• last year
Mason Sawyer's story is one of resilience and perseverance in the face of tragedy. After the death of his wife, two children, brother, and nephew, Mason was overcome with grief and guilt. But he was able to find strength in his therapist's mantra of "we over me"..

Mason believes that helping others can take the spotlight away from individual demons, and he leans on stoicism to understand that most things in life are indifferent. He encourages others to find their own "why" to help them through difficult times.
Transcript
00:00:00 He's like, "There's been a terrible car accident.
00:00:02 "Everyone's dead except one person."
00:00:04 You've heard of the stages of grief.
00:00:08 I drop my phone, I'm crying, I'm rolling on the ground,
00:00:12 and I'm just flipping through all of them.
00:00:14 Anger, denial, shock, bargaining.
00:00:18 (upbeat music)
00:00:22 I'm full of so much pain and agony and regret
00:00:29 and survivor's guilt.
00:00:31 The minute I started doing public speaking
00:00:35 and podcasting and helping other people,
00:00:37 the minute I forgot about me
00:00:40 and started trying to connect and help other people,
00:00:43 dude, that saved me, man.
00:00:46 The car accident with my family is meaningless.
00:00:48 I think life in general is pointless, it's meaningless.
00:00:52 It has no meaning.
00:00:54 It's up to you to give it meaning.
00:00:56 It's up to you.
00:00:57 You have to get off your ass, figure out
00:01:00 what you want to achieve, sacrifice to achieve that thing,
00:01:04 and give your life meaning.
00:01:06 - Hey, Mason, welcome to the show.
00:01:11 - I'm excited to be here, man.
00:01:13 You have no idea, so thank you.
00:01:14 - Well, thank you for coming on.
00:01:15 I'm excited today to unlock your secret success formula
00:01:18 and translate your expertise into an action-based playbook
00:01:21 for our listeners, so thanks again.
00:01:23 - Dude, that sounds intense, dude.
00:01:24 I don't know if I have all of that,
00:01:26 but we'll see what happens.
00:01:27 - I'm sure you do.
00:01:29 What's interesting is everybody has a formula for success,
00:01:32 what makes them who they are,
00:01:34 and I think you actually have a superpower
00:01:36 that most of us either don't realize we have
00:01:40 if we ever need to call on it,
00:01:41 or I just frankly don't think I have it.
00:01:43 I interview a lot of people in different walks of life,
00:01:48 but I was most both anxious, excited, and nervous
00:01:52 for today's interview with you
00:01:54 just because of the emotional side,
00:01:57 but before we get into all that,
00:01:58 obviously we read your bio at the beginning.
00:02:00 Take us back, if you don't mind.
00:02:03 Just walk me through Young Mason.
00:02:06 Describe your childhood.
00:02:07 - Dude, I love Michael Jordan.
00:02:11 So I was watching, I love basketball.
00:02:13 I'd pick up a ball.
00:02:15 I was the youngest of five kids,
00:02:17 and my mom would just be like,
00:02:18 "Yeah, you just love basketball.
00:02:19 "You'd pick up a ball and you'd dribble,"
00:02:21 and it got to the point where you'd dribble in the house
00:02:23 so much where you'd break the light bulbs
00:02:26 in the basement below us.
00:02:27 Like I had to tell you, like,
00:02:28 "Stop dribbling in the house."
00:02:29 So I just love basketball, dude,
00:02:32 and I remember I was watching a jazz game,
00:02:35 'cause I'm from Utah.
00:02:36 So I was watching a jazz game with my dad one day,
00:02:39 and he points at the TV, and he says,
00:02:42 "Mason, you see that guy?"
00:02:44 I'm like, "Yeah."
00:02:45 He's like, "That's the best basketball player
00:02:46 "that's ever lived,"
00:02:47 and it was Michael Jordan that he was pointing at.
00:02:49 - I was gonna ask you if it was Cora Malone.
00:02:50 (laughing)
00:02:51 - No, it wasn't the mailman.
00:02:53 And I don't know.
00:02:55 I just, like, ever since he said that,
00:02:57 I just loved MJ.
00:02:59 And so I'd tell my mom, like, shave my head.
00:03:01 Like, I just wanna be MJ, man.
00:03:03 And so I'd be in my driveway every day playing hoops.
00:03:06 - Did you stick your tongue out?
00:03:09 - The whole thing, dude.
00:03:10 I had the balls, gear, the tongue, everything, dude.
00:03:13 And I remember my big dream,
00:03:17 like every other kid's dream who loves basketball,
00:03:19 is I wanna go to the NBA.
00:03:23 And so I remember,
00:03:24 and I was pretty good growing up, dude.
00:03:25 Like, I was good.
00:03:27 And then I remember we went to Florida
00:03:30 for, like, the national championship tournament thing,
00:03:33 and I just got my ass kicked.
00:03:36 Like, it was like a wake-up call.
00:03:39 I remember leaving Florida, like,
00:03:42 I don't think I'm going to the NBA.
00:03:43 (laughing)
00:03:44 But I remember thinking, like--
00:03:45 - How old were you?
00:03:46 - Dude, I was probably, like, I was seventh, eighth grade.
00:03:48 I was young.
00:03:49 Like, my dreams were shattered young.
00:03:51 But it was a good experience.
00:03:53 A good experience, but a little early.
00:03:54 And I remember I was,
00:03:57 it was literally the first time in my life
00:03:59 where I struggled on the court.
00:04:01 Like, I just didn't feel like I was good,
00:04:02 which was really weird, 'cause I usually just kick ass.
00:04:05 - Was it nerves, or was it the talent?
00:04:06 - No, it was just strictly the talent
00:04:08 and the athleticism and the size.
00:04:10 Dude, we were doing warm-ups, and they were dunking.
00:04:13 Like, you guys, are you guys 12?
00:04:15 (laughing)
00:04:16 Like, that's not.
00:04:17 And so I remember my dad,
00:04:20 I remember telling my dad,
00:04:21 I was so frustrated and disappointed in myself.
00:04:23 My dad, like, I don't know if I can go to the NBA
00:04:25 and this and that.
00:04:26 And my dad told me, he's like,
00:04:29 Mason, like, I don't know.
00:04:30 All I know is watching you play from that tournament,
00:04:33 like, you have a lot of work to do.
00:04:34 Like, you need to get better.
00:04:36 That's just how my dad was.
00:04:37 No excuses.
00:04:39 Like, it wasn't the ref's fault.
00:04:40 It wasn't my coach's fault.
00:04:41 He's like, yeah, you gotta get better.
00:04:43 But dude, I remember I left Florida.
00:04:45 I'm like, I'm not going to the NBA,
00:04:47 but maybe I can play college ball.
00:04:49 So that was my new goal.
00:04:50 And luckily I worked hard enough
00:04:52 and I was able to make it to college basketball.
00:04:55 So I played for Dixie State,
00:04:57 which is in Southern Utah.
00:04:59 And that was my life.
00:05:01 Dude, 5'10", white kid from Utah,
00:05:03 chances of playing college basketball aren't good.
00:05:05 - Pass first point guard or shooting?
00:05:07 - I was a pass first point guard for sure.
00:05:10 - Yeah?
00:05:11 - I could shoot it a little bit, but.
00:05:12 - So when you came home from Florida,
00:05:14 dreams crushed.
00:05:15 - Yeah.
00:05:16 - Changed from NBA to college.
00:05:18 - Yeah.
00:05:19 - What did you do to say, okay,
00:05:20 this is what I need to work on?
00:05:21 'Cause obviously you clearly had.
00:05:23 - I remember, dude, I remember my parents like,
00:05:25 you gotta get a job this summer.
00:05:27 And I hated it.
00:05:28 I'm making like these cold calls,
00:05:29 like as a 15 year old kid.
00:05:31 I'm like, this sucks.
00:05:32 - What were you selling?
00:05:33 - I don't even remember.
00:05:34 I was like, but you have to make 85 calls a day.
00:05:36 I'm like, this is torture, dude.
00:05:38 Anyway, so we go to a basketball tournament
00:05:39 and I just don't tell my job that I'm leaving.
00:05:42 I'm like, I'm just not telling them
00:05:43 in hopes that I'd get fired.
00:05:44 I'm like, I hope you fire my ass
00:05:46 'cause I hate working here.
00:05:47 I'm like this 15 year old kid.
00:05:49 So I go to Denver, I do this basketball tournament.
00:05:51 I come back, my mom drops me off.
00:05:53 I go in, sure enough, fired.
00:05:54 Like my tow tray's cleared out.
00:05:56 My phone set is gone.
00:05:58 So I call my mom, I'm like, mom, I'm fired.
00:06:01 I'm like laughing, like I'm fired, you gotta pick me up.
00:06:03 She's like, this is not funny.
00:06:04 But I remember my mom picked me up
00:06:06 and I told my parents, I'm gonna listen.
00:06:08 I'm not gonna have a job.
00:06:11 Drop me off at the rec center.
00:06:13 I will practice my ass off.
00:06:15 I'll get my college paid for.
00:06:17 I will, I'll get a scholarship.
00:06:19 And that's what happened.
00:06:20 They're like, okay.
00:06:21 So they left me alone and I worked my ass off
00:06:23 and I got good enough to get a basketball scholarship
00:06:26 to Dixie State.
00:06:27 - So what was the program?
00:06:29 - D2 school.
00:06:30 - No, no, no, the training program.
00:06:32 Drop you off, yeah.
00:06:33 - Dude, like--
00:06:34 - I wanna get into what made you successful.
00:06:35 So.
00:06:36 - Oh man, I don't know how many ravel holes
00:06:40 you wanna go down, but--
00:06:41 - We'll go where we go.
00:06:42 - Dude, so like fast forward,
00:06:43 I later became a skills trainer.
00:06:46 Like I'd work with high school and college players
00:06:48 like basketball skill development.
00:06:49 I developed a passion for that.
00:06:51 And dude, like, it's honestly like 90% a scam.
00:06:56 It really is.
00:06:57 Like parents, players, you don't need a basketball trainer.
00:07:00 You really honest to God don't.
00:07:02 I mean, it helps.
00:07:03 - Sure.
00:07:04 - But you just gotta work your ass off.
00:07:06 And I remember I became a high school basketball coach.
00:07:10 I'll never forget it, dude.
00:07:11 I told my team, I'm like, hey,
00:07:14 school starts at 7.30 a.m.
00:07:16 Like, hey, I'll be here every morning at 6 a.m.
00:07:20 You guys can shoot, you can get shots up, you can lift.
00:07:23 'Cause that's what I'm doing, I'm lifting.
00:07:25 That's what I was doing.
00:07:25 So if you guys wanna come and enjoy me, please do.
00:07:28 Dude, no one showed up.
00:07:30 No one.
00:07:31 - No, they didn't.
00:07:31 - And it was the, as a head basketball coach,
00:07:33 before our season started, I'm like, we're screwed.
00:07:37 Like the head coach can't be the hardest working guy
00:07:40 in the program.
00:07:41 And like, we're done.
00:07:42 It was the most frustrating thing, dude.
00:07:44 There's no secret formula.
00:07:46 There's really not.
00:07:47 You have to work your ass off.
00:07:50 - What do they say?
00:07:50 Hard work beats talent?
00:07:51 - When talent doesn't work hard.
00:07:53 Like, that is so true, man.
00:07:54 And obviously, like, we're born with like,
00:07:56 like biologically we're born different
00:07:58 with different strengths and weaknesses.
00:07:59 I get that.
00:08:00 Like we're not all,
00:08:01 no, like not a lot of people are born six foot eight
00:08:03 like LeBron.
00:08:04 I get it.
00:08:05 But dude, like whatever it is, sports, business,
00:08:08 like you have to sacrifice and work your ass off.
00:08:12 And that's what I did as a little kid.
00:08:13 I gave up, I sacrificed stuff.
00:08:16 I gave up fun weekends with my buddies
00:08:18 and I was in the gym getting shots up.
00:08:20 That was the sack of, that was the thing.
00:08:22 - How many days a week were you training?
00:08:23 - Every, every day.
00:08:24 - Every day.
00:08:25 - Except Sunday, my parents wouldn't let me do Sunday.
00:08:27 We were religious.
00:08:28 So like no Sundays, but other than that, dude,
00:08:30 I remember we'd go on family vacation.
00:08:32 I'd get paranoid.
00:08:33 Like how can I practice if we're on family vacation?
00:08:36 - So every day you were touching a ball.
00:08:38 - Yeah, for sure.
00:08:40 - If you had a game on Sunday, could you play?
00:08:42 - Yeah, I would've.
00:08:43 - You would've played.
00:08:44 - Yeah, for sure.
00:08:45 - Your parents would've been okay with it?
00:08:46 - I don't know, no, probably not.
00:08:47 - What about in college?
00:08:49 - I don't think I ever played on Sunday.
00:08:51 - No tournaments?
00:08:52 - Maybe we did.
00:08:54 I don't remember very well now, but I don't know.
00:08:57 But so that was my life.
00:08:59 I loved ball.
00:09:00 I get this scholarship.
00:09:02 In high school though, I meet this girl
00:09:05 and I just fall for this girl, which is weird
00:09:08 'cause like basketball is my girlfriend.
00:09:10 Like I don't want a girlfriend.
00:09:11 - First girlfriend?
00:09:12 - First girlfriend, dude, 15.
00:09:14 Her name's Courtney.
00:09:15 Just like, we get along so good.
00:09:18 You know what I mean?
00:09:19 And so we date for a while and then we get married.
00:09:25 And actually our senior year in high school,
00:09:27 we won the award at our last school dance.
00:09:29 We actually got the award most likely
00:09:30 to marry your high school sweetheart.
00:09:31 Like that's who we were.
00:09:33 - Inseparable.
00:09:35 - Yeah, everyone kinda got it.
00:09:36 Like it's Mason and Courtney.
00:09:38 And so we ended up getting married.
00:09:40 So I play basketball at Dixie State.
00:09:42 My wife Courtney goes to the nursing program there
00:09:44 and it's kind of a perfect setup.
00:09:45 Like we get school paid for, we graduate with no debt.
00:09:48 - You got married before you went to college.
00:09:49 - Yeah, I got married, dude, how long is this podcast?
00:09:52 (laughing)
00:09:54 Dude, so I grew up, dude.
00:09:56 Okay, let's make a long story short.
00:09:59 So I married Courtney.
00:10:01 She got in the nursing program.
00:10:03 I played basketball there.
00:10:04 'Cause I grew up in the LDS church.
00:10:07 I don't know if you're familiar with that.
00:10:09 - I mean, I know it from an outsider.
00:10:11 - Okay, so I served like an LDS mission.
00:10:14 And my wife Courtney waited for me for two years
00:10:17 and wrote me three letters a week.
00:10:19 - Where'd you go?
00:10:20 - I went to Alabama, Roll Tide.
00:10:21 - Roll Tide.
00:10:22 - Roll Tide, you like college football?
00:10:24 - I do, my oldest daughter is,
00:10:25 I'm taking her next week to visit Alabama.
00:10:27 She got accepted, she hasn't seen it yet.
00:10:29 - Okay, so you're going to Tuscaloosa.
00:10:30 - Flying to Birmingham, driving to Tuscaloosa.
00:10:32 - Let me give you some pointers right away.
00:10:33 - Please.
00:10:34 - Dreamland Barbecue.
00:10:35 - Okay.
00:10:36 - It's not where I go, it's in Tuscaloosa.
00:10:38 - What do I order there?
00:10:40 - You don't have a lot of options, dude.
00:10:41 This is real barbecue.
00:10:42 Your options are baby back ribs and banana pudding.
00:10:45 And I suggest you get both.
00:10:46 This is delicious, dude.
00:10:47 - I'm gonna send you a picture.
00:10:48 - Please do.
00:10:49 - Dreamland Barbecue.
00:10:50 - Dreamland Barbecue in Tuscaloosa, you will not regret it.
00:10:52 - What else?
00:10:54 - That's all I got for you.
00:10:54 - Okay, that's it?
00:10:55 - Dude, they are wild.
00:10:58 Dude, so we teach about Jesus.
00:11:01 And then like, hey, let's end with a prayer.
00:11:03 These Alabama fans, I kid you not, dude.
00:11:06 They'd pray for Nick Saban.
00:11:08 I am not making this up.
00:11:10 They would, serious, like, hey, thanks for our blessings.
00:11:13 Please bless Nick Saban.
00:11:15 Like, dude, I'm like, what is going on?
00:11:17 These people are awesome.
00:11:18 Dude, anyway, so I started this LDS mission.
00:11:21 Corrine waits for me two years.
00:11:23 Like, what?
00:11:24 - She stays back?
00:11:24 - Yeah, so she stays back.
00:11:25 - She's in the nursing program.
00:11:26 - She's in the nursing program.
00:11:27 She's going to school and she waits for me, dude.
00:11:29 Which is honestly like, kinda unheard of.
00:11:31 Like, who waits for a guy for two years?
00:11:33 That's a long time.
00:11:34 So I get back from this mission, we get married.
00:11:36 And like, Jeff, like, you're married, you have kids,
00:11:40 you get this.
00:11:41 Like, I don't want to act like we had a perfect marriage.
00:11:44 'Cause I'm not, I was not a perfect husband.
00:11:46 I made mistakes, but dude, like, it was pretty,
00:11:49 it was so good, man.
00:11:51 We had a beautiful marriage, beautiful kids.
00:11:54 So Corrine and I, we had three kids.
00:11:55 Riggins, Blue, and Frankie.
00:11:58 We're from Utah, dude, so we name our kids weird things.
00:12:01 Like, Blue's not even there, that was a color.
00:12:03 But what are you gonna do?
00:12:05 And so like, we have this beautiful family.
00:12:10 After I graduate Dixie State, we actually moved
00:12:13 back up to my hometown.
00:12:15 And I become the head basketball coach
00:12:17 at my old high school, which is super cool.
00:12:20 And we're, you know, Corrine and I and our kids,
00:12:22 we're just loving life, dude.
00:12:25 And dude, high school teachers don't make any money.
00:12:28 And so I have three kids, like, I don't need money.
00:12:31 - Is she nursing or is she at home?
00:12:33 - Corrine works, at this point, Corrine's working
00:12:35 like two days a week at home, and then just watching
00:12:37 the kids, so basically a stay-at-home mom.
00:12:40 So on the side, I start doing basketball workouts.
00:12:42 Like, I start training players.
00:12:44 And it kinda turns into like, this side hustle
00:12:47 becomes like your main, like, man, I'm making
00:12:50 like a good chunk of change with this side hustle,
00:12:53 doing this basketball training.
00:12:55 And then one day, Jeff, like, these dudes
00:12:58 from Southern Utah, where I played college basketball,
00:13:01 which I think that's where they kinda knew me from,
00:13:03 they call me up one day, and they're like,
00:13:05 "Hey, Mace, so-and-so from Nets on Fire,
00:13:08 we want you to come be our main skills trainer guy.
00:13:11 And we want you to help put together AAU teams
00:13:17 and travel and coach."
00:13:19 - So your dream job, basically.
00:13:20 - Dude, it was my dream.
00:13:21 - Minus the jazz calling you to come coach the Utah Jazz.
00:13:25 - For sure, dude.
00:13:26 And like, I tell Corrine, she's like, "What?"
00:13:30 I'm like, "Yeah."
00:13:32 So we move our family, so we move back
00:13:34 to St. George, Southern Utah.
00:13:36 - How old are you right now?
00:13:37 - When we move back?
00:13:39 - Yeah.
00:13:40 - I'm like 30.
00:13:42 - Okay.
00:13:43 - This is pretty recent.
00:13:46 I'm 32.
00:13:47 And so I tell Corrine, I was like, "Yeah, let's do it."
00:13:50 So we move back, we take our kids back to Southern Utah.
00:13:54 And dude, one of my favorite things
00:13:56 about moving back to Southern Utah
00:13:59 is my older brother, Race, is there.
00:14:01 And we were seven years apart
00:14:02 and we just weren't super close in our childhood.
00:14:05 - So you're the fifth one of five?
00:14:06 - I'm the youngest of five.
00:14:08 He's the middle.
00:14:09 - He's the middle.
00:14:09 - We're like seven years apart.
00:14:11 And I love, do you have any other?
00:14:13 - Sister, older.
00:14:13 - Yeah, so you get it.
00:14:14 Like, love my brother.
00:14:16 But I always wish we were a little closer.
00:14:19 - It's a big gap, seven years.
00:14:20 - Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
00:14:21 Just hard.
00:14:22 And so I remember we moved back to St. George
00:14:25 and my brother, Race, lived there.
00:14:26 So now we're hanging out.
00:14:28 Dude, it was so cool, man.
00:14:29 - Did you guys live near each other?
00:14:31 - Yeah, and his youngest son, Ryder,
00:14:32 would babysit my kids when we went to work.
00:14:34 It was perfect.
00:14:35 We had like the perfect system.
00:14:37 Ryder, Race's youngest kid, was 12.
00:14:40 Yeah.
00:14:41 So I take this new job.
00:14:43 Courtney gets a new nursing job that she loves.
00:14:45 Everything's clicking, dude.
00:14:47 And the next weekend is family reunion
00:14:52 with my side of the family.
00:14:53 We usually do it every year.
00:14:55 I'm a big family guy.
00:14:56 Like, I love my family.
00:14:57 Usually go every year.
00:14:59 Like, no sweat, we don't even think about it.
00:15:00 Like, yeah, family reunion, we're in.
00:15:02 But this year, like, I just took this new job
00:15:05 and I feel like I can't just take this job
00:15:08 and then leave the first weekend.
00:15:10 I gotta show these guys that I'm legit
00:15:12 and I'm serious and I'm here, like, I'm committed.
00:15:17 And so I remember I tell my family,
00:15:18 like, hey, Courtney and I, we just can't make it.
00:15:20 I'm sorry.
00:15:21 And they're like, yeah, we get it.
00:15:24 Everything is fine.
00:15:25 And then that Friday rolls around
00:15:27 and my wife, Courtney, is like, hey, Mace,
00:15:28 like, you're gonna be coaching all weekend.
00:15:31 I'm gonna have three kids.
00:15:32 I'm just gonna take them to the family reunion.
00:15:34 We'll be back Sunday.
00:15:35 I'm like, yeah, if you wanna drive and do it,
00:15:37 like, fine, that's fine.
00:15:38 And then my brother, Race, is like, hey,
00:15:42 it's the same family.
00:15:43 So Race is like, I'm going to the family reunion.
00:15:45 Like, yeah, just ride with my family.
00:15:47 So my brother, Race, and his youngest son, Ryder,
00:15:52 went with my family to the family reunion.
00:15:56 My brother's wife, Keisha, and their other two kids
00:16:00 ran in faith, couldn't go.
00:16:01 So they stayed in St. George with me.
00:16:04 And so they leave and that Sunday coming back,
00:16:12 they're driving back from northern Utah to southern Utah.
00:16:16 And like, sandstorm kicks up in Fillmore, Utah.
00:16:24 And I try to stay away from the details of the accident.
00:16:29 So I honestly don't know a whole lot about it
00:16:33 because from, I don't know,
00:16:36 there's just some things I don't wanna know.
00:16:38 I'm not ready to know yet.
00:16:39 I'm not strong enough to know yet.
00:16:41 But they're driving back and a dust storm kicks up
00:16:46 out of nowhere, causes like a, from what I've been told,
00:16:49 like a black, just a black wall
00:16:54 just engulfs this highway and causes a 22 car pile up,
00:16:59 just like a nasty thing.
00:17:04 And the accident kills eight people total.
00:17:07 And five of those people are my family.
00:17:09 And dude, like, Jeff, I think the hardest thing
00:17:16 I had to handle before this was like,
00:17:22 are the jazz gonna cover the spread tonight?
00:17:24 Like, honestly, like,
00:17:26 I don't even remember what I worried about.
00:17:29 So I remember I'm in St. George, Utah,
00:17:32 and it's getting close,
00:17:34 'cause Courtney called me when she left Fillmore
00:17:36 when she's about two hours away.
00:17:37 She's like, "Hey, be home in a little bit.
00:17:39 "Love you."
00:17:40 So yeah, like, "Okay, love you too."
00:17:42 And so I'm sitting at my house in St. George, Utah,
00:17:47 and it should be like the time where they're home,
00:17:51 and they're not home yet.
00:17:52 And my brother's wife, Keisha, calls me.
00:17:55 She's like, "Hey, Mace, have you heard from Courtney
00:17:58 "or Race or anyone?"
00:17:59 I'm like, "No, I haven't."
00:18:00 She's like, "I called them.
00:18:02 "I'm getting no response.
00:18:03 "I'm getting worried."
00:18:05 I'm like, "Keisha, I'm sure it's fine.
00:18:06 "Like, they're just running late traffic, whatever."
00:18:09 She's like, "Okay."
00:18:11 So I hang up with her, and I call Courtney right after,
00:18:13 straight to voicemail, which is weird.
00:18:15 Called my brother, Race, straight to voicemail.
00:18:18 I'm like, "Dang, that's weird."
00:18:20 I'm literally just like kinda looking at my phone,
00:18:22 like just thinking, and my phone rings,
00:18:25 and it's an unknown number, and so I answer it.
00:18:28 It's like, "Hey, I'm Dr. So-and-so from Fillmore, Utah."
00:18:32 And I just talked to my brother's wife, Keisha.
00:18:36 So right off the bat, I'm like, "Doctor, this isn't good."
00:18:41 He's like, "There's been a car accident."
00:18:43 So I'm like, "Oh, shit."
00:18:43 So I put him on speaker, and I text Keisha,
00:18:48 my brother's wife.
00:18:49 I'm like, "Hey, there's been a car accident.
00:18:51 "Come get me."
00:18:52 And I ask Keisha to come get me
00:18:55 because my wife took the car.
00:18:57 All I have is my motorcycle.
00:18:58 I don't have a car.
00:18:59 And in my mind, my unconscious mind
00:19:03 went to worst-case scenario.
00:19:06 And Jeff, for me, worst-case scenario
00:19:08 is my wife and my brother are hurt at the hospital,
00:19:11 laying in a hospital bed.
00:19:12 The kids are in the hallway, scared.
00:19:15 Like, that's where my mind went.
00:19:18 So I text Keisha that, I'm like, "Hey, come get me.
00:19:19 "We gotta go to this hospital."
00:19:21 And then the guy keeps talking,
00:19:23 and he's taking a while to tell me what's going on, Jeff.
00:19:26 And I think he's taking a while
00:19:27 because he's about to tell me the worst news.
00:19:29 So he's making sure it's the right guy.
00:19:31 Like, "Hey, this is Mason Sawyer."
00:19:33 And I think there's a lot of confusion
00:19:35 from the first responders
00:19:36 because I think they originally thought it was one family.
00:19:39 And then they're like, "Oh, shit.
00:19:41 "This is actually maybe two separate families."
00:19:42 So anyway, he's asking me questions like,
00:19:45 "Are you the owner of the Buick?
00:19:46 "Are you the?"
00:19:47 And finally, my dude was going on.
00:19:50 He's like, "There's been a terrible car accident.
00:19:53 "Everyone's dead except one person."
00:19:55 And so I just fall to the ground.
00:20:01 And you heard of the stages of grief,
00:20:05 like acceptance, denial, bargaining, anger.
00:20:08 - Yep.
00:20:09 - I was, dude, and it's how I am today.
00:20:14 Like, it hasn't changed.
00:20:15 I just flipped through the, I just started,
00:20:18 I dropped my phone.
00:20:19 I'm crying, I'm rolling on the ground,
00:20:23 and I'm just flipping through all of them.
00:20:25 Anger, denial, shock, bargaining.
00:20:29 Dude, have you ever listened to a grown man bargain
00:20:33 for his kid?
00:20:34 Like, it's the saddest thing, dude.
00:20:36 Bargaining, I was doing all of them.
00:20:38 Just flipping through them, five seconds.
00:20:42 It is not good.
00:20:43 But every once in a while,
00:20:45 I'd have the acceptance guy, like the survival guy.
00:20:48 He would step in and he's like,
00:20:49 "Hey, you need to pick up the phone."
00:20:52 - He's still on the phone.
00:20:53 - So the doctor's on the phone.
00:20:55 I'm crying.
00:20:56 And the doctor's, so I pick up the phone.
00:20:59 And in my head, I just hear like,
00:21:01 "One survivor, one survivor."
00:21:03 So my mind automatically starts flipping through all of them.
00:21:06 Like, who is it?
00:21:07 Who do I want it to be?
00:21:09 As I stare at my phone?
00:21:11 And dude, if you know anything about my brother, Race,
00:21:13 like dude, my brother Race was just a little nuts.
00:21:17 Like, he was a state champion wrestler.
00:21:22 He just like, kind of like, liked pain.
00:21:27 He got into MMA fighting.
00:21:29 He's just weird, dude.
00:21:30 Just like a weird guy.
00:21:31 And Race is the type of guy, like,
00:21:34 if you tell me one survivor of a 22 car pileup,
00:21:39 my mind went to my brother.
00:21:41 Like, it's gonna be my brother.
00:21:44 I'm gonna pick up this phone and he's gonna say,
00:21:46 "The survivor is your brother."
00:21:48 And dude, that meant if my brother's a survivor,
00:21:52 my whole family's gone.
00:21:54 And I've had so much shame and guilt about this,
00:22:00 but I remember picking up the phone like,
00:22:02 "Please don't be Race.
00:22:04 "Please don't be Race."
00:22:06 And I feel so bad about that.
00:22:07 Like, how can you wish your brother to be dead?
00:22:09 But like, the situation I was in,
00:22:11 like, I wanted it to be my wife or one of my kids.
00:22:14 I honestly, God did.
00:22:15 And so I pick up the phone and--
00:22:19 - I have no guilt to that.
00:22:21 I mean, that's the impossible question.
00:22:22 - And you know what, Jeff?
00:22:23 Part of your podcast is your recipe of success.
00:22:32 - Success formula.
00:22:33 - Success formula.
00:22:34 Dude, let me just, before I forget,
00:22:35 'cause I have a terrible brain.
00:22:37 I just forget shit all the time.
00:22:38 So before I forget, let me tell you,
00:22:39 like, we all have something we need to say.
00:22:44 You have something you need to say to someone
00:22:46 that you haven't yet, and you're hurting really bad.
00:22:48 We all have that.
00:22:49 And we don't say it, and we don't say it
00:22:51 'cause we're scared to not,
00:22:54 I don't know why we don't say it.
00:22:55 Honestly, we're scared to be vulnerable.
00:22:57 We're scared to look weak.
00:22:58 We're scared to accept those things.
00:23:01 But dude, like, part of my success formula is talking.
00:23:04 I just talk to people, dude.
00:23:06 And the podcast that I created with my buddy,
00:23:09 like, it is literally therapy for me.
00:23:12 I get on there, and I just unload all my shit,
00:23:14 and I just talk, and it makes me feel so much better.
00:23:19 - Was that clear to you before the accident?
00:23:21 - No, and one of the reasons I bring it up
00:23:22 is the guilt I had about my brother, Race,
00:23:25 used to really eat at me, dude.
00:23:28 Let's say it used to be 10 out of 10 on the pain scale.
00:23:34 Now, because I've told it to so many people,
00:23:37 and I've told it to my therapist,
00:23:39 and I've talked openly about my pain,
00:23:41 and my guilt, and my shame,
00:23:43 honestly, it's gone from a 10 to like a five or a four.
00:23:47 - But you freed it.
00:23:48 - Yeah.
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00:23:51 to invest in the people and causes that are close to me.
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00:24:46 - And I honestly can't even explain how it helps
00:24:50 or why it helps,
00:24:52 but being vulnerable and opening up
00:24:54 and just expressing my pain
00:24:56 and then watching it connect to other people
00:24:58 has really helped me, man.
00:25:00 Because the two biggest feelings I experienced
00:25:04 after the accident was I felt completely alone
00:25:07 and I felt completely helpless.
00:25:08 What can I do to get them back?
00:25:13 Name it, I'll do it.
00:25:14 There's nothing.
00:25:15 I just feel powerless.
00:25:16 And opening up and talking about my pain,
00:25:20 I've been able to connect to so many other people
00:25:23 that feel that way.
00:25:24 And it's really liberating and amazing, honestly.
00:25:29 So I pick up the phone
00:25:32 and he said the survivor's a three-year-old.
00:25:36 So I fall back down to the ground.
00:25:38 I drop my phone and the whole thing starts over again.
00:25:41 I start rolling around the ground crying.
00:25:43 My wife, Courtney, is gone.
00:25:45 - Now you know.
00:25:46 - Yeah, the survivor's a three-year-old.
00:25:48 So Courtney's gone.
00:25:49 My brother, Race, is gone.
00:25:50 My nephew, Ryder, is gone.
00:25:51 My oldest son, Riggins, is gone.
00:25:53 And so the guy tells,
00:25:56 and dude, Jeff, if we got a recording of that phone call,
00:26:01 I might be completely wrong.
00:26:04 He may have told me step-by-step, perfect, what happened,
00:26:09 but I was so messed up.
00:26:11 I was going through it and I just didn't,
00:26:14 it was probably my fault.
00:26:15 But for whatever reason, as he's telling me this,
00:26:19 it's between my son, Blue, and my daughter, Frankie.
00:26:23 'Cause Frankie could be mistaken as three
00:26:25 and Blue could be mistaken as three
00:26:27 and I want both of them to be alive.
00:26:29 And so my mind's like, well, I can't let anyone go yet.
00:26:33 So for some reason, as we keep talking on this phone call,
00:26:39 as I pick the phone back up
00:26:40 and I'm trying to fight through the tears,
00:26:43 for some reason I think it's my daughter, Frankie.
00:26:45 I just remember thinking that.
00:26:46 The survivor is Frankie.
00:26:49 And so I tell the guy on the phone, I'm confident enough,
00:26:51 I tell the guy on the phone,
00:26:52 oh, you're talking about my daughter, Frankie.
00:26:54 And he said, no, this is not a girl.
00:26:57 This is a boy.
00:26:58 He's got blonde hair, blue eyes.
00:27:00 And my son, Blue, has blonde hair and blue eyes.
00:27:04 So Jeff, you have kids.
00:27:05 Imagine this.
00:27:06 I'm thinking Blue is dead, he's gone,
00:27:10 with my son, Riggins, and everyone else.
00:27:12 And then you're telling me Blue's alive.
00:27:16 It was the most incredible feeling.
00:27:21 Blue's actually alive.
00:27:22 - So you actually, for a moment, had--
00:27:23 - Yeah, I thought Blue was gone.
00:27:25 - A relief.
00:27:26 - Yeah, and for a split second,
00:27:27 oh my gosh, Blue's alive.
00:27:29 But dude, it was like,
00:27:32 the exact same moment.
00:27:36 That means Frankie is gone.
00:27:38 And that crossover messed me up really good, man.
00:27:45 Getting Blue back and then,
00:27:49 what that meant for Frankie,
00:27:51 it was, it just like,
00:27:52 so he tells me he has blonde hair, blue eyes.
00:27:58 And so I say, okay, I think that's my son, Blue.
00:28:02 And I'm not doing good.
00:28:03 I'm not taking this news well.
00:28:04 So the one survivor, he said one survivor.
00:28:06 I don't know if that meant total,
00:28:07 like all 22 cars I got.
00:28:09 I didn't even know if it was from my car.
00:28:11 I don't even know if it's my kid for sure.
00:28:14 But they say they have blonde hair, blue eyes.
00:28:15 We're life-flighting him to the hospital
00:28:19 in Salt Lake City.
00:28:20 And so we're life-flighting him.
00:28:23 And in my mind, I'm like, okay,
00:28:26 like Mason, everyone else in the car is dead.
00:28:29 The one survivor, they're life-flighting?
00:28:31 So in my mind, I'm like having this conversation
00:28:33 with myself, like he's not gonna be okay.
00:28:36 You pull this kid from a car that everyone else is dead,
00:28:38 you have to life-flight him.
00:28:39 Is he missing limbs?
00:28:40 Is he gonna, is he, I don't know what can,
00:28:43 I'm just freaking out, dude.
00:28:44 - You don't even know if the doctor said anything to you.
00:28:46 - And I'm sure he did.
00:28:48 And I have the doctor's back.
00:28:50 I'm not mad at anyone.
00:28:51 I'm sure it was me just not hearing it well.
00:28:55 But I'm like, okay, so then I have to call my parents
00:28:58 and tell them what's going on.
00:28:59 'Cause they live about 45 minutes away from the hospital
00:29:02 that Blue's going to.
00:29:03 So I'm like, hey, can you get to the hospital
00:29:05 so when Blue lands, someone's there for Blue?
00:29:08 'Cause I'm four hours away.
00:29:09 So I have to drive four hours to the hospital.
00:29:12 And I have to drive through the car accident to get there.
00:29:15 It's just not good, dude.
00:29:18 And so I get to the hospital, and my wife's a nurse.
00:29:23 So I get to the hospital,
00:29:27 I just walk through a building of nurses.
00:29:29 It's the whole thing, it just felt like,
00:29:32 so I make it to the room and Blue's there, dude.
00:29:37 My son Blue's there.
00:29:38 And he has a neck brace on, but it's just for precaution.
00:29:40 Like he has a couple scratches on his head.
00:29:43 He had a broken hand.
00:29:44 And that was it.
00:29:46 Like he was 100% totally okay,
00:29:48 and we spent the night in the hospital,
00:29:50 and then we walked out the next day.
00:29:53 - Did your sister-in-law pick you up?
00:29:56 - Dude, so like, my sister-in-law, Keisha,
00:30:00 'cause I called her, I'm like, hey, come pick me up.
00:30:04 And we live in an apartment complex at the time.
00:30:09 And so my sister-in-law, Keisha,
00:30:10 she knows where the apartment complex is,
00:30:12 but she doesn't know the specific one.
00:30:14 So I have to make it to the main road so I can find Keisha.
00:30:19 And it was like, dude, it was like a dramatic,
00:30:23 like every 10 feet I just collapse and cry,
00:30:27 smack the pavement, scream.
00:30:30 And then I'd get back, the acceptance guy,
00:30:32 he'd take over, like, get up, make it to the main road.
00:30:35 And I finally make it to the main road,
00:30:37 Keisha's not there yet.
00:30:39 So I collapse and I start crying,
00:30:40 and I'm smacking the pavement,
00:30:42 and neighbors come running out.
00:30:43 I just look like a man possessed, probably,
00:30:45 just losing my mind.
00:30:47 So then my neighbor's like, what is going on?
00:30:49 I think I tell him what's,
00:30:51 I don't even remember what I said.
00:30:53 Keisha pulls up.
00:30:54 - Does she know yet?
00:30:55 - No.
00:30:56 - You didn't call her?
00:30:57 - Well, the doctor, when the doctor called me,
00:31:00 he's like, I need to talk to Rayce's family,
00:31:02 I need to talk to Rayce's wife, Keisha.
00:31:04 And I told the doctor, I'm like,
00:31:05 she's actually picking me up, I can tell her,
00:31:07 but I'm not gonna tell her
00:31:09 unless I'm 100% sure everyone else is dead.
00:31:11 'Cause there's a lot of confusion in this phone call.
00:31:14 So I'm like, I'm not telling her anything
00:31:15 unless guaranteed everyone else is dead.
00:31:18 And he's like, yeah, everyone else is dead.
00:31:20 So I'm like, okay, I'll tell her.
00:31:21 So I flag Keisha down, and I'm just losing my mind.
00:31:26 So I literally just hop in her car,
00:31:28 shut the door, I'm sitting behind Keisha,
00:31:31 and Keisha's daughter, Faith, is in the passenger seat.
00:31:34 And so I don't know how to say it.
00:31:37 So I'm crying and I'm fighting through tears,
00:31:39 and I say, there's been a car accident,
00:31:40 everyone's dead except maybe Blue.
00:31:42 That's how I say it.
00:31:44 And my niece, Faith, just,
00:31:47 like the whole fight or flight thing,
00:31:50 dude, she just left the car running, dead sprint.
00:31:54 She let out this terrible yelping, screaming sound,
00:31:58 and just took off running.
00:32:01 - How old is she?
00:32:02 - She was 16 at the time.
00:32:03 And then I turn my head, so I see Faith run out,
00:32:07 and so I turn my head back to Keisha,
00:32:09 and I see Keisha's head drop,
00:32:11 and she says, "Oh, my precious rider,"
00:32:14 'cause she just lost her son, Ryder,
00:32:17 along with her husband and Courtney and Frankie Riggins.
00:32:22 And so, dude, one of the,
00:32:25 and then I had to leave 'em, dude.
00:32:26 So I'm trying to get Faith under control.
00:32:29 I'm trying to hold Keisha.
00:32:31 I'm trying to talk to my parents on the phone.
00:32:34 And then I asked my buddy, Jake,
00:32:36 like, "You gotta drive me.
00:32:37 "I'm in no condition to drive.
00:32:39 "You need to drive me to Salt Lake."
00:32:41 So he comes and picks me up,
00:32:42 and so I have to leave Keisha, dude.
00:32:44 It broke my heart.
00:32:44 Like, how, I had to, like, maybe Blue's alive.
00:32:47 I have to go.
00:32:48 I'm so sorry, but I left him there
00:32:49 with a bunch of strangers.
00:32:51 Dude, like, guilt,
00:32:53 and I don't know if you've gone through
00:32:56 a traumatic experience, Jeff,
00:32:57 but like, there's so much shame and guilt
00:33:00 wrapped into trauma.
00:33:02 And like, you think about your trauma long enough,
00:33:05 you just find ways to blame yourself.
00:33:09 You just do.
00:33:10 Like, you think about it long enough,
00:33:11 you're like, "I shoulda, I coulda."
00:33:13 And like, survivor's guilt, dude.
00:33:16 I just, Jeff, I wish I was in that car so bad.
00:33:20 - Mm-hmm.
00:33:20 - I wish it was me and Blue
00:33:23 instead of my brother, Race, and Ryder,
00:33:25 and we were all just gone.
00:33:27 Like, just take all of us together.
00:33:29 - Yep.
00:33:30 - Leave my family, leave my brother's family alone.
00:33:32 That would've been way easier.
00:33:34 - I mean, that point is why I wanna talk to you so bad.
00:33:39 - Dude, like--
00:33:40 - Because how you're sitting here,
00:33:41 I think if I was in your shoes,
00:33:43 I'd either be dead or a monk in the Himalayas.
00:33:48 - But dude, like, and you said something
00:33:50 to start this podcast that reminded me of it,
00:33:52 but if you were to tell me two years ago,
00:33:54 like, "Hey, you're gonna lose your wife, Courtney,
00:33:56 "your son, Riggins, your daughter, Frankie,
00:34:00 "your brother, Race, and your nephew, Ryder,
00:34:03 "and then you're going to be starting a business
00:34:06 "and a podcast and public speaking a year and a half later,"
00:34:10 I would've been like, "You are insane.
00:34:12 "I'm gonna put a bullet in my head."
00:34:13 Or, "I'm just gonna be a zombie."
00:34:15 How does anyone do that?
00:34:20 But one thing I've learned is, dude,
00:34:21 people are so resilient.
00:34:23 I'm shocked that I'm here.
00:34:27 People ask me, "How are you doing?"
00:34:28 And my answer is, "I don't know."
00:34:31 I don't know.
00:34:32 But if it happened to you, you could probably do it.
00:34:36 I honestly think that, 'cause,
00:34:38 Jeff, I'm nothing special, dude.
00:34:40 I was a kid from Utah, high school basketball coach,
00:34:43 making 48K a year, lost his family.
00:34:47 And dude, any average Joe,
00:34:51 whatever you're going through, it is possible.
00:34:53 You can do it.
00:34:55 And let's just cut the bullshit.
00:34:57 If you've gone through a traumatic experience,
00:35:00 let me just, you're screwed.
00:35:03 You are, I swear to God, Jeff, you are.
00:35:05 Happiness, joy, that life that you used to know,
00:35:11 I'm not sure if you're ever gonna get back.
00:35:13 And what's weird about trauma, Jeff,
00:35:15 is you kinda don't want it back.
00:35:19 Because the love I had for my wife and kids
00:35:21 and my brother and my nephew, it's turned to pain.
00:35:23 So if I get rid of the pain, I get rid of them.
00:35:27 And then there's a whole bunch of guilt.
00:35:28 So shit, it doesn't make any sense, dude.
00:35:30 - 'Cause you feel guilty to even be happy.
00:35:32 - It's like, dude, and I kid you not, I love motorcycles.
00:35:36 So I was riding my motorcycle the other day,
00:35:38 and I'm just having a great time.
00:35:40 And then boom, that voice in my head,
00:35:43 like, Mason, how dare you be happy?
00:35:47 Your wife died, your kids died, your brother,
00:35:50 how dare you?
00:35:51 You should be miserable.
00:35:52 You should have never left your bed.
00:35:54 You should be crying right now.
00:35:56 And the guilt and the survivor's guilt is so real,
00:35:59 and it just hits you like that
00:36:01 and just shuts me down sometimes.
00:36:02 - Well, do you think the fact that Blue survived
00:36:05 forced you to not go that other way?
00:36:11 - If Blue didn't survive,
00:36:12 I would've put a bullet in my head for sure.
00:36:14 - So he's, in a way, he's your North Star.
00:36:19 - Well, and I forget the guy,
00:36:21 but motivational speaker that I used to watch a lot.
00:36:26 He talked about find your why.
00:36:27 Like, you need a strong why.
00:36:28 And there's like this cool Buster Douglas video he made.
00:36:32 It was cool, man.
00:36:33 Like, pumped me up, like, find your why.
00:36:35 And Blue's my why.
00:36:38 And it was weird because after the accident,
00:36:40 I was in this weird limbo, Jeff,
00:36:42 where like, I didn't wanna live.
00:36:45 Dude, death, I'm weird, but like, I understand death now.
00:36:49 I've accepted it.
00:36:50 I find the beauty in it.
00:36:51 We need it.
00:36:52 It's the, like, it ties everything together.
00:36:55 But like, I had the hardest time accepting that,
00:37:00 like the role death plays.
00:37:04 And I, oh, I'm so messed up, Jeff.
00:37:09 - No. (laughing)
00:37:12 - It's not good.
00:37:13 But like, another thing I've learned is,
00:37:16 I was caught in this weird limbo.
00:37:19 I didn't wanna live, I didn't wanna die.
00:37:22 And so I just numb the pain, alcohol, drugs, whatever.
00:37:27 - It's natural.
00:37:29 - Yeah, and like, I just, I couldn't look at pictures
00:37:33 of 'em, I couldn't talk about 'em,
00:37:35 couldn't hear their voice in a video.
00:37:36 It just shut me down.
00:37:38 If I saw police sirens, I'd have to pull over
00:37:40 and cry, like panic attack.
00:37:42 If I got a phone call from an unknown number,
00:37:45 panic attack, it just, throw me into a panic attack.
00:37:48 I was just helpless against my trauma.
00:37:50 I just, it owned me for so long.
00:37:54 And part of the reason it owned me was I ran from it.
00:37:57 I just tried to run from it.
00:37:58 I can't deal with this.
00:37:59 And I welcomed death.
00:38:00 Like, the way I saw death, Jeff, is okay, if I die,
00:38:03 I might get to see him again, which sounds awesome.
00:38:06 Or the pain stops, which sounds awesome.
00:38:10 So like, that's where I was, dude.
00:38:14 Not a healthy mindset to have.
00:38:16 But I had blue, I loved blue more than anything,
00:38:18 could never do it.
00:38:20 And so then I got into therapy.
00:38:22 Have you ever done therapy?
00:38:23 - Just one or two sessions.
00:38:25 - Dude, I think that the mindset we have in our culture
00:38:28 with men doing therapy is terrible.
00:38:30 We gotta change it right away.
00:38:31 - It's hard.
00:38:32 - It is, like, you're not a douchebag, you're not a wimp.
00:38:36 You're normal.
00:38:37 We're all hurting, dude.
00:38:39 - Men, we struggle to find our feelings.
00:38:41 They're good locked up somewhere else.
00:38:43 - I have such a hard time finding guys
00:38:45 to come on my podcast.
00:38:46 Like, no one wants to, like.
00:38:48 (laughing)
00:38:50 Sorry, what were we talking about, though?
00:38:53 - Survive, overcoming it.
00:38:56 - Yeah, so I'm in this weird limbo.
00:38:58 I'm just running from it, dude.
00:38:59 Drugs, alcohol, like, whatever.
00:39:01 Numb the pain.
00:39:02 - Anything to numb it.
00:39:03 - Numb it, run from it.
00:39:05 I go to therapy, my therapist, Matt Quackenbush,
00:39:08 he's like, "Mason."
00:39:09 I'll never forget this, Jeff, it was great.
00:39:10 He's like, "First therapy session."
00:39:12 First therapy session, dude.
00:39:15 He's like, "Mace."
00:39:17 He's like, "I wouldn't blame you if you took your own life."
00:39:19 He's like, "I don't think anyone would."
00:39:21 I'm like.
00:39:22 - That's an interesting thing for a therapist.
00:39:24 - I'll do it, man.
00:39:25 Like, you think I'm playing, like, I'll.
00:39:26 (laughing)
00:39:27 I'm like, what?
00:39:29 And then he said, he's like, "I wouldn't blame you."
00:39:32 He's like, "But you know what, Mason?"
00:39:34 He said, "This car accident is not about you,
00:39:37 "and it's not about Blue."
00:39:39 I'm like, this, like, who is,
00:39:41 I was getting pissed off.
00:39:42 - He was wanting to hit him.
00:39:43 - Like, and like,
00:39:46 everything I learned about basketball and teamwork,
00:39:49 like, the whole thing,
00:39:50 it just came flooding back when he said this.
00:39:52 But he's like, he's like, "Mason, like, you could do that,
00:39:56 "but you have an opportunity.
00:39:59 "It's like, you have an opportunity
00:40:01 "that very few people have."
00:40:04 He's like, he said, "Mason, if you want,
00:40:06 "you can help so many people."
00:40:09 He's like, "It's not about you and Blue.
00:40:10 "It's about seven billion other people
00:40:12 "that you now have this weird opportunity.
00:40:15 "You get to help them."
00:40:16 And then he said, I'll never forget this,
00:40:18 he said, "Mason, tomorrow,
00:40:19 "someone's gonna lose a spouse.
00:40:21 "Someone's gonna lose a son or a daughter.
00:40:24 "Someone's gonna lose a brother or a sister.
00:40:25 "Someone's gonna lose a niece or a nephew.
00:40:27 "You can help all of them."
00:40:28 And then he said, "Mason, tell me some of the things
00:40:31 "you're feeling, like, some of your emotions."
00:40:34 I said, "I feel helpless.
00:40:36 "I feel powerless."
00:40:37 I named a bunch of other ones.
00:40:38 And he said, "Yeah," he's like,
00:40:40 "you, so many people feel like that.
00:40:42 "You are not alone.
00:40:43 "It's like, you can help so many people."
00:40:46 And he said, and he explained it to me.
00:40:48 He's like, "Mason, you think opportunity comes
00:40:51 "from good things, like hard work,
00:40:55 "or things kind of line up, and you get this opportunity."
00:40:58 He's like, "Mason, that's not how life works at all.
00:41:00 "Opportunities can come from the worst situations."
00:41:05 - And they usually do.
00:41:06 - That's what he said, and he's like,
00:41:07 "Mason, what you have here, as bad as it is,
00:41:10 "and as unfair as it is, you have an opportunity."
00:41:14 And that whole conversation took two minutes
00:41:17 out of an hour-long therapy session.
00:41:18 I don't remember what we talked about
00:41:20 the other 58 minutes, but I remember--
00:41:22 - That was the gold.
00:41:22 - I remember leaving his therapy session,
00:41:24 kind of like halftime, the coach pumped you up,
00:41:27 like, "Okay, yeah."
00:41:30 And then I kind of, from that moment,
00:41:33 I kind of fell into the Stoicism stuff.
00:41:35 So I don't know if you get into
00:41:36 the Stoic philosophy stuff at all,
00:41:37 but I started reading all, I read the book,
00:41:39 "Obstacles the Way."
00:41:41 I fell in love with the Stoicism thing.
00:41:42 And I remember I came across this quote,
00:41:45 Marcus Aurelius quote, that says,
00:41:47 "When death smiles at you, all a man can do is smile back."
00:41:51 - It's a great quote.
00:41:52 - And it hit me, and I realized,
00:41:57 death's been laughing at me, smiling at me,
00:42:02 for a year, as I've been running away from it.
00:42:04 And therapy and other things,
00:42:07 and my desire to want to help people,
00:42:09 made me turn around and smile back at death.
00:42:13 And like, all right, bring it on.
00:42:16 Like, you thought taking my family away would cripple me?
00:42:19 Like, actually, no.
00:42:21 Like, you screwed up, fate.
00:42:22 You should have never done this to me,
00:42:23 because I'm gonna make something great from this.
00:42:26 I'm gonna help so many people
00:42:27 that you're gonna rue the day that you took my family.
00:42:31 And that's kind of been my mindset from Stoicism,
00:42:34 is like, life's not fair, it's brutal,
00:42:39 but what are you gonna do about it?
00:42:41 And from that mindset, my dad sent me this quote,
00:42:46 my favorite quote, "Life's 10% what happens to you,
00:42:48 "and 90% what you're gonna do about it."
00:42:51 And that, like, yeah, that's my whole thing.
00:42:55 - And the name of your podcast.
00:42:56 - Yeah, that's the name of my podcast,
00:42:57 that's the name of the company we're starting,
00:42:59 the public speaking, that's the name of everything.
00:43:02 1090, like, life's 10% what happens to you,
00:43:05 all you can control is what are you gonna do about it.
00:43:09 That's the real test of a man.
00:43:10 And what's really brutal and unfair about life is,
00:43:13 dude, pain is guaranteed from the womb.
00:43:17 You're born into this world screaming and crying,
00:43:20 it's full of pain.
00:43:21 Happiness, joy, that stuff's not guaranteed, dude.
00:43:25 Like, good luck, and you might have moments
00:43:27 where you're in it, but life is pain.
00:43:30 And the true test of a man is how you're gonna handle
00:43:33 that pain, at least in my opinion.
00:43:35 - Well, and everyone's version of success is different.
00:43:37 - Yeah. - Right?
00:43:38 - Yeah.
00:43:39 - Success for me is different what success for you is,
00:43:41 and how you define it.
00:43:43 And so often in the journey towards whatever
00:43:45 we're aiming for and whatever our goals are,
00:43:48 the setbacks, the experiences, the traumas,
00:43:51 the difficulties knock us off course.
00:43:53 And I mean, you're the exceptional exception
00:43:58 of how you've overcome something
00:44:01 that would beyond cripple most.
00:44:03 I mean, I can sit here and talk to you,
00:44:06 and I can hear you say, "Yeah, you'd find it,"
00:44:09 or, "People are resilient."
00:44:10 And I'm a strong-minded individual who,
00:44:13 I'm sitting here telling you everyone can be successful
00:44:15 in the success format and overcome adversity.
00:44:17 That level of adversity is something,
00:44:19 it's like the size of space.
00:44:22 I just can't, my brain can't quantify how.
00:44:25 - But like, what's your famous thing, Ian?
00:44:29 What's your bowl thing?
00:44:31 - Ever Bowl? - Ever Bowl.
00:44:33 Dude, like, if you told me, like, Mason,
00:44:35 you're gonna start a very successful business,
00:44:39 I'd be like, "I can't.
00:44:41 "There's no way." - Don't just start a business.
00:44:42 - I can't do that.
00:44:43 Like, you look at me, and you're like, "I can't do that."
00:44:45 I look at you, and I think the same thing.
00:44:46 Like, there's no way I can do that.
00:44:48 It's all the same, dude.
00:44:49 We're all doing the same thing.
00:44:50 - We're trying.
00:44:51 - And one of the things that, dude, okay.
00:44:53 One of the things I hate is, dude,
00:44:56 this happens to me all the time.
00:44:57 How long are your podcasts?
00:44:59 How long have we been? - 45 minutes to an hour.
00:45:00 - Are we good? - Yeah, we're good.
00:45:01 - Okay, you can just cut me off whenever.
00:45:03 - It's not gonna happen.
00:45:03 - No, but dude, one of the things people tell me is,
00:45:06 they come up to me, like, "Hey, I lost my."
00:45:08 The first thing they say is,
00:45:10 "I haven't experienced anything you've experienced,
00:45:12 "but I lost my brother, I lost my wife, I lost my."
00:45:14 I'm like, "Just the saddest things."
00:45:16 Like, dude, like, okay.
00:45:18 The victim game. - Yep.
00:45:22 - This is a big thing we're at with 1090,
00:45:25 is like, you can't be the victim of your trauma.
00:45:29 And it's not an excuse for you not to try hard.
00:45:33 Like, despite what's happened to me,
00:45:35 I still have to set goals, I still have to be a good dad,
00:45:37 I still have to sacrifice, I still have to be a kind person.
00:45:40 I can't just do whatever I want now.
00:45:43 Like, the world took everything from me,
00:45:45 it owes me nothing, that's why it's brutally unfair.
00:45:48 I still have to get off my ass and work hard.
00:45:50 And so people who play the victim card
00:45:52 drives me nuts for a couple reasons.
00:45:54 One is, if I play the victim card with my family,
00:45:56 I think it's totally disrespectful to my family.
00:46:00 I do, I think it's totally disrespectful to them.
00:46:02 How dare I say I can't do this because they,
00:46:05 like, they wouldn't want me to do that.
00:46:07 My wife would, no, no way.
00:46:11 And like, and that's the tough thing is,
00:46:14 we're trying to create a space,
00:46:17 a healthy space for guys or anyone to open up.
00:46:22 Like, I'm hurting, I need to talk to someone,
00:46:23 this is not good, but not being a victim.
00:46:27 And it's a hard, it's a weird yin and a yang,
00:46:29 like, where's that balance?
00:46:31 Because we don't want to be the victim,
00:46:33 but we also need to express our pain.
00:46:36 It's a hard, like, teeter-totter to balance that out.
00:46:38 - But being vulnerable and victim are different.
00:46:40 - Yeah, and dude, like--
00:46:42 - It's hard, that's a hard line.
00:46:44 - Yeah, why is it so hard?
00:46:46 - Because victim is easier.
00:46:48 I think a lot of people--
00:46:49 - Or what's the difference?
00:46:49 - Well, victim is, poor me, it's out of my control.
00:46:53 Vulnerable is, I recognize it's out of my control.
00:46:55 - What can I do?
00:46:56 - What can I do?
00:46:57 And I'm willing to face the pain of whatever it is,
00:47:01 or the reality of whatever it is, to achieve.
00:47:04 And that's what I find as I go through
00:47:08 what I'm going through with people
00:47:09 and helping them become successful
00:47:11 in different, more entrepreneurial business,
00:47:13 less on the personal side, and I'm not a therapist,
00:47:15 so I have zero training or skills on that.
00:47:17 - Dude, that's where I'm at.
00:47:18 - Yeah, but I can talk to Doug.
00:47:20 - Like, take everyone's word, dude, I don't know.
00:47:21 I like basketball, so I don't know what I'm talking about.
00:47:24 - I can start a company, but family stuff.
00:47:26 - Yeah, dude, but I hate the whole victim thing.
00:47:29 - But it plays both ways.
00:47:30 - No, yeah.
00:47:31 - Oh, I can't do this because, I can't do this because,
00:47:34 I can't do the--
00:47:34 - It's like, listen, dude, you can't get a job,
00:47:37 do all this stuff, and then when it comes crunch time,
00:47:40 time for you to deliver, you're like, oh, my family died.
00:47:43 Like, no, no, no, no, you took the job,
00:47:46 you said you could do it, you gotta get it done.
00:47:49 And that stuff drives me nuts, dude.
00:47:54 - Well, I speak to entrepreneurship classes in college,
00:47:57 and I try to explain to them that,
00:48:00 in every movie that you like,
00:48:01 the hero has to almost die, or the talent,
00:48:05 or it has to almost fail,
00:48:07 'cause they have to persevere through it.
00:48:09 That storm has to happen so we can win in the end.
00:48:12 It's just required, and most people quit
00:48:15 or victimize themselves at that storm,
00:48:17 and it's not anywhere near, like,
00:48:20 it won't matter in five years,
00:48:22 oh, COVID ruined my business.
00:48:24 - Dude, yeah. - Right?
00:48:27 In 10 years, you won't even remember about that,
00:48:29 or I lost this customer because the plane was delayed,
00:48:33 and I missed my flight, and I missed the big opportunity,
00:48:36 and it ruined me because that was my dream job.
00:48:39 Nothing like losing your family situation.
00:48:41 - And Jeff, like, dude, dude,
00:48:44 that's, like, let's say, hey, COVID ruined my business.
00:48:48 That might be 100% true.
00:48:51 He might be right, but that mentality is for losers.
00:48:55 You can't have that mentality.
00:48:57 If your mentality is like, okay, despite COVID,
00:48:59 what could I have done better?
00:49:01 That mentality is where you learn from failure
00:49:05 and where you're able to grow, and that's,
00:49:07 like, dude, I think failure's great.
00:49:11 Every kid needs to experience failure
00:49:14 and take accountability, and that's how you get better,
00:49:16 but now it's just turned into, like,
00:49:18 oh, you're not doing good in school?
00:49:20 It's the teacher's fault now.
00:49:21 - Sure, of course.
00:49:22 - Like, what?
00:49:23 - It's easier to point. - What?
00:49:25 Yeah, and, like, that whole thing,
00:49:26 like, that's part of the 10/90 message is,
00:49:29 okay, take a story as sad as mine,
00:49:32 and I keep going every day, and, like,
00:49:35 when people, like, dude, we got some haters out there
00:49:42 that don't, like, I love it.
00:49:45 That's when you know, like, you're making some noise finally
00:49:48 when you're pissing some people off.
00:49:50 Like, I kinda wanna piss people off.
00:49:51 Like, if Mason Sawyer can keep going,
00:49:54 then what excuse do I have?
00:49:55 - Well, yeah, you actually take the excuse away.
00:49:57 - That's what I'm trying to do.
00:49:58 - You're the example that says--
00:49:59 - Honestly, that's, like, what I'm trying to do.
00:50:01 - Just like, I go home tonight,
00:50:04 and I'm gonna be frustrated.
00:50:05 - Like, if you're not a good dad tonight,
00:50:07 like, screw you, dude. - Yes.
00:50:09 - Like, what are you doing?
00:50:10 - Like, if I don't go home and kiss my daughters
00:50:12 and hold them tight and just be thankful that they're here.
00:50:14 - Yeah.
00:50:16 - It should be that way every day.
00:50:18 - Dude, and when we do our,
00:50:19 and I do my 1090 stuff with Ryan, who's our producer,
00:50:23 and then my good buddy Sam Josie, who's our co-host.
00:50:26 And, like, dude, just the perspective shift we give people,
00:50:31 that's the number one thing people tell us
00:50:33 after we do our public speaking stuff,
00:50:34 is whether it's for their business
00:50:37 or whatever it is that people, they tell us that.
00:50:40 Like, dude, you just shifted our whole perspective.
00:50:44 Thank you.
00:50:45 So, that's usually the responses we get.
00:50:49 - No, I mean, it's incredible.
00:50:50 And the business, I wanna touch a little bit on the business.
00:50:53 - See, but here's the thing. - The 1090 business.
00:50:55 - All right, what, what do you got?
00:50:56 - I wanna know about it.
00:50:57 So, we got the podcast. - I do, too.
00:50:59 I don't, listen. - Come on.
00:51:00 (laughing)
00:51:03 - Like, the 1090 thing, like, it's not attached
00:51:11 to, like, a bank account or, like, a trip to Maui for me.
00:51:14 It's attached to my wife and kids and my, so, like,
00:51:17 the business side's really weird for me.
00:51:20 'Cause I don't want a yacht or a big house.
00:51:24 I just have a message that means--
00:51:26 - You wanna amplify it. - Yeah, that's all it is.
00:51:29 And I know nothing about business.
00:51:30 - That's what's great about it, success.
00:51:32 Success for you is that. - Yeah.
00:51:34 - Where someone else's success might be a private jet,
00:51:36 and someone else's success might be to inspire 1,000 people.
00:51:39 - Well, if I had a private jet, I could get my message.
00:51:41 It's like, so it's like-- - Well, I will tell you--
00:51:43 - I like this thing, dude.
00:51:45 I hate it, I hate it. - I will tell you,
00:51:47 the more money you accumulate-- - Yeah, I know.
00:51:49 I've been told. - The more you can do.
00:51:51 - I get it, I know.
00:51:51 It's just like, think of it from my perspective.
00:51:54 - You don't care about the money.
00:51:55 - Right, like, let's say, like,
00:51:57 let's say what happened to me happened to you.
00:52:00 Heaven forbid, like, it won't.
00:52:01 Let's pray it never does.
00:52:03 But let's say it happens, and then you have a cool message.
00:52:06 Someone wants you to, like, hey, come to my company
00:52:08 and share your message.
00:52:08 How much do you charge?
00:52:10 Wouldn't that make you, like,
00:52:13 what would you say to them?
00:52:15 - Well, I can't put myself in the position
00:52:17 to know how I feel. - What would you say to 'em?
00:52:19 - But right now, I would say to you.
00:52:22 - No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
00:52:23 - Let me give you advice, 'cause I don't know
00:52:24 how to do it to myself. - No, no, no, no, no, no.
00:52:25 Don't get off the fence.
00:52:26 What would you do?
00:52:27 If you were me-- - I would charge 'em.
00:52:29 - Yeah, but it's like, so this is what I tell 'em.
00:52:32 Yeah, and they ask me, how much do you charge?
00:52:35 I usually tell 'em, like, whatever you want.
00:52:36 - That's what I used to do on stage.
00:52:38 - And dude, I get-- - I said yes.
00:52:39 - I get paid, like, 200 bucks or--
00:52:41 - Or $2,000. - $4,000.
00:52:42 - Or free. - And it's just like.
00:52:44 (laughing)
00:52:46 - When I first-- - That's not good, dude.
00:52:48 And it's not good.
00:52:50 - When I first started speaking on stages,
00:52:51 I used to just say, what do you charge?
00:52:53 I say yes is what I charge.
00:52:55 Whatever your budget is-- - That's what I say.
00:52:57 - That's what I charge. - Whatever, like, idea you had,
00:52:59 let's roll with that.
00:53:00 - But I got educated, and advisors and mentors taught me,
00:53:04 you've gotta set the value.
00:53:06 - I know, I get, but dude, let me tell you this story.
00:53:07 - You have to. - Let me tell you
00:53:08 another story. - Not for you,
00:53:10 but for your message.
00:53:11 - Let me tell you this story.
00:53:12 So this is right after the funeral.
00:53:15 So this is a couple weeks after the accident,
00:53:18 and I'm driving by, I'm in Taylorsville, Murray, Utah.
00:53:22 I'm turning onto Redwood by this gas station,
00:53:25 and there's this homeless family.
00:53:27 Homeless, wife, husband, wife, couple kids,
00:53:30 like, running around behind them
00:53:31 in the gas station parking lot,
00:53:33 and they have a sign up, homeless, please help.
00:53:36 And dude, I remember driving by them, like,
00:53:38 dude, that is heaven on earth.
00:53:41 Like, what else do you need?
00:53:42 Put the sign down and turn around and play with your kids.
00:53:44 Like, it looked, like, dude, you have everything.
00:53:49 I, and it was like, and so when people ask,
00:53:52 like, the whole business thing, I honestly, I can't even,
00:53:56 I've been trying to help get people, like,
00:53:58 hey, take care of that for me.
00:54:00 It's a mess, and with my trauma and with my anxiety
00:54:03 and with my PTSD, I got issues, dude.
00:54:05 I got a lot of shit I gotta handle.
00:54:07 - Sure.
00:54:08 - So when people say, what's the business?
00:54:09 I honestly, God, don't know.
00:54:11 - That's okay.
00:54:12 - And Ryan and Sam, they schedule everything,
00:54:14 and they just call me, like,
00:54:15 hey, you're going here this week.
00:54:16 I'm like, okay.
00:54:18 - But that's okay.
00:54:18 - Dude, I was on your podcast.
00:54:20 I forgot what your thing was.
00:54:21 That's who I am.
00:54:22 I don't know what's going on.
00:54:23 I work off three hours, three hour increments.
00:54:26 That's me.
00:54:28 That's trauma.
00:54:29 - But that's a formula for you to keep going.
00:54:32 - For sure.
00:54:32 Okay, can I say one more thing about my formula?
00:54:34 - Please.
00:54:35 - You can say as many things as you want.
00:54:36 - And I got this from my therapist.
00:54:37 And dude, I knew this my whole life through sports.
00:54:40 It's weird.
00:54:41 I knew the whole thing, but my therapist retold me,
00:54:43 and that sounds legit, man.
00:54:47 But my therapist, Mason, it's we over me.
00:54:50 And he's right.
00:54:52 And trauma makes you so selfish.
00:54:56 I just wake up, and I think of my wife,
00:54:59 and then my son, and then my daughter,
00:55:01 and all the memories we had,
00:55:02 and what they would be currently doing today,
00:55:05 and how old they would be,
00:55:06 and what our day-to-day schedule would be like today.
00:55:09 So I get through that.
00:55:10 And then I get to my brother.
00:55:12 And so I get through,
00:55:14 I don't remember what we were talking about.
00:55:15 What were we talking about?
00:55:16 - The we over me.
00:55:17 - Okay, so we versus me.
00:55:18 So I get, trauma makes you so selfish.
00:55:20 That's in my mind all day.
00:55:22 And it literally took me three to four months,
00:55:27 maybe longer, Jeff, to like,
00:55:29 oh, my parents are hurting too.
00:55:32 Like, think of my parents.
00:55:33 They just lost son, daughter-in-law, three grandkids.
00:55:36 It took me forever to be like, oh, they're hurting too.
00:55:41 And my therapist restated the idea of we over me.
00:55:47 The minute I started doing public speaking,
00:55:51 and podcasting, and helping other people,
00:55:54 the minute I forgot about me,
00:55:57 and started trying to connect and help other people,
00:55:59 dude, that saved me, man.
00:56:02 That was like, and so it was kind of like,
00:56:05 my why went from blue,
00:56:07 like, hey, you can't kill yourself because of blue.
00:56:09 It went from that to, you can help so many people, dude.
00:56:13 And that's kind of like my new,
00:56:15 now I have blue and like the 10/90 purpose.
00:56:18 And my therapist, I remember asking my therapist, Jeff,
00:56:22 I love my therapist.
00:56:23 He's so real, he's so raw, I love it.
00:56:26 I remember asking him, like, dude--
00:56:27 - Has he been on your show?
00:56:29 - He has, yeah.
00:56:30 And I've been on, he has a podcast that I've been on.
00:56:32 We're buddies, dude.
00:56:34 Anyway, so he was talking,
00:56:38 I forgot what I was talking about.
00:56:40 - We over me?
00:56:41 - We over me.
00:56:42 And yeah, so my therapist told me, he's like,
00:56:46 Mace, like, if you help other people,
00:56:50 it's gonna take the spotlight
00:56:52 from your own individual demons,
00:56:55 and it's gonna like, I can't even explain it, dude.
00:56:59 But like, and I don't even believe
00:57:01 in like the literal God or Jesus, like I don't think,
00:57:04 but like the message of Jesus is like, spot on, dude.
00:57:09 Like love, love your neighbor,
00:57:11 love your enemy, the golden rule.
00:57:14 That's it, dude.
00:57:16 I'm full of so much pain and agony and regret
00:57:20 and survivor's guilt that love and helping others
00:57:25 and we over me is, it saved me, dude.
00:57:29 - Hey, everybody, looking for great insights?
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00:57:57 (upbeat music)
00:57:59 It's your host, Jeff Fenster,
00:58:01 and I have something very exciting to share with you today.
00:58:04 You know, here on the Jeff Fenster Show,
00:58:05 we're all about growth, both personally and professionally.
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00:58:48 Well, I think the business side of the message,
00:58:57 the vision that you see or you're trying to do,
00:59:00 as that being where I have more expertise in my life
00:59:04 and I feel more comfortable talking about it,
00:59:07 you need to build it, if not for you, for them.
00:59:11 Because God forbid I was in that situation,
00:59:15 I need a Mason Sawyer's message to lean on
00:59:18 to find that roadmap.
00:59:20 If you don't do it, then we have to wait for someone else
00:59:23 who's been devastated with pain and hurt to do it, right?
00:59:27 - Yeah. - So the fact
00:59:27 that you are doing that, the fact that you are speaking
00:59:29 and going up there, it's not that you don't want
00:59:33 to spread the message, 'cause doing it for free
00:59:35 is obviously you think everyone's gonna hear it.
00:59:36 The problem is no one's gonna hear it,
00:59:38 'cause you're gonna run out of resources.
00:59:41 And people don't know what they don't know.
00:59:43 They don't hear what they don't hear.
00:59:45 The more and louder you can spread that message,
00:59:49 that resilience, that perseverance, those qualities,
00:59:52 that formula that you're using to succeed now,
00:59:55 and that your success is not money,
00:59:57 your success is to spread that message
00:59:58 and be that resource for these people that need it.
01:00:03 Because unfortunately, you are living
01:00:05 what is the ultimate nightmare for a parent.
01:00:09 And nobody who is a parent can think about
01:00:14 what they would do, 'cause we just don't know.
01:00:17 And we don't wanna know.
01:00:18 But in that dark tunnel, that message is there.
01:00:23 And it's true, even simpler, right?
01:00:25 Like that message doesn't have to just be
01:00:26 for the ultimate traumas.
01:00:27 - Dude, it could be for sports, it could be for business.
01:00:30 - Dude, that's why Jordan didn't make his high school team.
01:00:32 He could've quit.
01:00:33 - Dude, when we do our public speaking gigs,
01:00:34 we go to high schools, universities,
01:00:36 elementaries, law firms, construction companies.
01:00:39 The trauma of death is intertwined with any obstacle
01:00:44 in life that it allows us this really cool platform.
01:00:47 Like we can go talk to anyone.
01:00:49 - I love it, it's so cool.
01:00:50 - Well, and death is the ultimate,
01:00:52 but there's so many challenges.
01:00:54 We all, in a way, you also take away all of the energy
01:00:59 behind all of the excuses that the rest of us have.
01:01:02 All of the victimhood the rest of us have.
01:01:04 Like you said, after hearing your story,
01:01:06 if I was at an event and I heard you on stage,
01:01:09 and I came home to realize that I didn't land
01:01:11 that big client, and it was bothering me,
01:01:14 I would feel like a piece of shit.
01:01:16 I'd be like, this man lost his family.
01:01:19 And he's standing here with the fortitude
01:01:22 and ability to talk about it.
01:01:24 And it's important, I think, for people listening
01:01:26 to this show and learning about your story
01:01:28 for the first time and having their own challenges
01:01:30 and saying, yeah, it's easy for most of the guests
01:01:33 that are on here are successful financially,
01:01:35 and that's more what we talk about,
01:01:37 to say, oh, it's easy, you have money,
01:01:38 and it's easy to make money when you have money,
01:01:40 and it's easy to be successful if you have
01:01:41 all these degrees, and I don't have all those things,
01:01:43 and I'm not the smartest, or I don't have
01:01:45 the relationship capital, and I don't, I don't,
01:01:47 I don't, I don't, I don't.
01:01:49 And the truth is, you don't need it
01:01:52 because you actually have more than you realize,
01:01:54 and those are just the barriers that the mental fortitude,
01:01:57 that perseverance, the ability to overcome obstacles
01:01:59 and keep pushing forward is what success happens.
01:02:03 It's how it happens.
01:02:05 You went to Florida and didn't feel
01:02:07 like you were gonna make it.
01:02:07 - Did. - You didn't quit.
01:02:08 - Brutal. - Brutal.
01:02:10 And back then, that was probably
01:02:11 the biggest setback for you.
01:02:13 - Yeah, no, you were, yeah.
01:02:15 - And you pivoted your thought, you recalibrated.
01:02:17 - But let me ask you this, though.
01:02:19 The way I honestly see it, it's kinda like,
01:02:23 okay, life dealt me a hand, and they took every other card,
01:02:28 and the only card I have left is open up,
01:02:33 be really vulnerable, try to help as many people.
01:02:35 And I, my only option is do I play the card or not?
01:02:38 Like, and I remember, so the accident happened
01:02:43 July 25th, 2021, and so July 25th, 2021,
01:02:49 2022 was coming up, and like,
01:02:51 I want to do something on the anniversary.
01:02:54 And so I decided to do a speaking gig.
01:02:57 Like, I'm just gonna talk and just tell people thank you
01:02:59 and how I feel.
01:03:00 And I did it, and I just like,
01:03:04 I felt so close to my family,
01:03:07 and I felt like they were alive, kinda.
01:03:10 Like, I'm showing pictures of 'em,
01:03:11 I'm talking about 'em, people are crying.
01:03:14 And I'm like, hey, like, I loved it, dude.
01:03:17 I just loved it.
01:03:18 And then people started hitting me up,
01:03:21 like, hey, can you come speak to, I'm like, yeah.
01:03:24 And I never said no, I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:03:26 And it's just kinda grown into this thing, but,
01:03:28 and I love the compliments, I really do.
01:03:30 Like, that's awesome, I'm glad you think I'm cool.
01:03:33 But dude, like, from my perspective,
01:03:35 I don't have another option.
01:03:37 Well, I have one other option,
01:03:39 and it's a bullet in the head, and it's not good.
01:03:40 - That's not another option.
01:03:41 - But like, other than that, like, it's,
01:03:44 dude, there's a Robert Frost quote I love.
01:03:47 You know anything about Robert Frost?
01:03:48 - Just the basics?
01:03:49 - Dude, this guy, dude, he lost his dad when he was little.
01:03:53 Had a bunch of kids, he lost like four kids.
01:03:56 Brutal life, dude.
01:03:58 And Robert Frost has some,
01:03:59 hell, he's got some hell of quotes, dude.
01:04:03 Like, some bangers, bro.
01:04:04 And one quote he said--
01:04:06 - I love that you're a quote guy.
01:04:07 - Dude, I love quotes.
01:04:08 One of my favorite quotes, so just think about that,
01:04:10 that's his background.
01:04:12 Lost his dad, multiple kids, to illness, to depression,
01:04:16 to suit, like, all these things.
01:04:18 And he writes, he says, "The only way out is through."
01:04:21 It's your only way out, you can't run from it.
01:04:24 You can't run from the pain, you can't,
01:04:26 don't run with excuses and what shoulda, coulda, woulda,
01:04:29 like, no, face the music.
01:04:32 And dude, trauma sucks, it's awful, but it is a gift.
01:04:37 And one thing I've learned is if you run from trauma,
01:04:42 you run from the gift of it.
01:04:44 You're only gonna experience the terrible parts of trauma.
01:04:47 If you smile back and you face it,
01:04:51 dude, there's some good parts of it, man.
01:04:53 Like, being on your cool podcast today,
01:04:55 this is a good example of it.
01:04:56 If I kept running, this never woulda happened.
01:04:59 And I honestly think the car accident
01:05:02 with my family's meaningless.
01:05:04 I think life in general is pointless, it's meaningless.
01:05:08 It has no meaning.
01:05:10 It's up to you to give it meaning.
01:05:12 It's up to you.
01:05:13 Like, you have to get off your ass,
01:05:15 figure out what you want to achieve,
01:05:17 sacrifice to achieve that thing, and give your life meaning.
01:05:22 Car accident with my family,
01:05:23 if I woulda just packed it in and became an alcoholic
01:05:26 and never left my house, which I was really close to doing,
01:05:28 the car accident woulda been for nothing.
01:05:31 Would have improved no one's life with it.
01:05:33 - It's true. - It woulda been gone.
01:05:36 And I think wherever you're, if you're listening to this,
01:05:38 wherever you're at in your life,
01:05:40 that's how you have to view it, dude.
01:05:41 Like, you have an opportunity,
01:05:43 as shitty and as bad as it is, it's an opportunity, man.
01:05:47 - I would say that you've obviously clearly found hope
01:05:53 and strength after such a devastating loss.
01:05:57 It's clear, like, you're still dealing with it,
01:06:00 but what do you lean on now?
01:06:03 I mean, you still have to get frustrated.
01:06:06 There's still little things that bother you.
01:06:07 Quickly, you probably recalibrate and say,
01:06:09 it doesn't matter anymore.
01:06:10 To your point, stoicism.
01:06:11 But how do you continue to find that hope and strength
01:06:15 on a daily basis?
01:06:16 - My son, Blue, helping other people.
01:06:21 And then, like, dude, stoicism's helped me understand
01:06:26 most things in your life are indifferent.
01:06:31 Like, depending on the perspective you have,
01:06:33 it could be good or bad.
01:06:35 Even death, like, death is indifferent.
01:06:39 Sometimes death is good.
01:06:40 Like, the old man struggling with cancer on his deathbed,
01:06:43 his wife's been gone, like, he needs to go.
01:06:47 - Sure.
01:06:48 - Sometimes death is good.
01:06:50 Sometimes pain is good.
01:06:51 Like, most things in your life are indifferent.
01:06:55 And figuring out what's not indifferent,
01:06:59 meaning figuring out what's good and bad,
01:07:02 is really, really important.
01:07:03 And stoicism has taught me
01:07:04 there's four main things in your life, no matter what,
01:07:09 any date in human history, 2,000 years ago,
01:07:13 2,000 years from now, wherever we land,
01:07:15 no matter what, these four things are good.
01:07:19 No matter what, they're good.
01:07:22 And I reiterate that a lot,
01:07:24 because we live in a world where things change all the time,
01:07:26 even with religion, like, things change all the time.
01:07:28 No, like, these four things.
01:07:31 And with stoicism, they say it's knowledge,
01:07:35 that's, it's always good to obtain knowledge,
01:07:37 justice, balance in all things, like,
01:07:43 you know, you can, not too far to the left,
01:07:46 not too far to the right.
01:07:48 And, like, justice, I think,
01:07:51 and courage is the other one,
01:07:55 I don't know if I named all four, courage is the other one.
01:07:57 Justice is my favorite.
01:07:59 And most people, when they think of justice,
01:08:02 they think of the murderer in the movie that got away,
01:08:05 and then you catch him, and you bring him to justice,
01:08:07 like, we got him.
01:08:08 That's totally true, that's part of it.
01:08:10 But these early Stoics, like Marcus Aurelius,
01:08:13 what they've taught me is justice is,
01:08:16 you've experienced something, something's happened to you,
01:08:19 or you've obtained knowledge, like, you know something,
01:08:23 and you choose not to tell it,
01:08:26 you choose not to talk about it,
01:08:28 you choose not to help other people with it,
01:08:30 that's injustice.
01:08:32 It is not okay for you to do that.
01:08:34 You need to share what you know.
01:08:36 And that's helped me with the 10/90 thing,
01:08:41 and the business side, and the podcasting,
01:08:42 is like, hey, I'm doing the world an injustice, actually,
01:08:47 if I don't say anything.
01:08:49 And, like, it's the opposite of my therapist.
01:08:51 My therapist told me I have an opportunity to help people.
01:08:53 Marcus Aurelius is saying, like, yeah.
01:08:55 Like, if you choose not to do it,
01:08:56 you are actually screwing up.
01:08:59 That's injustice.
01:08:59 So that's kind of how do I keep going.
01:09:02 I don't have another, what other option do I have?
01:09:06 That's my only option, Jeff.
01:09:07 I don't have another option.
01:09:09 It's all I got.
01:09:10 It's injustice if I don't keep going.
01:09:12 - Well, I love that.
01:09:13 - Yeah.
01:09:14 - And obviously, we all want to support you in this mission,
01:09:18 and this vision, and this business,
01:09:20 even though you haven't yet figured out exactly what it is,
01:09:23 it is, it's you, it's your message.
01:09:25 And for those listening, obviously, share,
01:09:28 let them know how they can not only listen to your podcast,
01:09:30 but follow you.
01:09:31 - Yeah, so we, so our podcast is on all the major,
01:09:35 like Spotify, Apple podcast.
01:09:37 It's the number 10, you spell out 90, the 1090.
01:09:41 And then our Instagram is the 1090 rule.
01:09:45 Dude, you know, you probably know this.
01:09:47 - I do.
01:09:48 - When you're trying to, like, pick a name,
01:09:50 everything's taken.
01:09:51 - Of course.
01:09:52 - So, like, it gets weird.
01:09:52 - My name's Fenster Jeff.
01:09:54 - Yeah, like, it gets, like--
01:09:55 - 'Cause there's some other Jeff Fenster.
01:09:56 - 'Cause we wanted it to be 1090,
01:09:57 but then, like, I looked it up, and it's, like, a math guy.
01:10:00 He does, like, math stuff.
01:10:01 So I'm like, well, anyway, so our Instagram is 1090 rule.
01:10:06 Podcast is just the 1090.
01:10:09 You'll see our logo on there, but, dude,
01:10:12 our podcast is pretty heavy, pretty sad.
01:10:14 We got some sad stories on there.
01:10:15 So if you like sad stories,
01:10:17 you might like the 1090 podcast, but--
01:10:19 - I mean, it's sad, but it's also inspiring.
01:10:22 - Yeah, I guess it depends how you look at it.
01:10:23 - It's, I mean, obviously, in preparation,
01:10:25 I listened to a few episodes,
01:10:27 and I'm gonna be listening more now
01:10:28 that I'm a huge fan of you and the show
01:10:30 and what you guys are spreading.
01:10:32 It is sad.
01:10:33 - Yeah.
01:10:34 - I mean, of course it's sad,
01:10:36 but through sadness is where you kind of,
01:10:38 I mean, like, we kind of mentioned pre-show,
01:10:40 diamonds aren't made on a beach, right?
01:10:44 They're made under extreme pressure and extreme darkness,
01:10:48 and that's the message you're spreading.
01:10:49 So I wanna thank you so much for coming on today, man.
01:10:52 - Yeah, man, it's awesome.
01:10:52 - To make a friend with you.
01:10:54 - Sorry I rambled there for a while, but you know.
01:10:56 - Dude, I'm gonna lean on a lot of this myself.
01:10:58 I'm not kidding.
01:10:59 I mean, I'm mentally tough on my own stuff,
01:11:02 but emotionally, probably not as tough as I need to be,
01:11:05 and you're gonna be my course correction for a while.
01:11:08 I won't lie to you.
01:11:09 - That's a lot of pressure, man.
01:11:11 - You did it, though.
01:11:12 I mean, just learning your story.
01:11:14 We had this conversation at dinner last night
01:11:15 where it's like, your story truly changes
01:11:18 the I have to's to I get to's.
01:11:20 - Yeah, dang, that's good.
01:11:21 I need to use that.
01:11:22 - Use it. - That sounded good.
01:11:23 - It's from you.
01:11:24 It just came out that way.
01:11:26 Your story is that.
01:11:28 It's like you take that perspective of,
01:11:30 now I get to do these things that I don't wanna do,
01:11:32 but I get to do it, and you don't always get to.
01:11:37 The day will come where you don't.
01:11:38 - That's true.
01:11:39 - And you never know when that is.
01:11:40 So, dude, thank you so much for coming on, man.
01:11:43 This was awesome.
01:11:44 - Yeah, man, thanks for having me.
01:11:46 - Thank you so much for listening.
01:11:47 If you're looking to level up your relationship
01:11:49 capital gain, then take a minute and text the word Jeff
01:11:52 to 33777 for a free copy of my
01:11:56 Network to Millions playbook.
01:11:58 The link will also be provided in the show notes below.
01:12:01 See you guys next time.
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