LIVE Patriots Beat: Patriots coaching staff + GM updates
Catch the newest episode of Patriots Beat with Alex Barth of 98.5 The Sports Hub and Brian Hines from Pats Pulpit, where they discuss the New England Patriots current coaching staff under their new head coach Jerod Mayo. They also discuss the latest developments on the GM front.
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Transcript
00:00 Another live edition of the Patriots beat podcast right here on the CLNS media network
00:05 It is Brian Hines from Pat's pulpit joined as always by Alex Barth
00:08 From 98 5 the sports hub to get back into this Patriots coaching staff GM
00:14 Or lack there of GM and talk about all the stuff that's going on around the team right now because it was a pretty crazy
00:22 Weekend there were bullets getting fired from all these sides. There were a ton of reports
00:28 Looks like we have some
00:30 Makings of Gerard Mayo putting this coaching staff together with some of these interviews and then a lot of reports
00:36 about the GM or again lack there GM that might be coming in here with Gerard Mayo, but
00:42 Let's start with some of this more concrete stuff along the coaching staff because Gerard Mayo had his first
00:50 interview scheduled here with Panthers linebackers coach Tim
00:54 Lucca bar, you know how to say I think it's look a boo right look a boo. So
00:59 Panthers outside linebackers coach they scheduled an interview here for defensive coordinator the Patriots defensive coordinator position
01:07 He has some New England ties. He was the Boston College defensive coordinator for
01:12 From 2020 to 2022 before he went down to Carolina last year. I believe he also worked at URI early in his career and
01:20 He kind of came up under
01:23 Greg Shiano who as we all know is a close friend of Bill Belichick
01:28 So no direct Patriot ties, but some ties to the region similar coaching style
01:33 But he also got some different experience under these defensive minds like Lou Anorama and Cincinnati Robert Salah and San Francisco
01:42 So a guy who's pretty experienced pretty well traveled and coming in here to interview for this defensive coordinator spot
01:49 Yeah, interesting candidate like you said he's coached under a lot of notable defensive coaches and guys from different systems guys with different philosophies
01:56 So, you know comes in with a really diverse background
02:00 You look at Carolina last year, obviously disappointing season as a whole
02:03 But if they did have one bright spot
02:05 It was kind of that linebacker room with Brian Brian Burns like the hybrid defensive and linebacker
02:10 But you figure he worked with him at least a little bit a guy like Frankie Lou vu yet or gross motto. So
02:16 Definitely got with an interesting resume
02:18 I've said in the past that I would love to see them keep continuity on the defensive side of the ball and whether that's
02:24 Stephen Belichick who?
02:26 Albert Brewer reported the team extended an offer to to come back which I would imagine is for the defensive coordinator position
02:31 I don't see how he comes back in any other role whether it's Stephen Belichick or whether it's DeMarcus Covington. I
02:37 Would love to see them keep some continuity at house the defense coordinator spot now
02:43 if it is Steve or Steve goes elsewhere, you need new linebackers coach and maybe this is a
02:48 Situation where you talk to the Kabu? He's not your DC, but let's be honest. Carolina's getting a new coaching staff
02:55 He's probably he doesn't know what his job security is
02:58 Maybe he comes and he's the new linebackers coach under Mayo and Belichick or Mayo and Covington
03:02 That's kind of what I look at an interview like this is potentially setting up for kind of like that
03:07 Whole offensive coordinator search from last year where they're what they should have done with that. Yeah
03:12 Yeah, but they didn't end up doing which is like they bring an Adrian Clem the interview for the offensive coordinator spot
03:18 It's really like okay
03:20 Let's get this guy in and maybe and it opens the door for him to then join as the offensive line coach
03:25 So something like this is also
03:27 You know, they have to check off the Rooney rule for all these hires this does that so potentially you just get him in you'd imagine
03:34 He already has a relationship with Mayo from his time at BC. That's a place
03:38 You know, the New England staff is up there a good amount of time so they have familiarity with each other
03:42 but just get him in and see
03:45 What the past could potentially be if Steve or DeMarcus Covington, you know go elsewhere that rolls open or maybe just get him in here
03:53 As a linebackers coach as you just said because you're gonna need him, but I would say it's encouraging
03:59 That they're going outside kind of the tree, right?
04:03 We said there's some familiarity with the Greg Shiano, but like this isn't a guy who's coached in New England
04:08 And has just been groomed under Bill Belichick his entire career
04:13 So that was and we'll talk about the special teams guy here in a second
04:16 But that was one of the encouraging updates
04:18 I thought from the weekend is Mayo's kind of you know cast in his net here and willing to open things up a little bit
04:23 Yeah, let's let's see the offense side of the ball
04:25 I'm not not to you know, put anything against the Kabul or anything against what we've heard over there
04:31 I'm not saying any of its bad. I just
04:33 I'm not too worried about the defense side of the ball. They're gonna get that figured out
04:36 I I don't really think that I trust that everybody they're interviewing is qualified
04:40 What are they doing on the offensive side of the ball? That's what I want to see and there was the report that Josh McDaniels
04:45 There's some interest in maybe him returning what I would say about that. So the interviews are different but Josh McDaniels
04:50 Stephen Bryan Belichick the reports were that the Patriots may want them
04:55 Do they want the Patriots or are they gonna ultimately go with billers?
05:00 they're gonna be a bidding war there like these kind of interviews I think make a ton of sense, but
05:04 There I don't think that they're the focus right now writer. I don't think they should be the focus
05:10 That's not saying they can't do them. They do need to do them
05:12 but
05:14 Yeah, it's it's let's that's the thing to your point to your original point right about is encouraging to see this over the weekend
05:20 Like it's good to see
05:22 But I'm still waiting before I get all excited. I'm still waiting on the offensive coaching staff. Well, there was that report I
05:29 Believe was it Reese or Breer who had it that there will be a wide open search
05:35 I believe it was Albert Breer from sports. Oh, yeah this part
05:38 Wide open search for the next offensive coordinator. We know bill O'Brien is under contract still
05:45 Does he want to come back after kind of the dumpster fire?
05:48 That was last year and how does drawed Mayo think about him?
05:51 That will be kind of the first decision they have to make and then
05:55 It looks like they're going to really open this thing up for an offensive coordinator search
05:59 Which is what we wanted to see what we kind of wanted to see even at the head coach
06:03 Just to gather more Intel around the league and maybe try to find one of these next
06:07 Up-and-coming offensive guys to pair with maybe your first round pick at quarterback there. So
06:13 Kind of playing into that going outside
06:15 Looks like maybe they might be doing that at offensive coordinator and you know
06:20 Nick Kaylee's name was thrown out there who went it was obviously here got passed over for the offensive coordinator spot for Matt Patricia last year
06:28 Stay that's tight ends coach and then left to go coach tight ends in LA was Sean McVay. So he's got that experience
06:35 Now in that McVay Rams tree
06:38 Zach Robinson who's also been groomed under McVay draft pick here paired with Mayo
06:44 So those were some names we can get in some other names
06:47 But looks like maybe they will we haven't got any firm interviews or reports
06:52 But it looks like they may also be going out
06:54 outside the organization if Bill O'Brien decides to move on or they decide to move on from Bill O'Brien for this next offensive coordinator spot, which
07:01 Probably is drawn Mayo's most important hire at this point
07:06 Yeah, I agree with that 100%
07:09 Any other I know we talked names a lot, but any other names from over the weekend that?
07:17 Maybe he's new on your list or I mean not from over the weekend
07:21 I'd still love to find a way to get one of those guys from Houston whether it's a
07:24 drawn Johnson the quarterbacks coach
07:27 Daniels and McDaniels too much sense almost, you know, if you can't get Josh McDaniels
07:33 Daniels, right
07:36 Gerard Johnson not Geron Gerard Johnson to ours though. Not like Gerard Mayo
07:40 Still like those guys. I know some people have kind of brought up Zach Robinson
07:46 Wouldn't entirely be opposed to him
07:48 It's the same names. We've been talking about same names. We talked about last year
07:53 There's a reason I liked those guys last year and I'm still gonna like them now, so
07:57 Yeah, I don't think there's anything super new that came up. The one interesting one is if
08:02 Mike McCarthy becomes available. Do you bring him in as an offensive coordinator? He has
08:08 Obviously the head coaching experience that you know, you pair with the first-time head coach and Gerard Mayo
08:14 He has run some successful offenses granted. He did it with Aaron Rodgers, but you know going back before Aaron Rodgers
08:20 He he had the role with the Saints kind of in the early 2000s
08:23 They had some good offenses there was you know, a quarterbacks coach for a lot of years a guy that knows how to work with quarterbacks. I
08:29 Need to sleep on this one
08:31 I had the thought and I haven't really flushed out how I feel about it yet
08:34 But he would we talked about Frank Reich I think on the last show right about him potentially being an offense coordinator
08:39 If you're in on Frank, right
08:41 Mike McCarthy's kind of the supercharged version of that now, obviously he comes with baggage
08:45 Dallas has been an absolute train wreck the last few years under him
08:49 but
08:51 Look, he's not gonna here's what I'd say. And again, I'm not sure if I wanted or not
08:54 I'm kind of just having this taken real time
08:56 You're bringing him in as a coordinator not as a head coach and that's a big difference
09:02 there's a lot of guys that are really good coordinators that are just not meant to be head coaches and
09:07 McCarthy might fit in that category
09:10 Yeah
09:11 Would be interesting because looks like he might be on the way out there of Dallas after that should be
09:16 I can't believe you still has a job right now after that. Well, I thought it would be
09:19 First thing Monday morning. Hello. We're halfway through Tuesday here and he's still going but this is an interesting
09:27 one Ben brings up in the chat o-line coach because
09:31 It looks like Adrian Clem
09:35 Probably isn't coming back here
09:37 next year and that's such a big part to this puzzle the offensive line coach because they've gone through so many the last
09:43 few years since Skarnak you're retired and it's obviously been a weak point of that offense, but
09:48 Is this like we got to see who the offensive coordinator is first?
09:52 So then he's probably gonna have his own connections or what are you thinking?
09:56 You know, I know we all like Carmen Bracillo, but he went to join Brian David there in New York from Vegas
10:02 So is this just like we need we need the offensive coordinator first
10:07 And then these things are gonna start filling in or where you kind of at with that old line coach there
10:11 Yeah
10:11 I mean you want somebody who the offensive coordinator is comfortable working with which again you go back to Houston Gerard Johnson or Ben
10:18 McDaniels the assistant offensive line coach there. There's offensive line coach a guy named James Strouser
10:23 Their assistant offensive line coach is Cole Popovich
10:27 Who is with now? He didn't leave the Patriots under the best terms. Yeah
10:32 It's a new, you know, it's four years later five years later who's to say so
10:37 It that's just one example where you're telling you the OC is and then we can get into the offensive line coach thing
10:43 I don't think you want to fill out the staff and then hire your coordinator. That's just backwards. Yeah
10:48 But they do it does sound like they're gonna need like I do think we will have that conversation
10:53 They probably will have another need to have a new offensive line coach
10:56 I don't think Adrian Clems gonna be back
10:58 But it's kind of like you cross that bridge when you come to it sort of thing
11:01 We were a little ahead of ourselves with that right now
11:03 Yep, pop that would be an interesting one because it wasn't a clean ending. But yeah Bill's gone
11:10 So, I don't know the relationships there with the rest of the guys on the staff. He's got
11:15 Who Jake Andrews he coached? Oh, yeah, Troy. So maybe a name to watch if they go out and recruit one of those
11:23 Houston
11:25 Houston guys to be the OC but the other bit of news on the coaching staff
11:30 we had was we might finally be getting a makeover on special teams department because
11:35 They requested an interview with Falcon special teams coordinator Marquis Williams
11:41 We don't know
11:43 If they're going to accept that request or because the Falcons did deny
11:47 Williams a chance to interview with the Giants for a similar position
11:51 Last week, so we'll see how that goes. But
11:55 We all know the special teams unit here has been a mess for the last few years
11:59 With cam Accord leading that we thought it'd get better with Joe judge back in that mix this year
12:04 It didn't really they were still ranked near the bottom of the special team
12:07 So another kind of encouraging sign here that they're going out looking at special teams help and Marquis Williams a
12:13 Guy who no like direct Patriots ties again, but you know, he worked under Matt Patricia in Detroit for two years
12:20 He led the Shrine Bowl against New England staff last year. So another guy they have some familiarity with but another kind of external
12:27 Guy and someone you need to kind of remake the special teams group. Yeah, Atlanta special teams is really good in 22
12:34 I think our fifth in the league in DVO a that number came down a little bit last year
12:37 They did deal with a number injuries on in that phase of the game on
12:40 I I think the Falcons turned down Williams request. I think it was a week ago right a week or two ago
12:47 so different circumstances, I wonder if
12:50 You know if they are interested in bill bills bills bring in Joe judge and that's really what this tells us is
12:56 Joe judge
12:59 Cam Accord Joe Houston
13:02 Probably out maybe Joe Houston says he's like an assistant. I don't know but like the other two probably out
13:07 You figure they follow bill to Atlanta. Obviously Marquis Williams not gonna have a role there. So Falcons
13:12 I feel I kind of have to let him interview one thing he does. Well is
13:17 Gets
13:19 How do I put this so, all right
13:22 Like the Patriots dedicated seven spots to special teams only players this year
13:27 Brendan schooler Chris board Matthew Slater like that group, right? The Falcons get a lot
13:32 They have a lot of guys that are primarily special teams players, but they're also depth players on
13:38 Whatever side of the ball so like I say like a brain and bold and tight where is mostly gonna play special teams
13:43 But you need to fill in on offense or defense. He can do it
13:45 You're not gonna start him over there, but he can do it the Falcon, you know guys like Nate Landman
13:50 Guys like what's his name? They had the the lacrosse player from Ferris State whose name I'm blanking on but they had him there a little
13:57 bit
13:58 The Falcons have been good with that the last couple years getting special teams contributions from guys who aren't core special teamers
14:03 I think a lot of people around here would like that
14:06 I think a lot of people around here be very happy about that
14:08 And I've been somebody who's defended the signing of a couple of special product like, you know
14:14 Coverage specialist guys and I think there's a role for one or two of those guys
14:18 Sevens sevens too many. Yeah, sevens too many and if you have somebody like Williams who can maybe take a guy
14:24 like, you know
14:27 This isn't a great example like Marte mop who didn't play a lot on defenses here. Hey a guy like that or
14:32 You know a guy like
14:36 Kevin Harris was on the roster last couple you didn't play a lot of running back, right?
14:39 Take guys like that and find rules from on special teams. I think there's some value in that
14:44 So I'm not gonna say it's a here and say I'm an expert on Marquise Williams
14:48 But if you can get more out of the non specialists on special teams, I think that's definitely an attractive quality
14:54 Yeah, create some roster spots elsewhere depth another other position. So yeah, that would be interesting. We'll see if he can fix the kicker. Yeah
15:03 He can he fixed did he fix young hoku cuz young hoku was
15:07 Bad his rookie year now. He's you know, but that might have been kind of after yeah
15:14 That was before and also I think young way who's just good. You might just be good
15:18 Well, Chad Ryland could still be good. We're not
15:21 pushing that off the table yet, but
15:24 yeah, we'll see what that special teams crew, but
15:27 It is again encouraging that we knew that was a unit they needed to
15:33 Kind of revamp and kind of fix after a few really bad years and that was an encouraging sign to see them
15:39 on their to-do list early early on there, but
15:42 I believe you know
15:45 That was most of the stuff from the coaching world starting get some of these interviews started put together anything anything we miss
15:52 There I mean, I assume we're gonna do bill separate. So I think that was pretty much it
15:59 There's been so much just getting shot this weekend. I feel like I feel like every day now. I'm writing a column
16:05 That's like if there were 30 reports today. Here's what I make of all of them put together
16:08 Instead of like cuz I can't just write on each one. It's too much to keep up with I know it's been pretty crazy
16:14 but um, let's take a quick break very quickly and we can start to get into some of all those GM reports after we
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17:02 All right, so
17:06 Transitioning to the front office because this is where stuff really got crazy
17:10 it looked like right we heard a lot from Ian Rappaport last week that
17:14 They might accelerate into this GM search pretty quickly
17:18 you got all those names that we knew Dave Ziegler's the John Robinsons of the world and then
17:24 Saturday Adam Schefter, I believe it was on ESPN countdown before the playoff games. He got on and
17:29 Said they're gonna take this kind of slow with this GM search
17:33 They might push it off till after the draft and then they might not even hire one at all and everyone
17:39 Kind of rightfully lost lost their minds at first and then Mike Reese in his Sunday notes. He added some more information
17:47 He said, you know, they've never the crafts have never really had a GM here in the first place
17:53 They're might just bring someone in to kind of oversee personnel and work with Gerard Mayo
17:58 It looks like that guy might be Elliot Wolfe
18:01 But it really looks like they're keeping this scouting department what they have with Elliot Wolfe and Matt grow in place
18:08 They're gonna work with Gerard Mayo
18:10 And that's that's really how they're just gonna kind of move forward with this thing. That's how I kind of read it
18:16 I don't know. Is that how you read it or what's your kind of view on this this whole front office mess going on right now?
18:22 Yeah, again, I would have gone external. I would hire a real GM
18:25 It's what I would have done. I you know, we talked about all those candidates last week
18:29 Adam Peters was obviously top that list. He's now gone
18:32 Trey Brown in Cincinnati was another guy. I think we both really liked as a prior relationship with Mayo
18:38 but the
18:41 There they're sticking in-house. That's what it seems like. So
18:44 You know, I'll say my part there. I would have gone external GM. I
18:49 Brian, I'll leave the floor to you if you want to say the same thing, but I don't think we need to waste a bunch
18:54 Of time lamenting them not doing that. I just that's not the kind of show we do. I'm not super interested in that so
19:00 That and if you agree with me like you can put the caveat on it all now. I
19:05 Agree. Yeah, okay
19:08 That all being said so don't come in the comments and saying we're making excuses for the team and carrying water for the crafts and all
19:14 Of that like this is just this is the show we do we both think they should have gone external
19:18 They didn't we're not gonna waste time complaining about them not doing it. We're gonna move forward with this setup at hand
19:24 so that all being said
19:26 I'm curious
19:29 There was reporting from Albert Breer over the weekend
19:31 About how some of the Patriots draft travels towards the end and there have been whispers of this in the past. Yeah that
19:38 Bill was kind of overruling his scouts
19:43 Scouts wanted Debo Samuel or AJ Brown. He took Nikhil Harry and there's a color
19:47 Isaiah Wynn was suggested as another player that maybe fit that
19:51 description
19:54 Who he was overruling we don't know and it was reported that some of those guys left
19:58 So maybe these guys aren't in the building, but but grow was on the scouting staff at that time
20:03 Grow was on the scouting staff. I think I believe starting in 2016 Wolf hasn't been here that long
20:09 But Matt grow started. Yes as a scouting assistant 2011 became a National Scout in 2019 was the director of college scouting in
20:17 2021 so he was high up when a lot of those picks were being made and
20:21 He would have been one of these guys and maybe Bill should listen to I
20:24 know everybody loves to make like like loves to pick on Matt grow and he's talking to taking a ton of heat for the way
20:29 The roster currently exists and I'm not saying some of that isn't warranted it is
20:32 but we're gonna if if it really was bill overruling everybody and
20:38 You know
20:40 Grow really would have gone in other directions with some of these and he kind of had the 22 draft strategy forced on him by
20:47 Bill and Patricia and maybe Bill was overruling on some of those other picks
20:50 Well now Matt grow is a chance to prove it now
20:53 Matt grows a chance to prove that he would have run things differently and
20:56 There are some quotes if you go back what makes this so tough
21:00 on grow on
21:03 On wolf on Cameron Williams who's also in this discussion Steve Cargile?
21:07 They don't speak to the media. We just kind of have no way of knowing what their philosophies are
21:14 because they've been under bill who had final say and
21:17 They don't talk about anything grow has spoken to the media a couple of times
21:22 So he's really the only guy we can go on with this and if you go back
21:25 He did an interview with the former host of the show Evan Lazar
21:29 He did that on Patriots comm last spring and he also spoke to the media last summer at training camp
21:36 in those two instances
21:39 he
21:42 Goes into depth about the wide receiver position and when he talked to Evan he talked about an
21:48 aggressiveness to pursue those top wide receivers that
21:51 You can't just sit and wait for top wide receiver to come to you whether it's a high draft pick whether it's significant salary cap
21:58 Location you need to be aggressive going out and getting a top wide receiver
22:01 He then over the summer was asked to define a number one wide receiver and the player he described
22:08 Was not a player the Patriots have
22:10 He also talked about being invested in getting DeAndre Hopkins with which obviously fell through
22:16 So the question tree and by the I wrote about all this on 985 the sports hub calm. I put a column up on it
22:22 this morning
22:23 This isn't all to excuse Matt grow and say oh he wanted a wide receiver and Bill didn't and it's obvious
22:27 No, no, no, that's not what this is. What this is is we have
22:31 quotes for Matt grow
22:33 Where he says he understands the important of the wider the importance of the wide receiver position in the modern game
22:38 Put up or shut up. Don't talk about it be about it, right?
22:42 Bill's not there anymore to have final say we don't know who has final say it might be girl
22:47 It might be wolf and maybe we'll feels completely differently about wide receivers
22:50 And hopefully we get to talk to him before the drafts. We can kind of pick his brain on that
22:56 But there is somebody high up in there now without Bill in the way
23:00 Saying again, I'll read you the quote here for Matt grow
23:05 This was to Evan Lazar last year with any of these positions certainly at a playmaker position read that as wide receiver
23:11 There's a price you have to pay for these guys
23:13 Whether that's allocating cap space or allocating high draft pick to be aggressive if you want to have those dynamic playmakers
23:19 You need to pay the price for them
23:22 Obviously the Patriots never did that if grows in charge. He clearly knows what it takes to get it done
23:28 He clearly knows how to recognize those top playmakers and I would say even of the guys the Patriots have brought in
23:33 Devante Parker Nelson Aguilar Tyquan Thornton those guys
23:38 even the optimistic projections
23:41 Did not fit the description of what Matt grow defines a number one wide receiver to be which he talked about over the summer saying
23:48 We defined a number one wide receiver
23:50 Who's a three down guy a players got inside out outside inside?
23:54 Versatility a player who can go out there and get open on his own
23:57 Get open catch the ball gain yards after the catch. So basically what we were read in the face of out last summer a
24:04 coverage dictating receiver
24:07 the Tuesday meeting guy
24:10 That's what grow explained. So he knows what that guy is
24:14 He knows clearly what that guy is and he knows he's got to be aggressive to get him
24:18 He said all that again
24:20 Don't talk about it be about it
24:22 So that when it gets the front office to me is really interesting is there's clearly people in there
24:28 That don't sound a hundred percent bought in on the way the Patriots managed their offensive personnel staff
24:34 I talked to Evan by the way on 98 5 over the weekend
24:36 He told me something else grow told him in that interview that didn't make it to print
24:39 Was the importance of building around a quarterback on a rookie contract?
24:44 Which obviously the Patriots didn't do getting here's somebody who's now right there either is gonna be one or two in the front office
24:51 Talking about all the things we've been read in the face saying the Patriots need to do was that lip service or was it real?
24:58 We're gonna find out because one way or the other we're bringing these quotes back at the end of the offseason and
25:02 Saying did Matt grow live up to what he said a year ago one where I hope we're say
25:07 I hope I get take a victory lap once and say I told Lucas. Yeah, I dug these quotes out
25:12 I told you to have some faith in macro
25:14 But also if I have to come back on and say Matt crow said all this and didn't follow up
25:18 I'll absolutely do that too. Sorry. That was kind of a whole thing, right? No, it's good
25:23 I think he also before the draft didn't he speak on like say flowers he would went to BC a lot
25:29 So he was involved in say flower. Yeah, he talked he talked specifically about that wide receiver class. Yeah
25:35 He did talk about today, but he also talked about the depth
25:38 You're right he did do that
25:41 Do that again. We don't talk to these guys, you know, so it's tough
25:45 But you look at a guy like Cam Williams
25:47 Kind of this new he's a younger guy new age like Ohio State who just breeds wide receivers
25:54 You think he I don't know any good wide receivers from Ohio State and this draft you might think Cam Williams kind on that path
26:00 too, so
26:02 The comments are encouraging I get that grow
26:05 Gets a lot of heat desert like some of them might be deserved based off these last few drafts
26:10 but how much of that was bill really pulling the trigger and those comments might suggest otherwise and
26:16 Even look at the man who used to be above grow Dave Ziegler
26:20 He gets his own own job and the first thing he does is go and acquires Devante Adams, right?
26:25 so maybe right grows kind of on that same same path here, but I
26:29 Think the big kind of maybe big picture thing from all these reports
26:34 We were hearing is the crafts just kind of looked at this. It just said this is Bill's this was all Bill's fault
26:40 right
26:40 it was that kind of so you got because they're just gonna they took bill out of the equation and now they're just
26:46 Gonna let all these guys who are in the personnel department run this they have Mayo doing the coaching staff
26:52 It kind of just seems like they were acting like this last few years was Bill's fault
26:56 We're just gonna remove him and maybe oh, yeah
26:59 I'd phrase that a little differently. I think it's one of two things. I wouldn't say that they think it's Bill's fault
27:05 I would say Bill's set up to be the fall guy because they needed a massive fall guy
27:08 They couldn't get rid of Matt grow. They couldn't get rid of Elliot Wolfe and say the problem's been fixed
27:14 They couldn't like it wouldn't work everybody but will bill still here bill still his final say
27:18 I so for better or worse, I think option one is Bill's the fall guy
27:22 The other one and I know this isn't super popular, but I'm just gonna throw it out there
27:27 Is there a chance that it was bill?
27:30 That initiated the departure or not the crafts and I know Tom Curran reported that bill was done back
27:36 You know after the Germany game there's all this reporting that the craftsmen are ready to move on from bill
27:41 And I'm not saying any of that was essentially false
27:44 but is there a chance that bill looked at this said I
27:50 Got to get to Shula. I don't want to spend five years doing it. This team's now too far away. It's too far gone
27:56 I got to get out of here and go somewhere where I can win ten games a year and
27:59 the crafts weren't necessarily upset about parting ways, but
28:04 They believed in the system they had in place
28:06 And they're trying to keep as much of that system in place as possible. Now, there's risk in that
28:11 We talked about this when the Herald report came out trying to run Dante's carnecchia system without Dante's carnecchia. That's great
28:16 You might have 90% of it the same
28:18 But if it's the 10% of it that's different you're screwed trying to run the Brady offense without Tom Brady. That's fine
28:25 It's a great offense. If you don't have Tom Brady, it doesn't work
28:27 Does the bill Belichick system still work without bill Belichick? I know that kind of sounds like a ridiculous question
28:34 But that's essentially what the crafts are betting on is
28:36 That they could run the Belichick system. They can recapture the magic of the Belichick system without Belichick
28:42 Why would you do that? You wouldn't necessarily do that if you didn't believe in them. Yeah
28:47 Again I I know it I don't even necessarily agree that that's the case. I
28:53 Still think maybe it's just they're going with what's familiar because that's what they believe in
28:57 but part of me just keeps coming back to
29:02 If you're gonna keep like usually when teams keep everything the same like this
29:06 It's because the coach got away that they didn't want to like get away
29:09 So
29:12 It's not again. It's not to say any of the reporting that the crafts are ready to get rid of bills
29:17 Let's say any that wasn't true. I
29:19 Just you know everybody saying Oh bill got fired and they called it a mutual parting ways to be nice
29:24 If it wasn't mutual, I is probably mutual adjacent
29:28 I'm not saying it was all lovey-dovey hugs and kisses on the way out the door. Like it was originally written, right?
29:33 What was it?
29:36 amicably mutually
29:37 first class goodbye like
29:39 There might have been some pounding on the table. No, no mutual agreement is ever like that easy going
29:46 You okay Brian? How's your love life? You say something like that? All right
29:54 I'm just messing with you. No, I'm saying that that you know, was there was there some yelling and shouting
30:00 Maybe as the strings were being untangled
30:02 Yeah
30:03 I'm sure there was the Patriots owed craft the Patriots owed bill a lot of money
30:06 Bill is friends on the staff that I'm sure the crafts would like to keep there's you know, you worked together 24 years
30:12 It's it's so entangled
30:14 but at the same time
30:16 Who started on tangling the strings whose idea was it to untangle the strings?
30:20 That part could have been mutual. They both could have looked at it and said
30:23 All right
30:24 we got to figure out how to break this thing up because it's not where like
30:26 I'm not super convinced that bill had to be like dragged out of there kicking and screaming. I that might not have been the case
30:32 Yep. Yep. It's an interesting point because we talked
30:36 When it first happened like the timelines don't match up right if he wants to go somewhere, right?
30:42 Try to get accelerate this process to break the record. You might think he was trying to lay the groundwork
30:49 to kind of get out of there, but
30:51 Very quickly back to grow in Elliot Wolfe. Do you think it's?
30:54 Important that at some point along this process here. It's established that someone
31:00 Or maybe it's even Mayo that someone has final say and it doesn't have to be as powerful as you know
31:07 Bill Belichick's final say it looks like they're definitely
31:09 Going to this more collaborative approach, but do you think there needs to be?
31:14 Something where you know, there's 30 seconds left on the draft card and we're all still kind of battling over this. Does someone need?
31:20 To have a little more power in there and people know who that is to have yes quote-unquote final say yes
31:28 Collaborative approaches BS. Yeah, and and it can be
31:31 That's a little harsh. It can be collaborative up to a point, you know
31:35 Putting the draft board together can be a collaborative approach. But to your point
31:38 clocks ticking down
31:41 Call it because they just don't keep a lot of people in their draft room. Let's let's call it seven people in the draft room
31:48 Three people want Marvin Harrison jr. Three people want Jane Daniels
31:51 Or it doesn't work in my number. It's ten people in the job
31:56 Five people won't Marvin Harrison jr. Five people want Jane Daniels who decides who ultimately says nope
32:03 We're doing this because I said it was and that's not something that I think happens
32:08 You don't wait and let it play out and oh somebody will develop final say no
32:12 That's something that needs to be decided by the crafts
32:14 soon
32:16 Needs decided be decided by the crafts, you know before you get to because that's on everything. That's not just the drafts
32:21 That's signing resigning internal free agents. We should be starting now like they should be negotiating with these guys starting now
32:26 This is the big unknown of all of this
32:29 Will it be grow the reporting seems to suggest it'll be wolf
32:33 The weird thing about that is Wolfe's the director of college scouting is technically like under grow, right?
32:40 Right. It's the personnel director. So are you promoting wolf over grow?
32:45 You're essentially would be demoting grow because anything over director of player personnel is GM. So you either make an Elliot Wolf GM
32:52 Or you demote or fire Matt grow. So either way something weird has to happen
32:57 Or Matt grow has final say or Elliot Wolf has final say over his boss
33:03 is essentially what that or I saw a lot of people saying like
33:06 One might have final say in free agency or one and one might have it on the draft
33:10 No, but you can't that's bad. You can't that should and and I had that thought maybe that is what they do
33:16 They shouldn't because everybody's got to be going in one direction
33:18 This is where that position that we talked about Brian that VP of football operations
33:24 That's the guy you have come down when there's you know
33:27 Five people in the room say Martin Harrison jr. Five people in the room say Jane Daniels you call Scott P
33:32 Oh, you have him come in from down the hall and say Scott. What do we do?
33:35 like that's where
33:37 that position
33:39 would be so helpful and there was some reporting that that position may end up existing and
33:45 that position could end up becoming a thing because Gerard Mayo is still talking to front office candidates around the league and
33:52 High it's at high level front office candidates. They're not coming here to work for macro or Elliot Wolf
33:56 They're just not doing that. So and if they're not gonna come here to be GM
33:59 The reporting says there'll be no GM then maybe that's what the role is
34:02 I do want to address this. I don't want to but I want to I
34:06 Don't know where the hell this I was literally just the band and do I bring that comment up?
34:13 Yeah, that Jonathan craft is taking over and the other the other woman who works for the crafters name. I can't remember Robin something
34:20 there was like one little thing in one report that they've become more interested in football ops and
34:25 I'm not saying that that's fine. Like you don't want the owners meddling it turning into rock Jonathan craft runs
34:33 the the football operations from the Patriots is so
34:36 Monumentally asinine I think it bred from didn't it breed from people thinking like
34:44 The crafts got more involved in the football operations by bringing in Bill O'Brien and people think Jonathan is pushing Robert to make those decisions
34:51 And now we're get to Jonathan wants to basically be Jerry Jones and be running the team from a football operation standpoint
34:58 So we've talked about this one
35:00 This is a big fork in the road for the crafts. They got more involved the last couple years
35:05 There's some argument that they may be needed to bill Belichick wanted to bring back man Patricia, right?
35:11 But now that Bill's gone
35:14 They need to go back to what worked for 20 years and go back upstairs and let the football people run the football team
35:20 That's what they should do if they don't it's a mistake
35:23 But you're never gonna see a world. That's just not the way anything
35:27 The way these guys are wired and the way these guys think if
35:33 Jonathan craft walk into the draft room and said draft player X he would get laughed out of the room like they would quit
35:40 That's Jonathan craft will not have will he have an input?
35:45 Yeah, he might eat there might be more of an input from ownership now than there was in the past. I'm not ruling that out
35:49 But Jonathan craft is not gonna have final say over the Patriots football decisions. That's just not how it's structurally set up and
35:58 Curran came out and reported that - he does not want to have any football operations responsibility
36:06 so I know that was like the hot topic of the weekend, but yeah, I just
36:10 I
36:12 Don't see that one
36:13 How did we get if we get reporting that Jonathan crafts in the draft were making decisions?
36:17 I'll gladly backtrack and I'll rip him for it because it would be stupid of him to do that
36:21 He's guys are nose to the grindstone every day scouting prospects. I can't imagine Jonathan crafts doing that if he is all the power to him
36:28 I guess I mean
36:30 Robert was asked and I know Robert Jonathan, but like Robert was asked in the press conference the other day
36:35 Like why did your football team on the field fall apart? And he's like, I don't know. I'm not qualified
36:41 I'm not smart enough to make that decision, right? So these guys shouldn't be
36:45 Handling it's I will say it is the owners job
36:49 To say maybe to bill
36:52 Bringing that Patricia back probably isn't the smartest thing, right?
36:55 That's a job of an owner to step in and say like that's not smart for our franchise in our organization
37:01 getting involved picking players
37:04 Schemes or whatever that's not their job. Those need to go to the macros in the Elliot Wolfe's of the world
37:10 Right, exactly. Yeah, and it's just I don't know
37:15 I I there's a lot of animosity in the fan base now towards the crafts because they are seen as
37:20 Having two people conspire to push bill out the door apparently the crafts and the media
37:25 I I don't want to get into the layers of what I think is driving some of that conversation because that's not we do on
37:32 the show, but I
37:34 Understand why people are frustrated. I are I do at a certain point you need to
37:38 move forward and like there is still a football team that exists post bill Belichick and
37:43 There are ways to win afterwards. I'm not saying it's gonna be easy
37:47 I'm not saying it's gonna be immediate but being a Patriots fan can't just be holding utter, you know on
37:53 Unbroiled animosity towards the crafts end of list. We can't be that fan base. We're so much better than that
38:00 I really don't want to see Patriots fans become that that that's what the Washington commanders are
38:04 I have no interest in being that you know
38:07 Yep, I agree with you there, but I believe that's
38:11 most of the
38:13 GM or again lack there of GM and the personnel department all that news and reports from
38:18 Over the weekend. So let's take one more quick break and then we can wrap it up with some of the other
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39:43 All right, so we'll wrap up with a few pieces of other news from the weekend starting with Bill Belichick
39:50 It came out last night that he is
39:52 Officially in this coaching carousel as he is interviewed with the Atlanta Falcons a team
39:58 We kind of knew we're looking at him for a while now had interested him looks like
40:04 Maybe he was on Arthur Smith's super yacht over the weekend or whatever it was
40:08 But he takes his first job interview. It was kind of like still surreal watching that tweet come out last night with
40:15 Bill Belichick in front of the I mean Ryan hang on I'm gonna do some rare
40:19 We're gonna flip us cuz I got a point look at this
40:21 But not my name under it like Bill next to the Falcons look that looks so weird weird that looks so weird
40:29 Weirder than me on the left you on the right continue
40:34 That was pretty much it it was just a
40:36 Weird setup weird seeing that kind of unfold but we expected the Falcons to have some interest in him
40:43 Good roster, but they need a quarterback and now he officially interviews for that job
40:49 Yeah, look I think of the non playoff teams. It's the best opening for him. Certainly
40:55 The roster is pretty much ready to go. They need a quarterback. That's no small feat
41:00 To add a quarterback, but they got a lot of good talent at the skill positions. They got a good offensive line
41:06 They built a great secondary the fronts, you know still kind of a work in progress, but it's gotten better
41:11 And that's obviously a spot. We know bill Belichick can maximize
41:14 Owner that that seems willing to spend easy division like you look at it if he's really trying to catch Shula
41:22 You're playing the NFC South. I mean the Panthers are still gonna be ass
41:27 Right. They won they won seven games with Desmond Redder this year and all right, so
41:31 The Saints are probably gonna get worse before they get better
41:35 Bucks might be decent but he didn't still you sweep the Saints you sweep the the Panthers you split with the Bucs
41:41 That's five wins. Boom. That's that's you know in two years. That's ten wins
41:45 It's more than half the wins. He needs to get to Shula
41:47 So I think playing in a division like that you certainly put weight on it
41:51 Yeah, I think Atlanta makes a ton of sense. I think Atlanta makes a ton of sense
41:54 Yeah, I think Atlanta makes a ton of sense for now. Let's see if Dallas or Philly, you know jobs open up there
42:00 Then it becomes another story. Those teams are obviously further along especially Dallas, but
42:04 For the non-playoff teams Atlanta makes a ton of sense ton of sense. They would also visit New England next year or
42:11 Technically two years 2025
42:14 25 yeah, which so Bill's second would be his second season. Yeah
42:19 Depending how it goes. Maybe he's hunting for the Shula record at that game. That would be I mean
42:26 They would try to schedule it that way if he comes in like
42:28 Seven games out seven games out. They'll have them play like week eight or nine or something
42:34 Yeah late in the year. So that's on the table. My first one of my first thoughts was
42:39 Dallas Turner Falcons eighth overall just pencil that into all your
42:45 Maps cuz that's yes, sir. It's a lock for what that roster kind of needs it and what bill would like so
42:50 That was kind of the big news last night. They said no obviously contract was signed signed but mutual
42:58 Mutual
43:01 whatever they like each other and
43:03 Conversations are ongoing but he's assumed Dallas and Philly with those rosters are still kind of
43:09 kind of lurking there in the shadows for Billy B, but
43:13 some other news if you want to take it to the draft Caleb Williams officially declared
43:18 Kind of made everyone wait till the last moment there. He declared on deadline day
43:24 You'd assume he's still the odds-on favorite to be the number one overall pick whether that's Chicago
43:29 Moving on from fields, which we can also talk about Justin Fields very quickly
43:33 but moving on from fields or team trading up there to get Caleb Williams and
43:38 other college quarterback news Michael panics
43:41 was announced to be going to the Senior Bowl who we all know you like and I believe you're going to the Senior Bowl -
43:47 So I'm not actually I'm so plans change. We're gonna combine instead of the Senior Bowl
43:51 Okay, but we will at least get to watch Michael panics against I don't know if he'll play
43:57 But I wouldn't be surprised if he does like what's a flowers did last year at the Shrine Bowl
44:01 He just does one day and then just uses it to interview with teams and maybe get right
44:05 Can can I do medicals down there too? Or how does that I?
44:09 Yeah, I I don't think to the level that they can do it at the combine, but they can do some brief medical workups
44:14 Yeah, so
44:16 That way a little breaking news my Tomlin staying with the Steelers. So okay
44:21 Interesting or he told the team he plans on staying with the Steelers. So for whatever that's worth
44:27 After he walked off the podium yesterday, right?
44:31 But uh, yeah, Michael panics. It will be good to watch him down there and mobile. So
44:39 Another good name to watch it will be him and Bo Nix kind of the top two names for the senior bowl rosters, but
44:43 What do you think of going back to kale Williams and Justin Fields?
44:48 It would be big for the Patriots again
44:50 If the Bears decide to keep Justin Fields because that opens the door for one of those
44:55 Quarterbacks sliding down or maybe opens the door for the Patriots to trade up even though that kind of seems unlikely
45:01 But the Bears announced they interviewed Greg Roman for their offensive coordinator spot last night
45:06 So I think we all thought immediately that
45:09 Looks maybe positive that they might kind of move forward with Justin Fields here
45:13 I mean, you're not hiring Greg Roman to draft Kayla Williams if anything you're
45:18 Drafting Jane Daniels with Greg Roman, but Greg Roman
45:22 So for those who don't know he was the offensive coordinator for Colin Kaepernick in San Francisco
45:26 And he was the offense coordinator for most of Lamar Jackson's early career in Baltimore. He specializes in these mobile quarterbacks
45:33 Enter Justin Fields, right? This is it makes so much sense
45:37 It makes so much sense to pair Justin Fields with Greg Roman if the decision is to keep Justin Fields, so
45:43 Maybe they just interviewed him to kind of hear his pitch on what he would do with fields
45:48 Maybe that doesn't mean that's their plan
45:50 But yeah, if they hire Greg Roman, I I would be pretty convinced to lock it in that that the Bears are sticking with
45:58 Justin Fields now that doesn't mean that Kayla Williams doesn't go one-one like my guess would be then they're trading out of that pick
46:04 To add assets to build more around Justin Fields
46:06 I still think the goal, you know, the best case scenario for the Patriots is Washington trades up from one to two
46:11 They get the quarterback Bears trade down to two get Marvin Harrison and you're sitting there at three
46:16 Getting the pick between Drake May and Jane Daniels
46:18 Maybe the Patriots move up to one like that probably hasn't been discussed enough
46:22 Because three to one
46:25 Decent-sized undertaking not may it's not nine to one like the Panthers did last year still probably giving up a future first
46:30 But that's that might be it
46:32 I mean there might be some day three picks, but you're not giving up like a DJ more kind of player
46:36 Or anything like that
46:38 so
46:40 Justin Fields, so whatever way it works out whatever permutation
46:43 Justin Fields saying with the Bears is good for the Patriots and whatever that does to the draft order beyond that. Yep
46:49 That's what we should be rooting for because if you can get
46:52 if you can get if it ends up that you either
46:55 can trade up to one for kale Williams or you get your pick of the litter between Drake May and Jade and Daniels and
47:00 That's probably best case scenario at this point
47:04 uh, because we all know they need need the quarterback so if they can get one of the
47:08 They can get their choice almost and that's that's the best way to go about this and see how that scouting department kind of feels
47:14 about those guys
47:15 On on this note for the people who want to see the Patriots trade down for a quarterback from three
47:20 Whether it's down trade down for whether you know people say oh, you know, it's too high to take Jane Daniels at three
47:26 It's not but oh, it's too high, you know trade down to like seven take Daniels there and then you you know
47:31 you get a line and or oh just move down to like
47:33 You know get like the you know trade with the cardinals get the fourth pick and then a pick in the teens
47:38 Then you take joe alt four and then you can take like, you know
47:40 Jj McCarthy or bo nick or michael panics or which I still wouldn't be super excited about at that point. Um
47:48 Right since the since the nfl instituted the the rookie contract scale rule
47:52 So used to be you just negotiated contracts with rookies outright now, right? It's those preset contracts. It's been that way since 2011
47:58 Do you know how many times the team has traded down on the first round of taking the quarterback?
48:02 No, I ran these numbers earlier today
48:05 once
48:07 There you go
48:08 Buffalo and it's never happened in the top 10
48:11 The buffalo bills traded down from 8 to 16
48:14 in 2013
48:17 To take ej manuel. Do you want to how many times it's happened in the modern era of the draft?
48:21 So this is going back to 1994
48:24 It's happened six times
48:28 So before ej manuel the last trade down or sorry five times
48:33 There was one in 2007 where the eagles traded from 26 to 36 and took kevin cub
48:39 The last time before ej manuel when a team traded down to take quarterback
48:44 was 2003
48:46 When the bears traded down to take rex grossman, but they got two firsts. So keep that in mind before that patrick ramsey
48:54 kade mcdown
48:57 And look carrie collins isn't bad. We're going back to 1995
48:59 The last time a team got a decent quarterback trading down in the first round. The only problem is
49:03 Carolina panthers traded down from one to five to draft. Carrie collins. You know who went third that year
49:09 steve mcnair
49:13 We're not talking I know I I know this is like loosely related to what we were talking about
49:17 But I just want to bring this up
49:19 Not you're not trained down for quarterback. You like your quarterback. You take him to three
49:22 Yeah, you don't like any of the quarterbacks. You don't take one. It feels like a trade down
49:26 At this point will most likely be entertained if it's like offensive tackle or wide receiver, right? You're looking at
49:33 Moving down a few spots for a malik neighbors or joe alt or an olufish on that seems like the path
49:40 That you know, you could follow the exact kind of blueprint that the cardinals did and move back to 12
49:46 They went from 3 to 12 last year and then they got a future first round pick
49:50 They got a bunch of assets and then they used some of those assets
49:53 To move back up to six and they took paris johnson so you could move around the draft board
49:57 snag olufish on who at six you have your tackle you add a future first round pick but
50:02 I agree with you if you want a quarterback
50:05 If you identify a quarterback who's sitting there at three that you believe in that you think is the guy you got to just
50:11 You take him there. You can't risk losing him and as the numbers say moving back to get him
50:15 That's rare and just usually doesn't end well in the first place. So
50:19 Right, but if you believe in the guy you take him you don't
50:23 You don't play games with it. You don't risk losing him no matter how much you think you know the board
50:29 When the chiefs moved up I have it here exactly how far they moved up. Hang on. I have it on my list
50:34 Uh when the cheat this is what I spent all day doing when the chiefs move up
50:38 Moved up in 2017 from 27 to 10 to take patrick holmes
50:41 People not only said it was an overpay. They said they drafted mahomes too high
50:45 They never say that anymore
50:48 I wonder why
50:50 If you draft the right guy, there's no price too high
50:53 There's no draft pick too high if you draft the right guy you draft the wrong guy
50:56 It doesn't matter if you took him at three you took him at seven. He sucks. You don't have a quarterback
51:00 You're screwed anyway, right? You take him at 15 and it doesn't work anyway, right?
51:05 Exactly other positions you can game a little bit other positions like obviously they did last year with christian gonzalez. It was great
51:11 They knew the board they moved down gonzalez fell to one
51:14 You don't do that with quarterbacks. It's just it's a different position there
51:19 I I forget if I did that rant on this show or on another show brian last week
51:23 There's two drafts. There's really two drafts happening simultaneously
51:26 There's the quarterback draft or there's three there's the quarterback draft
51:30 There's the kicker draft and there's everybody else like you take quarter you take the quarterback when you need to take the quarterback
51:36 It doesn't matter what the rest of the board looks like
51:38 Everybody's gonna game quarterbacks the way they want to
51:41 Quarterbacks who aren't first round talents go in the first round all the time just because the position's so valuable
51:46 So you take the quarterback where you have you take the quarterback where you have the opportunity to take them
51:51 You don't play games with it
51:52 Yep
51:53 I'm glad you brought up christian gonzalez because that's exactly what I was going to say because I could already hear people say oh
51:58 They did it last year. They moved the boards, but they did they treated the board so well
52:02 Or they moved down and they still knew their guy was going to be there. It's just
52:05 It's a different animal. It's a different beast at that quarterback position if you believe in a guy you just you can't take the risk
52:12 you have to
52:13 Just take him when when you're on the board and he's right there to you. So yeah, I agree with you
52:17 There's two or three different drafts with with that quarterback spot. It's just a different
52:22 It's just a different beast and you have to treat it as such
52:27 Exactly. Yep. Yep
52:29 All right
52:30 So unless you got anything else to wrap it up
52:33 we can kind of bring this one to an end where you will
52:36 Both be down at gillette tomorrow at noon because gerard mayo will be officially introduced as the 15th
52:43 Head coach of the new england patriots. I believe you can watch that live on patriots.com. There will be a live stream
52:49 We'll obviously be back on thursday, I believe to break. Yes. I'm going on thursday. Yeah, i'm sure he's going to
52:56 Or we'll be asking him plenty of questions about all this coaching searches and gm searches
53:02 I don't know if the crafts will take questions too during this but they'll be there. So
53:07 Uh, we'll be back on thursday to break whatever happens down there at gillette tomorrow down
53:13 So make sure you subscribe to the channel turn on your notifications on youtube
53:17 So you do know when we go live you can also follow alex on twitter at real alex barth
53:22 Go read his work over at 985 the sports hub.com. He'll have you covered from all things for tomorrow down at gillette and I will
53:28 Too at my twitter is I I am brian hines and my work will be over at pats pulpit
53:34 Dot com. Thank you all as always for tuning in and we will see you guys later this week