In this week’s episode of Unpacked by AFAR, we’re debuting “If These Walls Could Talk,” which shares the secrets behind iconic hotels, beginning with New York City’s legendary Hotel Chelsea.
How does the hotel that attracted luminaries like Andy Warhol, Janis Joplin, and Sid Vicious undergo a renovation without losing its gritty, celeb-packed history? In this week’s episode of Unpacked, we’re debuting “If These Walls Could Talk,” which shares the secrets behind iconic hotels, beginning with New York City’s legendary Hotel Chelsea. AFAR’s hotel editor Jennifer Flowers takes us behind the scenes, where ghosts, celebrities, and charismatic residents lurk.
Read the transcript here: https://rebrand.ly/6bt9mcp
Discover more episodes of the podcast here: https://www.afar.com/podcasts/unpacked
----
CONNECT WITH AFAR
Afar.com is a digital and print magazine that publishes travel tips, guides, news, and stories: https://www.afar.com
Get updates on the latest articles, travel news, and more from AFAR by signing up for the AFAR newsletter: https://afar.com/newsletters
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Follow AFAR on Twitter: https://twitter.com/afarmedia
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How does the hotel that attracted luminaries like Andy Warhol, Janis Joplin, and Sid Vicious undergo a renovation without losing its gritty, celeb-packed history? In this week’s episode of Unpacked, we’re debuting “If These Walls Could Talk,” which shares the secrets behind iconic hotels, beginning with New York City’s legendary Hotel Chelsea. AFAR’s hotel editor Jennifer Flowers takes us behind the scenes, where ghosts, celebrities, and charismatic residents lurk.
Read the transcript here: https://rebrand.ly/6bt9mcp
Discover more episodes of the podcast here: https://www.afar.com/podcasts/unpacked
----
CONNECT WITH AFAR
Afar.com is a digital and print magazine that publishes travel tips, guides, news, and stories: https://www.afar.com
Get updates on the latest articles, travel news, and more from AFAR by signing up for the AFAR newsletter: https://afar.com/newsletters
Follow AFAR on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AfarMedia
Follow AFAR on Twitter: https://twitter.com/afarmedia
Follow AFAR on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/afarmedia
Follow AFAR on Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/afarmedia
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TravelTranscript
00:00 We've all been here.
00:09 You want to take a big trip, but you're so overwhelmed with information and decisions
00:13 you don't know where to begin.
00:15 Enter the AFAR Travel Advisory Council, a group of travel experts ready to help you
00:20 take your travels from dream to reality.
00:23 When you work with an advisor, you can count on expertise and a one-on-one relationship
00:28 every step of the way.
00:30 Because it's about trust.
00:32 From custom trip planning to providing 24/7 white glove service, advisors make it easy
00:37 to travel with confidence so you can get back to the wonders of travel.
00:42 Learn more and meet your advisor at afar.com/tac.
00:54 I'm Jennifer Flowers, AFAR's Senior Deputy Editor and resident hotel expert.
00:58 This is Unpacked, the podcast that unpacks one tricky topic in travel each week.
01:03 Welcome to our first episode of If These Walls Could Talk, a mini-series that explores the
01:08 stories and secrets hotels can tell about the places we visit.
01:14 Today we're touring the Hotel Chelsea, also known as the Chelsea Hotel, one of the most
01:18 storied lodgings in all of New York City.
01:22 As a seasoned New Yorker, I've had a long-time fascination with the Chelsea.
01:26 It started not long after I first moved to New York City in the early aughts.
01:29 My friend Heather, a music blogger, was in town from Colorado.
01:33 She dragged me to a run-down hotel in New York City's Chelsea neighborhood.
01:37 This was where music legends like Janis Joplin, Patti Smith, and Jimi Hendrix hung out.
01:42 Sometimes they even used the hotel as their muse.
01:45 After that first visit, I began to learn about what made the Hotel Chelsea such a unique
01:49 place.
01:50 The hotel was built in 1884, and it's been both a home and a playground for all kinds
01:54 of creatives over the last century.
01:56 Andy Warhol filmed Chelsea Girls Inside the Hotel.
01:59 Joni Mitchell was inspired to write Chelsea Morning here.
02:07 It's also where Sid Vicious of the Sex Pistols allegedly stabbed his girlfriend.
02:12 After a couple of changes in ownership, the landmarked building closed to hotel guests
02:15 in 2011.
02:16 It took a decade for the current owners to overhaul the Chelsea for a new generation
02:20 of guests, and for the few dozen residents who still call the Chelsea home.
02:25 The Chelsea reopened its doors in 2022, and it's also part of AFAR's 2023 stay list,
02:31 a roundup of the best new hotels around the world.
02:34 But how exactly did this hotel and co-op apartment building turn into a hotbed of creativity
02:39 in New York City?
02:40 And how can the newly refreshed Chelsea remain relevant to the next generation of travelers
02:44 and artists?
02:46 For answers to these questions, we're diving into the hotel's fascinating past, present,
02:50 and future.
02:51 Let's check in to the Chelsea Hotel.
02:57 Welcome to the Hotel Chelsea.
02:58 Thank you.
02:59 Can I help you with that?
03:00 The Hotel Chelsea is located on 23rd Street between 7th and 8th Avenues.
03:04 As I approach the building, I see its famous three-story neon sign that glows white and
03:08 pink.
03:09 The lobby looks the same as it did when I first visited.
03:13 There's the enormous fireplace, the velvet couches and wooden benches, the contemporary
03:17 paintings on the walls.
03:19 I end up at a reception desk with a wall of keys.
03:22 They're digital ones, but the key cards are hanging from old-fashioned red tassels.
03:26 Behind the lobby, I see a staircase with a wrought iron railing that winds all the way
03:30 up to a skylight.
03:32 People of all walks of life seem to be passing through the lobby, a mix of guests, staff,
03:37 residents, and passersby who want to feel the vibe.
03:40 Some are headed to El Quixote, the oldest Spanish restaurant in New York City, located
03:44 in the hotel, while others are parked in the busy lobby bar where I chat with Courtney
03:48 Cornegay, the maitre d'.
03:51 So one of the great things I love about lobby bar is it's bringing back New York elegance
03:55 and the old school.
03:56 We don't play music, which you probably have already realized, so it brings a mature crowd,
04:01 like slightly more elevated, and it's a place you can come have a drink and catch up with
04:05 friends and just have a really good time.
04:07 That's really cool.
04:08 And does it get fun here in the weekends?
04:10 Oh yes, yes.
04:11 Fridays and Saturdays, but Saturdays especially, people start drinking martinis at like 1 or
04:15 2 o'clock in the afternoon, and it's completely busy for the rest of the evening until we
04:19 close at 2am.
04:20 So it's a really good vibe on Fridays and Saturdays.
04:23 The place has so much energy that you'd never guess it was closed for most of the last decade.
04:28 On one hand, Hotel Chelsea is very much part of New York and has been part of New York
04:33 and hopefully will continue to be part of New York, but simultaneously, Hotel Chelsea
04:38 has always been sort of other.
04:41 It's always sort of marched to its own beat, and so it's been part of the city, but sort
04:47 of on its own terms, like someone's weird friend.
04:51 That's Sean McPherson.
04:53 If you're a hotel junkie like I am, you may have heard of him.
04:56 He's the one behind the beloved Jane, Bowery, and Maritime hotels here in New York City,
05:01 all fascinating projects with their own histories and scenes.
05:05 He now owns the Chelsea along with Ira Drucker and Richard Bourne.
05:08 I'm sitting with Sean on the ground floor of the hotel in what used to be known as the
05:12 Ladies' Tea Room, which doubled as the office of the hotel's late manager, Stanley Bard.
05:17 Stanley ran the place for more than four decades and occasionally took rent in the form of
05:21 artwork.
05:22 Sean and I are at a long wooden table beneath ceiling frescoes of cherubs and garlands,
05:27 and he's telling me that anyone who's ever owned the Chelsea Hotel has gone broke.
05:33 So it was a very challenging job, and I think it didn't necessarily make economic sense,
05:38 but it did make romantic sense to myself and my partners, meaning that we really did love
05:43 it and do love it.
05:44 So it's been extremely challenging to work with this building that really had been sort
05:50 of held together with scotch tape and paper clips since it was built.
05:53 They had never really upgraded any of the systems, so the elevators, the fire safety
05:58 system, the hot water system, et cetera, was all just patched together over close to the
06:04 last 120, 130 years.
06:06 So what exactly appealed to Sean and his business partners?
06:09 I ask him about his personal connection to the hotel.
06:12 I can't remember a time where I wasn't aware of Hotel Chelsea because of Leonard Cohen
06:16 and Janis Joplin.
06:18 I moved to New York in 2000, and I was opening a restaurant not far from here called the
06:24 Park Restaurant on 10th Avenue in Chelsea, and my mother came to town, and I put her
06:29 up here at the Hotel Chelsea because it was close to where my apartment was.
06:34 And it was still semi-functioning as a hotel, and I had many friends who lived here.
06:39 But I was astonished by just how seedy it was.
06:43 My mother was quite a hearty traveler, and even for her it was pretty grimy.
06:48 I still did love the feeling of it and the history of it, and physically it's a beautiful
06:55 building.
06:56 I call it a grand dam.
06:58 And also in terms of its soul, it felt like it carried spirits in it in some way.
07:04 I ask what it felt like to be handed the keys of such a legendary place that also needed
07:08 a lot of TLC.
07:10 The first mandate for sure was don't mess it up, genuinely.
07:14 And of course there's probably a dozen different people that would do it a dozen different
07:19 ways, and they would all be fine.
07:21 So I think that the way that we restored it may or may not be exactly to everyone's taste,
07:29 but it is done in a way where I would hope that people feel that we respected the bones
07:37 of the architecture and the spirit of the building and the history of the building.
07:43 So we worked very hard to not ruin it.
07:47 Sean and I go up one of the two elevators that flank the reception desk, and in a few
07:50 minutes we're in a guest room.
07:52 I notice gauze curtains that look like someone burned cigarette holes into them, but managed
07:56 to do so with a sense of style.
07:58 I found this fabric and all these holes torn in them, and they felt to me vaguely like
08:04 they evoked torn jeans.
08:07 And torn jeans to me were so kind of rock and roll.
08:11 And so that is a place where it's meant to sort of touch on the rock and roll history
08:16 of the building.
08:17 And even these English roll-arm couches, which are elegant and classic, and then there's
08:21 sort of a mix on one hand of the backs are all in just canvas or linen, which is a pretty
08:28 modest material, and the seats are in mohair with brush, which is sort of a high-end material
08:34 and sort of a mix of high and low simultaneously.
08:38 It feels very sophisticated and smart, but also I feel like I can just be myself in it.
08:45 I don't know, or just be in another city that I'm excited about and just play in that city.
08:50 I don't know, there's something very exciting about the design of the room.
08:52 I'm trying to find the right words, but like...
08:54 Loosh.
08:55 It's loosh.
08:56 Yeah, you got it.
08:57 You got it.
08:58 From one suite, he takes me outside to see the famous neon sign up close.
09:02 Wow, we're stepping out onto the terrace, the famous wrought iron terrace, and this
09:07 is incredible.
09:08 It's right there in the street, and there's the Hotel Chelsea sign right there, which
09:11 is the famous sign.
09:13 God, that is beautiful.
09:14 And if you look at Google images or photographs of Chelsea Hotel, it seems that every famous
09:20 person ever checked in here, checked in, they took off all their clothes, they got on the
09:26 terrace in front of the sign and had someone take a picture of them.
09:29 So there's endless pictures of naked celebrities in front of this sign.
09:33 Perhaps not celebrities, but luminaries.
09:38 I love it.
09:39 That's awesome.
09:40 I'm going to take a quick snap of this, because I won't take my clothes off, I promise.
09:57 It was so, so crazy to remember, even.
10:01 The moment that we just stepped up.
10:12 I'm loving the renovation, which feels a little bit old world Europe, a little bit rock and
10:16 roll and a little bit New York City apartment.
10:19 It feels appropriate for all the creativity that congregated here.
10:23 Arthur Miller called the Chelsea home for a handful of years in the 60s after he split
10:27 from Marilyn Monroe.
10:28 Patti Smith and Robert Mapplethorpe shacked up together here in the 70s.
10:32 Thomas Wolfe spent his last years here writing You Can't Go Home Again, which was published
10:36 after he died.
10:37 And Madonna was photographed for her infamous sex book here.
10:45 Built in 1884 by a Frenchman named Philippe Hubert, the Chelsea was one of the first apartment
10:50 co-ops in New York City.
10:51 Today, more than 70% of New York City apartments are co-ops, including the one I live in.
10:57 Originally called the Chelsea Association, it began to accept hotel guests in 1905 due
11:01 to financial stresses and the shifting of residential and commercial ventures in Manhattan.
11:06 Back then, it was in the middle of the theater district, kind of like the Times Square of
11:09 its day.
11:10 New owners bought the Chelsea in 1939, which ushered in the most celebrated era of the
11:15 hotel.
11:17 For a history lesson, I'm calling up Cheryl Tippins, the author of the book Inside the
11:21 Dream Palace, which chronicles the Chelsea and its personalities.
11:25 She's in southeastern France for a festival celebrating the lives of utopian philosophers
11:29 Charles Fourier and Victor Considerant, which is why her audio cuts in and out of it.
11:34 The ideas of these two 19th century philosophers informed Hubert's vision for the Chelsea.
11:39 Hubert wanted to help young people who were moving to the city and needed affordable housing.
11:45 What this utopian idea is all about is that first you save money by living together and
11:52 sharing facilities and you use that freedom from owing money for rent, you use that to
12:01 free up your time and by freeing up time you become more creative and at the same time
12:06 you have a rich social life because you're living among like-minded people.
12:10 But it's important to have a diversity of personality types so that you have a very
12:15 rich kind of social life.
12:18 In her book, Cheryl paid special attention to how people passing through the hotel interacted
12:22 with one another.
12:23 I love to show how artists influence one another and how that mix of ideas is then put into
12:32 the larger world and how it affects the larger world and how the outer world comes back in
12:37 and influences the art.
12:39 So the Chelsea was a perfect place to do that kind of study, to see how the artist mirrors
12:46 society and how society grows because of the art.
12:50 So I could transition from one artist to another in that way and kind of weave a network of
12:57 people responding to other people, people responding to events outside the hotel and
13:02 interpreting them through their art.
13:04 For example, Leonard Cohen, he thought Edie Sedgwick was cute so he managed to get an
13:10 invitation to her apartment and so then I could talk about Edie Sedgwick.
13:15 And then of course he met Janis Joplin so I could go into Janis Joplin's life.
13:20 And once I was focused on an artist, then I could go into their background and tell
13:25 readers how they had come to this point in their lives and what they were doing there,
13:30 why they were there, and how being with all of these other people enhanced their work
13:36 or didn't.
13:37 But I think it almost always did.
13:40 Cheryl also stayed in the Chelsea several times before it closed and even wrote a chapter
13:43 of her book there.
13:47 You know what struck me most about the Chelsea was it didn't matter who you were.
13:52 Like as soon as you had a room, you were part of the family.
13:55 And they immediately came up, you know, the people behind the front desk came up with
13:58 a nickname for me and the people who lived there were totally open to talk to me and
14:04 would introduce me to other people who lived there and show me their artwork and invite
14:09 me to their shows.
14:10 It was like you were at home with the family, whether or not you knew the people there.
14:15 It was unique.
14:16 I don't think I've ever been in a place in New York City that felt that way.
14:22 I asked Cheryl what she thinks the Chelsea's future might hold.
14:26 I think that the owners have really worked to uncover the original details that remain.
14:32 There aren't very many and make it the glamorous, luxurious and yet home-like place that it
14:41 originally was in the last Gilded Age.
14:44 So I think, you know, Chelsea, it just, it permutates, it transforms itself.
14:49 One good thing is that it does still have the older residents because they hold the
14:54 memory of the Chelsea.
14:56 You know, you need the word of from generation to generation for the hotel to survive.
15:00 Speaking of tenants, I'm curious to know what it's actually like to live in the Chelsea
15:04 today.
15:05 Luckily, on the same day I meet Sean, he makes a call to Chelsea tenants, Nick and Zoe Pappas.
15:11 They asked for a few minutes to prepare themselves before I come up.
15:14 Ten minutes later, when I enter their apartment, I immediately recognize them from the Martin
15:18 Scorsese documentary, Dreaming Walls, inside the Chelsea hotel.
15:22 Nick's thick wavy hair makes me think of Mick Jagger.
15:25 He's wearing a collared shirt and Zoe's wearing a dark floral print dress.
15:30 Zoe's been a tenant at the Chelsea since 1994 and Nick moved in when they married in
15:34 1997.
15:35 We're in their light-filled one-bedroom unit and all the walls are filled top to bottom
15:40 with artwork and artifacts.
15:42 The couple stayed on through the renovation and watched as Sean's team transformed the
15:45 place.
15:46 Nick is an architect and tells me about the four-figure faucets the owners installed in
15:50 their apartment.
15:51 There are lots of paintings made by Zoe herself, ranging from landscapes to a self-portrait
15:56 and textiles from Romania where she's originally from.
15:59 While not every tenant approved of the renovation, Nick and Zoe are among the majority of tenants
16:04 who are happy with the changes.
16:07 What they've done to improve and beautify beyond description.
16:10 It's so beautiful.
16:11 So when you first heard, okay, because it didn't go through a few owners.
16:15 Yes, that's a third outfit.
16:17 Let's just stick with the third and current one because, well, the second one was very,
16:21 very good, but this one's even better and we're happy he's here.
16:23 They are here with their current investors.
16:27 What exactly did they do and how did things change?
16:29 Nothing changed.
16:30 If you talk to other people, they are going to tell you that they destroyed the Chelsea,
16:35 which is one of the most outrageous thing, outrageous thing they can say.
16:42 Not only that they repaired the building, but they restored the building because if
16:47 you go downstairs on the bar on the, I mean, they redid all that, the windscoting and they
16:53 did it perfect.
16:55 And then they took care of all the, because some of them were basically destroyed and
17:02 they redid them.
17:03 The same thing they did with the ceilings.
17:04 If you talk to anybody who tries to tell you that they destroyed it, that's very far.
17:11 The improvement is amazing.
17:13 So after all that time without guests, how are things going now that they're back?
17:17 The lobby bar is fabulous and it's incredibly popular and they're getting reservations.
17:22 We look forward to just walking through the lobby and hearing the people from different
17:27 countries and different languages and on occasion, I know my wife will attest to this.
17:32 I know she will because we've made friends with people that we've met on occasion.
17:36 It could be in the lobby bar or in the lobby or on the elevator and they know, Oh, you
17:40 live here.
17:41 So tell us about it.
17:42 And they come and visit you.
17:43 And then they come and visit.
17:44 It's the truth.
17:45 It's the truth.
17:46 We have friends in Paris.
17:47 We have friends in London that we met here and we've maintained the relationships.
17:54 I'm not the first hotel visitor to be invited into Nick and Zoe's apartment, and I'm pretty
17:58 sure I won't be their last.
18:00 The warm welcome they gave me, regardless of who I was, felt akin to that original spirit
18:05 of openness and equality that the Chelsea has always seemed to embrace.
18:10 But it also means the kind of hospitality here may feel a little bit different from
18:13 what you'd find in the city's five-star hotels.
18:16 If one thinks of the Four Seasons as a well-oiled machine, very well-structured, well-organized,
18:25 Hotel Chelsea is just an eccentric bird and it's ultimately very human.
18:32 Chelsea, by design, is just a very human place, getting down to tenants living on every single
18:36 floor and them having their own particular needs that are not necessarily the same as
18:41 the needs of, say, a hotel guest.
18:43 And one of the things that's been heartening is, so far, the audience has been self-selecting,
18:50 meaning it's people that sort of have some familiarity with the history of the building
18:55 and they want to stay here and they want to like it and they don't expect a perfect corporate
19:01 experience.
19:02 They know that people live here and they know that Chelsea has always been some sort of
19:09 bastion of bohemia and they're seeking that out.
19:12 And so that's been really nice because it is part of the charm of the building is that
19:16 it is imperfect.
19:18 Cheryl agrees that for the hotel guests, the beauty of the Chelsea lies in its imperfections.
19:23 If one of the regular tenants glares at you in the hallway, don't worry about it.
19:27 They're allowed to be temperamental.
19:30 It's part of the, you know, the friction again is part of the intellectual stimulation, it's
19:34 part of the fun of being at the Chelsea.
19:37 It's a crazy place and you can't watch all the craziness out of it.
19:42 It's still there and that's what's unique about it.
19:45 So if you're a persnickety type and you don't want anything to go wrong, I would recommend
19:50 probably going somewhere else and come here for a good time.
19:54 I'm loving all the conversations I'm having about guests of the past, present and future.
20:00 But there's one other kind of guest of the more otherworldly variety that I'm dying to
20:04 ask about.
20:05 After all, many people consider the Chelsea to be one of America's most haunted hotels.
20:11 So my 11 year old son asked me the other day, he said, "Daddy, why do you only own hotels
20:17 that have ghosts in them?"
20:19 And he was talking about the Chelsea, obviously, but also Bowery is alleged to have ghosts
20:25 and Jane Hotel is alleged to have ghosts.
20:27 And for some reason, the Maritime was also alleged to have ghosts.
20:31 So yeah, I think a building that is this old and has so many illustrious guests is, you
20:38 know, people are bound to feel that there are ghosts there and somehow you do feel spirits,
20:42 whether you believe in ghosts or not.
20:45 One can feel some sort of energy.
20:48 Cheryl believes the ghost may even have helped to inform her research.
20:52 The first time she stayed at the Chelsea, she brought a friend who claims to have second
20:55 sight.
20:56 She said it was the Chelsea was the most haunted place in New York City, except for the New
21:01 York Public Library, the main library.
21:04 But she said they kept her up all night, every night we stayed there for about five days
21:09 and they all crowded around.
21:11 They wanted to tell their stories and they were dressed in clothing from different eras.
21:16 It's not that they all died there, but it was like a ghost hotel.
21:20 There was one ghost who was really loud mouthed and sort of nudged his way to the front of
21:26 the crowd every night so he could do the talking.
21:29 And he must've been from the 60s because every sentence ended in man and he was telling her,
21:33 look, the Chelsea Hotel, it's not about the art man, it's about the life.
21:38 Okay.
21:39 It's about the life you live.
21:40 We decided that perhaps he was Larry Rivers because that I showed her a picture of him
21:44 later and the artist.
21:46 And she said, that's him.
21:48 But it became kind of a motto.
21:50 It became the key for me in writing a book, in fact, because the Chelsea isn't about the
21:56 art produced as much as it's about living a creative life, living a free artistic life
22:03 where you're not judged.
22:05 You can be anyone you want to be.
22:11 For my part, I'm already calling the legendary Hotel Chelsea one of my regular New York City
22:16 haunts.
22:17 I hope I bump into you at El Quixote, the Lobby Bar, or maybe even Cafe Chelsea, the
22:22 French restaurant that's opening in 2023.
22:25 The best hotels in the world are so much more than just places to sleep.
22:29 In the case of the Chelsea, it's a historic hub for the creative culture that makes New
22:33 York one of the world's greatest cities.
22:36 And if you want to read more about our StayList collection of the best new hotels in 2023,
22:41 visit afar.com/staylist.
22:44 We'll link to it in the show notes.
22:46 I hope you liked this episode of If These Walls Could Talk.
22:50 This is Jen Flowers, checking out.
22:55 Ready for more unpacking?
22:57 Visit afar.com and be sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter.
23:00 We're @afarmedia.
23:02 If you enjoyed today's exploration, I hope you'll come back for more great stories.
23:07 Subscribing makes this easy.
23:08 You can find Unpacked on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast platform.
23:13 And be sure to rate and review the show.
23:15 It helps other travelers find it.
23:18 This season, we also want to hear from you.
23:20 Is there a travel dilemma, topic, or trend you'd like us to explore?
23:24 Drop us a line at afar.com/feedback or email us at unpacked@afar.com.
23:30 This has been Unpacked, a production of Afar Media.
23:33 The podcast is produced by Aislinn Green and Nikki Galteland.
23:37 Music composition by Chris Collin.
23:39 And remember, the world is complicated.
23:41 We are here to help you unpack it.
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