yeah. Like I don't.
08:46 Did I explain that? Yeah. Yeah.
08:47 Kind of know what I'm getting at, probably.
08:49 But that's kind of what did you what are the seventh grade?
08:52 It's like in that sweet spot where it was a little different for me.
08:55 I was telling you this like a week ago in May of 2001.
08:59 There's a picture of me on a Polaroid.
09:00 It's a Polaroid picture.
09:01 So it's not like on the Internet or anything of me in the observation deck
09:05 of the World Trade Center with my grant, my grandma and two of my sisters.
09:09 I don't think my brother was there.
09:11 He might have been a little too young.
09:12 But when so I was in Mr.
09:15 Williams class, same last name I would.
09:17 He was probably about seventy five at the time.
09:20 I don't know if he's still around, but he walked in.
09:22 He said the World Trade Center just got hit by a plane.
09:25 We think we're under attack.
09:26 And I remember thinking like everybody was looking around.
09:30 I remember looking around like, do you guys understand what's going on?
09:34 Nobody knew that World Trade Center.
09:36 Everybody knew it as the Twin Towers in my class.
09:38 And no one had any fucking help. Yeah.
09:40 But I did because I was just there like months earlier.
09:43 And you said that before.
09:45 What was it like, May?
09:46 And it was May of 2001.
09:47 My dad's got the picture still.
09:49 The only reason I never tweeted it before is because I have a Yankees
09:52 hat on it because we and that's like why you love P Diddy and Mase.
09:55 Who didn't? Yeah, exactly.
09:56 That's that's what I'm jay-z.
09:58 And I had a red Yankees hat because of that.
10:00 But within five minutes of the teacher coming in
10:05 and explain what was going on, I got a call over our intercom
10:10 saying, David Williams, please head to the principal's office.
10:13 I'm like, fuck, what I do this time.
10:15 My mom was there with my siblings and she pulled us out of school
10:17 and we were on the way home to my
10:20 to my house.
10:21 And my mom is crying hysterically.
10:23 Can't get a hold of her parents.
10:24 They only live like 45, 50 miles south of New York City
10:28 on the Jersey Shore.
10:31 Obviously, cell phones were very primitive at the time.
10:33 And my dad was working in downtown Chicago that day.
10:37 He was in the electrical union at the time.
10:39 Couldn't get a hold of him.
10:40 They thought Flight 93 was coming to attack the Sears Tower or something.
10:44 It was a complete shit show.
10:46 My mom specifically said, we're going to World War Three.
10:48 You know, that's what she said.
10:49 That's what will stick out to me until the day I die.
10:52 She said, as soon as we got into the car, we're going to World War Three.
10:54 I never thought of it like, oh, I'm going to get drafted like you may have.
10:58 Yeah, I'm going.
10:59 But I was like, my future is set.
11:02 My next door neighbor's older brother, Tim Seiko.
11:05 I forget his older brother's name.
11:06 I haven't spoken to Tim in 20 whatever years now.
11:09 But he was out the door the next day.
11:11 He enlisted. Yeah.
11:13 And I think I there was a moment where I was like looking at
11:16 like the academies and stuff like that, because it was just like, yeah,
11:19 like you had like sometimes a pride.
11:21 And so I was I can't remember.
11:22 Oh, I was talking to chaps about that on his show the other day.
11:25 After that, there was like an intense, intense
11:30 nationalistic pride, like, you know, with with George going from George Bush
11:35 throwing out the first pitch of the of the World Series game to like
11:39 everybody like I remember being on the Jersey Shore for like
11:43 maybe the next summer it was.
11:44 And you could play paintball games where you would fire
11:48 a hopper of paintballs at a dude dressed in Osama bin Laden.
11:52 There's some wild things that were going.
11:54 Yeah. The Islamophobia was fucking crazy.
11:57 Yeah. I feel like there are country songs about it.
11:59 Toby Keith was singing songs, but like that same thing.
12:01 But like that, everybody had that.
12:03 There are flags everywhere. Yeah.
12:04 And I can't remember.
12:06 We wanted to hunt down and kill everything.
12:09 That was everything in the Middle East.
12:11 Yeah, I'm not. It says all it sounds awful saying that.
12:14 But that's like as a whole, the country is kind of like that.
12:16 Obviously, there were protests on the other side, but like as a whole.
12:19 No, like that's one of those things, too.
12:21 Like when you go back and you look at
12:25 like how like like everything now, it's like you can't get anything done.
12:30 Like everybody's so like, you know, on either side of every issue.
12:34 When you go back and look at like who voted to go to Iraq
12:38 and who voted, you know, to pass the Clintons, everybody, everybody.
12:43 It was like if there's 100 people in the Senate, it was like ninety nine.
12:46 Yeah. So like, right.
12:48 Everyone was like, oh, for fuck this.
12:51 Like, let's go. And and like there was no like
12:55 what do you call that?
12:58 Like the like the loyal opposition, it was just like everybody
13:01 was just kind of on the same same page.
13:03 And then the loyal opposite the opposition, like you were the you were vilified.
13:08 Oh, yeah. And like, do you remember this is like another like
13:10 conspiracy kind of thing?
13:13 I feel like we talked about on a show somewhat recently,
13:15 more like the anthrax attacks.
13:16 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
13:17 Do when when when did we talk about that?
13:19 You could see a white powder in your school.
13:22 It could have been flour in the fucking home ec room.
13:25 And you're like anthrax, anthrax, anthrax.
13:27 Yeah, it was a real thing. It was a real fear.
13:29 I never thought I didn't go that far.
13:31 We were joking about it, but it was like it was.
13:34 But that was I remember being like, I thought that they were
13:38 just be like indiscriminate, like AK47 shootings down
13:42 like Michigan Avenue, schools, malls, things like that.
13:46 And I thought that anthrax attacks would be like a big thing.
13:48 But the reason I brought that up is because like the two senators
13:53 who were like targeted in that were like the two senators who were like,
13:58 let's pump the brakes on this Patriot Act thing.
14:00 Right. This is like we got to like I know this is like war times
14:03 and everybody's going crazy and rightfully so.
14:05 But we got to hold on and see if we want to just green light
14:08 spying on American citizens forever.
14:11 And then they got the anthrax and they shut the fuck up.
14:14 They passed that bill.
14:15 And then they like years later, you trace it back.
14:17 Like where did that at?
14:18 Weapons probably came from a U.S. military institution.
14:21 Yeah, probably. No, not probably.
14:23 Well, there's I've never heard this. Yeah.
14:26 Yeah. So it's like that's where they found it.
14:28 That's like because there was only one there.
14:30 I can't remember exactly how they like linked it there.
14:33 But there was only being manufactured in like one place.
14:35 And there were like indicators.
14:37 It was like, oh, yeah, like this definitely came from this place.
14:39 So it was. But that was it was like everything was so fucking scary.
14:45 And and yeah, anthrax, like I really thought that that was going to be
14:51 and the the country went crazy, the world went the world went crazy.
14:55 I do remember my my dad did set me down.
14:58 It was like a real conversation.
15:00 Like, yeah, I don't know if you're going to get drafted,
15:01 but your cousins probably will be really.
15:04 Yeah. Like one of those. Yeah.
15:05 I didn't know. But like you were just like, it's possible that that might get,
15:08 you know, totally because it shipped off to war.
15:11 Yeah. And it was like a draft.
15:13 Like there's a possibility.
15:14 And it was like it was like the fog of war.
15:17 Like you like your dad's like justifiably.
15:20 No, that was a crazy take it all.
15:22 Yeah. That wasn't crazy at all.
15:23 Because it definitely.
15:24 Yeah. And I don't think you're saying that's like scare me.
15:26 No, very much a real like, hey, yeah, sitting you down and being like, hey,
15:29 like I mean, he probably how old your dad.
15:31 He is sixty five now.
15:33 OK, so he didn't experience that with with Nam personally.
15:36 But does he have like older siblings?
15:37 No, like my dad, 68 or 69.
15:41 He was like like he was like, I got to go to college so I don't have to go to
15:44 go to Vietnam.
15:45 And I think they might have like because that was like an out
15:48 by the time my dad was 18.
15:50 Like if you were going to college, they they didn't send you, which looking back,
15:56 which my dad grew up very poor, too.
15:58 But like that's the thing that is like targeted at poor people.
16:01 Like, oh, you're you're smart and wealthy enough to go to college.
16:04 Well, then you don't have to go fight and die in this war.
16:06 But if you're some fucking poor kid, you're going like that.
16:09 Sorry, that's crazy that they made that distinction in Vietnam
16:13 where it's like, oh, if you have if you have any sort of like, quote unquote,
16:17 real future, you don't have to go to war.
16:19 That is preposterous.
16:21 But that is. Yeah.
16:23 Like you're saying, like they and it ended up being a 20 year war.
16:27 So if things had gone differently policy wise,
16:31 it's not inconceivable that we all could have been over there.
16:35 Yeah, it's crazy. It is, man.
16:37 It is. It's crazy how much time has gone by.
16:40 It's crazy.
16:42 The more and more people that, you know, you get to know that there's
16:46 I mean, there's people in this office that just don't remember it.
16:48 Yeah, my brother doesn't.
16:50 No, not at all. Yeah.
16:51 Well, that's like my barometer for if you're young or not is if you remember 9/11.
16:55 Yeah. He smokes is 24.
16:56 Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
16:57 And if you not a clue.
16:58 Yeah. And my brother, too, like he's if I he was four or five,
17:03 you know, when that happened.
17:04 So that is a thing.
17:07 And it's and it is weird because I really do think that it's still
17:11 really informs and covers like my my worldview a lot.
17:16 You know, like it's like people are conspiracy theorists.
17:19 They're this. You're that. Well, it's like,
17:22 I don't know how if you live through 9/11,
17:26 the buildup to the Iraq war with WMD, the financial crisis and then covid,
17:32 which there's questions and like sometimes just fucking outright lies
17:39 like the WMD in Iraq that they sold to the American people that it's like,
17:44 well, why would I fucking believe anything anybody says?
17:47 Which is why I'd never like, you know, like I
17:49 I just don't believe it.
17:50 I just don't in general believe it.
17:52 And then it's like as more and more things come out about like the 9/11
17:56 commission and who knew what and what the plans were like I was sent.
18:00 Should I play that? Have you heard this?
18:02 You know who Wesley Clark is? Do you remember that name?
18:04 Why do I remember that name?
18:06 So Wesley Clark was a four star general and he in like the 90s.
18:11 I think he was in Desert Storm and stuff like that.
18:13 And then he ran for president like he was on the debate stage as a Democrat.
18:18 It might have been like the oh for John Kerry. OK.
18:21 It might have been or maybe 2008 against Obama, but like in our lifetime,
18:26 like like in our life, like I think I can just Google that.
18:31 But then he has this clip.
18:34 Where he's talking about, like, what's going on in the Pentagon, he was 2004.
18:43 OK, so I sent this to Ed.
18:46 I'll just play it into the microphone this morning.
18:49 Because it's like wild the way that I 11, I went through the Pentagon
18:58 and I saw Secretary Rumsfeld and one of the generals called me and he said, sir,
19:01 you got to come in and talk to me a second.
19:03 I said, well, you're too busy.
19:03 He said, no, no.
19:04 He says, we've made the decision we're going to war with Iraq.
19:08 I said, we're going to war with Iraq. Why?
19:10 He said, I don't know.
19:13 He said, I guess they don't know what else to do.
19:15 I said, well, did they find some information connecting Saddam to Al Qaeda?
19:18 He said, no, no.
19:19 He says there's nothing new that way.
19:21 They just made the decision to go to war with Iraq.
19:23 He said, I guess it's like we don't know what to do about terrorists,
19:27 but we've got a good military and we can take down governments.
19:29 So I came back to see him a few weeks later.
19:32 And by that time we were bombing in Afghanistan.
19:34 I said, are we still going to war with Iraq?
19:36 And he said, oh, it's worse than that.
19:37 He said, I just got this down from upstairs, meaning the secretary
19:40 defense office today.
19:41 And he said, this is a memo that describes how we're going to take out
19:43 seven countries in five years, starting with Iraq and then Syria, Lebanon,
19:48 Libya, Somalia, Sudan, and finishing off Iran.
19:50 I said, is it classified?
19:52 He said, yes, sir.
19:54 I said, well, don't show it to him.
19:57 So like, isn't that.
20:00 Had you ever heard that before?
20:01 No, I had never heard that.
20:02 So I mean, that's like a like that's not some crackpot.
20:05 That's Wesley Clark, four star general and a guy who is a viable candidate
20:10 for the president United States in 2004.
20:13 So and that's what it's like, you know, the fog of war.
20:16 And you see like Colin Powell get up in front of the U.N.
20:18 and be like, they're making this shit a little vial of anthrax.
20:21 And it's like, so we better go get Iraq.
20:24 Because what was what was like the the Condoleezza Rice?
20:27 So we don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud.
20:30 And it's like, that's fucking good logic.
20:32 Like, you know, we haven't found anything.
20:33 There's no evidence.
20:35 But we don't want the first bit of evidence to be a new, you know,
20:38 a dirty bomb going off in New York City or Chicago or anywhere else.
20:41 So we better go get them before they get us.
20:43 But then you hear like Wesley Clark.
20:45 And I was just like, you know what?
20:46 Like, let's just fucking turn the Middle East over.
20:49 And they did Iraq.
20:51 They did Afghanistan.
20:52 They did.
20:53 They eventually did Libya.
20:54 Syria has been in civil war for forever.
20:56 Like they kind of they did a lot of those.
20:58 And you wonder if things had gone, quote unquote, better in Iraq
21:03 if they would have just kept on mowing people down.
21:05 But Iraq turned into such a it was just it was shit show.
21:08 Quagmire is not. Yeah. Yeah.
21:11 And then and then
21:13 Afghanistan was longer somehow, you know, like they had to do Iraq twice
21:18 because, you know, they like pulled out in a haste.
21:20 That was like Obama saying, we're going to we're going to do the good war,
21:24 which was Afghanistan.
21:25 Somehow Afghanistan was the good war.
21:27 And Iraq was like, we never should have done that.
21:30 And like I voted against it.
21:31 So we're going to try to pull out of there.
21:33 They pull out of there.
21:33 I mean, who fucking knows?
21:36 But and it's like, well, then ISIS pops up and it's like we find out.
21:40 How did ISIS start?
21:40 Well, we're funding some of their factions to go fight in Syria.
21:44 And then they got out of control and spilled over.
21:46 It's just like all the things that you.
21:49 So then we had to go back into Iraq and fight ISIS.
21:52 And it's just like this is this is fucking insanity that it all started
21:56 with this thing in 9/11.
21:58 And it's and that was I remember being a kid, being like,
22:01 they had 19 guys or Saudis who were going to war.
22:05 Right now, I remember thinking that, too, like it.
22:07 And obviously, with social media and the Internet,
22:12 information is widely available now that wasn't back in 2001.
22:16 But I remember specifically thinking to myself exactly what you just said, like.
22:21 What does Iraq have to do with it if everybody says they're from Afghanistan
22:26 and Saudi Arabia and and Kurdistan, maybe,
22:30 which isn't even fucking a country, but like.
22:34 Why were we there?
22:35 Why were they in Iraq?
22:36 Yeah, well, it was like a WMD program.
22:38 And it's just like I think that they just they scoured.
22:41 That's what they said.
22:42 Single fucking inch of that country looking.
22:44 No, nothing.
22:45 No, no.
22:47 And it was, you know, tore that whole place apart.
22:50 Not that Saddam and his sons were good people, but it's like
22:53 they're pretty bad people.
22:54 They're awful people.
22:56 Horrible people. Yeah.
22:57 Yeah. But then there's like that other like that other clip.
23:01 Like, but he was our guy in the 80s.
23:03 He was, you know, when because he was fighting Iran.
23:06 And there's that clip of Donald Rumsfeld where he in the 80s,
23:10 because Rumsfeld had some cabinet position for Reagan.
23:14 So he was over there and talking and meeting Saddam and.
23:18 And he was there like four times in a three year period.
23:21 Yeah. And he was like he would he was singing Saddam's praises like he's
23:25 you know, because they were Iran was like the theocracy, right?
23:29 We're like, oh, the extremists, Islam versus Christianity.
23:33 Right. And they're like, this guy's a secular guy.
23:35 Like he's women's rights.
23:37 Yeah. We're more.
23:38 He was more progressive.
23:39 He was this he was more more our kind of guy is basically.
23:42 And then you then he does like the Gulf War.
23:45 And then there's like evidence that was like, yeah, like we'll like we're
23:48 Saddam basically maybe thought that we'd look the other way
23:51 on the Gulf War because they were like, you know, and then then he was like,
23:55 oh, shit, like now it's like we're in trouble.
23:58 And there's people who are like, you know, after the Cold War, the military got
24:01 like, you know, like, what do we do now?
24:03 You know, like there's no more there's no more big boogeyman.
24:07 So they better dream one up.
24:09 And it be, you know, they that's like the speculation.
24:12 Who knows? But it was it was it's been I don't know.
24:16 It's that's where people are like, well, why don't you believe anything?
24:20 It's because of these like seminal things where it's like they they lied to us.
24:24 Yeah. Which is interesting, because starting before the podcast,
24:26 you were saying it made you more nationalistic.
24:28 And that's where you guys were like, oh, you weren't butting heads.
24:31 Yeah. And you probably you would like, there's a lot of reason.
24:35 I love America. Yeah, there's a lot.
24:36 Yeah. You know, it's just like 9/11.
24:39 Like it's so I went on zero zero blog.
24:44 I was going to see zero dark zero blog 32 weeks ago, I think it was.
24:47 And Chaps asked me a question from my perspective, why he thinks
24:54 or why I think that numbers are so down in the military.
25:00 And I and I like I didn't know he was asking a question.
25:04 I didn't have a computer in front of me or anything.
25:06 And I'm like, well, honestly, it's like I remember growing up,
25:10 especially after 2011, it was like America.
25:14 Rah, rah. Like we're better than you were the best country on Earth.
25:17 Now it's like. Somewhere along that's that.
25:21 Not to say anything changed for me personally,
25:23 but somewhere along the lines that flipped to like America, like has all these issues.
25:28 Like there's not a lot of pride in being an American right now.
25:31 And but I think on on one day and one day only take take away everything that you just said,
25:37 like three thousand people died in that attack.
25:40 Yeah. And that was a direct attack on our democracy and our freedoms and our country.
25:46 And I think for one day and one day only you wake up and you're like,
25:49 we got things going pretty well here.
25:52 You I think, yeah, there's two sides to the same coin where it's like we need to have a greater
25:57 we need to have more gratitude for being born on this patch of earth and act accordingly.
26:03 Which is why the people I forget which year it was.
26:06 It was a couple of years ago.
26:07 But I remember there was a big thing on Twitter where people like the people
26:12 that hate America were like shitting on people who cared about 9/11.
26:17 Do you remember that? I don't.
26:18 That's fucking crazy.
26:19 It was like it was like it's fucked up.
26:22 Yeah, it is. Yeah, it is.
26:23 Like you read largest blog.
26:25 I don't care who you vote for, what country you're from.
26:27 If you fucking hate the West or if you don't.
26:29 That's a human being. That's a human being.
26:32 Yeah. And that's like St.
26:34 Anne's. That's her father.
26:35 You know, like that's like it is no matter how you slice it, it is it.
26:39 It is a tragedy.
26:40 Anytime that many people die, you know, innocent people die all at once, you know.
26:46 And it's like and it is something that is scarred and burned.
26:50 Like those images are never going to leave anybody's brain.
26:53 Even like I'm sure Nikki Smokes, who's, you know, a kid.
26:57 I'm sure he like has like he knows all the images of it.
27:01 But it was just a weird thing to be like conscious of it or aware of it
27:04 while it while it was going on.
27:06 But it is, you know, there it is.
27:09 You know, and it's just like all the little things like, you know,
27:12 you travel through the airport now, like our security line in Chicago
27:15 and Denver was like fucking forever.
27:17 If you watch movies from the early mid and early 90s, you just walk right up
27:21 to the guy. I swear to God it was it was
27:23 it was the it was Christmas 2000.
27:27 My dad has been on a plane one time ever, ever.
27:31 It was we had Christmas, my grandparents in New Jersey.
27:34 And I don't know why, but my my dad had to fly there.
27:38 Otherwise he was going to miss Christmas.
27:39 And he's like, I'm missing Christmas because he doesn't fly.
27:41 And my afraid he terrified of the plane.
27:45 Maybe that's where you terrified of.
27:47 Oh, it's every male in my family. I've said that.
27:49 OK. Aside from me and my brother, my brother, he's probably better than I am.
27:53 But my dad's you're fine flying, though.
27:55 Flying I can do. But like nobody on my dad's side.
27:58 All the men don't fly. Anyways, it was that it was Christmas 2000.
28:02 And we met my dad at the at the gate.
28:05 And he had a my my dad doesn't drink hard shit.
28:08 He doesn't make a mixer or a cocktail or anything.
28:10 He had a fucking empty bottle of Jack Daniels on him.
28:13 Who? Yeah. And he brought it on a plane with them.
28:17 And he just fucking slammed it. Really?
28:19 Yeah. Now you can't do that anymore.
28:21 See that I don't remember at all. OK. I don't remember flying.
28:24 I have like I don't know how many times I flew pre 9/11.
28:28 What was it like?
28:31 You try to remember.
28:33 There was like metal detectors and shit, but there were. Yeah.
28:35 But it was, you know, you just went to the gate. Yeah.
28:38 Like you picked your family up at the gate with like, you know,
28:42 if you were a limo driver, they had all the signs out there.
28:44 So I used to they let people who didn't have a ticket through. Yes.
28:47 Yeah. And that's that's probably that.
28:50 I remember that better, actually, because I
28:52 I did fly at least a couple of times before 9/11.
28:56 But my cousin, Michael, he would always come
29:00 stay with us for like two weeks in the summer, maybe even longer.
29:03 And we would pick him up at the airport.
29:05 But he would be like a seven year old kid.
29:07 And like he's a month younger than me.
29:08 So I remember like every summer we'd go in like because he was a minor,
29:12 you know, like, you know, you don't want the minor just walk through an airport.
29:16 So we would meet him at the gate
29:17 and like the flight attendant would like help him off the plane.
29:20 And then we would meet him at the gate.
29:22 But we didn't go through any security.
29:24 Yeah. You just go. You just go right there.
29:26 Now it's like, you know, they got to
29:30 because they were like the shoe bomber guy, too.
29:33 Like that's why you do you remember that guy?
29:35 Was that was that Ramsey Yusef?
29:37 I can't remember that guy's name, but there was like you remember the shoe bomber?
29:39 His he got through.
29:41 I forget his name.
29:43 His shoe started smoking.
29:44 He's he had hid like plastic explosives in the soles of his shoes.
29:49 So that's why they started making you take off your shoes
29:51 and putting those through the X-ray machine, too,
29:53 because it was like they he found the crack, the crack in the system.
29:56 Which interesting.
29:57 Was it ever disclosed what happened with the liquids thing?
30:03 I think that that was like the wire.
30:05 It has to be a four ounce thing.
30:06 Yeah. Because remember, I remember that.
30:08 I remember when that changed.
30:09 Remember that was a whole big thing.
30:11 And people were just leaving fucking big ass bottles of shampoo
30:15 like behind the shampoo that motion.
30:18 It would just be a plethora of items just left behind that people are like
30:22 up in arms about now, obviously.
30:24 Yeah, I don't I don't know.
30:26 Like you think they made a stop?
30:27 Is that what you're saying?
30:28 They made a stop. Yeah.
30:29 But I don't recall why.
30:31 I know. Specific. Yeah. Yeah.
30:33 Like what? Like what did they wasn't there a diaper guy, too?
30:36 Wasn't there a guy?
30:37 Yeah. I feel like they had like a couple of like like someone's definitely
30:41 covered what was brewing to make them stop.
30:45 But yeah, nothing went through like the shoe bomber or smoking shoe.
30:48 But someone definitely called tackled.
30:51 Yeah, they definitely caught wind of something about to do some with aerosol.
30:54 Yeah. Or or anything over.
30:56 And maybe they just determined that like.
30:58 Doesn't matter what it is below, maybe below four ounces,
31:03 but but could have been like, all right, this is below four ounces.
31:06 We know that this type of explosive has to be six ounces or more.
31:09 You know, like I'm making that up, but like that could make
31:11 that makes that makes sense to me.
31:13 Yeah. But in my head, like there had to be a big tip off about like.
31:17 Probably it could be someone building something with.
31:20 Yeah. Liquid. Yeah.
31:22 Yeah. I saw this clip the other day to going back.
31:25 It was like, you know, we did catch bin Laden.
31:27 Eventually, there's all sorts of this is like this is what I mean.
31:31 Like as these families are suing for information.
31:34 Now there's been like disclosure that like Pakistan.
31:38 Remember, there was like, oh, we couldn't tell him it was,
31:40 you know, the zero dark 30 movie like you can't tip him off.
31:43 Now there's like Musharraf and like their their heart,
31:47 who was the president at the time and their third.
31:50 They have called the ISI, which is their version of the CIA in Pakistan,
31:54 that they like knew where he was for a year.
31:57 Like there's there's plenty of evidence.
31:59 I remember watching that Sunday night baseball game
32:01 was like May 11th or something like that.
32:04 When 12 Obama was reported as shot dead and Osama.
32:10 What did I say? Obama.
32:12 Did I? Yep.
32:13 Osama Osama bin Laden was shot dead.
32:16 That was not a Freudian slip.
32:18 Um, yeah, no, I lost my train of thought.
32:20 And he's like, you're watching Sunday night baseball.
32:22 I'm as Freudian. Yeah.
32:24 Officially, not but not really.
32:26 So anyways, you're watching Sunday baseball.
32:29 Osama was shot.
32:31 And I remember thinking like Pakistan's got a lot of fucking
32:34 questions answered right now and doesn't seem like they kind of ever were.
32:37 Well, the narrative was that they traced his couriers,
32:42 a whole zero blog 30 and dark.
32:45 Yes. Zero dark 30. Sorry.
32:47 And they trace his couriers and they like let him back.
32:50 And it was like all the spy craft and this and that.
32:53 And, you know, they couldn't let Pakistan know where he was
32:58 or that they were coming because they might tip them off and move them
33:03 because reasonable suspicion.
33:06 He's in he's like a mile down the road from their version of West Point.
33:11 Right. So how do you know that now that what there's speculation on
33:16 and there's documents, people can Google this, whereas like
33:18 you had high ranking people that are saying like, we knew he was.
33:21 We were waiting for the US to cut a deal, like cut us a deal.
33:25 Like, we'll turn them right over to you.
33:26 But that they didn't end up doing that.
33:28 But they supposedly like the reason like the helicopters got there
33:31 without any problems or anything is Pakistan.
33:33 No, it's like, hey, like we're coming here. Airspace.
33:35 So now it's like the narrative is flipped and it's like, I don't know what the truth is.
33:39 But there are there are people saying that now that Pakistan knew where he was
33:44 and they knew the United States was coming.
33:45 And it was just like there was all part of this, you know, the grant, you know, this
33:50 I don't know. They wanted the Navy SEALs go in there and do it.
33:52 You know, like they wanted that as opposed to like here.
33:55 Pakistan has them turn them over in hand.
33:56 I can't. I like that, too, though.
33:59 I'd rather just get them.
34:00 I'd rather have, you know, like all is well that ends well and well.
34:03 Yeah. Trial would have been interesting.
34:06 That would have been interesting. Yeah.
34:08 Do you think you would have made it to trial?
34:10 That would have been me.
34:13 No, I don't think you would have made it to trial.
34:14 How how would you like to be the the guy in charge of
34:20 protecting or even defending in court of some of bin Laden?
34:23 That's for a lot of people, though.
34:29 Yeah. About any any.
34:31 Yeah. He's done something vile.
34:33 Yeah. Yeah. Like there's there's more people than Osama.
34:36 Totally. And I wonder about that question.
34:38 But it's a good question.
34:39 I mean, you have one of them on the show.
34:41 Yeah. John Wayne Gacy's guy. Yeah. Yeah.
34:43 I put that back to the fuck out of his answer, too.
34:46 Yeah. But what did he say?
34:47 Because that's to me, like that's one of those things that makes America great.
34:50 It's awesome. And that's like, ah, yeah.
34:53 But Windsor, I mean, you should.
34:55 I know. But that's like, yeah, like whatever.
34:57 The the the idea of a, you know, a more perfect union is like that.
35:03 We have to be you and I want to just fucking murder him.
35:06 But we should be subservient to like a higher ideal.
35:10 Yeah. So like the collective has to be like the right thing to do.
35:14 Yeah. Everybody wants to string them up by his neck. Right.
35:17 I remember being like, we should just let Roger Clemens throw fastballs at him.
35:20 Like, yeah, that was like a legitimate thought that I had.
35:23 Like, should you know, what should we do?
35:24 Just have like that would be the most American thing ever.
35:26 Just have our big arm pitchers from Texas go down there and throw fastballs
35:29 at these guys ribs.
35:31 And that was, you know, 16 year old me thinking that it's a little different now.
35:36 But that is like we should be we should have a higher ideal
35:39 so that individuals like you and I or most of the country
35:43 don't want to just do something rash.
35:45 I mean, and that's what would have happened, I'm sure.
35:48 However, yeah, I would have.
35:50 But you're going to be in the same room with them.
35:52 Yeah. With a handgun, you know?
35:55 Yeah. Yeah. But that, you know, can't have a crazy shit, man.
35:59 Just like and it's not even that like.
36:02 I felt like Europe got like a ton of, you know, like that, like their attacks.
36:06 And it's just like, oh, that's why that's why Spain, you know, we had like that.
36:10 You know, we had more of a NATO coalition for Afghanistan.
36:15 Then. Yeah, it was just us.
36:17 Britain and Australia.
36:19 It was more than that.
36:20 But like those are the big ones.
36:22 But everybody was in. Yeah.
36:24 Because I think it did.
36:25 It was it was Article five of.
36:27 Explain that like I'm fucking five, because I have to.
36:32 If article NATO countries.
36:34 Yes. All of everyone.
36:35 Go. I said there was more.
36:37 There was more of a response.
36:38 No, no, no. So.
36:39 So in Iraq, Dave Davis saying in Iraq who came with us like we had a coalition,
36:43 but it was like, all right.
36:44 You know, like it wasn't the whole world.
36:45 It was all. OK.
36:46 So in Australia, amongst a few others, Afghanistan is the only time of the NATO
36:51 alliance, which, you know, it has like its own constitution.
36:53 It was the only time and it's been in existence, I think, since forty nine,
36:57 forty something like that, you know, Cold War,
37:00 where was the only time that that Article five was exercise being like, hey,
37:05 because it was if you're attacked, we're all attacked.
37:07 So we were all attacked.
37:08 OK, then they had a train in Spain, right?
37:13 They killed 200 people, the suicide bomber that you were talking about.
37:17 Don't you?
37:18 Right. There was one in Nice, France.
37:20 I remember Nice. Yeah.
37:22 It's a nice place, though.
37:23 And they had the air one in London.
37:25 But but Spain was like, you know, they whoever was OK to whoever claimed
37:31 hey, like we're doing this because you're supporting this war.
37:35 Spain just was like, all right, we're out.
37:37 And they pulled all their like active military troops out at that point
37:42 because they're like, well, we we don't want anything to do with this.
37:45 And then London had the bus bombings.
37:47 I think in those they had a bunch of them. Yeah.
37:50 But it was yeah, like Europe,
37:54 Europe had Europe went through it to France.
37:57 France got it. I don't know about Nice, but it was not like it was more ISIS.
38:01 Remember they had like 2014.
38:03 I feel like they were they had all the shootings and bombings in Paris.
38:06 Like that was fucking wild thing.
38:08 Was that something that was London?
38:10 Yeah, I would. London had a bus.
38:12 There's probably more than one bus.
38:14 Yeah. On the evening of
38:16 July 14, 2016, a 19 ton cargo truck deliberately was driven into crowds.
38:21 Oh, that too.
38:23 That was six people died. Yeah.
38:25 And four hundred thirty four other were injured.
38:28 That was the thing when I go in full circle back to when I was a kid being like
38:32 that type of attack, if you just have a random person with a gun
38:37 or driving a truck into crowds or whatever,
38:41 that is impossible to stop.
38:43 I was thinking that that would just be a thing every day.
38:45 That's like that was one of those things where, yeah, like you change the way
38:50 you live, obviously, that's like the biggest moment in American history.
38:52 But I remember going through, you know, just shit that was happening
38:56 in Europe and everything that scared the fuck out of me.
38:59 Yeah. Well, because I think France was playing Germany
39:02 and some kind of soccer friendly and they like bomb the stadium.
39:04 They like bombed outside this like you can.
39:06 And then like you're watching the broadcast and you hear this boom
39:09 like outside the stadium.
39:11 And that was like a coordinated thing where they hit up restaurants.
39:15 They hit the stadium.
39:16 They hit like me three, five different places across Paris that one night.
39:21 And it was, you know, it was all, you know, ISIS related.
39:24 And then they had the Charlie Hebdo thing.
39:26 Remember that? That was fucking scary, too. I do.
39:29 Yeah. So do you remember that Charlie Hebdo?
39:30 Charlie Hebdo was like a satirical cartoonist.
39:33 Yeah. Satirical cartoon magazine.
39:36 And they drew they had an image of Hamid.
39:38 Yeah. Yes. Now I remember.
39:40 And they, yes, you know, went in like murdered everybody on staff.
39:44 Yeah. It was like, holy fuck.
39:46 And and but it was like the whole like it wasn't a quote unquote
39:50 World War, like total war the way that World War Two was. But like.
39:53 It was it had felt like there were axis's that, you know,
39:59 like the West first, the Middle East, and I'm sure they felt like it, too.
40:03 And and it's like, you know, I was I told you to listen to that podcast.
40:07 I'm in the middle of it right now.
40:09 Did you get to the part in the 90s where who was the
40:12 who is the secretary of state back then?
40:15 It was a woman. She was foreign.
40:17 Foreign born.
40:19 I know what's her fucking. Hold on.
40:22 It was not Janet Reno is somebody else.
40:25 But anyway, so she was doing this press conference
40:28 and they're talking and someone asked her about the sanctions
40:31 against Iraq in the 90s and.
40:35 They're Madeline Madeline Albright, Madeline Albright.
40:37 And Madeline, someone was like, well, you know, there's speculation that,
40:41 you know, people are in Iraq are saying not even speculation,
40:44 but there are reports in Iraq saying that these these sanctions have caused
40:48 the deaths of like 500000 Iraqis, Iraqi children, because they're like,
40:53 hey, you can't get food in. You can't.
40:55 You know, and what did her response was?
40:57 This is Hillary Clinton, correct? No, this is this is Madeline.
41:00 OK, now I remember.
41:01 Secretary of State under Clinton.
41:03 She corrects them. So it's not it's not.
41:06 No, we don't agree with that estimate.
41:07 500 is more like two hundred fifty thousand.
41:10 The two hundred fifty thousand dead children because of sanctions.
41:13 And it's like she's like, yeah, that's a number we're comfortable with.
41:16 So it could have been more.
41:18 But the secretary of state was like our pot.
41:20 We're comfortable with a policy
41:22 that has led to the death and starvation of two hundred and fifty thousand
41:26 children. That is fucking.
41:28 And it was just like on to the next day.
41:31 Like it's like we're, you know, and rightfully like three
41:35 three thousand, you know, people in 9/11.
41:40 But it's like we just we had policies that were like, you know, the
41:43 the number one
41:44 person about foreign affairs in the country, Madeline Albright,
41:49 secretary of state being like, yeah, we're comfortable with a policy
41:52 that killed two hundred fifty thousand kids.
41:54 That's fucking crazy that that's not talked about more.
41:56 And it is this has been like, you know, I'm reading that book.
42:00 The fourth turning, you know, are we did that?
42:03 What was the name of that? The first book?
42:07 The cycles, Mary, like we talked about the Strauss, how Strauss, how?
42:11 So Strauss died in 2007, I think.
42:14 So how wrote about the crisis that we're in now saying it goes to twenty thirty five
42:20 based on like his timelines.
42:24 And it's like there's so many things that like he predicted and got right.
42:28 And it was just like this is this is like a storm that's brewing.
42:31 And like we are still like in this crisis period.
42:33 And he argues that it started
42:36 when the market crashed in a way.
42:41 I feels like we've been pushing towards this like since the
42:44 since the early 90s, where it's just like we're like
42:48 since really the end of the Cold War, or it's just like we've been motoring
42:51 through, like we're just everything is just fucking in decay and violence
42:55 everywhere. And it's just it is.
42:57 I don't know. It's a scary time.
42:58 It's a scary time to be alive.
43:00 It is. And if also like.
43:03 I don't want to say this and sound ignorant,
43:07 but it does kind of feel like it's been kind of quiet on which I was just thinking
43:11 about the weirdly.
43:12 On which front, just like something like seriously fucking like scary,
43:16 like I mean, like we just talked about, it's only been two years since we got
43:20 13 soldiers died, 100 percent.
43:23 And that's why I said I want to. Yeah.
43:25 What do you that's not enough, bro?
43:26 Like, you know, I mean, no, no, totally tons of bad stuff that happens.
43:29 Yeah, but I'm not looking around the airport doing, you know,
43:33 ocular pat downs of people as I'm going through, like looking for threats
43:37 the way I was getting on public transit 20 years.
43:40 I was going to say that I the very first time I flew back from the East Coast,
43:46 it was for football and I was flying alone and there were Arabic people
43:50 on my flight and I was like 12, 13 years old, ready fucking to go
43:54 because that was the distinction you drew.
43:56 Yeah, it's sad that that's the truth.
43:58 Well, and there was like the flight was a ninety three right in Pennsylvania
44:01 where one of those guys went to Wheaton College. Yeah.
44:04 Really? Yeah. And there was just like, you know, you
44:06 do you know where that plane was going?
44:08 But at the time, yeah, everybody just felt like on guard.
44:11 Everything was tense. Everything was everything was bad.
44:14 And it's a it's a terrible
44:15 state of affairs these days.
44:19 Yeah. But yeah, I definitely was, Dave, I was I was like you.
44:23 I say that. Yes, embarrassed.
44:25 But like I say that because I know that wasn't just me.
44:29 That was the sentiment that was the national narrative
44:33 that we had, unfortunately, you know, very unfortunate.
44:37 And herbal. Yeah. And I mean,
44:41 and of course, domestically, like we do have our issues
44:45 and we got a zillion on there, any of them, especially when it comes
44:49 like scary things that can happen on just your average day of going somewhere.
44:52 So that's that. Yeah.
44:54 Like that. And I guess that's to your, you know, to your other point
44:57 where it's like there hasn't been like a major national terrorist attack,
45:01 but you could call all these things domestic terrorists, you know, like there.
45:05 There's we got so many fucking problem.
45:07 That's what I mean.
45:08 Like it feels like everything is like in decay. Yeah.
45:11 All right, then, man.
45:15 That's it. Thanks for joining, Dave.
45:18 Always a pleasure to talk geopolitical.
45:20 Our foreign correspondent.
45:22 Do you want to know what's going on in Ukraine right now?
45:24 Dave and Alan Williams.
45:26 It's World War one there now. I'm depressed.
45:27 French warfare.
45:29 I got another little fact for you.
45:30 Move an inch this way, inch that way. It's bad.
45:32 Do you want to hear another little fact? Sure.
45:34 Love facts. 2017.
45:37 You can look this up.
45:38 Twenty seventeen.
45:40 We were supplying the Afghan military
45:44 with helicopters, and we ended up, you know,
45:49 so the Pentagon or whoever defense department was buying the helicopters,
45:52 obviously. Right.
45:53 And they ended up buying a fleet of helicopters, Russian helicopters.
45:59 And there was like a, you know, angst or anger, you know,
46:03 and the people bitching about it in Congress being like,
46:06 why the fuck are we spending all this money and just giving it to the Russians?
46:10 You know, like when we buy our own bell helicopter,
46:13 whoever's making helicopters for us now, let's use American ones.
46:15 And they were like, no, look like
46:18 they've been flying Russian built helicopters in Afghanistan for 30
46:22 fucking years now.
46:24 We have pilots who know how to fly these ones.
46:26 They know how to fly them.
46:27 We'll buy them. We'll give them those.
46:28 And they stood their ground.
46:29 They didn't like cave to like the political pressure, like they buy American
46:32 ship, American like they'll be able to these Afghans will be able to use
46:36 the Russian ones better.
46:38 So they buy the Russian ones.
46:41 That since then, do you know where those that same fleet of helicopters are?
46:46 They're being flown by Ukrainians in Ukraine again.
46:50 So it's like a like a full circle, full circle.
46:53 So now it's like we we originally like we're funding people, you know,
46:57 buying things to shoot down these helicopters in the 80s.
46:59 Now we're giving them that.
47:00 Then we bought them and gave them to the people that, you know,
47:03 that we've been fighting theoretically, you know, fighting with against
47:07 who fucking knows, then they turn around and now they sell them to Ukrainians
47:11 and another proxy war.
47:12 And it's just 1984. It's
47:15 Eurasia versus Asia one day.
47:17 What are all the countries in that book?
47:21 No. All right, then.
47:23 Thanks, everybody, for listening.
47:25 Thanks for watching.
47:26 Kind of a depressing episode today, but good talk, though.
47:29 Yeah, necessary. So yeah, good.
47:31 Good conversation.
47:32 See you guys tomorrow.
47:33 Yeah.
47:34 (whooshing)
47:36 [WHOOSH]