Interview with Chef Michael Mina about the importance of the guest experience, building a restaurant management company, and embracing technology for the future.
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00:00Welcome to Restaurant Influencers, presented by entrepreneur.
00:09My name is Sean Walchef, founder of Cali BBQ and Cali BBQ Media.
00:15In life, in the restaurant business, and in the new creator economy, we learn through
00:20lessons and stories.
00:21We are so grateful to Toast, our primary technology partner, for believing in this crazy restaurant
00:28tour.
00:29I told them that we were going to create a media company, and I was going to create a
00:31bunch of content, create a show now on Entrepreneur, and interview the greatest restaurant tours,
00:38the greatest storytellers on earth.
00:40And here we are.
00:41I have Chef Michael Mina.
00:43I have been a huge fan, following from afar.
00:46I am here in San Diego, but you are prolific worldwide.
00:50And now you get to join us on Restaurant Influencers.
00:53Over 40 restaurants.
00:54How many restaurants do we have now?
00:57Right now, 32 restaurants, 32 restaurants, 32 restaurants.
01:02I've read on the website 2,800 team members, 7,200 unique recipes.
01:08I'm sure a lot of those numbers go up and down.
01:12We're so grateful to have you on the show, Chef.
01:14Welcome.
01:15Thank you so much.
01:16Thank you, Sean.
01:17Thanks for having me.
01:18I'm excited.
01:19We're going to start with our favorite random question, which is where in the world is your
01:22favorite stadium, stage or venue?
01:26Stadium, stage or venue?
01:29I would say the Berkeley Bowl.
01:33The Berkeley Bowl?
01:34Wow.
01:35Yeah.
01:36That's awesome.
01:37Why the Berkeley Bowl?
01:38Might be because of good memories, you know?
01:39Yeah.
01:40What was a good memory there?
01:41You know what?
01:42First show I saw there was Joe Jackson, and it was just kind of magical.
01:48It's always shows like that, but yeah.
01:50Very cool.
01:51Okay.
01:52All right.
01:53We'll go Berkeley Bowl.
01:55One of the things that we love to do is we'll talk to Toast Entrepreneur.
01:59We're going to put on in the future some incredible hospitality event, more of a TEDx style, not
02:05like a panel where people, old trade shows.
02:08We're talking about new.
02:10I want Chef Michael Mina to come take the mic and give us a story.
02:15I want you to bring us back to 1997 when you won the James Beard Award for rising chefs
02:21in the U.S. and talk about winning that award, and then where have you come now?
02:28Wow.
02:29Well, thank you.
02:30Well, winning that award probably still to this day is one of the handful of biggest
02:37highlights, if not probably in the top three, because it really was a goal that I had set
02:47for myself and just the people that had won it before me and looking at the fact that
02:54you were really competing against everyone in the country that was under 30.
03:00So I think that it was something that I'll never forget.
03:04I'll never forget that moment.
03:06I'll never forget.
03:08And then I had the great honor of having the next year getting to give the award to the
03:15next recipient, who was Marcus Samuelsson, but I got to do it with Julia Child.
03:19So it was really cool.
03:20Wow.
03:21So you had two really cool years in a row out of it.
03:24When you won the award, how many restaurants were you operating?
03:29At that point, it was three restaurants.
03:32Three restaurants.
03:33Yeah.
03:34Yeah.
03:35Yeah.
03:36There was just the two, Aqua in San Francisco and then Aqua at the Bellagio, and then one
03:42other restaurant in San Francisco at that point.
03:45I would love for you to share with our audience a story about Andre Agassi.
03:49Oh, okay.
03:50Great.
03:51Well, there's so many because he's obviously such a special person, but I'll tell you how
03:57competitive he is.
03:58Okay.
03:59You ready?
04:00I would love to hear it.
04:01I grew up playing tennis, so I can't wait to hear this.
04:07So as we got to be partners, as I got to know Andre, before we became partners, as
04:14I got to know Andre, I started to realize how much he loved to cook, but specifically
04:19loved to grill, to barbecue, to use wood-burning equipment.
04:24And he would obsess, and he still does to this day, I mean, like obsess over the most
04:31minuscule details about it, right?
04:34We would talk six times at some times when he was going to grill something or bake something.
04:41And so he says to me one day, he says, I'm having you over for dinner.
04:45I'm going to have you, I'm going to cook for you.
04:47You can't even, I'm not even going to take the door, wouldn't even let me go out to where
04:52he was grilling.
04:54And we get to the table and there's 13 people, you know, Andre is really a generous person.
05:00He has all his close friends and family, and it's not 13 random people, it's 13 close
05:06friends and family.
05:07So of course he has everyone standing around the table and has me sit down, and I'm sitting
05:13down and he says, okay, Michael, take a bite of this and tell me what you think, right?
05:18I've got 13 people standing around me, right?
05:20So it was a filet, it was marinated, and I took a bite of it and it was really good.
05:26This is great.
05:27And of course, you know, everyone starts in with, don't be a kiss ass, come on, tell him
05:34what you really think.
05:36Everybody's at that.
05:37And so now it's like, you know, now it starts like that.
05:40And he says to me, he says, okay, he's like, I appreciate what you said, but you know,
05:46this is, this is your wheelhouse.
05:47This is what you do.
05:49If I could do one thing better, what would it be?
05:52And I said, well, how long did you marinate?
05:55It's a filet.
05:56And he's like, you know, I marinate it for 48 hours.
05:58I said, well, probably, it's probably a little long because there's not, the fat content
06:02isn't there.
06:03And, you know, and so, and so it's getting, you know, it'll dry out, it can dry out the
06:08meat a little bit.
06:10And he's like, what?
06:11And he cuts into it, he's like, this isn't dry.
06:14And he got, and he got visibly, you know, got a little bit of, a little bit of something.
06:21And then he says, and I don't think I got invited over for dinner again for a long time
06:25after that.
06:26No, seriously?
06:27This was before, before you were business partners?
06:30No, no, I'm joking.
06:31Oh, that's so funny.
06:32Yeah.
06:33But no, but seriously, like the whole rest of the dinner, you know, it was all about,
06:39about the meat.
06:40That is so funny.
06:41And that's just that, that's who he is, like really, you know, an absolute perfectionist.
06:50Let's talk about your perfectionism, because I've, I've heard you say multiple times in
06:54multiple interviews, 1% better.
06:57If you're not getting 1% better, you're getting 1% worse.
07:00Yeah.
07:01Where does that drive come from?
07:02Well, I mean, I think that the drive probably isn't that different than, you know, I think
07:09it is for a lot of people that are, whether they're in our industry or in other industries,
07:14if you're really passionate about what you do, and you really, you know, want to continue
07:22to get better, I think you learn really quick that the only way you're going to get better
07:27is by pushing yourself to not be able to say, you know, okay, I've reached the top of the
07:33mountain, you know, now I'm just on, it's okay to just sit here, you know, I don't really
07:40and I also think in our industry, it's completely not logical to think that in the sense that,
07:45you know, as soon as you think that you've learned anything about cooking, you can just
07:49go to another country or pick up a bucket, and you can realize how much there's still,
07:54I don't know how many lifetimes you'd have to live to, you know, to really be able to
07:58master what, what all of us try to do.
08:00And, and I think that, you know, it's not about you, or it's not about me, it's not
08:07about the individual, right?
08:09If you're not, if you're not trying to get better, the people around you aren't going
08:15to try and get better either.
08:16They're not going to try to move forward in what they're doing.
08:19And that's really the kiss of death for a restaurant.
08:23Was there any examples of that when you were growing up?
08:26Um, I mean, in, you mean, as far as restaurants, or as far as
08:30As far as rents, restaurants, mentors, parents?
08:33Yeah, I mean, I think that the passion that, you know, the passion that comes through,
08:40I'll never forget, you know, what, probably, you know, if I look back at chefs that I just
08:46could not, the people that are the most passionate chefs I've ever been around, when it comes
08:50to food, didn't actually work with him, but became very close friends, then did many events
08:55with them was John Louis Paladin.
08:57And, and, you know, he had, he just had so much of the respect of everybody in our industry,
09:03right?
09:03And every chef, you know, but that just the light when you're watching him tasting, they
09:10watch him do anything.
09:11Everything was always 100%, like, how do you make it better?
09:15How do you, how do you, how do you do better?
09:17How do you make something, take something, make it better?
09:20How do you make it perfect?
09:21And I think that the drive of, you know, I've been very blessed that at a fairly young age
09:29to be in high profile restaurants.
09:31And so, in high profile restaurants, obviously, it puts you into being around extremely competitive
09:39people in a very competitive industry.
09:41And, and I think that that alone is going to push you to make you, you know, you're not
09:47look, you know, I think we can all look at people and say, okay, well, that person should have,
09:53you know, really made the most of it.
09:55Or that person could have gone farther or whatever it is.
09:57But I think in our industry, anybody that you see that continually is, is moving forward.
10:03It's not really standing still.
10:06What is the hospitality gene?
10:10The gene?
10:10Hospitality gene.
10:11Yeah.
10:12Well, I think it's you, you get it at a very young age.
10:15I don't know.
10:15I don't think it's because you, you know, to me, one of the questions I ask people all
10:21the time is, okay, if you're a chef, and you want to, you know, you're talking to me about
10:27working for a group or whatever, you can be an amazing chef, like do everything right.
10:32And I'll ask you, if somebody asks for ketchup with their Wagyu steak, what would you say?
10:39And it's amazing how many different answers you get.
10:41And you learn very quickly if somebody's hospitable or not.
10:46Yeah.
10:46Because, you know, if the answer is, you know, no way, blah, blah, blah, you know, that they're
10:53not hospitable.
10:54They're not really out to do what the guest wants.
10:57You know, if I disagree with something that somebody wants, I'll put it on the side.
11:01You know, I'll still give it to them.
11:03But at the end of the day, it's, you know, I think kind of obsessing over every detail
11:09of the experience and knowing that that all starts with, you know, having a team that's
11:15obviously amazing and is going to do because they have so much of being able to make any
11:22of that happen.
11:22And so if they don't, people around you don't see that you're obsessed over, you know, making
11:28things better for the guest, they're not going to do it themselves.
11:31And I think that, you know, I think it's being more excited about making something for somebody
11:37else than making it for yourself.
11:39And now a quick break from restaurant influencers to welcome our newest sponsor to the show.
11:45It's Zach Oates, the founder of Ovation.
11:48Ovation is helping restaurants to improve operations with the human touch.
11:52We are a guest experience platform for multi-unit restaurants like Friendly's, Muya, PDQ, Tzatziki's
11:58and even Cali BBQ with thousands of others that starts with a two-question survey and
12:03drives revenue, location level improvement and guest recovery.
12:07So here's how it works.
12:08The guest answers two questions.
12:10The first one is how is your experience?
12:12And then from there, happy guests are invited to do things that are going to drive revenue
12:16and unhappy guests share privately what went wrong.
12:19So you and your team can resolve that concern in real time.
12:22Our AI will even help you do that.
12:24Then the magic happens.
12:25We take all the public reviews.
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12:29We categorize it using our AI and give you detailed feedback in 34 restaurant specific
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12:37So we make sure that guests feel good, that you look good.
12:40And if you're interested in learning more, visit OvationUp.com forward slash Sean, because
12:45any listener of Sean's is a friend of Ovation's.
12:48If we go back to the beginning of the MENA group, is there something in particular that
12:54started to click where you guys actually started to scale?
12:57I've talked to a lot of incredible restauranteurs about going from their first restaurant to
13:02their second, to their third, and right around the third, four, five, is kind of when they
13:07realized the people within their organization had to change.
13:11They had to change.
13:12Yeah.
13:13I mean, my story is a little different in the sense that it really was two companies,
13:18right?
13:19I started Aqua Development Corp with Aqua and then left and started MENA group.
13:28So I think the first thing that really clicked was the fact that we were able to scale.
13:33We were able to scale.
13:34We were able to scale.
13:35We were able to scale.
13:36We were able to scale.
13:38And then left and started MENA group.
13:41And so I think that was that point for me of being able to say, how am I going to be
13:54able to create a vision and then go out and execute on that the right way?
14:00And I feel very fortunate to have had the opportunity to do that where I really was
14:09able to take the company from day one and say, very clearly, we're going to be a management
14:16company.
14:16And we're going to have a very clear direction in the sense of, I just really worked at a
14:22Four Seasons.
14:23I was a pastry chef for the Four Seasons in San Francisco and got to meet Isidore Sharp
14:30once and listen to him speak.
14:32And that was kind of an aha moment for me of why was Four Seasons?
14:37I had no idea.
14:37I was working.
14:38I had no idea Four Seasons was really a management company and didn't own their properties.
14:44They managed their properties and why you do that.
14:47And then so I had had the opportunity of having two Aquas, one in San Francisco and one in
14:53Las Vegas, the Bellagio.
14:55So one in San Francisco was a leased property.
14:59And then the one in Las Vegas was a partnership with the Bellagio.
15:04And at that point, I learned that I really looked at when you lease a property or own
15:12a property, you're the plumber, you're the electrician, you're everything.
15:17And I realized that they were very different skill sets.
15:21And I said, that point was still kind of a little voodoo for chefs to have more than
15:27one restaurant to begin with.
15:28The media was a lot tougher on you about it back then.
15:32And I said, I really enjoy this.
15:36I want to build a company to just partner with hotels, with casinos, with developers,
15:41and really be a management company and not have to really focus all of our learning,
15:47our attention, everything is on career pathing people, learning, development, and obviously,
15:54creativity, innovation, and then execution.
15:57And I felt like those are the things we were best at.
15:59So why not put all your capital, put all your effort, put all your energy into that, and
16:05then try to get good partnerships.
16:10And then all of a sudden, it's the idea of one and one makes three.
16:14And I think it really was, that was the aha moment.
16:17And that's when everything changed for me.
16:19And I went from having Aqua in San Francisco to having Michael Mina at the St. Francis.
16:25And that was a partnership with the hotel and it worked out really well.
16:31And obviously, still had the Bellagio and a few other restaurants and then built from
16:39there.
16:40I'll share a quick story with you.
16:42As I said, we own Cali Barbecue here in San Diego.
16:45We've been putting on amateur barbecue contest.
16:47Eventually, we started doing professional barbecue contest at the Del Mar Thoroughbred
16:51Club.
16:51And I actually reached out to your PR team when International Smoke was opening up at
16:57Del Mar Heights.
16:58So your team was going to come and actually participate in some capacity, but you guys
17:03were managing opening the restaurant.
17:05We got invited to the opening, had an incredible time there.
17:09You were so polite.
17:09Aisha was amazing.
17:11I'd love for you to share a story about Aisha and International Smoke.
17:16Absolutely.
17:17How did that come to be?
17:18Absolutely.
17:19So we had, oh boy, it was, I've got to say, I might get my dates wrong, but before the
17:27pandemic.
17:30It all runs together.
17:32Probably 15 or something like that, 2015.
17:35We were just about to start a growth period.
17:39Another growth period.
17:41And we had conceptualized a few concepts that people had, that we had already signed deals
17:50for that were down the road, maybe a year, year and a half in hotels.
17:53Plus, we had some other concepts that we really felt strongly about and felt great about.
17:58And I said, why don't we get a small restaurant?
18:05Go get a small restaurant with a really funky little kitchen, something that's not ideal.
18:12Right?
18:13And let's do a real test kitchen.
18:16Let's do something that's not like a test kitchen.
18:19That's more of the laboratory type kitchen.
18:22If there's anything wrong with that, but we already had enough restaurants that could
18:25be laboratories for us, but let's get the one where we can build a little test kitchen
18:32where you have to acclimate yourself to the environment.
18:37And we said, okay, and then have about whatever X amount of seats.
18:44So we ended up with a spot in San Francisco, right on Fillmore and Greenwich.
18:49And it was called the Mina Test Kitchen.
18:51And so we would take concepts and put concepts in there.
18:58And the first concept was Mediterranean.
19:01And it was Middle Eastern Mediterranean because I had always, I'm from Egypt and I had a big
19:06passion for wanting to do this.
19:07And this was something that I really wanted to do was to take that Middle Eastern Mediterranean
19:14food and have fun elevating it and kind of seeing it through my own eyes and through
19:21our team's eyes.
19:22And so it was just so cool.
19:27Like this whole idea of this kitchen where we would, this funky little kitchen and we
19:32would do 80 people a night or something and we'd sell tickets to it.
19:40And it was great.
19:42And then I met Ayesha, we were both doing something with Williams Sonoma.
19:48And so they set up a lunch for us to meet.
19:51I was obviously like anybody else, a Heath Warriors fan.
19:55And I really loved watching Ayesha's, her little show that she would do, her podcast,
20:03not podcast, but her online show that she would do.
20:06I just thought it was, I just loved her personality.
20:09That was great.
20:10So I was really excited when I got to meet her.
20:12And when we were having lunch, she said to me, she's like, I really want to go to culinary
20:17school and I want to take this farther and farther.
20:21I've done a lot with it.
20:22And she, and I was like, I was like, look, you got to be realistic with your time.
20:27You know, are you really going to do that?
20:29I said, why don't you come spend some time with me in the kitchen?
20:32And she did in the restaurants and she was great.
20:36And she was really into it.
20:38And from there, we started brainstorming one night.
20:42We were just talking about what she likes.
20:45I said, so if you had a restaurant, what would you do?
20:47And she's like, well, you know, I like, you know, I, I like, I just cook from all over
20:52because that's who I am.
20:53That's my heritage.
20:54It's very mixed and, or ethnicity is very mixed.
20:58And she's like, you know, and, and I said, well, you know, I love that style of cooking
21:04as well.
21:05And then we both love like live fire cooking and not necessarily smoking, you know, because
21:10I think that people, you know, people think barbecue, they think American barbecue, right.
21:16Tell me about it.
21:17I'm in San Diego, we've got plenty of challenges with barbecue in San Diego.
21:22Yeah.
21:22Right.
21:22And so, you know, it's like, so we came up with, so you're like, okay, why don't we do
21:27a place where we don't really have any boundaries to it?
21:30And so what happened was we, we always went with names whenever we're in the test kitchen,
21:37we went with names to kind of tell you exactly what it was like.
21:39Middle Terrania, right?
21:40Not a lot of thought put into that.
21:42It was like Middle Eastern Mediterranean.
21:45Like just do it.
21:46So international smoke started exactly like that.
21:48It's like, we were just sitting there one night and just joking around saying, okay,
21:53what are we going to do barbecue?
21:54And we're, we want to be international.
21:56We want to, so let's just call it international smoke, right?
22:00Easy enough.
22:01Well, I didn't understand the power of faisha and everything else.
22:08Tickets, tickets go on sale.
22:10I like, yeah, just put the, you know, put up the three, you know, open it up for the
22:14three months, you know, that we're going to be there 18 minutes later.
22:17There's no tickets left.
22:19No way.
22:2018 minutes.
22:22And I'm like, what is going on here, right?
22:26Wow.
22:29And to her credit, we ended up doing it for five months.
22:34We opened up some more just because we, and we had to extend like a full another seating
22:40and we opened an extra day just to get people in.
22:43Like all of our VIPs were calling like, I can't believe you didn't save me a spot.
22:47You know, and she did it like to her credit.
22:52I mean, she, she really, she was in there.
22:54She did it with us.
22:56And so then, you know, then we decided, you know, like it made a lot of sense.
23:01RN74 was kind of starting to wind down because it was a restaurant I had in San Francisco
23:07and it was a partnership with Rajat Par and he had really started to focus more on, on
23:12his wine, his winery and growing his wines and everything wasn't in the restaurant so
23:17much.
23:17And so it didn't have that same, you know, it didn't really have that same pizazz and
23:22it was time for a change.
23:24And we said, why don't, why don't we just move international smoke there?
23:27It was a great decision.
23:29That's amazing.
23:30Yeah.
23:31Can you share any stories about the challenges about closing locations?
23:35I mean, obviously the pandemic, but yeah.
23:37Absolutely.
23:37Well, there's the pandemic challenges and then there's reality, right?
23:41The reality to the reality to, I think that some of those decisions that I think, you
23:47know, they're really hard decisions.
23:48They're really, really hard decisions because you're not, you're, there's a lot that goes
23:53into that decision.
23:54There's a lot that goes into the decision of opening it and there's a lot that goes
23:58into the decision of closing it.
24:00And I think that, you know, I think that the fact that, you know, so many restaurants
24:08do not survive and do not, you know, thrive and achieve what they're supposed to achieve.
24:17I think that part of that hospitality gene, you're hospitable, not just with your, you
24:26know, with your customers.
24:28I mean, you've got all your employees and you know what it's like.
24:30It's like a family.
24:31Those restaurants are like families and they're every one of them is their own family.
24:35If you have just one, it's really your own family.
24:38And if you have multiples, they create, they create their own family.
24:42And sometimes it's just not the right fit as far as like restaurant, place, time, whatever
24:47it is, right?
24:49Location.
24:50It can just be as simple as, you know, a few things went wrong in your lease.
24:55I've had every, there's been multiple things that have made me, you know, of, you know,
25:01probably this, you know, we always look at things and say, okay, is that a concept issue?
25:05And if it's a concept issue, you can, then you can, you know, very easily look at it
25:10and say, does it make sense to change the concept?
25:12But if it's a lease or location issue, that could be totally different.
25:17It could be that there's no way you're going to be able to make it work.
25:20Right.
25:20And sometimes that's just the reality of it and you still try to push through trying to
25:25do it.
25:26And so my recommendation is, you know, first and foremost is if you're going to do anything,
25:31like you, people will sometimes have, oh, I know an attorney or I've got a friend.
25:37So they're going to help me with the lease.
25:39No, no, no, no, no, no.
25:43People on the other side have way smarter friends.
25:48You got to get that.
25:49The best advice ever right there.
25:51Yeah, you got to get that piece, right?
25:53Because you're setting yourself up, you know, to where you're going to make your life really
25:58hard and everyone's life really hard.
26:00And then, you know, when it comes time to really look at it, and if you, if you simply
26:06have to close the restaurant, don't drag it out.
26:11Don't drag it out and think that, you know, you're going to turn it around.
26:14You're going to turn around if you don't have a really clear path to turning it around.
26:18You're going to have to close that.
26:20And in all honesty, I know that it's tough because you really like your everything's
26:27into it.
26:27You got, you know, you got, you're going to have a lot of people in your, your customers.
26:31They don't, you're, you're true customers.
26:33They don't want to tell you that you should close the restaurant.
26:36They want to cheer for you, right?
26:38Your employees, you know, you don't want to tell them that you have to close the restaurant
26:42or whatever.
26:43You want to be the provider.
26:45We didn't have this place for him.
26:47And so there's a lot of emotion behind it.
26:50And you have to look at it and say, though, are you really helping anybody?
26:54Because, you know, usually things, you know, if obviously if there's a clear path, yes,
27:01but if there isn't, things usually get worse before, you know, then they would be if you
27:05just went ahead and closed.
27:07I would love for you to talk a little bit about technology in your restaurants.
27:11Obviously the show is sponsored by toast and I've gone on, I've gone on the Mina website
27:16and saw the incredible photos that you guys have for your restaurants.
27:22I mean, the bourbon steak photos, I feel like I have, I need one in San Diego now.
27:27And you guys are opening one, you're opening one in New York.
27:30But can you, can you talk, can you talk about not just toast in particular, but technology
27:35in general?
27:36I saw an incredible video of you at Google giving a presentation eight years ago.
27:43Yeah.
27:44Think about how much technology has changed just in eight years in restaurants.
27:48Give us a little bit of insight.
27:49How do you guys do technology at the Mina group?
27:52Sure.
27:52Well, we, you know, we obviously have, you know, a group kind of our size is going to
27:58have people that, you know, are dedicated just to technology.
28:02God, we have another part of the business that you think, you know, that you really
28:07realize once you get somebody that really knows it, that you don't know.
28:11Yeah.
28:12But, you know, we look at it, we kind of look at it three ways through three different,
28:20through three different sets of eyes.
28:21Right.
28:23I would say that the number one where I look at it the most, where I like, you know, kind
28:29of have obsessed over it is in the L&D space is the learning development space.
28:34And how can you use it for consistency in your restaurants?
28:37Right.
28:39And so that's kind of where I obsess the most over it.
28:43Right.
28:43And so I think that the thing that we did that I look back and was probably, you know,
28:48one of the largest reasons we were able to expand with any success was, you know, now
28:55and I think we're going on 12, 14 years now, 13, 14 years ago, we started recipe exchange.
29:02And at that time, like there was nothing you could buy out there to, because people,
29:07frankly, 13, 14 years ago, people didn't share recipes that they like to get recipes.
29:12You had to, you know, prep, cut onions for a month and, you know, get a recipe for onion
29:16soup.
29:16Right.
29:18And we went completely the other direction.
29:21We said, complete transparency.
29:23Let's create it.
29:24Let's really create some technology.
29:26Let's really look at how do we create something where every single recipe videos to how to
29:31make the dishes, all of it is all in one spot.
29:35And that was kind of the first introduction of it.
29:37I had, I'll never forget, we had 11, 12 restaurants that I think I had like five or six chefs
29:46quit, literally quit.
29:49Yeah.
29:49And honestly, looking back at it, the same ones that couldn't keep up their sites, couldn't
29:55keep up their kitchens.
29:57It was that kind of, that kind of discipline, like, because what it became is it became
30:02extremely competitive.
30:03Because you think about it, you got every season, you've got, if you want to be seasonal
30:08and you want to be local and you want, there was no way that we were, you're flying around
30:13writing everybody's menus and everything else, blah, blah, blah.
30:16So, so having it all digitally in one spot, and then having it be everything from your
30:22silverware markings to your beverage pairings to everything and it becoming really an education
30:27center for your team.
30:29Well, everyone's looking at each other's work.
30:31So they got to put up those photos.
30:32They got to take your photo.
30:34You got to put up your photos.
30:35You got to shoot videos of how to plate the dish.
30:38We've relaxed a little on the videos because that took so much time.
30:42But over, we do really the higher level, important technique videos.
30:47But so that was that first introduction to me, to me as a chef to stop fighting the technology
30:56piece in my mind and saying, it's here.
30:59It's here to stay.
31:00And then there's obviously the guest side of it, right?
31:04Of like, what is all of the things it's going to do for you on the guest side?
31:11You know, okay, now I'm going to get better data on my guests.
31:14It's going to make it easier for my guests.
31:16It's a better experience for them to learn about my restaurant, everything, the media side of it.
31:22And then there's the operational side of it.
31:25And as you start to operate, and then you find companies like Toast, you find companies like
31:36solutions to things that maybe have been around for a long time that you're so used to using.
31:42So it's like, okay, how do you thread that needle of something you're used to using,
31:47your team's used to using to something that is got, you know, okay, I drove a Volkswagen
31:53for all these years.
31:53I know how to drive a Volkswagen.
31:55There's a Ferrari, right?
31:59Now, all of a sudden, I don't like the Ferrari.
32:03Well, you know, that's where technology is.
32:07It's like, that's the difference.
32:09And it happens almost every year.
32:11It's really happening so quickly, right?
32:13What is out there, and how to even keep up with it.
32:16And then once you figure out how to keep up with it, it's really not teaching your team
32:21how to use it.
32:21Because teaching them is one thing.
32:23Getting the buy-in from them is totally different, right?
32:27And I think that rolling things like that out are, you know, that's challenging in and of itself.
32:35But boy, when you think of the value you get out of it.
32:38I mean, it's just nuts now, what we get to look at every day, compared to the numbers,
32:44the customer feedback, the things we get to look at every day now compared to what we
32:50got to look at, you know, five years ago, 10 years ago, just unbelievable.
32:54Preston Pyshenko Can you share about Bourbon Steak?
32:57New York?
32:58David Tenenbaum Yeah, New York, absolutely.
32:59Absolutely.
33:00So we're going to open Bourbon Steak at the Essex House in New York.
33:04And it's the part of it, part of the space where we're gonna have the private rooms,
33:08it's the old Alon Dukas space.
33:11And then, but we're going to go all the way out to Central Park South.
33:15And we're going to be right on.
33:17So we'll be Bourbon Steak.
33:20And then we're going to have, where the lobby is right now, we're going to put a Bourbon
33:24Steak bar and lounge.
33:26And really exciting.
33:28It's kind of the first of its kind.
33:31You know, I went to school in New York, worked in New York, and, you know, have so many friends
33:35there have always been, you know, excited to go there, extremely nervous to go there,
33:41obviously, you know, it being New York and kind of have always waited until I said I'd
33:48wait till my kids were really settled, like, out of school, you know, working and have
33:54their lives settled that I could go there and spend some real time there.
33:58And I'm very excited.
33:59We're going to open right around May 7.
34:02That's looking like amazing.
34:04And it'll be our first kind of Bourbon Steak Supper Club that has, you know, a good, really
34:10cool vibe to it as well.
34:11So are you still doing three months at every opening?
34:15Yeah, yeah, yeah.
34:16This one, this one, especially, I'm heading there in just a couple days.
34:24That is magical.
34:25Can you share a little bit about, I know you're a huge Die Hard 49er fan, and I got
34:31the opportunity to actually have your restaurant in what you thought was going to be a small
34:37space that turned into a much larger footprint.
34:40Can you share how that went and what it meant to you?
34:44Yeah, well, you know, I mean, look, I, you know, everyone, I mean, I fell in love with
34:50San Francisco when I was 13 years old.
34:52I took a trip there and fell in love with the city.
34:56And soon after, you know, right around the same time became a Die Hard 49er fan since
35:03I was young.
35:04And so I think it was half of being in San Francisco was because of the culinary side
35:11of it.
35:12Half of it was because I was such a 49er fan.
35:14I think my first big purchase in life was two season tickets to Candlestick.
35:19And so after it all started, we would just throw these crazy tailgate parties.
35:24And I, over the years, kind of got some more tickets and we would have in the parking lot,
35:32we'd have chefs, you know, all my different friends, depending on what team we were playing,
35:37like people would want to come out for the game if they're a Patriots fan or, you know,
35:41where Charlie Palmer want to come out for Giants game or whatever it was.
35:46Right.
35:47So we just started throwing these tailgate parties and it was all these chefs and a lot
35:51of the wineries.
35:52And like we leaned into the, you know, cheese and wine, San Francisco thing.
35:57Right.
35:57But we really leaned into it.
35:59We were roasting whole livers of foie gras at the stadium, cooking like a hundred lobsters.
36:05Oh, wow.
36:06Lobster tailgate.
36:07I love it.
36:08Yeah.
36:09I got to know the 49ers folks.
36:10And when they opened the stadium, we said, you know, why don't we, they asked us, why
36:15don't you move your tailgate inside and do a restaurant?
36:18Let's do it.
36:20Move your tailgate inside.
36:21What a nice offer.
36:24Just go ahead and run a restaurant while you're at it.
36:26And for all the events too, outside of the football games.
36:30Absolutely.
36:31That's awesome.
36:32So I have to ask you about these Mina Group food trips, these annual trips where you guys
36:39go, I believe you said either you're going or you might be going to Peru and Columbia
36:43this year.
36:43Is that, has that happened or is it going to happen?
36:47No, it'll happen.
36:48Yeah.
36:48It'll definitely happen.
36:50And, you know, what we do is just, obviously it's a combination decision wise.
36:56It's a combination of, you know, what do you, what is the team really want to learn?
37:00What are we working on?
37:03Like what, you know, what projects are we looking at and working on?
37:06What is the team really want to learn and what's going on in different areas?
37:10And then what we do, try to do is just, you know, get the culinary team, a few of the
37:16directors and leaders and get together and go, you know, go to different places that,
37:22you know, we've tried to coordinate it over the years of bigger groups, like with the
37:27wine team and everything else, but it's just so hard.
37:32As much as we hate to separate, unless a couple of times we've been able to keep it together,
37:37but otherwise we'll let the beverage side do their thing and then we'll do our thing and then
37:42get together and try to take, compare notes and look at it through two sets of eyes.
37:50But, you know, it's just amazing.
37:52I mean, the last couple of years have been heavily with the Middle East
37:56because of, you know, a lot of what we were working on with Orla, the restaurant we just
38:01opened at Mandalay Bay and an opening in Santa Monica that it was all about really,
38:07you know, that's been, that was the major focus the last couple of years has really
38:11been focusing on that.
38:13When are you going to bring a media team to document this and share?
38:16Let's go do it.
38:18You need a team.
38:19We're ready to go.
38:20That sounds amazing.
38:21It sounds absolutely incredible.
38:23I'd love to share that with the world.
38:26So before you go, I would love to ask you a couple of questions.
38:29We believe, obviously, if a barbecue business can become a media business, we all have this
38:34incredible tool in our pocket that most business owners take for granted on a daily basis.
38:39But I'd love to ask you some questions.
38:41Are you an Android or an iPhone user?
38:43iPhone, Google.
38:45Which version?
38:48I don't know.
38:49This is how bad I am at this.
38:50I think it's 14.
38:5214?
38:53And then do you update your software?
38:55I do.
38:56You do?
38:57Do you prefer texts or phone calls?
39:03Depends on the person.
39:07Do you prefer texts or emails?
39:11Texts.
39:13How many emails do you get a day?
39:17200.
39:18200?
39:19How many do you like to read?
39:21Myself.
39:23Do you enjoy reading of those 200?
39:25It depends on the day.
39:27It depends on what's going on.
39:29Honestly, I don't mind it.
39:32I don't read that many of them.
39:35In all honesty, I have somebody to help sort through them.
39:38That's great.
39:39Do you leave voicemails?
39:42I still do.
39:43Again, same thing.
39:44Depends on who it is.
39:47I don't leave, I would say, maybe 10% of people I leave voicemail to at this point.
39:53Probably was higher before.
39:55But yeah, there's certain people that I'd like to leave voicemails to.
40:01Which map app do you use?
40:03Google Maps, Apple Maps?
40:04Google.
40:05Google?
40:05Google Maps, yeah.
40:07And do you listen to music on your phone?
40:09I do.
40:11Which app do you use?
40:12Spotify.
40:13Spotify, there we go.
40:15Do you prefer photos or videos?
40:20I prefer videos.
40:22You prefer videos.
40:23Yeah.
40:25Vertical or horizontal?
40:29Vertical.
40:30Vertical.
40:31And what's your favorite social media app?
40:37I mean, it's probably Instagram.
40:41Yeah, there's just so much.
40:44I mean, when I'm looking at it, I'm on it a lot because of food.
40:49Who's one of your favorites to follow?
40:52Oh, yeah.
40:53Okay.
40:54Let's see.
40:57We're gonna someone's gonna get a shout out from Chef Michael Mina.
41:09Well.
41:16Let me get back to you with that one.
41:17Okay.
41:19We're gonna get back.
41:20We'll do part two.
41:22Okay.
41:24We'll do part two.
41:26Well, Chef Michael Mina, it's been an absolute pleasure.
41:29Can you, any advice on a restaurateur, a leader that's listening to this?
41:37You know, given where we are in 2024, we'll look back on this interview and
41:41something that you can leave with our audience.
41:45Well, I mean, I think it's, you know, the advice is, to me, is, you know, understand
41:54where you want, what, where you want to get to and what is your true goal?
42:00You know, don't be open to that changing, but don't, don't, don't take that goal.
42:11If you want to become, you know, a chef of one restaurant or whatever it is, right?
42:17That might change over time, right?
42:19But whatever that goal is, it's in front of you.
42:21Accomplish that goal before you move on to the next one.
42:24You know, don't let change become your vehicle of not accomplishing your goal.
42:30Change.
42:31That's not what change is about, you know, accomplish it.
42:34Do the best, do a great job and feel great about it.
42:38Feel like you've done it.
42:40And then if you change paths or change direction, it's okay.
42:45But if it needs to be changed, it's okay.
42:47But don't, don't, don't let change become your vehicle of not completing something.
42:54That's phenomenal advice.
42:55If you guys want to keep in touch with me, it's at Sean P.
42:58Waltreff, S-H-A-W-N-P-W-A-L-C-H-E-F.
43:03That's Instagram, LinkedIn, all the platforms.
43:06We want to hear about you, your restaurant.
43:08If you're a creator, if you're in sales, if you're in marketing, we are here as a resource
43:12for you.
43:13MichaelMina.net is the website.
43:16You can go visit all of the restaurants, Chef Michael Mina on Instagram.
43:20And Chef, I'm so grateful.
43:23I can't wait for round two.
43:25Hopefully one day I can do a family style.
43:28Toast has a traveling show where we actually go to restaurants and we get to see the inside
43:33workings of how, of how the technology is working in the restaurant.
43:36Hopefully one day we can do that at one of your restaurants.
43:38That would be amazing.
43:40Absolutely.
43:41I would love it, Chef.
43:42Thank you.
43:43We really appreciate it.
43:44Thank you so much, Chef Michael Mina.
43:47Take care.
43:50Thank you for listening to Restaurant Influencers.
43:52If you want to get in touch with me, I am weirdly available at Sean P.
43:56Waltreff, S-H-A-W-N-P-W-A-L-C-H-E-F.
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