What Will the Boston Celtics do on Draft Night? (w/ Ben Pfeifer) | First to the Floor - video Dailymotion

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Draft guru Ben Pfeifer joins us to break down the Celtics' options at the upcoming NBA draft, including the best options at the 30 range, ideal targets, the potential for trading the pick, and much more.  Follow Ben Pfeifer on Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/bjpf_ Check out Ben Pfeifer's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@benpfeifer8192  Spooney's Offseason Primer: https://www.celticsblog.com/2024/6/23/24183794/deep-dive-boston-celtics-offseason-options-brad-stevens-derrick-white-sam-hauser-luke-kornet  Check out last week's underrated plays vid: https://youtu.be/ybahmzqAOI4 ️Subscribe to the podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/first-to-the-floor-a-boston-celtics-podcast/id1351038879 Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/firsttothefloor18/ Watch live Celtics games with us: https://playback.tv/celticsblog Check out Spooney's latest column on CelticsBlog: https://bit.ly/3UCITHv  JOIN OUR DISCORD SERVER: https://discord.gg/H75UWjmtya Buy our MERCH, Support the show!: https://bit.ly/fttfmerch  #bostonceltics #celtics #postgame #firsttothefloor #jaysontatum #jaylenbrown

Transcript

00:00:00What is up?

00:00:24Welcome back to another episode of First to the Floor.

00:00:27We are joined by a very special guest as we try and wrap our head around the NBA Draft

00:00:32amidst the champagne and beer over the past couple of weeks, Ben Pfeiffer.

00:00:39How are you doing, my friend?

00:00:41I'm doing well.

00:00:42As I said before, congrats, guys.

00:00:44I know it's an exciting time for all of y'all Celtics fans.

00:00:50And the draft is probably just like any consolation prize at this point.

00:00:53You're not like stressing out like other fan bases.

00:00:56But thanks for having me on, guys.

00:00:58Yeah, thanks for coming on.

00:00:59The draft felt way more important last year, I'll say that for sure.

00:01:03But I know I can probably speak for Jake here.

00:01:05I love the draft.

00:01:06It's just super fun.

00:01:08I always convince myself anyone in the Celtics draft is going to be a multi-time all-star.

00:01:12So I'm totally looking forward to it.

00:01:14I mean, they've got a pretty decent record, so it's not the worst idea ever.

00:01:19Well, yeah, I think that's kind of the biggest question for Brad Stevens left, is like, he's

00:01:25the GOAT.

00:01:26The only thing we're not 100% sure he can do yet is draft, because the only draft pick

00:01:30he really made so far is Jordan Walsh.

00:01:33So the jury's kind of out so far.

00:01:35Right.

00:01:36Far too early on that one.

00:01:37Yeah, yeah.

00:01:38I guess I'll ask you on that.

00:01:39D, what were your Jordan Walsh thoughts prior to the draft, if you have them?

00:01:44I was a big fan of Jordan Walsh.

00:01:46I liked that pick a lot.

00:01:48I think it made a lot of sense for a very deep team like the Celtics to pick a guy with

00:01:54pretty extreme upside on the defensive end, but would need time.

00:01:57And I think that's possibly going to be in the cards this year for how they go.

00:02:02But he had some, I watched him a couple of times in the G League this year, and he always

00:02:06looked pretty good, at least doing the things that he does with regards to like tons of

00:02:10energy and defense.

00:02:11And there were some good driving moments.

00:02:13But yeah, I thought Walsh was like, solid late first guy.

00:02:18I think the Celtics were a good landing spot.

00:02:20And I will say, I do believe in him long term.

00:02:23So do we.

00:02:24So do we.

00:02:25Yeah.

00:02:26Well, yeah.

00:02:27Like, you know, I, I believed in Gavshon Yabusele way too long and all of this.

00:02:31Zizic.

00:02:32Yeah, Zizic.

00:02:33Big Zizic guy.

00:02:34Yeah.

00:02:35Well, but like, that's, I mean, like, if you're going to be a fan of a team, like why not

00:02:38believe until like, it's really time to stop, stop believing, you know?

00:02:43If you're a fan of a team and you're not just like way too in on all of your picks, like,

00:02:48what are you doing?

00:02:49Right.

00:02:50Yeah.

00:02:52James Young can give us minutes, man, I'm telling you, Ben, why don't you kind of give

00:02:56us a little bit of rundown to how long you've been covering the draft and maybe how your

00:03:00approach has changed as the years have gone by, as you've seen more drafts?

00:03:05Yeah.

00:03:06So I've been covering the draft, at least seriously since probably like the 2019 cycle.

00:03:12So this is going to be like my fourth, my fifth or sixth draft really doing content.

00:03:18I've done a bunch of stuff.

00:03:21I've written in a bunch of different places, made videos at a bunch of different places,

00:03:28did a little team side work, and now I'm back just making content.

00:03:32And you said like the things that have changed over the years?

00:03:36Yeah.

00:03:37That's a good question of specific lessons.

00:03:41I think I've learned to value like advantage creation and scoring a lot more than I used

00:03:47to do, because even if you're like a really talented player in a lot of other ways, if

00:03:51you can't score, it's really hard to get on the floor.

00:03:55I've come to value things like youth and feel even more like young players tend to break

00:04:01out or early breakout players tend to be better.

00:04:05Really smart players tend to be better.

00:04:09I don't know if I've made any massive changes in my philosophy, but you know, just little

00:04:14things, picking up on trends, guys who I got wrong.

00:04:19I think some of my big early fails, like being high on guys like Jarrett Culver or Lillian

00:04:26Hayes, which are obviously not unique opinions, right?

00:04:29But I think part of the big issue with guys like that, especially at the top of the draft,

00:04:33which we're not going to be talking about today, was the inability to like create and

00:04:38score.

00:04:39And even if that's not your main thing, you pretty much got to be able to do it.

00:04:41Sometimes I think a team like the Celtics kind of forces every single one of their players

00:04:46to dribble and pass and do perimeter stuff.

00:04:48And I think there's a reason for that, you know?

00:04:51Yeah.

00:04:52Like going through draft stuff for this team, it's hard and funny because I'm like, but

00:04:58all of our players can dribble, pass, shoot, and defend at a high level, but no one that

00:05:02I'm looking at at pick 39 can do that.

00:05:05Like how's that going to work?

00:05:08What do you mean Brian Dunn can't shoot?

00:05:11Yeah.

00:05:12And like, and I guess that's, I mean, that's kind of at the point, that's why I kind of

00:05:15wanted to talk a little bit of like more broad draft stuff as well, just because like a lot

00:05:20of it, you know, feels kind of, for someone who's not a big draft person, it feels like

00:05:24there's like, you know, just a randomness to it.

00:05:26Like obviously there's, you know, even the guys at the outside of like the top two, three

00:05:31picks, the hit rates of those guys, guys that end up like on the same team for their second

00:05:37contract is like shockingly low, but when you're picking it forth overall, it feels

00:05:42like you're just guaranteed to get a guy that's going to be there forever and you're going

00:05:46to be a multi-time also, but, um, and you're like, you know, Josh Giddey was just traded

00:05:50a couple of days ago.

00:05:51Like there's another guy who was sixth overall, um, who has moved on, um, from his first team.

00:05:57So, um, like just accepting that, like, you never know kind of what's going to happen.

00:06:02And then obviously there are just some teams that are better than others.

00:06:04Celtics have drafted pretty well.

00:06:06I know Danny Ange had a couple of, um, like late misses late, but like generally had a

00:06:11pretty excellent record.

00:06:12Yeah.

00:06:13And I think another big thing that I've learned and I've just like picked up on more, it is

00:06:18something that you get is how much of a patient scheme the draft is.

00:06:21Um, and I think that's definitely something that the Celtics know.

00:06:25Um, and you know, they were patient with Jalen, I think, especially their patient, obviously

00:06:29patient with Tatum, but you know, Tatum broke out really early.

00:06:32That was easy.

00:06:33It's hard.

00:06:34You're not, it's rare that you're going to get instant returns.

00:06:38And even if prospects don't work out on their first team and their first contract, even

00:06:42if it wasn't like the quote unquote right pick, that doesn't mean they're not going

00:06:44to be good players or that they weren't good prospects.

00:06:47Like I think back to my first draft, um, like 2019 that I covered, I was super high on,

00:06:53on Kobe white, who for like a couple of years, wasn't really looking like it was going to

00:06:57be anything.

00:06:58And last year, like when we breaks out, it looks like a sub all-star level player.

00:07:01So it's like, yeah, year four or five.

00:07:03Um, I think most teams could generally benefit from more patience.

00:07:07Um, which is part of why I think teams like Celtics and OKC and other of these, like in

00:07:12Denver, honestly, teams like that who have really good franchises tend to like be patient

00:07:16with the players they draft even through ups and downs.

00:07:20Um, I think that's definitely an important consideration and something that in the case

00:07:25of the Celtics, they definitely shown over the past decade or so that they're willing

00:07:28to draft players that might not be willing to contribute right away.

00:07:33Um, and might, but might be worth it long-term because of that.

00:07:37Yeah.

00:07:38And like knee Smith is the guy, right.

00:07:40That we weren't patient with, but then he still kind of broke out this year for Indy,

00:07:44you know?

00:07:45Uh, but so like, that's a hit for a draft pick wise.

00:07:48Yeah.

00:07:49You're welcome.

00:07:50You're welcome.

00:07:51He's the best man.

00:07:52It did work.

00:07:53We, we were believers.

00:07:54Spoonie was, Spoonie was like building a fricking castle on top of should see the shrine in

00:07:59my bedroom.

00:08:00Yeah.

00:08:01Uh, yeah, but, um, do you have like any, do you have like a, your crown jewel draft take

00:08:07like you are high on a certain guy, um, or low on a certain guy, uh, that you feel, uh,

00:08:13vindicated for, um, the one that I always think of was being really high on, on Tyrese

00:08:20maxi.

00:08:21Um, which wasn't like a, again, it wasn't like a, like a crazy unique opinion, but I

00:08:25think I, I wrote an article back in like 2020, like the spring of January, 2020, where I

00:08:30said he could be the number one pick, um, which obviously wasn't even close to happening,

00:08:34but I think there's, you can, you know, make it, make an argument that he could be in that

00:08:38conversation for a reject, probably not going to be over Anthony Edwards, maybe being a

00:08:42little mellow, but I think you can really argue that, um, trying to think of what are

00:08:46my other ones.

00:08:47This isn't necessarily like a, an evaluation.

00:08:50I mean, I, I like this player, but you mentioned Giddy earlier and I went on the thunder podcast

00:08:54before that and like predicted that they were going to draft him and they did draft him

00:08:58unexpectedly.

00:08:59Um, so that wasn't as much of like a calling my shot on a player being good and more than

00:09:02like a calling my shot on a pick happening.

00:09:05Um, I'm trying to think of anyone who always, that's even more impressive, honestly, because

00:09:10Giddy, I remember was mocked at like 13, 14, 15 range and him going at six, everyone's

00:09:15like, Holy shit.

00:09:16So dude, you nailed that.

00:09:18I'm trying to try, I'm trying to, I'm trying to think of anyone who I was like low on that

00:09:22didn't hit.

00:09:23I mean, like I'm thinking of all like the, a lot of like quote unquote draft Twitter

00:09:27ones.

00:09:28Like I was pretty low on Wiseman who didn't, I was going to ask about Wiseman because that

00:09:30seems to be like, actually, that's a question that I want to ask you.

00:09:34So like draft Twitter, quote unquote, like, um, how did like you, you'll hear some people

00:09:40on national pods and be like, people on Twitter think they're so smart.

00:09:43Like they could like the GMs in the NBA are so good and stuff like that.

00:09:46And I'm like, I don't know, man, I feel like I could be the GM of the nets and do as good

00:09:50of a job.

00:09:51But like, and so when you look to talk about like drafting capabilities of teams, like

00:09:56the sons have been like pretty, like they don't even have a drafting department.

00:10:01Right.

00:10:02Like they've literally been outward about not caring about the draft.

00:10:06And I don't think it's like we're smarter than like GMs, like people on Twitter.

00:10:10But one, like a lot of people have been hired to front offices, like, and have worked in

00:10:13front offices.

00:10:14I've talked to my friends, myself included, um, at times and like that there are a lot

00:10:20of GMs that we know are like bad either because of like nepotism or just like we know their

00:10:25track record.

00:10:26It's like anyone in any, any industry, there's going to be brilliant, good people and there's

00:10:30going to be dumb, not so good people.

00:10:32And I think it's that way in the NBA as well.

00:10:35There's plenty of brilliant scouts, right.

00:10:37That are like the ones in the good front office, plenty of ones that don't really know much.

00:10:41And I also think another thing that I always think about is we have the privilege of not

00:10:47having any other considerations to draft with, right.

00:10:50Cause when I'm thinking about prospects, the lens that I, and you know, most people I guess

00:10:54on the internet view it through is how can we make decisions that move the needle closer

00:10:59to a championship?

00:11:00Whereas there are other goals that franchises have and GMs have and owners have, whether

00:11:04it's like reaching a certain level of wins or making the playoffs or selling tickets

00:11:10or building this kind of roster, right.

00:11:12It's not always about like, they take this player because their scouts think that he's

00:11:18the best where it's like, maybe they, the Warriors take James Wiseman at two cause he

00:11:22was really good at dinner.

00:11:23Like no offense to him or anything.

00:11:26Right.

00:11:27But like, that's right.

00:11:28Great hang.

00:11:29Great hang.

00:11:30James Wiseman.

00:11:31I mean, and like, there's, there's validity to that, you know, totally man.

00:11:36Makes sense to want to, you know, employ people who are good hangs.

00:11:39But generally I think, yeah, it's not like, I know there's plenty of players like quote

00:11:43unquote draft Twitter liked and missed on and didn't like, but I think we people on

00:11:48the internet, you know, draft Twitter is not a monolith.

00:11:51There are a lot of people with different, I think especially this year more than ever,

00:11:54maybe like opinions are just all over the place, but I do think it's like, there's a

00:12:00lot of smart people who do a lot of really good work on here.

00:12:05And there are some, you know, and there's some people who have really good takes and

00:12:09know what they're talking about and people who don't, just like, just like in any field

00:12:13or interest or whatever, so.

00:12:17Very familiar with being one of those people who doesn't know what he's talking about,

00:12:20but still talks about it anyway.

00:12:22I was, I was very, I was super low on Davey on Mitchell and book night, which looks good

00:12:27at the moment.

00:12:28Home runs right there.

00:12:29Home runs.

00:12:30Dude.

00:12:31Yeah.

00:12:33I was too low on Scotty Barnes.

00:12:35I liked him, but I didn't like him as much as I should have.

00:12:38He just signed his, his super, yeah, he did just sign his whole rookie.

00:12:44Rookie max extension.

00:12:45Yeah.

00:12:46Good for him.

00:12:47I mean, he's, he's going to be incredible for the Raptors.

00:12:50Yeah.

00:12:51Great player.

00:12:52All right.

00:12:53So I think we might as well turn to this 2024 draft.

00:12:56You mentioned it there that there's a lot of differing opinions to me as a dude, you

00:13:01know, and all of our, a lot of our fans, you know, a lot of them are not draft experts,

00:13:05so they're going to be coming off a championship.

00:13:07It's a quick turnaround to get to the draft.

00:13:10It's this one seems all over the damn place.

00:13:12I see people with like guys at number one and then somebody else's board has him at

00:13:1610 and it's like absolutely crazy.

00:13:18So like if you were trying to summarize this draft, like what's the elevator pitch for

00:13:23the 2024 NBA draft and it does not have to be positive.

00:13:26I mean, it's not positive.

00:13:28I don't want to like go and lie, but I will say it's, I think the main thing that I come

00:13:32back to is how flat it is and how samey the values of these prospects are.

00:13:37And I think that's one of the biggest reasons why there's so much variation.

00:13:40There is a lack of high end talent.

00:13:42There aren't really super like legit lock star prospects.

00:13:47Like most drafts, there are very good ones and there are prospects who can definitely

00:13:50be stars but might have more risk or prospects who maybe can't be, aren't going to be stars

00:13:56but might be a little bit safer.

00:13:57But I think because of like how close in value, like for example, on my, I have like a, you

00:14:03know, like I think my eighth and 22nd ranked players are in the same tier, right?

00:14:09So it's like even, you know, a team could take a guy who I have ranked like 20th in

00:14:14the, in the, you know, the top 10 and if it's a good fit and makes sense, I'm like, okay,

00:14:17yeah, it's a good pick or someone, you know, or if someone who I have ranked really highly

00:14:21falls like, okay, yeah, I understand that there wasn't really a spot for them.

00:14:25Obviously there are some prospects who I'm like bullish on or not high on that I think

00:14:28regardless should, should go higher, shouldn't go high.

00:14:31But I think just because of how close and narrow the ranges are and how like close everyone

00:14:36is in talent level, there aren't like huge gaps and there isn't a ton of depth really

00:14:40either, at least to me.

00:14:41I think it falls off.

00:14:42I mean, most drafts fall off in the second round, but I think this one might fall off

00:14:47a little bit earlier than most drafts.

00:14:49But I think part of that is not just, I mean, it is this draft being weak, but it's also

00:14:56just how NIL and the COVID years have impacted the decision making of prospects on like the

00:15:03fringe in terms of staying or going.

00:15:06A lot of them will take the certainty in the money that comes with NIL versus, you know,

00:15:11taking their chances in the second round pick or two way market.

00:15:14So that's my general thoughts on the draft.

00:15:16Definitely not strong.

00:15:17I think the general narrative about it being weak is accurate, I would say.

00:15:22And I think the general flatness is going to lead into like a lot of craziness on draft

00:15:31night, which I'm very excited about.

00:15:33Oh yeah.

00:15:34Yeah, hell yeah.

00:15:35I mean, like it's kind of good for the Celtics in that way.

00:15:37It's like, okay, well, you know, someone might fall down or just like, yo, we have this similar

00:15:43opportunity to draft similar type players.

00:15:45It might just be as simple as waiting and see who falls to them.

00:15:48Like betting that someone they like or have as a first rounder is going to fall to them.

00:15:52It's like, yeah, we'll just wait and see who falls, you know?

00:15:54Yeah.

00:15:55So on the Celtics, we have the 30th overall pick and then we have the 54th pick from the

00:16:00Mavs, ironically.

00:16:02So a lot of people think that we're going to trade down to avoid having to pay like

00:16:08the guaranteed salary considering we're over the apron and stuff like that.

00:16:13Because everybody thinks that, I'm just like, I wonder if Brad just like, and because of

00:16:17the type of draft that is, like, it sounds like people want to be moving down.

00:16:20Is it going to be easy to move up?

00:16:21Who knows?

00:16:22I'm not confident that's going to happen, but I'm not ruling it out.

00:16:26Spoonie, I don't know.

00:16:28You're there as well.

00:16:29Like if you had to guess, keep the pick, move up, move down, how, what are you, what are

00:16:33you thinking?

00:16:34Yeah.

00:16:35I'm not sure how much more guaranteed money like a first, late first is than a top of

00:16:41the second.

00:16:42And you don't have to give them any guaranteed money.

00:16:44So there's more flexibility there.

00:16:46But I, I, I think that's a great point, Jake, about like, if it's a flat draft, people are

00:16:51going to want to go fall back in the draft and pick up future assets.

00:16:55And like, if everybody's trying to do that, like that's going to be more expensive or

00:16:59you might get like, yeah, here's a top 45 protected second, the 2029 draft.

00:17:04And it's like, well, is that worth moving down four or five spots?

00:17:07Maybe not.

00:17:08I was, I was pretty confident they were going to move down a couple of days ago, but the

00:17:13more I think about it, I think Brad's just going to stay put and just take the pick at

00:17:1730.

00:17:18Cause look, you're only on the hook for two years anyway, right?

00:17:20You can just decline that third year option.

00:17:23If you want to get a look at that guy.

00:17:24But if there's an opportunity to move down, that makes sense.

00:17:27He probably will.

00:17:29I don't think it'll be anything like last year where it was like 15 trade backs, but

00:17:35yeah, that's where I'm at.

00:17:36I think if I had to guess, it would be just stay put.

00:17:40I think that probably is right.

00:17:42Honestly, I could definitely see them trading down or maybe even out, you know, they don't,

00:17:47they don't have any good offers in second on VIX.

00:17:49Like we'll just take future picks and or cash or whatever considerations and we don't, we

00:17:54don't like anyone.

00:17:55So I think either they trade out or they just stay and pick someone, which is, I think maybe

00:17:59the most likely is just they stick it and take some 30.

00:18:03Let's hope they just stay at 30, just purely for the fact that because the draft is two

00:18:06days and that means they're going to do it for the content group.

00:18:10Yeah, please.

00:18:11That's right.

00:18:12We're going to be freaking streaming this draft and we're going to be waiting for pick

00:18:1530 and he's going to trade backs and then that's kept me up late last year, Brad.

00:18:20I know.

00:18:21All right.

00:18:22So Ben, if you're the Celtics, what type of player is at the, like, are you targeting

00:18:29like Celtics needs?

00:18:31What are you thinking from a Celtics perspective?

00:18:34The Celtics obviously have the luxury of going in basically any direction they want because

00:18:39of their roster.

00:18:40If I were them, I would probably be targeting one because of the way the draft is going

00:18:45to go.

00:18:46I think there's going to be some higher upside projecty types, which considering the Celtics

00:18:53have basically their whole rotation locked, like it looks like they're going to give Derek

00:18:57an extension.

00:18:58They could extend Hauser.

00:18:59They have Tillman's bird rights.

00:19:02They have most of the rotation under team control for at least the next year or two.

00:19:05So they don't really have to worry about drafting like a super ready team, which is a unique

00:19:10situation I think for contenders to be, because usually you see contenders at the back end

00:19:14of the draft where it's like, okay, we're going to draft an old guy who can play.

00:19:18But the Celtics, like, I don't really know if anybody on the board would really play

00:19:23who they drafted.

00:19:24Like maybe if they found someone in like a really specific role that they could use,

00:19:28I wouldn't put it past Mazzuola and Brad and whatever to figure something out, but it's

00:19:32probably most likely that whoever they draft is not playing this year, maybe even next

00:19:37year.

00:19:38So why not then draft someone with some upside, with some potential.

00:19:44And I think that's kind of what they've been doing recently anyway.

00:19:47Like not only with like Walsh, but like a lot of the guys they'd acquired in the past,

00:19:50like Davison and like Yann McDar, I think over the past couple of years.

00:19:53You're locked in, dude.

00:19:54There you go.

00:19:55Yeah.

00:19:56Begarin.

00:19:57Yeah.

00:19:58Yeah.

00:19:59Begarin.

00:20:00Like that's, that's exactly who I would like.

00:20:01Those are the types that I would probably want to target.

00:20:05And then the main names that I think of in that range are Pacome Dadia, I think, or Pacome

00:20:11Dadia.

00:20:12We got a couple people in the chat here.

00:20:15Yeah.

00:20:16French Wing.

00:20:17Him and Nikola Durasic.

00:20:21And then Ulrich Chomchee, I think are the three like main, main like upside swings in

00:20:29that range that I really like, who maybe they don't become anything really, but I think

00:20:33the consequences for missing out on this pick are pretty low.

00:20:39So like Dadia or Chomchee or any of these guys, I think.

00:20:44Hi meme.

00:20:45Dadia.

00:20:46Yeah.

00:20:47Good meme potential from Zach in the chat there.

00:20:48Yeah.

00:20:49I think it's pretty like, but this is how I think of it.

00:20:52Ben, you're right.

00:20:53Like the core is locked.

00:20:54Like not only like the, you know, the core, but the whole rotation.

00:20:57I think the question that they're going to like that we don't 100% know is like, what

00:21:01are they going to do with Cornette and Tillman?

00:21:03It's like, because like, if they know they're going to like just resign those guys and it's

00:21:07like a hundred percent, like take, take high upside guys.

00:21:10But it's like, are we going to lose Tillman and Cornette?

00:21:13Because I think it's become clear to me like Jalen, Jason, Derek, Drew, they're locked

00:21:17in.

00:21:18You just need big man stable.

00:21:22And I was like, what this year?

00:21:23It's like, okay.

00:21:24KP gave us five playoff games, Horford's there.

00:21:26Cornette gave us one big win in Cleveland.

00:21:28Tillman gave us a big game three in Dallas.

00:21:30Like can we just get enough guys that can do something that can help us grab a win or

00:21:34two in the playoffs?

00:21:36Yeah.

00:21:37So for me, it's a shame the draft is before Sam Hauser's option deadline.

00:21:43I mean, obviously worst case scenario, we just pick it up and he's here for one more

00:21:48year.

00:21:49But if we knew he was extended, I would say, yeah, let's look for a big man, specifically

00:21:54a big man that can shoot.

00:21:56And hopefully we can teach him how to protect the rim because that seems to be the issue

00:22:00with most of the bigs that can shoot in this draft.

00:22:02But if we have any indication, Hauser's not going to be around for much longer.

00:22:07I would be looking for wings that can shoot and they must be pretty confident they can

00:22:11teach guys how to play defense because Hauser has turned into a legitimately solid defensive

00:22:16player.

00:22:17So those are the two ones for me is that obviously, you know, if somebody drops who you think

00:22:22is like, wow, this guy's clearly the best player left, you take him, but otherwise I'd

00:22:27be looking for wing shooters and bigs, hopefully that can shoot and maybe turn into a much

00:22:33worse version of Al Horford because we're going to miss, he's irreplaceable.

00:22:36We're going to miss him.

00:22:37Yeah.

00:22:38Sure.

00:22:39Yeah.

00:22:40You should have him for at least one more year.

00:22:41Yep.

00:22:42Yeah.

00:22:43All right.

00:22:44Yeah.

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00:51:12Yeah.

00:51:13Yeah.

00:51:14Yeah.

00:51:15Yeah.

00:51:16Yeah.

00:51:17Yeah.

00:51:18Yeah.

00:51:19Yeah.

00:51:20Yeah.

00:51:21Yeah.

00:51:22Yeah.

00:51:23Yeah.

00:51:24Yeah.

00:51:25Yeah.

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00:51:27Yeah.

00:51:28Yeah.

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00:53:07Yeah.

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00:53:53Yeah.

00:53:54Yeah.

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00:53:58Yeah.

00:53:59Yeah.

00:54:00Yeah.

00:54:01Yeah.

00:54:02Yeah.

00:54:03Yeah.

00:54:04Yeah.

00:54:05Yeah.

00:54:06Yeah.

00:54:07Yeah.

00:54:08Yeah.

00:54:09Yeah.

00:54:10Yeah.

00:54:11Yeah.

00:54:12Yeah.

00:54:13Yeah.

00:54:14Yeah.

00:54:15Yeah.

00:54:16Yeah.

00:54:17Yeah.

00:54:18Yeah.

00:54:19Yeah.

00:54:20Yeah.

00:54:21Yeah.

00:54:22Yeah.

00:54:23Yeah.

00:54:24Yeah.

00:54:25Yeah.

00:54:26Yeah.

00:54:27Yeah.

00:54:28Yeah.

00:54:29Yeah.

00:54:30Yeah.

00:54:31Yeah.

00:54:32Yeah.

00:54:33Yeah.

00:54:34Yeah.

00:54:35Yeah.

00:54:36Yeah.

00:54:37Yeah.

00:54:38He's I like the cut of his chip from the eight minute highlight reel I watched on the watch

00:54:43in Maine.

00:54:44Yeah, yeah.

00:54:45Yeah, exactly.

00:54:46Yeah, I mean, he's a guy who I think, I think he's probably similar.

00:54:50I see him at a similar value, at least to done where he doesn't really have any like

00:54:55special traits where it's done, it's you know, it's like has this genuine like game changing

00:55:00ability to where if he can improve other things, it's like, okay, this guy is going to be a

00:55:05legit legit impact like where Shannon, it's like solid in a lot of areas like it's like

00:55:10good open floor athlete, like really quick has improved a ton as a shooter over the last

00:55:15couple years, right.

00:55:17But one as we kind of talked before, it's like quite old.

00:55:20I think he's already 24.

00:55:23I think.

00:55:24Yeah.

00:55:25Yeah, he's close.

00:55:27He's about to turn 24.

00:55:29Right.

00:55:31Whereas, like, that's, again, possibly an indication that there isn't a ton of growing

00:55:36left there.

00:55:37Definitely, you know, there definitely will be 24 is not people's primes, but it is nearing

00:55:40that that level, where I think Shannon is kind of this again comes down to the thing

00:55:45where it's like, if the Celtics think they're gonna have a hole on the wing this season,

00:55:50then it makes sense to drop the player like Shannon, who isn't probably going to be a

00:55:54star ever, but might have the ability to come in, hit a couple threes, attack a closeout,

00:56:01play some solid defense.

00:56:03But if the Celtics are like, we don't have a spot for that, it's probably not worth waiting

00:56:07till he's like 27.

00:56:09To find out versus drafting guy where it's like, would you rather have 27 year old Terrence

00:56:14Shannon or like 21 year old like daddy Eric, I Sean George or chompy or something like

00:56:19that.

00:56:20So I think Shannon picking Shannon would, again, just like depends on what you're looking

00:56:25for and what your priorities are, where it's like if they want to, I mean, he's not a house

00:56:30replacement, just like very different players.

00:56:32Like if they want a guy who can play on the wing sooner than later, then yeah, I think

00:56:37it makes a lot of sense.

00:56:38But if they want to keep with their theme of going for maybe more project he types who

00:56:43if one hits, they really hit, then it's probably not the right option.

00:56:46But like I said, depends on your priorities.

00:56:49I think Terrence Sharon is just like really fun player to watch, dude.

00:56:53He's he's he's a wildcard, man.

00:56:55But I wouldn't hate him at 30.

00:56:57I think it would.

00:56:58You know, I wouldn't.

00:56:59Shooting is real.

00:57:00That's one last, one last mock draft for work.

00:57:03And I did actually give them Shannon.

00:57:05OK.

00:57:06All right.

00:57:07Nice.

00:57:08Let's go.

00:57:09Yeah.

00:57:10I just think it would make sense is like a we're not sure about our depth next year.

00:57:14We'll just get a guy who we know is going to play.

00:57:16I do think his improvement over the years is also very notable, like since his days

00:57:20at Texas Tech, where he was really just like a super shaky shooter, like not a super confident

00:57:25offensive player versus where where he's, you know, come to Illinois now.

00:57:30And yeah, I think it would, again, like kind of like, you know, like a Don or like some

00:57:35of these players, there might be players who I would prefer or I think might it might be

00:57:39a little better fits.

00:57:40But it would.

00:57:41But but it's not a pick that would make me scratch my head or really like I would yell

00:57:45at it all.

00:57:46Yeah.

00:57:47Let me ask you this.

00:57:48Do you think Shannon's offense is better than O'Shea Bressett's right now?

00:57:50And that's an impossible question to answer.

00:57:52I know.

00:57:53So you can dodge it if you want.

00:57:54That's crazy.

00:57:55Probably.

00:57:56Probably.

00:57:57Yeah, probably.

00:57:58I mean, what?

00:57:59That bar is pretty damn low, right?

00:58:00Yeah, right.

00:58:01Exactly.

00:58:02And he played for us is kind of what I'm getting at.

00:58:03You know, he got 600 minutes.

00:58:04Definitely be a regular season minute eater for sure.

00:58:05Yeah.

00:58:06Like that's definitely, you know, and at the 30th pick, maybe that's what you're getting.

00:58:07Right.

00:58:08You're like, OK, we just you know, we don't see a guy who we think is going to be a real

00:58:09playoff contributor.

00:58:10Let's get someone who we know we can rely on to keep the ship afloat when we need it.

00:58:11Yeah.

00:58:12Yeah.

00:58:13Yeah.

00:58:14Yeah.

00:58:15Yeah.

00:58:16Yeah.

00:58:17Yeah.

00:58:18Yeah.

00:58:19Yeah.

00:58:20Yeah.

00:58:21Yeah.

00:58:24Yeah.

00:58:25Yeah.

00:58:26Yeah.

00:58:27Yeah.

00:58:28Yeah.

00:58:29Yeah.

00:58:30Yeah.

00:58:31Yeah.

00:58:32Yeah.

00:58:33Yeah.

00:58:34Yeah.

00:58:35Yeah.

00:58:36Yeah.

00:58:37Yeah.

00:58:38Yeah.

00:58:39Yeah.

00:58:40Yeah.

00:58:41Yeah.

00:58:42Yeah.

00:58:43Yeah.

00:58:44Yeah.

00:58:45Yeah.

00:58:46Yeah.

00:58:47Yeah.

00:58:48Yeah.

00:58:49Yeah.

00:58:50Yeah.

00:58:51Yeah.

00:58:52Yeah.

00:58:53Yeah.

00:58:54Yeah.

00:58:55Yeah.

00:58:56Yeah.

00:58:57Yeah.

00:58:58All right.

00:58:59All right.

00:59:00Jake, who you got?

00:59:01Well, well they worked him out.

00:59:02Where I just wanna, you go ahead, like I feel like you've you you're like kind of have

00:59:04having your head around college possible a bit more than me.

00:59:05Like I just, I've just crazy for this test today.

00:59:06So like, I feel like you've got some guys to go ahead.

00:59:09Antonio reaves I'm just Hey, he can shoot, you know, when you're at 54, like, do you

00:59:15think there's any chance?

00:59:16I mean, I see him mocked pretty late or undrafted even.

00:59:19I mean, do you think there's any chance they target him that deep in the draft?

00:59:23I think he could totally be there and I think Reeves would be a really solid, a really solid

00:59:29pick there.

00:59:30He, like you said, is an incredible shooter, not like the biggest guy and most athletic,

00:59:35but someone who can come off screen, sit some shots, make some basic passes, hopefully play

00:59:39some solid defense, totally, totally a bench swing that I would like.

00:59:43And Edwards, even though, like I said, I don't think he's going to be there.

00:59:46And I'm definitely a little lower on him, but I think 59 would be a good spot for him

00:59:51because he is, you know, he's fairly built.

00:59:54He has a nice catch and shoot jumper, solid on ball defender, is like a little bit older

01:00:00and lacking in like this, this skill in field departments, but as a second round pick, right?

01:00:04Just talking about more guys who can fill minutes on the wing makes sense as well.

01:00:10I see someone in the chat yelling about Tristan Newton, who I adore.

01:00:15So I would take Tristan in like the top 40 or even, even higher personally.

01:00:20Like I think it's absurd that he's going, that he's being mocked this low as like a,

01:00:27obviously main reason is probably just being that he's an older guy, has been around a

01:00:32long time, but there are plenty of other old prospects who are getting pretty high looks

01:00:37and is good at basically everything, a good shooter, one of the best passers pick, one

01:00:43of the best pick and roll players period in the draft, really effective driver and slasher,

01:00:49crazy smart player on both ends, incredible screen defender and ball defender, very,

01:00:54very smart player overall.

01:00:57He is someone who I think could legit be like a, we can fill playoff minutes with this guy

01:01:02in, in year one or two.

01:01:04And I don't think that's something that I can say.

01:01:06One thing that this draft does have a good amount of, they're like the small guards are

01:01:10pretty good.

01:01:11I mean, and it's not even that small where I think a lot of, a lot of these small guards

01:01:15to end up flaming out of the league are just like, they don't have the size to compete

01:01:21or I think of like a, I don't know, like guys who I liked like Malakai Flynn or like Cassius

01:01:27Winston who super, super talented, gifted players, but just couldn't hang or even think

01:01:32about a guy like Pritchard who was an older guard who succeeded.

01:01:35And I think like a big reason for that is because he's always been really physical and

01:01:39strong and can, can hold up.

01:01:41And though Newton isn't like strong, he's like, why are you thin?

01:01:44He's tall and long.

01:01:45I think that has a similar effect.

01:01:47So he would for sure be one of my favorite picks at, at 54.

01:01:53I think.

01:01:54Who else?

01:01:55Harrison Ingram.

01:01:56I know the Celtics worked out and then you made a video for like kind of a point forward

01:02:01type guy, like nice feel, like slow like, yeah, I made a Harrison Ingram video like

01:02:09three years ago.

01:02:10At least I'm pretty sure that's what I'm like.

01:02:13Or his freshman year at Stanford and he has gotten a lot better since then, which is good.

01:02:17We're at this one.

01:02:18He's more of like an off ball wing type, but another one who I think at 59 like 58 or whatever

01:02:25would be a monumental steal as someone who just should not be there and might fall because

01:02:31he's a little older or not super athletic.

01:02:35But again, improved a ton as a shooter this year.

01:02:38Not the greatest indicators in terms of free throw, but like the volume is good.

01:02:41He's a great mid range score, super smart passer, really smart defender.

01:02:46Another player who not only like can fill minutes on the wing, but I think maybe could

01:02:50be a playoff type player because of how smart he is and how skilled he is.

01:02:55And though this is kind of what we talked about with Tyson, but instead of going from

01:02:59college to the pros, it's from one college team to a better college team.

01:03:03It's like at North Carolina, they didn't really need him to ever handle the ball because they

01:03:08had a bunch of other good guards and great players.

01:03:10But those skills don't go away.

01:03:12They just kind of manifest in different ways.

01:03:15So instead of a guy like Harrison Ingram bringing the ball off the floor and running pick and

01:03:18rolls, it's like using his handle to score off of close outs and second side actions

01:03:23and transition.

01:03:24And I think Ingram feels quite Celtic to me because of his versatile offensive skill set.

01:03:31Another one who I don't think is going to fall.

01:03:34I would like to say something about Tom Chi a little more.

01:03:37Yes.

01:03:38Yeah, please.

01:03:39I think they're keeping Horford and Tillman, man.

01:03:41This guy, like Robert Williams, if we could draft Robert Williams, this doesn't exist

01:03:46because Robert Williams is perfect, but I like Tom Chi.

01:03:49Except his knees.

01:03:50Except for the knees.

01:03:51Yeah.

01:03:52We're drafting Robert Williams with functioning ligaments, but yeah, Tom Chi is someone who

01:04:00they might have to take at 30 or maybe he'll be there at 54.

01:04:03I have no idea.

01:04:06I've heard that there are teams who like him who are picking in that late first range.

01:04:09I've also seen plenty of mocks that have him late in the second.

01:04:13So I don't really know where he's going to go, but he, to me, is one of the most intriguing

01:04:19upside swings in this entire draft.

01:04:21I think he is the single youngest player in the draft, if I'm not mistaken.

01:04:26Yeah, he is.

01:04:27Yeah.

01:04:28Yeah.

01:04:29I'm not even you'll be 18 when the draft happens.

01:04:30Still.

01:04:31I'm pretty sure.

01:04:32Yeah.

01:04:33He's like, yeah, he will be like eight.

01:04:34He'll be like 18 in like six months, which is crazy.

01:04:36He'll be 19 in six months.

01:04:38I mean, yeah.

01:04:39It's absurd.

01:04:40Barely, barely, you know, the deadline to be eligible for the draft.

01:04:45And he is very raw, right?

01:04:47Which which comes with the part, but not maybe as much as I would have thought before watching

01:04:52him where he is a really small, he's a really smart passer.

01:04:57And one of the things that I always like and appreciate about chompy is his willingness

01:05:06to try stuff and his kind of like fearlessness.

01:05:09I think the fact that he's so like inexperienced and raw helps that he doesn't like he doesn't

01:05:13know what he's not supposed to do.

01:05:15So he'll do like he'll like take tough jumpers and try to beat guys off the dribble and often

01:05:20oftentimes it's not working or looking good.

01:05:22But the moments where it does, it's like, holy shit, like that is really impressive.

01:05:26And of course, defensively is like the main selling point where he has some of the best

01:05:31athletic tools in the entire draft, not just his vertical explosion and like length, but

01:05:37his ability to move side to side to kind of track back and forth, like drop back and pick

01:05:43and roll coverages and to slide on the perimeter.

01:05:46And again, someone who is like a Bruno Caboclo two years away from being two years away,

01:05:52but with some of the most intriguing upside in this draft.

01:05:56I think for a team like the Celtics, it's like we've been good at developing players.

01:05:59We don't need our guy to play right away.

01:06:01It could be a really intriguing option to where, yeah, we just like let this guy sit

01:06:05in the G League and learn and hang on main for a while.

01:06:08And so we're ready to end up playing this person if they're able to.

01:06:13And I think he would bring a lot of the same elements that a player like Rob Williams did

01:06:17that like above the rim finishing some playmaking, some rim protection, never really like perfect.

01:06:25I think for a Celtics team, he played goalie too.

01:06:28He did play goalie.

01:06:29Which is so crazy, dude.

01:06:31What a terrifying thought of like a 6'10 guy with like a 7'4 wingspan or whatever.

01:06:36He probably can touch both ends of the goal.

01:06:38Yes, so awesome.

01:06:39But it's like, again, for a Celtics team who, especially if he's there at 54, right?

01:06:44It's like, we're not going to play anyone who we draft.

01:06:46We might not even play anyone we draft at 30, might as well take someone who we think

01:06:49could be a legit impact starter down the line.

01:06:53And I think Chomchee is that guy and he's someone who I didn't really expect to like,

01:07:00to be honest.

01:07:02Like I'm kind of surprised that like he's as interesting as he actually is because he's

01:07:09not just like a totally raw, clueless player who can't play and doesn't know what he's

01:07:13doing.

01:07:14It's like he has some feel and he has some skills, but I would be totally fine taking

01:07:18him at 30.

01:07:19I don't know if they will, but I think that'd be totally fine pick.

01:07:21Yeah, you'd be bonkers to pass him at 54, I think.

01:07:24Like the upsides are just so crazy.

01:07:26I doubt he falls that far.

01:07:28Even if he's been mocked there, it's one of those guys where it's like, I doubt it.

01:07:32Somebody's going to take the flyer on him for sure.

01:07:35I'm kind of out of names here, Jake, I'm digging deep in the back.

01:07:38Let's let Ben get rid of us, unless Ben, unless you want to throw any more out, like you talk

01:07:43to your mans, do it.

01:07:44I saw someone in the chat saying about AJ Johnson, who I do like, and I feel like I

01:07:49can pander to your NBL bias.

01:07:51There we go.

01:07:52But yeah, Justin Tatum, Tatum's dad, I think coached him.

01:07:55So there you go.

01:07:56I think AJ Johnson is the second best NBL prospect in this class, which isn't saying

01:08:01a ton, just because I don't love like.

01:08:04Because you hate Bobby and obviously he's not Saar, so.

01:08:08I mean, you know, it's like all the other guys are like Bobby, it's like Trenton Flowers,

01:08:12like Montessor DeVicious, like a bunch of fringy guys.

01:08:15But I think AJ of these fringy guys is definitely the most interesting where he is like a tall

01:08:23point guard with incredible movement skills and is showing the ability to pass the ball

01:08:27to pick and roll and to honestly defend a little bit above his above the level that

01:08:32I kind of expected him to.

01:08:35I didn't really love his tape in high school, to be honest.

01:08:37I'm kind of like he's someone again who I'm surprised to I'm surprised how much I like

01:08:43in terms of like a second round flyer because he wasn't really that interesting to me as

01:08:46a high school prospect.

01:08:47But in the NBL, he got a lot better, like reading the game out.

01:08:51One of the things that he's really good at that I value is like keeping his dribble alive

01:08:54and keeping his options open, which a lot of young players are afraid to do or can't

01:08:58do.

01:08:59He's like super weak in the frame, needs a lot of work.

01:09:02But another like 19 year old who is super mobile and can get over screens and stuff

01:09:09overall.

01:09:10And I think it's worth noting.

01:09:12And this is something that super chompy as well as both of them played really good in

01:09:16the combine scrimmages, which isn't everything.

01:09:18But I think people are kind of waking up to that.

01:09:20It does kind of matter.

01:09:21Like you'll see guys like Jalen Williams, Christian Brown, Andrew Nembhard, who all

01:09:24dominated that setting.

01:09:26And though it's one or two games, I think it's an interesting one or two games because

01:09:30there's no coaching or system or teammates to hide you.

01:09:33It's a bunch of dudes you don't know and have never played with and a coach you don't know

01:09:37and whatever plays you don't know.

01:09:38It's like, all right, just go.

01:09:40Just go figure it out.

01:09:42And AJ looks great.

01:09:43Chompy looks great, especially considering the combine scrimmages are generally an older

01:09:48group, right?

01:09:49And both of those guys are teenagers.

01:09:52So I think Johnson is like, I wouldn't want him at 30.

01:09:55But in the second round, I would very much be cool with that.

01:10:01And I think holding Brawny hostage would be funny.

01:10:03Yeah.

01:10:05How's this for a comp for AJ?

01:10:07Like a smaller version of Jalen Johnson, just like athletic, long, good handle.

01:10:12And that's kind of about it right now.

01:10:14But there's something there.

01:10:16Yeah, maybe.

01:10:16I mean, just like someone who can really like, I don't know.

01:10:20I don't mean he's going to be as good.

01:10:22I just mean from like a skill.

01:10:23Yeah, I see the I see your vision, right?

01:10:26All right.

01:10:26Thank you.

01:10:27Yeah, that was very nice.

01:10:30I mean, there's a like there is a lot of value in players who are tall and can dribble,

01:10:35right?

01:10:35It's like, I don't know what else you can do, but that's a super valuable combination

01:10:38of traits.

01:10:39And something I think very, very worth betting on.

01:10:42I did have a bit where I would like early in the season, every time I did a mock, I

01:10:45would just give the Celtics Brawny because I think it's funny.

01:10:48It is funny.

01:10:49Yeah.

01:10:50Come on down, LeBron.

01:10:51Come get him.

01:10:52Come get him.

01:10:53It's so funny.

01:10:54I really, I really hope they take him in the second round if he's available.

01:10:59I mean, that's it.

01:11:00That's a fun little subplot to the trough.

01:11:01It's just the Brawny thing.

01:11:03What's going to what's going to happen?

01:11:05And I think he's pretty solid.

01:11:07It's probably a little better than he's getting credit for, but still would be objectively

01:11:11hilarious if the Lakers took him in the first round.

01:11:14Oh my God, that would be awesome.

01:11:16Yeah, he's so good.

01:11:17I love it.

01:11:17It's like the biggest franchise sabotaging move.

01:11:24JJ Redick, he's got his work cut out for him.

01:11:27I don't think he'll oversee that one.

01:11:29I don't know if he'll approve of that one.

01:11:30I think he's probably got too good of a head on his shoulders for that.

01:11:34But that seems like a Darvin Ham type of move, honestly.

01:11:39Well, hopefully they release a Mind the Game episode breaking down

01:11:42Brawny James's draft tape.

01:11:44I don't know, I see it.

01:11:46He can fit right along.

01:11:47He played the two, played the three.

01:11:50That would be awesome.

01:11:50Look, Ben, you've been incredibly generous with your time.

01:11:55Ben Pfeiffer on Twitter, on YouTube as well.

01:11:59Just a variety of really good hoops content.

01:12:02I think the first time I really got turned on to you was after the Tillman trade.

01:12:06I looked up on YouTube, you had a Xavier Tillman is a genius video.

01:12:09That is one of my most viewed YouTube videos.

01:12:12Yeah, that's because the Celtics fans, baby.

01:12:14There we go.

01:12:14Right, it got no views at the time.

01:12:16And then once the trade happened, I'm like, oh my God, this video has 8,000 views.

01:12:22So I'll have to make a video of everyone who, of whoever the Celtics draft, and be like,

01:12:27this player is the next super.

01:12:29Yes, it'll work.

01:12:30It'll absolutely work.

01:12:31Next Jalen Johnson.

01:12:33I do adore Xavier Tillman though.

01:12:35And I also just want to say, I want to express how much I love Jaden Springer,

01:12:39and I hope they pick up on that.

01:12:40Okay.

01:12:42All right.

01:12:42Interesting.

01:12:42All right.

01:12:43Well, that's good.

01:12:43Because I'm like, is he just not like Ryan Dunn?

01:12:47I don't, yeah, he's guard Ryan Dunn.

01:12:49But like, he seems like a good guy.

01:12:53I think he's going to be good.

01:12:54I love him.

01:12:54And then I love him.

01:12:55All right.

01:12:55Yeah, yeah.

01:12:57Man, we saved him from the streets of Philadelphia and brought him in,

01:13:01and he's instantly become a champion.

01:13:04So we're happy.

01:13:06Most of y'all can't say that.

01:13:07He's an NBA champion.

01:13:08That's right.

01:13:09Champ, champ.

01:13:10But yeah, Ben Spooney, it's been a pleasure.

01:13:13Everybody go follow Ben Pfeiffer.

01:13:14We'll have all the details in the description.

01:13:17But yeah, incredible.

01:13:18Just a ball Noah, just a ball Noah.

01:13:20And we need more of those.

01:13:23All right, everyone.

01:13:23Thank you for the chat.

01:13:24Thank you, everybody.

01:13:25Talk soon.

01:13:26I love the Celtics!

What Will the Boston Celtics do on Draft Night? (w/ Ben Pfeifer) | First to the Floor

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