In the latest episode of the Greg Bedard Patriots Podcast with Nick Cattles, Greg and Nick delve into recent developments concerning the Patriots, including visits from quarterbacks J.J. McCarthy and Michael Penix Jr. They also discuss the latest moves in the NFL wide receiver market and explore insights from Greg's column, which features a source detailing the process of selecting a quarterback.
EPISODE TIMELINE:
0:00 McCarthy visited yesterday
4:14 What to expect from Patriots in meetings
5:20 More likely or less likely right now that J.J. is a Patriot compared to last week?
8:48 Michael Penix Jr visited today
9:34 Is 1st contact meaningful?
12:00 Preparing for a trade?
17:00 Where would you rank Penix?
20:03 Washington bring all the QBs in
21:55 WR updates
27:50 % chance that Pats trade for veteran WR?
28:39 Greg’s Column w/ a Source on the Process of Selecting a QB
Check Greg's Coverage out over at www.bostonsportsjournal.com, for $50 on BSJ's annual plan. Not only do you get top-notch analysis of all the Boston pro sports, but if you're a Patriots junkie — and if you're listening to this podcast, you are — then a membership at BSJ gives you access to a ton of video analysis Bedard does on the coaches film, and direct access to him in weekly chats.
This episode of the Greg Bedard Patriots Podcast w/ Nick Cattles is brought to you by:
PrizePicks! Get in on the excitement with PrizePicks, America’s No. 1 Fantasy Sports App, where you can turn your hoops knowledge into serious cash. Download the app today and use code CLNS for a first deposit match up to $100! Pick more. Pick less. It’s that Easy!
EPISODE TIMELINE:
0:00 McCarthy visited yesterday
4:14 What to expect from Patriots in meetings
5:20 More likely or less likely right now that J.J. is a Patriot compared to last week?
8:48 Michael Penix Jr visited today
9:34 Is 1st contact meaningful?
12:00 Preparing for a trade?
17:00 Where would you rank Penix?
20:03 Washington bring all the QBs in
21:55 WR updates
27:50 % chance that Pats trade for veteran WR?
28:39 Greg’s Column w/ a Source on the Process of Selecting a QB
Check Greg's Coverage out over at www.bostonsportsjournal.com, for $50 on BSJ's annual plan. Not only do you get top-notch analysis of all the Boston pro sports, but if you're a Patriots junkie — and if you're listening to this podcast, you are — then a membership at BSJ gives you access to a ton of video analysis Bedard does on the coaches film, and direct access to him in weekly chats.
This episode of the Greg Bedard Patriots Podcast w/ Nick Cattles is brought to you by:
PrizePicks! Get in on the excitement with PrizePicks, America’s No. 1 Fantasy Sports App, where you can turn your hoops knowledge into serious cash. Download the app today and use code CLNS for a first deposit match up to $100! Pick more. Pick less. It’s that Easy!
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SportsTranscript
00:00 This is the Greg Bidard Patriots podcast with Nick Cavins.
00:07 He's Greg.
00:08 I'm Nick.
00:09 You know the deal.
00:10 This episode is brought to you by Prize Picks, largest daily fantasy sports platform in North
00:13 America.
00:14 Download the app today and use code CLNS for a first deposit match up to 100 bucks and
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00:21 If you like the podcast, want to support the podcast, go over to Prize Picks, sign up using
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00:28 It will help us tremendously.
00:30 Greg, let's take a look at some of these visits over the past couple of days.
00:34 We'll start with JJ McCarthy.
00:36 He visited Gillette yesterday.
00:38 My question to you is what questions would you have for JJ during these sit downs?
00:48 Good question.
00:51 I would want to throw him a bunch of curveballs, sort of, you know, get him on his toes.
00:57 All these guys with their agents and stuff like that, they're all prepared for these
01:00 things.
01:01 And really, this sort of goes to the column that I wrote on Sunday about, you know, background
01:09 of the quarterback evaluation process with somebody who's been through it multiple times
01:12 with multiple teams.
01:14 And you know, really it's about, it's not so much the specific questions, it's more
01:18 about the length of the meetings and how much work you're doing with them and putting them
01:24 in different situations.
01:25 And you want to see stamina.
01:28 You want to see them, you know, get through the rehearsed answers that they've gone over
01:32 with their agents.
01:33 And you just want to dial into like, you know, who is this guy?
01:37 Do I want to be in a quarterback room with him?
01:39 Is this somebody that I could see myself working with?
01:42 But you know, specific to JJ, I would want to know more about the Michigan offense and
01:51 why he wasn't put in certain situations, like, you know, having to carry the team or, you
01:57 know, some third downs when he's being asked to run instead of pass and just his general
02:04 feelings on that.
02:05 I mean, to me, and also, you know, what he would think about going to a completely different
02:11 situation than a really good college football team that had been building to become national
02:17 champions, a really good defense, not really put behind often, you know, how how would
02:23 he feel about having to come to be the face of a franchise and having to really ignite
02:30 the offense without a whole lot of stuff around him?
02:33 I mean, I'm sure he'd have normal answers, but those are some of my lingering questions
02:36 about JJ McCarthy.
02:38 When I think of McCarthy, Greg, I don't know if you agree with this or not, but what I've
02:42 read and and what people have said about him, I would imagine he'd pass something like yesterday
02:48 with flying colors, right, because he's the intangibles guy.
02:52 We should all expect that McCarthy did a very good job during this visit.
02:56 Yeah, I mean, I yeah, I would I would think so.
03:02 I mean, again, I think it's it's more about and it depends on how the Patriots run their
03:08 visits.
03:09 Every team doesn't differently.
03:11 You know, one one team did it like a recruiting visit, like, you know, took him out to a fancy
03:19 place for dinner, which the Patriots do at, you know, Davios.
03:22 But it's more about like trying to show them all that they have instead of, you know, another
03:26 team basically puts them through like a rookie mini camp where it's you know, they'll get
03:32 out there with some of the coaches and and, you know, maybe some of the personnel and
03:36 like we're going to run through some plays and some people are going to mess up on purpose.
03:39 Like how does he react to that?
03:41 Like those are all the things that I want to see on a visit and mostly like the stamina
03:46 like you know, how are they going to do with a full day like this isn't college where you're
03:50 limited by the amount of time.
03:52 I mean, when you're a National Football League player, especially a quarterback, it's six
03:56 seven a.m. to ten, eleven, twelve o'clock at night.
04:01 It's a complete sea change.
04:03 Yeah, I don't get the whole recruiting idea, like because this isn't free agency.
04:08 I don't quite understand approaching it like that, but I did want to ask you, how do you
04:13 think the Patriots have handled these visits?
04:16 Maybe you know how they've handled these visits with Elliott Wolfe on top of the program right
04:20 now.
04:21 Do you think they put them through a full day of teaching?
04:25 I would say that they would be.
04:29 Somewhere in between those two sort of teams that I talked about.
04:33 I think that I think it would.
04:34 I think it will be a really long day.
04:37 I think there will be a lot of meetings.
04:38 I think there will be a lot of meetings with Alex Van Pelt with Ben McAdoo, TC McCartney,
04:45 Mayo of course, they'll meet ownership and I think it's it's I think basically I don't
04:52 know exactly how this new regime does things, but I think that they are going to try to
04:58 get them in front of a lot of different people and then people are going to compare notes
05:03 at the end of the day and find out exactly what this what this person is made out of.
05:08 All right.
05:09 Right now it's April 16th.
05:11 We're nine days away from the draft.
05:14 I want Greg Bedard's thoughts on this, whether you want to let us know if you've heard something
05:19 or not, but right now today, more likely or less likely that McCarthy is a Patriot compared
05:27 to how you felt last week.
05:36 I would probably say less likely and this isn't based off of any intel or anything like
05:43 that.
05:44 Trust me when I say that, you know, there's a lot of closed mouths around Foxborough and
05:50 I think this is by design and this is something we'll get into with sort of a surprise visit
05:55 that the Patriots have going on right now with another quarterback.
06:01 You know, I just think I think the Patriots, this is my overall comment on all of this
06:06 stuff and everything that's going on.
06:08 And this is basically what I told you at the outset.
06:12 Elliott Wolfe is going to keep all options on the table.
06:16 You are not going to be able to read into anything.
06:18 You know, this stuff about him pushing for J.J. McCarthy.
06:23 That's not even close to the Elliott Wolfe that I know.
06:26 And so basically, like, I think Elliott is going to come out of this.
06:32 I think he's hopeful that nobody has any idea what the Patriots are going to do.
06:35 And I don't think that they have I don't think they have any idea today exactly an idea of
06:41 what they're going to do.
06:43 But I think they are leaving all options on the table and what they are doing, the way
06:47 they're doing it.
06:48 And to me, you know, you could easily say it's indicative of them taking a quarterback
06:54 at three, but also indicative of them trying to get somebody to offer the bag where you
07:00 get into a scenario.
07:02 And I don't rule this out at all, where the Patriots trade down with some sort of godfather
07:08 offer and then they trade back up and maybe hopefully pick up a extra first round pick
07:15 in the process.
07:16 Like say they went down to, you know, 11 with the Vikings, say the Vikings chalk up, offer
07:23 up what they what the Patriots want, what they would move for.
07:26 So they move back to 11.
07:27 But all of a sudden they move back to six with, you know, say the Giants or somebody
07:32 like that.
07:33 And they're able to get the quarterback that they really want and but also pick up a late
07:38 first round pick where they can get an offensive tackle or a wide receiver or whatever.
07:42 I think I'm down.
07:44 I think all options are on the table and I think it's going to be that way for a while.
07:48 If you want more details about what Greg just said, I actually wrote a column at BSJ a couple
07:54 of weeks ago.
07:55 Greg's talking about the Patriots going the full Monty, Monty Ossoff for it and what he
07:59 did with the Arizona Cardinals.
08:01 That's my second favorite option right now.
08:03 Greg, by the way, as we sit here, my favorite option is you love a quarterback.
08:07 You take the quarterback at three.
08:09 I love the idea and people can check out the column.
08:11 I also did a podcast on it with more details involving picks with the Rich Hill trade chart.
08:17 I love the idea of moving down and then moving back up because I think you can add draft
08:23 capital and still land one of those blue chip offensive prospects, even if it's not quarterback.
08:28 I mean, you if you move back up to six, you could end up with Joe Alt, a franchise left
08:34 tackle and you still have 23 from Minnesota that you now could spend on a wide receiver,
08:40 so on and so forth with even more extra capital that you got in that deal.
08:44 So that's my second favorite option is going the full Monty.
08:48 Let's talk about Michael Penix.
08:50 I think this is what you were talking about just a couple of minutes ago.
08:54 This kind of under the radar last minute meeting.
08:57 This is the first contact Greg reported by the by the top decision makers.
09:03 OK, since the combine, we know Cam Williams was out there in Washington during Drake Mays
09:08 pro day.
09:09 The Patriots did send Cam out there along with I think three or four scouts was the
09:13 reporting back then.
09:15 We obviously know they have a link on this coaching staff from Washington, somebody that
09:20 was on the staff last year.
09:22 But do you think it's meaningful?
09:24 Do you think it's meaningful?
09:25 This for this first contact since the combine between Penix and guys like Mayo and Elliott
09:31 Wolf so late in this process?
09:33 Yeah, I think so.
09:35 And like, you know, one of the things that we won't know is, say, for example, and this
09:41 is allowed, you know, are there are the Patriots set to say go out to Washington or Penix's
09:49 hometown like next week to put them through a workout, even though, you know, some people
09:53 differ on whether you even need to put a put a workout on like what we know, like the Vikings
10:00 and there was another team, maybe Washington.
10:05 Maybe not Washington.
10:08 The Falcons went to Penix and put them through like full workouts.
10:14 Not every team believes you have to do that.
10:15 A lot of teams believe it's just the film that you see and the meeting time.
10:21 And what this tells me is that there at least in this could be a smoke screen.
10:27 It could just be to throw everybody off and keep them guessing about what exactly the
10:31 Patriots are going to do.
10:33 But they're at least putting Penix on par with Daniels, May and McCarthy in terms of
10:42 when you're selecting a franchise quarterback, what you really want to do at the end of the
10:45 day is you want to sort of have equal time or equal, equal information on each guy.
10:54 And then you can sort of stack them.
10:55 You can put them up and you ask them the same questions.
10:59 You run them through the same plays.
11:01 What's their recall?
11:02 Do they understand our playbook?
11:05 All that stuff.
11:06 So at least Penix, and especially if the Patriots go out and work them out, or maybe they already
11:10 have and maybe it's a sort of secret clandestine thing, which happens all the time this time
11:16 of year.
11:17 I think you have to finish 30 visits, I think by tomorrow, and then you can do workouts
11:23 through the 24th.
11:25 So a lot of stuff can still go on underneath the radar.
11:28 But at the very least, I think they are putting Penix on the comparison board for their option
11:34 at quarterback.
11:35 Yeah.
11:36 And Penix, if people are wondering, he visited Denver, he visited Vegas.
11:40 He was put through a Minnesota workout, one of those private workouts.
11:45 The Giants also spent time with Penix, which begs the question.
11:48 You look at these teams, Greg, Denver, Vegas, Minnesota, the Giants.
11:54 There are a lot of scenarios as to why Michael Penix might be visiting so late.
11:58 Is one of them the Patriots possibly preparing for a deal to move on down?
12:04 Yeah.
12:05 I mean, I definitely think it's possible.
12:10 Some of those conversations could be taking place right now.
12:13 I think it's more likely they're taking place next week.
12:17 And if you, sorry, I'm just going to call up the draft order.
12:21 But one of the things that you can do is you can have a prearrangement.
12:32 Like say the Patriots are entertaining trading down.
12:36 But then you get the secondary deal that says, we're going to trade up back into this spot.
12:42 And like, you know, like the Patriots could trade out of three, maybe think they're going
12:47 to pick something up.
12:48 They could even trade back into four with Monty Ossenfort, who is, of course, you know,
12:53 extremely well known to them.
12:56 Ortiz with the Chargers.
12:58 He used to be in Baltimore.
13:00 There's a lot of familiarity.
13:01 Of course, the Giants, Dayball used to be with the Patriots.
13:05 You know, so there are a lot of different scenarios where, you know, you're working
13:08 on two deals at the same time.
13:10 We're working on our trade down, but we're working on a trade back up.
13:13 It's all interesting.
13:14 I think another scenario is that the Patriots could be trying to build value at other spots
13:19 in the draft.
13:20 And what I mean by that is, you know, if you move down to 11.
13:25 Well, now you might be in PENIX territory.
13:29 Depending on who you believe, Ian Rappaport came out a couple of weeks ago and said that
13:32 PENIX is most likely a first round pick.
13:35 He thinks likely in the top 16.
13:36 So if you move back to, you know, if you're looking at 11, maybe a team wants to move
13:42 up to 11 to pick PENIX.
13:44 And now you can try to sell to that team that, hey, we have interest in PENIX.
13:47 If you want us to move out of this spot, you better really make it worthwhile.
13:51 You can do the same thing at 23 if you pull that deal off with Minnesota for 11 and 23.
13:55 Shoot, Greg, you can even do it at 34.
13:58 I mean, if PENIX doesn't go in the first round and he continues to slide and you're sitting
14:02 there at 34, now you've had a visit with him to make other teams believe that you are into
14:07 this guy and it's going to take more for you to move out of that spot because man, oh man,
14:12 look, maybe we weren't so sold on Michael before the visit, but he blew our shorts off
14:17 during that visit.
14:18 And if you want the 34th pick, you better pay up.
14:21 I think there's a lot of different scenarios.
14:23 Yeah.
14:24 And one thing also to keep in mind, remember, so 34 will be the second pick in the second
14:30 round and that's the second day.
14:31 So often what happens is teams get done, they go back and look at their board.
14:36 They're like, geez, I can't believe this guy's here.
14:39 And it could not necessarily, it could be an offensive tackle.
14:42 It could be a wide receiver in this draft and the Patriots, it's very similar position,
14:48 which was one of my big head scratchers.
14:51 When the Patriots had 33, the first pick of the second round, they got offered a trade.
14:56 They decided to pass on the trade and took Rossi Dowling.
15:00 So it's, it's a very similar situation where teams kind of get horny after the first round,
15:05 especially teams maybe who haven't picked or haven't picked in a while.
15:09 They all of a sudden go back and they talk about it and they see a certain player on
15:12 the board and they start getting horny.
15:14 And now the Patriots will be in a better position to be informed.
15:18 One last thing.
15:19 And I dove deeper into this during my pod today when I talked about the Panics visit
15:23 is this idea of if you do have, as Greg said, you could have multiple deals on the table
15:30 and a lot of times you do, and you're kind of playing one deal off of another deal.
15:34 The other possibility here is that, you know, you could be having this visit with Panics
15:40 to try to sell other teams outside of Minnesota that you have a deal in place with Minnesota.
15:45 Because if other teams think, oh, wait a minute, that they have Panics visiting, maybe they're
15:49 going to draft Panics at 11 and 23.
15:51 So for example, if you're trying to sell the Giants and the Giants have reportedly wanted
15:57 a quarterback, John Mara came out and said that he's given the front office to green
16:01 light to, you know, go after a quarterback if that's what they think is what's in the
16:05 best interest of the football team.
16:08 Brian D'Abo let's say loves Drake May because he reminds him of Josh Allen or something,
16:12 right?
16:13 And the Giants want to move up to six.
16:15 The Patriots, they could say, look, we have a great deal on the table with Minnesota.
16:19 The Giants, if they're trying to call the Patriots bluff, you have Panics in for a visit.
16:24 So you make it look like you're on the precipice of dealing out a three and you're going to
16:29 be sitting at 11 and 23 where you can draft Panics to try to put pressure on the Giants
16:34 because now the Giants look at it and go, wait a minute, they have Panics in for a visit.
16:39 Maybe that Minnesota talk is legitimate and maybe you get the Giants to up their offer
16:43 and now you move only back to six.
16:46 So you don't have to worry about moving down and then back up.
16:49 There's just a million different possibilities.
16:51 Panics is the point and we don't know, nobody knows why Panics is in town.
16:55 It could be legit interest by the Patriots.
16:57 It could be gamesmanship.
16:58 With all that said, Greg, where would you rank Panics right now?
17:02 We have the list of six guys, right?
17:04 We've got the Caleb Williams, May Daniels.
17:07 You've got McCarthy, you've got Panics, you've got Knicks.
17:10 Where do you put Panics?
17:12 So I've changed my rankings ever so slightly.
17:17 So obviously Caleb Williams is number one.
17:21 Nick May is now 2A for me and I would put Jaden Daniels as 2B for me.
17:28 I would be fine with either of those guys for the Patriots at three.
17:33 I do have JJ McCarthy fourth and Michael Panics fifth.
17:39 I would put where I would draft Michael Panics, I would say anywhere from 12 and down.
17:49 I would be comfortable.
17:50 I just think he throws the crap out of the ball and I'll deal with everything else.
17:54 I'm not that scared of the injury thing.
17:57 I just, like I need to come out of this draft with a quarterback.
18:01 He might not be the long-term, long-term for this franchise, but he's pretty freaking good
18:07 and he has a chance to be outstanding.
18:11 His passing is next level.
18:13 And that's it for as far as possible starter for this team at any point.
18:19 That's the end of my list.
18:20 I'm not doing Bo Nicks.
18:22 I'm not doing Spencer Rattler.
18:23 I'm not doing any of these guys.
18:25 Like that, that is my list for the Patriots and guys that I would be at least somewhat
18:32 happy with.
18:33 I'm not huge on McCarthy, but I do see the value in him at least getting the program
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20:02 Before we get to some wide receiver talk, Greg, I've got one more question for you regarding
20:06 visits.
20:07 I don't know if you saw this today, but I believe it was your buddy, Bert Breer, with
20:11 the report that Washington's bringing all the quarterbacks in.
20:16 They're bringing everybody in for one night.
20:19 This is like, I saw Andrew Callahan quote tweet it, say it's like the bachelor of quarterbacks
20:24 in Washington.
20:26 I know people will say, "Well, that'll give the owner a chance to meet all of these guys
20:30 in one shot," but what do you make of that approach by the commanders?
20:34 Yeah, it's fascinating.
20:37 I've never really heard of it before.
20:40 Part of me is surprised that, first of all, that the schedule worked out that way.
20:47 And secondly, that all of the agents agreed to it.
20:52 Yeah, I don't know.
20:54 It's like speed dating.
20:55 It's like, I don't know.
20:57 This is fascinating.
20:58 I hope somebody gets the story about how this all worked because I will be fascinated to
21:04 hear that they have them on a clock and they each switch rooms after an hour.
21:14 I don't know.
21:17 To me, it might be somewhat owner-oriented.
21:20 You never know with these rich guys when they're available.
21:24 And the newer owners always stick their nose in more than they should.
21:28 So yeah, but definitely interesting.
21:31 It just goes back to what you mentioned, though.
21:33 Some teams want to put these guys through the ringer for a full day.
21:38 You can't put everybody through the ringer for a full day if you got them all in at once.
21:42 So it is a very interesting approach.
21:44 All right, let's do some lightning round wide receiver updates before we get to your column
21:50 on the process of selecting a quarterback, which I loved, by the way.
21:54 That came out over the weekend.
21:55 A lot of wide receiver news over the past couple of days with these, what would you
22:01 call them?
22:02 Camps.
22:03 They're not camps.
22:04 They're voluntary, right?
22:05 Yeah, voluntary workouts.
22:06 Voluntary workouts.
22:07 There we go, Nick.
22:08 All right, so let's start with Philadelphia.
22:11 Devante Smith gets the bag from the Eagles.
22:14 Could this make AJ Brown available?
22:17 I hope so.
22:21 Whether that happens, it's always tough to tell with the Eagles because they are wizards
22:29 at the cap in how they work things.
22:31 Howie Roseman is among the best in the league.
22:36 I just know that they're going to have to do something.
22:38 If they keep AJ Brown, they are going to need to do something to his contract.
22:43 Can they do that?
22:46 I don't know.
22:47 But I'm hoping that at the end of the draft and all this stuff, I'm hoping that whether
22:52 it's AJ Brown or IU or Cortland Sutton, all these guys are available and the Patriots
22:58 can sort of check that off on something that has driven people crazy, who certainly lack
23:05 patience and their inability to, at this point, nab a wide receiver one.
23:10 An interesting part of this is not a lot of people likely paying attention to this in
23:14 New England, but the Eagles, their salary cap executive actually is leaving.
23:20 And his name is Jake Rosenberg.
23:22 He'd been with the Eagles for 12 years.
23:24 So he was their contract management guy that came out in late March.
23:28 So about three weeks ago.
23:29 So it'll be kind of interesting to see how they handle these contract negotiations and
23:35 some of the games and stuff that Greg mentions without Rosenberg.
23:38 How much of a pivotal piece was he to the operation?
23:42 We'll probably find out.
23:44 Cortland Sutton.
23:45 Yep.
23:46 Cortland Sutton is going to be holding out.
23:47 Are you still on Cortland watch?
23:49 Oh, for sure.
23:52 You know, whether that happens, I do think a lot of these teams, Nick, I think because
23:56 these drafts have become so receiver rich, I do think a lot of them are they're not in
24:02 a hurry and they want to see which way the draft shakes out.
24:07 And even, you know, when they go, when they come in for a rookie mini camp or even in
24:11 the mandatory mini camp or even the early stages of training camp, they want to see
24:16 what they have and then sort of go from there and see which guys like, okay, Cortland wants
24:22 X, Y, and Z.
24:23 Well, we just drafted this kid and look at him.
24:26 He's he, you know, I can see him in six games being better than Cortland.
24:29 So why don't we get rid of Cortland?
24:31 So a lot of things are in flux.
24:33 Want to go back to AJ Brown because I got another question for Cortland.
24:37 What would you be willing to give up for AJ Brown?
24:40 AJ Brown, another benefit, Nick, also to waiting until after the draft about wide receiver
24:48 one is now you're getting into future picks.
24:50 And I really want to use where the Patriots are with their picks, with their high picks
24:56 in each round.
24:57 I really want to use these on this team.
24:59 Like, I don't want to send them somewhere.
25:03 And so I would probably say I was probably say a future second or third or some sort
25:12 of combination thereabouts.
25:15 Like, you know, if if he agrees to the contract and it sounds good and it's not through the
25:21 nose, I'd be OK with a future second.
25:24 So if Philly called you Friday morning and said, 34th pick for AJ Brown, he's yours.
25:31 You don't do it.
25:32 Nope.
25:33 OK.
25:34 Cortland Sutton, is he more of a fourth round guy?
25:36 Future fourth, future third?
25:38 Yeah, I would say.
25:41 It might be a future third, but somewhere in that ballpark.
25:44 All right.
25:45 CD Lambs holding out any chance Jerry Jones thinks about trading him?
25:48 Nope, nope.
25:49 They will pay him.
25:50 I talked to I think it was Stephen Jones talked about today or Jerry Jones, whoever was talking
25:55 to reporters and, you know, they asked about their inactivity and he said, well, we need
26:00 to pay, you know, X, Y and Z.
26:02 And and CD Lamb was one of those guys.
26:05 I don't think he's going anywhere.
26:06 All right.
26:08 Another guy, Rick Spielman, said a pipe dream offer from Minnesota to New England to move
26:14 up to three could include Jefferson or Darasau.
26:19 Any shot Justin Jefferson is out there for the taking as part of a deal for three?
26:26 Do I think it's possible?
26:28 Yes, I don't think the chances are great, but, you know, they do have Jordan Addison
26:34 who's ready.
26:35 He's basically a number one.
26:37 And you could see.
26:39 Kevin O'Connell, depending on the the guy they want at three, how high the ceiling is.
26:45 And let's just say it's Drake May.
26:49 I could I could see them being OK with I mean, and, you know, they wouldn't have to pay
26:54 Justin Jefferson, you know, what he's worth.
26:58 The Patriots would have to do it.
27:01 Changing that for a franchise quarterback with not much on the roster.
27:07 Yeah, I think I could see that being potentially offered.
27:12 T Higgins said he anticipates playing for the Cincinnati Bengals this year.
27:16 Does it matter what T Higgins anticipates?
27:21 A little bit, because I think he's right.
27:23 This is again, this is Mike Brown that we're talking about, and he's he's not going to
27:29 give in.
27:30 He's not going to really look to the future.
27:34 He's Mike Brown does not.
27:36 You know, if T Higgins threatens and I think he asked for a trade, Mike Brown does not
27:41 react well to that stuff.
27:42 I fully expect T Higgins to play the year out for the Bengals.
27:45 One more before we get to the process of selecting a quarterback.
27:48 Let's do another percentage here with you.
27:50 What percentage would you put right now on the Patriots trading for a veteran wide receiver?
27:56 Who?
27:58 Good question.
28:00 A percentage, OK, like.
28:04 Of course, it's this is before knowing how high they draft a receiver in this in this
28:10 draft.
28:11 Yes, it would be different.
28:12 Let's say say they trade down and they pick Roma Dunzey at like 11 or something like that.
28:17 Like obviously that changes things, right?
28:19 But let's just go in a vacuum.
28:23 The chances of the Patriots trading for a number one wide receiver.
28:31 I would say.
28:32 Fifty two percent.
28:33 I love it.
28:34 Fifty two percent shot.
28:35 All right.
28:36 Well, so we'll see what happens.
28:37 Greg, meanwhile, is a big fan of the Patriots.
28:38 He's a big fan of the Patriots.
28:39 He's a big fan of the Patriots.
28:40 He's a big fan of the Patriots.
28:41 He's a big fan of the Patriots.
28:42 Greg, meanwhile, wrote a great column over the weekend.
28:43 You all should check it out.
28:45 He spoke to a guy who's worn many, many hats in the NFL coach.
28:50 Oh, see, front office has worked for multiple teams that have been responsible for drafting
28:55 quarterbacks.
28:56 It was some really good stuff from Greg.
28:59 And I would say there's you know, there's more than just a beer goggles comment.
29:01 I know the beer goggles comment has been thrown out there roughly fifty five times in the
29:05 last two days.
29:07 But there's a lot more to that column than just that one that one quote, which was a
29:12 great quote.
29:13 All right.
29:14 So let's start here, Greg.
29:15 The difference between the interview process at the combine.
29:19 At the visits and the zooms, because I think a lot of people say, oh, they already talked
29:22 to this guy.
29:24 What's the difference between the visit interviews that Michael Penix is going through today,
29:30 the zoom interviews that he might, you know, have to do after this or even before this
29:35 in the combine?
29:37 I mean, basically it's anything before anything before 30 visits or like, say, individual
29:47 workouts, you know, late in the draft process.
29:51 To me, none of that stuff really matters.
29:54 Like, you know, all the nonsense about like, oh, the Patriots met with this guy at the
29:58 combine and the Patriots met with this guy at the senior bowl, at least when you're talking
30:03 about picking a franchise quarterback.
30:05 And we're not talking about, you know, drafting a linebacker in the second round or even like
30:10 looking for a backup QB who might have some upside.
30:13 Like that's different.
30:14 We're talking about picking a potential franchise quarterback for your team.
30:19 To me, if you don't have some sort of, and it doesn't matter whether it's a 30 visit
30:25 or it's an onsite visit or whatever, you need at least one, like very lengthy four, six,
30:33 eight hour day with these guys to make some sort of assessment.
30:38 So anything else, any all-star game, any, even their pro day, the combine, any of that
30:46 stuff, all that stuff is meaningless when it comes to picking a franchise quarterback.
30:52 If somebody failed during this visiting process, would we even hear about it?
30:58 No, no, no.
31:02 You know, that's why like, uh, you know, cause I'll get questions from people.
31:05 They're like, how did the, how did so-and-so's visit go?
31:08 Like, I mean, have you ever in the history of the NFL heard something like, oh yeah,
31:14 that guy's visit with so-and-so went terrible.
31:17 He's awful.
31:18 He's off their board.
31:19 Like it just, it doesn't happen.
31:20 I mean, you are, you have to remember like, you know, the player and the agent are also
31:26 somewhat doing you a favor.
31:28 I mean, they're taking a block of their time now to travel over and all this stuff.
31:33 So the last thing you want to do, if you're any sort of franchise with self-respect is
31:39 to trash some guy on the way out the door after he just made that investment in you.
31:46 I know it's a two-way street, but yeah, those are sort of my feelings on that.
31:51 Yeah.
31:52 Relationships matter.
31:53 And if you do that and you, you pissed the agent off now, you might have an issue with
31:56 the next guy.
31:57 Right.
31:58 So that's a good point.
31:59 That's a good point.
32:00 I thought some of the comments from this source in your story were some of the best stuff.
32:03 And that's about the coaching staff in the front office.
32:05 Greg, how crucial is it that the staff in the front office can actually come to a consensus,
32:11 can agree on the quarterback that they pick?
32:14 Yeah, it's, it's everything, Nick.
32:16 And what, what surprised me the most probably, you know, doing this story was about, and
32:22 I guess it shouldn't be all that surprising in hindsight and sort of, you know, the way
32:26 some of these teams do business, but there, there are some teams and he used, uh, this
32:34 source used examples of, uh, and I'm trying to find it.
32:38 Yeah.
32:39 Kenny picket Malik Willis just off the top of my head.
32:42 Miss Trubisky was probably the biggest one.
32:44 Basically this source said the bears coaches didn't want Miss Trubisky.
32:48 Yep.
32:49 Um, Malik Willis, the coaches in Tennessee didn't want Malik Willis.
32:53 Kenny picket in, in Pittsburgh, Trey Lance, you know, he basically like, you know, those
32:59 are at least when you're talking about Trubisky and Trey Lance, you're talking about two of
33:03 the biggest whiffs in recent NFL history in drafting a quarterback, um, high up.
33:10 And um, you know, we all, I think we all knew like Malik Mill, Willis was way overdrafted,
33:15 um, by the Titan, certainly an intriguing prospect, but somebody who needed a lot of
33:20 work and I think he was drafted in the middle of the first round, something like that.
33:24 But um, I think, you know, if, and this is where I think Nick and we've talked about
33:31 this, this is where, and I know there are some Patriots fans who are frustrated by Elliot
33:35 Wolf and the coaching staff and the quote unquote Packer way and stuff like that.
33:42 But in, in just, just that Alex van Peltz, the offensive coordinator and not a tight
33:47 pants Shanahan offspring du jour.
33:52 Um, these guys are in alignment, like, you know, between Elliot Wolf and Alonzo Highsmith
33:59 and Alex van Pelt and Ben McAdoo, you were talking about four guys who have a very long
34:05 history together, uh, of doing a bunch of different things with the Packers.
34:10 Um, they've each gone on to do other things.
34:13 So they're bringing some insight that way, but like, I think the chances are absolutely
34:19 unless the only possibility for me is if Gerard Mayo through his, uh, ability to, let's say
34:27 manipulate Robert Kraft.
34:29 Um, if Gerard Mayo, because I don't know, maybe he's aligned with Matt grow or Cameron
34:37 Williams or I dunno, maybe there's a, and again, I don't envision this, but the only
34:43 potential screw up I see for the Patriots is if Gerard Mayo is listening to somebody
34:48 who says you need to take X and Mayo manipulates craft to basically force Elliot Wolf to do
34:55 that.
34:56 Outside of that, I think the, the, the, uh, the odds are extremely low that Elliot Wolf,
35:03 Alonzo Highsmith, Ben McAdoo, and Alex van Pelt, that they're all not going to be in
35:08 lockstep on who the next quarterback is.
35:10 They are going to have a plant.
35:12 They will have sat down and said, all right, with each of these quarterbacks, all right,
35:18 what's the plan for this guy?
35:19 How are we going to run the offense with this guy?
35:21 Is that optimal for this offense?
35:23 Is it optimal for you?
35:24 What about, and that's more of a Jaden Daniels thing.
35:27 What about Drake may, how far away is he?
35:30 How, how coachable do you think he is?
35:33 Is he going to be screwed up if we put them in there?
35:35 Can he run your offense?
35:36 Um, is it better with which quarterback?
35:39 And you go through each of these quarterbacks and they're going to do that.
35:43 And I think at the end of the day, to me, there's little questions that the four of
35:47 them at the very least Wolf Highsmith van Pelt and McAdoo, they're all going to be in
35:51 lockstep on exactly who they want, what the plan is.
35:56 And to me, that's the biggest thing in this game.
35:58 And it gives the Patriots a chance.
36:00 Greg has a lot of info in his head.
36:02 So before we get tweets thrown at us and hate mail via email or whatever, what I do now,
36:08 Malik Willis was 86 in the draft.
36:09 He was picked in the third round.
36:11 So, oh, he was.
36:12 Yeah.
36:13 So before people lose their minds and we're talking about just, we just want to be accountable
36:16 podcast.
36:17 So Willis went 86.
36:18 All right.
36:19 I got a couple more questions for Greg before he bounces to go to the Bruins game.
36:23 Uh, this episode brought to you by prize picks, largest daily fantasy sports platform in North
36:28 America.
36:29 Download the app today.
36:30 Use code CLNS for a first deposit match up to a hundred bucks.
36:33 Also check them out over at BSJ 50 bucks for the year for the fine work.
36:37 The gentlemen do over there.
36:38 Uh, the Patriots, another part of this Greg that I found your column that I found very
36:43 fascinating was when does the circle of trust, so to speak, start to whittle down and you
36:50 got to feel like we're almost at that moment, right?
36:53 Are we, are we close to that day where, okay, everybody else out of the room and now it's
36:59 for the folks who are going to handle this pick.
37:01 It's time for us to, to come to some decisions.
37:04 Yeah.
37:05 I think, um, I think it's going to be very soon.
37:12 Um, you know, after the 30 visits now, you know, there's still a chance that say Elliot
37:17 Wolf sends Alonzo Highsmith or Ben McAdoo or Alex van Pelt, maybe all three of them
37:23 off to do visits.
37:25 Maybe, you know, recheck in with may and Daniels and JJ McCarthy and Pennix.
37:29 And like, you know, I, I think, I think the, you know, the small working group to me will
37:36 probably at the least meet this weekend.
37:40 And so that's what P what people need to understand about this is like, you know, from what I've
37:44 heard, the Patriots have been extremely inclusive in the process of a complete departure from
37:49 Belichick where there's been a lot of full staff viewings of film, giving opinions on
37:55 this guy and all that stuff.
37:57 Um, there's been a lot of that going on.
37:59 Um, but I think at some point and you know, I would anticipate the small working group
38:06 being Elliot Wolf, Alonzo Highsmith, Mayo, and possibly the crafts at some point.
38:14 My question is, I don't, is grow going to be in that group?
38:17 He could, the crafts could say, I want him in there in that.
38:21 But I think that's the small working group where a lot of people know people's feelings
38:25 on certain things and they know the way their board is stacked right now, but they'll go
38:30 behind closed doors.
38:31 And that group will come to a consensus and move things ever so slightly and do a horizontal
38:36 stack, which is now you're comparing, um, say at 34 at 34, if, um, Suma Matias on the
38:46 board or, uh, AD Mitchell is on the board.
38:53 Who are we taking in this circumstance?
38:56 So then you go through, through that process.
38:58 And I think that, I think that small working group is going to start working very soon.
39:03 Last one for you mentioned the beer goggles comment.
39:05 And the point from the source was there's not going to be five or six quarterbacks coming
39:10 out of this draft.
39:11 Okay.
39:12 That, that ended up being like good NFL starters.
39:14 He says, you know, two, right?
39:16 He says at least, you know, maybe two, maybe outside shot of three.
39:21 I know we got your quarterback rankings earlier, Greg, but of course we got to play, you know,
39:25 the potential game and all of that.
39:27 If Greg Bidart had to lay his money down on the table right now, which two QBs does he
39:32 think does he think have the best chance of working out at the NFL level?
39:39 Just for the Patriots or team du jour team du jour.
39:43 Okay.
39:44 So, um, I think for sure, Caleb, Caleb, Caleb Williams.
39:48 And I think, I think he's going to be a star.
39:52 Um, this is a really good question.
39:58 Um, I'm going to go, it's close between Daniels and may for me.
40:07 Um, and there's a lot of like a lot, a lot about Daniels.
40:12 Um, I'm going to say may I just like, I like his tools and makeup.
40:18 And all that stuff, the background with the family and all that stuff.
40:22 Like I, those guys like really like hit a lot.
40:24 Now I will say this, Nick, you know, sort of a alternative angle to me.
40:30 Um, the question that I would have, and we can both answer it, um, which, which two quarterbacks
40:38 do I think the Patriots view as having a chance to be a franchise quarterback for them, you
40:46 know, say they get down to it and they're like, out of these five, six guys, these are
40:50 really the only two that we envision.
40:52 Yeah.
40:53 To me, it's may and Pennix and Pennix in a tree now that, that they would be like, either
41:00 we're getting may or we're trading back and we're taking Pennix and we're okay with that.
41:06 Interesting.
41:07 So not McCarthy.
41:08 I thought you were going to say may and McCarthy, but may in panics.
41:12 Well maybe that's why panics came in so late folks.
41:14 All right.
41:15 Well, thanks Greg.
41:16 I'm Nick.
41:17 He's going to a Bruins game.
41:18 I'm going to my living room until later this week.
41:20 Uh, it's the Greg Bedard Patriots podcast with Nick cattle.
41:22 [inaudible].
41:27 [inaudible].
41:32 [inaudible].
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