Host Paige McClanahan, an American travel journalist based in France, talks about revenge travel—what it is, how it came about, and why we should dial back on it—in this episode of the podcast, Unpacked, by AFAR.
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References:
Revenge travel: How vacation vengeance became a thing - CNN
https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/revenge-travel-explainer/index.html
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Read the article version: https://rebrand.ly/8odab4c
Subscribe to Unpacked:
** Apple Podcasts **
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References:
Revenge travel: How vacation vengeance became a thing - CNN
https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/revenge-travel-explainer/index.html
----
CONNECT WITH AFAR
Afar.com is a digital and print magazine that publishes travel tips, guides, news, and stories: https://www.afar.com
Get updates on the latest articles, travel news, and more from AFAR by signing up for the AFAR newsletter: https://afar.com/newsletters
Follow AFAR on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AfarMedia
Follow AFAR on Twitter: https://twitter.com/afarmedia
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TravelTranscript
00:00 Hey, you're a thoughtful traveler and we're a thoughtful destination.
00:06 In Asheville, we treasure our natural and wild places here in the stunning Blue Ridge
00:10 Mountains.
00:12 And we appreciate visitors who share our values of stewardship and sustainability.
00:17 We invite you to explore the cultural legacies shaped by these high mountain peaks.
00:21 Be our guest!
00:22 Together, we can share adventures and preserve the natural beauty of Asheville.
00:26 Learn more at exploreasheville.com
00:29 [Music]
00:35 This is Unpacked by Afar.
00:37 I'm Paige McClanahan, an American travel journalist based in France, and today we're talking about
00:43 revenge.
00:44 Well, sort of.
00:45 [Music]
00:46 [Music]
00:59 Like most people in the world, I spent most of the past two years hunkered down at home.
01:04 And now I'm traveling again.
01:07 A couple of weeks ago, I got back from a fascinating trip to Israel and Palestine, which reminded
01:11 me of just how magical and eye-opening travel can be.
01:16 It seems like so many of us are in the same boat, right?
01:19 We're so eager to get back out there, which is amazing and something to celebrate.
01:24 But that said, you know, there's one aspect of our return to travel that I'm really having
01:28 mixed feelings about.
01:32 Revenge travel.
01:34 Maybe you've heard of this.
01:36 It's a term that first appeared in 2021, and it's been spreading ever since.
01:43 Revenge travel is about people making up for lost time.
01:47 Maybe they're rushing to take a vacation just because a destination finally opened up,
01:53 or because they finally feel comfortable traveling overseas again.
01:57 It's the idea that travelers want to take revenge on COVID, or at least the time we
02:02 lost to it, by jumping on a plane and rushing off to all of those places that we've been
02:08 dreaming of for so long.
02:10 Now I can certainly empathize with that impulse.
02:14 There are just so many places I want to go.
02:17 But there's something about the phrase "revenge travel" that, you know, I could do without.
02:25 Here in France, I live with my family in a little Alpine village that is hugely reliant
02:30 on tourism.
02:31 We get tons of hikers in the summer, skiers in the winter, and cheese lovers year-round
02:37 because believe me, it is always cheese season in this part of the world.
02:43 Living here over the past four years, I've seen just how much the presence or the absence
02:49 of travelers affects people who live in our community in ways that are really good, really
02:56 bad, and everything in between.
03:01 So when I think about traveling right now, I don't like to think about getting revenge
03:05 for time lost.
03:07 I want to take time to understand what's at stake in the communities that I'm going
03:11 to visit, especially given that, coming out of the pandemic, some of these places are
03:17 more vulnerable than ever.
03:21 And at the risk of sounding naive, I really want to do my best to do some good while I'm
03:27 out in the world.
03:28 So come along with me in this episode as I explore how we can all support the communities
03:33 we visit and have those fulfilling travel experiences we've all been craving.
03:38 And I promise it's possible to do both.
03:43 We define responsible tourism primarily as ways of traveling which make better places
03:52 for people to live in and better places for people to visit.
03:56 And the order of those two objectives is quite important because if you're going to make
04:03 tourism better, it's really got to be better for the host and better for the guest.
04:12 That's Harold Goodwin, the CEO of the Responsible Tourism Partnership, an organization that
04:17 helps governments and businesses make sure that travel works for everyone.
04:24 I asked Harold what the negative impacts of tourism can be, and he described the situation
04:30 in Barcelona, a city that became maybe a little too famous for its crowds before the pandemic.
04:38 The main negative impacts there, I guess, would be crowding in places that the local
04:46 community wants to use.
04:48 So crowding is one issue.
04:50 The behavior of tourists who are at leisure in a place where other people are working,
04:55 and people at leisure perhaps have a tendency to consume more alcohol than when they're
05:01 working.
05:03 There are impacts on the sites themselves, just in terms of physical damage from trampling
05:09 and people brushing against things, all of which have an impact.
05:14 Crowding of public transport.
05:16 Perhaps the worst example in Barcelona, in some ways perhaps the worst thing in Barcelona,
05:22 was the impact that it had on the ownership of property.
05:25 So that a lot of what had been rented accommodation went to Airbnb or was converted to licensed
05:32 flat rentals, all of which squeeze out local communities who then cannot necessarily find
05:40 somewhere to live.
05:41 Oh yes, the old Airbnb dilemma.
05:47 Last summer, I traveled to Barcelona to write a news story about the city's efforts to regulate
05:51 Airbnb, which is a topic that inspires a lot of strong opinions in the city.
05:57 I interviewed the deputy mayor, city planners, Airbnb officials, as well as locals who rely
06:02 on the income they earn as hosts to be able to pay their own rent.
06:06 In doing that reporting, I was struck by just how hard the local government was working
06:11 to respond to their citizens' concerns.
06:15 Harold says that's one of the key factors in making sure that travel is good for everyone.
06:21 Citizens need to speak up.
06:23 Governments need to listen.
06:25 He pointed to a great example of that kind of civic engagement in Kerala in southern
06:30 India.
06:31 So this part of India is known for its palm-lined beaches, mangrove forests, and tea, coffee,
06:38 and spice plantations.
06:40 Kerala is also home to a vast network of lagoons and barrier islands, similar to the bayous
06:46 of Louisiana, where visitors can spend the night on a houseboat or go exploring by canoe.
06:53 Kerala is so beautiful that it attracts more than a million foreign visitors each year,
06:58 and a whole lot more from within India.
07:01 But for a long time, tourism wasn't working for the local communities.
07:07 There were two issues.
07:08 One was the pollution that came from large numbers of tourists going out on boats on
07:13 the backwaters, and inevitably, perhaps, but certainly it wasn't stopped, people dropping
07:20 litter into the backwaters.
07:24 So the polluting effect of litter, particularly, that was one big issue.
07:28 But the bigger issue was the fact that the communities were not benefiting economically.
07:34 Because although some of them might have got employment in the hotels, there was a lot
07:39 of bringing in of labor from outside, already skilled labor being brought in to perform
07:45 the various tasks in a hotel.
07:48 But also they weren't purchasing locally for their supplies.
07:51 So they weren't purchasing from local farmers, for example.
07:54 They weren't purchasing local crafts for the soft furnishings in the hotels.
07:59 And they weren't providing any opportunity or any way of encouraging the tourists to
08:03 leave the sort of hotel resort and go out and spend money in the local community.
08:09 In 2008, local leaders decided to take action.
08:14 They designed four projects in four communities.
08:18 Each project tested a different way to make tourism better for the people who lived there.
08:24 One of those pilot projects in a village called Kamarakoram was a huge success.
08:29 So over the past several years, local leaders have expanded the lessons from that village
08:34 to communities across the region.
08:36 Now that's been completely turned around in Kerala with a big statewide initiative.
08:43 So that's the example of what governments working with local communities can do.
08:47 What happened there was that the state government of Kerala worked very closely with the village
08:52 councils across Kerala.
08:54 So what was the secret to that village's success?
08:58 Gerald says there were three key elements.
09:01 First, they created cooperatives made up of farmers and artists who would supply resorts
09:06 and hotels with food, furniture, and art.
09:10 Second, they created something called Village Life Experiences.
09:15 The program invited residents to earn an income by teaching visitors to weave with coconut
09:21 leaves, to fish in the traditional manner, or to take part in whatever the locals wanted
09:26 to share.
09:27 And finally, the local leaders created restaurants and craft markets where locals could come
09:32 together to sell their food and their crafts directly to tourists.
09:38 So that was a pretty impressive turnaround.
09:40 But hearing Harold describe all of this, I wondered, what lessons or principles from
09:46 those experiences can we apply to all of our trips?
09:51 Harold says that first, we should choose a destination that is ready to welcome travelers.
09:57 It has to have the infrastructure to manage tourism.
10:02 So that means maybe looking for a place that has a tourist ward, or a place where the natural
10:07 areas have parking lots and bathrooms and marked trails.
10:11 It means trying not to get too far off the beaten path.
10:16 Then we should think about how we're going to get there, and the impact that our travel
10:21 will have on the climate.
10:24 By taking fewer, longer trips, Harold says, we can get a lot more bang for our carbon
10:29 buck.
10:30 But it doesn't end there.
10:32 So now you've arrived at the destination.
10:36 Now the question is, how do you maximize your benefit to the local economy?
10:40 And I say that basically three things.
10:44 Choose to stay in locally owned accommodation where you can.
10:49 Choose to purchase things which are being produced locally.
10:54 What's available in the local market is often a very good guide to that.
10:58 And in terms of your behavior, don't do anything abroad that you wouldn't want your mother
11:03 to know about.
11:04 It's a matter really of just trying to make sure that you fit in and that you don't conflict.
11:09 And remember that it's their place, not yours.
11:13 That sentiment really rings true for me.
11:16 As a resident of a village that gets hundreds of thousands of travelers every year, I know
11:21 what it's like to feel as though your home is being taken over by visitors.
11:27 On the flip side, I'm also really grateful for tourists who come to our area, because
11:32 the money and the energy they bring, it's exactly what makes life possible and fun in
11:37 our remote little corner of the Alps.
11:41 Harold also reminded me how important it is to be respectful about how and when we take
11:46 photographs.
11:48 Asking permission never hurts.
11:50 He also says he likes to read about local politics, history, or culture before he goes
11:55 to a new place.
11:56 It's like that old NBC slogan, "The more you know."
12:01 So yes, understanding our impact on a place takes some work.
12:06 But it's not like we have to write a thesis before we go.
12:09 We can simply ask ourselves, "Does the hotel where I'm staying hire people from the local
12:15 community?
12:16 Does its restaurant source its ingredients from the area?
12:20 Who is benefiting from that canoe trip or that market tour I'm about to take?
12:25 How do residents feel about Airbnb around here?"
12:30 Even if we just pick one question to explore before we go, that can make a big difference.
12:47 Are you inspired to travel in a more responsible way?
12:51 In Asheville, North Carolina, we believe in the power of ethical travel.
12:56 We care about the protection of our distinctive natural and cultural treasures in these Blue
13:01 Ridge Mountains.
13:02 And we appreciate visitors who share our values of stewardship and sustainability.
13:07 We know travel is transformational, and we invite you to be inspired by the creative
13:12 spirit and local flavors of our mountain home.
13:15 Be our guest.
13:17 Together we can share adventures and preserve the natural beauty of Asheville so future
13:21 generations can enjoy these mountains for years to come.
13:25 Learn more at exploreasheville.com
13:46 Welcome back to Unpacked by afar.
13:49 Okay, bear with me.
13:52 After a quick stop in Barcelona, then a trip down to southern India, we are now heading
13:57 to East Africa, specifically to Kenya.
14:01 And we're going to talk about a change in the world of safaris.
14:04 A change that makes sure that the land set aside for wildlife benefits the people who
14:10 live there too.
14:13 The biggest opportunities for communities in safari tourism is when the communities
14:20 own the land that has been put under conservation and where safari happens.
14:26 These spaces are called community conservancies.
14:30 That's Judy Kefer-Gona of the Sustainable Travel and Tourism Agenda, a consulting firm
14:35 based in Nairobi, Kenya.
14:37 Judy works in Africa and around the globe to create immersive travel experiences that
14:43 also bring wealth into host communities.
14:46 Historically, most land in Kenya has been owned by the government or by private landowners,
14:53 many of whom are descendants of white British colonials.
14:57 Judy says that in recent years, more communities in Kenya are coming together to set up conservancies
15:03 that they manage themselves.
15:07 That means that it's the locals who get to decide how and when they can use the land
15:12 to graze their livestock, which is an activity that's critical to so many rural communities
15:17 in Kenya.
15:18 It also means that they can earn money directly from tourism.
15:24 When the community owns the land and earns from the land, then safari tourism has great
15:32 impact on the community because they earn a lease fee for their land and they can negotiate
15:41 a percentage of the bed night fee from the tourism operators.
15:46 Judy also says that community conservancies make sure that tourism jobs go to people who
15:51 are actually from those rural communities, instead of being given to Kenyans who move
15:56 to the area from Nairobi or other big cities.
16:01 Any other safari where protected area is owned and managed by the government, even if these
16:08 areas are in communal lands, can only offer the basics of employment to the communities.
16:16 And that employment is shared by all other Kenyans who have the same qualifications and
16:23 therefore there is no affirmative action to prioritize communities.
16:28 So in this particular case where safari happens in areas where land is owned privately or
16:35 by government, the impact and benefits to communities is very low.
16:41 Judy says that in Kenya today, about 11 or 12 percent of the country's land is managed
16:47 by community conservancies, which is a big increase from just 20 years ago.
16:52 She also says that in those community conservancies, up to 85 percent of jobs go to people who
16:58 are local.
17:01 Community management also means that local farmers can still access the land for grazing
17:05 at certain times of the year.
17:07 When the land is owned by the government or by an individual, that kind of access isn't
17:13 guaranteed.
17:14 "But Paige," you might be asking, "how can I tell who owns the land I'll be visiting
17:20 in Kenya or anywhere?"
17:23 It's true that it is not always obvious, but a little homework can go a long way.
17:28 If you're going through a tour operator, they should be able to answer that question
17:32 for you.
17:33 Or if you're booking directly, call or email the managers and ask them about their ownership
17:39 structure and how they interact with local communities.
17:43 You can also do a quick Google search to see if the lodge or the ranch that's hosting
17:47 you has any history of conflict with its neighbors, because I'm afraid there are several examples
17:52 of that, even in Kenya.
17:55 Of course, there are a lot of other things to do in Kenya beyond safari tourism.
18:00 There are modern cities to visit, mountains to climb, and sandy beaches to explore along
18:06 the coast.
18:08 Judy says that safari tourism has long been Kenya's signature product, and there wasn't
18:13 much effort put into helping travelers have other experiences, including in cities like
18:17 Nairobi or Mombasa.
18:19 But that's starting to change.
18:23 A new tourism strategy was launched two days ago for Kenya.
18:29 It is trying to promote culture and heritage apart from the safari.
18:35 It is also big on adventure and domestic tourism.
18:41 This is an important thing to keep in mind as we venture out into the world.
18:46 What parts of a city or country are heavily marketed to travelers?
18:50 How can we explore less talked about sides of destinations?
18:54 And how does understanding how countries manage tourism help us make smart choices?
19:01 For example, Kenya's travel industry is a major contributor to the economy, and the
19:05 country wants to bring in even more international travelers in the years ahead.
19:10 Judy says that it's important that the people who are promoting travel use the right measures
19:15 to figure out if the industry is actually helping the people of Kenya overall, because
19:20 aiming for growth of the wrong kind of tourism can end up doing a lot more harm than good.
19:28 And we've been saying this for a long time as an organization.
19:31 It is only sustainable if the metrics show us that the biodiversity has been protected
19:39 and the well-being in tourism destination has improved because of tourism.
19:45 And we will say that this is truly responsible tourism.
19:49 It protects the environment.
19:53 It respects the culture of the host communities.
19:57 It respects the communities and their lifestyles, but also it makes a difference in their well-being.
20:05 Those are the things that are critical for responsible destinations.
20:12 Now before we go, let's look back at what we've learned.
20:16 Takeaway number one, pick one community-oriented question to explore before your next trip,
20:23 whether it's asking who profits from a tour you've booked or asking where your hotel
20:28 restaurant sources its produce.
20:31 Takeaway number two, take fewer, longer trips.
20:36 Takeaway number three, treat a new city like your own hometown.
20:41 And don't do anything you wouldn't want your parents to know about.
20:46 Takeaway number four, when you're looking at outdoor experiences, consider who owns or
20:51 who benefits from the land you'll be visiting and who might be excluded from it.
20:56 Takeaway number five, consider how a country manages its tourism.
21:01 Do they keep in mind the needs of the community?
21:05 And our final takeaway, remember we are all in this together and there is no need for
21:12 perfection.
21:14 So yes, we may be traveling to make up for the time we lost to COVID, but it's so good
21:19 to remember that we have the chance to do some good at the same time.
21:24 As for revenge, I think we can save that for the movies.
21:29 Thank you so much for joining me on this episode of Unpacked.
21:33 If you would like to learn more about me and my work, including my own show, the Better
21:37 Travel Podcast, you can sign up for my newsletter by stopping by my website, PaigeMcLanahan.com.
21:45 Take care and I really hope to see you out there.
21:52 Ready for more unpacking?
21:54 Visit us online at afar.com and be sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter.
21:59 We are @AfarMedia.
22:02 If you enjoyed today's exploration, we hope you'll come back for more great stories.
22:08 Subscribing makes this easy.
22:10 You can find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast platform.
22:15 And please be sure to rate and review us because it really helps other travelers find the show.
22:22 This has been Unpacked, a production of Afar Media and Boom Integrated.
22:27 Our podcast is produced by Aislinn Green, Adrienne Glover, and Robin Lai.
22:33 Post-production was by John Marshall Media staff, Jen Grossman, and Clint Rhodes.
22:39 Music composition by Alan Koreshia.
22:43 And remember, the world is complicated.
22:46 Being an ethical traveler doesn't have to be.
22:49 [MUSIC PLAYING]