Paige Jennings interview / Podcast

Podcast Vibe

4 months ago

Transcript

00:00:00Hello, everybody. Welcome back. Today I have the beautiful, the gorgeous, the redhead

00:00:29redemption, Paige Jennings. The artist formerly known as Veronica Vane. Yeah, you have to

00:00:38forgive me. I was telling her beforehand if I call her Veronica during the podcast because

00:00:41whenever I'm introduced to somebody as like a certain name, that's the name that I call

00:00:46them like forever. It's hard for me to switch. But I will try to remember to call you Paige

00:00:52because I know you really are Paige now. You've left the Veronica Vane behind. You are no

00:00:57longer that woman. Yeah. When I started the YouTube channel, I was like, man, it'd be

00:01:00better if I just use my name probably, you know, cause like I had, there was already

00:01:03videos of me on YouTube with that name that could have used like the suggested algorithms

00:01:07or whatever. But I was like, yeah, nope. I'm just going to be Paige. You're going to build

00:01:10it from scratch, whole new brand, whole new me. I don't even have tits anymore. I'm a

00:01:14born again fucking virgin. So tell, um, for those who may not know, can you tell them

00:01:22like kind of how your whole story began? Oh geez. You know, it's actually really funny.

00:01:28It was actually way more of an accident. And then I got touted like I was some like marketing

00:01:32genius or something that was like stick with the marketing genius. Yeah, I know. Right.

00:01:36I'm like, yeah, that's right. That's not what happened. Um, it was so funny. I was, I was

00:01:40working at wall street and I was, I was already had a job on the marketing floor of Lazard

00:01:44asset management. But the problem was like, I was just, I've been stripper for four years.

00:01:48Like I've been schmoozing rich guys for years. Like that's what they basically wanted me

00:01:52to do on wall street, which is more of that. And I was like, I have like more interest.

00:01:56I want to be more analytical. I want to be more creative. I want to, I want to do business

00:01:59strategy and all that kind of stuff. And the thing is, is in that world, it's like if you

00:02:03didn't go to Princeton and your uncle isn't like the VP at JP Morgan, it's very difficult

00:02:09to get those kinds of jobs. Really? Yeah. If you're a cute girl who's like charismatic,

00:02:13you can totally get sales and trading and marketing jobs. But, and that's what was coming

00:02:16my way. That's like not what I wanted to do. I also don't like bureaucracy and like red

00:02:20tape and all that kind of stuff. So I just wasn't all about the world even though I had

00:02:24the finance degree and I, I liked doing like mentally stimulating stuff. So I was like,

00:02:30I think I'm more entrepreneurial. I want to create value. I want to run my own thing.

00:02:33I don't want to, I don't want to be told what to do, like whatever I have. I have problems

00:02:37with authority. I'm not gonna, I just do. That's just, I'm sorry guys. Like maybe that's

00:02:41just who I am. I don't know. And so I was like, well, what do I want to do? Like what's

00:02:46something I can be passionate about that I could like start something in and go with

00:02:49that? And I was like, well, I like video games and I like sex. So maybe I should do

00:02:55something in one of those. And I started looking into those industries and video games was

00:03:00like, I don't have, I don't know how to make video games or anything. Like I didn't see

00:03:03how I would add much value. But when I saw the porn industry, I was like, oh shit, like

00:03:08that people make actual money in that industry. And that's like all sex. And I, I'm willing

00:03:12to bet they don't have too many Princeton grads trying to go in and work for it. So

00:03:16maybe I could like carve out a cool thing for myself. So the whole Wall Street porn

00:03:20star thing, the whole thing actually just started because I was trying to find a job

00:03:24in porn as like a porn analyst, like some kind of person working behind the scenes in

00:03:28the business strategy of porn. Oh, you weren't even looking to become a porn star. I didn't

00:03:31even want to be a fucking porn star. Really? Yeah. I mean, I was doing like some fucked

00:03:36up sex shit on my own, like explorative, but I didn't have a need. I'd stripped for four

00:03:41years. Like I got that out of my system, like the fun, like, oh, everybody wants to fuck

00:03:45me thing. Like that was cool when I was 19. But when I was like graduated college, working

00:03:49on Wall Street, I was like, eh, but what happened was there was nowhere to find these types

00:03:53of jobs. Like I looked on the mind geek site, all they were hiring was like engineers and

00:03:57stuff. I couldn't find stuff that fit my skillset. So I stumbled across the sex factor show and

00:04:04they were like looking for amateurs who never done porn before. And I have a very out of

00:04:08the box brain. So I was like, oh, well, I just somehow got in contact with the people

00:04:11running this. Obviously they know porn like stuff and they can tell me like, oh, maybe

00:04:16you should email these people or you should try to do this. Oh, I know what you're talking

00:04:18about. There's totally a thing you could, whatever. And I was just actually trying to

00:04:22break in at some level to like learn about it, to know where the jobs were. And I didn't

00:04:26actually intend to necessarily have sex on camera. Cause like the whole point of the

00:04:30show was like, you didn't have to really, it was just explorative. So I was like, I

00:04:35don't have to entertain. Oh, it was terrible. Oh my God. I called it the shit back. Oh God.

00:04:40Cause I did like one shoot for them and it was so disorganized.

00:04:44I remember that you were there. That's the first time I met you. We're going to talk

00:04:48to that in a second. But, um, but that happened. And then they were like, oh, well, if you want

00:04:52to get on the show, which at this point I'm like, maybe I would do porn, but just maybe

00:04:56I was still more interested in the business side. Um, cause I, once I researched it, I

00:05:01was like, oh, you don't actually really generally make that much money, you know? And they didn't

00:05:05have only fans and all this stuff, but this is 2015. Um, so it just didn't even seem that

00:05:10like interesting from like a standpoint of making a lot of money, you know? Cause it's

00:05:15like Jenna Jameson days are over. I can tell that. Um, but then, uh, then they're like,

00:05:19well, to get on the show, at least so you can come to AVN and then you could meet people

00:05:23and whatever, um, post these pictures on Twitter and we'll, uh, we'll retweet and whatever.

00:05:28So I posted the picture that posted on Twitter was like, I had like a totally different name.

00:05:32It wasn't even Veronica Vane. It was Skylar Page. And I had like 40 followers.

00:05:36Yeah. I think I kind of remember that name. Yeah. I should have been Skylar Page. That's

00:05:40a way better name. Um, cause my mom almost named me Skylar over page. So I was like,

00:05:44I'm Skylar Page. That would have been a way better name.

00:05:46Then it incorporates your real name. That makes sense.

00:05:48Yeah. Um, but it was like, I didn't understand Twitter at the time. I didn't understand things

00:05:52that went viral. I did not know that whole world. So I was like, I'm putting these shitty

00:05:55little pictures on, on Twitter. Like they don't even really look like me or they're far away.

00:05:59They're low quality, whatever. No one's going to care. Well, I didn't know that you can,

00:06:03when you upload pictures over company wifi, they can fucking see that shit.

00:06:09I didn't know that either. But then again, I've only ever worked in porn. So what do I know?

00:06:13Fucking Lazard like saw the tech guys or whatever. Like, Oh, this chick is taking

00:06:18half naked pictures in the bathroom at work on work hours, you know, and they send it to the

00:06:22HR people. So I post the pictures like Monday, Tuesday. And then by Friday that my boss's boss

00:06:28is calling me with the HR lady. Like, so you've been posting these pictures on Twitter. That's

00:06:32definitely not, you know, company policy. I think you understand. It was like a very funny conversation.

00:06:37Okay. And, um, I was saying I wanted a porn career. Like the whole time I was like, I want

00:06:41to leave wall street for a porn career. I never said I wanted to do a porn star. I was like trying

00:06:45to be, have a porn career literally in my bio. So they were like, we wish you luck. Ha ha ha.

00:06:50When he was firing me and I was like, but he wasn't really firing me. Cause I already quit

00:06:53a week before I was literally in my two weeks when they quote unquote fired me.

00:06:57So it was like questionable. I didn't really get fired. I already quit. I didn't even want,

00:07:01I was just there as I had to be. I was finishing up. You got to give your two weeks. Yeah. And so

00:07:05that happened. And what happened was of course, everyone at Lazard found out of course. And so

00:07:10there was a guy I'd worked with on the marketing floor. He called another guy at bro bible.com,

00:07:16who was his buddy. And he's like, Oh yeah, this chick just gets hilarious. You just got fired.

00:07:20She's like getting naked in the bathroom this whole time, like on at the bank, like blah, blah,

00:07:25blah. As that's happening, literally this is how it happened. The editor of bro Bible's like

00:07:29walking by here's this phone conversation. Here's Wall Street intern naked investment bank. And he

00:07:34was like, who is this chick? So that same day that I get fired, I get tweeted at by bro Bible,

00:07:39like that's spreading like wildfire. Like this, like I had, I had nothing to do with how any of

00:07:44this worked out. And he's like, Oh, you should like, you know, there's the whole Mia Khalifa

00:07:48thing. I think you could be the next thing like that. And I was like, in my head, I'm like, Oh,

00:07:51I definitely need to break into porn now. Cause I kind of got fired. Yeah. I'm not necessarily

00:07:59perform, but I was like, I definitely need to push this. So he, so he answered, so he sent me

00:08:03these questions and I answered them and I came up with Veronica vein and I took some, I found some

00:08:07dude on Tinder and he came over and he took those pictures of me that went viral at my apartment

00:08:11against my like white wall. It was like a shoe box, but like those were those pictures. And I

00:08:16just literally that day I was like, I need some better pictures. So I found a dude from Tinder to

00:08:19come do it, which is so funny. Cause down the line, those pictures got really valuable and

00:08:24everybody was trying to buy them from this kid. He was just this Tinder fucking hobbyist photographer.

00:08:31Anyway. So, so they posted an article. I have no idea that anybody would ever be able to find

00:08:36out my real name, my anything. I didn't think, cause I didn't tell, and I didn't tell any of

00:08:40that. I just said, I'm Veronica vein. Here's the pictures, bro Bible was super cool about it. Yeah.

00:08:44We don't have to post it. Cool. So they send all that. Of course I'm freaking out on a weekend

00:08:48cause I got fired. Cause it's going to be a lot harder if I did want to stay on in

00:08:51Washington. I don't have that recommendation anymore. Right. Um, so pulling your resume

00:08:56on Tuesday, the bro Bible article comes out and I talked about being in UF and stuff. And bro,

00:09:00I was very like college easy and crowd. So instantly I get like three or 4,000 Twitter

00:09:04followers from after the article. So in my head, I'm like, that's, that's all right.

00:09:07That's not a big deal. Right? Like, okay, I'll probably be able to break in now. That's better

00:09:11than the other sex factor stuff is doing. So at least I'll be able to break in and figure out my

00:09:15life and whatever. I'll own it. Cool. I wake up the next morning on Wednesday. So I posted the

00:09:21first picture on Monday. Okay. All right. Friday I'm fired. Tuesday the bro Bible article comes

00:09:26out. I wake up Wednesday thinking, Oh, I wonder what happens if I put Veronica vein into Google.

00:09:31I wonder if the article will even come up. Cause I didn't know bro Bible was even a big thing. I

00:09:34didn't know anything about traffic and millions of hits. Like I didn't know how to look any of

00:09:38that up. I didn't, I never heard of them. I thought some bullshit little backwards fucking

00:09:41easy. And then nobody cared about like, obviously because they're contacting me. Right. Why would

00:09:45they, why would it matter? It's not real media. And I didn't think anything of it. So I was just

00:09:53wondering if like the Google, it would come up on Google and like, I thought it'd be like the

00:09:5610th result or something like that. It's like 11am on Wednesday. I Googled my, my name.

00:10:01It's fucking everywhere. It's like business insider, New York posts, New York daily news,

00:10:05like any, all the other like gossipy kind of shitty stuff. It's literally like,

00:10:09like pages and pages of all about me and my pictures everywhere. Page Jennings,

00:10:13Lazard Asset Management, Fordham, University of Florida, like my whole fucking life all

00:10:18overnight. Like I never asked for that. You know, and that's what I'm saying is like,

00:10:22when people complain about that, it's like, I signed up for that. It's my fault. I put my face

00:10:26out there associated with this, like whatever. I wasn't mad about that, but I was like very

00:10:30caught off guard and like very scared. Um, it's crazy. The internet and how just word travels

00:10:35so fast. Yeah, that's, that's all. That's, that's it. I was, then I went viral and that's,

00:10:40everybody came to me kind of, they called me. And part of that is like, obviously they think

00:10:44these media scandal chicks have like a head on, like a, like a big head or something about it.

00:10:49Like I didn't, I just was, I was just, I just wanted to like analyze shit. Like I just wanted

00:10:54to make a porn company and here I was. And obviously when that happened, I'm like Wall

00:10:59Street porn star everywhere. Fucking the CEO of JP Morgan's daughter was a journalist at

00:11:04CBS at the time. She's like taking me out to dinner to try to get me on CBS inside edition.

00:11:10I went to JP Morgan super day. They wouldn't hire me next two weeks later or whatever months later

00:11:15after I'd done the super day, fucking the daughter of the CEO is like taking me to dinner. It's so

00:11:20crazy. So they're calling you Veronica Vane, porn star, Wall Street, all this. Had you even done a

00:11:25scene yet? So you weren't even technically a porn star yet. People would like talk shit and be like,

00:11:30Oh, she's like touting herself. She's already a porn star. She hasn't done shit. I'm like,

00:11:33I didn't do any of that. I didn't ask for any of this. Like, wow. Okay. So

00:11:40how, when and how did you shoot your first scene? Yeah. Um, at that point, literally that week that

00:11:45all this articles came out, like my inbox, like my emails were just flooded with inquiries and,

00:11:50um, porn started tweeting at me, bang bros. Actually my biggest regret is not doing a

00:11:54scene with Mia Khalifa. Cause she was tweeting at me like do a scene with Mia Khalifa for bang bros.

00:11:58That would have been like, I probably should have done that. Cause she was FSU. I was UF.

00:12:01And like, she was like a media scandal. I was a media scandal that really would have solidified

00:12:06things from a marketing perspective. But, um, like wicked had called me, um, browsers and stuff,

00:12:13all those kinds of places were calling me. So at this point, at that point it was pretty much like

00:12:16just people were sending me offers for money. Um, and I obviously wanted money, but more than that,

00:12:21I wanted to like capitalize on the marketing thing that was happening and I wanted to brand.

00:12:27Yeah. I don't think I, I did evil angels. Great. And they had a thing with, but I didn't do enough

00:12:31with evil angel. They also offered me something more than I probably should have done. I was so

00:12:35naive. I had no idea what I was doing. I was second guessing everything. I didn't have anyone

00:12:38looking out for me. Um, and that, as a result of that, I was asking lots of questions and as,

00:12:43and when you ask lots of questions, you can be seen as like undermining people,

00:12:46you know, cause I was just trying to learn and like not, I don't know. Um, and what happened

00:12:53was Ashley Madison reached out to me, um, with Manuel, Farrah and Katie Cross. And, uh, they were

00:12:59like, we want to sponsor you and you go to the media, talk about us. And then we're going to do

00:13:03this whole movie about you with product placement. And at the time I was like, Oh, that sounds like

00:13:07that's the product placement. Yeah. That's smart. And like the only reason I did the whole deal,

00:13:11I mean, money was pretty good, but like the main thing was I thought it was like a good business,

00:13:15like up angle. Cause I wanted to go to the media and I wanted to say literally the truth, which was

00:13:20I want to be in the business side of things. I want to be a part of that. And that's why I'm doing

00:13:24this stuff with these people because it's in like a business context. You know, I didn't want it to

00:13:28just be, I want to have sex and all I want to do is fuck. And this is my life now. Like, yeah,

00:13:32that's great. You know, but that wasn't my, that wasn't my story. Right. So that's, that's why I

00:13:38ended up doing the first movie with them. And how, how was it? I will say the first scene with Manuel

00:13:45was fucking oof, that boy. Yeah. Right. Um, the way he like whispers in your ear.

00:13:51Not that I just really encountered someone who fucks like a porn dude. It was like,

00:13:58what the fuck is happening to me? Like, I didn't even know where I was. I thought it was fucking

00:14:02Dorothy. Like it wasn't like that. It was just cause it was just, I'd never been fucked like

00:14:09that before. That was the main thing. So I'd say that was great. What happened was I got a yeast

00:14:13infection that I filmed the first scene on a Friday. And then on a Tuesday I got a yeast

00:14:18infection. Um, and, and they lost like good seven days, you know, where it's swollen. It's not fun.

00:14:24Right. Um, and I wasn't like always getting yeast infections, but that's what happens in porn when

00:14:28you're new and whatever. Um, so I called him on Tuesday. I'm supposed to fly out like Sunday or

00:14:33something to film on Monday and Tuesday, three more scenes for the movie. But I'm like, Tuesday,

00:14:37Sunday, it's not going to be clear. It's going to be kind of cleaning up, but it's not going to be

00:14:41like, I can't fuck on that. Not three scenes, you know? So I, I gave them like a whole week,

00:14:46right. I call them like, I can't do this, this stuff. You're going to have to like,

00:14:50you know, maybe postpone it like, you know, to the end of the week or something like that.

00:14:53And you know, I wish I could say something like nicer about that situation, but they basically

00:14:58told me like, we're going to cancel the movie if you don't, if you can't do it. I mean, I understand

00:15:04it sucks and that's how it works. Like they weren't being like mean necessarily just said

00:15:07they couldn't afford the situation and they already put all these deposits and they would

00:15:11just have to cancel it. Which honestly, Holly, like I believe them. And so I just did it,

00:15:16which is why I did those three scenes on a yeast infection, which was not fun.

00:15:21But like, that's, that wasn't, I don't think that was true because at the time,

00:15:25like I was everywhere. Like I was all over the media, like whatever you did with me at the time

00:15:30was going to get views. Like it was going to get signups, you know what I'm saying? So I like,

00:15:35I just, you know, that was like a bad first impression kind of because it was very painful.

00:15:41And I didn't think that needed to happen like that, but that's what happened anyway,

00:15:45as a result of that, though, that's what sort of started impacting my reputation a little.

00:15:50Cause it wasn't like it, my first movie was just not a like walk in the park. It wasn't like

00:15:55other girls were, Oh, she was great. It was perfect. We had no problems. Like, no,

00:15:58there were problems. Yeah. Not like there is, you know, and it's not like I was being like,

00:16:02literally the like easiest person in the world ever because I'm like lost and confused and like,

00:16:08don't want to fuck up and trying not to piss anyone off, but also trying to learn things.

00:16:17And so I was asking questions and that necessarily wasn't welcomed. And anyway,

00:16:20and that's just how it happened. It's water under the bridge, but that was the first movie. And then

00:16:24I took a break and got the big boobs that I shouldn't have gotten. And then I, and then I

00:16:30came back to porn in May. So the, all that stuff happened in January. I did a lot more media stuff

00:16:34that I came back in porn and man, you were one of the first types of scenes I did. And that was

00:16:37great. So all the stuff I did in May of that year was fun. I don't think I had any issue. I started

00:16:43having a lot of fun with all the sex, but a lot of damage had kind of already been done as to like

00:16:48my whole sort of brand. Cause it was, it just didn't, I can't explain it. I mean, maybe I'm

00:16:53full of, maybe it's crazy, but this is just what stuff was relayed to me from other people in the

00:16:58industry at the time. And it really stuck. Cause like I was ready to like do my best and I wanted

00:17:02to get along with everybody. I wanted to fuck everybody. I honestly, honestly, when I got into

00:17:05porn, I was like, well, there's going to be orgy parties like every weekend. Right? Like I want to

00:17:09go. Like, I swear to God, I was like, I was so disappointed when I got in and nobody invited

00:17:14me to fucking orgy parties. That's all I wanted to do. Yeah, I know. Right. It's not exactly boogie

00:17:23nights. Um, but yeah, that's, that's rough. I mean, I can understand like it's, it's hard as a

00:17:30producer, man, because I've definitely, you know, like, cause you do a lot of times you have to put

00:17:34deposits down on locations and they won't give it back to you or you have, you know, it's a real

00:17:39problem to schedule stuff. And then I've had people cancel on me because they've had, they've

00:17:44gotten sick or they've had whatever I see, whatever. And my first thought will be like,

00:17:49Oh motherfucker. But then I'll be like, well, they can't help it. You know what I mean? Like,

00:17:54and that's just like one of the things in the industry, like you got to accept that like

00:17:58sometimes people are going to get like infections. Sometimes people are going to get STDs. Like

00:18:02that's, that's a nature of the business and you have to like accept that.

00:18:05At that time. And then the, like I, they couldn't replace me cause it was literally,

00:18:08yeah, it was about you. Yeah. Um, but anyway, it's, it's whatever. Like I just wish I could

00:18:13have, I don't know, overcome that a little more and like gotten, I like more, I wanted to be

00:18:17friends with everybody. I wanted to fuck everybody. And I kind of didn't, I always went somewhere and

00:18:21people would always be like, Oh, you're nothing like what I heard about you. And I'd be like,

00:18:25Thanks. Yeah. So what do you think was like one of the best scenes that you did then while you

00:18:31were in the industry? I did a lot of good scenes. Like, honestly, like I genuinely was into it. Like

00:18:37what I wasn't into was waking up at 7am and taking a pretty girls at 9am and feeling like ass. Yeah.

00:18:44So like, I didn't like most of the job with just another reason why I quit is like, I only liked

00:18:48the sex. I was like, I guess I could just fuck in real life. Like I don't need to be born to have

00:18:53sex. Right. Um, but let's see best scenes. One of the most fun scenes was with you for sure with

00:19:01Ryan Driller and Aaliyah Love for Brazzers. Cause I got to do like pole dancing stuff.

00:19:05We did the stripper scene. Yeah. That was really great. Yeah. And you were,

00:19:10you were so impressive. There was a song that you played, it was the weekend.

00:19:14And I remember it was the, it was the hills I think. And it was the first time I'd ever heard

00:19:18that song. Such a shitty music voice. So they took out the good song. Like they couldn't even like

00:19:22kind of try to match it with copyright free. They put on some fricking like, I don't know, pop.

00:19:27I don't remember, but I believe you. It happens all the time. The music is so important. And a

00:19:31lot of times, yeah. When they pick like bad music, it's happened on so many of my productions. I'm

00:19:35like, Oh, you just ruined it. I just remember that set day. It was so fun. Cause I got to do

00:19:39the pole dancing and I always, in porn, I was always trying to get away from the secretary

00:19:42milf thing. I'm like, guys, I've been a stripper for years. I'm pretty acrobatic. I like video

00:19:46games. I'm really youthful. Did you find that everybody wanted to cast you as like a wall

00:19:50street, like executive domineering or whatever. And I'm like, dude, I'm still 12. Like I really

00:19:55am 12. Like I just like happened to like finance and stuff, but like I'm fucking 12. Yeah. I play

00:20:00like I'm a nerd. Um, so I got to like show more of myself on that scene. And then also I had weed

00:20:06lube. I never knew this was a thing, but I had just started going to the dispensaries around the

00:20:09time and buying like weed products that weren't the actual weed. Cause I was like, so curious.

00:20:13So I brought like weed lube that day to like, you know, and, and like, Whoa, was it good? Yeah.

00:20:19And then Aaliyah Love actually that day, like when I did this, people would always tell me

00:20:23get sloppier with your blowjobs, like get more spit. I'm like, I don't fucking know how to drool.

00:20:28Like I'm not a bulldog. Yeah. Like, I don't know how these girls, some girls are more like,

00:20:31they're just like drooly than others. But I've like always wanted to learn to do it. Cause I

00:20:35wanted to do it like nastier shit. And so I remember on that day, I'm like, Aaliyah, like,

00:20:40how do you like deep, how do you do this? Like, how do you go on spit? Like it's so like lube

00:20:44and she's like literally did. Oh my God. So you just take your hand and she starts like

00:20:50and then it's all like coming up. And I was like, Oh my God, my life has changed.

00:20:54And like every porn scene from then on, I'm just like bulldogging all over the cock.

00:20:59It's so funny. Cause I learned that trick from Taylor rain back in the day.

00:21:03And I remember that because yeah, if you kind of like gag yourself,

00:21:06it brings up this more like flummier kind of sticks more. It's almost like silicone.

00:21:11Yeah. Yeah. From the back of your throat. So you need to gag yourself in order to get

00:21:15like nasty damn Holly. Look at you. I've learned so much from porn, man. It's amazing.

00:21:23And yeah, I think that was, I don't know. I try to think of the best scenes. I remember

00:21:29like Johnny Castle and I had good chemistry. Those are fun scenes. I did this crazy scene

00:21:34with Ziggy star. Do you know who she is? Oh yeah. I've shot her. Oh my God. We did this

00:21:38nasty fucking lesbian scenes. Probably the only lesbian scene I genuinely came in.

00:21:43Um, cause she was a freak and it was a squirty scene for like elegant angel and they, um, I can't

00:21:50say that, but it was just nice. Uh, it was a chill set. I'll just say that it was like really chill.

00:21:55And, um, we like, I remember we're just like soaked in this pool of squirt everywhere and

00:22:00we're like dripping in it, which is nasty. But what made it cool was like, we got so into it

00:22:04and so hard that she's like, you have to fist me. And I'm like, I've never, I've never fisted a

00:22:08girl before. I don't know how to do it. I'm like trying to do it like in the scene though. So like,

00:22:11I'm not like being like, how do I fist you to the camera? Right. And I'm like, what? She's like,

00:22:15oh, you just like go like this. And so she puts her hand kind of where you put pinch all your

00:22:19fingers together and like kind of demonstrates like this. And I'm like, oh, so I go like this

00:22:24and this girl's tiny. This girl's like 90 pounds. Okay. You know? And I'm like, I'm like, no,

00:22:28I'm fairly petite, but you know, my hand it's, it's not like I'm not that small. She's 90 pounds.

00:22:33Right. And I'm like, there's no way I'm gonna be able to fist this chick. So I put it in and

00:22:37she's like, okay, you can like fist it now. And like I get the whole fist and I'm just like going

00:22:41in and out of this chick, like fisting her. She's like, oh my God. Yes. She's just like coming

00:22:46everywhere to the point. It's getting so raunchy and hard. Cause she's wanting me to be fisting

00:22:50her and like choking her. Like she wanted me to like fucking like, like rip her up. Like,

00:22:54I was like, oh my God, this bitch is crazy. And it got so intense. Like, like in a, in a

00:23:00fucked up way that like, uh, I forget his name. He shoot the dreads who for elegant angel,

00:23:04um, dreads guy, he's awesome, but he had to turn the camera off and just wait for it to,

00:23:09for her to get her thing off because he's like, this isn't what we wanted. Like we didn't want

00:23:14kink.com like choking fisting hardcore shit. Yeah. Some people, a lot of companies won't

00:23:21even shoot fisting. That's why you turned the camera off. It's considered like it's

00:23:25upset. It's probably like the, you didn't even want the footage of it. I think is what happened,

00:23:29but yeah. But Ziggy liked it. That's really memorable. So that's, it sticks out to me as

00:23:33a girl liked it. That's all it really matters. She was telling me I didn't have a choice.

00:23:39So what made you decide to leave the industry? Yeah. Um, you know, it was actually, it wasn't

00:23:46like a, like one thing, right. It was just, I didn't like that. I felt like I was always

00:23:50working uphill. There was no orgy parties. I wanted to be, I wanted to have fun and it

00:24:00stopped being fun really because you know, I would try to make friends and that was hard.

00:24:04And then people would have these early preconceptions and I feel like I was always a

00:24:08pariah. Even if I wasn't like, maybe it was all in my own head. Like, I don't know, but I didn't

00:24:11feel like I was like really a part of it, if that makes sense. And then on top of that, I totally

00:24:15didn't have the right look for how I look. If that makes it, I look better like now, but like then I

00:24:20just wasn't working. I didn't feel authentic to myself. I felt like I was trying to be someone I

00:24:24wasn't all the time. And I didn't know how to just change that. I was trying, I'd go on set,

00:24:28be like, put less makeup on me. Like, no, I don't want to wear a pencil skirt. I would try, but you

00:24:33know, there's only so much I could do. You don't have a lot of control over your own image when

00:24:36you're working for other companies. Yeah. And so I was just getting tired of that. And it, you know,

00:24:41porn fucks with your head too. Like, I'm a really confident person, but in porn, I felt like I was

00:24:45like a four, you know? And there was that. And then there would just be little things on sets

00:24:54that I would be like, oh, I guess I can't complain or I can't say something because

00:24:58that I'm a diva. Like, woo. You know? So do you feel like you didn't have a voice?

00:25:03I totally do. But every time I voiced it, my agent or someone would be like, you're being

00:25:08difficult again. And it sounds more like you're somebody who really wants to be in a position

00:25:12where you have control over the situation. Because it sounds to me like you felt kind of powerless

00:25:17and that's not where you want to be. I mean, who does? Well, like we were talking about earlier

00:25:21before we actually started the show, you know, how like, because you were saying that you really

00:25:25like being on the production end now as opposed to just being a performer. And you're like,

00:25:29why wouldn't everyone want to do this? But I think some people really just want to show up.

00:25:33They want to have sex. They want to get their check and they want to go home.

00:25:35I did that too, though. I like, I mean, when I got picked with like Ramon Nomar or like

00:25:39Jai Castle or like the people who I was, I could text or my buddies and like Chad White or whatever.

00:25:46I was like fucking radio scenes were great, you know? And I would do whatever they wanted. Like

00:25:50I wasn't, I wasn't like questioning every little thing. Like I would just, I would do what they

00:25:54wanted. You know, I don't think I was like super difficult or whatever. I mean, people tell me

00:25:58stories of girls who are like strung out, who are sure to show up like Sue. I would, at worst,

00:26:03I was 15 minutes late, maybe because like a cop pulled me over or something. You know, I'm not

00:26:07going to say I was like the epitome of punctuality or whatever, but I wasn't like fucking anybody's

00:26:11days over or something. It sounded to me like you just wanted to have more of like a choice.

00:26:16Um, I just wanted the few boundaries I had to be respected because honestly,

00:26:20there weren't that many. I was pretty nasty. Can I just tell you,

00:26:22like I didn't do IR or anal or gangbang or whatever, but like I fucking wanted to.

00:26:28There's no, you can always come back. I keep saying that while I'm at Expos right now,

00:26:33talking to like bang.com and like other places. And like, I love those. I love all these guys.

00:26:37I love them so fucking much. They're so cool. And they're all like, Hey, you're ripe for a

00:26:41comeback. You know, you could do it for our site. Like, and I'm like, yeah, it's not that I know.

00:26:47I don't know. I'm engaged. Like I actually would consider it, especially because I took my boobs

00:26:52out. I feel like, um, I feel like I look much better now. Right. I would be much more confident.

00:26:56I have little tiny perky boobs now, you know, you feel more authentic yourself. Yeah. Um, but,

00:27:03uh, uh, I'm engaged. So, you know, there's that he's like legit. He's not like a porn guy or

00:27:08anything. Yeah. He's awesome. Congratulations. That's awesome. Well, I mean, it sounds it's

00:27:13unfortunate because it sounds like you were, I mean, things are really changing now. I think

00:27:17people are really starting to see, especially with the me too movement that it's really important to

00:27:20listen to the performers and respect their boundaries and respect their no list and not

00:27:26push them into situations that they don't want to be. Well, cause it just hurts you. Cause you,

00:27:29then you lose the day over it. Like I told them ahead of time, I don't really want to work with

00:27:33them. Yeah. You know, they could have either a canceled me and got a new girl or whatever,

00:27:37or just been like, all right, let's see if we can find a new guy real quick. Cause then,

00:27:40cause then they wouldn't even risk losing that day. Right. Fine. Personally, whenever I shoot

00:27:44boy girl stuff for my own site and I don't understand like what, and I get it if you're

00:27:48shooting like a feature movie or something like that where you need a guy to fit a specific niche,

00:27:54like he's got to be a young guy and he's got to be like a bodybuilder or whatever that character

00:28:00is. But I always, always ask the girl, who does she want to work with? Yeah. Because I'm like,

00:28:04get the best scenes. I'll get the best scenes. You'll choose somebody that you like. Obviously

00:28:08they'll like you like, and everything will go great. That's what I want. I don't give a fuck

00:28:13who I'm shooting as long as he can keep his dick hard. He's respectful. He's clean. He's good

00:28:18looking. And the girl likes him. Yeah. Like I don't need to micromanage who the guy is. I always

00:28:23do that. I was down to fuck literally every guy. Like I didn't have a problem with like any of

00:28:27them. I was like ready. I like all of them. Yeah. And every girl like has, you know, the couple of

00:28:33guys, I mean, look, it's very rare that you're gonna like having sex with every single person

00:28:39in the industry. You know, there's gonna be some people that you just don't jive with. Yeah. And

00:28:42I don't understand why people just can't respect that. They can, but like the problem is a lot of

00:28:47times they set it up and that happens like within days of their shoot. Like, you know, even if they

00:28:52booked the girl in advance, they don't necessarily have the details set out. So then they finally

00:28:57like fill it in. They're like, Oh, by the way, you're working with this guy. It's like a day

00:29:00before they've already got the location, all this stuff. So it really pisses them off when the girl

00:29:03is like, um, so it's like, unless you're like a top 50 girl and then you're, it's well known that

00:29:08you won't work with these three dudes or whatever. That's like the only time it seems to work out.

00:29:12Okay. I hope I'm not like pissing anyone off. Cause like, I actually really like porn and I

00:29:17like a lot of people behind it. And like I said, I wish I wanted to fuck everybody. Like I wanted

00:29:21to go to all the orgy parties, by the way, porn, if you're listening, if you have an orgy party,

00:29:25hit me up, I'm down. Well, I mean, you know, you say what you think and you're honest, which I

00:29:32think not a lot of people are in this industry. And you know, I think it's important to look at

00:29:37all different sides of the industry, you know, and I have, I mean, when I started this podcast,

00:29:41I really wanted people to see what the industry was like for real. And I really wanted it to

00:29:45like discount a lot of those, you know, ideas of mainstream media that porn is a horrible,

00:29:50dark place. That's terrible. And it's always bad, but it's not, it's, there's a lot of great stuff,

00:29:56but there's also bad stuff too. Like any industry, there's the light and the dark. And I think it's,

00:30:02it's good to have you on to talk about experiences that you had that weren't always like 80, 20,

00:30:07like 80 positive. Cause I don't want this to just be like a completely whitewashed show

00:30:11because then it's like, if everybody was just like, porn's always awesome. Everything's great.

00:30:15And I never had a problem. It's like, well, that's completely unbelievable and nobody's

00:30:18ever going to buy that. So it's like, you got to look at, at both sides. And I think it's important

00:30:23to talk about all of these things and talking about this stuff and getting it out in the open

00:30:27is how we make positive changes. And then girls and like, like all the things that are going on

00:30:33now and that are being discussed in the media and on social media now, well, girls are like,

00:30:37yeah, I've had, now girls are finally coming out and saying, I've had my boundaries crossed. I've,

00:30:42you know, been in a situation where I felt like I couldn't say no. I felt like I wasn't allowed

00:30:46to say no. You can never really feel like you can say no, unless you're on a set with like a girl.

00:30:49That's the only time I've ever felt like, like I had some kind of like someone who had my back

00:30:53and there was like a female around. Yeah. And there's been a, I was actually. Also,

00:30:56it's the only time I ever had carrots on set. If you have your own set with this old guys,

00:31:01they just like, if there's any food at all, they just pick up like garbage at 7-Eleven or something.

00:31:05I bring carrots.

00:31:06Yeah, I know. And then there's another lady who shoots for, I think,

00:31:09DDF network I shot for. And that lady who was shooting that, like get carrots.

00:31:14So that's how you know you're in a good set. You've got carrots.

00:31:17I don't want to have shitty junk food. I'm trying to look cute. I don't want to get all

00:31:20bloated from your crappy sodium food. Like I need to eat a carrot. Okay.

00:31:23Yeah. I always go to Trader Joe's and I get a variety of wraps and salads and I always make

00:31:28sure there's vegan and vegetarian options. That's what I did when I shot for Vuli,

00:31:31my company that I'm doing, which see, I'm still in porn guys. Like I'm still filming this shit.

00:31:35I'm shooting people and everything. I still really like it. But yeah, when I did that,

00:31:41I got it for the crew too. So we had like all this nice vegan, vegetarians, carrots and shit.

00:31:46I do that too. So let's actually transition then. Let's talk about what you're doing now that you've

00:31:52left the industry and let's talk about this new platform that you're working on.

00:31:55Yeah. It's weird. I love porn, but the whole time I was in porn, and I don't think a whole

00:32:01lot of people know this unless they knew me personally, because then I wouldn't shut up

00:32:04about it. I can be very intense. Well, not intense in a bad way. I get very passionate

00:32:11and energetic about stuff that I believe in and that I'm going for. And when I got in porn within

00:32:16three months, I was like, man, I think there's room for a really nice VOD platform. There's not

00:32:22that many, most of the way porn is consumed on like pay sites and tube sites. And like, yes,

00:32:27we have VOD platforms. They still kind of cater to a specific niche and I wanted to expand on that,

00:32:33if that makes sense. And I was like, we live in a streaming digital age. People are used to

00:32:38consuming content in a very different way they are today than even just five years ago. And I

00:32:43wanted to modernize that delivery. So much about porn, I feel like is about let's just like churn

00:32:48out all this content constantly. I'm just like, well, what about just like, what about innovating

00:32:54on like the way you actually deliver it to people? Like people like innovate on the content, they get

00:32:58harder and rougher and more intense, blah, blah, blah. And then, or they go the opposite direction

00:33:01and then tushy black with a beautiful, you know, images. And so it's yes, content matters. And yes,

00:33:06content is king. But like, the delivery of a lot of that content is still kind of the same.

00:33:13So my whole thing, and while I was in porn, as I was trying to build this company at the time,

00:33:17it was called Bangbox. I renamed it to Vooli because I wanted something that doesn't sound

00:33:21so porny. Because if you go on Vooli, it doesn't look like a porn site. It has porn on it,

00:33:27but it looks clean. It looks like a streaming platform like Netflix or something. Of course,

00:33:32that's actually a big buzzword in porn right now is Netflix. I get that. But when people say

00:33:38Netflix, they mean the original series, the nice UI and like recommendations or whatever. And that's

00:33:44kind of the superficial things. But I don't know if a lot of people really understand like the

00:33:48intense amount of technology that goes into Netflix's platform. Like if you go read the

00:33:53Netflix dev blog, you're going to feel like you just started fucking studying quantum physics.

00:33:59Like it's like a lot. So I had issues like getting funding. Like I needed developers

00:34:04for the vision I had. It wasn't just to look pretty. Sorry, you and that tablecloth.

00:34:09Oh, you know, it's funny. I have Asperger's syndrome. Like it's questionable. It's just

00:34:16like a psychiatrist. Like I don't diagnose me. So it's like a smart autism thing, I guess. And

00:34:23part of the thing is like I'm very fidgety. Like I'm always doing something with my head. So that's

00:34:28why I'm like- I should have brought you like arts and crafts.

00:34:31Usually if I have like something like a rubber band, I'll be like fucking with it. Anyway.

00:34:36You're fine. We'll just keep pulling the tablecloth back and forth.

00:34:39Oh my god.

00:34:40Because you like pull and then I pull it this way a little bit. And then you pull it that way. And

00:34:43then I pull it this way a little bit. And I was like, oh my god.

00:34:45We're playing tablecloth.

00:34:48Okay. Sorry. Go ahead.

00:34:49Yeah. So I was in porn and like I had Wall Street friends and all this stuff. But it's

00:34:52really hard to get funding when all you have is an idea. You don't have any proof of concept. You

00:34:56don't have audience. You don't have shit. It's hard to get money. So I was trying to bootstrap it

00:35:00and build it based on having good partners and technology stuff. But it still just wasn't

00:35:04happening. So when I quit porn, I wanted to keep pursuing it. But again, at that point,

00:35:10I was a little disillusioned. I need to take a step away and just kind of get my bearings and

00:35:13maybe even get my identity and confidence back because I really don't think I was fully page

00:35:18when I was in porn. And I wanted to be page again, not Veronica. So I took a step back.

00:35:22And part of that was like, oh, I want to make a YouTube channel. I was like,

00:35:25that looks cool. I feel like I have all these ideas. I like to talk a lot. Okay.

00:35:30So I started a YouTube channel and it didn't like blow up immediately or anything, but

00:35:35it got steady growth, you know, within like six months, I had like 10,000 subs. But within

00:35:41then I by then around March of 2017, I met my fiance and like, so I was living with him and

00:35:49stuff. And then I started pushing it really hard and making all this content and whatever. And I

00:35:52grew it to like, over 100,000 subscribers. Now, of October of last year, I finally was like,

00:35:58you know what? I want to talk about this company because I could never get it out of my head. I

00:36:01always wanted to build this really sleek VOD platform that had mainstream appeal and whatever

00:36:07is my vision the entire time. So up until before you hit that, what were you producing on YouTube?

00:36:12Like what kind of content were you doing? I made funny stuff like gross things girls do

00:36:17gross things guys do. Why I quit porn. How much porn stars get paid in porn story times about

00:36:23the one time escorted in New York City or was like to work on Wall Street. Like I just honestly

00:36:29just documented my life and like any interesting experiences. And then sometimes I had creative

00:36:33skit ideas like, like, you know, when you're on Instagram and the girls have the, the, the leggings

00:36:38and it goes straight into their ass crack and it looks like they painted their leggings on. And

00:36:41it's like, they're not wearing pants. So you see the whole outlines of all their ass. I was like,

00:36:45I want to do that. Like why I've never had my assy leggings like that. I want my assy leggings.

00:36:51I was so jealous. And so I went on this, like one of my videos is like, I went on a quest to,

00:36:56I went to a bunch of star stores in the mall, trying on all different leggings with my fiance

00:37:00and trying to find like a ass eating leggings. And that was like a video. I did a video where

00:37:08I tried to dig for a day and I ordered one of those like gender play dicks. And I got like

00:37:12boxers that you could put the dick in. And then I walked around with a dick and I, and I got the

00:37:16thing. There's a thing you can pee standing up with that they give girls for like camping and

00:37:21shit. So you have to squat or whatever. So I like had a dick for a day. I tried putting it in my

00:37:25pants. I tried sitting with my dick and like fucking with my dick and whatever. I called my

00:37:29mom, I showed her my dick. And then I literally on YouTube, like peed standing up. Cause I wanted

00:37:38to experience the power of, of the power of being able to pee standing up. It's so like freeing,

00:37:44you know, were you able to write your name in the snow?

00:37:46I tried to do a figure eight dude. It's so hard. It's so hard to aim. Well, to be fair,

00:37:50you haven't had a lot of practice. I mean, you haven't had this dick your whole life.

00:37:55But yeah, so I made like silly stuff like that on YouTube or whatever. And that's what I did. And

00:38:00I finally started talking about the business stuff and whatever. And I made this video,

00:38:03why I quit my porn company, which, you know, obviously didn't really quit cause I never

00:38:08stopped thinking about it. The video got like 270,000 views and the comment section was like,

00:38:12yeah, why does this exist? You should make this. Don't stop. It's so smart. I'm like,

00:38:15really? All you guys are really telling me to build something so you can pay for porn.

00:38:18Really? Like y'all want to pay for porn? Are you sure you're on YouTube?

00:38:21And then also sprinkled in there were some comments like dumb whore or

00:38:25just cause like YouTube is like the worst with comments.

00:38:28Of course, of course. I don't think that's so bad though. I tend to,

00:38:32I get those, but not terribly on this video. I was really shocked. Like I took that video. It's

00:38:36like proof of concept. Like, oh, people really do want this. They really would pay for porn

00:38:39under this business model. I was like, all right. So three months later I said, Hey guys,

00:38:44you told me I really need to build this company. Here's all the challenges. Like I need money for

00:38:48this, this, and this, like, that's what happened. I can't do it. I can't hire. Here's the thing

00:38:52with developers. Like you can find business people or marketing people who will just like

00:38:56work with you for equity, but like you can't find developers like that. Like they don't like,

00:38:59cause every startup ever is trying to call their developer buddy and be like, Hey,

00:39:03you want to do this for equity? And like, it's a lot of upfront work for a developer,

00:39:07a lot of hours. And so they want to get paid. Like makes sense. Cause and then,

00:39:11and they're in demand so they can get paid otherwise with other companies. So you got

00:39:14to pay them. So I told them like, Hey, what do you guys think about $50,000? I think I can get

00:39:19something basic up for that kind of money. By the way, I was super wrong. $200,000 later. Holy shit.

00:39:26Yeah, I know. And it sounds like so much money, but it's crazy how fast it goes.

00:39:30And I was like, uh, so, uh, 50 K, you know, if you're interested in investing, we can make it

00:39:34legit, do a private placement agreement. I'll send you legal documents and blah, blah, blah.

00:39:38Stock certificate kind of shit, whatever. Um, and I didn't expect anybody. Like it was more

00:39:43of an offhanded thing. It wasn't like the whole video was about it. It was like a vlog. And then

00:39:46I started talking about, I would consider it if maybe I could get some money. And I thought maybe

00:39:51one person would email me or two for a couple grand or whatever. I didn't think that it was

00:39:56actually possible to do this. I just thought, well, fuck it. Let's see, you know? And, um,

00:40:00within two days I had over a hundred thousand dollars in commitments from in my email inbox.

00:40:05And then within one month I sent out all the documents and the paperwork and the legal stuff

00:40:09and whatever. And I had a hundred thousand dollars in the bank. That was last January.

00:40:13That's crazy. Crazy. By the way, still not enough. Needed way more.

00:40:19So then, yeah, ever, that's, uh, ever since last January, I've been building Vuli and, um,

00:40:22I have, I have like six developers that work for me and I have like a lawyer who's like, uh,

00:40:27he's got some equity. I have a backend lead developer. That's a little bit of equity.

00:40:31And then I have a whole bunch of investors. I raised another round of a hundred thousand,

00:40:35um, this past summer doing the same thing. I went to YouTube. I was like, here's what happened.

00:40:39Here's all this tech stuff. Here's the breakdown. Like, this is why I need more money. I can't do

00:40:43it without it. And I'll give you equity and email me. And again, within two weeks, that time I had

00:40:48another hundred K in the bank. It sounds like the stuff dreams are made of. Like it does not sound

00:40:52real. I can't believe I did it. I can't believe it like it's possible. Yeah. Cause I was telling

00:40:57you earlier, if you've got to be, you have your ducks in a row, you can't just go on YouTube and

00:41:00take people's money. Like you've got to like make it legit. There's a lot of, um, legal regulations

00:41:04surrounding like private placement agreements, which is what I was doing. Basically private

00:41:07placement agreements. Um, something called blue sky laws. You've got to have a lawyer who

00:41:11understands this stuff. So it's not like you can just go on YouTube and be like,

00:41:14send me money as an investor. Like you've got to be like on top of it. But yeah, it's, um,

00:41:19I've done all that. I did it fine. Like there's nothing illegal about what I did is totally.

00:41:22Right. Well, it's really helps that you've got that background in finance.

00:41:26A little bit. I mean, I still needed a lawyer. I didn't know how to do a whole thing. I just

00:41:29knew it was possible to do private placements. Yeah. Yeah. See, like I'm so clueless about that

00:41:33because I was telling you earlier, um, before the podcast, you know, I've always considered

00:41:37like getting an investor, um, in my company just cause I don't have the money to create

00:41:41the kind of content that I want to, but I'm like, I don't even know where to go. I'm like,

00:41:45I have no idea. And then, so that's amazing that you were just able to go on YouTube and be like,

00:41:49Hey people, send me money. And then like people just fucking send you money.

00:41:52Sounds like that. I know. It's so ridiculous. It was a little more involved. Like I had to

00:41:55send people, I wrote like a 30 page business plan. I think that like the fact that you approach

00:41:59people with this business plan and with all that you, and you had all your ducks in a row,

00:42:03people felt safe giving you their money as opposed to just like sending you money.

00:42:07Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I would even tell people like they were like, Oh, this could be like,

00:42:11you know, a lot, but listen, this is a risky investment. Like startups are risky investments.

00:42:15If you're someone who prefers a more stable thing that is definitely going to give you some kind of

00:42:19payout. Like this is not the thing for you. However, also venture investments like this,

00:42:24like super early stage startups can be some of the most lucrative. If the company works,

00:42:29like imagine if you knew the Tinder, the Twitter guys or whatever, and they had like nothing.

00:42:33And then you gave them, you know, 10 grand for like half a percent. Well,

00:42:37fuck now you're a multimillionaire today, you know? So that's what, but I wouldn't try to sell

00:42:43people on it. I would be like, listen, it's risky investment. Don't give me your money unless you

00:42:47are okay with losing it. Right. You know, right. Not that I'm not going to lose it for them,

00:42:51by the way, I'm going to make them a shill of money guys. Don't worry. I'm going to do my

00:42:54fucking best. But, um, but yeah, you definitely, you definitely have to have a lot of disclosures

00:42:59in your, um, legal documentation. It's not hard. It's only like a three page agreement.

00:43:03It doesn't have to be like, you know, the fricking declaration of independence or some shit.

00:43:10So tell us a little bit about what your platform is going to be like and what's going to be on it.

00:43:14Um, I have a lot of studios so far about evil angel, porn pros, private, um, uh, babe.com,

00:43:21join me. I've got a bunch of different studios. Can't remember everything on top of my head. More

00:43:25coming. I know that. So, um, and it says it's a VOD site. You can buy a scene for a dollar 99 to

00:43:33399, depending on what the studio wants, or you could buy it as a series. So like if, you know,

00:43:38basically a lot of times they take those DVDs and they sell it as a DVD for 20 bucks and there's

00:43:41four scenes in it, but they're entirely, they're just slightly related and thematically like shot

00:43:46by the same director or shot by the same studio. Same director. Exactly. So to me, like that's a

00:43:53series, that's something that might appeal to the same person who might want all those scenes.

00:43:56If he cares about that thematic cool stuff, but if he's a star driven guy, if he likes, you know,

00:44:02he likes Riley and Keisha and Lana and whatever, and Lena and whatever, all those, uh, Katrina,

00:44:08all the fucking hottest chicks at the top of business. He likes those girls. You know,

00:44:11he's not going to want to buy a whole series with three scenes of girls that he doesn't know and

00:44:15doesn't particularly like that much or whatever. So, you know, you want to sell them that scene.

00:44:19And it's not like they don't already do this on VOD. They do, but it's, in my opinion, more

00:44:24tacked on, less, it's like not dedicated. Like on my platform, there's no downloads,

00:44:29there's no DVD covers, like whatever. It's just, it's a streaming platform. Like you're going to

00:44:33feel like, like you're looking almost like it's all landscape thumbnails, like YouTube. It's not

00:44:37DVD portraits and stuff. So people can't download these videos. They can only stream it. But if they

00:44:42buy it, they have it for life. Yeah. It's like Amazon prime. If you buy something, it's in your

00:44:46library. So it's more of like a, obviously if I go out of business, you lose your purchases kind

00:44:50of thing. Um, but it's more, it's convenient at least. And I can, I can sell it a little less

00:44:57than working with the studios on this because like they don't want me to undercut other VOD

00:45:01platforms, of course, but I'm also not offering as much as other VOD platforms. So it should be a

00:45:05little cheaper because they're only getting the streaming, you know? Um, I, for one would never

00:45:09download shit. Like I would never. And a lot of people are like, well, I would never sign up for

00:45:13that because I need downloads. And I'm like, I just, that's cool. Good for you. There's a lot

00:45:16of places for you everywhere else offers that. So good, good. That's good. But that's not like,

00:45:21I'm not catering to someone who has a porn collection on their hard drive and like organizes

00:45:25it with like a special software. They download it off of GitHub and they get super into it.

00:45:29I'm trying to find those people who are like 22, 23, maybe they watch free porn, but they just notice

00:45:34on Pornhub they can only see 720p. They want to see it on their TV. It looks like ass in 720p on

00:45:39their TV. They care about quality. They care about aesthetics. They care about full length. They don't

00:45:42want to see ads. They want, um, they want a more personalized experience. So, you know, machine

00:45:47learning is a big buzzword right now, you know, but I don't know that a lot of people actually,

00:45:52do you understand how expensive it is to run machine learning? Like it's not something you

00:45:56can just code out and put on your site. Like, I think a lot of people kind of think that from

00:46:00what I'm encountering artificial intelligence and machine learning, uh, driven recommendations. Like

00:46:05that's what you see on Netflix. So I was going to ask you some machine learning is like analytics.

00:46:11So they look at what you watch and then they give you suggestions based on what you purchase. Yes.

00:46:15But like porno say, Oh, where did you do that? There's recommended for you, but it's all tag

00:46:19based. It'll be at this one's tag with blonde and cinematic. This one's tag blonde and cinematic.

00:46:23Yes, that matters. But there's so many more things that can go into a user equation. Like

00:46:27from true machine learning, you have to capture every single thing the user does on your site,

00:46:32on every single part of the site. Like if they exit the video player, if they pause,

00:46:35when they pause, what timestamp that was, how long, what time they stopped watching the video,

00:46:40right? Start detecting these like subtle user patterns. Um, and to do that as a huge computing

00:46:47process. So think like crypto mining, like if you want to have legit machine learning, it's pretty

00:46:52much like you got to compute, like you are mining crypto. Like is that legit? And it's very

00:46:56expensive to do that on the cloud, which is what you want to do for a lot of times for streaming

00:47:00machine learning recommendations. Or you can invest in a shillow of expensive hardware. And

00:47:04I'm talking about like Titan five G graphics, video cards, like shit that like people are not

00:47:09using unless they're Netflix. Right. Um, so shit, I'm just telling everybody fucking how to do

00:47:14everything. It's okay. We don't, we totally aren't understanding like one of the biggest

00:47:19expenditures for my startup right now is the machine learning. Yes. Cause I want people to

00:47:23come to Vuli and be like, damn, it already knows what I like. I've been here like twice. And it's

00:47:28like, that's exactly what I wanted to see. Sweet. Yeah. I'll buy that. I like that. Damn. You really

00:47:33care about me as a user. Like this feels like it's just about me. It doesn't feel like I have

00:47:37to search through like some, a huge catalog of shit to find something that's relevant to me.

00:47:41And that scene could be four years old and he would have no clue. He wouldn't care because we

00:47:45detected that that's something he would like, you know? And I mean, is it going to be as robust

00:47:49as I totally want at first? Like, no, here's a fun fact about Netflix. All right. This is an

00:47:53example of a quote unquote machine learning that they do with their images. You take good

00:47:57will hunting on Netflix. Okay. Um, the, uh, if someone is on Netflix, they watch a lot of romance

00:48:02movies. It's going to show Matt Damon and the girl kind of having like a picture of them together

00:48:07being like romancy on Google hunting on the Netflix. But if you are someone watches a lot

00:48:12of comedies instead, and you're, you clearly have that kind of user taste. They're going to show a

00:48:16picture of goodwill hunting with Robin Williams on it. Totally different. So they actually specify

00:48:21the thumbnail based on what they think you, I had no idea. They have different graphic designs for

00:48:26languages as well, depending on not all of their content, but a lot of it. So that's just one thing

00:48:31Netflix does machine learning. Why? So like when you talk Netflix, you can't just say a pretty

00:48:36streaming site with series original series, right? Like, cause that's the superficial thing.

00:48:41Like you've got to have this heavy backend tech and they have a fuckload of infrastructure. They

00:48:45had so many graphic designers. Oh my God. Wow. That's incredible. I didn't know that. It's so

00:48:51interesting. So are you going to be, are you going to like really curate this channel? Are you going

00:48:56to be very specific about the kind of stuff that you put on there? I don't care what I don't,

00:48:59it'll be as well. Yes. And no, it's all professional or at least amateur professional.

00:49:04Like it needs to be shot. Well, it needs to be well lit. It needs to be, you know, it can be

00:49:08the amateur ish, but not actual amateur. Does that make sense? Like the fake amateur, it's

00:49:12actually professional, but they doubt it as amateur. Yes. That's cool. Um, but, uh, I want

00:49:18high quality. I want HD. I want all that kind of stuff. I want full length. So I don't want five

00:49:22minute foot job clips, you know, like only be not because that stuff's not great. Amateur is great.

00:49:27Everyone in porn is probably going to say it's going in the amateur direction. Sure. But I want

00:49:32to do one thing, focus on it and just do it really well. Like if, if you like professional porn,

00:49:37I want that. I want you to just think bully in your mind. Be like, that's where I need to be.

00:49:41Like I am a bully person. That's what I want. I want, I just want professional curated. Perfect.

00:49:46It's not curated. Like I choose it for you. Right. It's just curated. Like the site learns you.

00:49:50Right. Right. Right. Yeah. Okay. Big brother's watching. I'm just kidding. We don't actually

00:49:54store a lot of user data at all. We only store the behaviors. Okay. You know what I'm saying?

00:49:58Like we have your email and then we have all your behaviors, right? I don't care. I don't need,

00:50:03I can't even see people's passwords. It's all encrypted. Right. So now this is live now,

00:50:07right? No, I'm watching beta. It's a closed beta by February 14th. So right now you can like sign

00:50:13up for beta on bully.com and so you'll get access. It might actually be within two weeks. Like it's

00:50:18ready. It works. There's just finishing touches. I want to put more content on it and stuff like

00:50:22that. But it, um, no, it's not live just yet. So when you signed up for beta, it just means

00:50:27that you understand that there's going to be like glitches in there and there's going to be,

00:50:31and is it, is it something where you're, it's like an open feedback? Like if you find something

00:50:35that's an issue, it'll be in the discord, the feedback. I mean, I don't have like a live chat

00:50:38for the feedback. Everyone who signs up for founder gets a discord access, which is like,

00:50:43you know, a discord is right. Not really. Oh, it's like a, it's just like a chat server. So

00:50:47you can have a private server of people and I invite those people. So they have access to me

00:50:50directly and they can ask me questions and be like, Hey Paige, how does this work? Like

00:50:53Paige, I forgot my password. It doesn't work to reset it. Like things like that. Yeah. But like

00:50:57if you want to, for beta though, you'll be able to find porn, buy it, own it and watch it. Okay.

00:51:02So like that stuff is, shouldn't be glitchy. Right, right, right, right. You know, it might

00:51:05be like you catch like, Oh, this image wasn't right or something. This, this image showed up,

00:51:09but it was really supposed to be this image of this other girl. Like maybe something like that

00:51:12will happen. Okay. Not like bugs where you're like unable to access something. Okay. It works.

00:51:17Okay. How long have you been working on it? Well, my idea was three months with,

00:51:21then I started porn. I had this idea. Right. So that was technically since 2015. But as far as

00:51:26like actually getting somewhere with it, I started last January. So I built the whole thing this past

00:51:29year. And are you just like living, breathing, sleeping it? Pretty much. It's funny. You know,

00:51:35actually I will say, I wish I could say I worked 12 hours a day for the past year, but I spent a

00:51:41lot of time bucking off because I didn't know like what I was, I had to learn a lot. Okay.

00:51:47And when I say fucking off, not that I was like being lazy. That's not what I mean. I mean like

00:51:50I didn't know what I was supposed to be doing a lot of the time until now. Now I'm like busy as

00:51:54shit. But like for the, we're just getting it started. I was like, okay, I found the developers.

00:51:58They say they're developing, but where is it? Yeah. You know, there'll be problems like that.

00:52:02And like, oh, I need to get a merchant account. Okay. Oh, this just so many things were coming

00:52:07up. Huge. Yeah. And so for a while during the quote unquote development process, the biggest

00:52:12bottleneck was just because my developers were not organized. I didn't, I thought I had a good

00:52:18project manager, but he turned out not to be a good project manager, but I didn't know. And none

00:52:22of the tech guys would tell me. So when I did finally fire him, they're like, oh my God, thank

00:52:26you for firing. And we were so, he didn't know anything. And I was like, guys, just DM me.

00:52:30No, but like I'm telling you, tech guys have such a bad, they're so bad at like talking to you on

00:52:35like a human level. Like I have to have like people translate for like my tech guys to me.

00:52:41Like I needed like a translator because like, and they, and they'll just like, and I had this

00:52:45problem with my last guy who was running my hosting company. Like he would just try to,

00:52:49he would say stuff to me. Like I was supposed to know what the fuck he was talking about. And I

00:52:52had no idea what he was talking about. And then he'd like get mad at me that like,

00:52:56I didn't understand fucking computer talk. I'm like, dude, I'm a fucking like producer.

00:53:01I'm a director. I don't get this shit. Like you need to talk to me like I'm a five-year-old,

00:53:05but not like in like a five-year-old, you're an idiot five-year-old.

00:53:09If you have an issue like that, everything you want to text me, I'll tell you. What I did is I,

00:53:12I'm not saying I'm like a programmer, I'm not. But what I did is I just like really dug in,

00:53:17I got with my lead backend developer. I was like, let's get on Google Hangouts and fucking teach me.

00:53:21Like, what do I just, how does this shit work? Like, what are you doing?

00:53:24Share your screen with me? Like, show me where it is. Where are the videos? How do they get there?

00:53:27How do they get over there? What do I have to do to do that? Okay. Why doesn't that work? Like,

00:53:30and so from that, I'm like, now I can tell you my whole tech stack. And I actually do a little bit

00:53:34of, um, I don't know if you know what the code J S O N is. Jason, do you know what Jason is? He

00:53:39knows what Jason is. He's like, I don't fucking know what Jason is. What's up Jason? Got a big

00:53:46dig, Jason? Anyway. Um, but basically Jason's just like a database language. So it's basically

00:53:53like, Oh, Holly, you sent me this, um, you know, a solo scene with Leah Love. Cool. So that needs

00:53:59to be put on the site. Well, the site communicates with the database with what's called an API.

00:54:04The same way, if you want to pull data, like pull tweets onto your website, you have a, you

00:54:09communicate with a Twitter API and you just put that API. It's all it is. It's just like a line

00:54:13of code that you can put in your HTML or your website or whatever, um, that specifies to do

00:54:19something. And it, and it knows if you install the, the way to communicate with it, then you're

00:54:23good. That's how the APIs work. So anyway, so you'll have a database and it's like a big space,

00:54:28like complicated spreadsheet, you know, here's the, here's her name and here's her boob size.

00:54:31And here's how tall she is. And here's the description of her bio, all this shit. Um,

00:54:36and, uh, what were they saying? So you take that scene and you want to put it into your database

00:54:41and then your website front end is what they call it. It's going to pull from your database

00:54:45for it to like talk to your database. So it knows to pull Aaliyah Love in this new scene with, uh,

00:54:51Red Rocket or whatever. Um, it needs that API coded in. Right. Um, but to do that, you have to

00:54:57use oftentimes Jason to tell the database, here's her name. Her name is Aaliyah Love. This is the

00:55:03scene title. This is the description. Like if I showed you Jason code is very readable. It's very

00:55:07easy, but you basically put this code in and then it automatically can post to the database.

00:55:12And then once it's in the database, then it becomes able to access on the site. That makes

00:55:16sense. And so then the site can like call a database. And when someone clicks the picture

00:55:20of the scene that it's supposed to lead to the database, the site does a database call,

00:55:24pulls all that information and then it makes it look pretty, takes all that information and puts

00:55:27it into the way you wanted it to look with like the font and the pictures and whatever. And that's

00:55:32how fucking so websites work, guys. I hope you are ready for it. Yeah. Wow. I totally know how

00:55:38it all works. That 100% did not go over my head. I mean, I understood it sort of, but it's like,

00:55:45I'm one of those people that needs to do something like a hundred times before like it really sinks

00:55:48in. Okay. Well, at least when your tech guy comes to you and he's like, has he ever said front end

00:55:53or back into you? Oh yeah. Okay. So front end is what makes it look pretty. And then back in is

00:55:58where you store all your information and then there's a way to make them communicate. And API

00:56:03is how they talk to each other. That's if you mainly know that stuff, then you can kind of,

00:56:06if he says there's a problem with this and you can be like, oh, okay. Got it. Got it. Got it.

00:56:11So when he, so you said, are you planning on officially launching on February 14th?

00:56:16I'm not sure. It's actually just a really a matter of like, okay, at this point, the reason I brought

00:56:21up the Jason thing is because at this point it's all me. I'm putting all of that content and all

00:56:25those pictures and all of that information into the database so that the site can pull it right.

00:56:29I'm doing this because I don't really have time to train somebody to do it with the eye that I

00:56:33have. So I'm going to have to build out a big department of people who do this. Eventually

00:56:37it's like a lot of data entry basically, but it's really just a matter of like how quickly I can get

00:56:41enough stuff on there and get everything all linked up and working. Right. And then enough

00:56:45for it, which I think it's pretty close. Like I think I could just launch beta and keep adding

00:56:49more content as it's live and people are accessing the site. So there's just a few little things I

00:56:53want to fix before I officially launch it. Like I could probably launch it in like two weeks,

00:56:57but I'm just, I thought February 14th would be like a cool day. Maybe. So, you know, I mean,

00:57:04it'd be like a very soft launch. It would literally just be like, if you're a founder or you watch my

00:57:09YouTube channel, you'll know it's up and you can go. Wow. And then the official launch will be like

00:57:13a month or two after that, like official. And that's when I'll start posting stuff on tube sites

00:57:18and like driving traffic and like paying for marketing stuff. And you shot your own movie for

00:57:24it, right? It was like a series. Yeah. And then are you planning to, are you going to planning to go

00:57:29into production and start to shoot more and more stuff? Yeah. It's the reason this cause like

00:57:32original content, if I own it, then I have all the profitability. If I have revenue sharing deals

00:57:37with studios, they have most of the profitability from sales, which rightly so they paid for it and

00:57:42they took all the risk with the content. Like, cool. But you know, for to, in order for me to

00:57:45keep re-investing in the business, I needed a way that could be profitable. So that's why I was

00:57:49shooting original content. And over time I have this idea, I don't know if I'll be able to pull

00:57:54it off, but like, I would, I want to pay performers like kind of royalties, not exactly. Cause it's

00:58:02not tech, it wouldn't technically be a royalty, but I'm have this idea for like how I could

00:58:07get basically pay performers for, for sales of the scenes, not in, in kind of an affiliate way,

00:58:11but kind of a legit royalty way. Like I, on my side, if you go to it, like I don't ever on any

00:58:16of the bios say, um, so-and-so won the best award for dick sucking. And she just loves to dribble

00:58:23cum out of her mouth. Like a lot of these bios are like a little bit too lewd. And like so many of

00:58:29these girls are actually really impressive and they're like smart or they're like super like

00:58:33Danny Daniels is like a fucking amazing artist. And like skin diamond is amazing musician.

00:58:37Carter Cruz is baller Carter Cruz, a Darcy Dolce, great, um, DJs. Like I'm sure I'm forgetting a

00:58:43ton of people that it's like actually a lot of talented girls and like their bios, like never

00:58:47talk about that or almost never. And like, so when I make these bios, I paid, I paid a girl to do a

00:58:52bunch of research on a lot of stars to the point where I could, some of them don't have much about

00:58:55them, like they're new to business or something, but I'm trying to make it like very humanizing

00:58:59and like very cool. That's why when I called you and I was like, Hey, I have some stuff of you as

00:59:04a director, can you send me a picture of you? Cause I want you to have a director page and I

00:59:08want, I want people to come on Bully and feel like, Oh, porn's cool. Like porn has this cool,

00:59:12like it's not seedy. It's not gross. There's like faces on it. There's people behind it. Yeah. The

00:59:17girls as people, I want the studios, even the studios will have pages and I don't want them

00:59:21to just, here's your big porn brand with a bunch of titties. You know, I want like to the, as much

00:59:25as possible, I want to have pictures of like the humans behind the scenes or at least that'd be

00:59:30their face if they don't show their face. Yeah. I really have this idea to just make it really

00:59:34nice and pretty and approachable and not pretty. And I like a female friendly, like it's still

00:59:39porn where I just want to humanize everything. And like, I don't know, I just, I want, I want,

00:59:45I just wanted to be better for everybody. I want everybody to be happier and make more money and

00:59:51have a, have a, have a more fun time than I think I did overall, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And

00:59:56I want studios to make more money and I want girls to make more money and I want to give

01:00:00consumers a reason to spend more money. Right. I was going to say that's the key. People are like,

01:00:04hashtag pay for your porn, pay for it. I'm like, I don't want to pay for porn. The main ways there

01:00:08are to pay for it. Like they all look like really sketch to me. And it's like, it's all the same

01:00:12call centers with the same billing companies. Not that they're bad. Some of the billing companies

01:00:16are great, but it's like a lot of these places use the same places to take payments and stuff

01:00:20because they provide those services. But then the consumer is like super frustrated. Like

01:00:24I got to fucking spend an hour just to cancel a membership, you know, and I only went in for this

01:00:29one scene that I wanted. I didn't want the whole site. Like, it's just kind of a pain in the ass

01:00:32to pay for porn. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And like only fans is like easy. So people just do it,

01:00:37you know? So like, let's make it a little nicer for the consumer. Let's make it friendlier to

01:00:42the studios and the performers and let's just fucking all band together. And yeah,

01:00:47we'll be happy. Well, that sounds amazing. I'm excited to see it launch and I wish you all the

01:00:57best on that. It's really, really cool. Thank you so much for coming on. It was really great to have

01:01:02you. Can you tell everyone where they can tell us your YouTube channel? Cause I don't think you

01:01:06plugged that yet. And then all your social media and all that stuff. Yeah. It's just Redhead

01:01:10Redemption on YouTube. And I am Paige J, Paige with an I on Twitter and Instagram,

01:01:15but you go to my YouTube channel. It's better. Go to your YouTube channel. And then your website

01:01:20is Vuli.com. V as in Victor, U-L-I. Just Vuli like Huli from Silicon Valley, but Vuli, V-U-L-I.

01:01:27I only knew cause I was looking at the back of your phone, which has the name on it, which.

01:01:31Yeah. I'm wearing a necklace that's got Vuli on it. I noticed that as well. You're all about the

01:01:34branding girl. I love it. Try, try. Awesome. Awesome. Well, it sounds really, really cool.

01:01:39And I'm excited to see, I'm excited to see where you take it to the moon.

01:01:46Awesome. Thank you guys so much for tuning in. You can follow me on Instagram and on Twitter

01:01:51at Holly Randall. And if you want to support this podcast, you can go to patreon.com

01:01:56slash Holly Randall and filtered. If you want to support my new art book project,

01:02:00you can go to patreon.com slash Holly Randall art. I'm really excited about that. I did my

01:02:06first shoot for that with Emily Bloom a couple of weeks ago. I am going to be posting the pictures

01:02:11in the next couple of days. It came out amazing. And then obviously you can always go to Holly

01:02:15Randall.com as well. Thank you guys so much. We'll see you next week.

Paige Jennings interview / Podcast

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