I Might Forgive... But I Don't Forget- Full Conversation with Jay -Jeezy- Jenkins & Nia Long
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00:00:00 (upbeat music)
00:00:02 - My grandmother was very religious.
00:00:17 She made me go to church and Sunday school
00:00:20 and Easter speeches and all that.
00:00:22 I didn't realize it then,
00:00:23 I just went because I was supposed to be going.
00:00:24 - Yeah. - Right?
00:00:25 But it came to some points in my life
00:00:27 where things just happened that were so real
00:00:29 that there was nowhere else to go but with God.
00:00:34 - What was the activation moment of trauma for you?
00:00:37 - I think there was several things.
00:00:39 I think that the first was being left with a babysitter.
00:00:43 There was a woman that was older than me.
00:00:46 I mean, it was older and her, you know,
00:00:51 touching and doing things to me
00:00:52 that don't normally happen to kids.
00:00:54 - Like molesting. - Right, basically.
00:00:56 So I was introduced to sex at very young age.
00:01:00 - Really young. - Yeah.
00:01:00 Second thing was that I had this lady
00:01:03 that lived next door to us in an apartment.
00:01:05 She was married to this guy.
00:01:06 They had two kids. - Yeah.
00:01:07 - And it was around my age and I used to hang out with them.
00:01:09 And I was there one day and I remember like it was yesterday
00:01:13 they got into an argument. - Yeah.
00:01:15 - And me and the little boys was playing in the room
00:01:19 and I heard him, you know, and I heard that saying before,
00:01:21 yeah, you wait till I get back, I'll be right back.
00:01:25 And I kind of looked at the boys, I'm like, yo, you know,
00:01:27 and sure enough, he came running upstairs
00:01:30 and he went in the closet, right?
00:01:32 And when he was going in the closet,
00:01:33 he was coming through the closet
00:01:35 and I saw when he pulled it out,
00:01:36 it was like a big, like it had to be like a silver 357.
00:01:40 - Oh my God. - And I looked at them
00:01:41 and I immediately was like, yo, we gotta hide.
00:01:44 - Yeah, but why did you know to hide?
00:01:47 - Because I had been around that before growing up.
00:01:49 So I went and climbed under the sink in the bathroom
00:01:55 and hid and I heard some yelling and all I heard was.
00:01:59 (man clapping)
00:02:00 - He killed his, the wife?
00:02:02 - He didn't kill her, he shot her like four times.
00:02:04 - Oh my God. - Right?
00:02:05 And he ran, left us there.
00:02:09 My mom and dad came looking for me.
00:02:11 Eventually they found me under the sink
00:02:14 and the police had everything, it was there,
00:02:16 but I just, you know, they just stuck with me, right?
00:02:19 And before I was eight, I had already accepted
00:02:24 this is the norm, right?
00:02:26 I was already desensitized.
00:02:28 - At eight years old?
00:02:29 - Yeah, I was already thinking like, okay,
00:02:31 this is what life is and it gave me this thing
00:02:34 to like always like protect myself, right?
00:02:37 - Yeah, yeah, 'cause nothing felt safe.
00:02:40 Do you have siblings at this point?
00:02:41 - My brother died when he was younger.
00:02:43 - What did it do to your mother?
00:02:44 - I mean, my mom had a like very toxic relationship.
00:02:47 - You and your mom? - Yes.
00:02:49 My sister's my little sister, right?
00:02:51 But I call her my little big sister
00:02:54 because she's probably the only person
00:02:55 that can talk sense into.
00:02:56 - My relationship with my father was probably very toxic.
00:03:00 - How so?
00:03:01 - Well, because he wasn't there.
00:03:03 - Okay.
00:03:04 - I didn't have the example of what a family
00:03:07 was supposed to look like.
00:03:08 - Right.
00:03:09 - The first thing before you marry someone,
00:03:10 it's like, what is his relationship like with his mother?
00:03:13 - I feel like my mother, it came from her
00:03:18 not being raised right.
00:03:19 Very violent, very verbal, very cold.
00:03:22 I just remember that I was kind of on the outside
00:03:26 because I looked so much like my father.
00:03:28 They divorced and all I know is my father
00:03:31 just told me straight up,
00:03:31 he'll never trust another woman again,
00:03:33 which made me go, shit.
00:03:34 - Well, what was that about?
00:03:35 - Because whatever happened between them hurt him.
00:03:38 - So one was not feeling safe and protected
00:03:41 when you were molested.
00:03:42 - Right.
00:03:43 - Two was a void of love and compassion
00:03:45 and acceptance from your mom.
00:03:47 - Yeah.
00:03:48 - And the third one was, okay,
00:03:49 now I'm gonna completely disconnect from myself here
00:03:52 because there is no love here
00:03:54 and I'm gonna go to the streets
00:03:56 and I'm gonna hustle and I'm gonna make money
00:03:58 and I'm gonna prove that I'm worthy of this love
00:04:01 and I'm gonna be somebody.
00:04:02 - When I left my mother's house,
00:04:03 I had to be about 13, 14 maybe.
00:04:05 - Yeah.
00:04:06 - And the reason why I left,
00:04:07 because she pulled a gun on me, right?
00:04:08 And basically told me like, you know,
00:04:10 you're gonna either do what I say
00:04:12 or I'm gonna take you out of this world type thing.
00:04:15 I was just like, you're on the school bus.
00:04:15 - Why was she so hard?
00:04:17 - I don't really know her father like that.
00:04:19 And as I get older, I start to realize that
00:04:22 you just never know what somebody went through.
00:04:25 You know, one thing I love about my mother,
00:04:26 she was spicy.
00:04:27 - Uh-huh.
00:04:28 - Like she got a tongue that can cut
00:04:31 half the world down.
00:04:32 - I love it.
00:04:33 So I'm raising boys.
00:04:34 - Right.
00:04:35 - It's very interesting when you
00:04:40 are trying to get that young boy to be a man
00:04:43 and to go out into the world.
00:04:45 And I would say that I do a good job
00:04:49 of being present with them.
00:04:50 - Right.
00:04:51 - But then there's that part of me where I'm like,
00:04:54 I don't wanna raise mama's boys.
00:04:56 - I got an option to go to this bootcamp.
00:04:59 And in that camp, I was able to get my GED,
00:05:01 learn life skills.
00:05:03 - Okay.
00:05:04 - And a bunch of different things.
00:05:05 It was my first time being pulled away
00:05:08 from my environment, right?
00:05:11 So it definitely gave me time to think about,
00:05:14 you know, what I wanted to do with my life,
00:05:16 where I wanted to go.
00:05:16 And it was a different type of experience
00:05:18 because it was like a lot of structure.
00:05:21 Something that I wasn't used to.
00:05:22 And it's crazy 'cause I'll never forget,
00:05:24 it was one of the times that I was there
00:05:27 and I was getting ready to get out.
00:05:28 But I remember we went on a field trip
00:05:31 'cause it was near water.
00:05:33 And I remember just being on a military ship,
00:05:35 like, you know, 'cause the waves were crashing against it.
00:05:37 I was just like, I don't wanna go back home.
00:05:39 I might just shit jump.
00:05:41 - Really?
00:05:42 - Yeah.
00:05:43 And I thought about it a few times.
00:05:46 It was so real.
00:05:47 That's probably the only time in my life
00:05:48 where I ever felt that low,
00:05:50 that I felt like this could be the end for me.
00:05:52 - Yeah.
00:05:53 - And, you know, I buckled back down, I came home,
00:05:56 and I definitely turned my hustle up.
00:05:59 Like, I just went about it as a business.
00:06:02 And this is around the time that I had my son.
00:06:05 And he made me focus on becoming a man.
00:06:11 - We are born as beings meant to be here to love.
00:06:14 - Right, that's the crazy thing though,
00:06:16 because as I say here at 46, I can tell you that.
00:06:21 - Yeah.
00:06:21 - But I can't honestly tell you that I've experienced love,
00:06:25 especially non-conditional.
00:06:26 Like, I couldn't tell you that.
00:06:28 It was always something to it.
00:06:30 - Well, maybe you had to get open to it first
00:06:32 to heal it, to attract it.
00:06:34 - Well, I mean, you know,
00:06:35 when you're coming up in a family, right,
00:06:39 there should be at least a baseline of health.
00:06:42 - Yes.
00:06:43 - And just healthy, you know, just conversation, right?
00:06:47 And I can say that I probably got more love in the streets
00:06:52 than I did when I was,
00:06:54 and that's one of the reasons why I love my grandmother
00:06:56 so much, because she was the only person that I can recall.
00:06:59 My dad's folks was a little more common.
00:07:03 - Yeah.
00:07:03 - My mom's folks, they weren't playing the radio.
00:07:06 - Is your mom still alive?
00:07:07 - No, my mom passed.
00:07:08 My mom passed during COVID.
00:07:10 She had dementia.
00:07:11 - So my dad, same.
00:07:13 My dad passed away the day after Kobe Bryant.
00:07:15 - Crazy thing is when she was there
00:07:17 and I was going to visit her,
00:07:19 and when she had dementia,
00:07:22 it was a little crazy because I couldn't really,
00:07:25 'cause I was trying to get to a space
00:07:26 where I can forgive her.
00:07:28 I used to try to talk to her,
00:07:29 and then, you know, my mom's smart,
00:07:31 even if she had dementia.
00:07:33 It's like, when I started talking about the hard stuff,
00:07:34 she started like, you know,
00:07:36 acting like she don't really understand what I'm saying.
00:07:38 - She didn't want to talk about it.
00:07:39 It was too painful for her.
00:07:40 - Yeah, you know, I love my mother.
00:07:43 You know what I'm saying?
00:07:44 - Of course you do.
00:07:45 - And I think I spent most of my life,
00:07:48 and which is probably one of the reasons
00:07:49 why I'm successful.
00:07:50 - Yeah.
00:07:51 - It was trying to prove that I'm enough.
00:07:54 And every time I got to a milestone,
00:07:58 there was no fulfillment there, right?
00:08:00 - Because she didn't acknowledge.
00:08:02 - She didn't acknowledge it.
00:08:03 (upbeat music)
00:08:06 (upbeat music)
00:08:08 - I can say this, you know,
00:08:20 lately I've definitely been on my journey.
00:08:22 So I've done a lot of work.
00:08:24 One of my uncles just passed,
00:08:25 and he's one of my favorite uncles.
00:08:28 Everybody who knows my music know I talk about him.
00:08:30 He's my first uncle that gave me $20.
00:08:32 And I've flipped it a zillion times,
00:08:34 and that's how I'm here.
00:08:35 - Yeah.
00:08:36 - And his name was Bo Slick,
00:08:37 and he gave me his disability check.
00:08:39 He passed last month.
00:08:42 - Oh, that must've been tough.
00:08:44 - It's crazy because I went to the funeral home
00:08:48 in our hometown,
00:08:49 and I went and saw him, right?
00:08:55 And I hadn't seen him in a while.
00:08:57 And he had a smirk on his face,
00:09:00 and I was like, "Little Slick, he's still giving him hell.
00:09:02 Boy, he think it's funny."
00:09:03 - Yeah.
00:09:04 - He gone home.
00:09:04 Because he was laying in the exact same place,
00:09:07 the last place I saw my mom.
00:09:08 And so on the way back,
00:09:10 I tell my driver, I give him my address,
00:09:13 and I say, "Yo, take me to this address."
00:09:15 And we pull up, it's like an old church.
00:09:17 And my sister has it set up nice out there.
00:09:19 When we set it up nice, where my mom's buried,
00:09:21 we got like a bench and all these things.
00:09:23 She has a crown and stuff, so it's really beautiful.
00:09:26 - Yeah.
00:09:27 - And it's peaceful.
00:09:28 And I went out there because I had some life changes
00:09:30 that was going on.
00:09:31 And I just, I wrote her a letter on the way there,
00:09:34 and I sat down and I read the letter to her.
00:09:36 I told her about her new granddaughter,
00:09:39 how amazing, beautiful she was.
00:09:41 I told her that I'm working on my relationship with my son,
00:09:45 and we're in a kind of cool place.
00:09:47 I told her about my middle daughter
00:09:49 and how beautiful she's turning out.
00:09:51 I told her about my life changes
00:09:53 and the things that I'm concerned about,
00:09:56 some of my fears, you know what I'm saying?
00:09:58 And I basically forgave her.
00:10:01 - Ooh, that's good.
00:10:02 - And the basis of the letter was to tell her,
00:10:04 you know, everything that was going on in my life.
00:10:06 And, you know, even if she's not proud, I understand.
00:10:10 - What did you say in the moment of forgiveness?
00:10:13 - I understand what it's like to raise a rebellious kid.
00:10:17 I understand what it's like to have your own wounds,
00:10:22 your work that she need to do, right?
00:10:24 And she didn't get a chance to do that.
00:10:26 And I understand that maybe she had a different way
00:10:30 of loving me that I didn't understand, right?
00:10:33 And 'cause my mom the type of,
00:10:36 if I go to the basketball court and get jumped,
00:10:37 she gonna take me around there to fight everybody one-on-one.
00:10:40 - Me too.
00:10:40 I'm taking my kids too.
00:10:41 - She like, "Come on, him first, him second, him third."
00:10:44 - And I got your back and the Vaseline's in the car
00:10:46 and I'm gonna take my earrings off and let's go.
00:10:49 - Yeah, that's her.
00:10:50 - But do you understand that that was her way of loving you?
00:10:53 - Well, this is what happened.
00:10:55 And this was, I'm gonna keep it a book.
00:10:58 This was like, I was in LA,
00:11:00 so this was like maybe two nights ago
00:11:04 or early morning meditation, meditating.
00:11:10 And I was meditating and I had a vision that I saw my mom.
00:11:15 And I was talking to her, was just talking.
00:11:22 And I just asked her, I said,
00:11:30 I forgive you, but can you forgive me?
00:11:33 - For?
00:11:35 - Not for taking what she gave me and embodying that, right?
00:11:40 And having that same type of energy.
00:11:45 Because when my mother died, I didn't grieve, right?
00:11:48 I didn't cry. - You didn't grieve at all.
00:11:50 - I didn't nothing. - Not at all.
00:11:52 - And I asked her to forgive me
00:11:55 for not sending her off right.
00:11:58 And one thing I learned about life now is that I,
00:12:03 even if somebody treats you wrong, right?
00:12:07 It's how you react or respond.
00:12:11 - Absolutely. - Right.
00:12:12 - That's been the biggest lesson for me.
00:12:14 - And I can't look at what she did to me
00:12:17 and then react, right?
00:12:20 My response is what we had.
00:12:23 And I promise you, like I sat there
00:12:26 and I explained to her, you know,
00:12:28 the things that affected me
00:12:29 and why I couldn't connect at that moment.
00:12:32 And that, you know, she asked me for forgiveness,
00:12:36 but I wanted her to forgive me.
00:12:39 It's like we left in a gray space, right?
00:12:42 She doesn't know how I feel.
00:12:44 I don't know how she feels.
00:12:45 I promise you, it was like this pain.
00:12:49 Like it was like somebody like stabbing you in the chest
00:12:52 with a pitchfork or something.
00:12:56 And it was just like hurt so bad.
00:12:58 And when she told me that she understood,
00:13:03 I started to feel it dissolve.
00:13:05 - When you get to a place where you can forgive,
00:13:09 even when there's pain involved, that's freedom.
00:13:13 - It's so tricky 'cause I promise you,
00:13:16 like I'm a liberal, so I'm like a very balanced
00:13:19 and fair person, but 99.9% of the people
00:13:25 I've let in my life have wronged or did something
00:13:29 that I just was like, wow.
00:13:31 And it could be anyone from any day.
00:13:34 So it was always just that.
00:13:36 And I go back to that instance when I was in that,
00:13:40 under that cabinet, you feel what I'm saying?
00:13:44 It's just like, you feel that.
00:13:46 And I imagine going through that, you know,
00:13:48 throughout your life.
00:13:49 And that's what I have to tell people.
00:13:50 Like, I don't think people understand that.
00:13:52 It's like, when you tell people you lost this many people,
00:13:55 they look at it like you're exaggerating,
00:13:57 but you gotta really think about it.
00:13:58 Let's just say Tupac.
00:14:00 Tupac was 25, 26 when he died.
00:14:02 Imagine how many people he lost
00:14:04 if he ever sat down and told you, I'm double his age.
00:14:08 I live past him.
00:14:09 So I've lived four or five different lives.
00:14:12 - As you had these different versions of self, right?
00:14:17 Did you feel connected to the experience
00:14:22 or did you have an awareness to say,
00:14:24 I know that what I'm doing is wrong,
00:14:26 but this is what I have to do to survive?
00:14:29 - Well, this is the thing.
00:14:32 I learned my gifts early on.
00:14:34 - Yeah.
00:14:35 - I was a visionary because I always see things.
00:14:37 And I noticed that I was a disrupter
00:14:39 because I find myself going with the not so popular decision
00:14:43 but I know what's right in my heart
00:14:46 and I'm a problem solver.
00:14:47 And going backwards, like God gave me a gift.
00:14:51 I understand that because he kept me safe.
00:14:53 He kept me alive.
00:14:54 He kept me free and he made me successful in a sense.
00:14:57 I hadn't gave anything back to him yet,
00:14:58 which is why I lost my voice
00:15:00 'cause I tore my vocal cords in the beginning of my career,
00:15:03 which is why I sat in my-
00:15:04 - How did you do that?
00:15:05 - Not knowing how to perform and tore my vocal cords.
00:15:09 - Did you have to have an operation?
00:15:10 - Yeah, and I didn't have insurance.
00:15:12 I got three Lamborghinis and no insurance.
00:15:14 - Yeah, I see that.
00:15:15 - I had insurance on my cars
00:15:16 and didn't have insurance on me.
00:15:17 I had to pay for it with a brown paper bag.
00:15:19 After that, I did my praying.
00:15:20 He got me out of it.
00:15:22 And then I got hit with a bell spousy.
00:15:26 And my face was crooked.
00:15:29 That's like one of the last time I talked to my mother
00:15:30 'cause I told her I was scared.
00:15:31 I was like, I don't think my face will ever go back again
00:15:34 'cause it was like crooked.
00:15:36 - But do you remember what happened when,
00:15:38 'cause you know, that's an emotional nerve thing.
00:15:41 - Well, I wasn't taking care of myself.
00:15:44 I was drinking Cristal for breakfast and Waffle House.
00:15:47 Yeah, I was 260.
00:15:50 I was just in bad shape.
00:15:51 I got an album out, just doing well.
00:15:54 I'm going around the world.
00:15:55 I'm at war.
00:15:57 You know what I'm saying?
00:15:58 I'm losing friends left and right.
00:15:59 I'm at war with people who have, you know,
00:16:01 at the time way more money than I did,
00:16:03 more influence and power.
00:16:04 And it's like, I'm just holding my own, right?
00:16:06 - Again, under that sink.
00:16:08 - And it's just like the same people that told me
00:16:09 they was my brothers and now they trying to kill me.
00:16:11 Like, imagine that, right?
00:16:13 And this ain't like around the corner.
00:16:15 This is state to state, right?
00:16:16 So now I'm dealing with all this
00:16:18 and I'm trying to navigate it.
00:16:20 And, you know, God got me out of that again.
00:16:24 - Look, I think it's really important for black men
00:16:27 and black women to have these conversations.
00:16:29 I don't think we have these conversations enough.
00:16:32 And I think it's a really tragic place
00:16:35 when there's a person who's afraid of intimacy, right?
00:16:38 Because intimacy is the trigger
00:16:40 in which we can actually start to unpack ourselves.
00:16:43 Are you guarded?
00:16:44 'Cause you seem guarded.
00:16:45 - Yeah, very.
00:16:46 One thing is my relationships have been
00:16:48 very much on the surface
00:16:51 when I started losing a lot of people, right?
00:16:54 'Cause you don't want to get to it.
00:16:55 - Are you talking about love relationships
00:16:56 or homies, like people?
00:16:58 - Homies and then even love relationships I've been in
00:17:01 where, you know, people just ain't right.
00:17:04 - You do realize, and I've had to learn this too
00:17:07 'cause I can be guarded as well, right?
00:17:10 Is if you are carrying that, you attract that.
00:17:15 - So if someone else is guarded
00:17:17 or someone else is not being their full authentic self,
00:17:21 it's because in some sort of way we haven't settled in.
00:17:25 And I think it's really hard to do
00:17:30 when you're in the industry that we're in
00:17:32 because everything about this industry tells you
00:17:35 you have to be a certain version of yourself
00:17:38 that people expect you to be.
00:17:39 - But see, that's the thing.
00:17:40 See, I go even farther back
00:17:44 because my situation's a dire, right?
00:17:48 Because if you're not guarded-
00:17:49 - Then you're dead.
00:17:51 - There you go.
00:17:52 And you know, if you're not guarded and you're not smart,
00:17:55 then you end up in prison.
00:17:56 If you're not guarded, you're not smart,
00:17:58 then you're up in these situations where, you know,
00:18:00 you're on the losing end.
00:18:02 Then going into music, it didn't make it any better
00:18:05 because now these, this same type of energy follows you.
00:18:08 - Now you're an ass.
00:18:08 - But see, that's the thing.
00:18:11 That's where the imposter syndrome get reversed
00:18:15 because it's not me wanting to be like them,
00:18:18 it's them wanting to be like me.
00:18:21 I'm the truth.
00:18:21 I ain't his daddy, his cousin, his uncle, his brother.
00:18:24 I'm him.
00:18:25 Like there's nobody that I know that's walked this path
00:18:28 of life that I walked that can stand while I stand
00:18:31 and say I did the things that I did.
00:18:32 Anybody who really has common sense knows that, right?
00:18:35 But I want to ask you, how do you know that I'm guarded
00:18:38 just by having this conversation?
00:18:39 - 'Cause I'm from where you from and I see it.
00:18:41 Game recognize game.
00:18:42 Game recognize game.
00:18:44 - I see you're guarded too though a little bit.
00:18:47 - Well, I'm, yeah, I am.
00:18:49 I'm guarded.
00:18:50 - What would make you guarded?
00:18:51 - Don't fuck with my kids.
00:18:52 That's like off limits.
00:18:55 Not even a little bit.
00:18:58 And if you do, you will hear from me.
00:19:01 That comes from me not always feeling safe as little Nia
00:19:05 and me not wanting my children to ever not feel like
00:19:08 they don't have me active in their lives as their safety.
00:19:12 - I love my son.
00:19:13 I think he's an amazing guy.
00:19:14 I think he's very charismatic.
00:19:16 I think he got all the things,
00:19:17 but I think that the way I've tried to love him
00:19:20 over the years was totally wrong.
00:19:22 Not his love language for one.
00:19:24 And I think the things that I instilled in him
00:19:26 as a youngster, you know, doesn't serve him now.
00:19:31 - You know, I had a really public breakup recently.
00:19:35 It was a wake up call for me in the sense of like,
00:19:38 okay, you're gonna do this on your own
00:19:43 and you're gonna be fine.
00:19:44 And you're not gonna worry about what anyone thinks
00:19:46 and has to say.
00:19:47 'Cause the relationship was rocky for a very long time.
00:19:50 So, 'cause I don't believe another person
00:19:52 can break anyone up.
00:19:54 Like I just don't, I don't buy that, right?
00:19:57 To your point with your son,
00:19:58 I think my older son saw me trying to,
00:20:03 trying to keep the family together.
00:20:08 But I had to come to a place where loving myself
00:20:13 was bigger and more important than saving anybody.
00:20:24 - Well, if you can't, if you gotta save your star player,
00:20:26 if your star player is not doing good, the team is--
00:20:28 - Can we not talk players?
00:20:29 Can we use a different, can we say like,
00:20:32 best horse in the race?
00:20:33 (laughing)
00:20:36 - Oh my God.
00:20:38 - But the reason I know that you're guarded
00:20:41 is 'cause when I was in high school,
00:20:43 I only dated drug dealers.
00:20:44 - Oh really?
00:20:45 - Oh my God, that's where I was.
00:20:47 I lived in South Central LA, that's what it was.
00:20:49 - Wow, I would have never thought that.
00:20:51 - Really?
00:20:52 - Nah, but going through your trials and tribulations,
00:20:57 I know you're working on yourself like we all are.
00:20:59 Do you feel that you're okay?
00:21:03 Like not what people are supposed to see
00:21:06 and supposed to think, you.
00:21:08 - I think I'm exactly where I need to be,
00:21:12 which is some days I'm like totally good.
00:21:15 And then other days I'm like,
00:21:17 oh God, this feels like so much work.
00:21:19 - I feel that.
00:21:20 - And then other days it feels like
00:21:23 women shouldn't have to be this strong.
00:21:28 - Right.
00:21:29 - I don't wanna be this strong sometimes.
00:21:31 - Right.
00:21:31 - Okay, you made me cry.
00:21:34 - I got you first.
00:21:35 But you're good though.
00:21:37 - No, I'm good.
00:21:39 I mean, listen, it is what it is.
00:21:42 - I mean, life is a funny thing
00:21:44 because I always saw myself,
00:21:47 my vision of myself was
00:21:48 well-manicured man, good skin,
00:21:55 wedding band, playing Jane White,
00:21:57 so you know I'm wearing this right now.
00:21:58 - That's not playing Jane, by the way.
00:22:00 That's very reminiscent of Hustler days.
00:22:03 - I feel, you know--
00:22:04 - That's a little Hustler-y.
00:22:05 - We're supposed to be playing Jane,
00:22:06 but I felt a little spicy.
00:22:07 - Not if that ain't playing Jane.
00:22:09 - And I don't think anybody should have to be that strong.
00:22:13 - Black people have survived insurmountable obstacles.
00:22:18 The journey of being black in America is not easy.
00:22:26 And I'm not a victim to any of it,
00:22:29 but I'm realistic to the journey.
00:22:31 I know how I am treated differently in certain situations.
00:22:36 I understand that I have to raise my boys to be men.
00:22:39 I understand that I have to figure out the balance
00:22:43 between being soft and vulnerable and open.
00:22:46 - Is that hard?
00:22:48 Like being soft? - No,
00:22:48 because that's who I wanna be.
00:22:50 That's who I really am.
00:22:52 - But I would say, firstly,
00:22:54 I would appreciate that because it's hard,
00:22:58 because women have it,
00:23:00 their own thing they go through.
00:23:01 But then when you deal with men
00:23:03 and you have that hard exterior, it's hard,
00:23:07 because we already fighting the world.
00:23:10 You know what I'm saying?
00:23:11 - But so are we.
00:23:12 - But that's what we gotta find to have immediate.
00:23:14 - I didn't have enough examples in my own life
00:23:16 to understand what it really meant
00:23:21 or what it really means to see a relationship
00:23:24 between a man and a woman that is healthy and balanced.
00:23:29 And you work through things instead of like,
00:23:33 every conversation is not an argument.
00:23:36 And I don't think black men and black women
00:23:39 have those conversations enough.
00:23:41 - Even now we're doing the work,
00:23:42 that don't mean everybody else is on board.
00:23:46 And that's the crazy part.
00:23:47 - But that's the thing, you gotta let them go.
00:23:50 You gotta let them go
00:23:51 and you gotta let them be on their own journey
00:23:53 and you can't fight for it anymore.
00:23:55 And you gotta love them exactly where they are.
00:23:58 And you gotta say, baby, you know what?
00:24:00 The hardest thing to do is to walk away
00:24:02 is from someone that you still love.
00:24:04 - You ain't tell me you was a pastor too.
00:24:06 - No, I'm just speaking from my own,
00:24:07 speaking from like, you know.
00:24:08 - I 1000% agree because the hardest thing I had to do
00:24:13 in life was walking away from everything
00:24:15 that I knew that could support me.
00:24:16 - That's right.
00:24:17 But what was the moment that you knew you had to walk away?
00:24:19 - Something happened in the Bay.
00:24:21 Somebody got killed and they tried to put it on us
00:24:24 while I was on tour with Khalifa.
00:24:25 They came and locked me up right here in LA.
00:24:28 I just remember being in jail and,
00:24:30 you know, I took care of everybody.
00:24:35 A million dollar bill for everybody, $10 million.
00:24:39 - Oh my God.
00:24:40 - I'm sitting in the county jail.
00:24:42 And as soon as I get in there,
00:24:45 somebody comes to get me out.
00:24:47 And they're like, we gotta get you out of here.
00:24:49 And I'm like, no, I can't leave these people
00:24:51 in the county jail.
00:24:53 I gotta stay here until, you know,
00:24:55 I can get everybody out the same way we came in.
00:24:57 And, you know, of course I didn't want to tell nobody
00:24:59 how to touch my finances.
00:25:01 So I had to figure that part out.
00:25:02 I ended up getting everybody out.
00:25:03 But my point is I sat in there for two weeks
00:25:05 until I can get everybody out.
00:25:07 The people that I had that was supposed to be in my corner,
00:25:09 ain't nobody check on my son, my daughter, my household.
00:25:13 - Nothing.
00:25:14 - And when I got out of jail,
00:25:15 I was at the lowest point in my life.
00:25:17 I did everything right on this tour.
00:25:19 I didn't take any gang members or nothing crazy.
00:25:22 I took the people that was working.
00:25:24 I stayed on my bus the whole time.
00:25:26 I did everything right.
00:25:27 And I got caught up.
00:25:28 I had Minister Farrakhan calling me every other day,
00:25:31 like, "Jeezy, brother, the enemy's coming."
00:25:34 I'm just like, what the hell is going on?
00:25:36 - Why was he calling you?
00:25:37 - He called me and said,
00:25:39 "Brother Jeezy, your message is changing.
00:25:42 "The enemy's coming to get you."
00:25:44 I said, "With all due respect, Mr. Farrakhan,
00:25:47 "all my enemies in my neighborhood,
00:25:48 "I'm not going back there no time soon."
00:25:50 He said, "No, the enemy."
00:25:52 But he was saying was that my message was changing
00:25:55 and I was starting to educate my people.
00:25:57 - Oh, wow.
00:25:58 - And now here comes the enemy.
00:26:01 And he wasn't lying.
00:26:01 It was, when I got to that arena to do my show
00:26:05 in front of 30,000 people,
00:26:07 it was my turn to go on stage.
00:26:08 It was maybe 70 police back there waiting
00:26:11 to take me to jail.
00:26:13 It was a span of my life, maybe like three years,
00:26:16 probably shortly after my first album.
00:26:18 Like, it was shootout to shootout.
00:26:22 Like, I've been in shootouts with my dad being right there.
00:26:24 And it's like a combo of everything.
00:26:26 So it was a combo of the street shit I had going on
00:26:28 before that.
00:26:29 It was a combo of the get money life with these guys.
00:26:33 And then it was a combo of just people
00:26:34 that I just never had a liking for.
00:26:36 They didn't have a liking for me,
00:26:37 that we just was in the same city trying to coexist.
00:26:41 I used to get up and pick my outfit based on what I was,
00:26:45 if it happened tonight, how I was going to look, right?
00:26:49 - You were like, if I die tonight,
00:26:50 my shit's going to be fly.
00:26:52 Do you realize what that does to your psyche?
00:26:54 Just leaving the house thinking like,
00:26:55 I got to make sure my shit is fly if I get killed.
00:26:58 - Boxers, everything.
00:26:59 I want to wear the best boxes, brand new socks.
00:27:01 - You're like, I will not have any holes in my underwear.
00:27:05 - I promise you, that was my life.
00:27:07 I didn't understand how I was going to even make it out.
00:27:10 And that's where all the drinking came in
00:27:13 because now I'm trying to self-soothe.
00:27:15 I'm trying to not-
00:27:16 - Were you an alcoholic?
00:27:16 - 1000%.
00:27:17 - Did you go to AA or did you just-
00:27:19 - No, I just stopped.
00:27:20 - You stopped?
00:27:21 - Because my mom and my dad,
00:27:23 they was, my mom's side of the family, they drink a lot.
00:27:26 And when I was leaning in on my vices,
00:27:29 I started to notice that there was a couple of things
00:27:32 that happened a few times where I wasn't sharp.
00:27:34 And I was just like, okay, if I don't stop this,
00:27:37 I'm going to get got.
00:27:38 And then I would just back away from the alcohol.
00:27:40 And what I would do is, well, two things.
00:27:43 The first thing is, I wanted to get healthy.
00:27:47 So I got down, I dropped 60 pounds, got myself together.
00:27:51 This was right before the recession
00:27:52 because any time in my career before,
00:27:55 from "Sherese's Watching" to the recession,
00:27:58 which was about six years, I was out of it.
00:28:01 Like I wasn't even, I was leading men, right?
00:28:04 I went everywhere with 150, 200 people
00:28:07 in every city I went to, it's another 300 waiting on us.
00:28:10 It was like a real thing.
00:28:12 And I was leading everybody off the end of a cliff.
00:28:15 (upbeat music)
00:28:17 - So you were saying that you feel like we can't connect
00:28:35 because we're doing too much time fighting each other.
00:28:39 - Absolutely.
00:28:40 - Instead of fighting for the relationship.
00:28:42 We're fighting for love and understanding
00:28:44 and commitment and compassion.
00:28:46 But it starts with men feeling comfortable enough
00:28:52 to be vulnerable and open.
00:28:54 And that's a hard thing to ask a man to do
00:28:57 because we were not conditioned that way.
00:29:01 A lot of us weren't raised that way.
00:29:03 It can be considered a sign of weakness
00:29:05 in the same way that therapy
00:29:06 is considered a sign of weakness.
00:29:08 We're talking about your experiences and my experiences.
00:29:11 We have more in common
00:29:12 than we probably ever thought we did, right?
00:29:15 And so to me, that's the thing that makes me feel
00:29:19 this sense of urgency to have this conversation with you.
00:29:24 But also there's a hopefulness.
00:29:27 There's a hopefulness that if we actually each do the work,
00:29:30 we can actually come together
00:29:32 because there's nothing more important to me
00:29:35 than black people.
00:29:36 We are the greatness in every room.
00:29:40 We are the ones who set it off and make it happen.
00:29:43 We are the ones that create the culture.
00:29:45 We are the artists.
00:29:46 We are the artistes.
00:29:48 We are the voices that lead the masses.
00:29:54 But what has always hurt me to the core
00:29:56 is why is there this dismantlement of the black family?
00:30:01 Why isn't it that black men and black women
00:30:04 can't sit like you and I are sitting in a space
00:30:07 and have really open dialogues about things
00:30:10 and work through the trauma
00:30:12 because that's the only way we can really, really,
00:30:15 really be productive.
00:30:19 - You said if it couldn't work, then you would leave.
00:30:22 - Yes.
00:30:22 - Even if there was a family,
00:30:24 even if there was kids involved.
00:30:27 - If the other person is not willing
00:30:31 to do the deep, hard work,
00:30:36 then you stay.
00:30:38 And when you stay, you have to make yourself smaller
00:30:42 to stay, to survive.
00:30:44 - I 1,000% agree with you.
00:30:46 - Or you may not, I think for a woman,
00:30:49 it means you have to make yourself smaller
00:30:52 to feel like you're fitting into this space
00:30:55 with this person who's not ready yet.
00:30:58 You can still love them, by the way.
00:31:00 You can still love them.
00:31:02 You can still wish them the best.
00:31:03 You can still, you, I mean,
00:31:05 you might have moments where you wanna cuss somebody out.
00:31:08 Like that's normal.
00:31:09 Like we have feelings and emotions,
00:31:12 but you can love people right where they are.
00:31:15 Because to me, that's really a sign
00:31:17 of my own personal growth.
00:31:18 If you can love the person that hurts you.
00:31:21 - But you mean love them from afar.
00:31:23 - You love them from afar.
00:31:24 You wish them well.
00:31:26 You bless them on their journey
00:31:27 and you hope that the next time around
00:31:30 that they have the opportunity to do the work
00:31:32 that they do the work.
00:31:33 - What happens when you're a man
00:31:35 and you want nothing more than that, right?
00:31:37 And that's not what you're getting on the other side.
00:31:40 And there are kids involved, right?
00:31:42 And there's somewhat love there.
00:31:45 And you understand that somebody else might have their thing,
00:31:49 but they're not taking this journey with you of healing.
00:31:53 Because I think love is two people healing together
00:31:56 and giving each other the space to do so.
00:31:58 And the thing for me is,
00:32:03 when I went to visit my mother that day,
00:32:05 I went to forgive her,
00:32:07 but I also went to tell her
00:32:08 that I'm gonna stand up for Lil' J.
00:32:11 - That's right.
00:32:12 - The Lil' J that she put in that position.
00:32:15 And I think a lot of my healing journey,
00:32:19 especially in my real life,
00:32:21 had a lot to do with me never standing up
00:32:23 to my mother the right way.
00:32:25 - That's right.
00:32:26 - Which made me be a certain way in real life.
00:32:29 - You're kind of all the things.
00:32:30 - Right.
00:32:31 What's all the things you mean?
00:32:32 - I mean, you're like a cat.
00:32:36 You've kind of lived nine lives.
00:32:38 You've had many different versions of self.
00:32:40 So right now, where are we?
00:32:42 - In my life, I wanted to have a family family.
00:32:45 I wanted to be that guy.
00:32:48 I wanted to be the person.
00:32:49 - To get it right.
00:32:50 - To get it right.
00:32:51 - Me too.
00:32:52 I wanted to get it right.
00:32:53 - To be right.
00:32:54 - Yes.
00:32:55 - To do all the things.
00:32:56 And you get in that space
00:32:58 and you're letting your inner child down
00:33:01 and you're not protecting them.
00:33:02 And that's making you shrink in situations like that too.
00:33:05 - Men do.
00:33:06 - Yes, because if you're not appreciated,
00:33:07 if you're met with resistance,
00:33:09 if you're met with that inner thing
00:33:12 that somebody else has from their thing,
00:33:15 that's your case.
00:33:15 - But to me, that's fixable.
00:33:17 - You gotta wanna do the work.
00:33:19 - I agree.
00:33:20 - But you just said clearly,
00:33:21 if you're a person, that's me to you out.
00:33:25 - There's an expiration date on everything.
00:33:27 - Right.
00:33:28 - Right?
00:33:29 And you gotta know when it's time to be done.
00:33:33 - Right.
00:33:33 - And that's usually not about another person,
00:33:36 an affair or some chick that's willing
00:33:41 to make you feel like a king.
00:33:43 'Cause that's why most men cheat.
00:33:44 Most men cheat because--
00:33:47 - That's fascinating to me.
00:33:48 - It's so gross.
00:33:49 It's so stupid.
00:33:50 - I personally, this is my quote,
00:33:53 real niggas don't cheat.
00:33:54 - You don't think so?
00:33:55 - Hell no.
00:33:56 - I kinda understand what you mean when you say that.
00:33:59 - They do not.
00:34:00 - I understand what you mean when you say that.
00:34:01 - It's something in us that makes us want to be right.
00:34:06 - Yes.
00:34:07 - Across the board.
00:34:08 - But is that so that you are living up
00:34:13 to the expectation that you've set for yourself?
00:34:16 Because again, you're going back to your childhood wounds
00:34:20 of trying to be perfect to receive the love from your mom?
00:34:24 Or is that really where you've landed
00:34:27 that you wanna be a man that does things the right way
00:34:29 because you wanna be honorable
00:34:31 and you wanna respect the woman that you're with?
00:34:33 'Cause those are two different things.
00:34:34 - I wanna be honorable and I'm just,
00:34:37 anybody that's real, and when I say real,
00:34:39 I mean real with yourself.
00:34:41 - Yeah, yeah.
00:34:42 - You know what I'm saying?
00:34:42 Like you're gonna hold,
00:34:44 there's a sense of integrity there.
00:34:46 - Absolutely.
00:34:47 - You know what I'm saying?
00:34:48 And my life--
00:34:48 - Dear God, what happened to integrity?
00:34:51 - My life is built on integrity.
00:34:53 - Yeah.
00:34:54 - That's my moral compass.
00:34:55 - Yeah.
00:34:56 - If I'm not integral, I'm off.
00:34:57 - Yeah.
00:34:58 - And for me, doing the work is integral, right?
00:35:03 For me, coming forth and telling my truth is integral.
00:35:08 - Right.
00:35:09 - For me, taking the mask off and saying,
00:35:11 you know what, even your favorite,
00:35:13 Trapper's favorite, Trapper has flaws and things
00:35:17 that he has to work through is integral.
00:35:20 Doing a versus battle in front of the world,
00:35:22 they know that, they know who you are
00:35:25 and what you're capable of,
00:35:26 and you taking another approach
00:35:28 'cause you wanna save lives is integral.
00:35:30 That's that disruptive,
00:35:32 not making the favorite or the most favorable choice
00:35:37 because you know you have a position to play.
00:35:40 So when I say that--
00:35:41 - Well, it's in your purpose, right?
00:35:42 Like when you're more in a line with your purpose.
00:35:44 - And I swear to you that more than ever,
00:35:48 I understand my purpose is walking in these footprints
00:35:52 that God has left for me.
00:35:53 - And what is your purpose now?
00:35:54 - My purpose is to be the best version of myself
00:35:57 and to teach my culture everything that I learned
00:36:01 along the way, just like I did when I was in the streets
00:36:04 and I made music, now that I'm writing books,
00:36:06 everything that I learned is in that book.
00:36:08 Everything that you see me do in real life
00:36:12 is my contribution to the blessings that I have.
00:36:17 Showing men that we can come from where we come from
00:36:20 and still be integral, still be solid individuals
00:36:24 because I think what you're saying is
00:36:26 we haven't seen enough examples of solid individuals.
00:36:29 - That's right, we don't have that roadmap.
00:36:31 - People is either one side or the other is like,
00:36:34 somebody's thinking for self, we're not thinking for we.
00:36:38 Somebody's either trying to,
00:36:39 and by the way, I had to go back
00:36:42 and dial my ego all the way back down.
00:36:44 - That's the other thing we haven't talked about.
00:36:46 There's no space in any of what we're talking about for ego.
00:36:51 - And if you're living by ego,
00:36:53 you're basically trying to either A, control someone
00:36:57 or to get them to see life the way you see it.
00:36:59 And I had to learn that that's not how you live life.
00:37:04 And most of my ego came from fear.
00:37:07 - Absolutely, there's good ego.
00:37:10 There's good ego that allows you to do this
00:37:12 'cause this is something new.
00:37:15 There's good ego that allows you to be a disruptor.
00:37:18 That's good ego because in disrupting the system,
00:37:22 in disrupting what we're used to seeing,
00:37:25 you're also providing a new way of doing things, right?
00:37:28 - It's hard though.
00:37:29 - Yeah, it's hard because you're putting yourself
00:37:31 in a position to be an example,
00:37:34 but you're still learning and growing.
00:37:36 - And also you're putting yourself in a position
00:37:39 to lose everything that you built
00:37:41 because people can look at you, and you know our culture,
00:37:44 you can do one thing, and they're like, "Oh, we cool with him."
00:37:46 - Yeah. - You know what I'm saying?
00:37:47 It's just like I had to learn not to teach or to preach.
00:37:52 I'm not this role model.
00:37:54 I'm just saying that when you come from where we come from,
00:37:58 it's okay to evolve because at the end of the day,
00:38:01 I don't want my kids to think I was just a great artist.
00:38:05 You know what I'm saying?
00:38:06 I'm a great man, I'm a great person, I'm a great father.
00:38:09 - That's more important than anything.
00:38:11 - Because I was saying, "Got you, I'm a real nigga."
00:38:13 Like all that, no, you're all these things.
00:38:16 I'm all the things, right?
00:38:17 - I just said that to you
00:38:18 when you looked at me like I was crazy.
00:38:19 - No, I was trying to figure out
00:38:20 what things you were saying.
00:38:21 (all laughing)
00:38:23 But I'm all the things, right?
00:38:26 And I'm also somebody who's failed.
00:38:28 I'm also somebody who's lost.
00:38:29 I'm also somebody who my life plays out in public a lot,
00:38:34 right, and people always see the bad things.
00:38:36 I'm always somebody who wants to do the right thing,
00:38:39 and sometimes the masses don't want that, right?
00:38:43 And sometimes, you know, I've been taught
00:38:46 to keep your mouth closed and don't tell people anything,
00:38:48 right, especially how you live and how you move.
00:38:50 - Well, that's what we've all been taught.
00:38:52 - Right, and now just opening up
00:38:54 and having these conversations,
00:38:55 you know, there's a lot of times where I'm just like,
00:38:57 "Wow," like, you know, when you see people
00:39:00 not getting the message right and you go,
00:39:03 they just really don't understand.
00:39:05 - As black people, this is a beautiful time
00:39:08 for us to be inspired by each other.
00:39:11 - Right.
00:39:12 - To be able to say we no longer have to have
00:39:15 this experience on this planet in this small vacuum
00:39:20 where we are of service to the world,
00:39:23 and when I say to the world, I mean to white pop culture.
00:39:26 Now there are tools and examples and people
00:39:30 and practices in place that can inspire us
00:39:34 in a different way.
00:39:35 When I was, you know, nine years old
00:39:38 wanting to be an actress, when I was little Nia,
00:39:40 there were like very few people I could look up to
00:39:42 and say, "Oh, that's who I wanna be."
00:39:45 We've cracked that a little bit, a lot of bit.
00:39:48 So now I think what you're saying is,
00:39:51 we all have the choice.
00:39:54 We have the choice to decide when and where
00:39:57 we're gonna get the mental health support that we need,
00:40:01 but you gotta want it, and I think the stigma
00:40:04 behind mental health, especially with black men, is huge.
00:40:09 - It's a weakness.
00:40:10 - It's a weakness, and the reality is,
00:40:11 is your brain is a muscle like anything else on your body.
00:40:16 If you can go to the gym and lift weights,
00:40:20 then you should be able to sit down with someone
00:40:22 and exercise that muscle in between your ears
00:40:25 and have those conversations,
00:40:26 'cause those conversations are tough,
00:40:27 but they're also really necessary.
00:40:30 - Yeah, it's hard though, because I have, you know,
00:40:35 I have people that I know look up to me,
00:40:37 that they really, you know, have been there
00:40:39 with me through a lot of things,
00:40:41 and I think they don't understand--
00:40:43 - Where you're at.
00:40:44 - And where I'm going.
00:40:46 It's like the disconnect is so real,
00:40:48 and it's almost like there's only a chosen few people
00:40:52 who understand what's really at stake.
00:40:54 - I was talking to a guy friend of mine a while ago,
00:40:58 and he said, "Nia," and I was just complaining,
00:41:01 complaining, complaining, complaining, complaining,
00:41:03 and I was like, "What am I supposed to do?
00:41:05 "Like, you know, I love this person,"
00:41:07 and he said, "Everyone has a cap on their capacity,
00:41:11 "and if their capacity is full,
00:41:16 "you could be doing back flips, front flips,
00:41:21 "you could be the best, the sex could be amazing,
00:41:25 "all these things could be amazing in that relationship,
00:41:30 "but if that person's capacity and desire to grow
00:41:35 "isn't there, then you hit that wall."
00:41:40 - Yeah.
00:41:41 - And I'm not saying that everyone
00:41:43 that hits the wall should give up.
00:41:45 I'm saying that if your partner hits the wall,
00:41:49 and you're not quite there yet in your personal growth,
00:41:53 you have a big decision to make.
00:41:54 - If I'm already in my partner's now, what happens?
00:41:57 - Well, Heidi knows she's not.
00:41:59 - Let's just say I know.
00:42:00 Like, it wasn't, what do I do?
00:42:03 You're my sister right now.
00:42:04 - I'm your sister.
00:42:05 - Well, you're giving me some advice, hypothetically speaking.
00:42:09 - Well, you don't want my advice,
00:42:10 'cause my advice is I'm out.
00:42:12 (laughing)
00:42:14 - Really?
00:42:15 - No, I don't give up easily.
00:42:16 I will never give up on someone I love.
00:42:19 I don't care how high we are or how low we are.
00:42:22 - That's how I feel about, I love me now.
00:42:25 - Yeah.
00:42:25 - There's a point I didn't, so I can't give up on myself.
00:42:28 - That's choosing yourself.
00:42:30 - Is that wrong?
00:42:31 - No.
00:42:32 That's the ultimate freedom, the ultimate acceptance,
00:42:37 who you are now, where you are now.
00:42:40 Where's that picture you showed me earlier?
00:42:42 - Oh, yeah, yeah.
00:42:43 - Of you when you were younger.
00:42:45 - That's my guy right there.
00:42:46 That's Lil' J, I talk to him all the time.
00:42:46 - Oh my God, look at him, so cute.
00:42:49 - He was kinda cute, you know what I'm saying?
00:42:50 - Didn't you guys see that?
00:42:51 - He's a cutie, cutie, cutie patootie,
00:42:53 you know what I'm saying?
00:42:54 Lil' gangster, but he's good.
00:42:56 - Well, you gotta have a lil' gangster.
00:42:57 It's boring if you ain't got no gangster.
00:42:59 When you look at him now, what do you feel?
00:43:02 - Honestly, I'm gonna share this
00:43:06 and I haven't shared it with anyone.
00:43:08 I had a meditation where I was in a deep meditation
00:43:12 for like 45 minutes and I dozed off into this field.
00:43:17 It's like a field and it was like a old house
00:43:23 in the middle of the field, like a barn house.
00:43:27 And I walked through the field and I walked in the house
00:43:29 and there was a TV on, it was playing cartoons.
00:43:32 And I walked around the house, I didn't see anyone.
00:43:34 Went in the kitchen, went in the room, didn't see anyone.
00:43:37 And something told me to go downstairs.
00:43:39 And I walked downstairs into the basement.
00:43:43 It was kinda dark, little light on in the corner,
00:43:46 couldn't really see much.
00:43:48 And I walked around the basement
00:43:51 and I ended up in the corner.
00:43:52 - Yeah.
00:43:53 - And I heard someone sniffling.
00:43:55 I walked over and I said, "Hey, what's going on?"
00:43:58 And then he added his back to me.
00:44:00 And I said, "What's wrong, buddy?"
00:44:04 And he turned around and it was my younger self,
00:44:08 the same face in his picture.
00:44:10 - That's amazing.
00:44:11 - And I said, "What's wrong?"
00:44:12 He said that, "I'm tired of everybody."
00:44:17 Like he basically was trying to tell me
00:44:21 he's tired of not being able to trust anybody
00:44:24 and everybody doing him dirty.
00:44:26 - Dirty.
00:44:27 - Right?
00:44:28 And he was crying and I just looked at him.
00:44:31 I said, "It's okay, now I'm here, buddy."
00:44:33 - To protect self.
00:44:34 - And he said, "You sure?"
00:44:36 I said, "Yes, I'm here."
00:44:38 And he just looked at me, he said, "You promise?"
00:44:42 And I said, "Yeah."
00:44:43 And I said, "Give me a hug, man."
00:44:45 And I literally, like this is real talk,
00:44:47 like I'm laying in my bed, right?
00:44:50 I ain't cried since Tupac died.
00:44:52 - Right, we all cried that night.
00:44:53 - And I'm laying in my bed and I'm feeling tears
00:44:57 roll down my face in my bed.
00:44:59 - Oh.
00:45:00 - And I looked at him, I said, "You're good, buddy.
00:45:03 "I'm here with you now, I got you."
00:45:06 And then I said, "Why are you in the basement?"
00:45:08 He said, "'Cause I was hiding."
00:45:10 I said, "Well, what do you wanna do, man?"
00:45:12 He said, "I wanna go play, I wanna have fun."
00:45:14 I said, "Well, let's go play then."
00:45:15 So I took him upstairs, he ran outside,
00:45:18 ran around the whole field and the yard,
00:45:20 swinging on the chairs.
00:45:21 I'm literally feeling myself go from tears
00:45:25 - To full on crying. - To smiling.
00:45:26 No, to smiling.
00:45:27 - Oh, smiling. - 'Cause he's happy.
00:45:29 And we played all day, played 'til he got tired,
00:45:33 and we went in the house and we sat on the sofa
00:45:36 and he watched cartoons until he fell asleep.
00:45:37 And he sat on my lap, where he like laid across,
00:45:41 and in the middle of it, he just woke up
00:45:43 and he's like, "I love you, man."
00:45:45 And when I tell you--
00:45:47 - That was it for you.
00:45:48 - It's almost like my heart, it like exploded.
00:45:51 Like whatever pain that was in there--
00:45:54 - That you were carrying.
00:45:55 - It was like a million pounds lifted off my chest.
00:46:00 And that moment, I just said,
00:46:02 "No matter what in life happens,
00:46:04 I have to choose to take care of my inner child
00:46:07 and take care of myself."
00:46:09 And that's what I promised my mom
00:46:11 when I wrote her that letter,
00:46:12 when I went and sat with her at her grave site.
00:46:15 And I just remember walking away from it
00:46:18 and I looked at my phone and I said,
00:46:22 "I did it for us, man.
00:46:24 I did it for us, Lil' J."
00:46:26 And that was all I needed for me
00:46:29 because that moment for me,
00:46:32 my life has just been clear ever since.
00:46:35 And I always put everybody else first.
00:46:37 - Me too.
00:46:38 - And I never put myself first.
00:46:39 - Never, I know.
00:46:41 - And I've tried to love everyone that's came in my life.
00:46:45 Everyone, like the best way I could.
00:46:47 Not to say that I know what love is
00:46:49 or I know what these things are,
00:46:50 but the best way I know how.
00:46:52 And I always got the short end of the stick.
00:46:55 And for this one time in this one place, I chose myself.
00:46:59 Our world, our people, they need to hear this shit.
00:47:02 - Absolutely.
00:47:03 - Like they need to know that you don't have to be stuck
00:47:08 in this place, that this trauma and this pain
00:47:12 and all these things want us to be stuck in.
00:47:13 - We're supposed to be living joy, joyful lives.
00:47:16 Women are supposed to just be able to be feminine and soft,
00:47:20 still be in your power, still be successful,
00:47:23 still be mothers, professionals, famous, whatever it is.
00:47:28 We can be all of the things, right?
00:47:30 - And men should be able to be loving.
00:47:32 And I feel like they're gonna get emasculated
00:47:36 or these things because, and I just feel like
00:47:40 if everybody took the time to look inward
00:47:44 and to work on themselves.
00:47:46 - In an honest way.
00:47:47 - You have to be honest.
00:47:48 And I just feel like if we can do that as a people,
00:47:52 we'll be in a better space.
00:47:53 And I think for me, it's risking a lot because,
00:47:58 anybody that would have been in my position
00:48:01 that would have been thinking for self.
00:48:03 And I think it's success.
00:48:04 - There's no way they would have.
00:48:05 - I think it's success when you accomplish
00:48:08 what I've accomplished, that's success.
00:48:10 - Yeah, yeah.
00:48:11 - Success is for yourself.
00:48:13 Significance is what is about others.
00:48:17 And I'm in a significant space right now.
00:48:19 - I don't know that I've ever had a conversation like this
00:48:23 with any man.
00:48:24 - Oh, wow.
00:48:25 - So for you to say the words,
00:48:28 but still have this very masculine presence
00:48:32 is kind of nice.
00:48:33 'Cause it's like, it goes against what I think
00:48:37 women will be like, he's soft.
00:48:38 I don't want, because there are women out there
00:48:40 that don't want that.
00:48:41 - 1000%.
00:48:42 - I don't understand that.
00:48:44 I think you want the balance, right?
00:48:45 I think women want leadership.
00:48:47 They wanna feel protected.
00:48:48 - Do they want leadership?
00:48:50 - Well, it depends on the woman.
00:48:51 - Right, yes.
00:48:53 - Depends on the woman, right?
00:48:55 And it depends on where you're leading me.
00:48:57 Because if you're leading me someplace
00:48:58 where I don't wanna go, then no, we're not doing that.
00:49:02 But if I trust you.
00:49:04 - Where does the trust come into play?
00:49:08 - Well, you gotta know each other.
00:49:10 You gotta be, you gotta--
00:49:11 - And to know each other, you have to be transparent.
00:49:16 - Absolutely.
00:49:17 - Open book.
00:49:18 - Are you able to forgive?
00:49:20 - I started with myself, my mother,
00:49:25 some people in my family that some foul things happened.
00:49:30 As family, those things should happen,
00:49:33 but I don't know how you forgive somebody
00:49:38 who had a malicious intent.
00:49:41 - So in that moment where you are trying
00:49:45 to really work through your own trauma,
00:49:47 is it safe to say that it's healthy to say
00:49:52 that person is where they are,
00:49:53 I need to leave them there and forgive them
00:49:55 exactly where they are and still love them where they are?
00:49:58 - Well, I can say this, I've been through some shit.
00:50:03 - I'm not laughing, I'm just like,
00:50:04 but the way you said that.
00:50:05 - You definitely laughing.
00:50:06 - I'm definitely laughing because of the way you said it.
00:50:08 - You definitely laughing, that's what I'm saying.
00:50:10 This is why we can't open up.
00:50:11 - This is why we can't open up.
00:50:12 - This is why I shouldn't say shit.
00:50:15 - I'm laughing 'cause of your face when you said it,
00:50:18 was like, I wanna know what you--
00:50:20 - I've been through some shit,
00:50:21 and I've been through some shit
00:50:22 with people I really love.
00:50:23 - What's the worst thing someone's ever done to you?
00:50:26 - I mean, left me in my lowest.
00:50:27 I thought I took care of them the whole time.
00:50:29 Like, you know, cross me out.
00:50:31 I mean, try to line me up.
00:50:32 You know, get me knocked off.
00:50:34 - That's hardcore.
00:50:36 - Took from me, stole from me, betrayed me.
00:50:40 - But you done let all that go, have you?
00:50:42 - This is the thing I had to learn.
00:50:44 And this is the part where it get a little tricky.
00:50:47 Most time when people do something to hurt you,
00:50:50 it's out of fear.
00:50:51 - Of course.
00:50:52 - Right, but I didn't understand that at first.
00:50:54 I thought this was personal.
00:50:56 - Yeah. - Right.
00:50:56 - Well, that's 'cause we black people are raised that way.
00:50:59 Like, that's kind of part of our culture.
00:51:00 - You think it's personal,
00:51:01 like you're trying to hurt me, so I gotta--
00:51:02 I gotta hurt you back or hurt you first.
00:51:05 - There's that.
00:51:06 And I think when I started to realize
00:51:10 that it was out of fear, that softened the blow.
00:51:14 Like, God damn, them niggas did hurt it, man.
00:51:17 - They did?
00:51:18 - Yeah, just like, I don't understand it.
00:51:20 - That's good that you have that still in you.
00:51:24 Because to me, that's a part of who you are.
00:51:28 - You gotta always keep teeth.
00:51:29 - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, grit.
00:51:30 - You gotta always keep teeth.
00:51:31 - Let me say this.
00:51:32 The thing that I had to come to grips with
00:51:36 is that no matter how dirty I feel like they done me,
00:51:42 they probably never thought about that
00:51:44 another day in their life.
00:51:45 It probably didn't even matter to them.
00:51:47 It was business as usual.
00:51:49 And the thing that I've been living with
00:51:51 is the fact that every day,
00:51:54 which has probably been for the last decade--
00:51:56 - You think about it.
00:51:57 - I think about it.
00:51:58 And I'm the one that's being affected by it.
00:52:01 - You're hurting, yeah.
00:52:02 - I'm the one that's hurting.
00:52:03 - So to me, that seems like the last thing
00:52:05 that you need to reconcile.
00:52:06 - Yeah, that's the last piece.
00:52:09 - So we've talked about all of these things,
00:52:11 all of these themes, all of these moments in your life,
00:52:13 some moments in my own life,
00:52:15 where you have made a conscious decision
00:52:20 to move forward and to choose yourself.
00:52:24 - Right.
00:52:25 - Right?
00:52:27 But what we haven't talked about is your current marriage
00:52:31 and your current situation.
00:52:32 And I think it would be unfair to you
00:52:35 to not address that in this space
00:52:39 where we're being really open and honest.
00:52:42 And it doesn't have to be the details of anything.
00:52:45 But if you've done all of this work
00:52:49 and you've given yourself that grace,
00:52:52 and you've given yourself that space to grow,
00:52:55 and you've given yourself permission to love self, right?
00:52:59 Then what happens when a man gets to the point
00:53:03 where they're just like, "Okay, I'm filing for divorce."
00:53:06 - Integrity, in tech, I could never say anything
00:53:10 that would not honor somebody.
00:53:14 - Absolutely.
00:53:15 - But I can tell you that this has not been a easy journey.
00:53:20 - Right.
00:53:22 - I can tell you that I'm saddened.
00:53:26 I can tell you that I'm disappointed.
00:53:28 I can tell you that I'm uneasy, right?
00:53:33 But again, God has put me in a different path.
00:53:38 And that path is gonna entail for me to take care of myself
00:53:44 and to love myself and to be in the best situation
00:53:48 that I can thrive as someone who've been through
00:53:52 all the things that I've been through.
00:53:53 - It's kind of something you can't explain.
00:53:55 - Yeah, you can't.
00:53:56 The real thing is like, I don't like to fail at anything.
00:54:01 - Me either.
00:54:01 I don't wanna lose, I don't wanna fail.
00:54:04 - I don't wanna fail, especially when I know what--
00:54:07 - You've poured in.
00:54:08 - Right.
00:54:09 And as I said across from you,
00:54:12 I can only be responsible for myself.
00:54:15 - True.
00:54:16 - And I can only do what I can do, right?
00:54:21 - I can't expect someone else to do what I'm doing.
00:54:26 - But did you go to therapy with her?
00:54:30 - Yeah.
00:54:30 - Okay, that's good.
00:54:32 So you actually addressed it, tried to work through it,
00:54:36 tried to do the work, and it just was like not happening.
00:54:40 Well then, shit, you tried.
00:54:44 I don't know about for you, but for me, it is a switch.
00:54:48 And when that switch goes off--
00:54:49 - Is that what you, that was your switch?
00:54:52 - Go on, yeah.
00:54:56 But you know, I had to realize for myself
00:54:58 that anything that happened in the last,
00:55:01 what was it, year and a half of my life,
00:55:03 that shouldn't have nothing to do with me.
00:55:05 - And that's my point of case.
00:55:05 - That didn't have anything to do with me.
00:55:08 I was not embarrassed.
00:55:10 I was not, I was, the way that black people stood up for me
00:55:16 and the way that black women were like,
00:55:19 oh no, you don't do that to her, I was shocked.
00:55:23 Because I didn't realize that what I had done
00:55:25 or what I've done in my career had so much impact.
00:55:29 - You didn't realize that?
00:55:30 - No, not at all.
00:55:32 And I'm not even being like funny.
00:55:33 - You're America's sweetheart, like it's crazy.
00:55:35 - Well, shit.
00:55:36 - It's like, the hell, you don't know that?
00:55:39 - I don't, I do not, I don't regard myself in that way
00:55:45 because it's always really about the work for me.
00:55:48 - Well, I'm gonna say this.
00:55:50 I feel like I'm sitting across from you.
00:55:54 Which is why I wanted to have this conversation with you
00:55:58 'cause I wanna personally tell you that you embody
00:56:01 what a well-minded, grown ass black woman
00:56:07 is supposed to be like.
00:56:11 And we stand with you always.
00:56:13 And the reason why I wanted to talk to you
00:56:14 because you are my sister.
00:56:17 And this is a safe space for me to say what I need to say.
00:56:20 Because at times when we're at our lowest,
00:56:23 we're our sisters.
00:56:25 Just like you guys need your brothers.
00:56:27 And that's why this conversation was so real
00:56:30 because I hope and I pray that this conversation
00:56:35 can open up different conversations in our culture
00:56:40 by being there for each other.
00:56:41 And not being at odds with each other,
00:56:43 no matter what we've been through.
00:56:46 And I gotta give you a flowers.
00:56:49 You've done an amazing job and maintained your integrity
00:56:54 throughout your career, right?
00:56:59 As a person, as a human being.
00:57:01 And it meant the world to me to sit across from you
00:57:04 and just to tell you my story.
00:57:05 As a man, I just hope that women, our women,
00:57:10 black women in particular, can see this
00:57:13 and give us a safe space.
00:57:15 Really women all the way across the board.
00:57:16 Because we as men, we're hurt to be vulnerable
00:57:20 to tell your partner that right now--
00:57:24 - I'm not feeling so good right now.
00:57:25 - I'm in a bad space.
00:57:27 We're gonna do it out here.
00:57:28 Every day, you wouldn't even imagine, right?
00:57:30 And there's no safe place for us to land.
00:57:32 There's no safe place for us to have these conversations.
00:57:34 We can't have it with our homies.
00:57:35 We can't have it with our brothers and our partners
00:57:37 because it doesn't resonate.
00:57:39 - Doesn't translate 'cause they don't have life experience.
00:57:41 - And they don't have that empathy there.
00:57:44 They don't have that mothering, that nurturing thing.
00:57:49 And this is like, for me, it's real.
00:57:53 Because when you buried as many people as I have,
00:57:58 or seeing people go to prison for long periods of time,
00:58:01 or just seeing people fall to the wayside,
00:58:03 they're all missing a certain element.
00:58:07 And that element is to be able to have a safe space,
00:58:10 a safe space for us to have a conversation.
00:58:12 - And I think that's the thing that's so important
00:58:15 about the process.
00:58:16 'Cause when you're in pain and you're in odds,
00:58:18 and I've been in pain most of my career.
00:58:20 I've been the angry black man for sure.
00:58:23 - Really?
00:58:24 - Yeah, because I was just mad at the world.
00:58:25 Because I'm like, why do I have to keep fighting
00:58:27 these battles?
00:58:28 Not that I'm not a fighter, right?
00:58:30 - No, we all are.
00:58:31 You don't wanna have to fight through it.
00:58:32 It should be a joyful experience.
00:58:34 - And if you do, you wanna be at least processed
00:58:37 with somebody who feels your pain
00:58:39 and you wanna be safe.
00:58:40 And I feel like there's no safe spaces for us.
00:58:44 And to answer your question,
00:58:46 I'm gonna take your homework.
00:58:47 I'm gonna go home.
00:58:49 - Did I give you homework?
00:58:50 - Yeah, 'cause I hear what you going with this.
00:58:52 I'm gonna write my list of people that I should forgive.
00:58:56 And I'm gonna forgive them.
00:58:58 Because my sister told me that it's okay to do so.
00:59:00 - That's right.
00:59:01 - I hope they don't think I'm soft, but I'm Duke Nicholas.
00:59:03 - You are not soft.
00:59:04 No, you got to, 'cause otherwise we're carrying,
00:59:06 I need to write, listen, I need to write the list.
00:59:08 - Well, we write, I want you to write your list
00:59:10 and I'll write mine.
00:59:10 - Listed, I wanna see whose list is longer
00:59:13 'cause I got some shit on my list.
00:59:14 I don't know about yours.
00:59:16 - I wanna thank you for your time.
00:59:17 I wanna thank you for your energy.
00:59:19 I wanna thank you for your realness.
00:59:21 And I hope you understand how many lives
00:59:26 this is gonna affect and change, because I promise you,
00:59:30 a lot of the anger and resentment
00:59:31 and the dumb shit that men do
00:59:33 is coming from a place of not being able to be seen or heard.
00:59:36 - Right, we're demonized.
00:59:38 And I can only imagine what it's like on the woman's side.
00:59:41 But I hope that this will open up,
00:59:44 you know, just that dialogue
00:59:46 of being able to talk to each other.
00:59:48 And like you said, being on the same team
00:59:50 rather than fighting each other,
00:59:51 because I'm going through a real, real hard moment
00:59:55 in my life.
00:59:56 Like I feel that something that I would have,
00:59:59 you know, gave my life for it to work.
01:00:01 - The last question that I have is,
01:00:04 we have established that everything starts with love.
01:00:09 But I don't think we can grow into that real deep love
01:00:15 and acceptance that this whole conversation
01:00:17 has been about without forgiveness.
01:00:21 So what do you do when you know you have to forgive someone?
01:00:25 For me, I'll tell you what I do.
01:00:28 - Okay.
01:00:29 - When I know that I have to forgive someone,
01:00:31 when I'm in my bed quietly meditating,
01:00:35 I literally send them love vibrations.
01:00:39 I literally send them, like visualize the person's face,
01:00:43 and I send them love vibrations.
01:00:45 Because by me releasing love towards them,
01:00:50 I no longer have to be connected to the negative feeling
01:00:55 of being hurt and disappointed.
01:00:59 I have actually sliced that, chopped that down.
01:01:02 You don't have access to me.
01:01:05 There may never be another conversation,
01:01:07 but energetically, I know that I can send love to someone,
01:01:11 and it actually helps my healing.
01:01:13 Now, whether they receive it or not, I don't really care.
01:01:16 It's more for me.
01:01:17 And sometimes we don't need an explanation
01:01:20 from the other person as to why it's so important to forgive.
01:01:27 But I promise you, you could do all this work
01:01:32 that you're doing right now.
01:01:33 We could do all these, have these conversations.
01:01:36 If you are not able to forgive, you will hit the wall again.
01:01:41 - Or I'm gonna say this, and I received that.
01:01:47 I don't know if I'm sending anybody love vibrations
01:01:50 in my bed, but what I will promise you,
01:01:55 I will write my list.
01:01:57 See, this is why I was saying this.
01:02:03 - No, because I was honest.
01:02:04 You're like, "No, I'm not sending no love vibrations
01:02:07 'cause it ain't feeling like that right now."
01:02:09 - So what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna write my list,
01:02:12 and I'm gonna forgive, but I'm not gonna forget.
01:02:15 - But see, I'm looking in your eyes,
01:02:18 and I'm not really buying that.
01:02:20 - I'm gonna forgive, but I'm not gonna forget.
01:02:24 - That's halfway, right?
01:02:26 - That's halfway.
01:02:27 - Okay.
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