All hail Preseason P + Are Celtics deeper than we thought? | First to the Floor
Payton "Preseason P" Pritchard has been absolutely killing it this preseason, and leading the way for a Celtics bench squad we were somewhat trepidatious about just a week ago. On this episode, we rank the Celtics' many backup wings, and continue the evaluation of Kristaps Porzingis and Jrue Holiday.
Plus, is it time to reset the conversation around Jaylen Brown?
#nba
#bostonceltics
Plus, is it time to reset the conversation around Jaylen Brown?
#nba
#bostonceltics
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SportsTranscript
00:00 (upbeat music)
00:02 (upbeat music)
00:05 (upbeat music)
00:10 - Who is gonna be first to the floor here?
00:15 And it is Marcus Short as he usually is.
00:18 - As he drives, slam on the ground.
00:21 - It's not the first time we've seen a superstar
00:24 in many ways, start to fight the body.
00:26 - Start again, got the lay, oh!
00:29 (upbeat music)
00:32 (upbeat music)
00:34 - Hey, what's going on?
00:35 Welcome in to another episode of First to the Floor.
00:37 Ben Vallis here, thank you for joining us.
00:39 Hope you're doing well.
00:40 Alongside me, Celtics blog writer and columnist
00:43 and the world's newest Peyton Pritchard stan,
00:45 it's Wayne Spooney.
00:46 Spooney, how's it going, man?
00:47 - I am not the newest Peyton Pritchard stan.
00:49 I've been a Peyton Pritchard stan for a long time, Ben.
00:52 - Forgive me.
00:53 - But I'm doing good, buddy, how are you?
00:55 - Doing great, doing great.
00:56 It's things are heating up here in Australia
00:58 as we head into summer and things are heating up
01:00 with the Celtics as pre-season is well underway.
01:03 Before we get into that, have you got a column
01:06 coming out this week, Spooney, for Celtics blog?
01:08 - I do, I got my new weekly column,
01:11 the Three Leaf Clover, should be dropping tomorrow,
01:14 talking about Pritchard's playmaking, the triple P,
01:17 Peyton Pritchard playmaking, Svea Mahalik,
01:21 just knowing how to play offense,
01:23 and in defense of Derek White, not making the top 100,
01:27 where I put ESPN on a list,
01:30 and it's a list you do not want to be on.
01:32 - Do you know who did make the top 100?
01:35 Tobias Harris. - Brent Williams.
01:37 - Yeah. (laughs)
01:39 These guys, unbelievable, ESPN, absolutely unforgivable,
01:42 but we'll get to that maybe a little bit later
01:45 if we've got time.
01:45 So you mentioned it, Spooney, Peyton Pritchard,
01:48 obviously the story of the pre-season so far,
01:50 but we're gonna start with someone who might/should be
01:53 the story of the regular season,
01:55 and please God, the playoffs and the finals,
01:57 if we're blessed, Chris Dapps Porzingis.
02:00 What are your early takes on Porzingis
02:02 early in the pre-season here, Spooney?
02:04 - So I'm gonna start with offense,
02:06 because I had no concerns offensively with Porzingis,
02:10 and I feel like he's been as advertised offensively,
02:14 14, five boards, 58, 80% from three,
02:19 which is probably unsustainable, but it'd be great.
02:24 - Yeah, it'd be great if he sustained it.
02:26 But just burying deep shots, quick trigger at seven foot three
02:31 it's absolutely unguardable, 71% from the line,
02:35 which is a little low, I think that'll go up,
02:37 but he's getting to the line often.
02:41 And last year, outside of the Jays,
02:43 nobody on the Celtics got to the line.
02:45 I'm pretty sure Horford took 43 throws last year.
02:49 So maybe the one downside of his offensive game,
02:52 three turnovers per game in like 20 something minutes,
02:56 but super small sample size, not real concerned about that.
03:01 But I think offensively,
03:04 it's everything we hoped and dreamed.
03:06 Like he's flashing that mid post game.
03:09 He had that insane like fake tripped up Philly defender
03:14 dunked on him, quick trigger threes.
03:16 I mean, it's been basically everything.
03:18 The pick and roll with him in the Jays in that first game
03:21 just looked like unstoppable, especially with Tatum.
03:25 Him and Derek White seemed to have some chemistry
03:28 in our offense seems to really revolve around him
03:31 in a way I haven't seen since young Horford.
03:35 Remember when we first got Horford
03:36 and it was like Horford pick and roll, Horford handoffs.
03:39 Like it was just, Horford just had the ball.
03:41 He averaged five assists a game, you know?
03:44 And that's what it feels like to KP.
03:45 Like he's setting the down screen as the primary action.
03:48 He's running the pick and roll.
03:49 So offensively, it's been awesome.
03:52 - Yeah, you wouldn't-- - My concern,
03:53 go ahead, go ahead.
03:54 - Sorry, go ahead.
03:55 I wanna hear your concern.
03:57 - My concern was defensively
03:59 and he's erasing a lot of it.
04:02 We have 100.0 defensive rating in his minutes,
04:06 which would by far lead the league, not even close.
04:11 He's a plus 8.9 net rating,
04:14 but we saw Tyrese Maxey,
04:18 like a guy who can pull up against that drop
04:21 and make shots is a little terrifying.
04:24 So defensively, there's gonna be a weakness.
04:29 We know it, we've talked about it before,
04:32 but I feel like his rim protection
04:33 has been completely on point.
04:35 I feel like he's been doing a great job,
04:37 mostly other than maybe that first game
04:39 on the defensive glass.
04:40 So I'm extremely happy with poor Zingas overall.
04:44 - Yeah, he seemed a little bit more dedicated
04:46 on the boards there in this game just going by,
04:49 which was great.
04:50 But yeah, you wouldn't say that he's been dominant,
04:54 but what stands out to me
04:55 is how much of a difference maker he clearly is
04:57 in just two preseason games in super limited minutes
05:02 in these weird, varied lineups
05:04 where we didn't have the Jays in the last game.
05:06 And yet, clearly, like you said,
05:09 he's kind of the fulcrum offensively.
05:11 We saw a couple of plays of just simply dumping the ball
05:14 down low to him in the post.
05:16 And one of those plays,
05:17 he did turn the ball over, unfortunately.
05:19 But what we're seeing,
05:21 like the ball being dumped down to poor Zingas,
05:23 the defense collapsing towards him
05:25 and unlimited kickout opportunities, which is fantastic.
05:29 Also, you mentioned it,
05:30 the pick and roll chemistry with Derek White
05:33 seems to just be this naturally occurring thing
05:35 that is required almost no...
05:36 I'm sure they're practicing like crazy
05:38 in the hour back center there,
05:39 but that's just a really nice thing to see as well.
05:42 Getting to the line, it's just amazing.
05:45 I can't believe how quickly it's come to fruition.
05:49 I'm just like, yes, he is the difference maker.
05:51 And unfortunately, the whole thing, as we've said,
05:53 is going to hinge on health,
05:57 which is just going to be a point of stress
05:59 for us all season.
06:02 Our guy, Nate, on Twitter posted this clip
06:05 of Drew Holiday and poor Zingas running pick and roll.
06:08 And as we play it here on the YouTube stream,
06:10 you just watch as poor Zingas rolls here,
06:12 the entire Philadelphia defense collapses,
06:15 leaving Al Horford wide open for three.
06:16 If you think about the personnel on this team,
06:18 and we're going to get to those guys,
06:20 particularly the bench personnel
06:21 and all the three-point shooting prowess there,
06:24 that is so exciting.
06:25 And that play is without the Jays on the court.
06:27 Imagine what that is going to look like
06:29 with Jason Tatum and Jay LeBron on the court.
06:31 I've started to tear up here, Spoonie.
06:33 I'm getting crazy, irrationally excited again.
06:35 (both laughing)
06:36 - I think maybe the thing,
06:39 I mean, I know he's seven foot three.
06:42 I know he's athletic,
06:44 but Rob Williams goes out the door
06:46 and my immediate concern is like,
06:48 "Oh my God, we lost the vertical spacer."
06:51 No, we didn't.
06:52 We have a seven foot three dude who's athletic.
06:55 Like that one-handed alley-oop dunk he took down
06:58 from Derek White in that first game was absolutely absurd.
07:02 Like he is Rob Williams rolling to the rim.
07:05 He does not have the passing chops that Rob does,
07:08 but he can roll to the rim in the same way that Rob does.
07:11 And he can shoot threes.
07:14 And he can handle the ball.
07:15 Like, how do you guard this guy?
07:17 I know in our Slack Ben that you were commenting
07:20 about how everyone's drooling over Wemby
07:23 and drooling over Chet.
07:26 And you were like, "We've got that guy in his prime."
07:29 Like he was the first unicorn.
07:32 And like, dude, his handle is legit for seven foot three.
07:35 Like it's crazy.
07:37 - It's so good.
07:39 We could just do the Paul Zingas pod, right?
07:40 We could do an hour on Paul Zingas and how hyped we are.
07:44 - The last point I'll say is just,
07:45 it's so nice to have another guy with this much gravity,
07:48 Jays level gravity on the court.
07:50 And that's really like the biggest contributing point
07:53 to everything we're talking about.
07:54 And why we can't wait to see a lot of sample size
07:57 of Paul Zingas on the court with both Jays
07:59 is because that much gravity among that distribution
08:03 of individuals on the court at once
08:05 is the recipe for a spicy, spicy offense.
08:07 So we've seen that really like top to tail
08:10 as far as the lineup is concerned.
08:12 The ball movements looking really impressive so far,
08:14 but we saw that with early Missoula ball last year.
08:17 So we don't want to overreact to that,
08:18 even though I already have in our Slack
08:20 as you pointed out there, Spoonie.
08:22 We want to get to the wings and really just the,
08:25 I guess the bench depth as a whole,
08:28 because we were fortunate enough,
08:30 like if you're a Celtics nerd,
08:31 that second game against the Knicks
08:33 where everyone was rested,
08:35 that's where you really,
08:36 that's a game you can really sink your teeth into
08:38 as a Celtics nerd,
08:38 but all these guys that we've signed
08:40 and we're looking for love,
08:41 we're looking to fall for some of these guys
08:43 and become invested from a fan and perspective
08:45 in some of these players.
08:47 We got to see a good chunk of them
08:48 and some are great, some were not so great.
08:51 Some in Delano Banton's case were great one game
08:54 and terrible the next.
08:55 So Spoonie, you had this great idea
08:57 to rank the wing depth on our bench on this podcast.
09:01 So I want to throw it to you here to kick this one off.
09:04 - Okay, so I think there's two types of rankings
09:09 we could do, right?
09:10 Like who's played the best in preseason
09:13 or who do we think is like ranking like the rotation, right?
09:19 And I think those rankings will come out
09:23 slightly different at the top,
09:25 but otherwise would be the same.
09:27 So I think we should rank like,
09:29 who do we think Missoula trusts the most right now?
09:33 - I agree.
09:34 - Okay, all right.
09:35 So I would have number one, Sam Houser.
09:39 I think he couldn't make a shot those first two games
09:43 and then last night he was much better.
09:45 Defensively, he still looks fine
09:48 and I felt like he's dedicating himself
09:50 to the defensive glass.
09:52 So I have absolutely no concerns about Houser
09:55 and Houser is one of those guys,
09:57 like he's gonna look bad playing in that
10:00 like pickup game style that in that Knicks game
10:04 where it's just like, he's not that type of player, right?
10:07 He's born to play off high gravity wings,
10:11 a high gravity big like Porzingis,
10:13 like that is what he excels at
10:15 when other people take all the defensive presence
10:18 and then he's just wide open and can make shots.
10:21 So I would have Houser number one.
10:24 I think there's one guy that you could argue
10:27 is in contention for that.
10:29 But Ben, do you agree Houser one, if we're Joe Missoula?
10:33 - Houser one, if we're Joe Missoula,
10:35 if we're us also by the sound of it,
10:38 I would say like, and this is where I'm gonna need you
10:40 to like kick me if I'm overreacting
10:42 and I may very well be, folks in the chat,
10:44 feel free to do the same.
10:45 Kind of looked starting caliber last night,
10:48 low level, low level starting caliber,
10:50 but he looked so comfortable out there
10:52 and he was very fluid in all the schemes,
10:54 offensively and defensively.
10:56 The shot was back four of nine from three.
10:58 That shot I think is gonna find its level
11:01 as the season progresses
11:03 and just perfectly adequate defensively,
11:06 which is like, you know, he's not amazing,
11:08 but he's just fine.
11:09 He's at a level, a zero level.
11:11 He's not particularly positive, not particularly negative.
11:13 He's just fine.
11:15 And a guy on that salary at that point in the rotation,
11:19 that's the most that you can ask from him.
11:21 So I think he's delivering on all levels in that sense.
11:24 - Yeah, and he had a nice drive of a close out
11:27 to kick to Porzingis.
11:28 Porzingis was like 30 feet from the hoop
11:30 and still buried the three.
11:32 So like, I don't know how useful that play is
11:34 on a different team, but it's very useful on the Celtics.
11:37 - Dude, baseline drive, kick out, it was awesome.
11:39 - Yeah, no, it was great.
11:41 And that's not something he really did at all last year.
11:44 So I think he's confident
11:47 in that he has a big role on this team.
11:50 He knows it, he's gonna keep firing,
11:52 he's gonna keep playing his game.
11:54 So I think he's my one, if I'm Joe Mazzuola.
11:59 If I'm ranking who's playing great right now,
12:02 or if I'm Joe Mazzuola, I think there's a clear number two.
12:07 I think it's Sfee Mihaluk.
12:09 Sfee has really, really impressed me.
12:12 He's bounced around, I think he's been in the league
12:14 for six years and he's been on seven teams.
12:17 But last year in 20 games with Charlotte,
12:19 he averaged like 14, five and five
12:23 or something crazy like that.
12:25 And that dude has carried it into preseason.
12:27 I mean, he knows how to play offense.
12:30 I mean, he just understands off ball movement.
12:34 He's got a decent handle and the shots falling.
12:37 I think my biggest concern with Sfee offensively
12:40 is if the shot stops falling
12:41 because it really hasn't gone down in his NBA career.
12:45 Defensively, he's not great,
12:48 but if he was great defensively,
12:49 he would be like a max type player.
12:51 So Sfee number two, Ben, you with that?
12:56 - I had Sfee like down my list.
12:57 I had two other guys ahead of Sfee.
13:00 'Cause I just think like Hauser gives you everything
13:03 that Sfee does as well as better defense.
13:07 Whereas, because of his negative wingspan,
13:10 in Sfee's case, talking dimensions here,
13:12 he gets bumped down my list a little bit
13:14 because we do need guys who can hold their own defensively.
13:17 The thing with like the wings that we're evaluating now
13:19 is that they've all been thrown out there together, right?
13:21 Because we're resting most of our starters.
13:23 And we're not necessarily having much of an opportunity
13:25 to look at them within the context
13:27 of how they fit in with our starters.
13:29 And in the case of Hauser, for example,
13:32 like he can, like I said,
13:33 hold his own somewhat defensively
13:35 and therefore not be like a point of vulnerability
13:38 and exploit defensively for an opposition
13:40 if he's out there with the Jays.
13:42 Sfee is exploitable defensively,
13:45 which is why I was looking at guys like Lamar Stevens
13:47 and even, dare I say it, Delano Banton ahead of Sfee
13:51 because at least they can hold themselves defensively
13:53 because they're going to defer to the Jays
13:55 imposing as offensively anyway.
13:57 Does that make any sense?
13:57 - So yeah, no, no, absolutely it does, right?
14:01 You're looking for a mix of skills off your bench.
14:03 I think, you know, we've, we talk about it before
14:05 is like, you don't, you don't want guys
14:08 who are a C minus at everything under bench
14:11 because they're not good at anything.
14:12 You want guys who fit into a specific role.
14:15 You want guys who fit into a specific scenario.
14:19 And, you know, I think you can make the argument
14:22 if Hauser's just kind of a better version of Sfee,
14:25 I think Sfee does different stuff offensively,
14:27 but if he's playing with the Jays,
14:30 he's not going to have the ball in his hands
14:31 like he has these last two preseason games, right?
14:33 So I think that's a great argument.
14:35 I think you convinced me, but who would you have it to?
14:39 Yeah, no, I'm with you.
14:40 I think if I'm Joe Mazzulla,
14:41 I think Sfee's below at least one of the other wings
14:45 in that case, but who would you have it to?
14:48 - Well, before I give you that,
14:50 I think my main counterpoint to myself on Sfee
14:53 is that if you are an elite kickout option,
14:56 which Sfee so far has been this preseason,
14:58 like that's probably the most value
15:01 that you could add to the Jays.
15:02 So that's where I would sort of throw him up my list
15:04 a little bit, but then again, Hauser's giving us that.
15:06 So I think there's some redundancy there in Sfee's case.
15:10 I actually had, and this stock has taken a dip
15:12 in the last couple of days, Lamar Stevens,
15:15 the three point shot, it's not there.
15:17 He can get to the paint.
15:19 He's demonstrated that little free throw line,
15:21 pull up J, defensively, particularly one-on-one,
15:25 pretty solid team defense.
15:27 And this is the same for O'Shea Brissett as well.
15:30 Very confused so far when it comes to switches
15:33 and sort of schematic defensive actions,
15:37 but he's a good solid physical body out there,
15:41 great dimensions.
15:42 And I think we talked about that redundancy
15:45 between Hauser and Sfee.
15:47 So I've got to throw Lamar Stevens up there
15:49 just 'cause of the defensive versatility
15:50 that he brings to the team.
15:52 I'm willing to have this argument shut down.
15:53 - I absolutely love how in on Lamar Stevens you are, Ben.
15:58 - I'm starting to regret it a little bit.
16:00 - I said it when we were on the playback.
16:01 I was like, I love this take for you.
16:04 So I would take a little bit of issue
16:06 with Brissett being confused on defense.
16:10 I think he was definitely that first Sixers game.
16:14 I think he's started to figure it out defensively,
16:17 started to find the scheme,
16:20 even last game he was pointing to Pritchard at times
16:23 being like, get down there, get to the switch,
16:25 get to the corner shooter.
16:26 That's your responsibility, not mine.
16:28 So I think Brissett seems like a quick learner defensively.
16:32 I think him and Stevens,
16:33 you can make an argument for either of them
16:36 if you're gonna put them above Sfee.
16:39 I would probably lean Brissett personally
16:43 just because he has some history of making threes,
16:48 but if Lamar's shot starts going down,
16:52 it doesn't even have to go down a lot,
16:53 just like 33, 34% from three.
16:57 He's a better player than Brissett in that case.
17:00 Like his handle is like sneaky good, man.
17:04 Like he's throwing behind the backs,
17:06 he's getting into the paint,
17:07 he's dropping like these little fallaways in the lane.
17:10 I'm like, who is this man, Jalen Brown?
17:12 I was shocked at like Lamar Stevens' ability
17:16 to handle the ball.
17:18 I think Brissett reads the game really well though.
17:21 Like he knows when to drive, he knows when to cut,
17:25 and I think he's figuring out the defense
17:28 quicker than Stevens.
17:30 But I think they're mostly interchangeable at this point.
17:35 Brissett's taller, Stevens like 30 pounds
17:38 or 20 pounds heavier.
17:40 And you saw Joe trusted him to play center
17:43 in that first game, which actually worked really well.
17:47 And they both get their nose in on defense,
17:50 they both want to rebound, they both play really hard.
17:52 So they're super similar players.
17:55 Stevens' skill level, maybe a little higher,
17:57 Brissett's reading of the game, maybe a little higher.
17:59 So it's just kind of whatever you need
18:02 in that particular scenario on the court, I think.
18:06 - Por que no los dos?
18:08 Why not both?
18:09 - Yeah, exactly.
18:10 - We can keep them both.
18:12 - Yeah, we got plenty of room.
18:14 - Both very versatile.
18:16 - Apologies for the Australian accented Spanish there.
18:18 I don't even know if that was accurate.
18:20 I got it from a burrito ad from 10 years ago.
18:22 - You did nail it.
18:23 (laughing)
18:24 - Thank you.
18:25 Maybe something that does tip it in the favor
18:28 of O'Shea Brissett.
18:30 He's got the YouTube channel,
18:31 as Spoony's cat makes an appearance
18:32 for everyone's bingo card there.
18:34 He's got the YouTube channel,
18:35 and I've seen and looked on with a lot of envy
18:39 for other teams with players sort of midway
18:42 around the rotation who have these great,
18:45 really well produced vlogging platforms on YouTube.
18:47 And it just gives you this insight into the team
18:49 that you don't get.
18:50 Obviously we're talking way off the court at this point,
18:52 but the fact that O'Shea brings that to the table
18:55 from a fandom perspective,
18:57 suddenly we've got this new insight into the team
18:59 that we never had.
19:00 And for him to stick on the roster
19:01 and continue to put out those productions all year,
19:05 and hopefully into a deep playoff run,
19:08 a championship, dare I say it,
19:10 that's a great addition to the team.
19:12 So maybe if you forced my hand,
19:14 as much as I've been high on being an advocate
19:16 for Lamar Stevens,
19:17 maybe we're gonna go O'Shea in this case.
19:20 Who did you have next?
19:21 - I think it's gotta be Banton after those guys.
19:24 And in fact, I think you could make an argument
19:28 for Banton over a few of these dudes,
19:31 just 'cause he's so different.
19:34 I think it depends what you're looking for.
19:37 His pop off the dribble,
19:39 he's got a little more,
19:42 his first step's quicker than I thought in the half court.
19:46 And having a dude with an elite level handle at 6'7"
19:52 is just a bizarre skill
19:54 that I think teams aren't really prepared for
19:58 when you go to the bench.
19:59 And just being tall defensively helps.
20:03 If you can run him at point guard
20:05 and have a six foot seven point guard,
20:06 and then that can help Pritchard too,
20:10 who's kind of more of a shooting guard in some ways.
20:13 So he can play next to Pritchard
20:14 and kind of handle the primary ball handling duties
20:17 and then guard up to the shooting guard
20:19 while Pritchard takes the point guard.
20:20 So he's a nice fit with him off the bench.
20:22 But personally, I would have Banton as a pretty clear fifth,
20:29 just because we need shooting off the bench
20:31 and he just cannot shoot the ball.
20:33 But I don't know.
20:36 He's had a weird preseason.
20:38 He seems like he might be incredibly inconsistent,
20:41 which might just be a thing for his career.
20:43 But hey, coming from Summerlee,
20:46 I expected this dude to get cut
20:48 and he might make his way into a roster spot.
20:51 - He may well make his way into a roster spot.
20:53 And I had him getting cut as well,
20:55 or most likely to be cut.
20:56 But if he is wildly inconsistent,
20:58 that's the biggest detractor.
21:00 He's so good at his best and he's so bad at his worst.
21:03 - Worse than the next worst player on the team by far,
21:07 which is what got him pulled out of the game
21:09 last night by Mazzuola.
21:11 But he brings that defensive versatility.
21:13 You mentioned the first step.
21:14 He gets to the rim.
21:15 And part of that is just like getting positionally
21:18 where the average player is capable of getting.
21:21 But then the reach that he has for his position,
21:25 his wingspan,
21:26 it allows him to just get better looks under the hoop
21:29 from layups.
21:30 And we haven't seen many dunks from him so far,
21:32 but he's better at using his dimensions,
21:35 I might say,
21:36 to get uncontested looks under the rim.
21:39 He's only 23.
21:40 So you could make an argument that the issues
21:43 of inconsistency could still be addressed
21:46 as he matures as a player,
21:48 a la Jason Tatum, Jaylen Brown.
21:50 And if he were any more consistent than he currently is,
21:55 then we wouldn't be able to afford him.
21:56 So that's kind of what you get at this price point.
21:58 So I'm very high on Banton at this point.
22:01 And high on his potential.
22:04 But then again,
22:05 we're gunning for a championship this year, Spoonie.
22:06 Like, do we want to gamble on a guy like Delano Banton
22:11 getting as good as we need them to get
22:13 throughout the course of the season?
22:15 I'm not sure.
22:16 I don't know.
22:17 I will say that my rankings have changed multiple times
22:20 in my mind compared to what I've got on page here
22:23 throughout the course of this conversation.
22:24 So I'm all over the place right now.
22:26 - Yeah, I think you're right.
22:27 That Banton clearly has the highest ceiling
22:30 of any of these guys.
22:31 Like, dude, if he just starts to shoot the ball decently,
22:35 he's going to be insane.
22:36 Like, he will be a really, really good player.
22:39 If he can be kind of like an actual off-ball three,
22:42 and like his ability to drive in his first step,
22:45 attack and closeouts,
22:47 will make Stevens and Brissette
22:49 look like me and you out there.
22:50 You know what I mean?
22:51 Like, he's just so much more explosive than those guys.
22:55 I think they're both better defensively.
22:57 But again, like,
22:59 he's a big wing that doesn't get blown by
23:01 every single possession.
23:02 So it's not like he's a bad defensive player
23:05 or anything like that.
23:06 So, yeah, Banton's just a weird,
23:10 he's a very unique player in a lot of ways.
23:13 You just don't see a lot of guys like him out there.
23:15 Like, could he be Sean Livingston?
23:18 I don't know.
23:18 Maybe.
23:19 I don't know.
23:20 - That's what makes him so intriguing.
23:22 - Right.
23:23 - So we've kind of touched on all of the names here,
23:26 and it's been a bit of a shuffle as far as the rankings.
23:28 But I guess just trying to aggregate everything,
23:31 the first couple of names mentioned were Hauser and Sfee.
23:34 So like clearly shooting with like,
23:36 even just a lick of defense,
23:37 that clearly seems to be between you and I,
23:39 the priority off the bench.
23:40 So Hauser and Sfee.
23:41 And then it's kind of Lamar Stevens, Delano Banton,
23:44 O'Shea Brissette in terms of the hustle plays,
23:46 the defensive versatility.
23:48 In Delano's case,
23:50 the ability to get to the rim for someone at his position.
23:54 That only leaves one more name, Spurdy.
23:58 - Malshe.
23:59 - Jordan Malshe.
24:00 Yeah.
24:01 I think like, look, clearly Joe doesn't trust him,
24:04 which is fine.
24:05 He's, is he even 20 yet?
24:08 I'm not even sure he's 20 yet.
24:10 I will say when he's played, the flashes are there.
24:16 Like that strip and layup he had,
24:18 I think it was against Julius Randall too,
24:21 was absolutely gorgeous.
24:22 I can hear your mouse clicking,
24:24 so I'm assuming you're about to run it then.
24:26 - No, I don't have it.
24:28 - You don't have it?
24:28 Okay.
24:30 So I think the flashes are there.
24:32 They put him on Deuce McBride
24:34 because I think he doesn't understand the defense yet.
24:37 So they were like, just crowd the ball handler.
24:41 He got burnt a couple of times, Deuce McBride,
24:43 pride of West Virginia.
24:44 So shout out WVU, Deuce.
24:47 But he also was all over Deuce
24:50 on a couple possessions as well.
24:52 I thought he did a really good job,
24:53 but I just think offensively he traveled a couple of times,
24:57 although at least one of them was not a travel.
24:59 So he's just raw, super, super raw.
25:04 I would be shocked if he's a contributor this season,
25:08 but I think he's shown enough to make me very encouraged
25:11 about his career going forward.
25:14 - Yeah, that's my landing point as well.
25:16 Encouraged about what's to come,
25:18 but he's a green banana,
25:21 well away from being ripened and ready for eating
25:24 and devouring at this point.
25:26 Apologies for that analogy.
25:28 Yeah, he's had some great moments,
25:30 some great moments of individual defense.
25:32 I love that he is almost incapable
25:34 of being beaten off the dribble.
25:36 Like he's great at recovering
25:39 if he does lose his man momentarily.
25:41 But I usually do a pretty decent job
25:45 of like block reading the screen
25:48 and interpreting what kind of defense we're playing,
25:49 whether it's a zone and then what type of zone
25:51 or man to man.
25:52 And with Walshie out there,
25:53 he's so all over the place
25:55 that I lose that ability.
25:57 He's so out of position.
25:58 He's got no idea what's going on.
25:59 It's impossible to sort of understand team-wise
26:02 what we're doing defensively.
26:03 So he's got a long way to go,
26:04 but he does have those instincts.
26:06 So he will pick that up.
26:07 - 100%.
26:08 - And then at the rim as well,
26:10 he's got some nice touch,
26:11 which I think you mentioned.
26:12 So the potential's there.
26:15 We still love Walshie.
26:16 There's no love lost for our mate, Jordan Walsh.
26:19 He's just got such a long way to go
26:20 and just a bevy of talent ahead of him
26:23 as far as like cracking the rotation.
26:25 So it's gonna be a fun year for Walshie in Maine.
26:29 Should we get to our guy, Peyton Pritchard?
26:31 - Let's do it.
26:32 Let's do it.
26:33 - Let's swing to a PP here.
26:34 (crowd cheering)
26:37 - Coming up next, one on the clock for Pritchard.
26:40 Got it!
26:41 Splashdown!
26:42 (crowd cheering)
26:43 It's Peyton's place here in Atlanta.
26:46 Getting more burn in the absence of Marcus Smart.
26:49 Got to a nice spot.
26:51 (upbeat music)
26:54 - If you are listening,
27:09 if you are listening,
27:10 you need to go on YouTube and watch "27 Minutes In"
27:15 because that was an incredible Peyton Pritchard intro.
27:18 - It's my best work to date, I think.
27:21 - Oh my God, did I lose Ben?
27:23 - Am I not here?
27:24 - Or did I get kicked?
27:25 - I'm here.
27:26 Can you not hear me?
27:28 - Oh.
27:30 - Uh-oh, we're in trouble.
27:32 People in the chat, let us know.
27:33 - I can hear you now.
27:34 - Who's coming through?
27:35 - All right, we're good.
27:36 - All right.
27:37 All right.
27:38 Thanks for the big ups on the Peyton Pritchard video.
27:41 My best work to date.
27:42 - That was beautiful.
27:42 That was beautiful.
27:43 27 minutes.
27:44 We've got the timestamp too to cut that out.
27:47 - Yeah, thank you.
27:48 Thank you for that.
27:48 We'll definitely cut that out for the audio pod listeners.
27:50 And if you're listening to this now, then we didn't.
27:52 But anyway, look, what I said about our wing reserves
27:56 is that they're not all just going to be out there together.
28:00 And this is what makes Peyton Pritchard's performance
28:02 so far in the preseason so special.
28:04 It's like, he is out there with all the reserves.
28:07 He is seeing like the,
28:09 he is the focal point of opposition defense.
28:12 And yet he's still putting out the insane numbers
28:15 and productivity that he has been so far this preseason.
28:18 So for what it's worth, he's a negative 0.5 net rating
28:22 but he's out there winning games for the Celtics
28:25 which has been great.
28:25 So Spoonie, you have a face like maybe I'm dropping
28:29 out of the stream again.
28:30 I'm not sure, but what have been your thoughts so far
28:32 on Peyton Pritchard this preseason?
28:33 Uh-oh.
28:37 Folks in the chat, can you let us know who we're losing?
28:40 Is it me or is it Spoonie?
28:46 Spoonie, I see you.
28:48 All right.
29:02 Folks in the chat are telling me that it's me
29:05 and that it's not Spoonie.
29:06 Yes.
29:07 Spoonie looks like he's being held hostage.
29:11 Blink twice if you need help.
29:14 Spoonie is going to leave, he's going to come back.
29:15 All right, have we got you?
29:16 Have we got you?
29:17 Yeah, we're good, we're good.
29:18 I don't know what happened,
29:19 but all I heard in my headphones was, "Uh, uh, uh."
29:23 Oh no.
29:24 We're good.
29:26 Yeah, what's funny is that you had no latency at all.
29:29 So you looked like you had someone
29:30 like standing behind your camera
29:31 with like holding a gun to you or something.
29:34 Oh my God, that's terrible.
29:35 All right, awesome.
29:36 So I was setting it up by saying that,
29:42 you know, we're talking about our wings earlier
29:44 and how the sample size we've had of those wings
29:46 is that like, they've all been out there together.
29:49 And we haven't had a lot of sample size
29:50 of like them playing with the Jays.
29:52 Pritchard's been out there, he's been fairly dominant.
29:56 And like, he's been playing with all reserves as well.
29:58 Like, it's not like he's been able to benefit
30:00 from the Jays' gravity, pulling defenses away from him.
30:03 And yet he's been like largely dominant,
30:05 particularly offensively.
30:07 He's been incredible.
30:08 So what's been your take on Peyton Pritchard
30:10 so far this preseason?
30:11 Yeah, I mean, he's averaging 21.3 and four assists.
30:16 So he's shooting 42% for three on 10.3 a game,
30:22 which is absolutely absurd.
30:26 But I think the most impressed I've been
30:29 with Pritchard this year is that his assist percentage
30:33 last year was 15.3%.
30:35 He's at 29.3 in the preseason.
30:40 So it's just absolutely kind of a different player
30:45 if you're up that high in assist percentage.
30:48 Like if you're shooting at an elite level
30:50 and you're playmaking at that high of a level,
30:53 I mean, you're just a different guy.
30:56 So I don't know what to expect for Pritchard
31:01 in the regular season, but I'm really comfortable with him
31:06 essentially being the sixth, seventh man at this point.
31:10 Like he's been that good, man, like super impressive.
31:12 And you're right, like often he's by far
31:15 the best offensive player on the court for the Celtics
31:18 and it hasn't stopped him at all.
31:21 So, I mean, the deep shots aren't always gonna go,
31:26 but it seems like he's more confident getting into the lane,
31:30 getting into the paint, kicking out, hitting floaters.
31:33 He had that, like a couple of little like mid-range jumpers
31:37 that just look so pure and smooth.
31:39 So, some lob passes, we're seeing him lob to Keita here.
31:44 So like, I'm not sure he could have played better
31:48 in this preseason.
31:49 Like he's been incredible, dude.
31:51 He might've been our best player.
31:53 - Yeah, has there been any greater source of joy
31:55 in your like basketball world than Peyton Pritchard
31:59 like in the last week or so?
32:00 He's been fucking incredible.
32:02 - Yeah, no, I don't think so, man.
32:05 Like as hyped as I am for Porzingis and Drew Holiday,
32:08 like the story is Peyton Pritchard right now, I think.
32:12 Like he's been that good, man.
32:13 And like some of the shots he's hitting are just bananas.
32:17 - Yeah, those pull up middies in the paint,
32:21 like deeper than the, like closer to the hoop
32:23 than the free throw line.
32:24 But it's like, it adds a new dimension to his game
32:27 where he's not just like layups and threes now.
32:29 He has this ability to like get the defense backpedaling
32:32 and pull up.
32:33 And we don't know the percentages, NBA probably,
32:36 rightfully so from their perspective,
32:38 don't offer tracking data from the preseason.
32:40 But he's pretty money from that position, suffice to say.
32:44 So it's been a lot of fun and just coming off the back
32:47 of the contract extension and all the,
32:50 I wouldn't even say drama from last year
32:51 because he handled it quite well.
32:53 Well, he made his thoughts and feelings known
32:56 while not creating a rift among the team,
32:58 which is a great and a real good sign of character
33:02 from his perspective.
33:03 But to see it come to fruition now
33:05 where he's like a legitimate part of the rotation,
33:09 definitely like solidified as the seventh man on the team.
33:12 And, you know, we talked about that star depth
33:15 as far as like, we've got like four true stars
33:18 on the team now, like, and Derek White and Al Horford
33:22 to the point where if one or two of those have to miss games,
33:24 we've got enough star power to continue to win,
33:28 hopefully without them.
33:30 Peyton Pritchard just adds a new dimension to that.
33:32 Like clearly we've got more reliable,
33:35 offensive productivity.
33:36 Do you like, what do you think about it
33:38 just being the preseason?
33:39 Like, do you think this is gonna continue
33:40 into the regular season?
33:41 Or do you think we're maybe over hyping things so far?
33:44 - Look, I mean, I don't think his numbers are gonna,
33:47 like his raw stats aren't gonna be as high
33:49 just because he's not gonna play as many minutes.
33:51 But like this dude shot 40% for his entire NBA career
33:55 before last year.
33:56 And largely his minutes last year were at garbage time.
33:59 He played like 400 or 500 fewer minutes last season.
34:04 And clearly Brad Stevens believes in him
34:06 because he would have traded for a guard if he didn't.
34:09 And so do I, I don't, I'm not sure he's gonna shoot 42%
34:14 on the types of threes he's shooting,
34:16 but he won't need to take these types of threes
34:19 when he's playing with the actual rotation.
34:21 And I'm just super encouraged by how confident he looks
34:26 getting to the rim and attacking.
34:29 And you're right, like that little middy,
34:32 like you need that as a small guard
34:34 because you can't finish over people
34:36 like Drew Holiday does, right?
34:37 Like Drew just goes all the way to the rim
34:39 and he's finishing over these monsters,
34:41 but he's six foot five, right?
34:43 Pritchard's six one, six foot, like he can't do that.
34:45 So if he's got that little eight footer,
34:47 like it's the same results, two points.
34:50 It's just a different way of going about it.
34:51 And I feel like defensively,
34:53 Pritchard's always gonna stick his nose in.
34:55 He's always gonna try any boxes out.
34:58 And I think that's super important for this team
35:01 that I think we all agree,
35:02 like rebounding might be an issue.
35:04 So, I mean, I'm pumped, dude.
35:07 I'm hyped for him.
35:09 - Yeah, especially regular season.
35:10 Defensively in the playoffs,
35:12 like he's gonna get played off the court.
35:13 He just will.
35:14 But regular season, he comes in with that energy.
35:17 He's picking up guys full court.
35:19 He's a spacer for the Jays and for Porzingis as well.
35:23 He's going to be critical throughout the regular season.
35:26 And I think he's gonna have some nice glaring
35:28 playoff moments as well, if all goes well.
35:30 So very excited.
35:31 You mentioned as almost part of a perfect segue there,
35:34 Spooty, Drew Holliday, another point guard
35:36 who plays with the Boston Celtics, recently acquired.
35:39 He's played two games now, one off the bench,
35:41 one in the starting lineup.
35:43 Hasn't exactly dominated, but I think with Drew,
35:46 like it sort of comes down perception-wise
35:48 of like how he's performed so far,
35:50 of what your expectations have been of him early on.
35:54 So what are your takes on Drew Holliday's
35:56 early performances as a Celtic?
35:58 - Yeah, it kind of feels like he's just trying
36:00 to fit in, you know what I mean?
36:02 Like he's not trying to dominate the ball.
36:04 Like he's going from essentially being the second option
36:07 in Milwaukee for the last two years,
36:08 because Middleton hasn't really played.
36:10 And now he's the fourth, fifth option at times.
36:15 So has not blown me away, but he's had those moments.
36:20 He had a couple drives last night,
36:23 where it was just like classic Drew Holliday,
36:25 where it looks like he's going in slow motion.
36:27 And then all of a sudden he's past somebody
36:29 and laying in with his left hand.
36:32 Shooting 43% from three, which is like what I think
36:35 is probably one of the most important stats for him,
36:38 considering who he's going to be playing with.
36:40 Hasn't attempted a free throw.
36:42 Look out for that.
36:43 Drew's big weakness offensively is he does not get
36:46 to the line, which is kind of unfortunate,
36:49 but he goes around people with Eurosteps
36:52 and just uses his strength.
36:53 So he's just not a big free throw guy,
36:56 but otherwise like I just think he's 33, right?
36:59 He's not going to be going balls to the wall
37:01 in the preseason.
37:02 It looks like he's not been going balls to the wall
37:05 and he's still learning everything, man.
37:07 He just got to Boston like five days ago or six days ago.
37:11 So, you know, I haven't been blown away,
37:14 but I also haven't been like, oh boy.
37:17 Like when Lowry got to Miami and everyone's like,
37:19 uh-oh, this guy's done.
37:20 Like that's not been my response either.
37:23 Yeah.
37:23 (silence)
37:26 You're muted, buddy.
37:31 Sorry, I had a hardware issue.
37:36 Another timestamp to edit.
37:37 Thanks to everyone in the live stream for sticking with us
37:40 as we continue to document timestamps.
37:43 To edit out for the audio podcast.
37:45 Do you give him a pass?
37:48 Just in general, like given everything you said,
37:50 given he's barely been in Boston for that long
37:53 and yet, you know, he was quite productive
37:55 in limited minutes in this game last night
37:57 against the Sixers.
37:58 He does seem to be kind of like Paul Zingas as well,
38:00 like ramping up productivity wise and fit wise
38:04 as we sort of gradually integrate him into the team.
38:07 But the way that I look at Holiday so far is like,
38:10 I just give him a pass for everything
38:12 'cause it's just going to take time.
38:13 Yeah, I think so.
38:15 And I just think like, if this were the playoffs,
38:17 like he would be going all out
38:19 and he would be a complete game changer for us.
38:22 And that's just not going to happen in preseason.
38:24 So I'm totally fine with Drew.
38:26 I've got absolutely no concerns.
38:28 I think we're good.
38:29 Like I said, athletically, he looks the same.
38:31 Defensively, he's going to be everywhere.
38:34 And he's just got to learn what he needs to do,
38:37 what he needs to give this team when he's, you know,
38:39 the fourth, fifth option.
38:41 Agreed.
38:43 I look forward to just the day where he's fully integrated
38:47 and like the Brad Stevens image is fully actualized
38:51 and realized.
38:53 Do you have like a point in the regular season
38:55 that you sort of predict that to happen by?
38:58 Is it sort of 10 games, 20 games?
38:59 How long are we going to have to wait?
39:00 I guess it's the last game.
39:01 I almost said, I literally was thinking Christmas day.
39:05 Christmas day.
39:06 I just, it feels like, not that he'll be bad before then,
39:10 but it just feels like by Christmas,
39:12 you've really kind of got your team together
39:15 and you understand schemes on both sides
39:18 and the chemistry is head time.
39:19 It takes a while to learn how to play with somebody, man.
39:22 It really does.
39:24 So like you think about it,
39:26 when we had that huge turnaround under Udoka,
39:28 it came like January 6th or so was that last loss
39:32 against the Knicks when Barrett banked in that three
39:35 and then they took off.
39:37 So I think, yeah, probably Christmas
39:40 before it's a hundred percent incredible.
39:42 Like we're spoiled by that Kyrie, S my D era
39:45 when they went like 17 and two or whatever it was.
39:47 But I think it'll take a little bit.
39:48 I mean, we're going to be really good before that,
39:51 but I think truly to be like, wow,
39:53 Drew is like really integrated in this team
39:55 and understands both sides of the ball.
39:58 It's going to be December.
39:59 I would bet.
40:00 Where are you feeling?
40:01 You're thinking like November 10th.
40:03 - I hope, I hope it's like game one.
40:05 - Me too.
40:06 - But I think you're right.
40:07 I think Christmas is sort of like a modest
40:11 and generous period of ramping up for Drew Holiday.
40:14 The difference between now and two years ago,
40:16 I think is the team is just so talented.
40:18 They just got so many individually high talented players
40:21 and guys like Tatum and Brown who have been with the team
40:24 and played under Mazzuola for long enough
40:26 that we might still win a shitload of games
40:28 regardless of the ramp up for Drew Holiday.
40:31 So we might get the best of both worlds in that sense.
40:34 Shifting to another point guard,
40:36 it's time for the opposing team, the Sixers.
40:39 I hate the Sixers.
40:40 Should we be terrified of Tyrese Maxey?
40:42 Because he has been ridiculously productive
40:46 against our new look team so far in the preseason.
40:49 Is that something that we should be concerned
40:50 about going forward?
40:52 - So I think the one thing about the Sixers
40:55 that I've not heard,
40:56 like we've all been preying on their downfall.
40:59 We've all been digging the grave,
41:00 burying them with this heart and stuff.
41:02 But like there is a chance that Maxey just turns
41:07 into a next level of player, right?
41:10 And oh boy, kind of looked like it might be happening.
41:15 And that would be absolutely fucking terrifying, dude.
41:20 That would be not good, right?
41:22 Like, are you scared of him?
41:23 Because I'm worried.
41:25 I mean, I'm not worried about like playing them
41:27 in the playoffs, but like if he keeps playing like that,
41:30 I might be.
41:31 - I'm scared of him individually.
41:34 I just can't be scared of the Sixers as a whole.
41:37 There's just too much going on wrong under the hood there
41:41 for the 76ers.
41:43 And with the Harden situation and Embiid cresting
41:47 over age 30, which for a person of his size
41:51 is a significant age milestone to reach.
41:54 As a whole, I'm not concerned about the Sixers.
41:57 And so I kind of look at it as like,
41:59 and this is probably a sign of how like pathetic
42:01 the Sixers are in my mind.
42:03 I look at it as like, good for you, a nice little win here.
42:06 Like, oh, you got something out of the process,
42:08 but like all in all overall,
42:10 like it's not going to be enough to get over the Celtics.
42:13 Let alone the Bucks, maybe the Heat, the Cavs, et cetera.
42:17 So what's more concerning to me is the player archetype
42:22 of Tyrese Maxxie.
42:25 And you look at the Donovan Mitchells of the world,
42:28 the Damian Lillards.
42:29 It's that player archetype that we're going to have
42:32 to be concerned about like point guards
42:35 or crafty two guards who are really crafty
42:38 with getting around screens and finding space,
42:41 particularly when your bigs are playing in drop,
42:43 which is what Al and Porzingis are going to be doing
42:46 all season long, all playoffs long.
42:48 Us giving up those looks to guards of that caliber.
42:51 And there's so many of them around the league
42:54 'cause we sort of had a point guard renaissance
42:55 in the last five to 10 years or so.
42:57 That's really concerning to me.
42:59 But then the one thing that negates that,
43:01 Derek White, Drew Holiday, incredible screen navigators,
43:04 maybe that negates the vulnerabilities that we give up
43:08 with our drop defense and our less than speedy,
43:11 less than fast footed bigs there.
43:13 So we'll see.
43:15 - Yeah, I think, you know, we're just going to know
43:17 going into the season, that's the type of player
43:20 we've got to be worried about.
43:21 Unfortunately, there's some teams in the East
43:23 that have those guys, but ultimately like it takes a lot
43:27 for one of those dudes to win a game by themselves.
43:31 You know, they really have to make a ton of jumpers
43:36 and that's really hard to do off the dribble
43:39 for four games in the playoffs.
43:41 So yeah, maybe we might lose a couple of games,
43:44 but I think on balance, what we're betting on
43:47 is that like White and Holiday
43:48 are going to get over enough screens.
43:51 We're going to be able to mix up the coverages enough
43:53 and they're just going to miss sometimes.
43:56 So yeah, a little scary.
43:57 I mean, Dame Lillard and Milwaukee don't love it,
44:01 but yeah, that's where we're at.
44:03 - That's where we're at.
44:05 I'm sure for all the don't love it points
44:08 that we can make about Tyrus Maxey and Dame in Milwaukee,
44:11 they're probably thinking the same thing
44:13 about Pausingus and Drew Holiday in Boston as well.
44:17 So it goes both ways and potentially in our favor,
44:20 albeit we are very biased Celtics fans.
44:24 Moving along, are you worried about Luke Cornett?
44:27 'Cause I am concerned at this point
44:29 'cause he has been bad in a word, very, very, very bad.
44:35 - I feel like I've been on this take for a while.
44:40 I'm not a Luke guy.
44:41 I never really have been a Luke guy.
44:43 Like he's fine, I guess.
44:46 I mean, I worry that like we kind of threw the change up
44:50 at teams last year and it was like,
44:52 oh, Luke Cornett's playing.
44:54 Oh, we have zero tape on this guy
44:56 because why would we bother?
44:58 And he was like good enough.
45:00 So yeah, I guess I'm extremely worried
45:04 about not having a third big that I'm confident in.
45:08 But how many teams have that, I guess,
45:10 is the other side of the coin.
45:12 - Yeah, I mean, how much is he really a third big though
45:17 if we're potentially going double big,
45:20 if we're potentially playing so much Al
45:22 and so much Pausingus, even if we don't go double big
45:24 that we like have a legitimate reliance on a third big,
45:28 say 15 to 18 minutes per night.
45:32 - That's terrifying when you attribute that to Luke Cornett.
45:35 Like, so I am a little concerned.
45:37 Namius, Keita, I don't know, like it's preseason.
45:41 He has a lot of faults.
45:43 Are you beginning in your mind at least
45:45 to favor him over Luke Cornett?
45:47 - No, I think, so, okay.
45:50 I just like, I am, for some reason,
45:53 I've had like an interest in Keita since the draft.
45:57 I caught, you know, some of his Kings games.
46:01 I caught, you know, I like looked into him during the draft
46:05 because I can't even remember,
46:07 I think it was three years ago,
46:09 we had a pick and he was projected a mock for us.
46:13 So I looked into him, like,
46:14 offense, he's kind of like Luke in a lot of ways
46:19 where he's just like, he's just big.
46:22 And that's like the best thing about him
46:24 is he's really, really big.
46:26 I do think he's probably a better defensive rebounder
46:29 than Luke, but Luke's gonna,
46:31 yeah, Luke's gonna be a lot better,
46:32 like understanding the game,
46:35 being that handoff guy, stuff like that.
46:37 So I think Keita is somehow even slower footed than Cornett,
46:42 but he's kind of changed in my mind.
46:46 He's looked springy in the preseason so far, I guess.
46:51 So I don't know, man, I just, feels like we need to trade
46:55 is where I'm really coming down with it.
46:57 'Cause I just, I just can't trust Luke Cornett.
47:00 - Yeah, it feels like a deadline deal at this point.
47:02 I think where, as far as Cornett's concerned,
47:04 we're gonna give him a lot more rope,
47:06 at least going into the early stages of the regular season.
47:09 And we've got more picks,
47:11 we've got that trader player exception,
47:12 we've got maneuverability,
47:14 and that seems to be the most fillable
47:17 and urgent position of need for the Celtics.
47:19 So we'll see.
47:21 We're gonna wrap up on this.
47:23 Is Jalen Brown underrated at this point?
47:26 And is it time to reset the conversation
47:29 around Jalen Brown and Spoonie?
47:30 Correct me if I'm wrong, but you have written
47:32 or are in the process of writing something about this?
47:35 - Yeah, so I'm writing a deep dive.
47:38 If you ever watched the Spoonie Celtics show years ago,
47:43 I, yeah, it's a underground classic, cult classic.
47:48 I did a deep dive comparing Jason Tatum to Elite Wings,
47:53 and it's a really deep statistical argument.
47:55 So I'm doing that with Jalen Brown right now,
47:58 with Donovan Mitchell, Zach Levine, and Anthony Edwards,
48:03 because they have similar assist percentages
48:05 and similar usage percentages.
48:07 So, but I added this to the run sheet
48:10 because back in the day,
48:12 let me take you back to the late '90s, early 2000s.
48:15 - Please.
48:16 - Allen Iverson was like the most celebrated player
48:19 in the league.
48:21 And he shot like 40% from the floor,
48:24 like in under 40% multiple years.
48:28 And we celebrated him 'cause he scored a lot.
48:32 And then the advanced stat revolution,
48:34 we understand efficiency, three-point shooting,
48:37 and we've gone, like the pendulum has swung
48:39 all the way to the other side.
48:42 But I think we've kind of lost the plot a little bit,
48:45 is like, if you are good enough to score one-on-one
48:50 against people often and efficiently, like Jalen can,
48:55 even if you're not great at anything else,
48:59 you're super good at basketball.
49:02 Like you're one of the best players in the league.
49:05 And Jalen Brown is one of the best players in the league.
49:07 I've seen people be like, he's our fifth best player.
49:11 He's our fourth best player.
49:12 No, he is not.
49:14 Maybe poor Zingas could maybe make an argument.
49:19 But would we trade Jalen Brown
49:20 for Drew Holliday straight up?
49:22 Absolutely not.
49:23 There's no chance in hell.
49:25 Like he's always balled out in the playoffs.
49:28 Like that Heat game seven,
49:30 that Heat series was rough for him.
49:33 But other than that, he's always been good in the playoffs.
49:35 He was great in the final, well, good in the finals.
49:38 Like Jalen Brown is somehow,
49:41 has the richest contract of the NBA,
49:44 and is underrated at this point.
49:45 Like the conversation has gone so far
49:49 that we need to come out the other side
49:52 and start celebrating dudes who can just cross someone up,
49:55 get to the rim and score two points in a dead possession.
49:59 Like that is so valuable
50:01 when there's nine seconds left on the shot clock,
50:03 nothing's happening, you toss it to this dude
50:06 and he shoots mid-range jumpers at 50%.
50:08 Like that matters, man.
50:10 And Jalen is awesome and he's amazing.
50:12 And I can't wait for him to ball out this year.
50:15 - Yeah, man.
50:16 And people forget like the last two seasons,
50:18 and I'm only using the last two seasons as an example,
50:20 because that's as far back as my small brain can think,
50:23 is he had long stretches of carrying the Celtics team.
50:27 Long stretches where Tatum either wasn't playing
50:29 or more likely he just wasn't shooting well,
50:32 wasn't performing well,
50:33 because he has had periods that we like to forget
50:36 of inconsistency, particularly shooting from deep.
50:39 Jalen Brown has been carrying this team
50:41 for long stretches of multiple regular seasons.
50:44 He is for the most part, a solid, reliable,
50:48 and an all NBA player and multi-time all-star.
50:52 Somehow we live in this world where we're so lucky
50:55 that a player with that resume is our second best player.
50:59 But yeah, he has his flaws.
51:01 Everyone has their flaws.
51:02 Tatum has his flaws, but he is an incredible player.
51:06 He has become an undervalued and victim is the wrong word,
51:11 but the focal point of negativity,
51:14 we might say among Celtics fans and worse so
51:17 like NBA Reddit fans and just NBA Twitter generalists
51:21 who don't really know ball,
51:22 who don't really watch Celtics games,
51:23 but are happy to pinpoint a few clips of turnovers
51:27 in Jalen Brown's case and attribute
51:28 these really negative aspects to him.
51:31 But he has far more positives
51:33 than he does negatives in his game.
51:35 And he's going to be crucial to whatever this run
51:37 ends up being, championship or bust.
51:39 So yeah, it is time to reset the conversation, Spoonie.
51:43 I guess the most important question is like
51:45 beyond what you and I have just said,
51:46 like how do we kick that off?
51:49 How do we spur a change in direction for Jalen Brown?
51:52 - I don't know because the stats tell me
51:56 Donovan Mitchell's better than him.
51:58 So the piece I'm writing is probably, it might not do it.
52:01 He's certainly better than Anthony Edwards and Zach Levine.
52:04 I think there's probably people who would make the argument
52:06 Anthony Edwards is better than him, but here,
52:09 let me just give you some of his stats.
52:11 - Please.
52:12 - In that finals run.
52:13 23 and a half points plus 9.8 net rating in the playoffs,
52:18 in the finals run playoffs, 57.4 true shooting percentage.
52:24 So like league average is right around 57%
52:28 in the regular season.
52:29 Defenses get better, efficiency drops in the playoffs.
52:32 So above average efficiency, 23 and a half points per game.
52:37 And we were plus 10 per 100 with him on the court
52:41 in the playoffs.
52:43 Like that is not the trappings of a dude who is overrated
52:48 in the 40th best player in the league.
52:50 That is a dude who's sniffing top 20, right?
52:54 And that's what Jalen is.
52:56 He will probably never be more than that, but that's okay.
52:59 Cause we got a dude who's top 10.
53:00 You know what I mean?
53:01 Like he's a perfect second banana.
53:03 He's awesome.
53:04 And the way he's been talking about playing defense
53:07 this year has got me really, really excited
53:10 because I think that's where he needs to turn it around.
53:12 We talk about, oh, stop the turnovers, you know,
53:16 play make more.
53:17 He's just not going to be that guy,
53:19 but he can concentrate on defense and become sort of that
53:23 Clay Thompson type where he's a lockdown defender
53:26 and a great individual scorer.
53:29 And then all of a sudden, like this dude
53:31 is going to be incredible.
53:32 Like he's going to be a net rating monster,
53:34 which he's never been in his entire career.
53:36 So cannot wait.
53:38 - Totally.
53:39 And it's weird how people get caught up
53:40 on the contract situation,
53:42 but they do so relative to the NBA financial landscape
53:46 of the last five years.
53:47 What you need to do is look at it relative
53:49 to what the NBA contract financial landscape will be
53:52 in the ensuing five years, the duration of the contract.
53:55 And it's only going to be a small matter of time
53:57 until compared to other players of his caliber,
54:00 like Jalen Brown's contract
54:02 is going to look completely standard,
54:04 a cookie cutter NBA contract.
54:06 So keep that in mind next time you're using his contract
54:09 as an argument against Jalen Brown.
54:12 All right, good times.
54:14 We kept it under an hour, Spoonie.
54:16 That is going to do it for this one.
54:17 Thank you so much for joining us.
54:19 By the way, first of all,
54:20 if you're watching on any of the CLNS channels,
54:22 head over to the First to the Floor YouTube channel,
54:24 subscribe.
54:25 You know, the more subscribers we have on the channel,
54:27 the more clout we have when reaching out
54:29 to potential guests.
54:30 So any subscribers and reviewers and commenters
54:32 really help with that side of the game for us.
54:34 It's a pretty competitive landscape there
54:36 in the Celtics podcasting game.
54:38 Also, this is your last chance to enter
54:40 our five-star Walshie campaign.
54:42 To enter, leave us a five-star rating
54:44 and review on Apple Podcasts
54:46 and let us know how to contact you.
54:48 Extra points for humor there.
54:49 And we'll do the draw a week or so from now
54:52 and the winner will get their very own
54:53 Walshie jersey in the mail.
54:55 Spoonie, love your work, mate.
54:57 We'll be back early next week.
54:58 Until then, go Celtics.
55:00 - I love the Celtics!
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