Unpacked Podcast S1: Podcast: The Truth About Travel and Accessibility

AFAR

In this episode of the podcast, Unpacked, by AFAR, we explore the topic of what it means to make travel more accessible, to all travelers.  Read more here: https://rebrand.ly/s6ru5ag Read more here: https://rebrand.ly/rg0zk53  Subscribe to Unpacked: ** Apple Podcasts ** https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/unpacked-by-afar/id1625156097  ** Megaphone ** https://megaphone.link/AFAR6756233083  ---- CONNECT WITH AFAR Afar.com is a digital and print magazine that publishes travel tips, guides, news, and stories: https://www.afar.com  Get updates on the latest articles, travel news, and more from AFAR by signing up for the AFAR newsletter: https://afar.com/newsletters  Follow AFAR on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AfarMedia Follow AFAR on Twitter: https://twitter.com/afarmedia Follow AFAR on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/afarmedia Follow AFAR on Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/afarmedia

Transcript

00:00 Hey, you're a thoughtful traveler and we're a thoughtful destination.

00:07 In Asheville, we treasure our natural and wild places here in the stunning Blue Ridge

00:11 Mountains, and we appreciate visitors who share our values of stewardship and sustainability.

00:16 We invite you to explore the cultural legacies shaped by these high mountain peaks.

00:21 Be our guest.

00:22 Together we can share adventures and preserve the natural beauty of Asheville.

00:27 Learn more at exploreasheville.com.

00:29 To me, accessible travel means being able to go somewhere and not have to face any sort

00:41 of doubt or problem with accessing excursions, activities, no barriers or concerns about

00:51 people stopping you, allowing you to decide what you are capable of doing.

00:57 Access looks different in different places.

00:59 If you can get folks to kind of understand in a sort of kind way that, hey, like for

01:04 me, I need to be able to touch things.

01:06 Tactile experiences are incredibly meaningful for me.

01:09 You can get creative and it takes a bit of finesse.

01:11 It takes work and it takes conversation.

01:15 Accessible travel is to me, not just about an environment that I can physically navigate,

01:21 although that's obviously crucial for me as a wheelchair user.

01:26 More than that, it's really about feeling welcome in my surroundings.

01:36 Welcome to Unpacked From Afar.

01:38 I'm your host, Kristina Anaki.

01:41 And today we'll be unpacking the question, how do we make travel accessible?

01:53 You just heard from three disabled travelers, Christine Grassman, Kevin Andrews, and Emily

01:58 Ledao about what accessible travel means to them.

02:02 It's about coming into physical spaces that are designed to meet the needs of their bodies

02:07 and their minds, whether that's a ramp, braille menus at a restaurant, a sign language

02:12 interpreter at a theater performance, or an encounter with someone in a new place who

02:16 is welcoming and open to learning about new ways of being.

02:21 In this episode, we'll dive deeper to unpack the word access, specifically what access

02:27 means for disabled people as they move around their communities in nature and around the

02:32 world.

02:33 I'm no stranger to this topic.

02:37 I have my own podcast called Down to the Struts.

02:40 It's about disability design and intersectionality.

02:44 I talk about things like access and inclusion with experts on topics like education, the

02:50 arts, migration, voting, the legal system, and much more.

02:56 According to the World Health Organization, approximately 1 billion people experience

03:01 some form of disability.

03:04 The UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities enumerates the rights of

03:09 disabled people across the world.

03:12 And those rights include the right to live independently and be included in the community,

03:17 the right to personal mobility, and the right to participate in cultural life, leisure,

03:22 and sport.

03:23 Despite these rights, we continue to live in a world that for the most part is not designed

03:29 with the needs of disabled people in mind.

03:31 A world where access remains elusive for so many, especially when it comes to leaving

03:36 our homes and exploring the places and spaces around us.

03:41 As a blind person, I've experienced these travel access barriers firsthand.

03:46 Here's an example from a story I developed and performed with Story District in Washington,

03:52 D.C. in March of 2020 about what it's like to be blind in an airport.

03:58 Being in an airport can really suck sometimes, right?

04:02 So you've got flight delays, being felt up by the TSA, but it can suck even harder to

04:11 be a blind person in an airport.

04:14 So you know, it's true.

04:18 There's been a lot of progress in terms of making the world more inclusive and designed

04:23 for blind people.

04:24 We have artificial intelligence, we've got text-to-speech, and yes, I can't wait, self-driving

04:31 cars.

04:34 But airports are still lagging a bit behind.

04:38 So we blind people often have to deal with well-meaning airport attendants who want to

04:47 help but often don't ask the blind person what they actually need to be helped.

04:56 So case in point, once I got in a screaming match with an airport attendant, he was trying

05:03 to force me to sit in a wheelchair.

05:07 Even when I insisted quite vehemently that that is not the best way to get me to the

05:13 gate.

05:14 This is just one of many mishaps and misunderstandings I've experienced as a disabled traveler.

05:21 And it's similar to stories I've heard across the disability community.

05:25 But there's so much that we can do to change the systems, structures, and attitudes that

05:30 have erected barriers between disabled people and the world around them.

05:35 Next we'll hear from Bonnie Amour, a writer who explores the intersections between race,

05:40 place, and power.

05:42 Bonnie peeled back the layers of complexity that converge when disabled people of color

05:47 cross the threshold of their homes to travel.

05:50 My name is Bonnie Amour.

05:51 I use they/them pronouns.

05:53 I'm here in Queens, this Matinecock, Canarsie, and Metsilenope land right now.

05:59 And I've always been writing.

06:01 I've always been traveling since I was very young.

06:04 And so I just eventually put them two together to have a job that fits my transient lifestyle.

06:11 Bonnie defines travel as any kind of movement, any kind of migration.

06:15 We're all kind of crossing and moving.

06:18 And almost all of us have travel kind of in our DNA, literally, in a lot of ways.

06:23 I don't, again, just think of travel as a leisurely thing.

06:28 I think when we only talk about travel in that way, it really robs us of having a larger

06:33 conversation about travel culture, power, and all these kinds of dynamics that clash

06:38 up against each other.

06:40 I asked Bonnie about how the design of physical spaces affects disabled people when it comes

06:47 to travel.

06:48 A lot of us live in inaccessible housing.

06:50 Like how do you even leave your place?

06:53 There's two steps to get, you know, out of and into my building.

06:56 With my wheelchair, it's impossible.

06:59 It's just a mess.

07:00 So literally going outside of our homes is just this political thing because we physically

07:06 can't do it a lot of the time.

07:09 So imagine leaving state and the country and all of these things.

07:14 Bonnie explained the challenges that disabled people encounter once they're able to problem

07:19 solve the initial hurdle of getting out the door and into the neighborhood or city where

07:23 they live, as well as the places and spaces that might be a flight or a train ride away.

07:29 My train station is two blocks away and it doesn't have an elevator.

07:32 So you know, going to Manhattan is a problem, like going to another place in New York City.

07:38 Air travel is so complicated for a lot of disabled people, especially if you're a wheelchair

07:44 user.

07:45 It's a really huge problem how airlines destroy wheelchairs all the time.

07:50 And the rules that are around disabled people getting out of flights, like it's a very dehumanizing

07:58 experience is that that actually leads to death.

08:01 And you can definitely look that up to see what people go through.

08:06 And for me, air travel is just this torturous experience that takes so much planning.

08:12 And then there's what happens after that.

08:14 Many of the barriers that Bonnie describes when it comes to accessible travel have very

08:19 real consequences for disabled people.

08:22 For example, according to reporting from the Washington Post, the largest U.S. airlines

08:27 damaged roughly 29 wheelchairs per day in 2019.

08:31 And that's the first full year of reporting to the government.

08:35 Wheelchairs are highly specialized and highly customized mobility devices.

08:40 And a damaged wheelchair can mean months of waiting for repair or replacement, not to

08:45 mention high costs for the user, depending on insurance coverage.

08:50 Having your wheelchair broken in route could leave you immobilized without a support system

08:54 in place.

08:55 Bonnie also talked about other social and economic barriers that disabled travelers,

09:01 especially BIPOC disabled travelers, encounter.

09:05 When it comes to affordability, when you're BIPOC, I mean, that's just a thing because

09:09 disability will impoverish you.

09:11 So it's like most of us are poor.

09:14 Most of us are on social services, specifically people who are like physically disabled.

09:19 And you know, you can lack support, which is a huge thing.

09:23 The affordability is the biggest thing.

09:26 So who's getting time off of work?

09:28 And the fact that a lot of us who are on Medicaid or other social services or SSI or disability

09:33 can't make a certain amount of money, you only get like a little bit.

09:37 And if you work or do something, you know, you can get in so much trouble and be kicked

09:42 off of your insurance, even getting the funds.

09:45 If you have that, like you're not supposed to make enough to be able to travel.

09:50 Layered on top of these financial challenges are the complexities of being Black, Indigenous,

09:55 people of color and disabled while traveling.

09:58 Being disabled, you know, you might not communicate yourself in a way that other people want you

10:04 to, and that could be strange, or maybe you are nonverbal, or maybe the way that people

10:10 kind of navigate social situations and communication can be from a very able perspective.

10:16 And just those small things, it really does kind of heighten policing for BIPOC, especially

10:22 Black people.

10:23 So really already having problems at the border, you're going to experience more of that oppression

10:31 trying to get into a place.

10:33 And you have so many stories of Black, Indigenous people who are from countries who have their

10:37 citizenship being told at the border, "We don't have Black people in Mexico," while

10:44 your friends, even of the same race, are just being let in.

10:48 And that's with a U.S. passport.

10:49 So when I'm talking about entering and leaving countries, all these borders, all these places

10:54 of transit are where power is really concentrated and stark.

10:59 You can see who is in what line, right, and all these things.

11:03 Whose passport allows you to do what?

11:05 So those are just kind of the ways that some of these things clash with each other and

11:11 increase barriers to access to even be able to leave.

11:16 And when you do, that experience is informed by those different oppressions.

11:22 When it comes to access, information is power.

11:25 Knowing what access barriers you might face allows you to be prepared and to creatively

11:30 problem-solve ahead of time.

11:32 Mayan Ziv describes how lack of information about accessibility really limited her ability

11:38 to fully participate in the world around her.

11:41 Mayan is the founder and CEO of AccessNow, an app that allows users to share information

11:48 about the access features of places like restaurants, hotels, museums, and other destinations around

11:54 the world.

11:55 Yeah, so I'm based in Toronto.

11:57 I've kind of lived here throughout my life.

12:00 I am a power wheelchair user.

12:03 I have always been someone who loves to travel, someone who's pretty adventurous and loves

12:08 to see new places.

12:10 Often when I'm showing up at spaces, whether they be indoor or outdoor, whether they be

12:15 in my own neighborhood or, you know, halfway around the world, I'm constantly facing barriers

12:21 when it comes to just being able to access a space with my wheelchair.

12:25 And you know, I was studying my master's of digital media at the time and just kind of

12:30 just obsessing over this problem in my own life.

12:34 And I just asked, you know, like, why aren't there more resources for people with disabilities?

12:40 You can get information about hours of operation and, you know, menus and reviews and all different

12:48 types of things, but yet you really can't easily find information about accessibility.

12:56 As a blind person, I often find myself hard pressed to find the accessibility information

13:02 that I need to plan new experiences.

13:05 For example, performance spaces often bury information about the availability of audio

13:10 description on the pages of their websites.

13:13 And it's not always clear whether a bike shop has tandem bikes available for rent,

13:19 but Mayim developed a handy solution for those types of problems that we'll talk about in

13:23 a bit.

13:24 In the meantime, another important aspect of travel and general wellbeing is the ability

13:30 to access the natural world.

13:32 As an avid runner, tandem cyclist, and rock climber, this is a kind of access that is

13:37 very close to my heart.

13:40 That's why I wanted to speak to Erica Rivers.

13:42 Erica is the executive director of Wilderness Inquiry.

13:46 They are a nonprofit that offers outdoor adventures for people of all ages, backgrounds, and abilities.

13:53 My name is Erica Rivers, and I really started my passion for the outdoors as a very young

14:00 person and then in my adult life became a conservation biologist.

14:05 And through my work at the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources, it really became clear

14:09 to me over my couple of decades of work that people really only conserve what they care

14:15 about and they only really care about things that they are connected to in a meaningful

14:20 way.

14:21 And so as a conservation biologist, I really changed my perspective and the direction of

14:27 my work to really focus on making those connections between people in the natural world.

14:33 In the course of her journey to lead Wilderness Inquiry, Erica was struck by the inequities

14:38 she observed when it comes to who is able to access nature and the overwhelming evidence

14:44 that having this access is a benefit to all.

14:48 What really also solidified my love of connecting people to the outdoors is really the recognition

14:53 in recent years that there really is a social justice component to connecting people to

14:57 the outdoors.

14:58 There's some 400 different empirical studies now that show the direct health, wellness,

15:06 and community connectivity properties of outdoor recreation.

15:10 And so we know that people's lives are frankly better when they spend time outdoors in multiple

15:15 ways.

15:16 And when people don't have equitable access to the outdoors, then there's a social justice

15:21 consequence on the quality of their life.

15:24 Are you inspired to travel in a more responsible way?

15:42 In Asheville, North Carolina, we believe in the power of ethical travel.

15:47 We care about the protection of our distinctive natural and cultural treasures in these Blue

15:51 Ridge Mountains.

15:53 And we appreciate visitors who share our values of stewardship and sustainability.

15:59 We know travel is transformational, and we invite you to be inspired by the creative

16:03 spirit and local flavors of our mountain home.

16:07 Be our guest.

16:08 Together, we can share adventures and preserve the natural beauty of Asheville so future

16:12 generations can enjoy these mountains for years to come.

16:17 Learn more at exploreasheville.com.

16:18 [MUSIC]

16:25 [MUSIC]

16:35 Despite all of the access barriers we've talked about, there are solutions that can

16:39 make travel less burdensome and more equitable for disabled people.

16:45 And centering access is more often than not a boon for those who are not disabled as much

16:50 as it is for those of us with disabilities.

16:53 I asked Bania Moore for their thoughts about how we can make travel more accessible, and

16:59 they laid out some of the key questions we should ask ourselves when creating physical

17:04 spaces or experiences to ensure that we're centering access.

17:09 In all of your spaces, literally, can people get in?

17:14 In all of your social media, can people actually read or hear what you're saying?

17:19 We need to have those image descriptions.

17:21 We need to have accessibility information on everything.

17:24 So if you're not thinking about these things, just have it in the front of your mind.

17:28 Oh, there should be an elevator at this train station.

17:30 Oh, there should be a ramp into this place.

17:32 Oh, if the bathroom is not accessible in this event, how can we get a port-a-potty that

17:37 is, et cetera.

17:39 You know, if you're going to have a travel meetup, like the restaurant itself, can people

17:43 come in?

17:45 That is a big thing.

17:46 And if it's not the case and you bring it up to the owners, like you can always report

17:49 ADA violations here in the U.S.

17:52 So learn how to do that.

17:53 That's very important.

17:54 It has to be done when it comes to reporting places so they can do better, so we can go

18:00 into those places.

18:01 Bania explains how providing access for others can bring about unintended benefits for everyone,

18:08 even when it's least expected.

18:10 The thing about accessibility is it always benefits everyone, all the time.

18:15 I'm not hard of hearing or deaf, but I have captions on everything, subtitles on everything.

18:20 It's just something I need.

18:21 That's just one thing.

18:22 Elderly people, pregnant people, you don't know what people are going through.

18:25 You know, a ramp is just great.

18:27 Like why not?

18:28 You know, or people could just be tired and like, you know, what's, there shouldn't be

18:32 any shame in taking an elevator over steps.

18:35 Bani also has some great tips for making events accessible.

18:39 Any kind of event you're going to have, virtual or not, accessibility information on a website

18:45 or online is extremely important because we have to reach out to people and be like, does

18:49 this have ASL?

18:51 If it's an outdoor kind of retreat, you know, is the ground level?

18:55 When it comes from here to the camping site, is there a step when it goes into the outhouse?

19:00 Don't assume first of all, what accessibility means and don't assume what disabled people

19:06 need when it comes to accommodations.

19:08 And even then a lot of people don't know exactly what it is, you know, how many inches a person

19:14 needs in a bathroom to be able to do a full turn in a wheelchair and bigger for power

19:18 chairs.

19:19 Always, it comes to hiring people, have someone on your team that's disabled or, you know,

19:24 contract someone to be like, Hey, just give us a training on just like all this stuff

19:27 because it can be a lot to do.

19:29 I'm disabled in specific ways.

19:31 That doesn't mean that I know what everyone needs and you're always learning.

19:35 When it comes to able people, it's really important for you to inquire as to access,

19:40 even if you don't have that need and you're going to a hotel or you're going to a restaurant

19:44 or you're going to an event, just ask them, okay, are you going to have that?

19:48 Are you going to have this?

19:50 And you should put this up.

19:52 As I mentioned earlier, Mayan Ziv developed an app to address some of the challenges that

19:58 Thani described.

19:59 I asked her about how the app works and how it's raised public consciousness about accessibility.

20:07 Access Now is a mobile app website that allows any person to search for a restaurant, a store,

20:15 a hotel, a park, any location really that you might find on a map and discover information

20:22 about the accessibility of that space.

20:25 We've got tags that cover things like automatic doors, elevators, ramps.

20:31 We also have tags that cover things like lighting levels, sound levels, and whether there are

20:36 digital menus or braille options, whether or not you can show up with your guide dog

20:41 and actually be welcomed as opposed to asked to leave or all of the things that different

20:48 people who have voiced their opinions on the platform have said matter to them.

20:53 And so really, you know, the power of Access Now comes from the collective power of the

20:58 crowd.

20:59 As the Access Now user base grows, Mayan notes some new twists in how it's being used and

21:05 what that might mean in terms of how we think about access and disability.

21:10 Access Now initially was inspired by my own experience as a wheelchair user and that,

21:16 you know, for the majority of the time, the people who are using Access Now app are people

21:21 with lived experience or, you know, friends, family members, colleagues, people who are

21:26 somewhat connected to someone who has a disability.

21:29 But increasingly so, we've also been hearing from people without disabilities who are learning

21:34 about how accessibility actually shows up in their lives.

21:38 So for example, we are increasingly hearing from parents with strollers that, you know,

21:43 the subway system or the train system is not fully accessible.

21:47 And although they never thought about it in the past, all of a sudden they've discovered

21:50 that accessibility is important to them.

21:53 Or we hear from people who sustain, you know, temporary injuries where, you know, now they've

21:58 got a scooter for a few weeks or their own crutches and they're looking for new features

22:03 in the built environment that, again, are hard to find.

22:07 And so I think, you know, that this concept of non-disabled versus disabled is really

22:12 something that we work hard to kind of blur the lines of.

22:15 Because whether you have a disability today or you'll have one in the future, every person

22:20 actually benefits from an accessible space because accessibility is what really helps

22:25 create inclusive experiences for people.

22:29 Erica Rivers and Wilderness Inquiry have similarly created a platform that is designed with access

22:35 at the core.

22:37 I asked Erica about what Wilderness Inquiry has to offer participants with disabilities

22:42 when it comes to experiencing the natural world.

22:46 Really we think that most places in the outdoors can be made accessible by either having the

22:51 right people, the right supports for the program, or the right equipment.

22:57 And you know, really our approach to it, it really, when you talk about the seven steps

23:00 of inclusive recreation, the very first part of that is starting with the assumption and

23:07 the respect for each person's dignity.

23:09 And so we approach each program seeing the whole person and what kinds of things that

23:14 person can do to meaningfully contribute to a group experience in the outdoors.

23:19 Our second major component of it is keeping open lines of communication, making sure that

23:24 we're setting up trips that are really robust in how we communicate.

23:28 And we do that by having pre-trip calls before the trip actually goes out to make sure that

23:33 we're understanding everybody's abilities and what they bring to the table and what

23:38 their needs are so that we can make sure they have a great trip.

23:41 And it also means checking in with regularity with the group members on those trips while

23:46 we're out in the field as well to make sure that they're having the optimal experiences

23:50 and their expectations are being met in an excellent way.

23:54 I wrapped up our conversations by asking Mayan, Erica, and Bonnie to share their vision of

24:00 a truly accessible world.

24:02 Here's Mayan on the practical and business incentives of designing with access in mind.

24:07 You know, I think for the longest time, accessibility has been seen as an afterthought.

24:14 It's always looked at, you know, as this niche issue where only a subsector of the population

24:22 and you know, really how many disabled people are going to show up or there's like these

24:27 comical situations where we'll engage with business owners and they'll say, oh, well,

24:31 we never bothered making our, you know, restaurant accessible because we don't have disabled

24:36 customers.

24:37 And it's like, until we recognize the value, you know, both on the pure profit front of,

24:44 you know, investing in an accessible space opens your doors to, you know, literally millions

24:50 of people that currently might not be able to access your business.

24:55 You know, we're talking of upwards of 20% of the population that has a disability.

25:00 You know, I think our goal is really about helping create that awareness for business

25:04 owners and definitely within the travel sector, you know, specifically people with disabilities

25:11 should have the equitable right to travel just like anyone else.

25:15 You know, it's one of the most amazing things that anyone has the opportunity to do.

25:19 And we want to make sure that just as someone who might not be disabled, can, you know,

25:25 access transportation, can access amenities and experiences that whether you have a disability

25:31 or you don't, that experience should be the same.

25:34 So our job is to connect with leaders in the travel sector, with business owners, with

25:40 hospitality, you know, and really make this message clear that not only is it the right

25:45 thing to do, the equitable thing to do, but it's also, you know, from an economic standpoint,

25:51 can open your business to upwards of $13 trillion a year in annual disposable income that this

25:57 community carries and is responsible for.

26:01 Erika says the possibilities of the natural world are all around us, including right in

26:06 our backyards.

26:08 What I find in the outdoor recreation system is, you know, you can go to a state or national

26:13 park and pieces of it are accessible.

26:15 The bathroom might be accessible, the parking lot, four miles of trail, these kinds of things.

26:21 And I envision a world where there are 72 hours of accessible recreation opportunity

26:30 in a place that's, you know, within 50 miles, let's say of a person's primary dwelling spot.

26:37 Wouldn't that be wonderful?

26:38 Wouldn't it be wonderful if a person could reliably go to a wild space that is, you know,

26:46 within 50 miles of their home and experience 72 hours of you can camp there and the campsite

26:54 is accessible.

26:55 You can use the restroom and it's accessible.

26:57 You can go down to the river and the kayak launch is accessible and you can go into the

27:03 visitor center and the exhibits there are accessible and you can spend an afternoon

27:09 there.

27:10 I think that what it takes is commitment from society to do that and to find ways to make

27:15 those spaces more accessible and more consistently accessible.

27:20 And finally, Bonnie reminds us that you don't need to look far to start thinking about access.

27:26 Just like increasing access and equality really in movement across the world for any marginalized

27:33 community, it starts at home.

27:35 We don't need to start thinking about these things when we leave because like I said,

27:38 whenever we leave the home, we're traveling, especially for disabled people, which is,

27:43 it's very complicated and there's so much that you need to take into account.

27:47 So it has to start at home.

27:50 Do you remember Kevin and Emily, the disabled travelers from the top of our episode?

27:54 I want to leave you with their final thoughts on access and travel.

27:58 People have vastly different experiences with disability from, you know, all the way to

28:04 no experience at all.

28:06 You couple that with, you know, people of different cultures, different backgrounds,

28:11 maybe those for whom English is not their first language.

28:14 So it's a sort of complex intersection.

28:18 And I think really just meeting those folks where they are and understanding and showing

28:25 kind of your level of humanity that like, hey, I'm a blind person, but I'm a person

28:30 with thoughts, hopes, dreams, a job, whatever.

28:33 So if you can connect with people on a human level, I think that's really, really important.

28:38 Sure.

28:39 I know that barriers pose an obvious obstacle, but unaccommodating attitudes are actually

28:44 an even bigger source of inaccessibility.

28:47 And it's always immediately clear to me when someone doesn't want me in their establishment

28:53 or when locals are somehow unsettled by my presence.

28:59 And I strongly believe that we can change this by shifting perceptions of disability,

29:06 by educating about disability, and by increasing understanding of disability as part of what

29:13 makes someone who they are, what makes any traveler who they are.

29:18 And that would be an immense source of progress in creating a more accessible travel industry

29:25 and really a more accessible world wherever people may want to go.

29:31 We've learned so much from the wisdom that Christine, Kevin, Emily, Bonnie, Mayan, and

29:36 Erica have shared about access and all of its contours.

29:40 Here are a few key takeaways.

29:43 Remember that race, place, and power affect access, especially for disabled people of

29:48 color.

29:49 And keep that in mind as you encounter people of all backgrounds and abilities in your travels.

29:56 Compassion and kindness can help us be more open to understanding the access needs of

30:00 those around us.

30:02 Access isn't just about modifying the built environment.

30:06 It's about making disabled people feel welcome and included in a space.

30:11 Listen to disabled people who are the experts of their own needs and experiences and challenge

30:17 your assumptions of what is possible when we create access to places and spaces.

30:24 Become an advocate for access.

30:25 When you go to a new place or attend an event, ask about the accessibility features.

30:30 If you don't see a ramp, demand that one be installed.

30:34 You can even report what you find in the Access Now app.

30:38 Learn more about disability experiences through media and culture.

30:42 The Disability Visibility Project created by Alice Wong is a great place to start.

30:48 You can find blog posts and interviews with members of the disability community at disabilityvisibilityproject.org.

30:55 Thanks so much for joining me on this episode of Unpacked.

31:00 You can learn more about me and the Down to the Struts team at downtothestruts.com.

31:05 Also check out the links in our show notes to learn more about our guests and their important

31:10 work.

31:12 Special thanks to Story District in Washington, D.C. for permission to share original audio

31:18 from their March 2020 show, She Comes First.

31:21 You can learn more about Story District by visiting storydistrict.org.

31:29 Ready for more unpacking?

31:31 Visit AFAR and be sure to follow Unpacked on Instagram and Twitter.

31:36 The magazine is at AFARmedia.

31:38 If you enjoyed today's exploration, I hope you'll come back for more great stories.

31:43 Subscribing makes this easy.

31:45 You can find Unpacked on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast platform.

31:51 And be sure to rate and review the show.

31:54 It helps other travelers find it.

31:56 This has been Unpacked, a production of AFAR Media and Boom Integrated.

32:01 The podcast is produced by Aislinn Green, Adrienne Glover, and Robin Lai.

32:07 Post-production by John Marshall Media staff, Jen Grossman, and Clint Rhodes.

32:13 Music and composition by Alan Koreshia.

32:16 And remember, the world is complicated.

32:19 Being an ethical traveler doesn't have to be.

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32:27 [BLANK_AUDIO]

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