It’s summer! Which may mean a road trip, an epic overseas journey, or months defined by summer camps and kids’ schedules. Whatever you want to do—and wherever you’re at in your planning—this week’s episode of Unpacked, has something for you. AFAR’s mighty destination team tackles flight deals, the beauty of shoulder season travel, how to escape the heat (and crowds) in Europe, tips for procrastinators, and so much more.
Read the transcript here: https://rebrand.ly/0badlf4
Discover more episodes of the podcast here: https://www.afar.com/podcasts/unpacked
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Read the transcript here: https://rebrand.ly/0badlf4
Discover more episodes of the podcast here: https://www.afar.com/podcasts/unpacked
----
CONNECT WITH AFAR
Afar.com is a digital and print magazine that publishes travel tips, guides, news, and stories: https://www.afar.com
Get updates on the latest articles, travel news, and more from AFAR by signing up for the AFAR newsletter: https://afar.com/newsletters
Follow AFAR on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AfarMedia
Follow AFAR on Twitter: https://twitter.com/afarmedia
Follow AFAR on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/afarmedia
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TravelTranscript
00:00 I'm sorry, I got very sunburned yesterday, so I think I feel like I look slightly, I
00:05 look sort of like Freddy Krueger after 20 minutes of makeup.
00:08 So I'd like to apologize.
00:09 I'm not seeing it, just a healthy glow, a healthy summer glow.
00:19 I'm Aisling Green and this is Unpacked, the podcast that unpacks one tricky topic in travel
00:24 each week.
00:25 And this week, we're turning up the heat on everyone's favorite topic, summer travel.
00:31 Whether you've been planning for months or you've barely scratched the surface, we are
00:35 here for you.
00:36 I spoke with the two editors who comprise our mighty destination team here at afar,
00:41 as well as the freelance writer who handles our monthly where to go columns.
00:45 They share tips on how to make your dollar go far this summer, where to go in Europe
00:49 to escape the heat and crowds, how to deal with the hell that is flying and so much more.
00:56 I mean, I'm kidding about the flying.
00:58 It's not that bad, but make sure you get that TSA pre-check.
01:01 Okay, let's get to it.
01:07 Welcome everyone to Unpacked.
01:09 I thought we could start by going around and introducing ourselves, explaining our relationship
01:14 to afar and where we're calling in from today because we have some people or a person in
01:19 an exceptional location.
01:22 Anyone want to kick it off?
01:23 Of course.
01:24 I'm Mark Elwood.
01:25 I work for afar every month.
01:26 I try and find you the best places to go for that month around the world.
01:31 And I'm actually doing some in-person research for that kind of work right now.
01:34 I'm in Baja, California for the first time, kind of running around the four capes to try
01:39 and understand what the different cabos are rather than them all getting lumped together.
01:44 So I feel very lucky.
01:45 I'm eating way too much Mexican food.
01:47 It's a little too early to have tequila, but not quite.
01:51 Wait, did you have tequila before we started this?
01:55 That's the real question.
01:56 I'm not really on vacation.
01:57 If I was on vacation, I might have had a breakfast margarita.
02:02 But who is judging?
02:04 Not us.
02:05 Well, great.
02:06 That sounds amazing.
02:07 Hour long session.
02:08 So I hope you've got one within reach at least.
02:13 And then of course, we have the illustrious Chloe Arojaro.
02:16 Yeah, definitely not an adventurous place.
02:19 I'm with my parents right now in Charlotte, North Carolina.
02:24 So kind of the southeast of the United States.
02:27 I've been with AFAR for just over a year now, and I'm the associate editor of Destinations.
02:33 Nice.
02:34 And finally, we have Tim Chester.
02:35 Yeah, I'm a deputy editor at AFAR.
02:38 I'm based in Southern California, so a city called Thousand Oaks just north of LA.
02:44 And I've been with AFAR for coming up for five years next month.
02:47 Five years.
02:49 Amazing.
02:50 You are our mighty Destination team here.
02:54 I guess I should say I'm Aislinn.
02:56 I am the associate director of podcasts here at AFAR, and I'm calling in from sunny Sausalito.
03:03 There are geese honking in the background, and I hope they don't interrupt this.
03:06 Okay, so on a personal level, where are you all at in terms of your summer travel planning?
03:11 Are we in summer right now?
03:13 Not really, right?
03:14 We've got to wait until June.
03:15 I thought it was Memorial Day to Labor Day.
03:18 Is that summer?
03:19 You see, this is Tim, I get very anxious about this, because I'm a planner.
03:23 So I just feel like the minute it gets warm, it's summer, and I should be thinking about
03:28 where I'm going and when, and I still haven't booked it.
03:30 And I think we're going to touch on this.
03:33 When you look at the airfares, especially to Europe, which is a lovely sort of Mediterranean
03:38 summer getaway, they are so eye-watering.
03:41 I keep assuming that if I just refresh it and refresh it, tomorrow they'll magically
03:46 change.
03:47 And so I think I'm in this paralysis of planning, which I think we're probably going to touch
03:50 on.
03:51 Yeah, absolutely.
03:52 How about you guys, Tim, Chloe?
03:54 Yeah, I can definitely share where I am with the summer travel planning, because I'm kind
03:58 of the opposite of Mark, where I am not a planner.
04:02 So I'm right now just starting discussion with my friends about trips from mid to end
04:08 June.
04:09 So I'm the refresher and the hoper that the prices will go down.
04:13 So I really like to wait until the last minute for my trips.
04:18 I know for sure I'm going to go to New York for maybe a week or two in early June, but
04:23 we're thinking somewhere in Mexico for mid to end June.
04:28 Pray for me, Mark.
04:29 If you have any wisdom to bestow upon me, that would be great.
04:33 It's interesting because the Mexico flight prices are staggeringly affordable.
04:39 I played around with my prices and I ended up booking my flight from New York to Baja
04:44 on the nonstop direct JetBlue for 500 bucks two weeks out, which was remarkable.
04:51 You look at anything to Europe, even London, which is always the cheapest starting point,
04:56 and it's triple what you expect to be.
04:58 So yes, go to Mexico.
05:00 And then when you get here, the weather's perfect.
05:02 And then, you know, it's not too late for me.
05:04 There's still some hope to get some good priced deals on these flights.
05:08 Yeah.
05:09 Regarding what you were saying, Mark, our travel news editor, Michelle Barron, spoke
05:12 to Katie Nastro at going.com about when to buy a flight and Goldilocks window, the time
05:17 period that's not too early, but not too late.
05:20 That's when the opportunity for a cheap flight to pop up is at its greatest.
05:23 And the advice from her was for domestic flights, but between one to three months before departure
05:30 or three to seven out for a peak summer travel season, which would have been a few months
05:35 ago, I guess.
05:36 So what's this year?
05:37 And then for international flights, two to eight months out for off peak travel on four
05:43 to ten for peak.
05:44 I will say if you are caught short, one of the big tips and both Tim and I obviously
05:48 are not natively from America.
05:50 So this is more familiar for us.
05:52 In Europe, buying packages is very commonplace.
05:54 So in other words, you buy the flight and accommodation together.
05:58 It's a much less automatic reaction from Americans.
06:02 And that means that the little tab on airlines websites, which says it's vacations with double
06:08 A or whatever, Delta vacations.
06:11 Click on that and look at the flight and hotel packages together, because it's a quirk of
06:16 the way that seats are priced.
06:18 But the seats that are allocated to the hotel space that they have confirmed do not rise
06:25 in price in the same way as the other seats on the plane.
06:29 So when you are buying last minute tickets at peak season, you may find that even if
06:34 you don't need the accommodation, that it's cheaper than a flight alone.
06:39 And it's a great sideways if you're thinking, gosh, how the heck am I getting an affordable
06:44 flight?
06:45 You'd be very surprised what little secrets lie there.
06:47 Well, I would have not thought about that because I feel like any time I see anything
06:51 about this bundle deal between a hotel and a flight, I just automatically assume that
06:56 it is going to be more expensive than if I did it myself independently.
07:00 Because, you know, of course, if I was to have an easier time booking all of these things,
07:07 why would it be cheaper?
07:08 That's really interesting because I have this reaction where Expedia always takes me to
07:12 flights plus hotel and I always just click.
07:14 I just want a flight.
07:15 I don't want a hotel.
07:17 So it's interesting.
07:18 I never thought about that.
07:19 I would encourage you to remember also do it through the airlines for lots and lots
07:24 of reasons, but do it through the airlines.
07:26 Well, I was also going to ask about like the deals that you've gotten.
07:30 That's a great question.
07:31 I have sent people, it's especially things like Thanksgiving when people are flying home
07:37 for Thanksgiving, one of the great hacks or flying home over July 4th.
07:43 If you don't need the hotel room, but you need to get there, it doesn't matter if you
07:49 don't use the hotel room.
07:51 And frankly, you could use one of the resale apps to resell your hotel room so that you
07:56 might end up offsetting the price of your flight.
08:00 You're not going to get full whack for the ADR of that hotel room, but you are legally
08:04 allowed to resell an unrefundable room and that might offset the price you paid as well.
08:09 So think about that.
08:11 That's a great hack, great tip because I think I'm like Tim and Chloe.
08:14 I've always been like, if it's a bundle, run away from that.
08:18 Tim, did you want to share anything about your own summer travel planning?
08:22 Well, I have two things booked.
08:25 One is Legoland for a birthday.
08:28 And the other one is just a big family get together for the fourth in Canberra on the
08:31 central coast, which is one of my favorite spots.
08:34 Little town equidistant between San Francisco and Los Angeles and a couple of thousand people.
08:40 They call it where the pines meet the sea and it's just a beautiful spot on the central
08:43 coast.
08:44 Yeah, I mean, we may go to Mexico, but I'm not into the planning of that yet.
08:49 We tend to get trapped by summer camp and we tend to travel out of summer.
08:54 Yeah, yeah.
08:55 Right.
08:56 There's a lot of reasons that people don't end up traveling in the summer or maybe travel
09:00 during the kind of shoulder season, which I know we'll get to later.
09:03 I wanted to pivot to our Where to Go series.
09:05 And Mark, you write stories for us each month about where travelers should go next.
09:09 And I think the most recent one was July.
09:12 And I think August is coming up next.
09:13 What are your recommendations right now?
09:16 So I would say one of the one of the places to think about going for summer and not just
09:21 because I'm biased is the UK, largely because the pound is so weak against any other currency
09:27 you could name.
09:28 If you've always wanted to go to the UK and worried about expense right now, you're getting
09:32 about a buck.
09:34 It's about a buck twenty five to the pound.
09:36 When I first moved to America 20 years ago, you were nudging two dollars to the pound.
09:41 So I would say if you've ever wanted to go to the UK, you could go to the Edinburgh Festival
09:45 in Scotland in August and you're going to get the best bang for your buck you will have
09:50 done for years and years.
09:53 I'd also send you along other way down under because the Women's World Cup is being played
09:58 across both of the major and to the Vietnamese.
10:01 So you're getting New Zealand and Sydney.
10:03 Go to Sydney if you want to be there, the big World Cup final is in Sydney on August
10:08 20th.
10:09 I will warn you, Sydney in August, I've been in Sydney in August and it can be a bit wet
10:14 and it's not a city that knows how to cope with rain.
10:17 I know Southern Californians will be like, yeah, I know what you're talking about.
10:21 So just be prepared for Sydney to be.
10:23 Sydney's mood dampens a little when it rains because everyone is just a bit bummed they
10:27 can't be sitting outside.
10:29 Mark, I'm curious what you think about visiting places during big festival season versus
10:34 when there isn't an influx of people.
10:36 For example, I much prefer New Orleans when it's not Mardi Gras.
10:40 But Edinburgh, I think, especially in August, there's like several festivals happening.
10:43 You've got the Book Festival, the Comedy Festival, the Theatre Festival, and it's just such a
10:48 fun time to be there.
10:50 See, I think you've identified, I think you've boiled that down.
10:53 I would never go to a place where the festival is based on booze because I think then it's
10:58 just sloppy and messy.
11:01 You go to the Edinburgh Festival and sure, you're going to have a glass of wine at a
11:04 comedy show.
11:06 But the raison d'etre of being there is not to try and not remember the trip.
11:10 And I think the problem is that Mardi Gras, some of those events, and I've been to, I
11:14 don't know if you've been to Edinburgh during the festival, it's very different.
11:17 But it is also super exciting because it brings talents from around the world often at reasonably
11:25 affordable rates and you never know who you could stumble on.
11:28 It's that chance to be at, you know, Taylor Swift's first gig when she was 14, just because
11:34 you lived in Nashville.
11:36 The Edinburgh Festival brings comics from around the world.
11:40 And you might get to see someone who in 20 years time, people like, you were at their
11:44 first show?
11:46 That's insane.
11:47 So that's another appeal.
11:49 I went to Edinburgh for Rough Guides years ago.
11:52 And for one night, I just decided to say yes to every flyer and every person on the street
11:56 who approached me about their show.
11:57 And it's the kind of place you can do that and have a good night.
12:00 Very cool.
12:01 Anything else anyone would like to add about kind of where to go this summer, July, August,
12:07 places that you're particularly excited about from our list?
12:10 Yeah, for Where To Go July, we're spotlighting Idaho as one of our places.
12:15 And I've been a long believer in the beauty of Idaho in the summertime.
12:20 I think I even like talked about this when I was applying for this job at a FAR about
12:24 hot spring opportunities in Idaho.
12:27 So it's such a great place to road trip.
12:30 And you know, there's a lot of crowdsourced resources if you want to find the great hot
12:35 springs wherever you are in Idaho.
12:38 But a lot of times it's kind of asking around, seeing what the locals think and getting directions
12:44 to these kind of places that you wouldn't have otherwise come across.
12:48 And Chloe, can I say, I'm sure we have listeners from Idaho.
12:51 Boise is one of my favorite overlooked places in all of America.
12:56 I think it's used by people on the East Coast as a sort of shorthand for the middle of Nowheresville.
13:01 And I went to Boise on assignment and was staggered by this amazing college town, really
13:08 cyclable, easy hikes nearby, enormous Basque population, Albertsons has a Basque section,
13:16 as a Basque neighborhood.
13:17 It was one of the most eclectic, interesting, unexpected finds.
13:23 So I think Idaho is one of those states that sort of punches above its weight and is very
13:27 unfairly overlooked.
13:28 So I think Chloe and I are both voting.
13:30 We're voting like team Idaho.
13:32 I grew up in Washington, and we would actually road trip to Idaho every summer and go camping
13:38 like in Coeur d'Alene.
13:39 And we loved it.
13:40 This podcast is sponsored by the Idaho Tourism Board.
13:44 We really should confess that now, right?
13:48 Regarding the Basque communities, the little Basque tapas.
13:51 Oh, yeah, like pinchos.
13:53 Pinchos.
13:54 Yeah, it is everything, including red wine and Coca Cola, which is a big Basque drink.
13:59 And I'm not a big fan of either.
14:01 So putting it together was worse than Tom Hanks and his champagne and Diet Coke.
14:06 But you can go to multiple restaurants that are age old, and the Basque community there
14:13 dates back to the big immigrant waves of the late 19th century.
14:18 And the historian there said to me, the shorthand is basically Basque people don't scan as ethnically
14:25 Southern European.
14:26 So they escaped some of the racism that other Mediterranean immigrants did.
14:30 So they were able to head further west.
14:32 But they also speak a language that is not Indo-European.
14:36 So learning English was much harder.
14:38 And they ended up working in shepherding, which is not traditionally a Basque role,
14:43 but that's a solitary task.
14:45 And so Idaho was a place there was a lot of sheep herding.
14:48 And they randomly ended up there and created this remarkable enclave in a very unexpected
14:55 place.
14:56 Very cool.
14:57 Well, pivoting away from the United States for a moment.
15:01 So Europe, which we talked about a bit earlier, does tend to be a big summer destination,
15:06 especially for American travelers.
15:08 Last year, in recent years, we've heard the news about the big heat waves.
15:12 Some people have experienced them.
15:14 What are your thoughts on traveling to Europe during the summer months now?
15:19 I will say, I think the mistake we make is when we picture Europe in the summer, we picture
15:25 the Mediterranean.
15:27 And Europe is very big.
15:29 And a great travel specialist I know who's based in Italy, and she said, I can't get
15:33 enough people into Iceland for the summer, because whatever happens to the weather in
15:38 the Med, Iceland will very likely not be quite so intolerable.
15:43 And the Nordics, the UK, Iceland, Northern Europe, as Southern Europe boils, Northern
15:50 Europe is very pleasant.
15:52 And so don't forget that you can just shift a little further north.
15:55 But again, I'm British, so I would say that.
15:57 Yeah, I was like, I'm gonna wait until the Brits speak before I maybe give a controversial
16:01 opinion.
16:02 Tim, do you want to wade into the argument?
16:06 Yeah, Mark, I remember last year, you recommended the French Riviera, I think, for July, and
16:13 I presumably would stand by that for this year.
16:16 Again, can be hot.
16:17 My mum used to run a bed and breakfast down there in a town called Flyosk and spent many
16:22 summers in the interior and a place called Le Gorge de Verdun, which is a beautiful canyon
16:27 for swimming and pedalos and waterfalls.
16:31 So I miss going to that area.
16:33 I recommend that area.
16:34 It seems to me I wouldn't, I mean, I'm tied with kid holiday now.
16:38 I have school holidays to go with, but I can't see why you would go to Europe unless you
16:43 have to in the summer.
16:44 Go in the spring or the autumn.
16:45 I mean, the hotter parts, especially.
16:47 I mean, also for the crowds reason, right?
16:49 Like that's why I have typically avoided, you know, like at least the really big destinations
16:54 in the summer months, just because I feel like they do tend to get a bit overrun.
16:57 Mark, you mentioned that Iceland is a great destination, but if people want to escape
17:02 the crowds, are there some lesser known destinations that you might recommend?
17:07 I have a soft spot for Slovenia as an alternative to Croatia.
17:11 It has about 30 miles of coastline, Adriatic, North Adriatic.
17:16 Tiny but very pretty port town Piran there and some good wines.
17:21 And I didn't get to Lake Bled, but obviously, you know, that's a big one.
17:24 Yeah, Slovenia would be my pick.
17:25 Have either of you been there?
17:27 No, but I've written a lot about it and I'm trying to put a trip together because I'm
17:31 fascinated by its marketing because it straddles in that fascinating way.
17:37 It markets itself a bit as middle European, that sort of Austrian charm.
17:42 And then the idea that, yes, it might be a tiny strip of coast, but it's sort of Mediterranean.
17:46 And I'm fascinated to see the way that culture kind of manifests because coastal Croatia
17:51 and interior Croatia are so drastically different.
17:54 And I'm interested to see that.
17:55 Yeah, I know you put it down for a where to go next Europe pick.
17:58 But I guess before I talk about my interest, Mark, I kind of want to hear your opinion
18:02 about Malta because you felt so strongly about it.
18:06 I just want to know what is the secret.
18:07 What's the back story?
18:08 Can you tell us the back story of this really quickly?
18:11 I'm obsessed with Malta.
18:12 I stumbled on Malta because I was on a cruise.
18:15 I was on a Silver Seas cruise in the summer last August.
18:19 And Malta was a curious box check.
18:21 I thought it was going to be like many still British English speaking cultures, a little
18:28 unappealing, egg and chips in the sunshine, sort of a bad version of Britain.
18:34 And the ignorance of that kind of staggered me because when I got there, Malta is this
18:41 fascinating collision of Arab culture, Sicilian culture, British culture that has sat at the
18:48 fulcrum of the Mediterranean for millennia and has been important to everybody.
18:54 One of the oldest human excavations, one of the oldest evidence of human habitation anywhere
19:02 in Europe is the Hypogeum in Malta, which only 80 people can go into every day.
19:08 And it was carved out in the Stone Age using stone equipment from the limestone.
19:16 They didn't even have tools.
19:19 But you've got this incredible history and then Malta is coming in.
19:23 There's a new contemporary art museum opening.
19:26 There are three or four new hotels opening.
19:28 There's a real effort to upgrade its tourism because historically it was very much older
19:34 British people going on package holidays.
19:36 And it's such a pity to miss the chance to see Valletta, which was built almost overnight
19:43 as a defensive effort by the Knights of Malta.
19:46 So it has a uniformity of architecture that is Ottoman meets Venetian.
19:52 And it was built as a grid, so it's air conditions.
19:55 So even in August, when you're standing in central Valletta, the beach breezes whiz through
20:02 the town and you aren't sweltering, quite the reverse.
20:05 You're really quite cool.
20:08 And it is the most interesting, eccentric, slightly hard to pin down place.
20:15 Now in summer, it is boiling hot.
20:18 So I wouldn't go in August.
20:20 I'd go in September.
20:21 I would add it as a summer destination.
20:24 Sort of edge of the season because it's outdoorsy and gorgeous and the rock beaches, no sandy
20:30 beaches.
20:31 So, you know, take water shoes.
20:33 But gosh, the water is like Belize or the Maldives.
20:38 And also sponsored by the Maltese tourism board.
20:41 We've got a lot of sponsors for this episode.
20:45 I guess from my pick for European destinations that Mainapia is usually hit, speaking from
20:51 my experience, I lived for, you know, eight or nine months in Logroño, which is kind
20:56 of below the Basque region in northern Spain.
21:00 So I'm very much used to the red wine and cola mixture that they like to drink over
21:06 there.
21:07 Yes.
21:08 It's called Cali Mocho.
21:09 And, you know, I really like it.
21:11 Maybe I'm a big fan of both.
21:13 What is there to like about it?
21:16 I mean, anyone listening, please tweet at us.
21:18 Does anyone agree with me?
21:19 We'll send out a poll.
21:20 What is there to like about red wine and Coca-Cola?
21:23 I think it's just sweetness, bubbliness, yeah, caffeine.
21:26 There are just so many different things to like about it.
21:27 Keeps you awake?
21:28 I don't know.
21:29 I'm just like, I'm getting a little nostalgia that's hitting me.
21:30 But I feel like a lot of people, you know, who go through northern Spain, they're always
21:33 there to do the El Camino and, you know, just to hit those spaces.
21:38 But I think, you know, there's a lot to be said about northern Spain and just exploring
21:42 that region, especially since there are so many smaller cities that you can find.
21:47 And the scenery is just gorgeous.
21:49 Wow.
21:50 Great suggestion.
21:51 Tim, I wanted to briefly return to what you were saying about traveling in the shoulder
21:55 season.
21:56 For those who may not have booked summer travel plans yet and have the flexibility, September
22:00 could be a great time to go.
22:02 Do you want to add anything about shoulder season travel?
22:04 Yeah, definitely.
22:05 I mean, we may have covered this in the Where to Go podcast, but Yellowstone always sticks
22:09 out in my mind.
22:10 The visitor numbers there, it's like a million people in July or August and something like
22:15 70,000 in February.
22:16 Obviously, it's completely different covered in snow and there's some roads closed, but
22:20 a very different experience in the summertime.
22:24 Yellowstone tends to be like a big road tripping destination and of course, summer road trip,
22:28 right?
22:29 They were made for one another.
22:31 Any thoughts about good road trip destinations, either within the United States or elsewhere
22:36 international?
22:37 My favorite road trip is in Italy.
22:39 I spent a lot of my childhood in Italy.
22:41 I worked in Italy.
22:43 If you go north from Venice, you end up in the Veneto.
22:47 And that's where all of the Prosecco in the world comes from.
22:51 And all of the vineyards are on one road between two towns, Conigliano and Valdobbiadre.
22:58 And you can drive along the Prosecco road.
23:00 It is very well signposted.
23:03 And you go to these little vineyards, most of which are just old family run, and you
23:09 knock on the door of a barn and some Italian guy comes out and pours you some Prosecco
23:16 and then you buy a couple of bottles.
23:18 He speaks no English.
23:19 It doesn't matter.
23:20 It is the loveliest scenery to do any time of year.
23:24 I've done it in the winter.
23:25 I've done it in the summer.
23:26 But it is the antithesis of those congested roads in southern Italy on the Amalfi Coast
23:31 where you just think this is LA traffic, but with Italian scenery.
23:36 Go to the Prosecco road.
23:38 Love that.
23:39 Yeah.
23:40 And we recently had a piece on the site about that whole region from writer Dvora Levtov.
23:45 And I didn't realize it was made a UNESCO World Heritage Site in 2019.
23:50 As it should be.
23:51 It should have been a UNESCO World Heritage Site decades ago.
23:54 Because it is just the most charming.
23:57 I think when you go to Napa and Sonoma, even Sonoma, the sense of professionalism in some
24:04 ways is a little disappointing.
24:06 And in the best possible way, most Prosecco feels very unprofessional.
24:10 Mixing alcohol with trips.
24:14 There it is again.
24:15 If you go to the outer grill, I don't know if you have driven in Italy, but if you go
24:19 to the outer grill in Italy, there are amazing roadside service stations, best food on any
24:23 roadside.
24:24 But there's a beer tap.
24:26 The bar has a beer tap.
24:28 And it just feels counterintuitive that they're really encouraging you to have a beer when
24:33 you stop for gas.
24:34 Definitely want to check that out.
24:37 I guess my opinion was not going to be as controversial because since everyone said
24:41 no, I was going to agree with that in general.
24:44 No, because I also, I think especially with the flight chaos.
24:48 I just had a friend who came back from this crazy trip that she took throughout Europe.
24:52 She was hitting a lot of different places and there were a lot of things, different
24:56 airlines had messed up.
24:58 And so, you know, she was kind of hopping from one destination to the next and they
25:02 had lost her luggage at one point.
25:04 And I can't imagine that kind of stress on a vacation.
25:08 But I know that south of France was also something that we talked about on where to go July.
25:12 And we just had a piece come out of all the crazy things that are happening right now
25:16 in that area, like, you know, like the Carlton reopening in March and, you know, the 50th
25:21 anniversary of Picasso's death.
25:22 There are a whole bunch of different exhibits that are going on.
25:25 So, you know, to me, I guess I'm kind of anti-crowd.
25:29 So I would usually think, you know, south of France, like especially in the craziness
25:33 of the summertime, no, but with all of the events going there, you know, I think I might
25:37 take a trip.
25:38 But I guess a big bigger cities like Paris, I was when I was backpacking, I did not know
25:44 that everybody like so much of Western Europe was just closed July and August.
25:51 And so I just remember scouring for a place to eat with my friend in August in Paris and
25:57 not finding anything except the Buffalo Grill.
26:00 So although I will say, historically, all this has been a great hack to visit Paris,
26:08 because it was when the hotel rates were historically at their lowest.
26:12 So if you wanted to visit Paris affordably, you might have to forego some of the restaurants,
26:17 but it was the cheapest time to score accommodation.
26:19 It always felt very counterintuitive that what felt like peak season, Paris would always
26:24 be deserted because the Bobos were all on the other side.
26:27 So the prices have gone up a little bit.
26:30 But you know, Paris, if you want to go to Paris affordably, and you're happy to, there
26:35 are more restaurants than the Buffalo Grill.
26:36 There are a few more restaurants.
26:37 And you can get a bistro.
26:40 Yeah, I think there's like some compromises you have to make because I have some friends
26:44 who are always like, oh, should I wait to go to Paris?
26:46 Should I go this year?
26:47 But I'm because they're like with all these protests going on, and then I'm like, well,
26:51 there's the Olympics next year.
26:53 So you know, there's always a compromise to be made.
26:56 Yeah, I guess it depends on what you're looking for.
26:58 Like if you want affordability, maybe Paris in August is for you.
27:02 If you want, you know, less heat and fewer crowds, maybe you go in September, October.
27:08 Well, any kind of, I know you were talking about Europe, Chloe, but any road trips that
27:14 come to mind, maybe in your neck of the woods or things you've done that you really loved?
27:19 Yeah, I think, you know, domestically, great national parks, Aislinn, you'd probably know
27:23 about this.
27:25 North Cascades in the summertime, gorgeous turquoise color lakes, I never seen anything
27:31 like it.
27:32 I felt the whole time I was hiking, I thought that I was in the Wizard of Oz because of
27:36 all of the bright colors, it was so gorgeous.
27:41 And Tim, kind of to your point about, you know, staying away from the crazy national
27:45 parks that are super popular.
27:47 Near me, there's the Great Smoky Mountains, which is historically the most visited national
27:53 park.
27:54 But I think there's something to be said about visiting during the summertime.
27:57 Maybe I'm a little bit biased towards this.
27:59 But I think because there's the Blue Ridge Parkway that connects Shenandoah and the Great
28:03 Smoky Mountains, even if you know, you find that the Great Smoky Mountains are super busy,
28:09 you know, just driving along the Blue Ridge Parkway, you can come across some incredible
28:13 hikes along the way, or places to camp.
28:16 Do you think that even in the summer going during the week versus the weekend makes a
28:22 big difference?
28:23 Yes, I will say absolutely.
28:25 Because, you know, even though school's out a lot of the time, people still have work.
28:31 Whenever I've hit that area during the week, it is always such a good time to go.
28:36 I actually just came yesterday from Cashiers, which is near the border.
28:41 And during the week, there were so many empty parking lots, and you know, swimming holes
28:45 that were usually be crowded with people, just like a couple of people.
28:49 So it was, I would say, go during the week if you can.
28:53 But during the weekend, you can always find a place to camp.
28:56 Camping for the win.
28:57 Tim, how about you?
28:59 Are there any American road trips that you really love?
29:02 From LA, you can obviously road trip in different directions.
29:05 But a lot of the routes are not that picturesque.
29:07 Like driving to the desert is just a freeway.
29:09 Driving south to San Diego isn't great.
29:13 Going up to Yosemite and so on.
29:14 But everybody does the famous Highway 1 Big Sur road trip, which is definitely worthwhile.
29:21 But the one I like is the 395 up the eastern side of the Sierra Nevadas.
29:27 So you're going from LA up to Mammoth Lakes, beautiful high elevation mountain town there
29:32 for skiing in the winter and lake fun in the summer.
29:35 But you go past a couple of small towns, Bishop and Lone Pine, and you go past Red Rock Canyon
29:41 State Park, which has these very striking red rocks that you drive through.
29:45 And then there's a place called Mono Lake up there, which has these calcium carbonate
29:49 sort of rock spires that come out of the lake and very still water and nobody around.
29:54 Very interesting place to see.
29:57 So that's my slightly less trafficked Southern Californian road trip tip.
30:02 And the other one was about going different times of day.
30:04 Well, yeah, I mean, this is about summer travel, but I always advocate for traveling between
30:09 Thanksgiving and Christmas.
30:11 I think most people are just, you know, the holidays at the end of the year.
30:15 Most people are caught up in the end of year rush.
30:17 It's a hard time to get away.
30:19 But the few times I've done it, it seems like nobody else is really traveling at that time.
30:23 Yeah, you've talked about that.
30:24 I've never, I've always thought that that's a time that I would want to avoid.
30:29 So that's a great, I think that's a great tip.
30:31 It is one of the single best times.
30:33 One of the reasons Art Basel was put into Miami Beach in early December is because it
30:38 was such a doldrums time for travel and they thought they could juice it.
30:43 It's one of Vegas's, it's one of the cheapest times to go to Vegas, one of my favorite places
30:47 in the world.
30:48 Do you want a cheap time to Vegas between Thanksgiving and Christmas?
30:52 Absolutely.
30:53 It's a brilliant tip.
30:54 It's that weird time that people forget you're allowed to take a vacation.
30:58 Yeah.
30:59 Yeah.
31:00 Yeah.
31:01 One year we went to Aspen and the slopes were fairly empty.
31:04 Another year, last year we were in Fiji and no one else around where we were.
31:09 Like I said, hard to take the time off.
31:11 There's a lot happening at that time of year, but it's worth it.
31:13 Yeah, I guess that's why it's cheap.
31:15 People are like mentally preparing for the craziness that is going to ensue.
31:20 But I'm always down to talk about Las Vegas.
31:23 I love that place too.
31:24 Yeah, but not in the summer, right?
31:26 Like we're not.
31:27 You know, I'd even go in the summer because the point is that dry heat, I, you know, I'm
31:33 British so obviously I wilt in moist heat, but the dry heat in Vegas is fine.
31:39 And honestly, most of the time in Vegas you're indoors because you're either at a show, you're
31:45 at the game.
31:46 I mean, I just, I just want to like grind Vegas up into pellets and sort of inject it
31:51 in my veins.
31:54 It's quite a nice road trip from LA.
31:56 I mean, it's interesting the way the topography changes and you get up the elevation and go
32:00 past these enormous solar farms.
32:02 A lot of people fly, do the short flight, but I think it's like five hour drives.
32:06 Not too bad.
32:08 And you've done the EV road trip to LA, right?
32:11 Or to Vegas?
32:12 Yeah, I did.
32:13 I did it in an EV.
32:14 Yeah, a Polestar 2 and made it in about the same time it would have taken to fly with
32:21 all the waiting around at airports.
32:22 And I think it was about 45 minutes of charging each on the first on the way out and maybe
32:28 more like two hours on the way back.
32:30 But yeah, and it cost me about 18 bucks.
32:33 So.
32:34 Oh my God.
32:35 Would you do it again in an EV?
32:36 Yeah.
32:37 I'm not sure I would take the kids, but I would definitely take myself.
32:41 Yeah.
32:42 Yeah.
32:43 Do you think that Vegas is any cheaper in the summer?
32:45 Because you had mentioned that's a cheap time to go.
32:48 Can you get good deals?
32:49 The challenge with Vegas in the summer is that people from Europe flock there.
32:54 Remember all the places that we think of as not summer destinations, especially British
33:00 people, the Virgin and BA flight from London to Vegas is the one that the staff can never
33:04 get on because it's always booked solid.
33:07 And all the places that we think, "Oh, not in the summer."
33:10 All the crazy Europeans go, "Oh, Mexico in July?
33:13 That's brilliant.
33:14 Oh, Vegas in July."
33:16 And they fill those planes.
33:17 So I think there is that weird thing you realize that we may not be a market, but long haul
33:21 is suddenly a market.
33:22 So Vegas is not as cheap in July as you'd assume it will be.
33:25 Yeah.
33:26 I assumed it would always be busy with all of the pool parties going on.
33:29 Full of British people not caring whether they get burned to a crisp because they're
33:35 in Vegas in July.
33:36 Yeah.
33:37 They have Steve Aoki right in front of them.
33:38 Why would they care?
33:39 Well, of course, to get to any of these, we will have to fly.
33:56 And as you said earlier, Chloe, flying has been a bit of a nightmare recently.
34:01 Do you have any suggestions for travelers planning to fly this summer?
34:05 To Tim's point about timing flights, obviously going specific times, you're going to get
34:12 better deals when you fly.
34:14 So taking an either late night, early morning flight.
34:19 I know that a lot of people are against it, but it might be worth it considering the crowds,
34:24 not only beat the crowds, but to also get a better deal.
34:27 I would say that's my biggest tip.
34:29 And that's when I just live by year round.
34:31 I'm very used to crazy hours of flights.
34:34 What I see is, you know, jolt of energy, something new to keep you on your toes.
34:40 So I would build on what Chloe's saying.
34:43 Remember, if you're flying to Europe and you're looking for a better deal, Google Flights
34:46 has a function that I don't think everyone uses as adroitly as we could.
34:51 You can put in your home airport, and then as a destination, you can put the word Europe,
34:58 and it will show you the flights to all the nonstop or the connecting flights, whatever
35:04 you wish, to all the European cities.
35:07 And you can see what is the cheapest hub to fly to.
35:11 And then of course, Europe is covered with budget airlines.
35:14 So once you work out where you go, check what cheap puddle jumping kind of short haul you
35:19 can take.
35:20 But I think when you're worried about prices, do the home airport Europe, and you'll get
35:27 a real sense of where there might be a little slackness in pricing that you could work around.
35:32 So where would that be if we did that right now?
35:34 Where are the cheap spot?
35:35 Or does that change all the time?
35:37 Typically, the UK will be the cheapest because it has the densest concentration of transatlantic
35:42 flights.
35:43 There's also been a big push, which is very convenient for what we're talking about.
35:47 London has two airports, as some will know.
35:49 It has Heathrow, which everyone has heard of, and it has Gatwick, which is slightly
35:53 like, you know, the character who's brought in at the end of a sitcom when it's really
35:58 running out of gas and they hope will juice the narrative, that sort of pale, it's that
36:04 if it were an airport, it's that slightly like, oh, poor Gatwick.
36:08 But they're trying to make it much more of a long haul destination.
36:13 It's where a lot of the cheaper flights from London go from.
36:16 You will see more flights to Gatwick from America.
36:20 JetBlue I believe serves Gatwick, Delta serves Gatwick and is pricing very affordably to
36:26 try and siphon people there.
36:28 So I would look at Gatwick.
36:29 Especially with airlines like Tap Air Portugal, they have things like stopover in Lisbon or
36:34 Porto.
36:35 So take advantage of those opportunities if your airline offers them.
36:40 And I will say there's another thing, there's two things technically, I would say.
36:43 It is a great idea to put an air tag in your bag, put a bathing suit, pair of underwear
36:48 and a T-shirt in your hand luggage.
36:49 If you're checking something, put an air tag in your bag.
36:52 It is more than just sort of something nerdy to do.
36:55 It works.
36:57 And download, there is an amazing flight tracking app called Flighty, F-L-I-G-H-T-Y.
37:04 You can try it for free.
37:05 I pay 50 bucks a year for it.
37:08 Put simply, the airline apps are not built to give you information quickly.
37:15 Flighty was built from the ground up and the information gets to you faster than any other
37:21 source.
37:23 So the key in an issue is to be the first person to know about it so you can get rebooked.
37:27 So you can, Flighty will flag something before anyone else does.
37:33 It has never let me down.
37:35 That's great.
37:36 But does anyone else use the Hopper app for booking or tracking?
37:42 Should we?
37:43 Why should we?
37:44 Tell me.
37:45 I mean, you can basically put in your dates of travel.
37:48 So for example, I have some August dates.
37:50 I'm going to Colorado for a conference.
37:52 And it will essentially tell you whether to wait or buy.
37:55 Buy your ticket now or wait.
37:57 And then it will alert you when prices drop.
38:01 And they have a bunch of hotels and other discounts in there now.
38:05 I found it to be pretty helpful.
38:08 And it's a free app.
38:09 In your experience, does it work pretty well?
38:11 Yeah, I'm more of a planner.
38:13 So I'm usually looking six to eight months out.
38:17 And so I like that I don't have to constantly be paying attention to flights.
38:21 And it gives you a prediction about whether prices are going to rise, drop, et cetera.
38:26 The other thing I was just going to share from my former flight attendant mother was
38:30 that she would always say, take the first flight out if you can.
38:34 Because it's as the day goes on and things go wrong that it's that rollover problem.
38:39 And so she was a big proponent of the early flights.
38:42 So the 6am flight, not my favorite.
38:47 But if you want to avoid problems, that's often a good one.
38:51 Given the potential chaos of summer flying, making sure your TSA pre-check or global entry
38:57 are up to date or that you have them in the first place are good.
39:00 After having to run to the front of a line in New Orleans last year, I finally got global
39:06 entry.
39:07 And there was a very long wait at the time, six months or so to get the interview.
39:11 But I used this thing called Appointment Scanner, which basically just sent me endless texts
39:16 when people canceled appointments.
39:17 And I ended up getting a next day appointment to see someone at LAX for the interview.
39:22 So check that out if you're waiting a long time for a global entry.
39:25 That's great.
39:26 Yeah, get that TSA pre-check, right.
39:28 Tim, did you want to add anything else about flying in the summer?
39:32 No, bring a book.
39:35 You never know how it's going to turn out.
39:38 It is also, but talking about weather, and I think this is something that's worth thinking
39:41 about year round.
39:43 If you do have to take a connecting flight, think about where that connection is happening.
39:49 If the connection is happening in Chicago in January, you're likelier to deal with weather
39:55 than if it's happening via Atlanta in January.
39:58 Conversely, if it's happening in the hurricane belt in August, September, it's probably a
40:04 little riskier than if it's happening in Chicago.
40:07 So think about the weather.
40:08 It's one of the things that's behind the Middle Eastern carriers huge success is that they're
40:12 able to be hubs for global travel because their weather is so reliable and therefore
40:18 flights don't get delayed.
40:20 So think about the weather if you're booking flights to connect because that will make
40:23 a difference.
40:24 Something that I spotted recently was this company called Sensible Weather, which calls
40:28 itself a climate risk technology company, but it's basically offers a guarantee if weather
40:33 gets in the way of your trip.
40:35 They're partners with places like AutoCamp, collective retreats.
40:39 So I think we're probably going to see more of that.
40:40 So it's weather insurance, basically weather insurance.
40:43 So those crazy people who complained when they get to a place and they're like, "Wow,
40:46 the trip was terrible."
40:47 And say to the GM, "Fix the weather."
40:50 I think it's more if your trip gets cancelled or not that you just don't like the fact it's
40:55 raining when you get there.
40:56 Yeah.
40:57 I was like, "Cause that would be an...
40:58 I mean, could you imagine?
40:59 You're like, "I don't like the weather.
41:00 Please give me a refund."
41:01 That would be weird.
41:02 That's not going to be a lasting business.
41:06 Well, we've talked a bit about deals.
41:09 Are there any other summer deals that you would recommend or that you've seen out there?
41:13 I think the key deals, flight deals, you have to change the way you think about this.
41:19 People are obsessed with getting a cheap flight and not obsessed with thinking about a cheaper
41:24 trip overall.
41:26 Don't think of your flight as a standalone expense.
41:29 Think of it as part of your vacation budget.
41:32 And that's why if you're going to go somewhere and you're worried about prices, go overseas
41:37 because the dollar is very, very strong.
41:40 It's strong against the Turkish lira.
41:42 Of course, the Turkish political situation is so uncertain, that is a complicated decision
41:47 to make.
41:48 Very strong against Turkish lira.
41:49 It's strong against the euro.
41:51 It's strong against the pound.
41:52 It's really strong against the yen.
41:55 Don't go to Tokyo in July.
41:56 It'll be wet and horrible and muggy.
41:57 But yeah, August, September is all right.
42:00 Think about if you're paying more for your flight, you can offset that if you're ending
42:06 up in a destination where your dollar goes further.
42:09 And I think rather than just looking for flight deals, think about that a bit.
42:13 Thinking about summer deals, I think towards destinations, as Marcus said, thinking about
42:19 kind of the overall price.
42:21 Last August when I was in Colombia, I thought it was a great destination.
42:25 Especially for people who want to travel abroad, maybe you don't need to go to Europe to experience
42:30 a beach there.
42:32 There are plenty of fantastic beaches in Latin America, places to be.
42:36 Speaking again on Colombia, I was in the Rosario Islands off the coast of Cartagena, and they
42:43 were just gorgeous.
42:44 A lot of people go there for day trips, and then they go back.
42:47 But I opted to stay for a couple of nights.
42:49 And it was just wonderful being kind of me and my friends, the only people on this long
42:53 stretch of sand.
42:55 And I didn't have to pay a crazy amount of money to have a ticket to go over there.
43:01 So I would say, rethinking the destinations, what experience do you want?
43:07 And is this the only place I can have said experience?
43:10 I love that way of thinking.
43:12 Not even necessarily just when it comes to last minute travel, but travel in general.
43:17 Well, speaking of beaches, we should talk a little bit more about them since they're
43:20 such an iconic summer experience.
43:23 And maybe, Mark, you're particularly well poised to speak to this, but do you have any
43:27 beach destinations that you could recommend for the summer?
43:31 Would I send you to Torres Santos where I'm sitting right now?
43:34 Yes, of course I would.
43:35 Although it is much breezier.
43:36 And I think it's actually worth remembering a lot of the resorts, for example, in Torres
43:40 Santos are adults only because the riptides in the water are rather risky to have young
43:46 kids on the beach.
43:48 I think that's one of the things people don't check when you check a beach destination,
43:53 especially if you're traveling with kids, how family friendly the waters are, because
43:59 that can make a big difference to how stressed you are if your kids are kind of wandering
44:04 the water.
44:05 So I would say that I spent my summers as a kid in Italy on the coast of Tuscany.
44:12 And the coast of Tuscany has beaches that are as broad as the Jersey shores, wide swathes
44:18 of golden sand, private beach clubs.
44:21 But they're not cheap, but they mean that everything is clean.
44:24 There's a bathroom, you can get an espresso and they're very family friendly.
44:30 So you've got little kids, they can play in the kids club.
44:33 You've got teenagers, they play ping pong with the local teenagers who are hanging out
44:36 there.
44:37 And I think Italy's, the Tuscan coast is very overlooked because everyone is obsessed with
44:43 the pebbly beaches in Amalfi, pebbly beaches or everywhere else.
44:46 So if I was going to the Mediterranean beach, that's where I'd send people.
44:50 Pebbles are overrated.
44:51 Yeah.
44:52 Got it.
44:53 It's not, who can build a sandcastle out of pebbles?
44:56 When you're on a beach, you want to be building a sandcastle of some kind.
45:01 Yeah, that reminds me of burying a friend in Brighton Beach and it's not a nice experience.
45:08 I know, that sounds terrible.
45:13 Did you like this friend?
45:14 This feels like something you do to someone you don't really want to see.
45:18 Well, we were students.
45:19 So it's student friendship.
45:20 Are you still friends?
45:22 That's the question.
45:23 We're not, but that's Spider-by.
45:24 It was a long time ago.
45:30 My favorite beach I've been to was back in Fiji on the south coast of Viti Levu.
45:35 I stayed at a place called Nanuku Resort and it was during that period of when I mentioned
45:40 between Thanksgiving and Christmas.
45:42 There's not really much development.
45:43 There's a few hotels along that south coast and Nanuku has its own beachside development
45:49 and then they have a parcel of land that hasn't been developed.
45:51 So when you go in the water and look back at the view, there's just nothing there, just
45:56 trees and there's no umbrellas, other people.
46:00 There were about four or five guests there with us when we were there and it's a 500
46:03 acre property.
46:04 So it was like truly no one else around, no boats, nothing.
46:09 They have a reef right there for snorkeling.
46:12 They have a private island.
46:13 You can take a boat and there's another reef there.
46:17 How did you fly to Fiji Tim?
46:18 Because I think for the west coast, it's a really smart idea.
46:20 It's not as far as it is for those of us who are on the east.
46:23 Was it easy to get there?
46:25 And Fiji is about 19 or 20 hours ahead of LA, right?
46:29 It is.
46:30 It's an overnight flight both ways.
46:32 So you arrive at similar kind of time of day.
46:36 So you don't get jet lag, but you lose a day.
46:39 So you leave on a Tuesday, get there on a Thursday and then you come back and you arrive
46:43 on the same day, having had an overnight flight.
46:46 So I was away for seven nights, but I only got five nights at the hotel.
46:50 So the overnight both ways was a shame, but it was easy.
46:54 It was like 10 or 11 hours direct and then two or three hour transfer in a car when we
46:59 got there.
47:00 So yeah, it's not as easy as Hawaii from the west coast, but where I went, much less developed.
47:06 Yeah.
47:07 I was going to quickly plug since I am from Washington, Olympic National Park is actually
47:11 great in the summer and there's wonderful beaches there.
47:14 Nia Bay is like one of the kind of northern most points and it's gorgeous.
47:19 Like you kind of trek to get out there, but yeah, Olympic National Park road trip and
47:22 then beach time is fantastic.
47:23 Yeah, I feel like the beaches must be gorgeous there.
47:28 I think for my pick, Puerto Rico is an amazing beach destination.
47:31 But yeah, those waters off of San Juan can be pretty gnarly, especially with all the
47:36 rip tides.
47:37 But what's kind of special about Puerto Rico is that because you're going to have to rent
47:40 a car to explore a lot of the island anyways, there's so many beaches along the north coast
47:45 that are just gorgeous, like Luquillo, where the kind of waves are just so gentle.
47:51 And then Rincon, which is known as a surfing destination, but that's in the wintertime.
47:56 So in the summertime, you get a lot more relaxed waves, which sucks for surfers.
48:00 But if you are like me, who is not exactly the best on a surfboard, you know, you will
48:06 find it to be a nice kind of surprise to be like, "Oh my God, I was expecting to be
48:10 like world class surfing."
48:11 And you're just like, "Oh, this is just families hanging out."
48:13 Yeah, yeah.
48:14 Has anyone been to Tofino in the summer?
48:19 I was just wondering, I know that's such like a classic.
48:21 I haven't either.
48:22 So I was just throwing it out there.
48:24 Every time we think we're well traveled, there's always gaps.
48:27 That's half the joy.
48:28 It's half the joy.
48:29 Maybe it's most of the joy.
48:32 We'll never run out of places.
48:33 Well, last question, and we did touch on this earlier, but for procrastinators, say you
48:39 end up, it's midsummer, you haven't booked anything.
48:42 Any tips on how to still have a fun and not horribly expensive summer vacation?
48:48 Oh, I can definitely start us off as the resident last minute planner, booker.
48:55 I think the biggest is mindset when it comes to doing a lot of last minute trips.
49:00 It can be hard because you want to go to like a far flung place.
49:03 But I think definitely considering something like a road trip or something more accessible,
49:07 or even doing like a different type of like more slow travel, because if you want to go
49:12 to a destination kind of last minute, it can be just so hectic to plan this crazy experience.
49:18 Whereas from my experience, it's been easier to be like, okay, let's set up a base point.
49:22 Where do we want to be in like a place where we could have like multiple day trips from
49:27 and then pick from there.
49:29 And obviously going somewhere closer, you're going to probably get a better deal if you're
49:33 looking at it in terms of budget.
49:35 But for me, I think it's definitely trying to be less ambitious and be more open to opportunity
49:42 and you know, for a little bit of spontaneity to kind of take it away.
49:46 Marcus right now like, oh my god, spontaneity.
49:49 Why?
49:50 You're just making me anxious even mentioning the word when it comes to travel.
49:55 I'm losing sleep over the fact my summer stuff isn't sorted out and it's three months away.
49:59 So I just, no, I just can't.
50:02 It's like kind of nice about getting, you know, one base and then you're like, okay,
50:07 maybe like a day trip here, day trip here.
50:09 But if you're in just one place where there are a lot of different things you want to
50:12 do there, at least you know for sure you will have a good time.
50:15 It's just my advice to any fellow last minute planners out there.
50:20 Love it.
50:21 But it's also, I will say, it's about, I think the point you make Chloe, you have to be cheap
50:27 and flexible simultaneously.
50:29 You can't be cheap and inflexible.
50:30 So if you're looking for a deal, there will always be something.
50:35 If you've left it to the last minute, you can't say, I want to stay at this hotel in
50:39 Rome on this date and I want it to be the cheapest price possible.
50:44 You're going to have to follow where the cheapness is and embrace that.
50:48 I feel like you just told it greatly.
50:51 And I will say many good adventures have come from like following the cheapness, but also
50:56 many other crazy incidents.
50:58 So that's another podcast episode.
51:04 Maybe just stay closer to home if you're procrastinating.
51:08 I mean, it's easy for me to say in California, but I feel like you're one of the best at
51:13 doing like the local California trips, Tim.
51:16 You're always somewhere new.
51:18 Any other favorites?
51:19 Oh, I mean, yeah, all sorts.
51:22 I mean, Santa Barbara is a really nice city inland, the Santa Inez wine region, all the
51:28 little towns there like Los Olivos.
51:32 I love the Channel Islands National Park, which is just an hour off the coast from Ventura,
51:36 which is just north of us.
51:38 A couple of mountain towns, Big Bear, Lake Arrowhead.
51:41 Yeah, there's a lot.
51:43 That's one of the best things about LA is that there's a lot within two or three hours,
51:46 a lot of variety.
51:47 Yeah.
51:48 And then New York, what about going somewhere where it's winter in our summer?
51:52 That's an interesting idea.
51:54 Have we got any of those in our where to go monthly roundups?
51:58 We've got Queenstown and it's interesting, I was just in New Zealand, obviously where
52:01 it was fall.
52:04 And Queenstown in July, there's a great Maori festival celebration.
52:08 Of course, it's a winter sports destination.
52:12 So when you go down under and you're in the South Island of New Zealand, it's at its prime
52:18 in July and August.
52:20 And Queenstown is a pricey place to go, but there are plenty of alternatives.
52:25 I'm not super outdoorsy, but if you are outdoorsy, New Zealand is like a spiritual home.
52:32 You get there and everybody is like, "Shall we put some crampons on and go for a climb?"
52:38 And I just say, "I'd rather have a martini than everyone else."
52:41 Oh my God, Mark, we need to travel together.
52:44 I feel like you're just speaking my language.
52:46 We'll have a martini, where we're like, "You know what?
52:48 You let me know when you finish your walk and I'll make a second martini.
52:52 I'll have another one with you when you get back."
52:54 I think I'll join you too.
52:56 Anything else you'd like to add about summer travel?
52:58 Don't be put off.
52:59 I think a lot of it has been us sort of talking about the pains.
53:04 And yes, there are more people traveling than ever.
53:06 And yes, it feels more expensive.
53:07 But gosh, when you get there, you are going to forget all of the hassles, all of the costs.
53:14 There's going to be a moment where it feels like it was the best thing ever to do.
53:18 So don't be put off by how intimidating the planning might feel.
53:22 Hopefully we've inspired you as much as intimidated you.
53:26 Every trip is worth it.
53:28 Every trip.
53:29 Well, I agree with Mark.
53:33 Don't let the stress of planning or any other logistical hangups turn you off from traveling
53:38 this summer.
53:39 There are many adventures to be had.
53:41 In fact, I'm likely drinking wine in Eastern France at the very moment you're listening
53:45 to this.
53:46 I'll actually be sharing my story of traveling along the Vallée de la Gastronomie on our
53:51 sister podcast, Travel Tales by FR.
53:53 Season 4 debuts in September 2023, so make sure you follow the show for updates and to
53:59 catch up on previous episodes.
54:00 We'll link to it in our show notes.
54:02 We covered a lot in this episode, so we'll also link to our distilled tips on traveling
54:07 this summer, as well as to several other resources about how to score flight deals, vacation
54:12 rentals and more.
54:14 And we'll link to Mark's stories about where to go in July and August, as well as to his
54:18 broader where to go this summer roundups.
54:21 If you want to read more from Mark, visit mark-elwood.com or follow him on Instagram
54:26 @markelwood.
54:28 You can find Chloe on Instagram @heychloek and Tim @timchester.
54:34 Happy summer travels!
54:36 Ready for more unpacking?
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54:42 We're @AfarMindia.
54:44 If you enjoyed today's exploration, I hope you'll come back for more great stories.
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55:00 This season, we also want to hear from you.
55:02 Is there a travel dilemma, trend or topic you'd like us to explore?
55:06 Email us at unpacked@afar.com.
55:09 This has been Unpacked, a production of Avar Media.
55:12 The podcast is produced by Aislinn Green and Nikki Galteland.
55:16 Music composition by Chris Gollin.
55:18 And remember, the world is complicated.
55:20 We're here to help you unpack it.
55:22 Unpacked.
55:23 Available now.
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