We caught up with three leaders in travel: Gavin Landry, VisitBritain’s Executive Vice President, The Americas; Denise Naguib, Vice President of Sustainability and Supplier Diversity, Marriott International, Inc.; and Darrell Wade, Co-Founder and Chairman of Intrepid Travel to discuss all things sustainable travel, actions we can take, and how to meet its challenges.
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TravelTranscript
00:00:00 All right.
00:00:04 Welcome everyone to today's edition of A FAR Live, November 18th, 12 o'clock here on the
00:00:12 East Coast.
00:00:14 So excited to have these panelists with us today to talk about not just an issue, but
00:00:22 a movement that is so important to our industry, our communities, our planet, talking about
00:00:29 sustainability and falling on the heels of COP26.
00:00:33 We want to spend an hour discussing, assessing, unpacking where we are as an industry, our
00:00:41 future trajectory, and how we can positively make an impact when it comes to creating a
00:00:46 more sustainable and equitable future for our planet and our communities.
00:00:53 Before we get started, before I introduce, I just want to thank everyone for being here.
00:00:58 It's been quite a whirlwind of the last two years.
00:01:02 And it definitely seems like travel is back in a big way.
00:01:06 Lots of forward momentum, lots of growth.
00:01:09 I know we're seeing it at our company, especially with the amount of traffic that's coming to
00:01:15 our website, the amount of business that's coming in through our doors.
00:01:18 So we see a lot of really forward momentum and really excited about that.
00:01:23 And so as we see this momentum, I think it's even more relevant and more important to talk
00:01:29 about how we make sure that that momentum is positive and benefits our planet and everyone.
00:01:35 So today I'd like to introduce our panelists.
00:01:38 We have Denise Nagib.
00:01:40 She is the VP of Sustainability and Supplier Diversity at just a small little company you
00:01:46 might have heard of called Baryot International.
00:01:50 Daryl Wade is the co-founder and chairman of Intrepid Travel, coming to us live today
00:01:56 from Lille, France.
00:01:57 It's been his first trip in the last two years.
00:02:02 So we're excited to get Daryl out of Australia and into our hemisphere.
00:02:08 Not only is Daryl the chairman and co-founder of Intrepid, he's also the vice chairman at
00:02:12 WTTC overseeing all of their sustainability efforts and chairman at Travelist, which just
00:02:19 had some big announcements at booking.com this week.
00:02:24 And last but certainly not least is Gavin Landry, the EVP of the Americas for Visit
00:02:29 Britain, responsible for bringing tourism to Visit Britain for his region, which includes
00:02:37 North America, Central America, South America and the like.
00:02:40 So thank you to all of you for being here and thank you to Visit Britain for being our
00:02:45 sponsor of this today and really supporting the work that we're doing at AFAR to further
00:02:51 sustainability and really bring that concept into a definable, tangible, actionable concept
00:03:03 that we can all help move forward together.
00:03:06 So just kind of pulling back, we know there's been lots of momentum, lots of coverage of
00:03:13 COP26, lots of CEO attendance.
00:03:17 I think it's going to be good to really unpack a lot of the pledges and declarations that
00:03:22 we heard there and we'll dive into that.
00:03:25 Also another thing I want to touch on today is the importance of collaboration.
00:03:31 And we heard that, we've been hearing this more and more, that we've got to really work
00:03:36 together to make this a successful endeavor for us all.
00:03:40 I was recently in New York last week where at the NYU Hospitality Conference, the CEOs
00:03:46 of all the major hotel brands were talking about the importance of coming together as
00:03:53 an industry and definitely be talking about ways that we as individual businesses and
00:03:59 different sectors of our industry can pull together and really, really collaborate.
00:04:03 And finally, I want to make sure that everyone listening in today, and this will be recorded,
00:04:08 this will be published on our YouTube channel, we have our editors listening in, they'll
00:04:12 be transcribing it.
00:04:14 So you'll see a lot of the content that comes out of today.
00:04:19 We will be bringing that out to all of our audiences in different ways.
00:04:25 So if some of your friends and colleagues have missed today's session live, don't worry,
00:04:31 we are going to be recording this.
00:04:33 Finally, just making sure that the most important is that we can really walk away with a better
00:04:38 understanding of where we are and what we can do to move forward.
00:04:43 So just jumping right in, Darrell, COP26, I know all of us have seen it in the news.
00:04:50 Could you just kind of tell us what it is, what was the role of the travel and tourism
00:04:56 industry there?
00:04:57 What were you doing there?
00:04:58 And how did you feel about it?
00:05:00 Give us your impressions.
00:05:02 I think that was five questions, Joe.
00:05:04 That's really not fair.
00:05:05 Anyway, so first of all, I had a couple of hats.
00:05:09 I suppose I've been in climate issues since way back in 2006.
00:05:14 So I've got a bit of experience in the space, but from an intrepid perspective, but more
00:05:20 particular to that, I'm also now the vice chair of the WTDC, as you mentioned, and chair
00:05:25 the sustainability committee for that organisation.
00:05:29 And the WTDC, for those who don't know, is about 300 very large members.
00:05:35 So the Marriotts of the world, the Carnival Cruise Lines of the world, and collectively
00:05:42 a very significant chunk of the travel and tourism industry.
00:05:45 So we've been working quite a lot over the last 12 months to really try to work through
00:05:52 what is our broader sustainability agenda going to be, and then specifically, what is
00:05:56 our approach going to be to COP26?
00:05:59 Because I think the fact that we're having this call today, we're at this stage where
00:06:06 I don't think there's any doubt really about climate change.
00:06:09 I think for the first time, the first industry event I went to 10 days ago, there's about
00:06:16 300 people there, and there wasn't any dissent in the room.
00:06:20 I mean, go back five years ago or a bit more, and there'd be lots of people saying, "Oh,
00:06:25 I don't know about this.
00:06:26 Is it real?
00:06:27 Is it not?
00:06:28 We're such a small impact.
00:06:30 We can't really have anything, or it's hard for us to do anything."
00:06:34 All of that's gone.
00:06:35 Now, really, there is a consensus that something's got to happen.
00:06:40 It's a big issue for our industry specifically.
00:06:43 It's almost an existential issue, because as you well know, if you're doing articles,
00:06:49 you're doing articles generally speaking about other places and destinations.
00:06:53 When it all boils down, if the worst predictions, let's say, of climate outcomes happen, and
00:07:00 we're looking at, say, a 2.7 degree world or more, then the reality is we're going to
00:07:05 lose a lot of our destinations.
00:07:08 Gavin will probably talk to us about London, potentially, but a lot of the major cities
00:07:13 around the world, we're going to have serious flooding problems.
00:07:15 Our snowfields are going to disappear.
00:07:18 Our beaches are going to be underwater.
00:07:20 Our reefs aren't going to exist.
00:07:22 For us in the industry, quite apart from humanity, for us in the industry, I think it's a real
00:07:27 existential crisis.
00:07:28 We've got to do something about it.
00:07:30 We've got to take some responsibility ourselves.
00:07:32 Now, we've heard in the press and from influencers like Greta Thunberg, mixed reviews about COP26.
00:07:43 Some came out of it saying, like Bill Gates, "Oh, my God, so much innovation.
00:07:48 So many CEOs there."
00:07:50 Yeah, Greta, on the other side, just saying it's a conference of blah, blah, blah.
00:07:56 There were a lot of declarations and commitments made at COP26.
00:08:02 Could you quickly tell us what some of the Glasgow Declaration and other that are pertinent
00:08:09 to our industry and to stakeholders in travel and tourism, what is it that we were promising
00:08:15 and what do we now need to deliver on?
00:08:18 Yeah, and so, look, first of all, I think probably everyone on this panel kind of agrees
00:08:22 with that intro summary in that it is confusing.
00:08:27 Coming out of Paris, there was a pretty clear agreement that really was a major step forward
00:08:31 on the previous Copenhagen meeting.
00:08:34 Glasgow wasn't quite like that.
00:08:35 It wasn't as clear-cut that we've made major steps.
00:08:39 Having said that, we are way ahead of where we were previously.
00:08:43 So whilst it's fair to say there's more work to be done, I think it's also fair to give
00:08:49 credit where credit is due.
00:08:50 And there's significant advancements from the corporate world, from government world,
00:08:55 and so forth.
00:08:56 So I think we are definitely in better shape.
00:09:00 But the blah, blah, blah comment is totally valid.
00:09:04 I think it's interesting when corporates arrive at something like COP, which is actually not
00:09:08 designed for corporate interaction, it's kind of slightly worrying in a way because you
00:09:14 almost think, well, are they there to lobby for a certain outcome?
00:09:17 And on the one hand, talk the talk, and on the other hand, try to undermine.
00:09:22 And the reality is that can happen.
00:09:25 And so I think we've just got to really be careful that just to take the blah, blah, blah
00:09:31 line, the time for talk is actually over, and the time for actual clear actions, not
00:09:37 talk, actions that you are accountable for.
00:09:40 And the media or regulators or other bodies actually hold us accountable for so that we
00:09:44 make true steps forward.
00:09:47 And we'll definitely get into the accountability piece, because I think that is one piece that
00:09:52 I think is probably the fuzziest for me and definitely would love to jump into this.
00:09:57 For folks that weren't there, like Denise, you didn't have boots on the ground in Glasgow,
00:10:03 but you were watching it carefully.
00:10:05 Just from your vantage point, what was significant about it for you?
00:10:11 What were some of the most important takeaways that you think will create momentum for the
00:10:17 future of sustainability within our industry?
00:10:20 Yeah, thanks, Joe.
00:10:22 And thanks so far for hosting this panel.
00:10:24 Great to be on here.
00:10:25 So for us, I think one of the most exciting things from a sustainability practitioner
00:10:30 perspective I've been in the sustainability space for 25 years is to have business truly
00:10:35 at the table.
00:10:36 While Daryl's right where it's not really the forum where business is really making
00:10:42 a lot of impact, if you will, in terms of the decisions around COP26 itself or the COP,
00:10:47 but the fact that now business leaders, not sustainability practitioners, know what COP
00:10:52 is, know what the purpose of COP is, know the value of COP and the gathering of it,
00:10:58 and know how to use their voice to represent their interests and the interests of this
00:11:05 topic to a lot of different stakeholders, including the government, I think is really,
00:11:10 really important.
00:11:11 We're really excited to see a lot of rallying around US commitments and different decisions
00:11:16 around sort of the steps that we need to be able to move forward.
00:11:20 We really do hope that it does transpire into action.
00:11:23 I think it's a really, really important transition to go from these commitments and the pledges
00:11:28 to action.
00:11:29 While I'm not on this, you know, all the way down with Greta in terms of saying that it
00:11:33 just wasn't that effective, I do genuinely believe that there was a lot of value in some
00:11:39 of the efforts and the commitments that were made and the actions that will come out of
00:11:42 that to move forward.
00:11:43 I mean, one simple thing for us from a hospitality perspective is I think there were a handful
00:11:48 of initiatives and pledges that were made as a sector, and I think that just shows kind
00:11:53 of the bringing together of different sectors, knowing to your point earlier that we can't
00:11:58 solve this as individual companies.
00:12:00 We can't solve this as individual countries.
00:12:02 We absolutely need to rally together and sort of that collective voice, this is an imperative,
00:12:07 this is driving negative impacts to our business, to our economies, to people, I think was very
00:12:14 much heard for the first time at this particular event versus previous versions.
00:12:19 And you're hearing this idea of collaboration from the top down.
00:12:23 I mean, I know last week in New York at the NYU Hospitality Conference, you know, CEOs
00:12:28 like yours, Tony Capuano or Chris Hesed, Hilton, saying the sustainability is one area where
00:12:36 we really do have to work together and collaborate.
00:12:40 I'm curious, Denise, kind of your assessment on where we currently are when it comes to
00:12:46 collaboration within the hospitality industry.
00:12:51 And so give us kind of your state of the union on where we are and what's the framework that's
00:12:57 really helping to support this collaboration and how does that feel to you currently today
00:13:06 and what do we need to do to kind of move that forward and what does that look like?
00:13:11 Yeah, great questions.
00:13:13 So I think one thing to note is that this isn't new for the hospitality industry to
00:13:17 work together.
00:13:18 It was 2012 when we aligned as a sector at the time with WTTC and it was the International
00:13:25 Tourism Partnership, now the Sustainable Hospitality Alliance, on a methodology to calculate carbon
00:13:29 footprint for individual hotels, both for the room nights as well as for the meeting
00:13:33 space.
00:13:34 That was a fundamental starting point for us to be able to more effectively disclose
00:13:38 to our different stakeholders what their carbon footprint was.
00:13:42 This is 2012, nine, almost 10 years ago.
00:13:45 We did the same with water and just a few months ago released the same kind of methodology,
00:13:49 consistent methodology for waste and food waste.
00:13:52 So as a sector, we've been really working together to level the playing field in terms
00:13:56 of saying we're going to use the same math.
00:13:58 Nobody else kind of was telling us, hey, you need to do this.
00:14:02 This was us recognizing that for us to be able to effectively compete, we needed to
00:14:06 work together to align our approaches so that as a customer, as a buyer of travel, you can
00:14:13 actually recognize and get data based on the same math.
00:14:16 We shouldn't be competing on math.
00:14:18 One plus one should be two every single time.
00:14:20 And so it was really important for us to get that level of alignment.
00:14:24 So we've kind of had this history working together.
00:14:26 We've been working together on supply chain issues, right?
00:14:29 We buy a lot of the same things across the different hotel companies, as an example.
00:14:33 And so it's really important for us to, as we're driving sustainability in our supply
00:14:37 chain, to work together to understand where can we drive and collectively be able to move
00:14:43 the supply chain forward together versus better together than individually.
00:14:48 So from a supply chain perspective, from a communication to customers on various impacts,
00:14:52 I think we've been there for a long time and we'll continue to do more.
00:14:56 I think these latest commitments where we're also putting the stakes in the ground saying,
00:15:00 hey, in addition to our areas of focus on carbon and water, human rights issues, youth
00:15:05 employment issues, really, and the latest communication that we put out as the Sustainable
00:15:11 Hospitality Alliance was about the pathway to net positive hospitality.
00:15:14 Holistically, how are we going to show up in the world to be better so that, to Daryl's
00:15:19 point earlier, that we are recognizing the risk that is had in terms of the travel industry,
00:15:25 the risks that we're under, both from a physical risks from a planetary perspective, but also
00:15:30 the perceptive risks, right?
00:15:32 Greta is a great example, right?
00:15:35 She made it really clear that traveling on airplanes was a bad thing.
00:15:39 So what are you going to do about that if you're an airline?
00:15:41 What are you going to do about that if you're a hotel company?
00:15:43 So recognizing that we do have a collective interest and opportunity to not just say,
00:15:48 well, you should still keep traveling, but really you should keep traveling in the most
00:15:52 sustainable way.
00:15:53 And collectively, we're going to work to do that end to end across our supply chain.
00:15:56 So I think we're kind of moving in that direction.
00:15:59 And as we continue to focus, every company's focus maybe is delivered differently to their
00:16:04 constituents, but really how do we move together holistically?
00:16:07 So if I could just jump on the back of that, from the WTDC work, I've got pretty good broad
00:16:15 sector experience in terms of travel and tourism industry is a broad church.
00:16:20 We've got airlines, we've got hoteliers, we've got destinations, we've got cruise operators,
00:16:24 tour operators, et cetera, et cetera.
00:16:27 But I think it's fair to say that the hoteliers really are leading the way and have been for
00:16:30 quite a while in terms of their committed, structured way towards sustainability.
00:16:37 And hats off to the Sustainable Hospitallier Alliance.
00:16:40 I think they're doing a great job.
00:16:44 One of the things that when it comes to collaboration of large organizations is the pace of movement,
00:16:54 which can be slow.
00:16:56 That's I think why you have the Greta's of the world saying blah, blah, blah, is because
00:17:01 she's on an extreme side that's saying you're not moving fast enough.
00:17:06 How do you kind of balance that?
00:17:08 And even at COP26 to get 200 nations on board to sign declarations is pretty frigging impossible.
00:17:15 I mean, hats off to folks that were able to do it.
00:17:18 You heard some backlash in the media saying that those declarations got watered down at
00:17:22 the last moments and China and India kind of pulling back because of coal and their
00:17:28 interest there.
00:17:29 But Denise, how do you kind of manage that balance between collaboration and pace?
00:17:40 And how do you think about that as we try to move forward together?
00:17:44 I think that's a really good point.
00:17:46 I think these commitments are the floor.
00:17:49 Any company that wants and can move forward faster should.
00:17:53 And we invite that.
00:17:55 We all should be trying to strive for that.
00:17:56 But that's the floor.
00:17:58 I think if we bring everybody to that floor and that foundation, we're going to be significantly
00:18:03 more successful than if we're just trying to have a few kind of reach significantly
00:18:07 higher levels.
00:18:08 So think about it.
00:18:09 Yes, we are the largest hotel company, I think, in the world.
00:18:12 But what we do can't just be the way by which everybody does what they need to do in the
00:18:17 hotel space.
00:18:18 Individual, independent hotels, they have to be able to sort of have this space accessible
00:18:23 too because we need them to do what they need to do.
00:18:25 So just having that foundational element is really important.
00:18:29 Yes, absolutely.
00:18:30 When dealing with any large anything, country, company, government, whatever it is, it's
00:18:35 going to be things are going to be slower than one wants.
00:18:37 I have been with the hotel company Marriott for 16 years.
00:18:42 And I am an internal person who thinks that we're not moving fast enough.
00:18:46 We need to continue to push that.
00:18:48 So you have to have champions like Greta on one side, like individuals, like my peers
00:18:53 at these companies inside the organizations driving that movement forward.
00:18:57 Otherwise you're not going to be able to even get to the table, get to that alignment and
00:19:01 move forward.
00:19:02 But I really genuinely think these things are the floor as opposed to sort of the aspirational
00:19:06 goal that everybody should be reaching for.
00:19:09 I just want to back up for a second too because I think we've been using the term sustainability.
00:19:15 And I think with all the media coverage on COP26, most of the coverage is really focused
00:19:23 on environmental issues.
00:19:26 You know, you're hearing about the reduction of carbon, you know, of carbon emission, decarbonization
00:19:32 and the like.
00:19:33 But that I think is really probably only half of what we're talking about when it comes
00:19:38 to sustainability.
00:19:39 I'd love to just get each of your takes on what your definition of sustainability is.
00:19:46 And Gavin, maybe we'll start with you and give us kind of a sense of like, how does
00:19:50 Visit Britain think about the definition of sustainability?
00:19:55 Sure.
00:19:56 Well, thanks, Joe.
00:19:57 And thanks for putting this together.
00:19:59 And Denise and Daryl, it's a pleasure to be with you.
00:20:01 Denise, I've followed your career with the Grand Cayman and your work not only in this
00:20:06 space, but also supporting the cause of LGBTQ, which is what you're doing today in Florida.
00:20:11 Daryl, your work at WTTC, but also as a standard bearer with Intrepid as a B Corporation and
00:20:17 just leading the way on so many things that we all care about.
00:20:20 So thank you for that.
00:20:21 And it's great to be here with you.
00:20:23 So I think it's a good question.
00:20:24 Let me just set some context, though, in terms of the British government's commitment to
00:20:28 this.
00:20:29 And I think it's important because, you know, Britain is setting itself as a leader in this
00:20:33 space.
00:20:34 And in fact, in June of twenty nineteen, we were one of the first governments to legally
00:20:39 commit to reducing greenhouse gas emissions across all sectors by net zero or for net
00:20:44 zero by twenty fifty.
00:20:46 As you said, recently, we hosted the UN COP 26 in Glasgow, which was a very successful
00:20:51 event, as Daryl has pointed out, and made some some great progress, also demonstrated
00:20:55 how wonderful Glasgow is, is a worldwide destination to host business events.
00:20:59 I'll put that out there.
00:21:00 And of course, then in twenty twenty, the UK government set out a green industrial revolution
00:21:05 plan, which is it's a ten point plan to build back better, support green jobs, accelerate
00:21:10 the country's path to net zero and included a focus on jet zero protecting our natural
00:21:15 environment.
00:21:16 So and remember also that because tourism is devolved in Great Britain, you have the
00:21:21 nations and regions also taking great strides.
00:21:23 So visit Scotland, visit Wales and Northern Ireland are also doing remarkable things in
00:21:28 this space and are perceived as leaders in many, many ways.
00:21:31 So when we think about sustainability and the definitions of sustainability, we look
00:21:35 at it and really in three buckets.
00:21:36 And I'll talk to each of these buckets very quickly.
00:21:39 We look at it from an environmental standpoint, social and economic.
00:21:43 So there are really three aspects.
00:21:45 So if you said half, I'll say it's a third, actually, the environmental aspect that's
00:21:49 protecting the natural environment and landscape, promoting no or low carbon products and encouraging
00:21:55 visitors to respect the destinations that they visit.
00:21:58 Now on social sustainability, the way we look at that is that we're ensuring that local
00:22:02 communities see the benefits of tourism, that we're safeguarding local heritage and identity
00:22:07 and that we're taking pressure off those busier destinations.
00:22:10 And then lastly, on the economic side, this is using tourism as an economic boost for
00:22:14 destinations and communities, creating jobs, supporting the small to medium sized enterprises
00:22:19 that largely make up our industry and attracting inward investment.
00:22:23 So all of this kind of ladders, Joe, to what you say is tourism as a force for good.
00:22:29 And to Denise's point, I mean, I think it was Pope John Paul II in 2004 that talked
00:22:33 about tourism as a force for peace and for good and for understanding among peoples.
00:22:39 So these conversations have gone on for a while, but it is good to see that we're now
00:22:44 galvanizing all of those elements, social, economic and environmental sustainability
00:22:49 into the conversation and bringing that forward as part of our approach, especially when it
00:22:53 comes to the visitor economy or the broader tourism industry.
00:22:57 And when it comes to your roadmap, Gavin, what is it that you're using as your North
00:23:06 Star or North Stars to help you identify kind of those areas, the things that fall under
00:23:14 those areas?
00:23:15 It sounds a lot like when I'm hearing you speak, like it makes me think a little bit
00:23:19 about GSTC, Global Sustainable Tourism Council's industry criteria.
00:23:24 It makes me think of the UN SDGs a little bit.
00:23:28 What are you using for your organization to help even give you a clear sense of the roadmap
00:23:36 and the many various aspects of sustainability that we need to be thinking about and tackling
00:23:42 simultaneously?
00:23:43 Sure.
00:23:44 Well, I mean, there are a number of factors in this conversation.
00:23:48 So one is that 20 years ago, DMOs meant destination marketing organization.
00:23:53 Today, I think the more evolved DMOs or NTOs are really management organizations and they
00:23:59 are much more accountable for destination stewardship.
00:24:03 So when you look at destination stewardship, what does that mean?
00:24:05 Well, in our case, it means understanding where there is capacity for future tourism
00:24:10 growth and how we can map that out and what's needed to cause that growth, whether it's
00:24:14 infrastructure investment, policy investment or policy decisions, things along the lines
00:24:19 of either using marketing as a controlling measure or as a promotional measure, those
00:24:24 types of things.
00:24:26 We're also looking at how do we disperse?
00:24:28 So a key part of our strategy is dispersal, taking tourism business from one area and
00:24:34 dispersing it to another.
00:24:36 A really good example might be the Isle of Skye in Scotland, where the Isle of Skye was
00:24:41 heavily toured and went to a very good system of kind of capacity management, time ticketing
00:24:47 and the such.
00:24:48 But the Isle of Harris, where Harris Tweed is made and actually now has a gin factory
00:24:53 that reaps seaweed out of the ocean to finish off the gin.
00:24:56 It's a wonderful product.
00:24:58 Right there on the same plot as the Harris Tweed factory, the Isle of Harris has capacity.
00:25:03 So what can we as Visit Britain do to A, promote the Isle of Harris, B, make sure that the
00:25:08 final mile to get to the Isle of Harris is there and make sure that that destination
00:25:12 is now part of the zeitgeist of travelers when they're thinking about what to do in
00:25:16 Great Britain?
00:25:17 And then lastly, when it comes to controlling measures versus promotional measures, I would
00:25:22 submit to you that there's a place in Great Britain and England called Abrey.
00:25:26 It is one of two prehistoric sites.
00:25:29 The other prehistoric site is Stonehenge.
00:25:32 Now I would bet your audience that they haven't heard of Abrey and that's because Abrey has
00:25:36 purposely not been promoted as a destination for international tourism.
00:25:40 It has been more thought of by those that look after it as a place that wants to be
00:25:45 preserved, historic and managed from a capacity standpoint.
00:25:49 So I think that there's some good examples out there that we can use in terms of the
00:25:53 role that we can play and not look at ourselves just as sort of promotional in nature or driving
00:26:00 the volume.
00:26:01 It's more about how do we capacity manage, how do we look at our destination smartly
00:26:05 and think about gap analysis and ways that we can fill those gaps to make tourism flow
00:26:10 more like water and be frictionless throughout the whole of the UK and of course, any destination
00:26:15 that you're working with.
00:26:16 Just following up on your comments around dispersal and being able to create more sustainable
00:26:24 movement of people to different locations so that any particular destination is not
00:26:29 overburdened.
00:26:30 I can imagine though when stakeholders hear some of that and say, "Well, we're going
00:26:38 to take people away from your place and move them over here," that there is going to
00:26:43 be some blowback to that and some friction.
00:26:46 Is that the case for destinations out there that are facing some of the same strategic
00:26:53 choices that you're facing?
00:26:55 How do you deal with those limits when you're talking to a partner about limiting their
00:27:02 growth because of the reasons you're giving?
00:27:06 How do those conversations work and what's been effective in your experience and what
00:27:11 shouldn't we be doing when it comes to those conversations?
00:27:14 Are there landmines that we should be avoiding?
00:27:16 Yeah.
00:27:17 No, I don't think it's necessarily the conversation about limiting someone's growth.
00:27:22 The concept is that the private sector will eventually figure out where the resources
00:27:28 are that can be exploited to drive volume tourism.
00:27:32 You see hotel development go into areas where there's obviously high traffic and that creates
00:27:36 even more volume tourism.
00:27:39 If you can work with your various sectors like hotel partners, create incentives throughout
00:27:42 the rest of the UK to cause other destinations to have similar types of development, then
00:27:50 you're in a good conversation.
00:27:51 Tour operators, as an example, would mainly focus on one particular destination.
00:27:57 If it was a destination that sold the easiest, where we can have influence is we can actually
00:28:01 go to the tour operator and say, "Listen, this is our strategy.
00:28:03 Our strategy around dispersal, around sustainability.
00:28:06 We'd like you to carry UK, Great Britain product that is along those lines.
00:28:11 If you do, we'll support you.
00:28:12 We'll support you in promotion.
00:28:14 We'll support you in campaign work.
00:28:17 We will support you from a standpoint on the ground."
00:28:20 Promoting product development is another way to do that.
00:28:22 You've seen efforts along the lines of tourism zones or T-Bids, tourism business improvement
00:28:28 districts and so on and so forth.
00:28:30 The industry has been doing things along these lines, some better than others, when it comes
00:28:35 to how do you incentivize really the tourism and how do you make like tourism products
00:28:40 more accessible and basically cause those to be the products that are chosen?
00:28:47 Because people now, it has really drifted, Joe, from being just a supply side situation
00:28:52 where we're talking about wanting people to go to other parts of the country for our own
00:28:56 self-interest.
00:28:57 It's now part of the demand side.
00:28:59 You have the likes of a major tour operator like Intrepid or a tour company like Gate
00:29:03 One, who are carrying sustainable products because it makes business sense to do so.
00:29:09 Therefore, then those will cause dispersal to happen, create a better experience for
00:29:12 guests along the way, and those will create the memories that we want people to have.
00:29:17 Lastly, just in terms of that, the DMOs and the NTOs across the world are really conscious
00:29:24 that over-tourism can quickly turn into anti-tourism and negative sentiment around tourism.
00:29:31 We have to be conscious of this because anti-tourism, over-tourism as it were, is not a good thing
00:29:37 for not only the planet, but also for the guest experience and obviously not good for
00:29:42 business.
00:29:43 Thanks for bringing that up because I think Denise mentioned this about net positive impact.
00:29:52 Help just unpack that definition for us, Denise.
00:29:55 When you say net positive impact, we at Afar talk a lot about the ways to minimize harm
00:30:05 for the planet, but there's things that you can do as a traveler when you come with the
00:30:10 right mindset, the right values, the right approach that can have a lot of positive impact
00:30:17 on local communities and the like.
00:30:20 How do you define net positive impact and what does that look like when rubber meets
00:30:27 the road?
00:30:29 I think it's part of it is that net negative impact, if you will, sort of the being neutral.
00:30:35 Again, back to my floor comment, that that's the floor.
00:30:38 We need to make sure that we're at minimum doing that.
00:30:41 Net positive is the positive contribution in various ways, whether it's to the planet.
00:30:47 From a carbon perspective, you're talking about the half or one third or whatever it
00:30:50 is, whatever share of sustainability carbon is, that's part of it.
00:30:56 But then you're also talking about the human side of it.
00:30:58 From a social perspective, what are you providing in the communities where you're operating,
00:31:02 whether you're a tour operator or the hotel or the airline or whatever it may be, what
00:31:07 are you putting back into that community so that it's better off than when you first got
00:31:12 there, when you first hit it?
00:31:14 Did I lose you guys?
00:31:17 No, you got us.
00:31:19 Sorry, just froze for a sec.
00:31:22 Just putting back into the communities that we operate.
00:31:24 We are dependent on these communities for our own business of survival, whether you're
00:31:28 the airline moving people in and out, whether you're the tour operator or the transport
00:31:35 or whatever it may be.
00:31:37 Just having the full lens of the ecosystem that you are part of, and not just trying
00:31:42 to do the bare minimum in terms of the negative impacts, but really being additive.
00:31:47 Are you creating a better place for tourists, for employees, for the community than it first
00:31:54 was?
00:31:55 I think this is a journey, specifically the collaboration that I was referencing under
00:31:59 Sustainable Hospitality Alliance.
00:32:00 We're still working through the logistics.
00:32:03 What does each of these pillars mean?
00:32:04 WTTC is going to be involved in the base efforts.
00:32:08 What are all the elements that really we want to try to get all hotels minimum doing these
00:32:12 things?
00:32:13 But then ultimately, as you're looking through, it's not just net zero.
00:32:16 It's all of these pieces added up together that in the end, as we create this space of
00:32:23 net positive hospitality, we're really ensuring that we are a positive and impactful element
00:32:30 to the communities that we are part of so that we aren't seen as tourism as the negative
00:32:35 draw on communities, but instead helping those communities flourish and grow.
00:32:39 I want to stay on the human side of sustainability.
00:32:43 I think there is a conversation we talk about the messaging and how we actually message
00:32:48 a lot of this work.
00:32:49 But when it comes to Denise, as you think about initiatives that you're particularly
00:32:56 proud of and that you would hope that other companies would adopt or steal your playbook
00:33:05 on, what are some of the things and some of the work that you've been a part of when it
00:33:09 comes to the human side of sustainability, really impacting local communities and places
00:33:15 where Marriott operates that you can share with this group that they might be able to
00:33:21 replicate?
00:33:22 Sure.
00:33:23 I've got a couple of quick examples.
00:33:25 One is on the human rights and human trafficking.
00:33:27 It's a real area of focus for us.
00:33:29 And as the sector, it's also a real negative impact if you think about it, right?
00:33:33 There's a lot that happens in terms of human trafficking through our destinations around
00:33:38 the world.
00:33:39 And so thinking about what is our role to do that, one of the things is that, and we're
00:33:43 now in our second iteration of developing human trafficking awareness training for hotels.
00:33:49 And we made that initially for Marriott Associates, but turned it over to share with the sector,
00:33:54 right?
00:33:55 This is, again, not something that should be proprietary to our company, but instead
00:33:59 be leveraged across as many people as we can to make sure that we have that many more sets
00:34:04 of eyes focusing on this topic.
00:34:06 And so we've done an initial one a few years ago, and then I think in the near future,
00:34:12 there will be a second iteration of that for sharing.
00:34:15 I think the other area is around youth employment.
00:34:17 Again, I think really ensuring that we are, especially these days, we have such a shortage
00:34:22 of amazing talent wanting to work for our sectors, right?
00:34:25 And so how do we help energize and engage the next generation to recognize the value
00:34:30 and interesting world that we live in and the variety of roles within the big umbrella
00:34:36 of travel and tourism that they can be part of.
00:34:39 And this is looking at disadvantaged youth, diverse populations around the world.
00:34:44 You do not, this is one of the most amazing things about our sector is you don't have
00:34:47 to have an upper, higher level degree to be able to be part of the sector.
00:34:51 We'd have so many examples of individuals who didn't have that as part of their start,
00:34:55 and they've worked their way through the organizations and companies to be able to have leadership
00:34:59 positions in hospitality, in travel and tourism, without that initial base degree, which is
00:35:04 a limitation for a lot of other entry positions.
00:35:08 And then the third thing I think I'll say is that around the efforts around kind of
00:35:14 really investing in natural capital, right?
00:35:15 So from whether it be working with mangrove restoration in Thailand, or previously we
00:35:22 did a lot of work in China with restoration and protection of freshwater sources, or one
00:35:27 of the big projects we're working on right now with a nonprofit organization is on the
00:35:31 sargassum in the Caribbean, the sargassum seaweed, which is kind of a pretty significant
00:35:36 nuisance, if you will, in a lot of Caribbean beaches, but managing to work with subsistence
00:35:41 farmers to be able to harvest that, turn it into nutrients, and then embed it, carbon
00:35:47 kind of embedding within their farms so that they can grow more food in one year, they
00:35:53 doubled their yield so that they can go from subsistence farmers to actually creating revenues
00:35:57 to feed their families and create opportunities beyond.
00:36:01 So again, investing in those natural communities and impacting, you know, whether it's by market
00:36:06 or regions, some of those things, both on the social and environmental, I think there's
00:36:09 just huge opportunities and the downstream effects.
00:36:12 If you do an environmental project, it doesn't just benefit the environment, it benefits
00:36:17 the communities, benefits associates are part of it, guests who are engaging in it, and
00:36:21 so on.
00:36:22 Thank you.
00:36:23 And we're going to stay on this, Darrell, I'm going to ask you the same question.
00:36:26 I'm seeing questions come up from attendees that are really interested in focusing on
00:36:31 this human side of sustainability and making sure that we've got the right measurements
00:36:37 and standards in place to truly assess the progress or lack thereof that we have on this.
00:36:43 I mean, with your Intrepid add on, I mean, you started this business, you know, a while
00:36:47 back, it's one of the bigger tour operators in the world.
00:36:50 The values of DNA that you started with were all around sustainability and taking care
00:36:57 of the communities in which you operate, as you kind of reflect back on the time that
00:37:02 Intrepid's been in existence.
00:37:04 What are some of the projects, old or current, that the team at Intrepid is really working
00:37:10 on that you would love other tour operators to steal from you and replicate?
00:37:17 Yeah, absolutely.
00:37:18 And, you know, it does go back a long way, kind of for us.
00:37:23 And, you know, to be perfectly honest, we got into it almost by accident because most
00:37:27 of what we did is, you know, travelling through pretty remote communities.
00:37:33 And we just kind of saw a need that there's a health need or an education need or whatever.
00:37:37 And so we started to assist local communities.
00:37:39 So it didn't really come from anywhere else.
00:37:43 It was an accident.
00:37:44 But as time's gone on, what we realised was that apart from the, you know, the cash donations
00:37:51 or the effort or whatever it was, it was a really incredible way to engage our travellers.
00:37:57 And so, in fact, the more we got involved in sustainability issues, be that carbon or
00:38:02 be that human rights or whatever, the more our travellers would support us and they would
00:38:06 come back again and again and they'd tell their friends.
00:38:10 And so rather than being a cost to the business, it was actually a net benefit to the business.
00:38:15 And as it became a virtuous cycle, and so from purely with my CEO hat on, if you like,
00:38:20 I kind of thought, gee whiz, there's something in this, we better keep doing more of it.
00:38:24 And so we have.
00:38:25 And, you know, I think to Denise's point, we've now realised that, you know, it's not
00:38:32 just about us as a tour operator or even our clients or even our destinations, but it's
00:38:37 how can we help to build systemic change.
00:38:41 And that's where I think this whole thing around collaboration is so important and open
00:38:45 source documentation.
00:38:46 So, you know, that work that Marriott did, which they effectively open sourced it so
00:38:51 that other hoteliers can do it, you know, can adopt best practice principles in a pre-competitive
00:38:57 way is the way to go.
00:38:59 We just launched, I think it's a 38 page document on decarbonisation for tour operators.
00:39:06 Now, I dare say most people on this call will not want to download it because it is pretty
00:39:10 geeky.
00:39:11 However, if you're a sustainability person at a tour operator, you'll probably chop off
00:39:16 your right arm to do it because it's going to make it easy for you to decarbonise.
00:39:21 And I think leading organisations really have to step up and say, well, if we know something
00:39:26 about it, let's share it.
00:39:28 And just to go back a little bit around the importance of travel, you know, because I
00:39:33 think, you know, sometimes we do concentrate on the negative.
00:39:37 And yes, there are definitely negatives associated with tourism, but the positives are also huge.
00:39:44 And I think whilst we can maximise those positives already, they're really pretty massive.
00:39:50 And you know, one of them, if you just think about the impacts of employment, about one
00:39:54 in 10 jobs globally is in the travel and tourism industry.
00:40:00 Now that's incredible.
00:40:01 And even more than that, in the last 10 years, one in four jobs globally was created by the
00:40:08 travel and tourism sector.
00:40:09 And this is data that's been produced by Oxford Economics.
00:40:12 So, you know, it's real numbers.
00:40:14 And you know, most or a lot of those jobs are created in developing countries where
00:40:20 you're taking people with relatively little skill sets and you're giving them really meaningful
00:40:27 jobs in, you know, front of house or in restaurants or cleaning rooms or whatever.
00:40:32 And you know, I think sometimes as travellers we kind of think, oh gee, perhaps they're
00:40:35 not paid very well.
00:40:36 Well, let me tell you, the average wage from the tourism industry is far higher than the
00:40:42 wage that it previously was.
00:40:45 You know, you think if you're a farmer, you're in many countries, you're only earning two,
00:40:49 three, four dollars a day.
00:40:51 There's no one in the travel industry that only earns two, three, four dollars a day.
00:40:54 It's a multiple of that.
00:40:57 And so that just really, it's like a, I always think of it as like almost a positive taxation.
00:41:01 You know, none of us really want to pay tax, but we'll happily pay for holidays.
00:41:06 And yet that holiday really is like a massive redistribution of wealth from first world
00:41:10 countries to developing countries.
00:41:12 And you know, that's pretty cool.
00:41:13 And I think we in the industry, we probably should be a little bit more proud of that
00:41:16 because it really, it does lift people out of poverty and in turn creates communication
00:41:22 between guests and local people.
00:41:25 And that builds trust, it builds understanding, it breaks down barriers of hatred.
00:41:31 So I really believe in the peace dividend, if you like, from tourism.
00:41:35 So sure, you know, I'll always bang on about intrepid and the kind of tourism we do, but
00:41:40 realistically at a high level, you know, all things being equal, tourism is a great thing
00:41:45 for the world.
00:41:46 And yes, we can get better.
00:41:47 And yes, we do have to get better in certain areas.
00:41:50 But let's not cut our risks too much.
00:41:52 Yeah, well, you know, I mean, this kind of comes at a natural segue into, you know, talking
00:41:58 about media and messaging and the way that media covers this.
00:42:02 And obviously, it's a lot easier for journalists to cover something that's about loss, because
00:42:10 it's more people who click on it.
00:42:12 You don't use the articles about, you know, how, you know, we stopped a terrorist event
00:42:17 or we stopped a mangrove forest from swamp from becoming, from not, you know, from losing
00:42:24 that.
00:42:25 It's always about the thing that went away.
00:42:28 And, you know, I see a lot of sensationalism, you know, even in the Financial Times where
00:42:33 it's like we're either going to adapt or die, you know.
00:42:36 So these are very extreme messages that put, I think, consumers in this kind of weird position.
00:42:44 And I'm just curious from all of you, maybe Gavin, start with you.
00:42:48 What you know, what are in your perspective, kind of the biggest issues with media coverage
00:42:54 today?
00:42:55 Like, what does it the media quite get yet that they they should?
00:42:59 And, you know, is the narrative, you know, like adapt or die the right one?
00:43:07 Or what are messages that that resonate?
00:43:09 Well, I mean, I think I mean, I think Darrell might say in his own way that Bob's your uncle.
00:43:15 I mean, he said it all right there with that with that particular comment that he just
00:43:19 came in about how tourism is a force for good and a force for peace.
00:43:22 But I do think that there's there is some pressure being applied to the industry that's
00:43:27 healthy when it comes to talks of mitigation.
00:43:31 You know, it was maybe five years ago, if you talked about anything around adaptation,
00:43:37 it was kind of a dirty word and it was all about mitigation.
00:43:40 We shouldn't be talking about adaptation.
00:43:41 We should be talking about mitigation.
00:43:42 I think there's now been a nexus between those two conversations.
00:43:47 And it is important to have both measures in place to think about how do we reduce carbon
00:43:51 emissions?
00:43:52 How do we how do we do things more sustainably, economically, socially, environmentally?
00:43:56 And at the same time, how do we adapt?
00:43:58 I mean, I've even hearing things about sort of ways that with use of technology, we can
00:44:03 capture carbon emissions.
00:44:04 I sent my CMO last week to a meeting with Boom Supersonic.
00:44:09 Has anyone heard of Boom?
00:44:11 So it's a really exciting it's an airline manufacturer.
00:44:14 So it's like Boeing or Airbus.
00:44:16 And they have they've got the sustainable air fuels that they're talking about using
00:44:22 when they deploy their fleet in twenty twenty nine and orders are already in from United
00:44:25 and other other legacy carriers.
00:44:27 And this is biofuel.
00:44:28 I mean, I read on their website something about 100 percent biofuels or SAF, maybe not
00:44:34 biofuel, but SAF.
00:44:36 And so there's exciting there's a lot of exciting work going on here.
00:44:39 And short of beaming ourself like it was done in Star Trek years ago.
00:44:44 I mean, we are going to have a demand for travel.
00:44:47 We need to do the best we can with it.
00:44:49 And I do think that there's ways that we as an industry, it's good that the media may
00:44:53 be putting some pressure on us to say, what are you doing?
00:44:56 How fast are you doing?
00:44:57 What can you do to accelerate your growth?
00:45:00 And for us, we're fully down with that.
00:45:02 We as as as visit Britain and as the British government, you know, we are leading on things
00:45:07 like wind and on electric vehicles and even the black cabs.
00:45:11 I was in a black cab last week.
00:45:13 And I think it's within a few years that the black cabs in London will have to be electric.
00:45:18 There will be no more diesel black cabs in London allowed.
00:45:22 They will not be issued licenses.
00:45:24 So this is all very positive stuff.
00:45:27 And I think it's the right direction for us to be going.
00:45:29 And yes, I do think the media likes to focus on things that are negative.
00:45:33 But just one quick story in terms of where I've seen something really positive happen.
00:45:38 And this is not about Britain, but this is about something that really impacted me.
00:45:42 There is a group that I worked with a previous job called Responsible Travel.
00:45:46 And one of their editors went on a tour in Africa and was part of this tour where the
00:45:51 Maasai warriors did their dance and so on and so forth as as a show for those that were
00:45:56 on the tour.
00:45:57 And then at the end, she noticed that they were all just trying to sell trinkets and
00:46:01 things like this.
00:46:02 You know, that was that was almost a desperate attempt to sell trinkets.
00:46:05 And so she actually broke from the tour to the next destination, stayed on and started
00:46:10 talking to them about why is it that you're selling it with a translator?
00:46:14 Of course, why is it you're so desperate to sell trinkets?
00:46:16 Well, it's because the tour operator was giving them nothing to do their native dance.
00:46:21 And so what she did then was she stayed on in that area.
00:46:25 And as part of her mission with Responsible Travel, she started to weave in the Maasai
00:46:30 warrior native dance into the tour itineraries with a paid component and then train people
00:46:37 along the other tribes along the way that were also doing similar things.
00:46:41 And now you'll see that the only way that you'll be able to have that experience is
00:46:45 if the indigenous population is benefiting as well.
00:46:48 So we can make a difference.
00:46:50 We can actually as an industry, understand how we can benefit people's lives and not
00:46:55 be exploitative in nature, actually be part of the solution.
00:46:59 Part of this is, thanks for that example, I mean, is really figuring out and finding
00:47:04 ways to empower the consumer as well, right, and getting them to ask the questions that
00:47:09 they need to be asking to ensure this and same with travel advisors too.
00:47:14 So I want to get into that before we do just quickly, Denise, just from your perspective,
00:47:20 what have been messages that have resonated internally at Marriott as you try to push
00:47:25 your initiatives forward?
00:47:26 What have you seen resonate in the marketplace with travelers when it comes to sustainability?
00:47:32 What are the, just for the audience, as they think about crafting and honing their marketing
00:47:39 messages and integrating their values into their marketing, what have you seen work?
00:47:45 Yeah, happy to address.
00:47:47 I think one thing that's really interesting, Joe, that I learned when I started working
00:47:50 with our media team many, many years ago was the kind of the stripping out in media of
00:47:57 sustainability or environmental reporters as an example.
00:48:01 So that this idea of that, this, these topics sort of dwindled away for a long time in terms
00:48:06 of interest to the readers.
00:48:08 And so there weren't people in, you know, in the media space really like looking for
00:48:12 and wanting to communicate on this far aside.
00:48:15 Right.
00:48:16 But I think that that, that change and that pivot, I think is really invaluable because
00:48:20 as you get people who are really reading and understanding these various spaces, then they're
00:48:25 getting more interested, excited to have the conversations and to be able to put pieces
00:48:30 together that aren't just adapt or die kind of pieces, but instead really getting underneath
00:48:35 it.
00:48:36 And so that's one of the areas I think, you know, for a long time over the last many years,
00:48:38 you know, single use plastics have continued to be of interest to both the writers and
00:48:43 the readers.
00:48:44 I think in general, I would say like a lot of the topics that are getting a lot of interest
00:48:48 from media are things that really can touch that consumer.
00:48:52 So tying back to the book consumer, what consumers need and want versus, and it really is getting
00:48:57 pulled down from the media piece as well.
00:49:00 I think food waste has grown tremendously in terms of an area of focus.
00:49:04 And we're really been really excited to talk to anyone who wants to talk about that because
00:49:09 we we made a pretty significant commitment in 2017 when we rolled out our sustainability
00:49:14 and social impact platform to commit to having our food waste by 2025.
00:49:19 And I can tell you with all honesty, because I was, you know, the leadership team that
00:49:23 developed this is we had no idea how we're going to get there.
00:49:25 And so this idea of, we know we want to put a stake in the ground, it's really important
00:49:29 to put the stake in the ground, but we've got a lot of work to figure it out between
00:49:32 here and there.
00:49:33 I think both resonates with consumers as well as with the media in terms of a topic of interest,
00:49:38 because it's so new and so different, and it's starting to bring a lot of this to light.
00:49:42 So with the pandemic, so many people now started to talk about food scarcity and food waste
00:49:48 and some of these topics.
00:49:49 So it's becoming more commonplace for people to understand, oh, this is an issue.
00:49:54 And then kind of in our own worlds, and whether it's our sector or holistically around people
00:49:58 wanting to kind of write more and read more about that topic.
00:50:02 But I think the most impactful elements and messages are really those that you can translate
00:50:06 whatever that message is into an action, right?
00:50:08 If every person that reads something gets one thing that they can do after they read
00:50:14 that thing or see some story or whatever it may be, that's where we need to start driving
00:50:19 for.
00:50:20 That's the messaging that we need to transform instead of just a nice to read stories, what
00:50:24 can I do today?
00:50:25 Right?
00:50:26 Not just a go save the planet kind of pathway, but really that tactile decision for today
00:50:33 that really is going to make a difference for every single one of us and our communities
00:50:37 and so on.
00:50:38 So I think that's a real important transition, both as consumers, as well as the media to
00:50:42 really help form those kind of conversations and really get people to think about what
00:50:47 it is that they can or should be doing to change their behavior today.
00:50:50 I love that.
00:50:51 I love the idea of tangible takeaways that consumers can put into action when I think
00:50:59 a lot of the news and things they read when it comes to sustainability, the question that
00:51:04 naturally comes up is like, oh my gosh, how can I really make a difference here?
00:51:08 What can I do?
00:51:09 And I feel like you can't.
00:51:11 And so you're just like, well, not going to do it.
00:51:15 So I think that's awesome.
00:51:17 And then also this focus, what I heard you say, Denise, is for audiences really focusing
00:51:22 on specific initiatives, things that align with the values of the organization that you're
00:51:31 committed to and that you think the audience will be committed to.
00:51:35 And the more specific that I think that conversation around that, the easier it is for people to
00:51:42 really wrap their hands around it or their hearts around it and decide, is that for me?
00:51:46 Or maybe I can go to something that's different, but still under this huge umbrella.
00:51:52 And I want to talk-
00:51:55 Make it easier.
00:51:56 Yeah, sorry.
00:51:57 Just makes it easier to have a tangible action on the end of that.
00:51:59 If it's like the big broad beast of like, oh, the world is falling apart, it's really
00:52:04 hard to be able to say, well, what do I do?
00:52:05 To your point, what do I do about it?
00:52:07 Well, but if it's on a topic of interest and then you kind of go deep into that topic,
00:52:11 then ultimately there's more opportunity for an actionable thing at the end related to
00:52:15 that one thing.
00:52:16 And this whole idea of just taking one step, right?
00:52:19 Just doing one thing today and like building that into your lives and whatever that is.
00:52:23 And so anyway.
00:52:24 And feeling like you don't have to do all the things because we as human beings can't
00:52:29 do all the things.
00:52:30 But if we all pick the things under this sustainability umbrella that is important to us, collectively,
00:52:37 we will be doing all the things.
00:52:39 And for those out there that want to get a better sense of what that sustainability umbrella
00:52:43 is, I encourage you to go and Google sustainable development goals of the United Nations.
00:52:49 You can see what they're doing there to kind of address the definition of it.
00:52:54 You can go to the GSTC and see Global Sustainable Tourism Council and see all the great work
00:53:00 that they've done around their standards for industry, destinations, tour operators, hotels
00:53:06 and the like that really help lay it out for them.
00:53:09 I want to quickly get into, we got about five minutes left before we wrap this, certification
00:53:17 and the role that certification plays at hotels.
00:53:20 And Daryl, I just saw the announcement from Bookie.com about their sustainable travel
00:53:25 badge.
00:53:26 I believe Travelist had some work to role to play into this.
00:53:31 Just curious what your role at Travelist has been and partnership with Bookie.
00:53:38 What's the news that came out this week that they're excited about?
00:53:42 Yeah, so first of all, Travelist probably is not known to quite a lot of people, but
00:53:48 it's a coalition that started about two and a half years ago and it's the big online travel
00:53:53 agent platform.
00:53:54 So it started off with Bookie.com, TripAdvisor, Trip.com, Visa, and then recently we were
00:54:01 joined by Google.
00:54:03 And to use the booking example you're referring to, what Travelist has done is with booking
00:54:09 has designed 32 attributes for version one that are sustainability things that are clear
00:54:17 measures that a hotel either does do or does not do.
00:54:20 So it might have those little bottles of shampoo in the shower, or it might not, for instance.
00:54:26 It might use single use plastics in the restaurant, or it might not.
00:54:29 It might use renewable power, or it might not.
00:54:32 It might use lid light bulbs, et cetera, et cetera.
00:54:36 And so what the database does that we've constructed is that it basically creates an algorithm
00:54:41 of benefit, and then certain hotels will get a sustainability label on the top of their
00:54:48 score.
00:54:49 So when you look at a particular hotel and you can see how big the room is and whether
00:54:53 it's got a pool, you'll also see the sustainability label.
00:54:56 And that's just a very, very simple way of saying all things being equal, this hotel
00:55:02 is doing a lot more than the other hotel who isn't doing that measure.
00:55:06 And so for a customer, it just means that kind of reassurance that, hey, this hotel
00:55:11 is pretty good operators.
00:55:12 They're making an effort.
00:55:13 And I think sometimes sustainability is incredibly hard, and it's quite geeky.
00:55:18 There's a lot of detail.
00:55:20 And in fact, there has to be a lot of detail.
00:55:23 But I think our job in the industry, and perhaps yours in the media too, Joe, is really to
00:55:28 simplify that for customers so that they can make decisions relatively easily that have
00:55:35 a positive impact.
00:55:36 And so, yeah, that's what it's all about.
00:55:38 Yeah, one of our first editors told us that we have to take people through a front door
00:55:43 that they understand and feel comfortable with so you can take them out the side door
00:55:49 into the yard, into the garden, that you want to really show them.
00:55:53 Yeah, it's a journey.
00:55:55 And different hoteliers are at different stages of the journey.
00:55:58 Customers are, governments are, DMOs are.
00:56:02 And each one of those entities has to play its role where it can have impact.
00:56:08 But you've got to do it in a way that is quantifiable so that we know it is having impact, and then
00:56:13 communicable so that the traveler knows, oh, OK, I feel happy with that.
00:56:18 But it's not brainwashing.
00:56:19 We've got to be really careful that the method is solid because otherwise we're adding to
00:56:25 the problem, not kind of adding to the solution.
00:56:27 Denise, is this an initiative that Marriott Hotels are participating in?
00:56:33 Yes.
00:56:34 Yeah, we definitely are.
00:56:35 We've been working with Google and Booking.com under the Travelist world.
00:56:42 And we both helped formulate some of those criteria as well as are really excited to
00:56:46 be able to feed our hotel's content into those platforms because we really do need our travelers
00:56:53 to make better and better decisions as we go through.
00:56:56 And that's going to be a catalyst for driving change.
00:57:00 And in fact, the Sustainable Hospitality Alliance that Denise mentioned earlier are in really
00:57:07 great conversations with travelers to just systemize it, embed it, and so that almost
00:57:13 a customer doesn't have to worry about it too much.
00:57:16 It's done.
00:57:17 One piece that I wasn't as clear on when I was looking at the announcement was, and it
00:57:23 says it there, that these are independently verified.
00:57:28 Where does that independent verification actually take place?
00:57:32 Who's doing the independent verification, making sure that what the hotels are saying
00:57:37 is actually true?
00:57:39 So the methodology was verified, not necessarily the actual individual action.
00:57:45 But it is interesting.
00:57:46 One of the advantages of having Google on board is that they've got some pretty serious
00:57:50 engineering.
00:57:51 And so we can do some AI work that actually verifies a lot of this data.
00:57:56 So if a property does the wrong thing and ticks the wrong box in the name of trying
00:58:02 to get a score, they will be found out.
00:58:04 And increasingly, as the methodology gets more and more rigorous, which it will over
00:58:09 the next six to 12 months, there won't be any opportunity for greenwashing the system
00:58:15 or whatever you want to call it.
00:58:16 Gotcha.
00:58:17 Okay, well, we're at time.
00:58:18 So I want to ask one final question, more of a fun question, but as it pertains to our
00:58:26 messaging around sustainability.
00:58:29 If you had a billboard that you could put in Times Square or any famous square around
00:58:34 the world when it comes to sustainability, what would your message be?
00:58:41 Darrell, I'll start with you.
00:58:44 Yeah, I think time for blah, blah, blah is over.
00:58:48 Climate change is real.
00:58:49 It's urgent.
00:58:50 Do something today.
00:58:51 There you go.
00:58:52 How's that?
00:58:53 I love it.
00:58:54 Denise?
00:58:55 The planet will be just fine without us.
00:58:59 The question is, do we want to live equitable, healthy lives on it?
00:59:03 Wow.
00:59:04 I love that.
00:59:05 And Gavin?
00:59:06 Yeah, so I'll go a little Hemingway-esque here on this with six words.
00:59:12 So the first would be, I told you I was sick, which is, that's the planet speaking, of course.
00:59:17 And then I think lastly, a more positive note would be, take only footsteps, leave only
00:59:21 memory, or sorry, take only memories, leave only footsteps.
00:59:24 I think that's probably the message that I would give.
00:59:28 And Joe, yours?
00:59:29 I'd say, I actually, this is a quote from an author.
00:59:36 Just reading his book right now, I'm going to butcher his last name, but the name of
00:59:40 his book is Embers.
00:59:42 And in this book, he said something that just really resonates, which is, we live because
00:59:49 everyone else does, or everything else does.
00:59:51 We live because everything else does.
00:59:53 And I think the more that we see us being connected to each other, and not just human
00:59:59 to human, but human to plant, human to animal, human to rock, the more we realize the interconnectedness
01:00:06 of this, the easier it is for us to wrap our heads around what really sustainability truly
01:00:11 means.
01:00:12 So I'd say it's, we live because everything else does.
01:00:14 So with that said, I want to thank all of our panelists for your time and insights.
01:00:20 I want to thank the attendees who are listening.
01:00:23 It's an exciting time in travel right now.
01:00:26 It's exciting to finally be getting back out into the world and connecting with all of
01:00:30 you.
01:00:31 So I'm excited to see a lot of our friends and colleagues in the months ahead.
01:00:35 I know Greg and I will be at International Luxury Travel Mart in Cannes, December, I
01:00:41 think, fifth through the ninth for us.
01:00:43 So hopefully, if all of you are there, please reach out.
01:00:47 It'd be great to see you in person.
01:00:48 And we look forward to doing all of this important work together and continuing on this journey
01:00:54 that is one step at a time.
01:00:57 Great.
01:00:58 Thanks, everybody.
01:00:59 Thanks, everyone.
01:01:00 Thanks, everyone.