Welcome to the Mike Vrabel era! Andrew and CLNS president John Zannis break down all of Vrabel's initial comments as Patriots head coach, his evolving dynamic with Eliot Wolf, how Vrabel is already walking the walk and who could be the Patriots' next possible offensive coordinator.
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SportsTranscript
00:00:00So the Patriots have a new head coach, and as we record here midday Tuesday, the last
00:00:19five days have brought a lot.
00:00:20Not only Mike Vrabel on Sunday, and before that, a column I'm writing, riding shotgun
00:00:25with my in-laws down to a belated Christmas on Saturday, anticipating Mike Vrabel get
00:00:28tired, and Ben Johnson was interviewed before that, but then we had a press conference
00:00:32introducing Mike Vrabel, said head coach.
00:00:34He was on the radio this morning.
00:00:36You've had theories about Elliott Wolfe, how things are going to get reorganized and relabeled,
00:00:40and I just said, you know what?
00:00:41I'm a little bit tired.
00:00:42So in the name of yet another new era in New England, we are going to bring on for the
00:00:46first time El Presidente John Zanis of Zealandist Media to sit and watch me bask in this tiredness,
00:00:53in this malaise, in this laziness, some would say, of what's going to happen here, and normally
00:00:58this would be a solo show, but I also thought it'd be better to bring John on, a long-time
00:01:01veteran of this media, and obviously my boss in this capacity, to just kind of balance
00:01:06me sitting alone, talking to myself, and still get to the heart of so much we have to get
00:01:11to with the Mike Vrabel era, and you were there Monday for the press conference.
00:01:13Yeah, yeah, and I finally got you.
00:01:17I've gotten on everybody's show.
00:01:19I find my way.
00:01:20I find my way on, but I promise not to get too much in the way, but yeah, I was there,
00:01:24and again, it was, I mean, I always find these things entertaining and funny, these coach
00:01:29hiring, because you've got a bunch of media there trying to do their jobs, and then like
00:01:32a bunch of people clapping, and it's always a bit of a spectacle, but there's a lot you
00:01:37can glean from it, and I think especially, Andrew, as you compare it to the Gerard Mayo
00:01:42press conference from a year ago, just how night and day it was, just in terms of, I
00:01:48guess the phrase that comes to mind with Mike Vrabel is command presence, and he really
00:01:53had it, and is nailing your introductory press conference the most important thing
00:01:59in terms of becoming a successful head coach?
00:02:01No, but it's a nice start.
00:02:03Yeah, just ask Joe Judge.
00:02:06Supposedly nailed his introductory press conference and lost 70% of his games with the Giants,
00:02:10so we're going to get into that press conference, what Vrabel said.
00:02:14Granted, it's been a little bit longer than 24 hours since Mike spoke, so by the time
00:02:18you hear this or watch this, it gets a little bit more stale.
00:02:22He did have some notable comments this morning on WEI, and we're going to dive into comments
00:02:26he also gave to Tommy Curran, our pal, about Elliot Wolfe's role and what Elliot may or
00:02:31may not have dealt with last year, and then look ahead, because it looks like Josh McDaniels
00:02:36is primed for round three, and I don't know how many coaches in NFL history have worked
00:02:39for the same team in the same position, but Josh McDaniels, come on down.
00:02:43Meantime, I want to give a quick shout out to Game Time and PrizePix for always sponsoring
00:02:46us here on the podcast, and they will continue throughout next year, which is awesome, considering
00:02:52they've been good to me on a personal level, they've been good to the show, and I don't
00:02:55know, we love the good folks.
00:02:57You'll deal with them more than I do, but I know they've been at least fun as a user
00:03:00and sponsor.
00:03:02What's important is that they love you, and they keep coming back, which is really all
00:03:06that matters.
00:03:07Yeah.
00:03:08All right, so big takeaways from Monday, what we liked from Mike Vrabel the last 24 hours,
00:03:11what we didn't like, because you know what?
00:03:13It's not, as much as we're in the honeymoon phase, there are going to be moments when
00:03:18things are, eh, didn't love that.
00:03:21What did he mean?
00:03:22Getting back to his comment about Elliot Wolfe, leftover quotes and notes, I want you to pick
00:03:24one thing that I've listed here in a rundown, and then what's next.
00:03:27And then some leaked sources who Doug and I talked to over the weekend about Mike Vrabel
00:03:32and the things that most interest you there.
00:03:34But you already hit on this.
00:03:36When you listen to Mike Vrabel, when you watched him, there was just a calm and a command and
00:03:41a clarity in his vision, and you just feel like there's no more North Star nonsense.
00:03:47Right.
00:03:48He knows what he wants.
00:03:49He knows how to get there.
00:03:50He knows what he looks like.
00:03:52And most importantly, as I wrote today for the Herald, not only is he talking the talk,
00:03:56he's kind of walking the walk.
00:03:57And the two quick examples that I gave, and I'm curious if you noticed this or put any
00:04:00stock into it or don't at all, was just like Gerard, he's talking about making connections.
00:04:05I want to make connections with the players so I can ring them out, but they know it's
00:04:07coming from a place of love.
00:04:09He finishes his press conference, and the first two people he greets are not his boss,
00:04:14It's not his wife, Jen, who were the two people seated closest to him up at the podium.
00:04:19He in fact walks by both of them to get to David Andrews and Joe Cardona.
00:04:23Before that, he also cites an example of what he told players as he met briefly with them
00:04:28and chit chat.
00:04:29And here's a quote, which speaks to his brutal honesty, as we all know Mike Vrabel is famous
00:04:33for.
00:04:34We just want to be good enough to take advantage of bad football.
00:04:36That's what I've tried to tell all the players.
00:04:37I don't know if we're good enough right now to take advantage of bad football.
00:04:41So the whole day is about talking the talk, but John, I look at this and felt it and watched
00:04:46him from afar and said, he's already walking the walk and that's the most important thing.
00:04:51Yeah.
00:04:52I mean, look, you hit it on the head and those were all of the points is he did a really
00:04:56good job of being, you know, both like humble, forthcoming, but also not really necessarily
00:05:01revealing much, but staying on point, staying on message, having a clear vision.
00:05:05If you can compare it to, I hate making everything a referendum on Gerard Mayo's tenure as a
00:05:10coach, but again, it really is a night and day sort of vibe to it.
00:05:14You know, I remember, and again, I'm going to paraphrase a little bit, but like he's
00:05:19got an idea what he wants to do.
00:05:20We don't know whether or not it's going to translate to wins, but it's very clear.
00:05:24He has an idea of what he wants to do here and what kind of coach he wants to be.
00:05:28I'm pulling up a Mayo quote from, from, from, from his press conference asked about his
00:05:33vision for the offense.
00:05:34The answer was, I would say energy, the passion, the leaders on the offensive side of the ball.
00:05:40You got to have that stuff in place.
00:05:43What does that mean?
00:05:44It didn't mean anything, you know, and Vrabel was very clear about some of the stuff he
00:05:49was talking about.
00:05:50And I love, that was my, one of my favorite things in addition to the presence was that,
00:05:53that he's talking about the offense.
00:05:55He's talking about it early because he knows that what do you have going for you here in
00:05:59new England?
00:06:00You got one thing, you've got Drake May and really nothing else.
00:06:03And so that was, if he addressed anything in terms of specifics to personnel and football,
00:06:09it's we got to protect him.
00:06:10We got to maximize him.
00:06:11We got to make sure that Drake May is supported and in a position to kind of help lead the
00:06:16team here.
00:06:17So again, he had it, he had it going on.
00:06:21He looked the part, he acted the part.
00:06:24And I think, you know, if you're going to grade it, that was an A plus a press conference
00:06:29from Vrabel.
00:06:30Yeah.
00:06:31It looks like me as an easy grader, John, I mean, you have me still here on the network
00:06:36after all these years.
00:06:37I don't know.
00:06:38Maybe that it does make you an easy grader, but like a plus refreshing look.
00:06:43And what's, what's interesting to me is like, it's so funny, just the vision and how you
00:06:47get from one place to, you know, from Belichick to Mayo to, to, to, to Vrabel.
00:06:52It's like, you know, this one's too hot.
00:06:53This one's too cold, but the third one was just right.
00:06:57You know, like perfect.
00:06:59And that's kind of hit that tone.
00:07:00And that's, what's interesting here is I always thought the Mayo missteps had a lot to do
00:07:04with not being enough like Belichick in the areas that he needed to be.
00:07:07And Vrabel presents himself as a guy who's going to bridge that gap in between, which
00:07:12is, as you mentioned before, he is a player's type coach.
00:07:16He's the type of guy that if you do what I tell you to do and, and, and, and, and stay
00:07:21on point and work hard, I'm going to be your best buddy in the world.
00:07:24Whereas Gerard Mayo was kind of like a first time parent who's like, I'm going to let my
00:07:28kids, you know, eat chocolate cake and do whatever they want.
00:07:32And then you lose control and you're like, Holy crap, I can't get these guys to listen
00:07:35to me anymore.
00:07:36So you get the sense of Vrabel is going to, at least they're going to have, they're going
00:07:40to listen to what he has to say again.
00:07:43We'll see whether that translates to anything, but that's the vibe you got off of it.
00:07:47And I think that that's refreshing considering just what a catastrophe almost every aspect
00:07:52of last season was as far as that was concerned.
00:07:55It was, you mentioned the offense and I think there was, you know, the, to go back a second
00:08:00grading it.
00:08:02And I want to go back a second to something you said, cause I'm going to stir a little,
00:08:04I'm going to stir.
00:08:05I'm going to stir the pot a tad, but go ahead.
00:08:09Podcasts famous for bouncing around.
00:08:10It's just living up to its reputation.
00:08:14The point I'm going back to is just to say, you know, that he got this A plus, I called
00:08:18it a tie today in my column, which is perfect.
00:08:20This is naturally a more performative day with the press conference and you need to
00:08:24win this and that people say, Oh, did they lose press conference?
00:08:26Whatever.
00:08:27No one cares.
00:08:28Like football is played on the field.
00:08:29It's coached in the field.
00:08:31And if I say this as someone whose job is tied to these events, I don't care.
00:08:35But the things that I was encouraged by what we just talked about, the clarity.
00:08:38Now, when he was discussing the offense, what I liked is that he seemed to speak authentically
00:08:43of we want to be versatile enough.
00:08:45Okay.
00:08:46We don't want to dabble in everything.
00:08:48We want to weaponize motions and shifts, but also do it with a purpose and everything starts
00:08:53up front.
00:08:54So he's, he's saying things that still live in the realm of like cliches and obvious points,
00:09:00but delivers it.
00:09:01So that you're galvanizing a fan base, which he wants to do.
00:09:03And also getting a point across subtly that says it's upfront, the offensive lines get
00:09:07a lot of his attention.
00:09:08That's how they were built in Tennessee.
00:09:10But secondary, uh, secondary to that is an efficient passing game.
00:09:14I don't know if this is a Cleveland thing with him coming from, you know, the most analytically
00:09:18driven organization in the NFL, but that to me caught my attention when it's like, we
00:09:22don't want to throw the ball over the yard.
00:09:24And he said something this morning on EI we're going to get to later, but the offensive stuff,
00:09:28it wasn't like we're going to be conservative, but it kind of indicated to that.
00:09:31And we're going to get back to more meat and potatoes here, starting with the offensive
00:09:34line.
00:09:35Yeah.
00:09:36And that was it asked point blank, right?
00:09:38Number four pick.
00:09:39That was the question there.
00:09:40What do you, what do you plan on doing in this and that?
00:09:41And he just said, look, you can't do anything in football until you, unless you can protect
00:09:45the quarterback.
00:09:46So, um, he threw that out straight away as, as, as a thing and supporting Drake may and
00:09:53getting people around, uh, Drake may, uh, to, to make his job easier.
00:09:57We might even have a bite here on it.
00:09:59We're going to, we're going to play for you, develop him as, as a leader of the offense.
00:10:02And when that our quarterback, you know, when they call the play, like you want to say like
00:10:07everybody's going to believe that it's going to score a touchdown, like with that type
00:10:10of, um, emphasis on, on how everything is going to operate.
00:10:16And uh, you know, we're, Drake is going to be his own person, but, but I'm going to give
00:10:21him some things that I feel like are necessary to, to help us win football games.
00:10:25We have to, um, be a very efficient passing football team.
00:10:32Efficient there's that word that, that can mean a lot of things, right?
00:10:36Yeah, right.
00:10:37Exactly.
00:10:38Like I'm going to speak in a way that I'm not just bullshitting you right away, but
00:10:41I'm going to, you know, I'm going to come off as saying true things, but truly not tip
00:10:47my hand.
00:10:48Good job.
00:10:49That's a guy in command who's in control.
00:10:51Who's doing what he needs to that day and then gets onto the real football.
00:10:54The last thing that we, I think it's fair to say that we definitely took away in these
00:10:57kind of big takeaways from Monday, the shotgun marriage, Elliot Wolfe, he named him six times
00:11:04K indicating their collaborate.
00:11:06He didn't give a straight answer and who has roster control.
00:11:08Those decisions will sort themselves out.
00:11:10Yeah.
00:11:11Andrew, I think that's the biggest thing by far.
00:11:13This isn't clear.
00:11:14The shotgun marriage.
00:11:15It's weird.
00:11:16Uh, I think the picture is probably like they know what they're going to do.
00:11:20And I think, you know, in his guy and I mean, even, uh, Adam Schefter goes on, uh, the,
00:11:26uh, the, um, Pat Mack is the Potter and they're in there is the man they're pushing them.
00:11:32They're pushing them.
00:11:33They're pushing them.
00:11:34They're pushing them.
00:11:35Who's got final say.
00:11:36Who's got final say.
00:11:37And he just braves as a man.
00:11:38And they're, ah, yeah.
00:11:39And that's the vibe, right?
00:11:40It's going to be just the old ton of this going on.
00:11:43Anybody, no matter what they say, good job by you.
00:11:47Yeah.
00:11:48Yeah.
00:11:49Yeah.
00:11:50And they're coming in and that's, and that's, that's probably that.
00:11:51So the question is, can it work?
00:11:54Like, let's assume that that's what's going on here.
00:11:57I can't see a world.
00:11:58You're not going to do this again.
00:11:59This collaborative thing.
00:12:01Someone's got to be in charge.
00:12:02It doesn't have to, it's not just football operations.
00:12:04It doesn't matter what line of work you're in.
00:12:06Someone's got to make a final decision or do we just assume Vrabel is the guy making
00:12:12the final decision.
00:12:13And then who's he going to lean on?
00:12:14Is he going to lean on his guy?
00:12:16Probably.
00:12:18He wouldn't lean.
00:12:19He wouldn't listen to others.
00:12:20But now are you developing factions?
00:12:21Well, I didn't want this guy.
00:12:23He wanted this guy.
00:12:24That's a problem.
00:12:25You already saw a lot of finger pointing at the end of the year between Mayo and Wolf
00:12:28and Wolf's department on, well, I thought the players would develop better.
00:12:34That's a shot at Mayo and Mayo saying, I don't know if these guys are necessary.
00:12:37So you can't have that.
00:12:38If everybody's going to play nice in the sandbox, that's okay.
00:12:42But you got to be perfectly clear.
00:12:43Otherwise, I don't see how the existing personnel can stay for much longer if they're not going
00:12:50to concede that, hey, these guys are kind of running it and we're okay taking a backseat
00:12:54in this case.
00:12:56So a couple of things on this.
00:12:57Number one, because I know I've said this elsewhere, I can still envision three different
00:13:02scenarios related to Elliott Wolf and how this ends up.
00:13:04Number one, he keeps his title and role and all the power that it comes with as the head
00:13:09of the personnel department and roster controller, at least the most significant input in the
00:13:13department.
00:13:15Number two is he takes it to motion in mid-May, when normally the front offices in the league
00:13:19all reshuffle.
00:13:20And Ryan Cowden coming over from the Giants, but before that, Tennessee, when he works
00:13:24with Rabel, will be de facto GM, whatever you want to call it.
00:13:28Or come mid-May, Elliott Wolf says, I'll go elsewhere.
00:13:32This is not what I signed up for.
00:13:35This is not what the plan was.
00:13:37And this is as much on Gerrard as it is the Crafts, et cetera, et cetera.
00:13:40And the reason I still believe in number two is because he's a scout at heart.
00:13:43Now, that being said, I do think there will be a feeling out process here from Rabel and
00:13:48Elliott Wolf.
00:13:49We know this morning, talking about things that we'd like that we've heard since then.
00:13:52He said on EI, I spent multiple hours with Elliott this morning.
00:13:55We went over the roster, went over staffing, what we need to do, et cetera, et cetera.
00:13:58I think there's a world in which Mike Rabel and Elliott Wolf are like, you know what?
00:14:03Let's date for four months and see how it goes by the end.
00:14:05Maybe this works out because Mike is going to-
00:14:07But it's an open, but it's going to be an open relationship.
00:14:10Right, right.
00:14:12I respect your resume.
00:14:13As much as everyone in New England thinks that they've got Elliott Wolf figured out
00:14:16based on one bad draft class and one underwhelming for Asian class near that they were trying
00:14:20to reset the roster.
00:14:21He goes, you were in Green Bay, model franchise in terms of team building and discipline,
00:14:25been an assistant GM, all this different stuff.
00:14:27Let's see what you got.
00:14:28Okay.
00:14:29And at the end, he just might go, you're not for me.
00:14:31And I'm going to go with my guy that I know who's already going to come in the building.
00:14:34Or he goes, maybe this can work.
00:14:36The one thing I'll say this though, Ryan Cowden coming in to be Elliott Wolf's number two
00:14:43says to me, John, Elliott doesn't have the power.
00:14:47Because if you had the power, you get to pick your right hand man.
00:14:50And in this scenario, inevitably that comes up in free agency or the draft where Rabel
00:14:55and Ryan Cowden who are aligned and we're Tennessee about a player and Elliott Wolf
00:14:59says, I disagree.
00:15:00Number one's going to lose out, which really doesn't make you number one at all.
00:15:05Yeah.
00:15:06And again, whichever of the scenarios you point out, I think the final conclusion is
00:15:11Elliott Wolf will not have final say over personnel matters.
00:15:13Elliott Wolf may be able to coexist with the new world order that starts with Mike Rabel
00:15:18at the top and, and, and involves, you know, a collaborative effort with his guy, Ryan
00:15:22Cowden or he leaves.
00:15:25And I think that's clear.
00:15:26And it's been honestly pretty clear since even Robert Kraft spoke after for the Gerard
00:15:31Mayo firing press conference and asked about it.
00:15:34And he's like, he's, he's going to, he's going to stick around, but that was, it had
00:15:37a very for now sort of feel.
00:15:40So yeah, this one is a little bit weird and I think we'll continue to be, but I actually
00:15:46probably think Braves has a good idea where he's going to be going with this and it's
00:15:50probably not going to end up being much of an issue.
00:15:53Talked about other things that we liked from this press conference.
00:15:56And again, one of the things that I liked, and I know a lot of people have hit on it
00:16:00and I'm just going to throw it up there.
00:16:02And I'm curious why this word choice was a variable here talking about basically clean
00:16:09slate, but you got to earn your place here.
00:16:12We're going to remove entitlement from, from our football team.
00:16:18We're going to, we're going to get everything that we've earned from, from the head coach
00:16:22to the position coaches, all the way down to the players.
00:16:26And we're going to earn the right to be here every single day.
00:16:30So look, it makes sense for a coach to say something along the lines of everyone's starting
00:16:36in here.
00:16:37You come in, you work hard.
00:16:38You're going to do this.
00:16:39You do that.
00:16:40Removing something like entitlement means Mike Vrabel has seen and, and sniffed out
00:16:47a bit of entitlement that he thinks here might've taken place last year among some players.
00:16:53So it feels like he's got a red laser pointer already kind of fixated on some people who
00:16:59he might have heard or did not like, or could see from afar or has done his own investigation
00:17:05to say, I don't know where these guys are coming from, but holy crap, is that not going
00:17:09to stand?
00:17:11That's how I read that there, that there are people in this organization who might, might've
00:17:15been a little entitled and that's kind of a watch your, watch your, you know, watch
00:17:19your ass here.
00:17:20Like that's, that's not, that's not going to, that's not going to work.
00:17:24And I don't know if this is personal or a strictly professional sense.
00:17:29I don't get the sense that Vrabel had a lot of regard for the way the Patriots were doing
00:17:33football business last year on the field.
00:17:36And it could have been the comments in the media from the players that could have been
00:17:38comments from Mayo.
00:17:39Again, I don't know his relationship with Mayo.
00:17:41They were teammates very briefly.
00:17:43Okay.
00:17:44And obviously coaching league for most of the last four or five years.
00:17:46But for him to say that the word remove is doing so much heavy lifting.
00:17:52It's not when I initially heard it, I I'll admit like it was within the context of him
00:17:56talking about NIL and there's a new type of player.
00:17:59We need to get accustomed to that, be able to coach them and move forward because they
00:18:03have expectations and it's not the same old player we've been dealing with.
00:18:05I was like, Oh, there's the entitlement.
00:18:06I'm 18.
00:18:07I have a six figure contract depending on where I went to college, sometimes multimillion
00:18:11dollar contract.
00:18:12And then you get to the NFL and it's just like college going from high school to college.
00:18:15They've got to de-recruit you.
00:18:17And then listening back, I was like, Oh no, he's saying it's here right now and we've
00:18:20got to rip it out by the roots.
00:18:22And that's going to happen.
00:18:24I think whenever you have an old school coach, which is really what Frabel is at heart, but
00:18:28that says not only have I seen it and heard it from afar, but in his full week of being
00:18:34able to prepare and interview and look around the league, like he's had even before then,
00:18:40because the consulting job was not part-time, but it didn't take up every single day.
00:18:43Like a coaching job would in Cleveland, he had time to dig this out and call people and
00:18:48learn and ask.
00:18:49And obviously that was some part of what he dug up in that whole process.
00:18:52Yeah.
00:18:53Which also leads you to believe the people who he talked to might've thought it was an
00:18:56even bigger issue than we even made it out to be.
00:18:58And we made it out to be a pretty big issue because these media missteps and people kind
00:19:03of talking out of school popped up early and it infected almost every single position group.
00:19:08This was endemic.
00:19:09It wasn't just, Oh, a couple of guys, it was everywhere.
00:19:13And my guess is the people he talked to, there must've been some eye rolls like, yeah, man,
00:19:17it was bad.
00:19:19So this is something he's coming in clearly with a, you know, top of list sort of thing.
00:19:24Like, yeah, we're not, we're not doing that at all.
00:19:27So I'm going to circle back to something that you talked about earlier in terms of the reception
00:19:32that he got and Vrabel going in and talking to the players were also, as you mentioned,
00:19:35going to talk about some things we might not have fully liked that came out of the press
00:19:39conference and some interesting comments that we got to figure out how we're going to read
00:19:42into that.
00:19:43Because Vrabel, I don't like a couple of the things that he said, either it be, I'm
00:19:47curious about the Tom Curran comment.
00:19:49We'll talk about that.
00:19:50And I really, really don't like the throwing and running comment, which we're going to
00:19:54hit on in just a little bit.
00:19:56But first off, we're going to take a pause.
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00:21:02There's a little voice crackle there, Andrew.
00:21:03I just noticed.
00:21:04I hear it every time.
00:21:05We need to do a new one.
00:21:06We might have to do that one again.
00:21:07It's leaking out at the end.
00:21:08I really like this hat.
00:21:09I thought I forgot in high school, and there it is, just reminding me every time we do
00:21:14that.
00:21:16I will say, I don't like to flex very often, but I smashed it last week, I gotta tell you,
00:21:24and it was easy because you just picked the stars.
00:21:26Oh, your playoff picks?
00:21:28Yeah.
00:21:29I smashed.
00:21:30I only did the Saturday picks.
00:21:31It was Nico Moore on yards, Nico the touchdown, you know, .5 on the touchdown, Derek Henry
00:21:37Moore on yards, and the easiest one by far, as we were talking about entitlement, was
00:21:41Ladd McConkie, you know, speaking of, you know, who will be linked to the Patriots probably
00:21:48for the rest of his life.
00:21:49Moore on that one.
00:21:50He smashed, going 197 yards there, and that's going to hurt every single time something
00:21:55like that happens, but yes, for those of you out there, check it out.
00:21:59Playoffs is a really fun time, and the stars are out.
00:22:01A lot of good options here.
00:22:03As Andrew said, download the app, promo code CLNS to get moving here.
00:22:09Some things we didn't like from the Mike Vrabel press conference.
00:22:12Now, let me give you a couple of ones I still like because these are the tools we need.
00:22:15Oh, you still like things?
00:22:16It's very obvious.
00:22:17Yeah.
00:22:18Number one, his stated goals, right?
00:22:20Like before with Durant, and we're going to do the comparison thing that happens with
00:22:24every new coach that comes in and, you know, hold it up in one hand and then the old guy
00:22:28or the new guy in the other, you know, he said, look, we need to take advantage of bad
00:22:32football, then we're going to win the AFC East, and we plan to host home playoff games
00:22:36and compete for championships.
00:22:37Perfect.
00:22:38It's a natural, normal progression.
00:22:40It's not, oh, we're trying to win and find foundational pieces, even if that's reasonable
00:22:44because it's just the goalposts moved.
00:22:46Number two was a quote from Troy Brown, and this obviously was after the press conference.
00:22:51We chat with him.
00:22:52He's there to support.
00:22:53Don't know if he's going to be on staff, and they were teammates long ago.
00:22:54I asked him, hey, do you remember what it was like preparing for those Titans teams
00:22:57when you were on staff?
00:22:58And he said, quote, we knew we had to be tough.
00:23:01We just had to be tough and fundamentally sound to go up against a team that was coached
00:23:05by him.
00:23:06Kind of the same thing you would say about Bill.
00:23:08And Troy Brown will say nice things to media about his players and coaches and how he's
00:23:13delivered.
00:23:14But look, you and I watched those teams, and the first time Mike Vrabel went up against
00:23:17Bobalicek, the Titans kicked their asses.
00:23:19He pantsed them.
00:23:20Yeah.
00:23:21And they won the wild card playoff game.
00:23:22So like, it's just a little cool hearing that from the inside.
00:23:26Yeah, that was good.
00:23:28And you mentioned earlier, and we'll put a bow on this portion of the pod there.
00:23:32One thing you liked about Vrabel, and I'm just going to, like I said, I'm going to stir
00:23:35the pot a tad, but I think it's worth talking about because you said afterwards he comes
00:23:40off there and he goes right to David Andrews and Joe Cardona, who were seated there to
00:23:47take in the press conference.
00:23:49I will say I was actually slightly surprised, and other people who attended there were the
00:23:54personnel guys, which was Gros and Wolfe and such.
00:23:58I was actually surprised there weren't more players there.
00:24:01And if you go back to Gerard Mayo's press conference, I remember at the very least,
00:24:05Juwan Bentley, Jonathan Jones, Josh Uche was there, even Mac Jones attending his own funeral,
00:24:10you know, was at that one walking around.
00:24:14But you thought there was a non-zero chance he might show up again, didn't you?
00:24:17I would have loved it.
00:24:19You might as well have put a Mac Jones uniform on Elliott.
00:24:24But it might be the same path there.
00:24:30You also had Devin McCourty, Rob Ninkovich, former players.
00:24:32I know you mentioned Troy Brown there.
00:24:34And so I was a little surprised there wasn't a bigger presence there.
00:24:38And I do wonder, this is the one thing about Gerard Mayo is there was a ding-dong, the
00:24:45witch is dead sort of vibe among the media because of so many things that we saw that
00:24:48seemed functionally that they just weren't working out, you know, I mean, bordering on
00:24:53incompetence or just kind of unpreparedness.
00:24:56He wasn't ready.
00:24:57It seemed evident.
00:24:58But throughout all of it, throughout all of these obvious missteps and fireable offenses
00:25:03that we were picking up on throughout the year, players still stuck by him pretty much
00:25:09to the end, all the way to the final press conference.
00:25:12And it's not just old vets.
00:25:14Demario Douglas, yeah, I'd be pretty bummed if he gets fired.
00:25:20All the way through Dietrich Weiss, you have some guys there who still supported him.
00:25:25And I do wonder if there is a faction of Patriots players, not to say they won't get
00:25:29over it, who might feel like he got done dirty.
00:25:32Yeah.
00:25:33And look, I talked to people in the organization who weren't even in the locker room and kind
00:25:36of felt that way.
00:25:37They felt Gerard, you know, worked well, communicated clearly, like all the things we would not
00:25:40say out here on the media and listening to him in the press conferences, where just the
00:25:44amazing fact that reporters who were doing this Wednesday and Friday, as we did with
00:25:49Bill Belichick, some small part of us were rooting for him to revert back to Bill in
00:25:54a way of just save yourself.
00:25:56This is so easy.
00:25:57Do it out of self-interest.
00:25:58So easy.
00:25:59And he got there a little bit too late.
00:26:00And I don't think he had a big part in his downfall.
00:26:02It was the football, first and foremost.
00:26:05But I think, John, that just speaks to the next time we go through this, the next time
00:26:08any Boston team goes through this, don't listen to the players on that, because you know who
00:26:13else listened to the players on that?
00:26:16Mark Davis out in Las Vegas, who kept another linebacker, who was a crappy head coach, Antonio
00:26:21Pierce.
00:26:22And what seemed like a coup at the time, when Josh McDaniels leaves, and Devontae Adams
00:26:25is happy, and Max Crosby, and they're all going, oh, hire this guy.
00:26:28Well then Pierce is out of a job because he stunk at it and probably wasn't ready for
00:26:30it.
00:26:31So I just filed that one away for good.
00:26:32I don't know if it's a commandment of sports.
00:26:35Players don't get to pick the head coaches, and there's no reason for that.
00:26:38And there's, I think some people kind of conflate liking the guy versus thinking that he's a
00:26:43good head coach.
00:26:44Again, most of the reasoning for keeping Mayo was, well, he's new and he deserves another
00:26:48shot.
00:26:49But it wasn't that he's doing such a good job right now that how could you not bring
00:26:53him back?
00:26:54It was, I like him, and I think he deserves another whack at it, which I always thought,
00:27:01I do think some people in the media, and some fans as well, might have placed a little bit
00:27:04too much stock on, well, he's got the support of the locker room.
00:27:08It doesn't really matter, and you're right, they're not always the best judges of whether
00:27:13or not something's going to work out.
00:27:15What did you not like from the Mike Vrabel press conference?
00:27:18I gave it an A, so I guess I can't say anything.
00:27:20Yeah, so I'll go back to the Ryan Cowden.
00:27:22I have questions, but I wouldn't say there's stuff I didn't like.
00:27:25I still have a lot of questions after he spoke, that's all.
00:27:28Well, this is your big question, which we'll revisit.
00:27:30Ryan Cowden, 25-year bet, NFL front offices, obviously overlap with Vrabel in Tennessee.
00:27:35He's going to come in, he's the number two, and there are these, okay, roster control
00:27:39is something that is going to be resolved on its own.
00:27:43And that's probably Vrabel's way of saying, as I threw out there possibly, but I'll date
00:27:47Elliott.
00:27:48We'll see how the next four months go.
00:27:49If this works out, great.
00:27:50We'll keep it number one.
00:27:51If not, my guy is going to be number two.
00:27:52But, John, are you familiar, because they said this in your old home on the airwaves
00:27:57last night on NBC, are you familiar with the cuckoo bird?
00:28:00Yeah.
00:28:01Yeah, I saw the reference.
00:28:03Tell me Ryan Cowden's not a cuckoo bird.
00:28:04I mean, a species that does not make its own nests, it goes in, kicks out the eggs and
00:28:10the baby birds, and then the mother of said baby birds who were left in that nest comes
00:28:14back and raises the cuckoo birds on its own, thinking that it's her own.
00:28:19There's a better term than baby birds.
00:28:21That to me just feels like what Ryan Cowden is right now.
00:28:22A cuckoo bird coming in to kick stuff out and then be the one who gets to live there
00:28:28because that seems to be the plan from the back door, which is not like so secretive.
00:28:32We're talking about it, but it's just not a great way to go about things.
00:28:35And maybe it was something Vrabel just had to agree to.
00:28:37The crafts were like, look, we really like Elliott.
00:28:39We want you to get to know him, learn from him.
00:28:41He's an asset.
00:28:42I do think as a scouting mind, he's an asset.
00:28:44Maybe not the top of a front office, but it just, it's a little backdoor.
00:28:49And I got to tell you on very, very limited feedback I've gotten from other people around
00:28:52the league, there's some, you know, mixed reviews on Cowden so far.
00:28:58And it's something I would go out and write right away, but we can talk about here on
00:29:01the pod because I need to talk to more people, understand why that is.
00:29:05But that's the initial feedback.
00:29:06That's the thing.
00:29:07It's almost like, you know, Yelp reviews, you know, like it's like, you know, you go
00:29:10so you've only been to two Thai restaurants.
00:29:12You think one of them is the best one you've ever had in your life, but you only have that
00:29:16experience.
00:29:17And so I don't know whether or not I trust your opinion on that because you know what
00:29:21you know, like people have their comfort zones.
00:29:23They're guys that they work with and it worked out.
00:29:26You have no idea if they're the best for the job, but you just know that the guy who's
00:29:30making the decisions in this case, Mike Vrabel feels good about it.
00:29:34But I have no idea whether or not you're bringing in somebody who's more qualified than the
00:29:40existing personnel department to make decisions.
00:29:42If he's going to select the right players and make the right choices and you give the,
00:29:48you know, give, you know, make, you know, give free agents or, you know, pick the right
00:29:52free agents and pay the right amount and sign good contracts.
00:29:55I have no idea.
00:29:56We have no idea if it'll work.
00:29:57All we know is Mike Vrabel likes him.
00:29:59Yeah.
00:30:00Yeah.
00:30:01That's it.
00:30:02And look, that's how most of this goes.
00:30:03And I tried to stress last week, like the N in NFL might as well stand for nepotism and
00:30:07it's not just Steve Belichick and Brian Belichick coming up the coaching ranks.
00:30:11Everybody does it.
00:30:12You go somewhere, you bring everybody you worked with before, all your friends, whether
00:30:15they're good at it or not, just because you like them.
00:30:17So as much as everyone talks about meritocracy, meritocracy, meritocracy, it's just not the
00:30:21other thing.
00:30:22And you, you hit on this earlier was this morning and we're able to talk at a WEI, and
00:30:26this is a personal thing.
00:30:27Some people might love to hear this, but what he had said was, I think we have the quote
00:30:31here.
00:30:32You know, he's talking about the connection between winning and certain statistics.
00:30:36Okay.
00:30:37And so he says, you don't have to throw it 50 times.
00:30:39You know, I think an interesting stat was quarterbacks that attempt more than 50 passes
00:30:43at five zero, a game have won 22% of their games other than Tom Brady.
00:30:48He's won like 70% that he's had to throw more than 45 times or something.
00:30:51So if you don't have Tom Brady, you probably shouldn't throw it 45 to 50 games saying basically
00:30:57throw it less and you'll win.
00:31:00And my answer would be, well, if you're winning, you're throwing it less and rushing more like
00:31:05he's, he's implying a causal relationship between run pass ratio.
00:31:10That's just not there.
00:31:11The lead leads to the ladder.
00:31:14Like that, that's how this goes.
00:31:15And even said four minute drill like that.
00:31:17When you get in those, you can kill the clock.
00:31:19That's when you win games.
00:31:20Well, the four minute drill starts with the lead that you're killing clock in the first
00:31:22place.
00:31:23That's what sends up the rushing attempts.
00:31:24It's not a magic number you have to get to, which for again, a guy who just came from
00:31:28a very analytically driven franchise, I'm like, Mike, like this is, I agree.
00:31:33It's good to run and have some semblance of a balance here and unpredictability, but
00:31:38running more, it's not this magic elixir to winning in the same way that passing more
00:31:43is not an avenue to losing.
00:31:46It's such specious reasoning because of exactly that.
00:31:50I mean, teams who throw a ton are trailing typically by a lot.
00:31:56I, I, you know, looked up some numbers here, almost 3,200 regular season games have been
00:32:01played since for Abel became a head coach.
00:32:04Um, and only 157 have featured 50 or more pass attempts.
00:32:09It's just not a thing that you do.
00:32:10Um, 49, just hang out on top of that.
00:32:15Almost all of the losses of those 50 attempts, uh, you know, a huge amount of them is more
00:32:19than 10 points, which shows you're way behind you're throwing cause you're behind and you're
00:32:24running to protect leads.
00:32:26So that's like gaslighting us saying, you know, and that, but that bugs me a little
00:32:30bit.
00:32:31Like you can't think we think that sound reasoning, right?
00:32:35Like, is this just, are you just kind of laying the foundation here for like, I had this guy
00:32:40named Derrick Henry and I ran the crap out of him and it worked out pretty well.
00:32:44And I think I'd like to kind of do that thing again because I think what, I think what it
00:32:47is is a manifestation of like the defensive head coach and Mike has a more worldly view
00:32:53of football.
00:32:54Again, work with the tight ends, work with the offensive lineman in Cleveland, uh, certainly
00:32:58spend a ton of time on special teams, has worked with different coaches and systems
00:33:01and philosophies.
00:33:02Okay.
00:33:03He's not defensive only, but when you come from that type of background, hell, even Belichick
00:33:07and the Manny cast last night, just dismissing the refs like, Oh, they're going to give it
00:33:10more points.
00:33:11It's all this and that the league is slanted against defense.
00:33:14You want to, you look at the game through that prism of just don't get in the way of
00:33:19my side of the ball.
00:33:20And that means running.
00:33:21It means killing clock.
00:33:23Typically being a little bit more conservative, even if the efficiency he's, he's looking
00:33:26for in the passing game is there.
00:33:29If you're willing to throw a little bit more as if you have to call this an extension of
00:33:33your running game with a lot more quick game.
00:33:35So like that, that I think is what it is.
00:33:36Like he is an old soul, only 49 years old, but the way he seems to view the game is still
00:33:41through a lens that doesn't feel like somebody who came through Cleveland.
00:33:44You could rightfully say, Hey Callie, like why is Cleveland this beacon of like football
00:33:48knowledge?
00:33:49I'd be like, okay, fair.
00:33:50They haven't won a ton of games, but I think we know by now the stuff that he just said
00:33:54is not entirely true.
00:33:56So that's the thing.
00:33:57And so again, I'll air my grievances on it.
00:33:59I was a Ben Johnson guy.
00:34:01So there's no reason to hide it.
00:34:03And I, you know, I talked about it here on the, you know, on CLNS media and I gave my
00:34:07reasons for why.
00:34:08And I think it's many of the reasons you would understand.
00:34:10I don't know if it's going to be a sore loser, John.
00:34:12That's all.
00:34:13So that's, that's what this is.
00:34:14So yeah, fine.
00:34:15I'm going to get my pound of flesh out of this thing.
00:34:18Look, and that's exactly why is rebel is a bit of a dinosaur, even though only 49, he's
00:34:23probably trending.
00:34:24Yeah.
00:34:2549 going on 59 or 69 in terms of his NFL kind of philosophy and the way that he looks at
00:34:29things.
00:34:30I am a little bit concerned.
00:34:31I actually, one thing I wish was asked at the press conference, um, and uh, you know,
00:34:34nobody got a chance to was, um, his experience with analytics in Cleveland, uh, as being
00:34:41a thing.
00:34:42And honestly, I, I found that a little curious.
00:34:43There was a piece, I believe in the athletic about kind of highlighting how he's evolved
00:34:48over the course of the year.
00:34:49And I just, I don't know.
00:34:50I don't know whether, I don't know whether that was just putting a shine on his image
00:34:55as kind of this dinosaur.
00:34:56He came free last year and people weren't necessarily knocking down his door.
00:34:59And some of the knocks on him were exactly that was a little bit old school, reliant
00:35:04on the run, not reliant enough on analytics.
00:35:06I don't know that he's going to completely change his stripe.
00:35:08Is it stripes or spots?
00:35:09I never know, but I'm not sure in a, in a year he's coming in here and being a totally
00:35:14different guy.
00:35:15Like I've reached this epiphany or revelation of like what I need to be as a coach.
00:35:18I think as you said, we saw it with Bill Belichick, you lean on things that are comfortable
00:35:22for you and that's just kind of what you know.
00:35:25And that's what you consider safe and right analytics or anything else be damned.
00:35:30The other thing was exactly that is you don't know offensive.
00:35:33You're only as good as your OC when you, when you're a defensive minded coach.
00:35:36So can you pick the right guy?
00:35:38Maybe.
00:35:39But what happens when you do pick the right guy?
00:35:40They leave.
00:35:41And that's why I liked the idea of an offensive minded coach because the system is here forever.
00:35:46It stays with them and you hire people who can execute your vision as opposed to let
00:35:50me bring somebody in here and hope that they can do cool things with Drake May.
00:35:54So all I'm, those were not answered for me there.
00:35:57And then I saw this quote about the running and I was like, what?
00:36:01You know, like I, it's not what I wanted to see and it's not how I, and, and, and there
00:36:06was a few other kernels there too about being aggressive, but not reckless.
00:36:10And that to me, that exact bite kind of said the same thing.
00:36:14Like we're not going to sling it around the yard and just have Drake going out there and
00:36:17scrambling and running RPOs and putting him in harm's way.
00:36:20We're going to be aggressive, but we're smart about it.
00:36:23And that's, like I said, laying, I feel like laying the groundwork for it's gonna not be
00:36:28quite as sexy as you might have hoped because that's not how I do things here.
00:36:32Yeah.
00:36:33And we'll, we'll get to the OC in a second.
00:36:34Cause it's a great point.
00:36:35And after the offensive coordinator, you're talking then about the quarterbacks coach
00:36:38and the offensive line coach, like those hires together might be just as important as, as
00:36:42the head guy, understanding, obviously they're connected.
00:36:45Not rushing to his defense, but I do think there are a couple of things worth noting
00:36:48about like his history being indicative of what he'll do next, at least offensively.
00:36:53Drake may sometime next year, it's going to be the best quarterback he ever worked with.
00:36:55Okay.
00:36:56Like when you're working with a Ryan Tannehill, Marcus Mariota, Malik Willis, you're going
00:37:00to keep them in a simplified conservative offense because you just can't put the team
00:37:03on their shoulders.
00:37:04That said the best year Ryan Tannehill had was actually pretty aggressive downfield offense.
00:37:11And in that wildcard game, when the Patriots lost and Derrick Henry goes for one 40 or
00:37:15whatever, a, of course you're going to design an offense around your best player who happened
00:37:19to be a running back, but B their emphasis was on limiting those deep shots.
00:37:23And Arthur Smith was the head coach.
00:37:24I do think it's in there.
00:37:26And what he's saying is like generally true.
00:37:29And there will be times to challenge him on this or ask him a little bit more about that
00:37:32philosophy.
00:37:33Maybe he changes his mind.
00:37:34And if it's Josh McDaniels, he can literally treat him as the head coach, the offense.
00:37:37Okay.
00:37:38And in a way that Josh has done before.
00:37:40So I think there's a lot to be determined at what the Patriots do.
00:37:42If you get T Higgins and you draft a dynamite rookie receiver, well, of course you're going
00:37:46to throw the ball.
00:37:47Yeah.
00:37:48I, I, but I, I think I could be wrong.
00:37:52I think, I think Tannehill only passed for like 70 yards in that game.
00:37:56Yeah.
00:37:57Cause I mean, it was, it was, I know that the excellent defense, which again speaks
00:38:02to like the quarterbacks.
00:38:03He had kind of stunk.
00:38:04So I'm curious what he does.
00:38:05If you give him new tools and weapons, how do you evolve if you do as a head coach?
00:38:09Like this again was not great.
00:38:10I'm just willing to put that down in pencil of our evolving, growing Mike Vrabel file
00:38:16versus, Oh, this is a commandment he believes in.
00:38:18If he's still doing that while Drake may has this Joe Burrow esque season, you're like,
00:38:23just let Drake cook.
00:38:24Then I think there's a time to really hammer him and get on him.
00:38:26But like, I agree with you.
00:38:27I didn't love hearing that.
00:38:28Yeah.
00:38:29I should point out to that exact comment that we just put out there that 45, 50 times a
00:38:35game.
00:38:36Joe Burrow, who you just mentioned, led the league in pass attempts this year, and I think
00:38:39threw it 36 times a game.
00:38:41So it's again, it's just, nobody's throwing 45 or 50 times.
00:38:45I don't know why you need to say that.
00:38:47You mentioned the OCO.
00:38:48Is there anything left over?
00:38:49You did not like here before we move on?
00:38:50No, I was just curious.
00:38:52Like things that we learned in the process that press conference, like Vrabel indicated,
00:38:57if not just kind of said, I could have come back to new England as an assistant under
00:39:00bill.
00:39:01Yeah.
00:39:02And I didn't want to do that.
00:39:03A, obviously the move paid off B that highlights the difference between him and Gerard and
00:39:08all the benefits of like, you can't come home until you leave.
00:39:10And in that process, you know, whether it was like life after college or in coaching,
00:39:14you gain all the experience, you come back, you're better for it was huge and something
00:39:17I don't think any of us knew.
00:39:19And then B speaking of bill, he's on Pat McAfee after the Vrabel press conference and just,
00:39:24just unending flowers.
00:39:26The man is just throwing it, Mike, and they have a real relationship and that hit rocky
00:39:29spots.
00:39:30And it just goes on and on and on in a way in the one minute clip that was more positive
00:39:36than everything you had said about drive mail, but for obvious reasons over the last year
00:39:40combined, this, this to me was a, this was a Gerard Mayo tweet.
00:39:45You know, this is a Gerard Mayo comment as much as it is.
00:39:48And honestly, I have built there's reasons behind it, but boy, he was pretty petty about
00:39:54this most of the year.
00:39:55I thought, you know, talking about our defense was pretty good last year, ignoring how many
00:39:59people were missing from it.
00:40:00And every chance he took to point out that it was not a professional organization being
00:40:04run there.
00:40:05I think he's gushing a little bit extra for you know in, you know, on, on Mike Vrabel's
00:40:11behalf doesn't mean he doesn't mean this stuff, but man, is he taking a victory lap right
00:40:15now over this?
00:40:16Because I think he wanted nothing more than to watch see Gerard Mayo fall on his face.
00:40:21And that is exactly what happened there.
00:40:23And I thought that was interesting.
00:40:27We did talk about other comments that Mike Vrabel made.
00:40:29We do want to get to those as well.
00:40:31And that includes one that he made the Tommy Curran, I believe was it on their podcast.
00:40:38So we are going to talk about that as well.
00:40:41We're also going to talk a little bit about the OC and potential candidates here.
00:40:47And one that's off the board already that was mentioned and kind of might be clearing
00:40:52the path for what we believe might be the obvious choice.
00:40:56But before we do that, here's Andrew telling you about one of our other terrific sponsors
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00:42:33Now let's talk about that other comment here.
00:42:35And again, I can't, I still can't wrap my mind fully around it here.
00:42:39And that was what he said to Tommy Curran, which was, and where is it here?
00:42:45I'll just start reading because I have it here.
00:42:47So here it is.
00:42:48Mike Rabel does, as a lot of head coaches do, I did this last year, main press conference,
00:42:53you do what's called a car wash.
00:42:54Just one-on-ones for four to five minutes at a piece with every TV station, big network,
00:42:59one right after the other.
00:43:00So he gets to his guy, Tommy, and Tom, smartly, asks about Elliot Wolfe and what's going on
00:43:04and what he knows about.
00:43:05And Mike says, in the process of making a comment about Elliot, quote, having talked
00:43:11to Elliot and getting to know him through the interview process, and then some over
00:43:14the weekend, there were some things that maybe didn't allow him to completely invest
00:43:19in personnel.
00:43:22So what is, again, it's what's invest mean?
00:43:25Like that, you know, let's, let's break down the sentence.
00:43:29What does he mean invest in personnel?
00:43:31There's no way he's talking about the crafts here, right?
00:43:33He's got to be talking about, I'm reading this as maybe it's more to do with the collaborative
00:43:38process that didn't allow him to stop it or, or, or, or that's the best I can get there.
00:43:43I highly doubt Brable's taking a shot at craft.
00:43:46Wouldn't give him money enough to spend, right?
00:43:49So two things on this.
00:43:50Number one, if you just want to blankly believe this is another piece of evidence that the
00:43:55crafts are too cheap, don't spend on the roster.
00:43:57And I know what the cash spending numbers are.
00:44:00I can't stop you.
00:44:02But if you want to think for a second and realize that on his first day on the job,
00:44:06that he would out his bosses like that voluntarily, you think Mike Rabel's that stupid?
00:44:14Number two, you would then out the guy that you're working with that just an hour earlier,
00:44:19you mentioned six times by name, uh, throw flowers at, and then out him in the process.
00:44:25So no invest.
00:44:27I don't believe in this instance relates to money because I don't think Mike Rabel's that
00:44:31stupid.
00:44:32And again, you don't, you don't have to take my word.
00:44:34I think my word's pretty good because I've worked a while to, to kind of build that up
00:44:36here in the market.
00:44:37But what I believe based on what I've been told and in looking back is what he was talking
00:44:42about was time.
00:44:44He couldn't invest as much of his time day to day in personnel.
00:44:46And here's an example.
00:44:48Last month, there were league meetings down in Dallas.
00:44:50Okay.
00:44:51Owners go down.
00:44:52GMs go down.
00:44:53Agents are walking to and from trying to get business done.
00:44:56They have league meetings aside from the ones that marched, everyone watches and are televised
00:44:59and I go visit.
00:45:00Elliot Wolf is not there.
00:45:02The Patriots sent macro for one of the biggest meetings weeks of the year, especially in
00:45:06season.
00:45:07Why?
00:45:08I don't know, but I know I had multiple people texting me going, Hey, why isn't Elliot down
00:45:12in Dallas?
00:45:14I don't know.
00:45:15I gotta get ready for this Chargers game, Bill's game, whatever it was.
00:45:19And to me, that said, he had to do more day to day dealing with a rookie head coach, rookie
00:45:24coordinators, young team and everything to coalesce because we already know how much
00:45:29he put into this coaching staff and brought it and tied it all together.
00:45:32Right?
00:45:33So if they're having issues, you're not going to the guy who'd only been in coaching for
00:45:36five years.
00:45:37Even if that's Gerard Mayo's job, I bet, and we know this for a fact, Gerard spoke to him
00:45:41every single day.
00:45:42And I would bet it wasn't just about rosters and transactions.
00:45:45It was probably maybe how to do the job or things other than just scouting.
00:45:51And that's what Mike's saying here.
00:45:52He couldn't invest fully in just the personnel department and the scouting and look at that.
00:45:57That's just, that's just my sense.
00:46:00And looking at that.
00:46:01Yeah.
00:46:02And again, if whether it's that or not, it's clearly not the first thing, which is what
00:46:07I think everyone took and ran with that.
00:46:09It was about the crafts.
00:46:13There's no, as you said, there's just no way he's doing that on day one.
00:46:17But yeah, wasn't able to do whatever was necessary to procure the necessary talent to put a better
00:46:23product on the field.
00:46:26Makes a lot more sense.
00:46:28You want to go to the OC thing?
00:46:30Cause we could also talk about there's another comment we can talk about.
00:46:36So we do have some news in terms of that is that Tommy Reese, who was a name that was
00:46:42mentioned Cleveland ties with variables last year in the Browns organization was promoted
00:46:48to offensive coordinator, which means he can't be interviewed for the same position.
00:46:53And that was honestly the only hot, like name that had really gained any traction.
00:47:01It feels like that wasn't Josh McDaniels.
00:47:04So Vrabel again, confirmed, I think again, in one of his many appearances recently might
00:47:10have been today or one of those interviews yesterday, Josh is being considered.
00:47:16So we know that he's in the mix.
00:47:19We know there's familiarity and we know that there's not a clear leading candidate here.
00:47:23Is this over?
00:47:24Are we done?
00:47:25Not done.
00:47:26No, not done.
00:47:27But if you wanted to be, yeah, because we need more content or, I mean, is there, is
00:47:34I just think Mike Vrabel is a good enough coach where if he wanted to pull an offensive
00:47:38coordinator, let's say that he respected and knew and just called them and say, Hey, do
00:47:41you want to come work here or an offensive assistant, whoever that might be, that person
00:47:45would pick up the phone and think about it for a minute.
00:47:47So if he has that kind of pull, and I believe he does, he's going to use that if he's any
00:47:50kind of smart, because Josh McDaniels, as much as I would call him the odds on favorite
00:47:54right now to get that job, it was supposedly a long list.
00:47:57It might just be lip service because Mike knows he's got to interview two external minority
00:48:01and or female candidates for a coordinator job.
00:48:04And that's the process the Patriots are going to go through one way or another, that it
00:48:08behooves him to go through that interview process and do his homework.
00:48:11And Josh has not coached in the NFL, obviously, since middle of 2023 season.
00:48:15But if you need someone who's had experience developing quarterbacks, running an offense
00:48:19on his own, and also being in that type of environment, let's just call it a Belichick
00:48:23style system.
00:48:24Even if obviously it's Mike Vrabel's program, Josh McDaniels checks all of those boxes and
00:48:28say whatever the hell you want about his head coaching tenure, which was a disaster
00:48:32in Denver.
00:48:33And then again, it makes complete screw up.
00:48:35I don't think anyone could fairly call him an average to below average offensive coordinator,
00:48:41like through the Mac Jones experience, getting the most out of that Cam Newton lead offense.
00:48:45You want to go all the way back to Matt Castle in 2008.
00:48:47Like if that's the job, I think Josh McDaniels is qualified in this instance where you got
00:48:51a second year quarterback future of the franchise.
00:48:54I trust him.
00:48:55And the other, the other names I'm thinking of, John, are really just like Tim Kelly,
00:48:58who was with him in Tennessee.
00:48:59And before that in Houston, Todd Downing, who we fired before his last season as a head
00:49:03coach of the Titans and is now with Jets.
00:49:05And like, that's it.
00:49:06Cause timing Reese is 32.
00:49:07And even, I don't know, as good as he is and respected and all that, that felt more to
00:49:11me like Kevin Stefanski wanted to take back control of his offense and not have a 32 year
00:49:16old be the CEO of the offense.
00:49:17Cause in Cleveland, that's Kevin Stefanski in here would have been timing Reese.
00:49:20I don't know if a guy that young, even if he's been a quarterback and coach quarterbacks
00:49:25and now coach side ends is ready for that.
00:49:28He's only coached two seasons in the NFL, but that's the new Browns offensive coordinator.
00:49:31Well, you mentioned you going through the Rooney rule process.
00:49:34Is it possible that they've already done this?
00:49:36And is it possible that the two candidates that they brought in to interview for head
00:49:40coach were really more kind of advanced vetting for Mike variable staff?
00:49:44And that could be Pat Hamilton and Byron left, which, because again, both have some OC experience
00:49:51in the past, even though they haven't worked in the NFL recently.
00:49:54But I do wonder whether those were names that might have been, uh, not double as much,
00:50:01but you've already talked to them and you might, you might've talked to them for a reason
00:50:04with, for fact finding.
00:50:05So I wonder if they're on the table.
00:50:07So two, two reasons they might do that anyway.
00:50:09And I'm not taking them off the table cause I Byron left, which is get a good resume too.
00:50:13Now you need some, some overlap, some connection with the staff and that he's only really been
00:50:17under Bruce Arians in Arizona, the Tampa Bay and never worked for anybody else.
00:50:21Number one would be, okay, you haven't coached the NFL since 2022 let's at least get your
00:50:25name back out there.
00:50:26And in the new cycle, I think it's a weak argument, but that could be part of the reason.
00:50:29The more convincing persuasive reason to me, number two would be a favor to the agent.
00:50:35Okay.
00:50:36Hey, like Mike rebels represented by so-and-so let's say theoretically that guy represents
00:50:40Pat Hamilton and or Byron left, which it's like, all right, you know, we'll do the Dane
00:50:45time that you want.
00:50:46Michael come in, but first you got to get my other guys in interview.
00:50:49Sure.
00:50:50Oh, and by the way, it'll help you with the Rudy rule.
00:50:52Not a problem.
00:50:53Like that's been done before.
00:50:54I know with other franchises and other head coaches and sometimes in new England as a
00:50:58way to kind of bring them along.
00:51:00And I would bet that's true probably for one of two of them not reporting, but that's kind
00:51:05of the behind the scenes stuff and negotiation to kind of get that process where everybody
00:51:08feeds and eats a little bit.
00:51:10Yeah.
00:51:11Any other buzz in terms of not just OC, but filling out the offensive staff, we'll, we'll
00:51:15hit defense quickly right after this, but any other offensive assistance you think might
00:51:20be either tab to come in and talk about the offensive coordinator position, or who might
00:51:25be able to just come in and fill some other roles and does anybody on the offensive side
00:51:29of the ball with the Patriots stay?
00:51:31Yeah.
00:51:32So I, I don't have, again, these are nuggets like things that, you know, you continue to
00:51:36chase down, but here are enough from good sources that we can talk about here.
00:51:40Jason hoteling was Mike rebels, offensive line coach is last year or two in Tennessee
00:51:45before promoting him for being a low level assistant with the Titans.
00:51:49He called hotelings interview.
00:51:50One of the best he's ever done.
00:51:51Okay.
00:51:52So that guy, as I've heard, could be in the mix for the offensive line job internally.
00:51:58Mike Pellegrino cornerbacks coach.
00:51:59I think he's got as good of a resume right now as anyone on that staff.
00:52:02You go to his first year, Stefan Gilmore wins defensive player of the year.
00:52:06No, that was not my Pellegrino painting a masterpiece with a 24 Jersey on, but you look
00:52:10at JC Jackson, his young player, Alex Austin, obviously Christian Gonzalez.
00:52:14I think Mike Pellegrino is a good coach.
00:52:16Brian Pelichek, obviously connection there might stick around who knows, but Tyler Hughes
00:52:21is someone that fable did overlap with at Ohio state way, way, way, way back then.
00:52:26And we know probably not equipped to be a receiver's coach, but if you need a low level
00:52:29assistant, which he was in new England from 21 to 23 or 20 to 22, that's a guy who I think
00:52:36also could stick around.
00:52:37You know, you, you talked about, I mean, we were wondering what Elliot Wolf take a subordinate
00:52:43position after, you know, getting that, you know, first taste of sugar there at the top,
00:52:47you know, as the, as the, as the big dog.
00:52:49I also wonder whether Alex van Pelt, there's a, there, there's a world in which he remains
00:52:57in some capacity.
00:52:59He's already been in a place where I'm not really the offensive coordinator, so fancy
00:53:04is doing all of this stuff.
00:53:05I'm just kind of a, his ballot you know, could he say at this point in my career, I kind
00:53:09of liked hanging out with Drake and if they'll have me back, sure.
00:53:12I'll hang out.
00:53:13I'll be the quarterback's coach.
00:53:14I'll do that because if there's one thing you could point to, yeah, maybe it wasn't
00:53:17the most creative, innovative play caller in the world, but the one thing that wasn't
00:53:20a total disaster last year was the development to Drake may and his handling of it.
00:53:25So I do wonder, is there a world in which you can, yeah, let's, let's watch, why don't
00:53:30you hang around?
00:53:32I don't think so because I think if Josh McDaniels is hired again, we're going to, he's the quarterback's
00:53:38coach.
00:53:39And I'll also say this because it's not as simple as like, oh, well, you know, McDaniels
00:53:43could be the offensive coordinator and Alex Van Pelt could be the quarterback's coach.
00:53:45Two brains are better than one.
00:53:47The drills and philosophies that underpin how they go about their business are different.
00:53:54Like one of the first drills, all the quarterbacks were doing in a very like clear, easy example
00:53:59was throwing into nets, like a big net with three different holes in it and guys warm
00:54:04up that way.
00:54:05And they're doing footwork drills that Josh never, ever, ever ran.
00:54:08As far as I know, covering the team dating back to 2018, never saw otherwise.
00:54:11So there's stuff that's more West coast.
00:54:13They'd have to mesh that, talk about it, agree.
00:54:15And Josh might just go, if you give me the job, I'll give you a couple of assistants
00:54:18who can come with me.
00:54:19And Mike's like, perfect, but that's, that's, it's just a little difficult, difficult to
00:54:23mesh those though.
00:54:24I, you know, we'll see because Alex Van Pelt's moved around a lot.
00:54:28It'll depend on his options.
00:54:29If this is the best option and they want to make it work, I would certainly try.
00:54:32Sure.
00:54:33Before we, anything more on the coaches, cause I do want to wrap it when we get to one of
00:54:37those comments and kind of a, what does it mean?
00:54:41Sort of a comment that was put out there by a former Patriot, Teddy Bruschi.
00:54:46I can jump on that now, unless you had anything else in the coaching search.
00:54:49No, I just say, Mike, I mean, we're going to find a way to like constantly refer to
00:54:54him.
00:54:55It's not, it's never going to be coached, but Mike or Bray, just settle on one for now.
00:54:57He's Mike.
00:54:58And Mike was saying, you know, there's no timeline on this.
00:55:01And I think a, that's smart messaging, managing expectations, but the fact that he is the
00:55:06first head coach hired and most teams are going to be waiting until next week to do
00:55:10in-person interviews.
00:55:12I think he's wisely using his time here and it could be another two weeks before the Patriots
00:55:17do hire a coordinator.
00:55:18Who is it?
00:55:19I don't know, but I believe him as they continue to build out the staff, they contacted people
00:55:24today this afternoon was the first time that they started.
00:55:28So that's that's where we're at and we'll see where they go.
00:55:31And you're not hearing, I mean, you're not hearing Josh McDaniels tied to anyone else
00:55:36at this point.
00:55:37So again, if you think that that's he lives here, I think I know if that's a safety net
00:55:42there where, you know, that's in the bag.
00:55:44So you'll do your search, you'll do your talks.
00:55:46But if you kind of know my lead guys already here, if he, if he really is, it, it, it takes
00:55:50a lot of the pressure off there.
00:55:52And again, for able being a defensive minded sort of guy, I think there's less pressure
00:55:56on the defensive coordinator and the defensive staff there.
00:56:00Then there is on the offensive side that you really want to make sure that you smash that
00:56:04one.
00:56:05Now we're talking about what does it mean?
00:56:06What did, what did he mean when he, when he, when he took that shot at the, you know, when
00:56:10he mentioned Elliot Wolf didn't have you know, didn't invest didn't get a chance to invest.
00:56:16What does this mean?
00:56:17This is something that Teddy Brewski had said here on the, I assume on ESPN, you know, on
00:56:22NFL countdown there's going to be change.
00:56:26There's some people upstairs in the organization that want to be heard.
00:56:29And sometimes they're going to have to take a bite of humble pie and understand your opinion
00:56:34doesn't matter on this one because there are people in the building that know more.
00:56:38Is this a Jonathan Kraft tweet or Jonathan Kraft comment?
00:56:41Who are we talking about here?
00:56:43It could be Jonathan.
00:56:45The first person I thought of without any reporting on this, I just love that Teddy
00:56:49Brewski is coming out firing.
00:56:50I feel like we haven't had this Teddy Brewski in so long.
00:56:52He's just got like the rocket launcher under one arm and he's just pulling and firing and
00:56:56goes and goes and goes is Robin Glazer.
00:56:59And Robin kept the low profile at the press conference on Monday.
00:57:03She is someone who was named as soon as Gerard was hired, senior advisor to the head coach
00:57:07and executive this and that.
00:57:08She handled some contracts up.
00:57:10She's not scouting, but she's also someone that was in charge and allowed to you know,
00:57:15paint and determine slogans that went on the walls of the facility, the players and coaches
00:57:19walk by every single day.
00:57:21And if you're Mike Bramble or, you know, we'll go to the extreme, Bill Belichick pitched
00:57:26on, hey, this woman who's got a lot of business background and likes football and is close
00:57:30to the Krafts wants to come in and we're going to put a little star next to all these big
00:57:33slogans and this is what we're about now.
00:57:35You're like, get the hell out of here and then go even further away from me.
00:57:40So that's how I read that, you know, because Jonathan Kraft, again, say what you will about
00:57:44it.
00:57:45I'm not telling you how to feel about it.
00:57:46He's going to own the team next, right?
00:57:48Like he is the team president.
00:57:50So that person, whether he's earned the right or not, does have a say in an ability to dictate
00:57:56how business goes.
00:57:57Rob McGlazer though, is a new person in our lives, relatively speaking last year.
00:58:00Yeah, we know how last year went.
00:58:02Well, that's the thing is, yeah, everyone's got to come in and wearing 15 pieces of flair,
00:58:06you know, in order to work here.
00:58:08So yeah, I mean, that stuff's not going to, not going to fly and it is interesting how
00:58:11much closer to Belichick Bramble is going to be in that kind of, yes, I'm doing this
00:58:17sort of thing.
00:58:18And I mean, Belichick famously didn't even want Robert walking into his office, let alone
00:58:22Jonathan or someone like Robin Glazer.
00:58:24And again, you know, some of the reporting last year was a lot of people didn't love
00:58:29the process of interviews and how they went and that it wasn't just Mayo in there.
00:58:34It was the Jonathan and Robin who's on the phone and they're talking to people and like
00:58:40any one of those people gets within a mile of any interviews with any incoming personnel
00:58:45here.
00:58:46It's not going to be like, cause they know that one year, one year where they're like,
00:58:49Oh good.
00:58:50Bill's gone.
00:58:51We can do this stuff.
00:58:52Now let's, let's put our fingerprints and stamp on the organization.
00:58:55It's like, Nope, notably not included in this year's head coaching search.
00:59:01Robert Jonathan, Elliot Wolf, Alonzo Highsmith.
00:59:04And that's it.
00:59:05And granted they knew where this was going to go all along.
00:59:08It was Mike Fable or bust.
00:59:09And that was, it was, and they were confident they were going to land him.
00:59:12But Robin was involved last year.
00:59:14Coordinators too.
00:59:15Not this year whatsoever.
00:59:16Yeah.
00:59:17So it'll be different.
00:59:18It'll be when it's funny, it'll be different, but it'll be more of the same.
00:59:22Just not what we had last year.
00:59:24A bit of a return to sanity and normalcy.
00:59:28But as we said, as variables kind of towing that line in between, he'll be nice to you,
00:59:31but he's still not going to tell you anything.
00:59:33And he's going to be nice.
00:59:34There are good clips and tendency to me.
00:59:37Oh my God.
00:59:38Never what this was about, by the way.
00:59:39I know you're never going to convince people about that, but like, if you thought I was
00:59:42truly and not me specifically, but certain media members cheerleading for Gerard, I want
00:59:46to bill out.
00:59:47So he would be nicer to us.
00:59:48Like, Hey, I've got much bigger problems in my life's B. I think all of us were fairly
00:59:53criticizing him, not crushing Gerard by the end of the season.
00:59:55So when variable pulls a Belichick at the podium, which he will, I'm not going to take
01:00:00it personally.
01:00:01My colleagues are going to take it personally.
01:00:02And if they do, I'll let you be the judge and read their work, but like that's coming
01:00:06and I know it.
01:00:07And I think they do too.
01:00:08I'm dating myself, but I covered those Patriots teams, you know, all the way back to, you
01:00:13know, 2000, 2001 Belichick's first year.
01:00:14And when variable here as a player, he, he, he, he smacked some people around in his locker
01:00:18too, when he didn't like the line of questioning.
01:00:20So that's, that's the kind of, it's kind of personality he has.
01:00:23It's not just the Tennessee clips I've been in front of him.
01:00:26I'm like, I hope this guy doesn't make me feel bad.
01:00:28So yeah, that's a little of that's coming.
01:00:30It's your show, Andrew, thank you for having me on it, but I'll let you close it out and
01:00:33take everybody home.
01:00:34Yeah.
01:00:35I don't want to call you a riding cow and cuckoo bird, John, but you've done an excellent
01:00:38job here, steering the ship and kind of weaseling your way in.
01:00:41Look, we, we are going to have more guests here on the show.
01:00:44John and I actually going to talk about direction for the show.
01:00:46This off season.
01:00:47We'll have one more episode this week.
01:00:48There's a lot going on.
01:00:49It will simmer coordinator search is going to be a big part of this, but we're also going
01:00:53to go still a little bit more behind the scenes and I think it has some more players coming
01:00:55up.
01:00:56So we'll keep you posted.
01:00:57Thanks for hanging out.
01:00:58And as always YouTube, Apple, Spotify, rate, review, if you can, all the comments help
01:01:02algorithm boost everything.
01:01:03If you like what we're doing, support the people that support us, game time prospects,
01:01:07all of it.
01:01:08And of course, let us know what you think in all those places I just listed.
01:01:11We'll see you next time.
01:01:12Bye.
01:01:13Bye.
01:01:14Bye.