In the latest episode of the Greg Bedard Patriots Podcast featuring Nick Cattles, Greg and Nick delve into a comprehensive recap of the Patriots' narrow 10-7 loss to the Giants. The discussion will also cover the decision to bench Mac Jones in the second half, with Bailey Zappe stepping in as his replacement. Additionally, we'll explore the actions and decisions the Kraft family should consider following Sunday's game.
0:00 Teaser: Bill trying to get fired?
1:30 The head coach has no idea what he’s doing
2:45 The offense is one of the worst Greg has ever seen
8:00 Mac starting
8:55 Losing Nick Folk
10:27 Starting QB
18:50 What the Krafts should be doing From Sunday?
19:35 Should Bill be fired?
23:58 Kraft search for HC and GM
26:20 How critical is it to align HC and GM?
29:03 Jerod Mayo potentially being the next Head Coach
31:33 Should Bill O'Brien be back?
33:55 If not Mayo then Mike Vrabel?
36:56 BSJ Member Question: Do you care about compensation for Bill?
Check Greg's Coverage out over at www.bostonsportsjournal.com, for $50 on BSJ's annual plan. Not only do you get top-notch analysis of all the Boston pro sports, but if you're a Patriots junkie — and if you're listening to this podcast, you are — then a membership at BSJ gives you access to a ton of video analysis Bedard does on the coaches film, and direct access to him in weekly chats.
This episode of the Greg Bedard Patriots Podcast w/ Nick Cattles is brought to you by:
Fanduel Sportsbook, the exclusive wagering parter of the CLNS Media NetworkRight now, NEW customers get ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY DOLLARS in BONUS BETS with any winning FIVE DOLLAR MONEYLINE BET! So, visit https://FanDuel.com/BOSTON and kick off the NFL season. FanDuel, Official Partner of the NFL. 21+ and present in MA. Hope is here. First online real money wager only. $5 pregame moneyline wager required. First online real money wager only. $10 first deposit required. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable bonus bets that expire 7 days after receipt. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. GamblingHelpLineMa.org or call (800)-327-5050 for 24/7 support. Play it smart from the start! GameSenseMA.com or call 1-800-GAM-1234.
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Visit https://factormeals.com/BEDARD50 to get 50% off your first box! Factor is America’s #1 Ready-To-Eat Meal Kit, can help you fuel up fast with ready-to-eat meals delivered straight to your door.
0:00 Teaser: Bill trying to get fired?
1:30 The head coach has no idea what he’s doing
2:45 The offense is one of the worst Greg has ever seen
8:00 Mac starting
8:55 Losing Nick Folk
10:27 Starting QB
18:50 What the Krafts should be doing From Sunday?
19:35 Should Bill be fired?
23:58 Kraft search for HC and GM
26:20 How critical is it to align HC and GM?
29:03 Jerod Mayo potentially being the next Head Coach
31:33 Should Bill O'Brien be back?
33:55 If not Mayo then Mike Vrabel?
36:56 BSJ Member Question: Do you care about compensation for Bill?
Check Greg's Coverage out over at www.bostonsportsjournal.com, for $50 on BSJ's annual plan. Not only do you get top-notch analysis of all the Boston pro sports, but if you're a Patriots junkie — and if you're listening to this podcast, you are — then a membership at BSJ gives you access to a ton of video analysis Bedard does on the coaches film, and direct access to him in weekly chats.
This episode of the Greg Bedard Patriots Podcast w/ Nick Cattles is brought to you by:
Fanduel Sportsbook, the exclusive wagering parter of the CLNS Media NetworkRight now, NEW customers get ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY DOLLARS in BONUS BETS with any winning FIVE DOLLAR MONEYLINE BET! So, visit https://FanDuel.com/BOSTON and kick off the NFL season. FanDuel, Official Partner of the NFL. 21+ and present in MA. Hope is here. First online real money wager only. $5 pregame moneyline wager required. First online real money wager only. $10 first deposit required. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable bonus bets that expire 7 days after receipt. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. GamblingHelpLineMa.org or call (800)-327-5050 for 24/7 support. Play it smart from the start! GameSenseMA.com or call 1-800-GAM-1234.
ODDS-R! Ever wished you could navigate the betting field with the confidence of a pro? Enter OddsR. They're not a sportsbook, but they're the sports betting advisor you've always needed. It's like having a playbook for smarter bets right in your pocket. Go get it at https://oddsr.com/BEDARD
Visit https://factormeals.com/BEDARD50 to get 50% off your first box! Factor is America’s #1 Ready-To-Eat Meal Kit, can help you fuel up fast with ready-to-eat meals delivered straight to your door.
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SportsTranscript
00:00 But if Bill runs Mac Jones out there again,
00:03 I'm gonna leave open the possibility
00:06 that Belichick's trying to get fired.
00:08 Trying to get maybe available
00:11 when the Panthers have an opening,
00:13 the Raiders have an opening, who knows?
00:16 Maybe somebody else will make a move, I don't know.
00:18 This stuff hasn't entered my mind at all.
00:21 I have too much respect for Belichick and the process
00:24 and how he goes about his things, his job and his duties.
00:28 'Cause he's doing the same thing that he's done
00:30 for the 50 years that he's been in the league.
00:33 But if he runs Mac Jones out there,
00:36 in the state that he is,
00:39 the level of belief that his teammates
00:41 don't appear to have in him,
00:43 like I have to leave open the possibility
00:45 that he is trying to put the Crafts in a position
00:49 where they're just like, what is Bill doing?
00:52 Like if he's not gonna make the right decisions,
00:54 then we have to make the right decisions
00:56 for the football team, for Mac Jones.
00:58 I'm just, I don't wanna go there,
01:01 but his decision-making is making me.
01:04 - The Greg Bedard Patriots podcast
01:06 is brought to you by FanDuel,
01:07 the exclusive wagering partner of the CLNS Media Network.
01:11 - He's Greg, I am Nick.
01:12 Thanks for joining us as always.
01:14 The Greg Bedard Patriots podcast with Nick Cattles
01:16 brought to you by our friends at FanDuel,
01:19 episode brought to you by FanDuel,
01:20 the exclusive wagering partner of the CLNS Media Network.
01:22 Right now, new customers get $150 in bonus bets
01:26 with any winning $5 Moneyline bet.
01:30 Greg, let's start with the headlines.
01:32 And I absolutely loved the beginning of your email today
01:36 when I looked at it, when I read,
01:38 I really don't have much to say at this point.
01:41 (laughing)
01:43 - Yeah, Nick, this is sort of where I am
01:47 from watching the team and watching the offensive film.
01:50 And quite frankly, I haven't even gotten
01:52 through the defensive film.
01:53 Not that, I mean, we know what the defensive film's
01:56 gonna be, it's gonna be fine.
01:57 They gave up the one touchdown,
01:58 they gave up a couple of big plays,
01:59 JC Jackson gets burned.
02:01 It's like every game.
02:02 I mean, Patriots film at this point is Groundhog Day.
02:05 But with the offense getting worse,
02:10 every time they go out, I mean, Nick, this is,
02:14 I'm trying to compare it to last year with Matt Patricia.
02:17 And, you know, it's difficult
02:20 'cause there are a lot of the same problems,
02:24 but I will say that I think that this year's film
02:27 is worse at this point.
02:28 I think some of it is the offensive line.
02:33 A lot of it is the receivers and tight ends
02:35 outside of Hunter Henry.
02:37 There are route issues on just about every play.
02:41 There are blocking issues on just about every play.
02:44 The quarterback is making terrible decisions.
02:46 It's just, it's among the worst NFL film I've ever seen.
02:52 This is like Jets level with Zach Wilson type film
02:55 where it's just, they're trying to scrape plays together.
02:58 They're trying to find anything that works,
03:01 anything that gets the quarterback into a rhythm.
03:03 It's not a real offense.
03:04 They aren't building on anything.
03:06 It's, you know, they're running the ball,
03:09 or it's quick teams, or very simple pass patterns,
03:13 two guys out, three guys out, max protect, whatever.
03:16 Just, you could tell Bill O'Brien
03:19 is trying anything and everything
03:21 to get Mac Jones to play better,
03:24 and he just can't do it.
03:25 And at this point, you know,
03:27 not only is Mac Jones broken,
03:29 the offense is completely broken.
03:32 I don't know what to say about it.
03:36 I don't know where even to point the fingers
03:38 to where, like, everyone wants to make it easy, Nick.
03:41 Everyone wants to say, it's the quarterback's problem.
03:43 It's the offensive coordinator's problem.
03:46 I just think it's, I think it's a complete mess
03:48 from top to bottom.
03:50 And I know, I know Billy O'Brien.
03:52 I know he's a good coach.
03:54 At the least, he's an average offensive coordinator.
03:57 He, he got guys like Brian Hoyer and Brock Osweiler
04:02 to play winning football, at least in a crappy division,
04:05 and get to the playoffs and win playoff games.
04:08 He had DeSean Watson,
04:10 had him playing at the height of his powers.
04:13 When, you know, he was the quarterback of the Texans.
04:17 Say what you want about it,
04:18 but I still think that DeSean Watson was a great player.
04:21 And I know that Bill O'Brien knows how to do his job.
04:24 I just think from top to bottom,
04:27 personnel, assistant coaches, everything,
04:30 it's just, it's broken.
04:32 They're trying to find something that works
04:34 and nothing's working.
04:36 - It's really a total indictment on Bill Belichick's
04:39 handling of the offense and the quarterback.
04:41 And this was almost the inevitability
04:44 when you put all the pieces together.
04:46 And Greg, you and I talked about this before the season,
04:49 that this year would really be the litmus test
04:51 of Bill Belichick in what his philosophy
04:55 and his vision of football is compared to 2023
04:58 and what the rest of the league is thinking.
05:00 And what we have is a completely broken system,
05:02 as you mentioned.
05:03 Speaking of Belichick, his performance during the game,
05:07 what did you make of that?
05:08 - I just think that everything he chose to do was wrong.
05:13 Similar to this entire season,
05:15 from his personnel choices before the season,
05:17 to, I mean, it's just like, we can go through the list.
05:22 He plays QB games all week.
05:24 He still goes with Mack Jones,
05:26 even though we all, anybody who knows anything
05:28 about football knows that he left the field broken
05:32 in Indianapolis.
05:33 Okay, maybe you wanted to see whether the bye week
05:36 would clear his head, which we talked about last week,
05:39 and you give him a chance and maybe he practiced well.
05:41 But as soon as he throws the first interception, it's over.
05:44 Just bench him.
05:46 It was the same sort of decisions that he's made.
05:49 He doesn't kick the field goal 54, 55 yards early on
05:55 in the game when you knew points were gonna be at a premium.
05:58 You trade it up for a kicker in the fourth round.
06:01 I'm sorry, kicking a mid-50s field goal is part
06:05 of the job description for an NFL kicker these days.
06:09 I mean, you watch the guy in the Eagles kicker,
06:12 kicks 59 yards in the rain, which was,
06:15 it wasn't raining at MetLife Stadium at the time
06:18 of that field goal attempt.
06:19 The weather hadn't gotten bad yet.
06:21 He doesn't kick it, takes a delay.
06:25 The Eagles decline the penalty.
06:27 I thought the Patriots would then go for the field goal.
06:30 He doesn't do it.
06:31 He doesn't go for fourth and inches.
06:33 He burns a timeout with this whole charade
06:36 of Ezekiel Elliott and Hunter Henry
06:39 and Bailey Zappi going out.
06:41 He doesn't go for the win.
06:43 The kicker that you traded up for misses a chip shot
06:46 field goal to put it in overtime,
06:48 which saved us all another 10 minutes of horrible football.
06:52 I mean, basically anything Bill decides to do
06:57 this entire season, and you could go back to last year,
07:00 none of it works, none of it.
07:02 He would be better off taking the George Costanza approach
07:06 of if your initial instinct is wrong, just do the opposite.
07:11 And what Bill, he should have been Bizarro Belichick.
07:13 He just should have been like,
07:14 "Well, what would I normally do?"
07:15 No, I'm gonna do the opposite.
07:17 And they probably would have won going away in this game,
07:19 but this is where they are,
07:20 where the head coach can't even get anything right.
07:23 - And we hear from Bill O'Brien today with the media.
07:26 Sounds like they're going to handle the quarterback
07:28 situation the same they did last week,
07:30 which is just, it's absolute insanity.
07:33 What are we doing?
07:36 I know a lot of us have asked that question
07:39 on a number of different levels with Belichick,
07:41 with the quarterback, with all of this, just this.
07:43 I called it yesterday on my podcast,
07:45 the Nick Cattle Show, the traveling circus.
07:48 It's going from town to town, put the tent up,
07:50 rip it down, put the tent up, rip it down,
07:52 go to another town.
07:54 It's a circus.
07:55 It's an absolute circus.
07:56 It's bananas.
07:57 And none of it makes any sense from a logical standpoint,
08:00 from a football standpoint, from any standpoint.
08:03 It makes no sense.
08:05 I don't know how you don't pull Mac.
08:06 First of all, I don't know how you start Mac on Sunday.
08:09 Reports are that it was a fairly close competition
08:11 during the week.
08:12 I have no idea how you start Mac to begin with.
08:15 I don't know how you don't pull him
08:18 after that first pick, as you said, Greg.
08:20 Second pick, you could argue, well, you know,
08:23 maybe Belichick wanted Zappi to start the second half clean
08:26 and maybe that was his thought process, but he,
08:29 but, oh, sorry, I just punched the microphone,
08:31 but he benched Mac.
08:34 He benched Mac at the end of the game in Germany.
08:36 So if you feel comfortable enough to bench Mac
08:39 at the end of the game in Germany against the Colts,
08:41 you should feel comfortable enough benching Mac
08:44 towards the end of the first half
08:46 and allowing Zappi to go out there after that second pick.
08:49 None of it makes sense.
08:50 And as far as the kicker goes,
08:52 I hate to do this, but we have to.
08:55 Nick Folk this year, 22 of 23.
08:58 Oh, Nick, he can't kick any field goals past 50 yards.
09:02 Breaking news, last year, between 50 yards and 59 yards,
09:06 Nick Folk was four or five.
09:08 This year, guess what he is?
09:10 50 to 59 yards, he's four for five.
09:12 So is Nick Folk just completely incapable
09:15 of making kicks beyond 50 yards?
09:17 Or was the head coach again being super conservative,
09:20 like we saw on Sunday?
09:22 It's just, it's over and over and over again.
09:26 And honestly, Greg, I know there are some people out there
09:29 that are trying to justify,
09:31 they're trying to reason why Belichick is doing this stuff.
09:34 Some people believe he's tanking on purpose,
09:36 which is to me comical.
09:39 Can we just say what it is?
09:41 This is a guy who has stood by his principles
09:44 and his philosophies,
09:46 and it seems like those have aged out.
09:49 This team is not evolving.
09:51 He has no idea what to do offensively with the staff,
09:55 with the quarterback, with the pieces,
09:56 with the offensive line.
09:58 He's lost a ton of staff the last several years.
10:01 They're just not good.
10:02 Stop trying to justify this mess, everybody,
10:05 for who's doing it.
10:06 Stop trying to talk yourself into this idea
10:08 that Belichick is tanking on purpose to get a top three pick.
10:11 Just call it what it is.
10:13 A spade is a spade.
10:14 This team stinks, and Belichick has not been good.
10:18 Fact, period, end of sentence.
10:21 - Nick, a couple of things on this,
10:23 and we might as well get into it a little bit now.
10:25 You know, I don't believe in the tanking thing,
10:28 but I will say this.
10:31 If Belichick runs Mac Jones out there again,
10:34 and I'm gonna give him the benefit of the doubt,
10:36 like I did last week in terms of Mac getting reps
10:41 and him not making a decision,
10:44 that he was leaving open the possibility
10:46 that just a few days away was enough
10:49 to clear Mac Jones' head
10:50 and maybe get him a little bit reset,
10:52 get him into a better mind space
10:53 as far as playing better football going forward.
10:57 But after all the evidence that there is,
11:01 that there's the Mac Jones that we saw
11:04 lead the field in Germany, getting worse by the throw,
11:09 and then the Mac Jones that we saw
11:12 at MetLife Stadium on Sunday, it's the same player.
11:15 Okay, I think we can all agree on that right now.
11:18 If Bill Belichick continues to run him out,
11:22 and like you said, O'Brien thinks that they're gonna handle
11:24 the quarterback's position the same way
11:26 that they did last week,
11:29 and I believe that they mostly split the reps.
11:32 I know there are reports saying like the players
11:36 knew all week and stuff like that.
11:38 I mean, I asked Hunter Henry point blank on the podium,
11:40 like when did you find out who was starting on Sunday?
11:43 And he said this morning.
11:45 And so I'm gonna take him at his word.
11:48 I mean, I asked him point blank at the podium.
11:50 I don't think he would lie about that.
11:51 He would probably just avoid the question.
11:53 But if Bill runs Mac Jones out there again,
11:58 I'm gonna leave open the possibility
12:00 that Belichick's trying to get fired,
12:02 trying to get maybe available
12:05 when the Panthers have an opening,
12:07 the Raiders have an opening, who knows,
12:09 maybe somebody else will make a move, I don't know.
12:12 This stuff hasn't entered my mind at all.
12:14 I have too much respect for Belichick and the process
12:17 and how he goes about his things, his job and his duties,
12:22 'cause he's doing the same thing that he's done
12:24 for the 50 years that he's been in the league.
12:28 But if he runs Mac Jones out there
12:30 in the state that he is,
12:33 the level of belief that his teammates
12:35 don't appear to have in him,
12:37 like I have to leave open the possibility
12:38 that he is trying to put the Crafts in a position
12:42 where they're just like, what is Bill doing?
12:46 If he's not gonna make the right decisions,
12:48 then we have to make the right decisions
12:49 for the football team, for Mac Jones.
12:51 I'm just, I don't wanna go there,
12:54 but his decision-making is making me.
12:58 Two things on that, number one,
13:00 that would be chicken bleep.
13:02 If after everything that Belichick has said
13:06 and everything he has done
13:07 and everything that he has expected from his players,
13:11 that would be the most chicken shit approach
13:14 by Bill Belichick that you could ever imagine,
13:16 that he is quietly quitting on this football team
13:20 and he's quietly quitting on this organization.
13:23 That'd be brutal.
13:24 Number two, that's just awful for Mac Jones.
13:27 And I'm not defending Mac Jones.
13:30 He should not have started against the Giants.
13:31 He should be benched.
13:32 He's broken, yada, yada.
13:33 We've talked about it a billion times.
13:35 Don't @ me.
13:37 Follow me though, @NCRAdio.
13:38 It would just be completely unfair to the young man
13:43 because you see that he's broken.
13:45 He should not be out there.
13:46 And if you're throwing out Mac Jones
13:48 as the sacrificial lamb to get yourself fired, you suck.
13:53 Like, I'm sorry, you suck at what you're doing.
13:57 I'm not telling you as a person you're terrible.
13:59 I'm just saying that the job that you're doing,
14:01 if that's the road that we go down,
14:04 if you're throwing Mac Jones to the Lions
14:08 so you can lose games and so you could look better
14:11 or you could get fired, that's a joke
14:15 because you're further ruining that young man's career
14:19 and giving him less of a chance at continuing his career
14:22 off of selfish needs and desires.
14:25 And that would be ridiculous.
14:28 The quarterback communication thing, Greg, I would say,
14:32 because you mentioned you asked Hunter Henry.
14:34 This was my best guess on my podcast yesterday.
14:37 And again, Greg and I,
14:38 I think all of us are at this point now.
14:40 We are trying to make sense out of a senseless abomination.
14:46 We're throwing darts, folks,
14:49 because there's no clear logic behind much of this.
14:52 Of what's happening in Foxborough.
14:54 We're at the point we're throwing darts.
14:57 I do wonder if it's just a case of gray area.
15:00 And what I mean by that is the lack of communication.
15:02 And maybe Hunter Henry wasn't told straight up clearly
15:05 that Mac was gonna be the guy.
15:07 And maybe that announcement officially wasn't made
15:10 until Sunday morning.
15:12 And maybe the other players on the team,
15:13 some of the other guys, 'cause I know Raimondre and Zeke
15:16 told Mark Daniels of MassLive
15:18 that they knew Mac was gonna start all week long.
15:21 I just have to wonder, Greg, if they surmise that.
15:23 Because Mac actually led the rotations.
15:27 And they took it as, well yeah, Zappy's getting more reps.
15:31 But Mac is still kind of leading.
15:34 And he's the first guy with the ones.
15:35 So until that switches,
15:38 we're not gonna have a quarterback change.
15:41 - Yeah, I agree with you on that.
15:42 I think we're in the gray areas.
15:45 But I'll also say this.
15:47 From checking around with the team.
15:49 And I think I might have asked a few questions
15:52 about this in the press conferences.
15:54 But look, Nick, I don't know if you agree with me.
15:57 But where they are,
15:58 especially at the quarterback position,
16:00 you would expect, and we've heard periodically,
16:04 sporadically over the years about Bill Belichick
16:06 and the captains and leadership meetings
16:08 and things like that.
16:09 I don't know when that goes on, how often it goes on.
16:13 But you would think, okay,
16:15 if you were a normal NFL head coach
16:18 and you had a normal NFL locker room
16:21 and a normal NFL hierarchy,
16:23 that the head coach, if there was any doubts
16:27 about what to do with the quarterback position,
16:29 about who was following who,
16:31 are 80% of the players out on Mac,
16:33 don't you think the head coach would go privately
16:37 at least to say David Andrews, Hunter Henry,
16:42 maybe even Zeke, who knows,
16:45 maybe even Trent Brown or Michael Winnie,
16:47 that he would go to these guys,
16:49 at least let's say David Andrews and Hunter Henry,
16:52 the two offensive captains, besides Mac Jones,
16:55 and just say, what do you think?
16:58 Where do you think the guys are?
16:59 Where's your belief in Mac?
17:01 What do you think I should do?
17:03 You're a veteran, you've played a lot of games.
17:05 What do you think?
17:06 Normally you would think that would go on.
17:09 That is not going on with this team.
17:11 And I find that absolutely ridiculous,
17:14 that Bill Belichick is just descending more and more
17:18 to his foxhole, his foxhole of one, it's my decisions.
17:23 I mean, we heard Bill O'Brien today talk about,
17:25 I think Karen Griegan asked him about like,
17:27 as offensive coordinator, do you have the power
17:30 to basically be like, Bill, we're sitting Mac this week?
17:33 And he basically said no, that it's,
17:36 the hierarchy is Robert Kraft, Bill Belichick,
17:40 and then the assistants are basically pissants.
17:43 And they really don't have any input.
17:45 I mean, what kind of show are you running here?
17:47 How do you not ask David Andrews and Hunter Henry,
17:50 maybe, hey, I just want your two cents.
17:53 I'm not saying you do what they say,
17:54 but get their feedback.
17:56 You know, where are we going as a team?
17:58 Where's the level of belief?
17:59 That's not going on.
18:01 Bill is just doing this his way for whatever motivations,
18:05 and it's not helping the team at all.
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18:41 (upbeat music)
18:43 - All right, Greg, we just did a little bit of that autopsy,
18:51 so let's now move forward.
18:52 Let's move forward after that awful Giants game on Sunday.
18:56 You've seen a lot in this league.
18:58 You've covered multiple teams.
18:59 You've done national work.
19:01 You've seen a lot of different rebuilds.
19:02 You've seen teams collapse.
19:04 You've seen it all.
19:06 And I know you wrote a piece over the weekend,
19:08 and I read it from beginning to end.
19:11 About Kraft and kind of the plan moving forward,
19:14 and what the Patriots should do now
19:17 as they look at this situation.
19:18 And I wanna go question by question here,
19:21 but the first thing I will ask you was not really,
19:22 I don't think it was part of your story,
19:24 but I just want your thoughts on this
19:25 because I actually just did a podcast on this today.
19:29 If you're the Patriots,
19:31 and I know Tony Mazz wrote about this
19:33 in '95, the sports hub as well,
19:35 do you just fire Belichick right now?
19:38 And we've gone through, and what I don't wanna do
19:40 is I don't wanna look at this with sentimental value.
19:44 Because we've talked about Kraft won't fire him
19:46 because of the respect factor, blah, blah, blah.
19:48 Just look at it from a football standpoint.
19:50 Should they just fire Belichick right now
19:54 and get over this leap show that we're witnessing?
19:58 - So setting aside the respect factor,
20:04 which you alluded to,
20:06 as far as what I am seeing on the field,
20:10 should the coach be fired
20:12 and based off my history covering the league?
20:14 No, he should not.
20:16 They're still playing very hard.
20:18 The defense is playing well.
20:20 The punt team had a good game against the Giants on Sunday.
20:24 The offense is just completely broken
20:29 at this point from head to toe.
20:32 They can't, they don't know what direction they're going.
20:37 So just to answer that question,
20:40 I would not fire Belichick
20:43 just based on what I am seeing on the field.
20:46 - All right, next question.
20:47 Whether now or later, Greg,
20:49 we all pretty much believe at this point that Bill's gone.
20:52 Who should Kraft start talking to right now?
20:55 The phone calls he should be making right now?
20:58 - He should if he hasn't already.
21:01 And maybe you sit back and let things play out
21:04 because you never know.
21:05 They could have won their last seven games of the season
21:07 and finished nine and eight on an upswing.
21:10 But I think by now,
21:12 they are now assured of their third losing season
21:14 in four years.
21:16 They will finish with a losing record.
21:18 They have nine losses now.
21:19 It's set that this team is, now it's just a matter of,
21:24 is it two wins?
21:24 Is it three, four, five wins or whatever?
21:27 The Krafts should be on the phone
21:30 or actually just visiting, having coffee, what have you,
21:35 considering some of them are back in the area
21:38 at this point.
21:39 But anybody who has worked for the Patriots,
21:42 especially that were here during the heyday of the Patriots
21:45 and the heyday of Belichick,
21:47 they should be talking to these people.
21:49 They should be asking them the tough questions.
21:51 They should be in, let's just say,
21:53 Josh McDaniels is back in the area.
21:56 He's right here.
21:57 He was here from the, basically all,
22:00 I think all the Super Bowl titles,
22:03 if I'm not mistaken, I think that's correct.
22:05 But he's seen a lot.
22:07 He's been a head coach twice.
22:09 He understands his limitations.
22:11 He understands he's worked,
22:14 he's been the offensive coordinator for Bill.
22:16 He understands better than anybody
22:18 the issues with the team, the blind spots,
22:21 things like that.
22:22 Josh McDaniels, John Robinson, who was fired in Tennessee,
22:26 Thomas Dimitrov, who was a general manager on his own.
22:31 I don't know if I would go back to Scott Pioli.
22:34 That's a guy who's pretty loyal to Belichick,
22:37 but maybe you check in with him.
22:38 But basically you go on a fact-finding mission
22:40 to guys that know the building,
22:42 who still talk to people in the building.
22:45 Bob Quinn, who was fired in Detroit.
22:48 Kevin Anderson, who was with Patricia in Detroit,
22:52 stayed on there as sort of the Bears Nigerian.
22:54 There's a bunch of guys out there
22:56 aren't working right now who used to work with the Patriots.
22:59 You go to them and you ask them all the hard questions.
23:03 Where are we coming up short?
23:04 Why do you think things have fallen here?
23:06 What would you do?
23:08 How would you align things?
23:10 What do you think of the coaching candidates
23:12 that are out there?
23:13 Any coaching candidates that we should be thinking of?
23:16 What's the role in personnel?
23:18 Who should be running personnel?
23:20 What kind of offensive systems should we be running?
23:23 What do you think of Gerard Mayo as a head coach?
23:26 What do you think of all these?
23:27 They should be going on a fact-finding mission right now
23:30 so that they arm themselves with the,
23:32 get objective views on like, where is this program?
23:37 They're not football experts.
23:39 They leave that up to Belichick.
23:40 They leave that up to their head coaches.
23:42 Go to these guys who have worked in the league,
23:44 who have had a lot of responsibility,
23:46 and ask them where this franchise has come up short
23:49 and what they think the crafts should do going forward.
23:54 And then sort of that starts your decision-making process
23:57 as we get towards the end of the season.
23:59 As far as the decision-making process
24:01 and vetting all of those people, so to speak,
24:04 once you get to the point
24:05 where you're gonna move on from Belichick,
24:07 how wide of a net are you casting if you're the crafts
24:10 for both positions, for the head coach position
24:13 and the GM position?
24:14 Huge.
24:15 They're the New England Patriots.
24:18 Six Super Bowl titles, the banners are up there.
24:21 Say what you want about the crafts or what have you,
24:24 this is viewed as a crown jewel franchise in the NFL.
24:29 It's a plum job.
24:30 I mean, do people wanna follow Bill Belichick?
24:33 No, probably not.
24:34 But still, there should be enough of an opportunity.
24:37 They should be talking to,
24:39 once they talk to these people, compile a list.
24:42 Who are the top five GM candidates?
24:44 Who are the top five head coaching candidates in the league?
24:48 And they should immediately move
24:49 to talk to all of those people
24:51 and asking them the same question.
24:53 When you get to this point,
24:54 when you are looking for a new coach,
24:56 general manager, what have you,
24:58 this is a chance to gain a valuable insight
25:04 on your franchise and where it is,
25:07 where the NFL is going.
25:09 They should be asking all of these people
25:12 where they have come up short.
25:13 Where is the NFL going?
25:15 How much offense?
25:16 How much defense?
25:17 Where do you think this league's gonna be in 10 years?
25:20 Who are the people that can get us there?
25:22 Who can be forward thinking?
25:24 Things like that.
25:24 I don't care what you promise Gerard Mayo.
25:28 You cannot conduct this thing.
25:31 This is the whole future of the franchise.
25:33 You can't conduct it like Bill Belichick
25:36 looking for an offensive coordinator
25:38 and an offensive line coach
25:39 when you basically don't bring in anybody else.
25:42 That Bill O'Brien is the only offensive coordinator.
25:44 Adrian Clem's the only offensive line coach.
25:47 That's part of the reason
25:48 why this has been run into the ground.
25:51 That Bill doesn't look outside.
25:52 He doesn't entertain new options.
25:54 The crafts have to go into this with a blank slate.
25:57 Maybe they still arrive at Gerard Mayo.
25:59 That could very well be the case.
26:01 But at the least, you need to go out
26:03 and you need to find out what else is going on in the league
26:06 because things have been done here the same way for so long
26:09 and they're in the stone ages in a lot of ways.
26:11 Cap management, personnel, offense.
26:15 Where is all of this going in the NFL?
26:17 And you need to find out from these people.
26:19 - All right, so you've done the vetting.
26:20 You've casted the wide net.
26:22 How critical is it for the Patriots
26:25 to align the two positions?
26:27 Once you make a decision on one of them,
26:29 how critical is it to make sure these guys
26:32 or guy and woman in front office that they're aligned
26:36 and they have the same vision
26:38 and they're walking into this thing
26:39 as a happy union, so to speak?
26:42 - Huge.
26:43 To me, this is the number one reason
26:45 why franchises fail in this league.
26:48 That owners either fall in love with a coach
26:52 and then hire a GM that's maybe a rising star
26:55 and they do these shotgun manages.
26:57 It goes down in flames almost all the time.
26:59 I mean, look at Vrabel in Tennessee.
27:02 He was aligned with John Robinson.
27:03 There was some issues.
27:05 They both sort of saw things the same way.
27:07 They fired John Robinson
27:10 and now they bring in Ran Carthon from the 49ers.
27:13 And look, Ran's a great guy, okay?
27:15 Everybody loves Ran in the league.
27:17 He was certainly a top candidate.
27:20 But he and Vrabel have no background.
27:23 They haven't worked together.
27:25 They didn't come up the same way.
27:26 They don't see things the same way.
27:29 And that can lead to issues.
27:30 Look at anything with the Jets.
27:32 John Idzik when he was there with who the hell knows
27:35 who the head coaches were back then with the Jets.
27:39 All of these terrible matchups,
27:42 marriages between head coaches and GMs,
27:44 they fail because these people don't have a background.
27:46 And I thought the Patriots got it right where
27:49 with Belichick is that you need to pick one of two ways
27:54 if you're going forward as a franchise.
27:56 You either need the strong head coach
27:59 and he vets the GM, the personnel guys,
28:03 the guys that are gonna do that,
28:05 that he picks a guy that he finds that he's aligned with,
28:07 you link them up together, okay?
28:10 Or you pick the strong GM,
28:12 like say Howie Roseman in Philadelphia
28:16 where he's in charge of picking the players.
28:19 He hires the head coach along with the owner Jeffrey Lurie.
28:23 It's one of two ways.
28:24 Like you can, it's gotta be the strong GM
28:29 or the strong head coach.
28:30 And so far they've been a strong head coach.
28:33 Is that the right thing to do?
28:34 I don't know, but you need to go out
28:36 and you need to talk to say Adam Peters
28:38 who is second in command and personnel with the 49ers
28:41 who used to be here, who is a rising star,
28:43 who's ready to run his own department
28:45 and see what he has to say.
28:46 You know, if you interview all these guys,
28:49 head coaches and GMs,
28:51 whoever you think is the best person,
28:53 whether that's a GM or a head coach,
28:56 you say that's the guy that we want to run our organization.
29:00 You hire them and then you empower them
29:03 to hire the head coach.
29:04 All right, let's say that the GM's hired,
29:06 the head coach is hired and that head coach is Gerard Mayo.
29:08 How much concern should there be about Mayo's
29:11 assumed limited rolodex
29:13 since he's really only been in New England
29:15 through his NFL career?
29:16 It's huge.
29:17 It's something that I've heard talking to NFL people
29:20 around the Patriots, around the league about like,
29:22 you know, I've been talking to people about what's next
29:24 because that's everything with the Patriots right now.
29:27 Is it Mayo?
29:28 Is it somebody else?
29:29 You know, I need to do more research
29:32 on sort of the positive aspects of Mayo,
29:36 some of his prior interviews and things like that.
29:38 I have more work to do there.
29:40 But one thing I have heard from a lot of people,
29:42 and these are mostly people that are connected
29:45 to the Patriots in some way, either now or in the past,
29:50 if it's him and they almost universally think
29:53 it's gonna be Gerard Mayo, they're all like,
29:55 well, what's his coaching staff gonna look like?
29:58 I mean, he was only a player with the Patriots.
30:00 He's only been a coach with the Patriots.
30:02 Is he going to keep everybody?
30:04 Is he going to keep everything in place
30:06 and we're just swapping out Bill Belichick for Gerard Mayo?
30:11 I don't know how many people would sign up for that.
30:13 I mean, a lot of people are concerned
30:17 and the crafts need to go to Mayo and be like,
30:19 okay, if you're the guy, what's your vision for this team?
30:23 What are we gonna run with offense?
30:25 I assume it's gonna be Billy O'Brien, but I don't know.
30:27 Maybe he has other options or other visions
30:32 as far as I wanna run a Kyle Shanahan scheme.
30:34 Okay, fine, you hire one of those guys.
30:36 What happens if that guy gets a head coaching job?
30:38 Now what are you gonna do?
30:39 Like, you know, what's your plan for everything?
30:40 But a lot of people are fearful that Gerard Mayo
30:44 doesn't know anybody in the league and that's rough.
30:49 So they are expecting, his agent is Sean Kiernan.
30:53 He's a well-respected veteran agent,
30:55 has a lot of coaches, GMs, things like that.
30:58 Rand Carthon is one of the guys he has.
30:59 Brian Flores, I think, is one of the guys he has.
31:02 He also works for Athletes First,
31:05 which is one of the largest agencies in the NFL.
31:07 They rep a lot of coaches and front office people.
31:10 And so I think that Gerard Mayo,
31:14 probably in the last month of it,
31:15 looks like he needs to start getting his ducks in a row
31:17 as well, talking to people as far as, you know,
31:20 will you come on my staff?
31:22 Who should I talk to?
31:23 All of those things, because you can't just come back
31:26 with the same coaching staff.
31:28 You have to have ideas about how to improve things
31:33 or else what's the point?
31:34 - So you said Bill O'Brien might be the guy
31:38 to be the OC for Mayo.
31:40 Should O'Brien be back after what we've witnessed this year?
31:43 - I wanna say yes, Nick.
31:48 I have a lot of respect for Billy O'Brien.
31:50 I think he's really good.
31:51 I think, I'll just say, they need to figure out,
31:56 they need to get to the bottom line.
31:57 And this comes from talking to people like, you know,
32:00 Joshua Daniels or Mick Lombardi or, you know, whoever,
32:03 whoever's been here.
32:07 You need to find out, you need to dial in.
32:09 Before you can move forward, you need to find out
32:12 how did we get here?
32:13 What were the problems?
32:15 What were the missteps?
32:16 How do we correct them?
32:18 And I think I have a feeling that most of the people
32:22 would be like, Billy knows what he's doing.
32:24 Like you just have to empower him.
32:27 Let him go out and he picks the coaches.
32:30 Whoever's running under, whoever's going under him,
32:33 like Billy O'Brien gets to do it.
32:35 I mean, if he wants Mike Devlin, who is his line coach
32:38 with the Texans, who I think is assistant offensive line coach
32:41 with the Jets now, I don't know, I haven't keep him track.
32:44 But if Billy O'Brien wants him to run his offensive line
32:48 because they know how to work together,
32:50 they know, you know, without, Billy doesn't need to tell him
32:52 every single thing, then let him go hire that.
32:55 Don't bring in Adrian Clem, you know,
32:58 who, you know, I haven't heard great reviews about.
33:01 And so, I don't know.
33:04 I mean, I think the Crafts want Billy O'Brien here.
33:07 I think they see a marriage of Gerard Mayo and Billy O'Brien.
33:10 And you can make the case that that makes a lot of sense
33:13 because I don't think O'Brien is going anywhere anytime soon
33:17 and would like to stay put.
33:18 And that helps Mayo.
33:20 And then Mayo needs to tell him, well,
33:21 you need to hire a real quarterbacks coach, not
33:23 Evan Rothstein.
33:24 A real quarterbacks coach who can actually
33:27 coach the quarterback, has played the position,
33:30 has coached the position, and that you
33:32 can train in case you leave for a head coaching
33:34 job at some point, just like Josh McDaniel succeeded
33:37 Charlie Weiss, that whole thing.
33:39 They need to get back into that the whole thing.
33:41 But if it's Billy O'Brien, and I think, you know,
33:45 probably he should stay, it probably
33:47 is the best alignment for the Patriots if it's Gerard Mayo.
33:50 But please, let him hire his own offensive coaching staff.
33:54 Evan Rothstein catching strays from Bidar today.
33:57 All right, so if it's not Mayo, but the Patriots
34:01 like the idea of a former Patriot.
34:04 They like the idea of a defensive mind being the guy.
34:07 You wrote about Mike Vrabel over the last few days.
34:10 Very interesting stuff from you on Vrabel.
34:14 Two-part question.
34:14 I know we hate two-part questions,
34:16 but it is what it is.
34:17 We're getting shorter on time here.
34:18 A, should the Patriots approach Vrabel?
34:20 B, how high on the list would he be?
34:24 From what I understand, and the genesis of this
34:27 is I'm talking to a bunch of players, people,
34:30 like I said, about the future of the Patriots.
34:33 What's next?
34:33 What are their options in trying to uncover everything
34:37 that I can?
34:38 And one of the questions I have asked
34:40 is, do you think Vrabel's an option for the Patriots?
34:44 And nearly universally, the response I got was, yes.
34:50 Now, do I think it's a great chance that he's even
34:55 available?
34:56 No.
34:58 I think a lot of people were curious about his quote
35:00 at halftime about how he said, enjoy it.
35:04 It's not like this everywhere.
35:06 This is how this is a special place, things like that.
35:08 We all saw Kraft and Vrabel in the owner's box
35:11 talking during the first half of that game.
35:14 Who knows what they were talking about?
35:17 I know some people talked with Vrabel when he was here.
35:19 I think there's a sense, the way things
35:23 have gone in Nashville with the Titans, that Vrabel might--
35:28 I'm not saying he definitely is, but I
35:31 think he could be open to listening
35:33 to other possibilities.
35:35 Now, I think the owner loves Vrabel.
35:38 I think part of firing John Robinson was empowering Vrabel,
35:44 pairing him with Rand Carthon.
35:47 Did that necessarily do that?
35:48 I'm not sure.
35:50 After working with Rand for a while,
35:55 does Vrabel like the direction, the pairing with Carthon?
35:59 I can't tell you for sure.
36:00 I know there's some scuttlebutt about how Vrabel's not sure
36:07 if that's the place for him anymore.
36:09 His kids are older.
36:10 He can move if he wants.
36:12 How many times is the Patriots head coaching job
36:15 going to become available?
36:16 Is he afraid of following Belichick?
36:18 I think anybody who's ever followed
36:20 Mike Vrabel in his career knows he's not afraid of anything.
36:24 We know how the Crafts feel about Vrabel.
36:29 So I think it's a small chance.
36:32 But if I'm the Crafts, I give a call to the Titans
36:35 and saying, hey, can we talk to Mike just to see.
36:40 I mean, if you're hiring a successor for Bill Belichick,
36:44 you can't afford to leave any bullets in the chamber.
36:47 All right.
36:48 We'll leave the offensive line talk to a later day.
36:51 And I got a point that we can get to maybe hopefully later
36:53 in the week.
36:54 We're short on time.
36:55 You've got to go to Felger and Maz to have fun there.
36:58 So let's jump to it.
36:59 The member question of the day.
37:00 First, I'll tell everybody the episode's
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37:12 You also want to check Greg out, Mike out, and the crew
37:15 over at BSJ, 50 bucks for the year.
37:17 They do fantastic work.
37:19 Again, Boston Sports Journal.
37:21 All right, the BSJ member question of the day, Greg.
37:23 Do you care about compensation for Bill Belichick?
37:28 No, I don't.
37:30 Everybody's getting hung up on this.
37:32 And that the Krafts wouldn't fire Belichick
37:36 because they wouldn't get compensation.
37:38 What do I care at this point?
37:40 Really, are you trying to get the best deal?
37:44 Are you trying to just do what's best for the organization?
37:46 Are they really going to go to battle stations
37:49 with Belichick about compensation?
37:51 And we're holding you to your contract.
37:55 And they're going to go into court
37:56 like he did with the Jets.
37:58 This is just stupid.
38:00 Make a decision.
38:01 Do you want Bill Belichick to be the head coach of your football
38:04 team anymore?
38:05 Yes or no.
38:06 If it's no, move on.
38:08 You go to him and say, hey, Bill,
38:09 this is what we'd like to do.
38:11 Are you amenable to it?
38:12 And if he says yes, then fine.
38:14 Work something out.
38:15 You can all be adults.
38:16 But if he drives a hard line, if he
38:19 feels like he was wrong, that he's spiteful and things
38:22 like that, just get it over with.
38:24 Like, I don't care about a second round pick.
38:26 I don't care about a third round pick.
38:28 How many picks has this organization
38:29 squandered over the years, let alone cheap picks
38:33 that have been taken away?
38:34 Like, who gives a crap at this point?
38:36 If I'm the Krafts, as long as I find a way where
38:39 I don't have to pay him $20 million a year that somebody
38:42 else is going to do it, if he wants
38:44 to exchange $20 million a year for his freedom, fine,
38:47 whatever.
38:47 But I am not getting hung up on compensation
38:50 for Bill Belichick.
38:51 It's either over or it's not.
38:53 And if it's over, move on, get going.
38:56 Let's start a new era of Patriots football.
38:59 I have a lot of thoughts on that.
39:00 We're short on time.
39:01 Greg's got to run.
39:02 If you want my thoughts, the Nick Cattleshell podcast
39:04 I actually did 15 minutes or so on Should They Fire Belichick
39:08 Right Now?
39:09 And the compensation talk is a part of that segment.
39:12 So check it out, Nick Cattleshell.
39:14 Greg's got to run, of course, to do his work
39:17 with Felger and Maz, Yeoman's work with those two gentlemen.
39:21 And also Jay Stu and Jim Murray.
39:23 Can't forget those two guys.
39:25 We'll catch up with all of you later in the week.
39:27 Until then, it's the Greg Medard Patriots podcast
39:29 with Nick Cattleshell.
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