An panel interview about travel as a force for good.
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Afar.com is a digital and print magazine that publishes travel tips, guides, news, and stories: https://www.afar.com
Get updates on the latest articles, travel news, and more from AFAR by signing up for the AFAR newsletter: https://afar.com/newsletters
Follow AFAR on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AfarMedia
Follow AFAR on Twitter: https://twitter.com/afarmedia
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TravelTranscript
00:00:00 [MUSIC PLAYING]
00:00:03 Thank you guys again all for being here.
00:00:12 I'm in rainy London still, and I'm so happy to talk to all of you
00:00:15 again.
00:00:17 Today's theme is close to my heart and many of ours,
00:00:19 travel is a force for good.
00:00:20 I even wore our t-shirt today because we
00:00:23 had these made before COVID-19.
00:00:26 It's always been the mission.
00:00:28 And I'm so excited to have Julia Cosgrove, our VP and editor-in-chief
00:00:31 here, and she'll talk more about that from a Fars point of view.
00:00:34 But first I wanted to talk about the frame of our conversation
00:00:37 before I introduce the rest of our amazing panel.
00:00:40 For the past two years in particular, we've
00:00:43 talked about and heard a lot about over-tourism, sustainability
00:00:46 in the industry, flight shaming, all of this rightfully so.
00:00:50 But we didn't really talk about as much travel as a force for good.
00:00:56 And we had Preferred Hotels CEO on a few weeks ago,
00:00:59 and they frame it as believe in travel, which I love.
00:01:02 The United Nations has three pillars of sustainability--
00:01:05 environmental, like reduce, reuse, recycle;
00:01:07 social, which is like protecting cultural heritage,
00:01:11 like restoring historic buildings and anti-poaching efforts in Africa;
00:01:14 and then economic, economic benefits to local communities, which of course
00:01:17 we all know is hit very hard right now.
00:01:20 Each of these is so important, and there's also our personal, mental,
00:01:24 and emotional benefits that happen when we travel,
00:01:26 which I know all of us are sorely missing right now.
00:01:29 So the group that we have gathered here today,
00:01:32 whether we own a small business or work for a large company,
00:01:35 we all have the power to incite change.
00:01:37 We're going to be talking about that today and what that looks like.
00:01:40 Yesterday, I got on the phone with a friend in Florence.
00:01:43 I learned how a group of top leaders in Florence, including the mayor,
00:01:46 are getting together to figure out ways to combat over-tourism
00:01:49 because they finally have time now.
00:01:50 They didn't have time before.
00:01:52 So these delicate conversations to be had now--
00:01:55 how do we encourage travel when we can while hoping for a cleaner, better
00:01:59 world as a whole?
00:01:59 And how do we also make it good for business?
00:02:01 Because that matters too.
00:02:03 And we're really optimistic at afar.
00:02:05 We actually did a reader survey last week,
00:02:08 and the results were really good about people wanting to travel now.
00:02:11 And Ellen will talk more about that at the end.
00:02:14 So for our panel, if you can just wave hi when I introduce you,
00:02:18 that would be great.
00:02:20 We have Ben Traub, the SVP of Sales and Hotel Marketing
00:02:23 for Four Seasons Hotels and Resorts.
00:02:26 We have--
00:02:27 Good afternoon.
00:02:27 Thank you for having us.
00:02:29 Thank you, Ben.
00:02:30 We have Vanessa Baz, a private travel designer
00:02:33 who's based in London with Baz Around Private Travel.
00:02:37 Thank you for having me.
00:02:39 We have Will Kibbers--
00:02:40 I think I'm saying that right--
00:02:42 VP of Coronet Travel based in St. Louis.
00:02:47 St. Louis, thanks for having me.
00:02:49 We have Terry Dale, the president of USTUA, the United States Tour Operators
00:02:54 Association.
00:02:55 Good to be here.
00:02:57 We have Catherine Carnot.
00:02:59 She's a National Geographic photographer and runs Catherine Carnot Photo
00:03:02 Workshops.
00:03:03 Thank you so much.
00:03:05 And then we have Ellen Azmedeo, our Executive VP and Chief Revenue Officer
00:03:08 for AFAR, and Julia Cosgrove, of course, our VP and Editor-in-Chief.
00:03:14 So Julia, I'd love to open with you and just talk about AFAR's mission
00:03:18 and what it means to you personally and professionally.
00:03:21 Yeah, well, thank you so much, Annie.
00:03:23 And it's a privilege to be here with all of you today--
00:03:27 with all of you today.
00:03:29 Wish we could be closer, but soon enough.
00:03:32 And a special thanks to Annie and Ellen and the AFAR team
00:03:36 for launching these conversations.
00:03:38 I think it's such an important time to connect
00:03:41 with people in our business from all over the world.
00:03:43 So welcome, all of you from all over the world.
00:03:47 At AFAR, we truly believe in the power of travel as a force for good.
00:03:53 And that's been fueled by our strong and unwavering mission
00:03:56 to inspire, guide, and enable people to have deeper, richer, and more
00:04:01 fulfilling experiences.
00:04:02 It's been our mission since day one.
00:04:05 We believe that every traveler is a steward of the world
00:04:09 and that being a good traveler means being a good guest.
00:04:13 Since AFAR launched in 2009, we have been
00:04:16 committed to celebrating our core brand values of curiosity,
00:04:20 open-mindedness, and cultural diversity.
00:04:24 And today, as travel has come to a standstill
00:04:27 and our audience of the world's best travelers is stuck at home,
00:04:31 I think it's more imperative than ever that we continue
00:04:34 to speak to and engage with the global citizens who share our mindset
00:04:38 and believe in the power of travel to transform communities
00:04:41 and individual lives for the better.
00:04:44 Because when we can travel again, they'll
00:04:47 be the first out the front door, the first into the car,
00:04:50 the first into the plane, and the first into the hotel.
00:04:54 As Annie alluded to before this pandemic,
00:04:56 the biggest threat to travel was over tourism.
00:04:59 Too many people going to the same place at the same time
00:05:02 to take the same picture, to share with the same group of people.
00:05:05 I think we can all vaguely remember bragging rights and FOMO,
00:05:10 even though it may feel like a lifetime ago.
00:05:13 I have a suggestion that maybe we don't go back to that reality.
00:05:18 At AFAR, we believe that the beauty of travel
00:05:21 is that it isn't a monoculture, and we want to keep it that way.
00:05:25 So as we begin to slowly tiptoe and emerge from our homes,
00:05:30 I think it's going to be more critical than ever
00:05:32 that we go to places that aren't overrun with people,
00:05:36 that we visit in shoulder seasons or off-peak times of year,
00:05:40 and that we really commit to seeking out untrammeled destinations
00:05:43 and lesser-known sites.
00:05:46 We also believe that by focusing on the right kind of travel,
00:05:50 for us that's purpose-driven, conscientious, and responsible,
00:05:54 we can help educate and inform our readers
00:05:57 about what we can all do to travel smarter
00:06:00 and lessen our footprint along the way.
00:06:04 Before the pandemic, there's been a great deal of talk
00:06:07 around sustainability and travel.
00:06:10 We don't see those two things as mutually exclusive.
00:06:13 When sustainability is done right, it's good for the traveler,
00:06:16 it's good for the travel business.
00:06:18 And again, we think of it in the same three categories
00:06:22 that I'm sure many of you do, environmental, cultural, and economic.
00:06:26 And we know that travel makes individuals more aware
00:06:29 of their place in the world and makes the world more connected.
00:06:33 Travel fosters empathy.
00:06:35 We put out an empathy issue earlier this spring,
00:06:38 which in turn leads to real economic change.
00:06:41 And we know that by supporting local economies built on travel and tourism,
00:06:46 and by valuing experiences over things,
00:06:49 travelers can make a huge impact on local communities and the global economy.
00:06:54 And this approach influences what AFAR covers and how we cover it.
00:06:59 And I think sustainability will be an even more critical part
00:07:02 of the conversation as the world starts to open up again.
00:07:06 I mean, the climate crisis is upon us.
00:07:08 And even the sort of anecdotal positive environmental indications
00:07:13 to come out of this period of lockdown,
00:07:16 we've reported on some of them, the clear Himalayan skies,
00:07:19 South Africa's napping lions, those wandering goats and whales
00:07:23 that made the rounds on social.
00:07:26 They won't be forgotten.
00:07:27 But I think other stories are emerging too of humans
00:07:31 considering their impact and using this crisis
00:07:35 as an opportunity to really make change.
00:07:38 In Milan, where congestion and pollution have plummeted,
00:07:41 city officials are converting 22 miles of streets
00:07:44 into dedicated bicycling spaces.
00:07:47 And Paris just announced a 400-mile network of temporary cycle routes.
00:07:52 Perhaps that'll become more permanent.
00:07:54 Who knows?
00:07:55 The pandemic has revealed a world without travel,
00:07:59 which is scary for all of us in travel.
00:08:02 But I think we're learning a little bit, certainly every day,
00:08:05 about what we'd taken for granted, what we miss the most,
00:08:09 what we long to see again.
00:08:11 We really feel connected to each other, all of us throughout the world
00:08:15 in a way that maybe we never have before.
00:08:18 And so as the world looks toward recovery,
00:08:21 our team will be exploring what travel means now,
00:08:25 but also looking ahead with hope to where travel is heading.
00:08:30 One thing that is here to stay, afar readers,
00:08:33 and I'm sure many of your clients and others,
00:08:37 want travel that reflects their values.
00:08:40 Consumers are increasingly looking for companies to act with purpose
00:08:43 and to be leaders in issues that matter to them.
00:08:47 And the right kind of travel means many things,
00:08:49 but for us, it's based on some core ideas.
00:08:52 Transformative travel, traveling more deeply to experience a place like a local,
00:08:57 pursuing destinations that aren't overcrowded.
00:09:00 I know that means a little bit different than it meant before.
00:09:03 And going off the beaten path in on the beaten path places.
00:09:08 And this is our approach to travel,
00:09:09 and we've been delivering it to audiences for more than a decade.
00:09:13 Our brand voice isn't preachy or earnest,
00:09:16 because we also know that at its core,
00:09:18 travel is about delight and wonder and fun.
00:09:23 Travel is also about making individuals more aware of their place in the world
00:09:28 and making the world more connected.
00:09:30 Bruce Puntip, the CEO of G Adventures,
00:09:33 whom we honored two years ago as part of our travel vanguard,
00:09:37 put it so well at our awards show in New York.
00:09:40 He said, "If done right, travel can be the world's most successful form of wealth redistribution."
00:09:48 The lens that we see the world in is travel as a force for good.
00:09:51 And for us, that means more inclusive, more sustainable,
00:09:55 and more about leaving the world in a better place than we found it.
00:09:59 And I think governments, companies, and individuals,
00:10:03 all of us can help plan for a post-coronavirus future in a more conscious way.
00:10:09 And as travelers, we can do our part with every spending decision we make.
00:10:14 I really believe that we have what I hope is a once-in-a-century opportunity
00:10:22 to build a better travel industry and a better world,
00:10:26 one that values people and the future of our planet,
00:10:30 one that's smarter and more human-centric.
00:10:33 Shannon Stoll, the head of the ATTA and another of our vanguard honoree last year,
00:10:38 was quoted last week or this week in a piece by Forbes,
00:10:42 and he said, "I really hope that companies and professionals
00:10:46 will not try to go back to what we considered normal,
00:10:50 because normal was not very responsible as an overall industry.
00:10:54 The opportunity now is for leaders to lead and do the right thing
00:10:58 by rebuilding smarter, which may mean smaller,
00:11:01 and demand that travelers also behave as though travel is a privilege and not a right."
00:11:07 So I know that was a lot.
00:11:10 I'm going to close and send the mic off to someone else here,
00:11:14 but I really do want to implore all of you on the call today,
00:11:19 like, let's think about ways to embrace a growth mindset
00:11:23 in the midst of the world being turned upside down.
00:11:26 Let's not squander this opportunity to rethink how we view travel.
00:11:31 Let's be more deliberate citizens of the world.
00:11:34 And as members of this important industry that fuels so much good,
00:11:39 let's all be the better travelers who lead the way.
00:11:43 - Thank you, Julia. I'm just going to listen to that over and over again
00:11:46 whenever I'm feeling down about the world.
00:11:48 So thank you. - I tried, man.
00:11:51 We all need a little up right now, so trying to focus on it.
00:11:56 - So what I'd like to do, and kind of just to follow that,
00:11:58 before we get into specifics, and I have so many things I want to ask everyone,
00:12:01 is if I could just ask each panelist for 30 seconds, a minute,
00:12:05 just to kind of tell us what personally your view of travel as a force for good is.
00:12:09 Terry, if I could start with you, because you're at the top on my screen.
00:12:12 - Sure. Well, first, I want to say a huge thank you to Afar,
00:12:17 because we've had a seven-year partnership with you,
00:12:20 and I think the reason it works is because we have so many shared values.
00:12:24 And so thank you for being just an amazing partner.
00:12:28 So I feel urgency, and I've always felt urgency,
00:12:32 but in this particular environment,
00:12:34 the urgency to create and deliver good is so extraordinary.
00:12:39 So for me, the force for good and what we're talking about today
00:12:43 is really the future, and I couldn't be more proud to be with you.
00:12:47 - Thank you, Terry. Thank you. Catherine, if I could ask you.
00:12:52 - Well, as a photographer and also as a leader of my workshops,
00:12:56 you know, my photography, my workshops, it's all about people,
00:13:00 people that we meet on our travels,
00:13:03 whether it's domestically or in foreign countries,
00:13:07 and it's about spending real time with real people,
00:13:10 giving each person that we meet respect.
00:13:13 You know, when we travel, we are ambassadors,
00:13:16 and I think that as Americans, more than ever,
00:13:21 we need to acknowledge how important this is,
00:13:24 what kind of ambassadors we are.
00:13:26 So my photography and in my workshops, it's people-to-people diplomacy.
00:13:31 I'm not trying to save the world.
00:13:34 I just want us to reach people individually, one by one by one,
00:13:40 and give them the time that it takes to be respectful.
00:13:45 It's about creating friendships through photography.
00:13:48 It's about sharing the experience of photography
00:13:50 and how we share that experience.
00:13:53 It's about giving back.
00:13:55 It's about sharing the experience when we're taking pictures,
00:13:59 and it's about returning back with photographs,
00:14:01 and this is what creates long-term friendships.
00:14:05 So I think this is what really it's about.
00:14:07 It's about creating friendships around the world.
00:14:11 I love that, and I've definitely seen that in action with you.
00:14:14 Ben?
00:14:16 Thank you. I think there's so many sort of subliminal messages
00:14:20 that we get through travel about the ability to sate people's curiosity
00:14:24 and the stimuli that brings to other parts of people's lives,
00:14:26 and we love to see that translated into the rest of people's work
00:14:31 or home lives or families.
00:14:33 You see families coming together through travel.
00:14:35 I think those parts of it are fantastic,
00:14:37 but when I look at it from a hotel operator perspective,
00:14:40 I also see so many fantastic careers that have been created,
00:14:43 so many people who've built wonderful lives for themselves and their families.
00:14:48 As you know, I was very fortunate to run the Beverly Wilshire
00:14:51 for seven years until the last few years,
00:14:53 and would meet 45-year employees who came to the country
00:14:58 and have built a career that's enabled them to send their children through college
00:15:03 and just build a really, really strong life for themselves
00:15:05 and a community around them,
00:15:07 using the hospitality business and the travel business as a base for that.
00:15:11 So we have a huge sense of responsibility,
00:15:13 and that obviously drives our purpose
00:15:16 to continue to provide careers and lives for people and their families.
00:15:20 I love that. I love the word "curiosity."
00:15:22 That's like what I want to give my daughter.
00:15:25 Will, if I could ask you,
00:15:27 what does travel as a force for good mean to you?
00:15:30 First, I mean, I agree with everything Julia said,
00:15:32 and I think that your ideals speak to everything that I've been doing
00:15:37 and we've been talking about for the past eight years.
00:15:41 Myself and a lot of my clients have enjoyed, over the years,
00:15:46 going to places after a crisis to take part in rebuilding
00:15:52 and also to see it in a state of purity and authenticity that usually isn't there.
00:15:59 And right now, the entire world is a crisis.
00:16:01 So I see where there's so much opportunity to send people around the world
00:16:05 and give them an opportunity like they'll never have for the next couple of years.
00:16:09 Absolutely. Vanessa?
00:16:12 Yes, I'm sitting here in Europe,
00:16:15 and I think also the way I look at travel as a force for good
00:16:18 is from the perspective of the world that we are in today,
00:16:22 where borders are closing and mentalities are tightening.
00:16:27 And I've really felt very strong these last few years,
00:16:30 especially about this idea that travel is a force for good,
00:16:33 because it allows us, we're using the words "stay curious,"
00:16:37 "stay open-minded and tolerant."
00:16:39 I mean, I'm particularly passionate about family travel,
00:16:42 and we'll talk about that.
00:16:44 But I think this idea of really using the opportunity
00:16:47 to travel as a force for good,
00:16:48 to just stay connected with the world and keep tolerance alive.
00:16:52 And there's a quote of an American writer that I always like to refer to
00:16:58 in why I think traveling does so much good to the world.
00:17:02 It's, "So much of who we are is where we have been."
00:17:07 It's a writer called William Lankerish.
00:17:09 And I think that all those tiny moments that we build in ourselves
00:17:13 in any journey that we take, shape who we are, shape our children.
00:17:19 And really, while a force for good can mean different things to different people,
00:17:24 ultimately, I think it's about inner exploration
00:17:29 and also connecting with the outside world.
00:17:31 And in that respect, it's a very powerful tool.
00:17:36 And also, I think it's quite unique in the sense that it's double-sided.
00:17:41 Travel is a space where both the spender and the receiver
00:17:45 are in a position to do good and receive good.
00:17:49 I mean, the spender goes, of course, on a journey, on a trip,
00:17:53 to explore, to relax.
00:17:55 But if it's done in a meaningful way and in a conscientious way,
00:17:59 the receiver, the community that surrounds the destination,
00:18:04 really can benefit tremendously.
00:18:06 So it's really beautiful that it's double-sided that way.
00:18:10 I love that.
00:18:11 Yeah.
00:18:12 I'm already tearing up several times, just to let you guys know.
00:18:16 Thank you, Vanessa, for that.
00:18:19 I'm going to switch up the order a little bit.
00:18:21 But I'm going to go back to Terry.
00:18:23 And I just want to ask you--
00:18:24 I mean, your USQA represents so many members, so many amazing members
00:18:29 who lead groups of people around the world.
00:18:32 What are some specific things that you've
00:18:36 seen that companies have done to make tours more sustainable,
00:18:40 whether it's low season or whatever else it is?
00:18:43 Yeah, first, I'd like to talk about Tourism Cares, which
00:18:47 I know you're familiar with.
00:18:49 And our leaders over a decade ago had the foresight and vision
00:18:54 to build Tourism Cares.
00:18:56 And it has evolved over the past decade or so
00:18:59 into an organization that focuses on social responsibility
00:19:03 and sustainability.
00:19:05 And they help inspire us and our members as we figure out
00:19:08 our path moving forward.
00:19:10 So now to get to your question, first of all,
00:19:13 we have members last week who planted 100,000 trees in Africa
00:19:19 on Earth Day.
00:19:21 We have members who work with Me2We to minimize their footprint.
00:19:26 We work with South Pole.
00:19:27 We work on carbon offsetting.
00:19:30 So all of these elements are being integrated into the customer
00:19:33 experience.
00:19:34 And the way that our members are designing the product today
00:19:37 has dramatically changed over the past decade.
00:19:41 You're going to have a chance to go into families' homes
00:19:44 and dine with them, hear from local artisans, historians.
00:19:48 So it's a completely different experience
00:19:51 than it was 20, 30 years ago.
00:19:53 And I think that's how we will thrive moving forward,
00:19:56 is looking through the lens of the customer
00:19:59 and the experience that they need
00:20:01 and make sure that we're delivering that.
00:20:04 And I love that because part of the reason
00:20:06 why we wanted you on this particular call
00:20:08 is because tours-- because it's big--
00:20:11 not big, groups of people-- groups of people.
00:20:13 I mean, that has a bigger power to incite change.
00:20:16 So that's why your members have bigger buying power sometimes
00:20:21 to do things like that, which is great.
00:20:26 I was going to add, you talked about big.
00:20:31 And really, in our member survey last year,
00:20:34 the three top things--
00:20:35 local immersion, small ship, small group,
00:20:39 and uncharted destinations.
00:20:41 So big, yes, sometimes.
00:20:45 But it's really becoming smaller.
00:20:48 It's becoming more intimate and personal.
00:20:50 And that's the future.
00:20:52 I love that.
00:20:53 I love that.
00:20:53 Everyone's hearing the message.
00:20:57 Ben, if I could go to you.
00:20:59 When I saw you in New York in January, you talked about--
00:21:02 it really stuck with me.
00:21:03 You talked about feeling a deep responsibility
00:21:06 for supporting your 50,000 employees around the world
00:21:09 when things happen.
00:21:11 And of course, we didn't foresee the extent of this then.
00:21:14 But could you talk a little bit about that?
00:21:16 Yes, for sure.
00:21:17 And undoubtedly, when we were talking
00:21:19 about this as hypothetical instances of one region
00:21:22 or one destination being impacted,
00:21:24 and the things that we're able to do,
00:21:25 we certainly wouldn't have predicted that this would
00:21:28 be on a global scale.
00:21:29 But I think when you start to talk about a sense of purpose,
00:21:32 which is really the most important thing when it comes
00:21:34 to engaging with our employees and having them feel like
00:21:37 they're part of something greater and something
00:21:40 that they can really contribute to,
00:21:41 that transcends into times like this as well.
00:21:44 And we do feel a huge sense of responsibility
00:21:47 to our employees.
00:21:48 And as you start to look at the different work
00:21:50 that we're doing in the community
00:21:52 as we go through the situation that we're dealing with now,
00:21:55 we see some fantastic examples of people coming together
00:21:58 and helping to contribute to what's
00:22:00 going on in the world right now.
00:22:02 And it's difficult. We have, obviously,
00:22:04 hotels in most enormous urban centers.
00:22:07 And we have resorts in remote areas
00:22:10 where we've created a community around that resort that
00:22:13 wouldn't have developed if it wasn't
00:22:15 for the hotel or the resort that we built there.
00:22:18 And all the spin-off businesses that comes from that--
00:22:20 so the restaurants and the tour operators and the boat
00:22:22 drivers and all the people who've
00:22:24 helped to create travel--
00:22:26 to be as amazing as it is now, that we've frankly
00:22:28 been able to sell or to support or to book and promote.
00:22:34 And we've got that sense of responsibility
00:22:36 to make sure that when travel does start to return,
00:22:38 it returns at that same very, very high level of intrigue
00:22:43 and interest and curiosity-sating behavior.
00:22:46 That, frankly, we helped to create that.
00:22:48 So we certainly see a sense of responsibility
00:22:50 to our employees.
00:22:51 This is a very, very tough time for every employee involved
00:22:55 in the hospitality industry right now,
00:22:56 right the way across every single segment.
00:22:58 And we're doing everything we possibly
00:23:01 can to support that, be it through re-education,
00:23:04 through training, through support,
00:23:06 if we have had to have employees that are furloughed or not
00:23:09 working with us right now.
00:23:11 Training, extending employee benefits,
00:23:14 like training resources while employees aren't with them
00:23:17 at the moment, as well as, as I said, some cross-training
00:23:20 examples as well.
00:23:22 But I think it also has given us a great opportunity
00:23:24 to see some of the greater community hung together
00:23:28 and to provide some really real-life, tangible solutions
00:23:33 to some difficult situations that have existed.
00:23:35 So you've probably read and heard
00:23:37 about what happened at our hotel in New York,
00:23:40 when in conjunction with our owner,
00:23:42 we were able to provide housing to house New York's health care
00:23:46 heroes.
00:23:47 And these people are heroes.
00:23:48 And we were able to provide housing for that
00:23:51 and had 225 rooms available, which
00:23:53 has been wonderfully successful and was
00:23:56 a great partnership between the governor, Taiwan,
00:23:59 and Four Seasons.
00:23:59 So as we watched that unfold, we saw, then,
00:24:03 the greater investment community around the world
00:24:06 come together, so much so that we now
00:24:08 have a similar process happening in Riyadh, in Saudi Arabia,
00:24:12 and Mumbai, in India, where we're also
00:24:15 housing frontline employees and making that greater
00:24:18 contribution as well.
00:24:19 So I think we do have some great opportunity as an industry
00:24:23 to contribute.
00:24:24 And some of these things are really, really tangible
00:24:27 for an employee, where we put together,
00:24:29 using local purchasing power, food boxes for our employees
00:24:34 in a remote resort so they can access fresh food
00:24:37 and distribute it to our employers,
00:24:39 whether they're working or not.
00:24:40 Or being able to convert a very, very valuable piece of New
00:24:44 York real estate, in conjunction with a wonderful owner,
00:24:47 to somewhere to make a real difference to people
00:24:49 performing a heroic task.
00:24:52 Well, and that's the kind of stuff, of course,
00:24:54 you-- you get a lot of press for it.
00:24:56 But people remember it.
00:24:57 And it's for the right reasons.
00:24:59 I mean, it's really incredible.
00:25:01 I've always loved what Four Seasons has done.
00:25:04 Thank you for that.
00:25:05 I would love to kind of switch gears totally
00:25:09 and go back to Catherine.
00:25:10 And Catherine, you and I have traveled together again
00:25:13 on assignment.
00:25:14 And I was always so impressed with how you were--
00:25:17 I called it you were a gracious host with people
00:25:19 when you were photographing them.
00:25:20 It wasn't like you were, like, you know,
00:25:22 getting into their lives.
00:25:24 You did it in such a gracious way.
00:25:25 And you spent 30 years traveling to Vietnam.
00:25:29 And you've been covering Agent Orange, the toxic substance
00:25:32 that was sprayed over Vietnam that ended up affecting
00:25:35 millions of people for about as long.
00:25:38 So I wanted to ask you how your photography of Agent Orange
00:25:42 changed people's lives.
00:25:44 Well, I do want to just say that I
00:25:48 think that we are in a time right now.
00:25:51 And as we start to travel again, it's
00:25:54 going to be more important than ever the way we show empathy
00:25:59 and the way we show caring and how photography does
00:26:02 that in such a unique and just very, very special way.
00:26:09 And my work in Vietnam has covered
00:26:14 victims of Agent Orange.
00:26:17 And by the way, today, April 30, is the 45th anniversary
00:26:21 of the end of the Vietnam War.
00:26:22 And these legacies still remain, with millions of people
00:26:26 still affected from the effects of Agent Orange that's
00:26:31 passed through the DNA.
00:26:32 So babies are born all the time.
00:26:36 And so this is a legacy that hasn't gone away.
00:26:38 And these people are often deformed, disfigured.
00:26:44 And people, they feel ostracized.
00:26:48 They feel shunned.
00:26:50 And photography is a way to say, I'm not afraid to look away.
00:26:55 I see you.
00:26:57 And the way that I photograph and the way
00:27:00 that I encourage my guests to photograph in workshops
00:27:03 is to show their humanity, to show them as real people,
00:27:07 not to concentrate on their deformities.
00:27:10 And it's a way to show empathy and to share
00:27:16 these photographs with them as we're taking them
00:27:18 in afterwards and to make them feel beautiful.
00:27:26 I think we're going to be facing a world with people who feel
00:27:33 still very frightened and broken out there.
00:27:35 And that more than ever, more than ever,
00:27:39 I want to get back out there and just through photography,
00:27:44 just throw my arms around people and hold them tight
00:27:48 and tell them that they mean something
00:27:52 and that we can continue through this.
00:27:55 And photography brings us together in a very special way.
00:28:00 I love that.
00:28:00 And that's why, again, why I wanted you on this call,
00:28:03 because it's a different way of thinking about travel
00:28:04 as a force for good, right, how photography and content really
00:28:07 works in that way.
00:28:10 Thank you, Catherine.
00:28:12 Will, you and all of our conversations together,
00:28:14 you've been very positive.
00:28:17 And I love that.
00:28:18 And can you talk about why you're positive right now
00:28:22 with you personally and your clients wanting to travel again?
00:28:27 I mean, this conversation is just a continuation of it.
00:28:30 Listening to what Terry said and listening to what everybody
00:28:33 else has said, it speaks to what my agency has always
00:28:36 done in terms of really curating an experience for somebody.
00:28:40 And I think it's going to be even more important in the years
00:28:44 to come for people to be conscious of all
00:28:48 the elements on their trip.
00:28:50 So I think I've got people that are excited to travel
00:28:55 over this period that's going to be kind of in question.
00:28:57 And then as it opens up, people are
00:28:59 going to be even more excited to travel.
00:29:00 And they're going to be more excited to use somebody
00:29:03 that curates that experience.
00:29:04 Yeah, and you mentioned, too, a lot of your--
00:29:07 you've always kind of pushed a lot of people
00:29:09 to low season travel.
00:29:10 And you mentioned a walking trip in December
00:29:13 to Sicily, which I loved.
00:29:16 I didn't know it was possible until recently.
00:29:19 Sorry, I didn't hear that.
00:29:21 I didn't know it was that possible until fairly recently.
00:29:24 I mean, in other words, I keep on finding out
00:29:26 about all these different things that
00:29:28 are possible in the world that are off season.
00:29:30 And again, I loved the things that Terry
00:29:32 said in terms of the trends that he's seeing,
00:29:34 because I think it speaks to everything
00:29:36 that I believe the world is going towards.
00:29:39 Yeah, absolutely.
00:29:41 Thanks for that.
00:29:42 Vanessa, you started out on Wall Street.
00:29:46 And you've traveled extensively with your three kids.
00:29:50 And you kind of turned that into a career as a travel designer.
00:29:53 Can you talk a little bit about family travel
00:29:55 as a force for good, since you know it so personally?
00:30:00 Yes, I mean, I think echoing what Will was just
00:30:03 saying in terms of family travel,
00:30:07 I mean, traveling with children gives you a chance
00:30:09 to really do it slowly.
00:30:11 And slow travel, I think, is a trend for the future.
00:30:16 And that's also how travel is going
00:30:17 to become a force for good.
00:30:19 We want slow living.
00:30:20 We want slow food.
00:30:22 And we need and we want slow travel.
00:30:25 And I think when you're with children, young or teenagers,
00:30:28 it's about immersing yourself and making sure
00:30:31 that the moment is a collective moment as a family that
00:30:35 will stay as a legacy, that will be talked about at family
00:30:40 table, at dinner, for a long time.
00:30:42 So in that respect, I think it's a beautiful and wonderful
00:30:48 opportunity to travel as a family.
00:30:51 And it's beyond just being a form of education,
00:30:55 in situ sort of, because of course, that's the case.
00:30:58 I think it's about really helping our children become
00:31:04 global citizens.
00:31:05 And going back to the early part of the conversation,
00:31:10 keeping minds open, staying curious, compassionate.
00:31:14 But it's also, I think, about that inner journey
00:31:17 for children to really understand
00:31:19 their place in the world and how they can give back.
00:31:22 I mean, I think as parents, if we
00:31:24 can succeed in making our children curious
00:31:28 and compassionate and tolerant, we
00:31:30 will feel that we have achieved a lot in our responsibility
00:31:34 of parenting.
00:31:35 And I also observe that, yeah, when families and my clients
00:31:42 really care about traveling in a way that is slow and immersive
00:31:47 and experiential, it's also an opportunity
00:31:51 to pay attention to the destination and give back.
00:31:57 And then that connection that is made with the destination
00:32:00 lasts beyond the return home.
00:32:02 And I think that's also us, as working in the travel industry,
00:32:07 we are here to foster, is that it's not only
00:32:11 the act of traveling that matters,
00:32:13 that will be impactful, but it's everything afterwards.
00:32:17 It's that connection, that bond that is
00:32:19 created with the destination.
00:32:22 I think travelers don't care, don't
00:32:24 want to just travel for the hedonistic side of things.
00:32:29 And families even less, it's really
00:32:33 about making an imprint and nurturing that imprint,
00:32:36 so that the dialogue with the destination continues.
00:32:42 Absolutely.
00:32:43 And I know Julia took a sabbatical in--
00:32:45 when was it, November or December?
00:32:47 Yeah, November and December.
00:32:49 I was just thinking, hearing Vanessa talk,
00:32:51 I mean, the best moments, I went to Europe with my two kids, who
00:32:55 are two and five, and my husband and my mom.
00:32:59 And we sailed with Ama down the Rhine.
00:33:04 We were in Amsterdam.
00:33:05 And then we spent a couple of weeks in Paris.
00:33:08 And I mean, what a privilege to be able to do that.
00:33:11 So thank you, Afar, for granting me--
00:33:14 again, it feels like a decade ago already.
00:33:16 But a sabbatical on my 10th year anniversary of being here.
00:33:21 But the city, the country was experiencing transit strikes
00:33:27 when we were there.
00:33:28 So we were pretty much on foot the whole time.
00:33:31 And on one of the last days, I took my older daughter,
00:33:35 my five-year-old.
00:33:37 We were staying on the left bank.
00:33:39 And we just walked and walked and walked.
00:33:42 And we wandered into one of the Arrondissements
00:33:46 that I don't know very well.
00:33:48 We just stopped in all of these local markets.
00:33:50 I mean, it's a very sort of cliched Parisian day.
00:33:53 But she has never had that before.
00:33:56 And it has made an imprint on her.
00:34:01 So we're trying to sort of do all of these--
00:34:03 we have a story up on Afar right now about how
00:34:05 to recreate a day in Paris.
00:34:07 And we're building Eiffel Towers during the day.
00:34:10 And I just think about the experience
00:34:13 that she had in those six weeks.
00:34:18 She made huge leaps just in language
00:34:21 and her sort of understanding of the world and her place in it.
00:34:24 And you can't find that in a school, right?
00:34:28 It's the school of life.
00:34:30 And it's the school of the world.
00:34:31 And that's pretty much the best way to nurture a child,
00:34:35 I think.
00:34:35 I remember the power of a chocolate croissant, too,
00:34:38 right?
00:34:39 There were a few.
00:34:40 Yes, hunting for that as well.
00:34:41 Ben, you've traveled right around the world with-- you've
00:34:43 three kids, too.
00:34:45 Yeah.
00:34:46 Yeah.
00:34:46 I mean, I love the idea of this being a privilege.
00:34:49 I think it's such an important thing for us
00:34:51 to keep remembering as we travel.
00:34:52 And we travel more and more frequently.
00:34:54 And yes, there's no question.
00:34:56 I spend half of my life traveling and seeing
00:34:59 different places, either for business or with my family.
00:35:02 And the idea that this is something
00:35:04 that is a commodity that isn't granted to us permanently
00:35:07 has really been reinforced by this travel time
00:35:10 that we're in now.
00:35:11 And as I connect with people and start
00:35:12 to understand travel trends going forward, which
00:35:15 is what we're all looking for, right?
00:35:17 We're all looking to get back to the insight and analytics
00:35:20 driven travel planning world so we
00:35:23 can start to market effectively and support businesses
00:35:25 effectively and get to that world.
00:35:27 It's interesting just to see people's attitudes changing
00:35:31 and people to develop the type of travel
00:35:33 that they want to go through.
00:35:35 You and I talked about this before,
00:35:37 but it's very easy to latch onto some of the cliche ideas
00:35:41 about how travel is going to change.
00:35:42 And in reality, I think we probably
00:35:44 don't really know quite yet exactly how people
00:35:46 are going to react to this.
00:35:48 Anecdotally, we can pick up on little pieces.
00:35:50 But probably very important for us
00:35:52 not to take those very small anecdotes
00:35:55 and create them as being the definition of travel
00:35:58 for the next 10 years.
00:36:00 Because it would put us on a path that, aside from probably
00:36:03 not being, from a marketing perspective,
00:36:05 very sensible in terms of sustaining business through it,
00:36:08 it also could create some trends that maybe aren't even
00:36:10 the ones that will work very well.
00:36:13 But when I look at my children traveling,
00:36:16 and I have my eldest child back from college living with us
00:36:21 again-- it's always fun--
00:36:23 it's interesting to see their curiosity to get out
00:36:26 and to see different things and to explore different places.
00:36:29 And I think they have had a new understanding of just
00:36:32 how good it was that we got to explore
00:36:34 all these fantastic places.
00:36:36 And I love the idea of sustaining
00:36:38 the impact of a trip for a longer period of time.
00:36:41 I think we are in a bit of an instant gratification
00:36:43 kind of world right now.
00:36:45 And perhaps to make some of the trips that we take
00:36:48 have a longer lead in time to them
00:36:50 and have a longevity that extends beyond that,
00:36:53 not just thinking of it from a marketing world,
00:36:55 but also from just a pure mental engagement perspective
00:36:59 to still continue to get those stimuli long
00:37:02 after you've returned, and not just waiting, OK, that's done.
00:37:06 What's the next trip going to be?
00:37:07 And I love that if some good will
00:37:09 come of that, of this process, it'll
00:37:12 be that we have this level of appreciation that
00:37:14 extends for a longer period of time
00:37:16 during the rest of our lives.
00:37:17 And we can apply the travel stimuli
00:37:19 to the rest of the things that we do every day
00:37:21 that maybe aren't quite as exciting.
00:37:24 So, so true.
00:37:25 And I always said, the second that I get jaded when
00:37:27 I'm at a nice hotel or in a new destination,
00:37:29 I need to get out of this job.
00:37:30 Because there have been moments, right,
00:37:32 where you're going, going, going,
00:37:34 and you're seeing so much.
00:37:35 And then you're planning for the next trip
00:37:37 and you're kind of--
00:37:37 I love that, the instant gratification part,
00:37:39 and maybe prolonging that--
00:37:42 those trip memories a little bit longer.
00:37:44 Very quick, there's another very just quick opportunity
00:37:47 there as well.
00:37:48 I think we frequently get to travel to places
00:37:50 for business reasons.
00:37:51 And it's really hard sometimes to sort of find time
00:37:53 to go and really explore the culture of that city
00:37:56 or the destination to a greater extent.
00:37:58 So certainly a lesson that I've taken out of this
00:38:00 is to make sure I'm far more sort of disciplined
00:38:03 about exploring somewhere beyond the two-day meeting
00:38:05 I need to do in Cairo when I flew there from New York.
00:38:08 It's a different process to make sure you really understand
00:38:11 where you're going to.
00:38:12 Because as we found out, you never
00:38:14 know how long it might be before you can go back or if you--
00:38:18 Yeah, I think I'm always going to have
00:38:20 that feeling from now on.
00:38:22 Terry, to kind of move back to, again,
00:38:26 kind of that old vision of tour buses dumping out.
00:38:30 And what are the great things about a tour that I--
00:38:34 when you're-- that you can't get traveling alone?
00:38:37 Well, first of all, it has evolved so much.
00:38:42 And now we have members who are positioning it
00:38:44 as guided or escorted, a new way to talk about the experience.
00:38:49 And so we've touched on these throughout the conversations.
00:38:53 It's all about local.
00:38:54 And it's about access.
00:38:56 And through group travel, whether it's small or large,
00:39:00 our members have access to individuals, historians.
00:39:05 They have access to museums where
00:39:07 you can get in possibly an hour early or after it's closed.
00:39:11 You can have these experiences with locals, the families.
00:39:15 So it's really about making it personal, approachable.
00:39:19 And it has evolved in a way that is going
00:39:22 to continue to have appeal.
00:39:24 And I think in this really tragic time
00:39:27 that we're in right now, I think people will recognize the safety
00:39:32 net that it also provides, that you've got somebody to help you
00:39:36 if a crisis happens, if Mother Nature flexes her muscle,
00:39:40 or there's a geopolitical event.
00:39:42 You've got someone there to assist you.
00:39:45 I remember when I first started, my first weekend joining USTOA,
00:39:49 and it was Arab Spring Rising.
00:39:52 And I got into the office, and I--
00:39:54 what do I do?
00:39:55 It's the first day on the job.
00:39:56 This just happened over the weekend.
00:39:58 So I said, you know what?
00:40:00 Let me call a conference call of all of our members
00:40:02 and whoever wants to join.
00:40:04 And I wanted to listen to how I could help
00:40:07 and what they were doing.
00:40:08 And I was amazed.
00:40:10 We had members who chartered planes on their own expense
00:40:14 getting their customers home.
00:40:16 We had members working with members getting their customers
00:40:19 outside of the core part of Cairo.
00:40:22 So that safety net that comes with being
00:40:24 part of a group experience is so valuable,
00:40:28 and it'll become more valuable as we
00:40:30 get through this pandemic.
00:40:32 So anyway, it's not the way it used to be.
00:40:36 It's going to-- it's going to have to evolve.
00:40:38 We all are going to have to evolve and figure it out.
00:40:41 I almost feel like we shouldn't talk about recovery.
00:40:45 It's really about reimagining and redefining
00:40:48 what this experience is going to be.
00:40:50 Because if you say recovery, it's
00:40:52 saying that we will accept what was the past.
00:40:57 And the past isn't going to happen.
00:40:59 So we need to reimagine, redefine.
00:41:02 And you know what?
00:41:03 I have all the confidence in the world
00:41:05 it'll be 10 times better, but it'll be different.
00:41:08 Yeah, I love that.
00:41:10 I mean, especially because I'm still grieving the past, right?
00:41:12 So it's kind of looking forward.
00:41:14 It could be better.
00:41:15 It can be better.
00:41:16 And I love the way you said that.
00:41:18 And Will, I wanted to go back to you,
00:41:20 because what Terry said, the trust level of a group
00:41:24 or the power of access.
00:41:26 And you do that as well with your clients.
00:41:28 I mean, you talked to me about how the feeling that they're
00:41:31 really part of the healing process
00:41:32 and going to local restaurants and guides and stuff.
00:41:35 Can you talk about that a little bit more?
00:41:37 Definitely.
00:41:38 I mean, our company started out with group travel.
00:41:40 And then my brother and I just kind of figured out over time
00:41:42 that we liked working with individuals and FITs more.
00:41:46 But it's the whole experience that Terry and everybody else
00:41:49 is talking about.
00:41:50 It's giving people local access that they are not
00:41:53 going to necessarily have.
00:41:54 And it's access that's not necessarily
00:41:56 replicated on a daily basis.
00:41:59 It's things that only happen at certain times of the year,
00:42:01 like a lantern festival or a special market that's
00:42:05 not happening every day for the tourist buses
00:42:08 and for the cruise ships.
00:42:10 So I love curating those kinds of experiences.
00:42:13 I love people that are looking for those kinds of experiences,
00:42:16 because the world is full of them.
00:42:18 And to stay on the positivity, like with this kind of a crowd
00:42:21 and with the crowd that is in this industry across the world,
00:42:26 it's exciting for what this is going to look like.
00:42:29 And we have no idea right now.
00:42:31 But I'm super excited about the next couple of years.
00:42:35 I love that.
00:42:36 Vanessa, you actually started something.
00:42:38 The way that I found you was I loved--
00:42:41 you also write this amazing blog.
00:42:43 And the way that you found these just unknown,
00:42:46 undiscovered places, it just really caught my eye.
00:42:48 And then I realized that you were a travel designer.
00:42:51 So you started something called The Generous Traveler
00:42:54 to help travelers give back even more and make it easier on them.
00:42:57 And you also donate a portion of proceeds
00:43:00 from each trip to charity.
00:43:01 And I thought that was amazing for a small business
00:43:04 and small company.
00:43:04 Can you talk more about that?
00:43:07 Yes, I mean, it's sort of two separate elements
00:43:11 that run in parallel.
00:43:12 I mean, on one hand, I do find it
00:43:15 important to just give back also at my own level of being
00:43:19 a small business owner and donate
00:43:21 a portion of the revenues that I make from the trips
00:43:26 that I design for my clients to charities.
00:43:28 And I decide to do so by giving back
00:43:31 to charities at the destination where
00:43:33 my clients have traveled.
00:43:35 It's my way to give back.
00:43:36 And it can be a conversation together with my clients
00:43:39 or not if they're not interested.
00:43:40 But I think it's also--
00:43:43 it opens conversation.
00:43:44 And I think The Generous Traveler
00:43:46 that you were mentioning, it's a platform in the making.
00:43:49 But it's really a marketplace that I'm putting together.
00:43:53 The idea occurred to me when we traveled
00:43:58 as a family in Sri Lanka a few years ago with my children
00:44:02 and realized that it's a small country with huge needs
00:44:06 and incredible beauties.
00:44:08 But it was impossible to really know which organizations,
00:44:11 which grassroots organizations, which local charities
00:44:15 doing good that we could participate with,
00:44:19 whether it be by donating some of our time, donating money,
00:44:21 but engaging with.
00:44:23 And there's really just lots of scattered information
00:44:26 on the web, but no platform that really aggregates
00:44:31 the decision--
00:44:32 these organizations.
00:44:33 And then, look, thinking of it further,
00:44:36 I really appreciated that for travel philanthropy
00:44:40 to take place, I think travelers need
00:44:42 to connect with the cause.
00:44:45 Of course, we can all give to incredible organizations
00:44:48 like Charity Water, Médecins Sans Frontières.
00:44:50 And we know that--
00:44:52 where this is going to go.
00:44:53 But I think for travelers to connect
00:44:55 with the causes and the needs in the destinations where they go,
00:44:58 they also have to connect with organizations that
00:45:00 act specifically in what they care about,
00:45:02 whether it's conservation, whether it's
00:45:05 addressing poverty, whether it's ocean preservation.
00:45:09 And so I created the Generous Traveler in that respect,
00:45:13 whereby country that are visited, I have themes.
00:45:17 There's eight of them, some of those that are mentioned.
00:45:21 And I highlight in a curated way, as a curated platform,
00:45:26 sort of under the radar organization or social enterprise
00:45:31 that really deserve the attention of the travelers.
00:45:33 It's a platform in the making.
00:45:36 There's listeners in this panel today
00:45:39 who wants to help it grow to the next level.
00:45:42 It's a platform that really deserves
00:45:45 investment and attention.
00:45:46 And I think there's a lot of beautiful feedback around it.
00:45:51 And it can be a very powerful tool.
00:45:53 And I think, ultimately, with my clients, what it becomes,
00:45:56 it's also a tool to open the conversation about just travel
00:46:00 as a force for good in general.
00:46:02 It's not about telling anyone what they need to do.
00:46:05 That's a very personal decision, how
00:46:07 one wants to do good and give back.
00:46:09 But I think it's a great eye opener.
00:46:12 Yeah, we also-- when I talked to you before, you mentioned,
00:46:15 someone might plan a trip to a beautiful beach
00:46:17 resort in the Maldives.
00:46:18 But they don't really understand until they get there
00:46:20 that it's not just about the beautiful beach resort.
00:46:23 I mean, it's about so much more than that.
00:46:24 And how do you give back at that point?
00:46:26 Or a lot of people that go to Africa
00:46:29 want to do something when they get back.
00:46:32 Thank you for that.
00:46:33 And maybe if I can just add, I think our responsibility
00:46:37 as actors in the travel industry is really
00:46:40 to create first-class travel experiences,
00:46:43 but at the same time, benefit, really,
00:46:45 and address the needs of local--
00:46:48 of people at the destination.
00:46:50 So it's really that balance.
00:46:51 And I think we're in the incredible position
00:46:53 of being an enabler for that and having the resources
00:46:56 to communicate about the needs and the-- yeah.
00:47:00 Absolutely, yeah.
00:47:01 No, I need to stay at a good hotel.
00:47:04 And I also want to help people.
00:47:07 So Catherine, I wanted to--
00:47:08 I mean, I just wanted you to-- we talked earlier
00:47:11 about this story.
00:47:11 And when I had asked you, how have you
00:47:13 seen travel photography make a difference in people's lives?
00:47:15 And you told the story about one domestically.
00:47:18 And I would love if you just could talk about that,
00:47:21 how it changed this man's life.
00:47:24 Yeah, it was a remarkable experience
00:47:26 that caught me by surprise.
00:47:28 A few years ago, I was on assignment
00:47:30 for National Geographic Traveler.
00:47:31 And I just traveled to Santa Fe, not far away at all.
00:47:36 And I ended up with a Native American gentleman.
00:47:39 And he was a little bit reticent to have his photograph taken.
00:47:42 In fact, I went there to photograph
00:47:44 his little herd of buffalo.
00:47:47 But I found him to be more interesting than the buffalo.
00:47:49 He was very shy.
00:47:51 And we just kind of made friends.
00:47:53 And then he allowed me to take a portrait of him.
00:47:55 And it ended up being the full page opener to the story.
00:48:00 So I was excited.
00:48:02 And I sent him some copies of the magazine.
00:48:04 And then some months later, I found myself in Santa Fe.
00:48:08 And I got in touch with him.
00:48:10 And I went over to see him.
00:48:11 And he said, you know, the day that the magazine arrived
00:48:16 on my doorstep, I was in a very bad shape.
00:48:20 I was very depressed.
00:48:22 My girlfriend had left me with her kids, the kids we shared.
00:48:26 And I was just at the end of my rope.
00:48:30 And I was thinking that really life was not
00:48:34 worth living anymore.
00:48:35 And maybe I should just throw in the towel.
00:48:38 Then the magazine arrived.
00:48:39 I opened it.
00:48:40 And I saw this photograph of myself full page.
00:48:42 And he said it's when he realized that he mattered.
00:48:48 His life mattered.
00:48:49 He mattered.
00:48:51 And I just think that is the power of photography.
00:48:56 And as I said before, it's not that I'm
00:48:58 trying to save the world.
00:49:00 I care about the actual individuals whom I photograph,
00:49:05 just one by one.
00:49:08 I mean, I love that.
00:49:09 And I feel like that's--
00:49:09 I mean, I think in the end, my siblings and I always say,
00:49:11 like, everyone just wants to live a good life.
00:49:13 Like, you know, that's--
00:49:14 I mean, everyone just wants to feel like they matter.
00:49:16 And I feel like that's where all of our conversations
00:49:18 should come from.
00:49:20 So I really love that story for the power of an image,
00:49:23 what it could do to someone's life who is in that image.
00:49:26 And you often send photos to people after, which I love too.
00:49:29 Always.
00:49:31 Terry, I did-- I wanted to just ask you--
00:49:34 or 10 more minutes.
00:49:35 OK.
00:49:36 I wanted to ask you how--
00:49:38 you're planning a sustainability conference in Europe.
00:49:42 And I wanted to kind of just talk a little bit about that
00:49:44 and what that looks like.
00:49:47 Well, it was supposed to look like May 20 and 21,
00:49:51 but that's not happening.
00:49:52 But the reason it came about was that I
00:49:56 feel like sustainability can be overwhelming.
00:50:00 And it can feel complex.
00:50:03 And while a lot of our larger members
00:50:05 have really sophisticated programs, and some of them
00:50:09 are B Corp members, but a lot of our smaller and medium-sized
00:50:12 members don't know how to start.
00:50:15 I don't know how to start.
00:50:17 It is complex.
00:50:18 So I felt the necessity to convene my members
00:50:23 and start figuring it out.
00:50:25 And to say to them, every journey
00:50:29 is going to be different for every business.
00:50:31 There's no one template for everyone that's going to work.
00:50:35 You have to figure it out.
00:50:37 So if we can educate you on all the different components--
00:50:40 and Annie, you highlighted three--
00:50:43 then I'm doing my job as an association exec.
00:50:46 So we're very excited about it.
00:50:50 We've got a lot of learning to do.
00:50:52 But we've got case studies and professionals
00:50:56 that are going to join us and make it manageable,
00:50:59 and have each member figure out their path forward.
00:51:04 Yeah, and I think you hit on it, right?
00:51:05 Overwhelming?
00:51:06 Overwhelming is like-- it's so overwhelming.
00:51:08 Where do you start as a business owner,
00:51:10 whether you employ five people or 500?
00:51:12 And I think bringing people together in that way
00:51:15 will really help.
00:51:17 I look forward to hearing about it in September, right?
00:51:21 Yes, September 1.
00:51:22 September 1.
00:51:25 OK, so I did--
00:51:27 all right, let's talk just briefly,
00:51:29 if anyone wants to talk about--
00:51:32 there's been a lot of questions about fear,
00:51:34 and fear of traveling, and how do we--
00:51:37 does the power of travel as a force for good,
00:51:40 and travel in general, does it overcome fear in your mind?
00:51:43 Will, does it overcome fear for your clients?
00:51:46 Depends on where the fear comes from.
00:51:50 I mean, I certainly think that travel makes you aware of the
00:51:53 fact that we're all basically the same.
00:51:56 The people living over the hill aren't any different than us.
00:51:59 So in that sense, but if we're talking about the fear
00:52:04 that you get through the major media,
00:52:06 I don't know how to address that.
00:52:08 Yeah.
00:52:10 There's an opportunity here, Annie,
00:52:12 just when you think about trust.
00:52:14 We've all got this element of somebody entrusting us
00:52:18 with their health, and their safety, and their security.
00:52:21 And maybe that's changed a little bit.
00:52:23 And certainly, the parameters of what
00:52:25 makes you move to booking a trip might
00:52:28 be a little bit different.
00:52:29 And there may be some other obstacles
00:52:31 that we need to overcome.
00:52:32 But ultimately, I still think we're
00:52:34 a curious-natured group of people who will explore.
00:52:38 We just might need to change some of the parameters
00:52:40 around so people develop that trust earlier.
00:52:43 And that may come with the way brands perform.
00:52:45 It may come with the way communication takes place.
00:52:48 But ultimately, it's going to come over time.
00:52:50 And people seeing that perhaps some slight modifications
00:52:53 in travel plans will give them the level of trust
00:52:56 that things will be OK.
00:52:58 Yeah.
00:52:59 I love that.
00:53:01 Vanessa?
00:53:02 I was going to add this.
00:53:03 I think that this crisis has taught us the value of community
00:53:07 throughout the world.
00:53:08 I think in any environment today,
00:53:12 there's a sense that in London or in the UK,
00:53:15 it's about cheering for the NHS.
00:53:16 All over the world, this crisis has
00:53:18 made people come together around the idea
00:53:20 that community is hugely important.
00:53:22 And I think that if we promote travel on the basis
00:53:26 that it's an incredible vehicle for positive feelings
00:53:29 like empathy and compassion, then
00:53:31 we really stand a chance for making it during this crisis,
00:53:35 not but after when we all resume our travel
00:53:38 about positive impact.
00:53:39 And I think it will resonate still in the mind of people.
00:53:42 So we'll help them overcome fears, I think,
00:53:44 by rallying around those positive values.
00:53:47 I love that.
00:53:48 And I mean, I was having, to be honest, a terrible week.
00:53:50 And this has really made me feel better.
00:53:52 So we should all get together again like this.
00:53:55 OK, I'm going to do a quick round-robin
00:53:57 of all the panelists.
00:53:58 Where do you want to go tomorrow if you could travel tomorrow?
00:54:00 Terry?
00:54:02 Malta, because my board meeting was
00:54:05 supposed to be there last week.
00:54:06 And it didn't happen.
00:54:07 So I want to go back to Malta.
00:54:09 OK, nice.
00:54:11 Catherine?
00:54:13 Well, of course, I want to go be with my boyfriend in France
00:54:16 after I get to the hairdresser.
00:54:18 But yeah, I actually would just like to jump in the car
00:54:22 and drive down the California coast, go through Big Sur,
00:54:25 and go to Los Angeles, and be with my brother,
00:54:29 and see my fellow Californians along the way.
00:54:34 Julia, fellow Californian.
00:54:36 Yeah, I mean, god, I was up and down the state so much.
00:54:41 And in the lead up to, I was anticipating
00:54:44 that we were going to be sheltering in place.
00:54:46 And man, I went to pretty much every county, I think.
00:54:50 We canceled a trip to Japan.
00:54:52 And I was really looking forward to taking my daughters there,
00:54:54 because my daughter's preschool friend moved back
00:54:59 with her family.
00:55:00 So I'm hoping that we can revisit that trip as soon
00:55:04 as possible.
00:55:06 For sure, for sure.
00:55:07 Ben, where do you want to go besides Inglewood?
00:55:09 [LAUGHTER]
00:55:11 I think that there's the obvious example of places
00:55:15 that I would love to be able to connect back
00:55:17 with family in the UK.
00:55:18 I have a very elderly grandmother.
00:55:20 And you always worry during times like this
00:55:22 that you're going to get that opportunity to really spend
00:55:24 time and connect with family.
00:55:26 And on the other side of things, I
00:55:28 think from a business perspective,
00:55:30 certainly to start some more direct conversations
00:55:32 with some of our key partners.
00:55:34 Obviously, if I could get to New York right now,
00:55:36 that would be a great place for me
00:55:37 to meet with most of our biggest partners
00:55:40 and really gather those insights as we strategize, I think,
00:55:43 together [AUDIO OUT] industry.
00:55:46 So how to bring this thing forward and how to look forward
00:55:49 and how to be optimistic, for sure,
00:55:51 and how to do that with strategy.
00:55:52 So certainly some family travel would be really great.
00:55:55 And then start to put the business and the industry
00:55:57 back together would be really good as well.
00:55:59 Yeah, I hope so.
00:56:00 Will, where do you want to go?
00:56:02 Wherever, whichever city most of my friends are,
00:56:06 I'd like to be there to celebrate.
00:56:09 Come to London.
00:56:11 London, sure.
00:56:12 Vanessa?
00:56:15 I think I'd like to go somewhere where just I really
00:56:17 feel very much alive.
00:56:18 I mean, in a very sort of personal way,
00:56:21 I think I just want to go somewhere where there's music,
00:56:23 food, smiles, and places--
00:56:26 when I closed my eyes, I knew you were going
00:56:27 to ask a question like this.
00:56:28 I thought of Brazil.
00:56:30 I always feel alive when I'm in Brazil.
00:56:32 It's just-- they have this joie de vivre,
00:56:34 you know, this very contagious positivity.
00:56:39 So maybe there.
00:56:41 I love that.
00:56:42 And Ellen, where do you want to go?
00:56:43 And I'll let you close us out.
00:56:47 So actually, a friend of mine in the industry
00:56:49 said recently, which actually was so real for me,
00:56:53 is that we're going to be like dogs coming out of our home
00:56:57 with the car door open.
00:56:59 And you just get in the car and have no idea where it's going.
00:57:02 But you're just so excited to get in that car.
00:57:04 And I think for me, that's an airplane.
00:57:06 Wherever that plane can take me, that's where I'm going to go.
00:57:09 But first, I'll go see my ailing mom, because I miss her
00:57:12 and I miss my family.
00:57:13 So that's my first stop.
00:57:16 And I will say, Annie, that these
00:57:18 have been so incredibly enlightening each week
00:57:22 that we do these.
00:57:23 And I thank you so much for just moderating and putting
00:57:27 these great groups together with me and with Afar.
00:57:30 And to Julia for sharing, this is really
00:57:34 what we believe in at Afar, is the power of travel
00:57:37 and the good of travel.
00:57:39 And we've been doing it for over a decade
00:57:40 and inspiring and guiding our travelers
00:57:43 to be more empathetic and thoughtful as they travel
00:57:48 the world in a very privileged way.
00:57:50 And this has been an incredible panel.
00:57:53 We've been doing these for weeks.
00:57:55 I don't think I've teared up yet.
00:57:56 So I've had several moments of tearing up.
00:57:59 So I thank you for that.
00:58:01 And it is very heartfelt and soulful.
00:58:04 And this is how we're going to move forward together.
00:58:07 And I really appreciate the community
00:58:10 that we have built together and appreciate you all today.
00:58:13 I will say that going back to the survey
00:58:16 that Annie was referring to earlier,
00:58:18 we know the type of response we would get.
00:58:21 And we did it through one of our very engaged newsletters
00:58:25 and got in 24 hours almost 2,000 people
00:58:29 responded with their answers to our survey, which I'll
00:58:32 share just some of the results.
00:58:34 But it's really inspiring to know that 2/3 are planning
00:58:37 a trip right now.
00:58:39 And that's a big number.
00:58:40 And the pent-up demand for travel is really there.
00:58:44 And more expect to travel internationally in '21
00:58:48 than they did in '19.
00:58:50 So right now, they're prioritizing
00:58:53 driving destinations short term, which is my dog in the car.
00:58:59 But they're still thinking about big trips and planning forward.
00:59:03 And our readers are very interested in flexibility,
00:59:06 travel insurance, and direct bookings,
00:59:08 which is very much what we hear from a lot of you.
00:59:13 But it's very-- when the conditions change,
00:59:19 because they're following the news very closely,
00:59:22 it really matches with what we see.
00:59:24 Our readers are really engaged.
00:59:26 So just to give you the percentages,
00:59:27 it's 85% plan to travel internationally at least once
00:59:32 in '21, up from 74% who traveled in '19.
00:59:35 And 80% plan to fly in the next 12 months,
00:59:39 which tells us that they're not as
00:59:40 scared to get on an aircraft.
00:59:43 So these are inspiring statistics.
00:59:46 And together, we will move forward
00:59:49 in a very thoughtful and conscious way.
00:59:53 So I thank you all again.
00:59:54 And I wish you all the best.
00:59:56 And I give you a big virtual hug,
00:59:58 because I miss human connection.
01:00:01 You're all invited to my house for dinner in London
01:00:03 when we can fly again.
01:00:04 We're going.
01:00:06 Thank you again.
01:00:07 Thank you, everyone, for joining.
01:00:09 Thank you all.
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