On this jam-packed episode of the Pucks with Haggs podcast, host Joe Haggerty is joined by Boston Globe writer Kevin Paul Dupont, hockey scribe Mick Colagao and NESN's own Andy Brickley. Joe and company break down the Bruins' preseason games, and discuss the latest developments in the Jeremy Swayman negotiations. That, and much more!
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00:00Welcome to another edition of the Pucks with Hags podcast, powered by PrizePix, the exclusive
00:09daily fantasy partner of the CLNS Media Network.
00:12I believe this is the 127th episode of the Pucks with Hags podcast.
00:15This is going to be chock full of stuff.
00:18We've got exhibition games to talk about.
00:20We've got Jeremy Swayman to talk about.
00:22We've got all kinds of storylines and things that are developing here in Bruins training
00:26camp now that we're in full swing to talk about and kick around.
00:29So going to be plenty of good stuff on this show.
00:31With me today, I've got a couple of great guests, the Boston Globes, Kevin Paul Dupont.
00:35We also have longtime friend and colleague, Mick Colaggio.
00:38Mick, please tell everybody where they can find your work as always.
00:41Yeah, Rink Rap, and I link to it on X, formerly known as Twitter.
00:47And I'm also writing, got myself a new deadline for the next big hockey news on money and
00:52power.
00:53There you go.
00:54Love the money and power.
00:57Speaking of money and power, Andy Brickley may be joining us from Nessun on this show.
01:02We will see if he's able to join us or not.
01:05If not, he's going to be on a future episode.
01:07So we're looking forward to that.
01:08But either way, we've got a lot of stuff to talk about.
01:10But I also want to give a quick thanks to our sponsors.
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01:46Terms do apply, but again, download the game time app, create an account and use the code
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01:52Download game time today.
01:53What time is it, Mick?
01:54Game time.
01:56Game time.
01:57It's a game time decision you must make.
01:59That's right.
02:00All right.
02:02First things first, let's talk about the exhibition game.
02:05The latest one.
02:06We'll get into both, but a four to two win for the Bruins, a much better second game
02:11for Fabian Lysel obviously scored a goal I thought looked very aggressive, assertive,
02:17was not hesitant with the puck, was making plays, was noticeable.
02:21Myrkulov, same thing, making a lot of plays, looked fast with the puck.
02:27You saw why they're prospects, I thought, in this game and they showed some of their
02:31best stuff.
02:32They weren't dominant by any means, but I thought it was a really nice step forward
02:35for them if they hope to compete for NHL jobs.
02:38Matt Potra I thought looked really good first time out, looked healthy, looked like he was
02:42doing a lot of the things that he did the last time out and he was doing it on the wing,
02:46which I thought was also encouraging.
02:47That gives them some flexibility.
02:49If he can play center and wing as far as what he could do at the NHL level or even doing
02:54a little bit of both in the HL to start.
02:57And Yunus Korpisalo, perfect seven save performance to start out.
03:02Didn't see a ton of shots, but stopped everything he saw, had a couple of good saves.
03:05That was a nice first step for him and what is going to be a big training camp where there's
03:09going to be a lot of eyes on him until the goaltending situation gets resolved here one
03:14way or the other.
03:15Your takeaways and what you thought after watching the game last night?
03:19I think you covered it.
03:20If I signed a little preoccupied here, it's only because while we're doing this, I'm setting
03:25up the GoFundMe page to get Brick a new laptop.
03:28What a pathetic performance.
03:30Hey, it's the preseason for Brick too.
03:33I guess.
03:34I guess it was on Brick and the Flintstone and I should talk.
03:43If Brick's not on this time and he's on next time after you chirped it like that, do something
03:46to make sure you're on the show with him too.
03:48Yeah, please put this and link it, do whatever you got to do with it.
03:54So random thoughts, and I won't go on long here because I'll leave that to Mick, agreed
04:02that Lizelle and Merkuloff were noticeable.
04:05And I think what we have to keep in mind when we watch both of these guys is the framing
04:10here is they've got to play in your top six, right?
04:14They're not auditioning for third line, fourth line grinders, face-off specialist, all that.
04:21They're in there, you know, basically they're in there to win it.
04:25They've got to play in the top six to be valuable to this team.
04:27I don't know if they're ready for that.
04:30I hope they continue to give them reps here in the remaining five games.
04:35And we find out if they do have that talent.
04:39I think for both, it's a very thin fit because of that element.
04:44Yeah.
04:45You know, it's also, it's almost, I've been thinking this through this week too, you know,
04:50there's so many diverse ways to get into it as a positional player.
04:55A forward can be the face-off guy, the grinder, the elite scorer, the defenseman can be the
05:01shutdown guy, the great PK guy, all of that.
05:04For goaltenders, there's only one thing to do, stop it, right?
05:08There's no style to it, there's no getting into it in a different backdoor, either you
05:13perform or you don't.
05:15So my last thought in this, and I'll turn it over to Mick, is I think Corbisolo is going
05:20to be far better than a lot of people anticipate because he's playing for a good team.
05:25He's got a real team here.
05:28Witness seven shots over 30 minutes last night.
05:32That's not going to happen every night, obviously, they had a lot of peewees in the lineup last
05:36night, Washington, but he's a legit goaltender and he's playing for a very good team.
05:44They've made the right, I think they've made the right calculation here.
05:47Yeah, dupes.
05:48I've been saying this all along, like you don't play almost 300 games in the NHL as
05:52a goalie if you suck.
05:53You just don't.
05:54Right.
05:55You know, Corbisolo has been around a long time because he's good.
05:57He's a good NHL goaltender that's played on bad teams.
06:00He's coming off a horrible year in Ottawa playing for a bad team, it happens.
06:04Goalies can bounce back, go back and forth.
06:06It can be a volatile position, too, where you can be great one year and not so great
06:10the next.
06:11And a lot of it does depend on the players that you're playing around in front of you.
06:14Mick, your takeaways from last night's game.
06:17Well, on Corbisolo, even though there were a few shots, there were a few great A's in
06:23there.
06:24And he looked really calm in handling those and dismissing them like the pro that he is,
06:31the journeyman pro that he is.
06:35And if you look at when L.A. acquired him prior to last season's shit show in Ottawa,
06:41he had only 11 games before the playoffs.
06:43He was great in those 11 games because he was with a good up-and-coming team with a
06:48lot of structure.
06:49And then he played against Edmonton in the playoffs and won two games.
06:53And if you think that, well, yeah, but he lost by this score and that score.
06:57So did Bobrovsky, by the way.
06:59So even though they won the last one, his performances are probably comparable.
07:05Anyway, bottom line, I thought Markoloff was a lot better than Lysel in the first game.
07:12I don't think he improved as much as Lysel in the second game.
07:16But I'm on board with both you guys about that.
07:19My one caveat to Kevin's thin scenario of how they make it is if somehow through some
07:24series of injuries, they became two thirds of a third line.
07:28But that's the one way I would see them in the bottom six is similarly to how Pasta and
07:33Spooner were, I think, during the 14-15 season wound up playing some hockey.
07:39And anyway, if I got my Spooner timeline right, but I know my Pasta part is right.
07:46But there's a scenario there where Merck, I think, is the trickier fit because he's
07:53really a centerman who can play some left wing.
07:58And he doesn't seem to respond as much and spike as much.
08:02But he's a good quality player.
08:04And if like other Russians who have preceded him into the Bruins program, I wouldn't be
08:11too surprised if he winds up becoming a very good 30-something-year-old player in the KHL.
08:17Yes, like Koko?
08:20I wasn't thinking of him, but I was thinking of a few other guys prior to that.
08:26He's the one who didn't want to play in Providence because it wasn't as good as his home league,
08:32and he wanted to get fast-tracked, and they wouldn't fast-track him.
08:35It goes back to like 20 years ago, and he wanted to be a very good player in the KHL,
08:39and then a GM in the KHL.
08:41I'm just, my brain.
08:42Zinoviev?
08:43Yeah, yeah.
08:44Yep.
08:45Yep, I remember that name.
08:48Another player last night that factors into all this mix, too, is Tyler Johnson.
08:53He was pretty good last night.
08:56It's interesting that they're playing him on the wing or looking at him at wing and
09:00center and that he can do both, and I think he's kind of adept at both, made a really
09:04nice pass to Breazeau for that one-touch backhander that he scored.
09:10And I think he's a guy that could be a dark horse candidate that goes all the way through
09:17camp and could end up being the guy on the right side with Marchand and Coyle when it's
09:21all said and done because he's got some of the offensive know-how.
09:26He's scored goals, and he's put up points in the league before.
09:29He's won the Cup a couple of times.
09:30He thinks the game really well.
09:32In some ways, I think he would be a really good complement to them because they would
09:36kind of all be on the same wavelength, and I think he showed last night that he's a guy
09:40that you're going to have to watch throughout camp because there's still some game there.
09:43This isn't like the Alex Chasen thing last year where he came in on a tryout, and you
09:47could tell pretty quickly that he didn't have it anymore and that he wasn't going to be
09:51playing in the league.
09:52I think Tyler Johnson looks like a guy that can still play, so it's going to be interesting
09:55to watch that.
09:56All right.
09:57I'm having a hard time with this whole thing, and I think the reason is because I see a
10:02couple of things happening.
10:03One, I feel like he's a stick who knows how to be better than everybody else who's going
10:10to get the initial looks in that right-wing spot, but I don't know sustaining it forward
10:16when the hockey ramps up.
10:17Now, granted, you could say 17 goals in 62 games or whatever it was with the Blackhawks
10:22last year, that that projects to over 20, plus he's on a good team, so the plus-minus
10:26will be better, blah, blah, blah, blah, all of that stuff.
10:28The last time he was a really relevant hockey player, he was playing 10 minutes a game on
10:31the fourth line when Tampa won the Cup in 2021.
10:34Now, granted, you could also argue that he was phased out because they were freaking
10:39loaded.
10:40They were a wagon, and so maybe he was more there than I'm giving him credit for through
10:45saying this.
10:47But I don't know.
10:48I don't feel like it's the answer they want.
10:51I feel like it's one that would plug the dike, it would give them serviceability in regular
10:55season situations, kind of like a Shattenkirk as a forward kind of a guy, is how I look
11:03at him.
11:04Maybe good for the team, good to have around, but if he's your answer there, you failed.
11:09Yeah.
11:10Yeah.
11:11What do you think, Dupes, on Tyler Johnson?
11:12Any thoughts?
11:13I would disagree on that.
11:16I think part of the reason he got phased out is his money got too high.
11:19I think his last deal was four times five million.
11:22So that aided and abetted his being moved off, and Tampa's had to do that with a number
11:27of guys.
11:28Those are the territory winning the Cup.
11:32That's right.
11:33Yeah.
11:34And that said, he's the opposite discussion of the other two guys, the two kids.
11:40They've got to play in your top six.
11:42Tyler Johnson can play one, two, three, four line, play him at left D, make him your emergency
11:49backup goalie.
11:50He just wants to be in the squad, Dupes.
11:54That's it.
11:55Yeah.
11:56Yeah.
11:57And he'll be cheap money.
11:58He's a great...
11:59Frankly...
12:00I said Shattenkirk.
12:01I feel like he's kind of...
12:02You can plug and play, so you get a certain level right away, but the ceiling is low,
12:09or it's confined to certain contexts.
12:13I would say the ceiling might be lower, but the floor is much higher.
12:16Put it that way.
12:17Yeah.
12:18That's fair.
12:19Of what you're going to get.
12:20Yeah.
12:21It's a guaranteed performance.
12:22Yeah.
12:23Is it 100% battery power?
12:25No.
12:26But there's a lot of nights, 50%, 60% battery power is going to help this team.
12:31So making the team is one thing.
12:33Being on the 23 is one thing.
12:36But if he's your opening night right winger on the second line, I got a problem with that.
12:41No.
12:42Yeah.
12:43I mean, and again, there's a million variables, and the only caveat, I agree with that at
12:47large, caveat being, is everybody healthy, which is rare.
12:53The more I watch this game, I'm surprised three guys don't go out of the lineup per
12:57night the way it's played today.
13:00Hey, we're down one today.
13:04Yeah.
13:05There you go.
13:06There you go.
13:07Technically disabled.
13:08So yeah, I mean, for the Tyler Johnson, I mean, he's the Heinen here, he's on the PTO.
13:19We had questions whether Heinen would make it.
13:21I've got no question about this guy and his serviceability and how he could fit.
13:26I'm amazed given that there are 32 teams in the league.
13:30I'm guessing he just got very choosy here.
13:33He spotted this as a good city, a chance to win.
13:36There's always a chance to win.
13:37Are they a cup favorite?
13:39No, they're not.
13:40But I don't know.
13:42It's like, who the hell knows going into every year.
13:46They're cup viable, and he can choose.
13:49And I think that's sort of the dynamic here.
13:52And Dupes, a legit chance to win a spot too.
13:55I think he probably looked at Brew and said, there's at least one, maybe two forward spots
13:59on this team that are definitely up for grabs.
14:01So to a veteran, if you see that on a good team that's maybe Stanley Cup caliber, certainly
14:06playoff caliber, that's going to be super attractive.
14:10In today's NHL, the way the salary cap works, a lot of the guys on PTO, as you're surprised,
14:16didn't get contracts.
14:17I know Pacioretty is banged up and he's had injuries, but there are guys with big track
14:23records in the league that did not get guaranteed deals and kind of have to sing for their supper
14:28with tryouts in training camp now.
14:32And it seems to be the way of the world with the NHL, with the salary cap going on.
14:36And speaking of the salary cap, let's get into it right now.
14:40Let's not waste any more time and belabor any more points.
14:44I think what most people want to hear is everybody's takes on the latest chapters in the Jeremy
14:49Swayman saga as to what's going on right now.
14:53The Spit and Chicklets podcast or the Spitting Up on Yourself podcast, if you're Don Sweeney,
14:58came out yesterday and Ryan Whitney and Paul Bizonette were addressing the Swayman thing.
15:06And basically Whitney was saying the Bruins insulted Swayman with a low ball offer of
15:13four times 6.2.
15:15I have not seen anybody dispute that offer.
15:17I believe that was probably the Bruins opening offer.
15:21And frankly, I don't think it was a low ball offer.
15:24I think for a guy that's never played more than 44 games a year, has never been a number
15:28one goalie, has never finished, you know, it has one year where he finished like ninth
15:32in the Vezina Trophy voting.
15:34For him to even think he's going to get anything close to like what Andre Bazalewski gets paid,
15:38I think is outrageous.
15:40I think it's completely like on planet zippy.
15:43I don't think it's anywhere close to what is reasonable for what he should be getting
15:46paid.
15:47I think it's a difficult negotiation because there's not really any comparables that are
15:51making big money to Jeremy Swayman.
15:53The comparables are on the lower end.
15:55Like frankly, in my opinion, if he gets a four year deal and he ends up with, let's
16:00say four years, 28 million, 7 million per, I think that's the richest deal anybody's
16:05ever gotten in his situation before.
16:07And I think that's kind of more along the lines of what he should be looking at and
16:10what is reasonable.
16:11And that's not too far from four times 6.2, which is what the Bruins offered.
16:17You hear on the other side that it seems like people that talk to Swayman's camp say he's
16:21adamant that he doesn't want to lose this and he wants to win this negotiation because
16:26he's still salty and bitter about the arbitration thing that happened last year.
16:31And when I hear all of that, and I hear Don Sweeney talking about December 1st and sort
16:35of referencing when he has to sign and already talking about that the first day of training
16:40camp, I take all of these as big warning signs that people don't expect this to get done
16:45soon and that they're sort of bracing for something tough.
16:48And like the last time a guy held out that long in the NHL was William Nylander, who
16:52guess what, is represented by Louis Gross, the same guy who represents Swayman.
16:56So there's a track record here, too, of holdouts and hardcore negotiations.
17:00And I really don't, I feel like there's a lot of bad signs here, Dubbs, going forward
17:05that this isn't going to get resolved anytime soon.
17:06I know it can be done in a snap of a fingers if everybody decides to sort of meet in the
17:11middle or compromise, but I'm just not sure that's going to happen here.
17:15Yeah, I mean, and again, I've been through a million of these over the last 40 plus years
17:20and they can change in a second where the guy says, OK, I'll take it.
17:24So I don't I don't get as emotional as some people do here.
17:30You know, I'm talking about the fan base who, no matter what I'm writing these days, that
17:34the comment that gets attached to the Globe Digital story is, yeah, but what about Swayman?
17:38Right.
17:39They came out with that four times six point two figure within 48 hours after I wrote that
17:46the corresponding deal, in my mind, is Saros down in Nashville.
17:50His bridge deal, his bridge deal three or four years ago was four times five million.
17:56Right.
17:57I just looked at that and said, that's that's this guy.
17:59Yes.
18:00And the bridge deal for Jeremy Swayman, I felt was four times six million.
18:04Right.
18:05Yes.
18:06Doesn't mean I'm right, but that's how I conjured it.
18:08Yeah.
18:09So again, I don't get these figures from Don Sweeney or anybody in Bruins, so they don't
18:13talk to anybody.
18:14Wasn't Mark at the same deal in Boston?
18:17Three times 15.
18:18Yeah.
18:19Five million a year for three years.
18:20Yes.
18:21That's exactly what all Mark got.
18:22Yep.
18:23Oh, no.
18:24That's right.
18:25You're right.
18:26Yeah.
18:27Now, you know, if he wants to hold out, I think he can probably squeeze him for four
18:30times seven million.
18:31Right.
18:32I think that would be an excellent deal.
18:34Yes.
18:35You know, if we went the other way, guys, and we looked at Charlie McAvoy as the high
18:39water mark who they, you know, they've positioned him as a franchise defenseman.
18:44And in my mind, if you've got a franchise goalie, you know, not everybody agrees on
18:49this.
18:50But I think franchise goalies are worth what franchise defensemen are, even though they're
18:53not going to play eighty two.
18:57So is he nine point five at this stage of his career?
19:02I would say no, no way.
19:04But if he wants to go out to eight, I could see him getting eight.
19:07You know, if it's a long term deal, though, right.
19:10If it's like the max deal or close to.
19:12Yeah, I think so, too.
19:13Like I could see it because you're buying out free agent years.
19:16I could see that, you know, the number going up for sure.
19:18That's the base.
19:19I call it the basic Ottawa deal where everybody gets eight times eight million.
19:24I think they got five guys with that deal.
19:26Right.
19:27So if I'm Jeremy Swayman, frankly, I'd be looking at one and say, wait a minute.
19:30You know, I'm worth I'm worth that.
19:32And, you know, you can argue it.
19:34So in my mind, he's four years around six, five, six, eight somewhere or is he's he's
19:42eight years times eight.
19:43And all he has to do is say, yes, I want to take a break from the show to tell you about
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21:22Let me ask you this, guys, before Mick, before you get into your thoughts, does it start
21:28to become a concern or a warning sign in either of your minds that it seems like that arbitration
21:34experience last year seems to stick in his mind and seems to be problematic?
21:39Has that poisoned the waters to a degree where this is going to become really difficult?
21:43Is that something that becomes problematic because he can't seem to get over it?
21:48I'm not buying into any of that.
21:52I don't feel like that's Swayman's personality.
21:54I don't feel like I feel like he's the guy who educates himself and that's what he's
21:59going on.
22:00He's looking at his his graduate courses and business at Stanford and and all that he's
22:05doing right now.
22:06Tell him this is where the cap's going.
22:08This is where the league's going.
22:10The cap went up this year.
22:11It's going up some more.
22:12I see myself here.
22:14This is what I think I am on this team.
22:15I believe in myself.
22:17This is what I think I'm worth.
22:18Pay me.
22:19I think that's all it is.
22:23Well, I would say if he's it, I do, I do think he's he's wounded from the experience
22:29and what I would tell him then what I would tell Jared, not that he's asking me, but what
22:33I would tell him is talk to your agent.
22:35Your agent's been at this for 2025 years.
22:38When you go to arbitration, you've you've volunteered to jump into the septic tank.
22:44So don't expect to jump in there and not get filthy dirty because that's that's that's
22:50the exercise.
22:51Yeah.
22:52He's chosen.
22:53He, he, he, he, he, he checked the box.
22:57I'll take arbitration.
22:58Right.
22:59So if in the end you're wounded and you're hurt and I don't know that he is, I do know
23:04I think he's I do think he has that personality.
23:07I do know that there have been times his performance has been sort of questioned on a night.
23:13He doesn't like that.
23:14He bristles.
23:15Well, yeah, he he bristles, you know, and again, hey, that's the position that people
23:21are going to be overly critical.
23:24So, you know, in the end, he's going to have to he's going to have to make a basic business
23:30decision.
23:31He's going to have to park the ego and find out what number makes him happy.
23:36If not, overall, guys, the overarching December one is the date.
23:42And I, I truly believe a 25 year old kid isn't going to surrender a year's earning power
23:49in the end.
23:51I think that's their calculation.
23:52And if he if he wants to, to be blunt, piss away seven million dollars at age 25.
23:58I don't think that makes sense.
23:59Yeah.
24:00And and I but I do wonder and I like a couple of things.
24:03First of all, I agree.
24:05Like he does bristle at, you know, sort of critiquing type questions or anything like
24:11that sometimes.
24:12And I think I think that's and I do think he is there's a level of bitterness to the
24:16arbitration thing.
24:17There's no question.
24:18He's mentioned it multiple times.
24:20He's not going to mention that and go back to it like unsolicited when you're talking
24:23about something else, unless that's something that really bothers you.
24:26But I also think that's part of his makeup that has made him turn into like what he is
24:30as a goaltender.
24:31Like it's all part of the same package.
24:34There's no question about it.
24:36But I, I feel like if it turns into a December 1st thing and it turns into a he ends up signing
24:42because he doesn't want to lose the year service time, I feel like this turns into like him
24:47getting traded or him getting moved or, you know, them eventually saying, if you're not
24:51going to play ball with us, like we kind of have to make a message out of you or send
24:55a message and, you know, set and let everybody else know this is not how we negotiate.
25:02And like, you know, especially if Corpus Allo plays well, if Fussey plays well, like I could
25:07see a city that way with with McAvoy imposter.
25:11What's that?
25:12But they did negotiate that way with McAvoy.
25:14Neither one of them, neither one of them missed time like this, Mick.
25:17Those negotiations were like both of those guys agreed to their huge contracts in the
25:21middle of seasons.
25:22This was not something where they missed time when they signed their contracts like is what's
25:27going on with Swayman.
25:28I think the Swayman thing is totally different.
25:30Neither one of those negotiations really went public.
25:33Neither one of those negotiations led to a holdout where they were missing time.
25:36I don't think you can compare these to the other two because I think they're a completely
25:39different animal right now.
25:40I think Swayman is separating himself because of the tenor of the negotiations and because
25:45of the way it's going from everybody else in the team.
25:47Well, now we know that all these months, that's where it becomes problematic, all these months
25:53up until now.
25:55That doesn't apply.
25:56No, of course.
25:57But it doesn't matter that none of that matters now.
25:59What matters is what's happening right now and how it's been approached.
26:03You know, the last week, 10 days since camp started.
26:05And he's separated himself from everybody else in the team and the way that business
26:09has been done with the rest of the Bruins players, with Don Sweeney.
26:12And I think ultimately that's going to be a problem for Jeremy Swayman and Louis Gross.
26:15Well, I mean, I'll give a shout out to my pal Chris Hurley, who writes for Boston Hockey
26:21Now, who reminded me that Pat Burns once was quoted to say, and I think this was when Byron
26:26Defoe held out prior to the 99-2000 season, that I've never seen a holdout go well for
26:34the player or the team.
26:36Right.
26:38So, yeah, and going back to these things, these were almost regular in the 90s because
26:44we have pre-cap and there was rumblings leading up to the labor war and, you know, it all
26:50brings a tear to my eye.
26:51So all time Bruins hockey.
26:53Well, so I'll throw in the reminder here, we're two weeks from opening night, so, you
27:01know, there are holdouts and then there are guys who are just missing the first few days
27:06of camp.
27:07It could, it definitely could.
27:11But on all of that front, it's going to be interesting to see if and when it does get
27:16done.
27:17Let's say like Swayman, right before the season starts, like changes his mind, decides to
27:22go for a deal because he wants to play, doesn't want to miss any time.
27:25Like I think that's going to also have a negative impact on his performance in this year's team
27:29because, you know, he's going to have missed a lot of preparation time to get ready for
27:33the year.
27:35I frankly think he may take, and I fully believe in Jeremy Swayman as a number one goalie.
27:39I thought he should have been the guy starting the playoffs last year.
27:42Like I've been on in his camp and I believe in him as a goaltender.
27:45I just think he's really, really talented for the entire time he's been here.
27:51But I really feel like without, he's always had a Vezina Trophy winning goalie as his
27:56partner since he came into the being with the Bruins.
28:00He's either had Tuca, who was there at the very beginning next to him, and now he's had
28:03Omar for the last few years.
28:05Like I think there's going to be an adjustment period for him being the guy once he finally
28:09signs and is with the Bruins, playing more, having all the responsibility on his shoulders.
28:14If he goes into a mini slump, you can't hand it off to somebody that's equally as talented
28:19as you or, you know, as established as you as far as excellence.
28:23Like Corpozal is obviously an established NHL goalie, but he's not a Vezina Trophy candidate.
28:28You're not going to have that to rely on.
28:30And I think there's going to be an adjustment period for Swayman.
28:32He may struggle a little bit.
28:33And if it's a holdout that's part of the struggle, like that's going to change sort of, I think
28:38the way he's viewed too, as far as the fan base goes, as far as how much love he gets,
28:42like all that stuff.
28:43I think he's really, what he and his agent are doing right now, sort of, if they're part
28:49of it, because this obviously takes two to tango.
28:52But I think they're really risking a lot here with what they're doing as far as well being
28:56and good standing from the fans, as far as his performance.
29:00Like they're taking a big risk by doing, sticking their neck out this much to try to
29:04get big money.
29:05And I wonder if in a lot of ways it's going to end up backfiring on them.
29:09Sure.
29:10All of that, again, possible.
29:15As you were talking, I was thinking, what would you pay him on a one-year deal for the
29:19Bruins?
29:20What would you give him right now?
29:21Not much, because then he's UFA.
29:24Yeah.
29:25You'd probably have to give him six million, I would think.
29:27He was an all-star last year.
29:28He made three point something, right?
29:29Yeah.
29:31I was confused on this.
29:32So I reached out to my friend, Dom Tiano, and he graciously responded that had the Bruins
29:36taken Swayman to arbitration, and Swayman accepted a one-year deal, then he still would
29:42have been RFA.
29:43But Swayman would have had the option, having been taken arbitration, to choose two years,
29:47in which case he would be UFA.
29:50So arbitration was not a plausible choice for the Bruins, feasible, whatever the word
29:55is there.
29:56So they did not go to arbitration, not because they thought, this is the way we want to do
30:01this and it's better, because it absolutely was not an option.
30:05They don't want him to be UFA and be unhappy here.
30:08That's like saying goodbye with no compensation.
30:11That's also a non-starter scenario.
30:14So a bridge deal-
30:15You're saying, Mick, you're saying he's UFA in one year?
30:17If the Bruins, if he took a one-year deal, I think he's UFA.
30:23We'll be back to show in a minute, but let's thank our sponsors right here.
30:27And then right now we've got game time.
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30:51They won the game.
30:53And I honestly remember this game very vividly because I was 11 years old at the time.
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31:12And that was my first memory of going and seeing an NFL football game live.
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32:39What time is it?
32:40Game time.
32:42We've got Andy Brickley sighting.
32:46You there, Brick?
32:47I was looking your whole way, Brick.
32:48I'm here.
32:49Can you hear me?
32:50I'll speak to you in a second.
32:51What time is it, Brick?
32:52It's winning time.
32:53All right.
32:54Brick?
32:55Hey, I've got a big meeting at Nesson at 11.
32:56You're lucky I get on by 9.30.
32:57There you go.
32:58We are glad to have you, Brick.
33:03We have with us Nesson color analyst, distinguished NHL alum, Melrose sports legend, and all-around
33:08bomb Vivant, Andy Brickley here with us.
33:11He conquered his iPad issues, and he is now with us joining the show.
33:15Brick, we're in the middle of the Swayman discussion right now.
33:19Just sort of your take on where things are at.
33:23I was talking a little bit, and I see there are some concern signs here.
33:29Don Sweeney mentions December 1st a couple of times in the first day of training camp.
33:33That kind of lets you know that things are a little more serious as far as the gap and
33:39the concern about him missing time.
33:41It doesn't sound like there's a lot of progress.
33:44Obviously, I think there's a big divide as far as what you hear that Swayman and his
33:49agent want and what the Bruins are offering.
33:52Frankly, it's a difficult negotiation because he's a guy that's never played more than 44
33:57games.
33:58He's never been a serious Vezina Trophy candidate, all these things.
34:03It seems like what he's asking for, he would have to have all that stuff on his resume
34:07in order to garner that kind of money.
34:09It seems like there's a philosophical divide between these two sides.
34:13What's your concern level at right now with Swayman not being signed and sort of the tenor
34:17of negotiations to this point?
34:20My biggest concern, fellas, is the fact that he's not in camp.
34:23I know there are athletes that don't need training camp, and they can just come in at
34:27the beginning of the season.
34:28They can come in in the first month and still perform and be great players.
34:32I don't know if Jeremy Swayman fits into that category.
34:34I'd rather he was here because he's at that point in his career at 25, maybe if he was
34:39a 30-year-old guy, and he had been around, and he takes care of himself.
34:44I'm not saying Jeremy doesn't.
34:45I know he does.
34:46He just didn't have the veteran savvy to be able to do what I'm talking about, so I'd
34:51rather he was in camp.
34:53My initial feelings, my initial emotions are I'm disappointed.
34:57As soon as they made the OMAC trade, I thought this would be a done deal.
35:02They had all their ducks in a row, and they had an idea of what they wanted that goaltending
35:07tandem to be.
35:08I'm not sure they actually wanted Corpo Salo in return with that contract in order to get
35:13into the first round of the draft and get Kastelic in the deal as well.
35:20I thought Corpo Salo, if you watched the game last night, he looked pretty solid, and that
35:24would be a good tandem.
35:25I'm disappointed he's not in camp.
35:28Obviously, we're not in the room.
35:29Obviously, all we can do is speculate on where they're at, the divide, how big that divide
35:34is.
35:36What concerns me is, I take Jeremy for the genuine person that I think he is.
35:42Everything that he has said is how much he loves the culture, how much he loves being
35:45a Boston Bruin, how much he loves the fan base.
35:48This is where he wants to be, yet he has an agent that went through the same process a
35:52year ago, correct, up in Toronto?
35:57The arbitration case looms, and now you start to worry how much bad blood exists between
36:05the two sides trying to find common ground.
36:08I understand those that feel that if he's asking for $8 million, $9 million, $10 million,
36:14the resume is not there.
36:16If the Bruins are offering him less than market value, that's not the best way to negotiate.
36:21I just think there's just a very common ground somewhere, $7 million, $8 million, no more
36:26than $8 million, maybe a little more than $7 million.
36:29Peggs, I think I heard you mention at some point, I don't know, in one of our conversations,
36:33that's double his salary from a year ago.
36:36I think that's fair.
36:38Does he want $8 million?
36:39Does he want $7 million?
36:40I don't know.
36:41Terms, year, no movement, the agent, trade possibility.
36:47What if somebody comes along with an offer sheet?
36:52I think the Bruins have their picks, that they could make a deal with an offer sheet.
37:01That being said, I think the possibilities get a little scary when you're already two
37:06games into the exhibition schedule, and he's nowhere to be seen.
37:09Rick, could you have ever imagined when you were playing that someday somebody would term
37:14being paid $6.2 million a year to play in the NFL, a low-ball offer?
37:18Yeah.
37:19I remember when Gretz went to LA and, was it McNall, just said, here's a blank check,
37:24you fill it in.
37:25But, you know, Hags, I understand players, I understand the business side.
37:30I was a player rep, but I got involved on that end of it to learn.
37:34I didn't know what I wanted to do when I retired.
37:36Maybe I wanted to get into the agent business.
37:38I just wanted to know the business aspects of the game, just as a player, and what was
37:43happening between management and the union at that time.
37:47We were trying to become way more educated as a group, and a lot of things changed in
37:51that era.
37:52You know, late 80s, early 90s, there were some work stoppages, we had a lot of problems.
37:59Feelings were getting hurt, players were getting moved because of their involvement with the
38:02union and all that stuff.
38:04And good stories.
38:05I try to understand, as best I can, Swayman's situation.
38:09He feels like he has leverage.
38:11He feels like he has a hammer of sorts, and he doesn't know if he'll ever have it again
38:15in his career, and he's been convinced, or he's convinced himself, that this is necessary
38:21in order to achieve the goals that he's looking to achieve as far as the financial aspect
38:27of his career.
38:28I get that.
38:29Yeah.
38:30No, I think you can understand both sides, and where they're coming from, and that they
38:36have arguments in a lot of ways.
38:38That's what makes this a very difficult negotiation, is they both believe that they're right right
38:42now.
38:44And they both have some evidence to back that up, that they feel like they're on the correct
38:47side of things.
38:48And that sometimes can make it hard to meet in the middle.
38:52You hope at some point there is some kind of, whether it's, to your point, Brick, I
38:57think we all know Swayman loves Boston, he wants to be here.
38:59Maybe that becomes the overriding factor at some point, because we all know at some points
39:02the player can tell the agent, just get it done, I want to play.
39:06And sometimes that solves these things, and hopefully that ends up happening at some point.
39:11Before we move on to another, our last topic, just real quick, Brick, your thoughts from
39:16last night's exhibition game.
39:18Obviously, you know, really nice to see Lysell, Myrkulov, some of the young guys step up,
39:23and Korpisal will be good.
39:24I'm really interested to hear what you have to say about Myrkulov and what his pathway
39:27is.
39:28It's pretty obvious what Lysell needs to make happen, and how he improved from game one
39:33to two.
39:34Myrkulov was better than Lysell in game one, didn't improve as much in game two, more complicated
39:40player.
39:42How do you see Myrkulov?
39:48Comparing game one to game two was night and day, and I thought Jim Montgomery was fairly
39:52tactful in his criticism of nobody being noticeable in game one against the Rangers, in terms
39:59of those young guys that you kind of earmarked that had a chance to maybe even crack the
40:04top six for this Bruins team, because there's a need inside the top six for a skilled kind
40:09of player.
40:10And I thought they were much more noticeable in the game against the Washington Capitals.
40:16You know, Myrkulov, you can't picture him being in the bottom six, can you?
40:21He's not a bottom six makeup guy, so in order to be in the top six, he's got to have the
40:26puck, he's got to play with the puck, he's got to be creative, he's got to be impactful
40:30on the power play.
40:31He was a lot more noticeable in game two, so I'm glad that he responded to the criticism
40:38or the B.C. grade, or whatever you want to call it, that Montgomery and the coaching
40:42staff gave him.
40:44I think he's got a chance.
40:45I like his confidence.
40:47I like his skill set.
40:50I think he's a more complete player than, say, Fabian Lysell, so I think that gives
40:55him a better chance.
40:57Does he have to play the middle?
40:58I don't know.
40:59Maybe.
41:00I don't know if he can play wing in the NHL and drive a line from the wing.
41:05I thought Lysell was a lot more noticeable, loved his power play goal.
41:08That was a skill goal all the way.
41:09There were still times where, you know, the simple giveaway, but I thought his details
41:14were much better.
41:15He's much more noticeable.
41:16He competed harder.
41:17He skated better.
41:18You know, that first game, I don't know what he was doing.
41:20He was skating in the traffic, he wasn't moving, he was giving the puck away, so improvement
41:25from those two.
41:26I like Partra's game.
41:28I like to see, you know, I think Monty said he held on to the puck, looked to make plays
41:32in the offensive zone.
41:34For me, a guy like Partra, it's about speed, pace of play.
41:39It's about edge work.
41:40It's about leverage, how to use your body, how to protect yourself when you get hit.
41:45You know, a lot of guys that make the jump from junior or college, you've got to learn
41:49how to take body contact.
41:51You have to learn how to invite the contact and know how to spin off it so you don't get
41:54hit.
41:55Martian.
41:56And I think I saw a little bit more of that from Partra.
41:58So those three young guys, those were kind of our storylines on Neston to watch them.
42:02But I was really interested in Tyler Johnson.
42:05I was really interested in Paul Pasalo.
42:06I was interested in Brazzo.
42:08Those were the guys that I was focused on last night to see where they're at, what their
42:12camp's going to be like.
42:14I don't think, even a guy like Brazzo, I don't think he's going to be handed a job.
42:18He's going to have to come in and earn it.
42:19I like what I saw from him.
42:21He seems like that type of kid that's going to grab this opportunity and make the most
42:26of it.
42:27And I think the young guys should be doing exactly the same.
42:30So I like the improvement from game one to game two in the exhibition schedule, but I'm
42:37still waiting for somebody to really pop to say, you know, this kid's going to get a look
42:42right up until October 8th and have a chance to crack this lineup.
42:47I don't think we're there yet.
42:48Do you?
42:49No.
42:50I think you're waiting for the Matt Partra of last year, right?
42:54That kind of a performance.
42:55Yeah, yeah.
42:56Will he just take the bull by the horns and seize it?
42:57No, definitely not.
42:59Good step forward in the right direction, certainly for Lysell, who I think they really
43:04want to look at as a potential right-wing guy.
43:08There's only so many guys that the Bruins have in their system that could potentially
43:11replace the skill and game-breaking ability that DeBrusque had when he left.
43:16And he's one of those guys that maybe potentially has some of that skill and that ability.
43:21So it'll be interesting.
43:23I like when those guys get an opportunity to play with bona fide NHL offensive talent.
43:29I mean, you also have to consider that.
43:32Who am I playing with?
43:34What kind of players are they?
43:36Are we a good mix?
43:37Do they understand the art of the give-and-go?
43:39Do they understand how to isolate players and create two-on-ones?
43:42Do they understand the triangle offense and how to create offense once you enter the offense?
43:47Those are the things that you try to ... I remember, I mean, I was one of those guys
43:51that hated training camp.
43:52I still wanted to be playing baseball in September and October.
43:55So I remember those days and there were times when I was in a situation where I'm trying
44:00to make the big club and I'm playing with guys that are going to chip and chase or they're
44:04just going to run people or, you know what I mean?
44:07And I'm like, God, how am I going to make this squad?
44:10Like, now I got to worry about being third guy high and winning face-offs or something.
44:15Remember with Bonk?
44:16Remember with Yashin?
44:17Or I'm going to be creative offensively to show what I can do.
44:19So there's some of that, too, that has to be considered when you're evaluating these guys.
44:22Berk, you remember when Ottawa broke in Yashin and Alexander Degg and Radek Bonk and they
44:27had all three guys on separate lines playing with career pluggers?
44:32And so they didn't ever have a chance to do anything chemistry-wise.
44:36It was all about learning NHL work ethic.
44:39That was it.
44:40Yeah.
44:41Yeah.
44:42Yeah, you know, it's ... I try to talk to the coaching staff and the whole evaluation
44:47process at camp.
44:48You know, Monty talked about, after game one, that trying to get his team ready for opening
44:53night.
44:54You know, try to build the team game.
44:55Try to build the team game.
44:56But you still have to evaluate.
44:57You know, he's on the bench trying to evaluate individual players.
45:00And you watch the tape, you have a collaborative with the other coaches, the Providence coaches
45:05that saw the habits that these guys had over the last year or two when you talk about the
45:09younger players.
45:10You know, you got Donnie, you got Cam, you got scouts.
45:13Everybody's in camp and everybody's got, you know, at least two cents when they meet.
45:17So I'm always curious.
45:19Love to be in the room when they have those evaluation sessions on what they're looking
45:24for, what they see, what they like, what they don't like, and how that person's skill set
45:30fits to what the team that they're trying to create is going to be.
45:35You mentioned Monty.
45:37That's real quick.
45:38Last subject we're going to talk about.
45:40He addressed his contract and contract talks on the first day of training camp.
45:46It's believed he'd signed, I don't know this for certainty, he signed a three-year deal
45:49when he was hired.
45:50So maybe he's going into the last year of his deal.
45:54This is what he said.
45:55And Don Swinney had said they've had talks on a new contract.
45:57I don't think it would affect me.
45:59Just being honest.
46:00I love being a Bruin.
46:01I think I'm very fortunate to be head coach of the Boston Bruins.
46:03My focus when I am the Boston Bruins coach is staying in the present and just getting
46:07better every day.
46:08I know it sounds cliche, but I can't allow myself to think about the future because I'd
46:11be a little bit of a hypocrite because I'm asking our players to always stay in the moment.
46:15I have to stay in the moment.
46:16That's the way I look at things.
46:17It doesn't matter if I have an eight-year contract or a one-day contract.
46:20That's the way I proceed.
46:21That's my process.
46:22I think that's the perfect answer and the right answer for Jim Montgomery to have for
46:26that question.
46:27Dupes, is there any concern if he doesn't have a contract in hand and he goes into this
46:31season and if it is potentially the last year of his deal, just that situation going into
46:37the season?
46:39It can be awkward, but I think based on their mutual responses, it felt to me like the thing
46:47is baking.
46:48I'd be surprised if it doesn't happen.
46:51I certainly don't think Jim Montgomery is the type of guy who'd make it an issue, a
46:55public issue especially.
46:58One of his great points that we've all looked past, at least I have very quickly, he had
47:04a very tough act to follow here and didn't blink.
47:10There wasn't the slightest hiccup.
47:12They came in and had that great 65 wins.
47:18I don't know why they'd look at it, and again, I could apply this logic to Bruce Cassidy
47:24who got turfed in the middle of the summer there or early in the summer when I least
47:29expected it.
47:31I don't see it becoming an issue.
47:32I think he'll sign an extension.
47:34I also don't think it will be much of a brouhaha just because of the personalities involved.
47:41The roster is not, it was an old guard roster of guys who'd been around forever, who were
47:47sort of running everything, and even in Marchand's case, he's so cognizant, such a good captain
47:53to look after all these aspects when making comment on anything.
47:57He's so aware of his surroundings and what a young emerging team this is and how he needs
48:03to be.
48:04So I think that the climate in the room is usually the players, that's usually what decides
48:09how that coach is going to be in the last year of a deal.
48:14Any concerns, Brick?
48:15A couple of thoughts.
48:17First of all, going back to Bruce Cassidy, I was so far behind the narrative that he
48:22was going to get let go.
48:24When people mention that in the offseason, I'm like, what are you talking about?
48:28This guy's a great coach, and he's old school, which makes me like him even more.
48:34I get times change, and athletes change, and hockey players are in that category, and you
48:39have to coach differently.
48:40I get that.
48:41I played for tyrants when I played, just the way it was.
48:46But I like the way Cassidy coached, and I thought he got results, and I thought he would
48:50be a winner eventually here in Boston.
48:52So I was so far behind that narrative that he was going to get let go.
48:55I couldn't believe it when it happened.
48:56I think we all were.
48:57So that's my naivete.
48:59But as far as Monty and my opportunity to get to know him over the last couple of years,
49:03I love his no fear attitude.
49:06I talked to people that played with him, I've seen stories on when he played, and the way
49:11he delivered at crunch time, and how he took ownership of that team, and was like a coach
49:17on the ice.
49:18And that's the way he coaches.
49:19He has no fear at all about what he's doing, and the belief in his ability to get the most
49:24out of his players, and to play winning hockey.
49:27And I admire that.
49:29And he seems to be really in touch with what's most important to these athletes today, in
49:35order to make sure that the lines of communication are open, and that he's going to get the most
49:40out of you, and that there are no mind games, no head games.
49:44It's brutal honesty at times, but it's delivered the right way, that you don't lose the player.
49:52And I fully expect him to be on board for multiple years to come.
49:57Very good, Brick.
49:58Thank you very much for joining us, Brick.
50:00I'm glad you got here.
50:01Dupes.
50:02Yeah.
50:03Thank you very much for joining us as well.
50:04Let's all do this again real soon.
50:06I do want to thank our sponsors real quick.
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50:50Rick, Dupes, Mick, thank you very much for joining us today.
50:54Pleasure.
50:55Thanks, Hanks.
50:56Good to see you, boys.
50:57Everybody else, we'll see you at the ring.