Join the Celtics Beat podcast as they dive into the controversial exclusion of Jaylen Brown from Team USA, sparking discussions on player selections, potential political influences, and personal biases in elite basketball competitions. Jaylen's frustration over being overlooked despite his impressive achievements fuels speculation on team dynamics and individual motivations, especially alongside teammate Jayson Tatum.
The podcast delves into the intricacies of player dynamics, ownership dynamics within the Celtics organization, and the upcoming Summer League in Vegas, where young talents like Jaden Springer and Drew Peterson aim to shine. Stay tuned for insights on the Celtics' prospects, the anticipation of the upcoming season, and the broader landscape of competitive basketball.
Gary Washburn is a Senior NBA Writer for The Boston Globe. Gary joins the program to chat about Jaylen Brown's comments against Team USA, who his biggest beef should be with, and what to interpret about the sale of the Boston Celtics. Twitter: @gwashburnglobe
0:00 - Intro
1:24 - Offseason Updates Recap
3:43 - Jaylen Brown's Team USA Issue
8:00 - Selection Process Concerns
10:07 - Team USA Opportunity
17:34 - Booker's scoring prowess
20:16 - Kawhi's questionable selection
24:07 - Jaylen's overlooked contributions
26:55 - Jaylen's motivation
29:06 - Jayson's handling of situation
32:28 - Jaylen's outspoken nature
35:21 - WNBA season update
37:24 - Ownership dynamics discussion
39:01 - Wyc's family trust revelation
44:06 - Stadium change
45:54 - Potential new Arena locations
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Visit https://factormeals.com/NEWSFEED50 to get 50% off your first box! Factor is America’s #1 Ready-To-Eat Meal Kit, can help you fuel up fast with ready-to-eat meals delivered straight to your door.
The podcast delves into the intricacies of player dynamics, ownership dynamics within the Celtics organization, and the upcoming Summer League in Vegas, where young talents like Jaden Springer and Drew Peterson aim to shine. Stay tuned for insights on the Celtics' prospects, the anticipation of the upcoming season, and the broader landscape of competitive basketball.
Gary Washburn is a Senior NBA Writer for The Boston Globe. Gary joins the program to chat about Jaylen Brown's comments against Team USA, who his biggest beef should be with, and what to interpret about the sale of the Boston Celtics. Twitter: @gwashburnglobe
0:00 - Intro
1:24 - Offseason Updates Recap
3:43 - Jaylen Brown's Team USA Issue
8:00 - Selection Process Concerns
10:07 - Team USA Opportunity
17:34 - Booker's scoring prowess
20:16 - Kawhi's questionable selection
24:07 - Jaylen's overlooked contributions
26:55 - Jaylen's motivation
29:06 - Jayson's handling of situation
32:28 - Jaylen's outspoken nature
35:21 - WNBA season update
37:24 - Ownership dynamics discussion
39:01 - Wyc's family trust revelation
44:06 - Stadium change
45:54 - Potential new Arena locations
CLNS Media is Powered by:
Prize Picks - PrizePicks.com/CLNS
Download the app today and use code CLNS for a first deposit match up to $100!
Gametime - https://gametime.co
Take the guesswork out of buying NBA tickets with Gametime. Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code CLNS for $20 off your first purchase. Download Gametime today. Last minute tickets. Lowest Price. Guaranteed. Terms apply.
Elevate your style game on and off the course with the PXG Spring Summer 2024 collection. Head over to https://PXG.com/GARDENREPORT and save 10% on all apparel.
Nutrafol Men! Take the first step to visibly thicker, healthier hair. For a limited time, Nutrafol is offering our listeners ten dollars off your first month’s subscription and free shipping when you go to https://Nutrafol.com/MEN and enter the promo code GARDEN!
With HelloFresh, you get farm-fresh, pre-portioned ingredients and seasonal recipes delivered right to your doorstep. Go to https://HelloFresh.com/CLNSFREE and use code CLNSFREE for FREE breakfast for life! One breakfast item per box while subscription is active. That’s free breakfast for life at HelloFresh.com/CLNSFREE with code CLNSFREE!
Visit https://factormeals.com/NEWSFEED50 to get 50% off your first box! Factor is America’s #1 Ready-To-Eat Meal Kit, can help you fuel up fast with ready-to-eat meals delivered straight to your door.
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SportsTranscript
00:00Celtic Speed is brought to you by Price Picks and the Game Time app.
00:07Welcome in everyone. New Celtic Speed and not much going on since I was last with you.
00:14Evan Valenti, he tackled the show last week, so I'm thrilled to be back here.
00:19I guess we have a little bit of catching up to do between, let's see, since we were last on,
00:24we had Matt Perrault with us and we were, you know, really breaking down the draft picks
00:30and what Boston did, Baylor, Shireman, all of that.
00:33And since then, let's see, record-setting deal as expected for Dwight.
00:40Dwight gets his huge contract extension, so he's on the books.
00:43Summer League is upon us. Our guest Gary Washburn, who we'll welcome in just a second,
00:47is joining us from Las Vegas, getting ready for all of the action there.
00:52What else? What else? Oh, Jalen Brown hates everybody and the Celtics are for sale.
01:00So if I look like I've got bedhead or something like that, it's actually just me pulling my hair out
01:07with what has been happening since this team locked in Banner 18.
01:12So welcome again. Thank you everyone for joining us. Rate, review, all that good stuff.
01:17Subscribe, most importantly, to the Celtics Beat Podcast.
01:20Just another day at work, huh, Gary?
01:25Yeah, it's been a eventful offseason already, so a lot going on.
01:31But the season never stops. It never, you know, Vegas is a city that never sleeps
01:40and the NBA is a season that never stops.
01:43And yeah, like the sale of the team and now the whole Team USA stuff
01:48and the extensions and all that. It's a lot.
01:52You hope things calm down, but as of now, they're not.
01:55So we'll see what happens over the next few weeks.
01:59So I don't think we need to really spend time on Jason Tatum's new contract
02:04that was expected and congrats to him earned.
02:07I don't even think really we need to break down Derek White's because, you know,
02:11that's what everyone has been clamoring for and he got his payday.
02:14And so this core that this team has, again, Tatum, Brown, White, Holiday, Porzingis,
02:21even Pritchard, Hauser is potentially going to get paid.
02:25Obviously, Al Horford is not retiring just yet. He's going to come back.
02:29This team is fully in run it back mode, potentially for multiple seasons.
02:33They're all eyes now. We've been so used to for 16 years saying Banner 18, Banner 18,
02:38Banner 18. We're going to get used to saying Banner 19 now,
02:41because that is obviously what this team is chasing.
02:43What is at stake? But the big stories, the two really huge stories,
02:48obviously the sale, which I know you have written about, Gary,
02:51in the Boston Globe and online Boston dot Boston Globe dot com.
02:55And also, of course, all the Team USA stuff.
02:57Derek White added to Team USA gets that final spot after Kawhi Leonard bowed out.
03:02And it was Derek White going, not Jalen Brown, a champion like White,
03:06but NBA finals, MVP, Eastern Conference finals, MVP.
03:10Derek White doesn't have those. Grant Hill coming out talking about how it's about fit
03:14and Jalen saying that he believes, you know, in cryptic tweet after cryptic tweet
03:20that this is a Nike thing. He has been critical of Nike in the past.
03:24Team USA very much a Nike brand, that this is Nike alienating Jalen Brown,
03:29that this is, you know, Stephen A. Smith is taking his victory laugh
03:34about how Jalen Brown is not liked and is not marketable.
03:38And those are among the reasons that Derek White is there.
03:41So honestly, Gary, where do you want to start?
03:44You want to start Jalen Team USA or you want to start with the sale?
03:48Oh, I think the sales are more boring, but.
03:51All right, well, let's let's let's start. Let's start Jalen then.
03:54So there are different angles to this.
03:57Obviously, there have been people sort of, you know,
04:01deciding how they want to craft the conversation.
04:03Is it, you know, is Jalen being a bad teammate in his, you know, really?
04:10And I wouldn't say I think this is what it is.
04:13OK, so start there. Yeah.
04:16I don't think Jason Jalen has a problem with Derek White making the team.
04:19I think Jalen has a problem with the process that the players were chosen.
04:23I think he has more of a problem with Devin Booker.
04:26He has more of a problem with Tyrese Halliburton guys.
04:29He feels like he has accomplished more in this league.
04:33And remember, Devin Booker also made the all NBA team over Jalen.
04:38And and I do agree with that. I think he's got a legitimate gripe.
04:42I like Devin Booker. Devin Booker can put the ball in the hole.
04:45But what else is Devin Booker do? He doesn't really.
04:49He's not a plus defender. Phoenix was a succeed in this season.
04:54One of the more disappointing teams in the league that got swept out of the playoffs.
04:58Jalen wins Eastern Congress final MVP, NBA finals MVP.
05:02They can't get a sniff. But Booker's an automatic like punched.
05:05You know, his ticket is punched for the Olympic team.
05:08Halliburton, a rising star, you know, a solid player, but also coming off an injury
05:16during the Indiana during the Celtics series.
05:19A guy who hasn't accomplished nearly as much as Jalen.
05:22His ticket is punched. I think that that Jalen has an issue with the selection process.
05:27As a whole, then a player of Jalen's same position, you could say Jalen is a younger Kawhi.
05:35You know, that's that's asking a lot. Kawhi is a top 75 player.
05:39Then that spot opens and Derek White automatically gets the call.
05:43And Jalen didn't even get a text message. So, yeah, I do think he has a legitimate gripe here.
05:49I don't think it's about Derek White. I think it's about the entire process where there was no tryouts.
05:55Grant Hill just pick and chose the guys that he wanted. And it's great.
05:59He wants Jason. That's Duke. I mean, I can see Jalen. Oh, that's Duke stuff.
06:03And obviously, Jason's an Olympian. Jason's an automatic on the team.
06:07So was LeBron. So was Steph. So was Joel Embiid.
06:11If those guys want to play Olympic and Durant, those guys want to play Olympic basketball,
06:15you're going to put them on the team. So it limits the number of spots.
06:19But then, you know, Drew Holiday, obviously a mainstay, a guy who came off the,
06:23you know, plane from Milwaukee after winning a title in 21 and helping the team USA to gold immediately.
06:30Remember, he wasn't there when they lost that game to France.
06:33He comes and they go undefeated the rest of the way.
06:35So he's a guy who cemented on that team.
06:39But some of the other decisions I think Jalen had a problem with,
06:42especially the one I will just point to the Devin Booker and to Tyrese Halliburton.
06:48And I'm not saying, you know, he's got a beef with those guys.
06:51But if you're looking at Booker, Booker averaged 27 points a game.
06:56He shot 49 percent from the field. But what else?
06:59Like what? Why is I think he asked, he asked, why is Devin Booker this staple on the team USA?
07:07Why does he make all NBA over B? Like, I think that's what Jalen's asking.
07:11And then you throw in the Nike situation.
07:14Is Nike fueling the choice of the team? Jalen is a shoe free agent.
07:19He does not wear Nike. He only wears Nike. He only wears Kobe's.
07:23He'll wear Nike's. He'll wear Kobe's. That's it.
07:26He has an issue with Nike over them dropping Kyrie Irving a few years ago, things like that.
07:33So, of course, this thing is political. Of course.
07:36I mean, it's been like that.
07:38Look at look at the 2016 team with the women's side where Candice Parker, I think, came off WNBA MVP, won a title.
07:47Gino didn't Gino didn't choose her for for the national team in the Olympic team in Rio.
07:53People still ask about that. This thing is political.
07:56I mean, and for Grant Hill, well, you know, we know it's matchups and all that.
08:01You know, OK, great. And Derek White's a great fit.
08:05He's not going to complain about playing time. He's not going to pout.
08:08I remember seeing guys like Jimmy Butler and Draymond Green in the last Olympics.
08:13I think it was a Rio Olympics kind of Jimmy Butler was just kind of not engaged because he wasn't playing much.
08:19He was that 10th or 11th guy. And that that's that happens.
08:23You know, some of these guys have big egos.
08:25Jalen has an ego is just as much as anybody else does.
08:29But I think he's more upset with the selection process.
08:33There were no tryouts. There were no chance for guys to make an impression one on one.
08:39You know, let him hoop to get his spot as opposed to, hey, Devin Booker.
08:43Hey, Tyrese Halliburton. Like, I think he's asking, well, why Halliburton?
08:48Like, you know, over Dane over like is because he's a rising, you know, like some of the some of the decisions on this team.
08:56Bam Adebayo was not good in Tokyo.
09:01He was not good in Tokyo on that team.
09:05He automatically got it like, you know, I'm not saying nothing against Bam. Bam might be great this time.
09:10He's a he's one of the league's top big men.
09:13But I think Jalen definitely has an issue with the selection process.
09:19He feels like he's being slighted once again.
09:22He looks at all NBA team. He looks at all these things, these awards and all that.
09:27And he's like, what have I done? And it's probably because he's been vocal.
09:32It is political without question.
09:35And listen, I see, you know, I see political decisions being made at the youth sports level in my town.
09:41So I'm certainly not sitting here and doubting that it happens at the Team USA level.
09:45I completely agree with everything that you just said, Gary.
09:48But is Jalen I sort of going going about his frustration in the right way to where, you know, we have his tweets, the cryptic tweets.
09:56He probably needs to have a conversation with Derek White eventually.
09:59It puts Jason Tatum in a tough position. But really, I am.
10:03I think Jalen had been waiting for this call, the opportunity to play for Team USA.
10:08He played for the 19 team and nobody was good in the 19 world.
10:12They finished seven like that team. Just a team was not good.
10:17Jason got hurt. You know, it was Kimba. It was Marcus.
10:23A lot of other guys, they just underachieved. That was not a good run.
10:27An impression. But that was also five years ago.
10:30So I just think Jalen has a problem with the process.
10:33I think he looks at certain guys in the league who have been handed or gifted all star status.
10:39And he's thinking to himself, why not? What's wrong with me? What what have I done?
10:44And then he's coming off NBA Finals MVP.
10:48Shut down defense on Luca. So you're telling me I'm not a good defender now.
10:52OK, you're telling me Devin Booker is a better fit or like nothing against Devin Booker.
10:58But I think that's the problem. That's the guy he's probably pointing to and saying,
11:03how come they're about the same age, came in the league around the same time?
11:08How come he's locked in without question?
11:13And I'm on the I'm on the I'm on the window.
11:16I'm I'm steaming up the window outside the candy store because I can't, you know, like I can't get.
11:23I can't even get in. And I just think that that's what his issue is.
11:28And to me, I do agree with some of that. Now, his methods, the cryptic tweets.
11:35Yeah. Could be handled better. Does he need to have conversations with Jason?
11:39And probably in there to make it say, hey, man, it's not personal. I just don't understand it.
11:44I think. And who knows? They might have already had those conversations.
11:49But I do think he's got a legitimate right. We'll get right back to the show,
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14:05Yeah, I think he's looking for a little validation here.
14:07You know, it's like, hey, like one of the things that I really enjoyed was when he was awarded the NBA Finals MVP trophy.
14:15He looked legitimately shocked that he got this award.
14:19And then you can argue over who was supposed to I mean, who I don't really care at this point.
14:24He got the award. It was given to him.
14:26And he looked legitimately thrilled, shocked that he was given this award.
14:30And then to back up what you said, I'm looking at guys and I'm not trying to clown on like anybody.
14:35But, you know, it's a young guy. He's great.
14:39It's not great. Of course, there's all over stuff today that, you know, is the guy.
14:44I'm not even have those conversations. But it's young. He's 22 years old.
14:47He'll he's going to be pretty great. But is it too early for him?
14:51You know, Devin Booker got to the finals one time and last year was a giant disappointment.
14:56And he just beat Tyrese Halliburton in a series.
14:58Now Tyrese to play the whole time. I get his frustration.
15:02It seems like he's always looking for that validation and just never feeling sort of contempt enough.
15:07Like he's talked about like, I know I'm not going to get what I deserve in terms of the awards and things.
15:12He's talked about that, but it feels like this is a bigger point of contention for him.
15:17And especially when you look at when Tatum came back from the last Olympics with a gold medal in his hand,
15:23he let Jalen Brown kind of celebrate with us that famous, you know, that famous photo, I think,
15:27at a nightclub where Tatum's with him and Jalen's got the medal in his hand.
15:31He's thrilled as he could be for his teammate. I feel his frustration.
15:36And I don't even have a problem them being vocal about it.
15:38Yeah, sure. It puts Tatum in an awkward situation and it puts Derek White in an awkward situation.
15:43But at the same time, it's like, is he not one of the best 15 guys in the NBA this game?
15:49If he if he is, he deserves to be on that team like he does.
15:52He deserves to be there. He deserves to have all the stuff that's supposed to go along with being a superstar in the NBA.
15:57So I don't have any problem with any any of the way that he's handled this.
16:00He's allowed to speak his mind. He's allowed to have questions about things.
16:04And I think it's a little unfair that he's on the team. I fully back him on this.
16:09And when you look at this Team USA team, you have certain guys that do certain roles.
16:15But Gary, wouldn't you want a guy that's like versatile, can play up, can play down in terms of offense and defense?
16:22I mean, I don't want him and Derek, to be honest. Like, I think Derek fills a great role defensively.
16:27And Derek can score and Derek can block shots and Derek can run the floor.
16:31And he's not going to complain when he doesn't play. And it could be a chemistry thing.
16:35But it's the decisions were hard, much more difficult than years past, because you had LeBron coming back.
16:43You had Katie who's like, OK, I'll go one more run.
16:46And then you had Curry who's never been on an Olympic team saying, yeah, I want to try.
16:50So you've got three players who are over 35 and over on this team, which is rare.
16:55And then you've got Embiid who just decides he's got his citizenship.
17:00Now he wants such four spots that are locked. OK, so now you talk about eight spots.
17:06And that's where I think Jalen feels like, you know, Tatum. OK, so that's seven spots.
17:10You want to put him in there. Holiday. Now that's six spots.
17:14You know, that's the thing. So now you're down to six spots.
17:19And Ant-Man, I think Ant-Man is a rising star.
17:23I think they want him to be the face of the league. And I think this is kind of like a hint.
17:27Like, OK, Ant, like this is your shot. Here you go.
17:31I just think, as I've repeated, it is Halliburton and it is Devin Booker.
17:36I think he's looking like, what what do I need to do? What has Halliburton done?
17:40And they have different positions. He's a point guard. What's Halliburton done?
17:44Or what's Devin Booker? What's Devin Booker done besides score?
17:48OK, besides score the ball. Prolific score.
17:53He's going to have his number retired in Phoenix. Great.
17:57Hasn't won a title. Lost in the first round. Got swept.
18:01Like with that big three with Durant. Like so you've got two members.
18:06You got two members of the Phoenix Suns on this team. And, you know, team that lost in the first.
18:11Like some of us. And then you got Grant Hill who might have something.
18:16It might be personal. I'm not talking about he doesn't like Jalen. It might just be like, I don't think he's going to be a good fit.
18:21Chemistry wise, I don't we don't need someone in Paris speaking
18:26on all these political issues and keeping it real and talking about Thomas
18:31and the situation in Palestine. Like it could be that, too,
18:36where it's just like we just need ballplayers. And Derek, you know, Derek's a good guy.
18:41Derek is a all shucks kind of guy. Jalen's not an all shucks kind of guy.
18:45And it could be. I do think there's something inside.
18:50Jalen's membership is defensive Kyrie Irving
18:55is embrace of the Muslim religion. I think there's a lot of things
19:00on this on this thing that's not necessarily hoop that has kept Jalen
19:05off his team. And I also think it is some kind of like
19:10you don't even let him try out. You don't have a camp or you don't even call Jalen.
19:14Like to me, I think he's got a gripe. I think legitimately.
19:18And I said that Devin Booker and I like Devin Booker. But I don't know.
19:22You tell me, what does he bring to the table besides scoring?
19:27You know. Does he defend well? Does he rebound?
19:31He shoots very good from the field. He's almost a 50 percent shooter
19:36and he can score. We all know that. How did that work out this year in Phoenix?
19:41It was an abject failure as a disaster. We all know that.
19:46And so you just hand him a spot and Jalen's like and then
19:51Kawhi and I'm sure he's upset. Like you put Kawhi on this team
19:56and from the jump, Kawhi misses most of the playoff series with Dallas
20:01and you just give him a spot to know when he's not healthy.
20:06Jalen's like, OK, like if Kawhi is 100 percent in and healthy,
20:11that's a different story. You put a injured Kawhi in here over me
20:16and then you take him out and you don't even call me up the replacer.
20:21I think he's got a gripe. The Kawhi thing is weird. What was going on there?
20:26They knew he's not healthy. He's going to come back from missing the playoffs
20:31in late April, early May and come back, what,
20:37six weeks, eight weeks later and be 100 percent and play
20:42and all these like, no, everybody knew. Like, why is he here?
20:46Not talent wise, but we all know Kawhi's not healthy.
20:51And so what happened? That's Grant Hill. What is he doing?
20:57Now, I think Grant Hill's a respectable guy, what, you know,
21:02hall of famer, a guy, you know, but it's getting it's getting weird.
21:07And I just think Jalen notices that and says like, hey, I've got much respect
21:12for Kawhi. Kawhi's a hall of famer. First ballot. He's a great player,
21:17but we all know his injury history and you just give him a spot. And so.
21:23I think, but I also think it's political. I also think it's, you know,
21:28Jalen's going to get on this international stage. You don't know what he's going to say.
21:33It's a lot. Yeah, I mean, I think there's a lot here, obviously,
21:38especially when some people like to look at Jalen Brown as either Kawhi 2.0
21:43or poor man's Kawhi or whoever that, you know, when when you're looking fit for fit,
21:46OK, you're you're getting rid of Kawhi or he's bowing out.
21:49Why wouldn't you go with a guy who has a very similar skill set in Jalen Brown?
21:53And so I get everything that we've been talking about in terms of why he's pissed
21:58and he should be pissed. I think this conversation is completely different.
22:03Maybe not on the Stephen a level with the little few that those two have going on.
22:07But in terms of the like Richard White, Derrick's dad, you know,
22:11tweeting at the end of the day after those Jalen cryptic tweets a couple of days ago,
22:15like, you know, rough day on Twitter on this app or whatever,
22:18like let's all try and be better tomorrow. I think it just becomes awkward.
22:22When he's reacting the way that he is reacting publicly after his teammate was selected,
22:28as opposed to, you know, player X on another team entirely.
22:33And another part that we didn't even offer. I do think it's awkward,
22:36but I also think he probably felt like, let's be honest, Kawhi.
22:41What was it like the Kawhi stuff broke at like 10 o'clock in the morning
22:46and Derrick was on the team by 1 p.m. Right.
22:49So, like, was there any calls? Was there a Zoom call? Was there a text message?
22:55Was there any consideration at all? But we knew Derrick White was a replacement weeks ago.
23:00They had already it's out that Derrick White was going to be the replacement.
23:04I think Jalen's asking why.
23:07And I think Jalen's asking why wouldn't I chosen over Kawhi?
23:11If Kawhi, we all know and we all knew the chance to Kawhi making it through this thing healthy.
23:19Was slim to none. Everybody knew that.
23:23He's coming off an injury and whatever a mysterious knee injury that everybody watched.
23:27You know, like we all knew is Kawhi really going to play here?
23:31You know, is he going to go through all this, the ups and downs and his physical practices
23:37and the games against the USA Select team?
23:40So, yeah, I think it's awkward, but I think he's, you know, I don't know.
23:46Like, I think he obviously needs to have a conversation with Derrick White.
23:50To say, Derrick, it's not personal. I'm just bad about the process.
23:54I don't think, oh, it's going to affect chemistry now.
23:56They're going to be all mad at each other. They're not going to stop them from repeating.
24:00No, but I do think Jalen is just like saying to himself, once again, I can't get the respect I deserve.
24:08I've been in the league eight years. Three all-star team with two, three all-star teams.
24:13All-NBA a couple of years ago. Highest paid player in the league.
24:16I back it up this year. Everybody talked about I can't take care of the ball.
24:21My decision making. I can't go left. All this stuff.
24:25He shuts it down. Shuts, you know, good defense on Luka.
24:29Wins Easter Conference. That block on, saved them in the series.
24:34Hit that three in game one. Scored 40 in game two.
24:38That block on Nimhard. He basically won them, although Jason was good too.
24:43The Indiana series. Come back. Do it again.
24:49They didn't stop Luka, but made things difficult on Luka.
24:53Where Luka was not that 35 and 18 assists and 12 rebounds.
24:59He wasn't that guy. And he still can't get a call.
25:04Like, I think he's got it right. He's got a point.
25:09It's awkward. Derrick, I don't think will take it personally.
25:14You know, Derrick's a good guy, and I'm sure they'll have a conversation about it.
25:18But I just think Jalen's tired of the system.
25:21This system that says you have to be a Nike person. You have to cooperate.
25:27And now, Curry's not Nike. Neither is Joel Embiid.
25:32And Ant-Man's Adidas. So, it's not necessarily that.
25:36But there's somebody or something telling Grant Hill, stay away from this guy.
25:42That's what I believe.
25:44Yeah, I mean, look. Derrick's the ultimate underdog story.
25:51He's your cousin from Boston. He's the Celtics or the Balls hat when he announces his new contract.
25:56He's everything that Luke Cornett wants to be at the highest of NBA levels.
26:01You know, in a great, obviously very well-paid package at this point in time.
26:06I don't think they're going to have an issue. I agree with you.
26:09I guess, rather than going in circles on this conversation,
26:12if we're projecting this ahead from a Celtics fan standpoint,
26:16so certainly not Jalen's standpoint, but a Celtics fan standpoint,
26:19could some of this stuff be good for the team?
26:22Like, this is obviously going to create yet another chip on Jalen's shoulder.
26:26You know, Jason Tatum, and I'm not saying at all that he wasn't happy for Jalen getting those two MVP awards,
26:32but, you know, him not winning either of those when he obviously had a case in both,
26:37you know, another little chip on his shoulder, you know, going into next year.
26:42The fact that this team, some people are already going to be a little, not doubt them,
26:47they're the championship favorites, but a little skeptical.
26:49Can they repeat? What are they going to look like when there's no Chris D'Asporzingas for half the year, probably?
26:55You know, can some of this stuff, in terms of Jalen, Jason,
27:00elevating their games at yet another level, actually be good for this team?
27:05Yeah, I think the motivation will be there, and I think Jalen will prove it on the basketball court,
27:11and so will Jason. I think they'll be fired up and motivated,
27:14and obviously, as we've seen over the last couple of weeks,
27:17teams like the Sixers and the Knicks are coming after them, making these major moves,
27:21Oklahoma City and the West, so I do think that there'll be plenty of motivation,
27:27and I think they'll be fine by the time late September comes and they're getting ready for training camp.
27:31This is July. It's two and a half months away from camp.
27:35This is the hot topic now. Basically, there's nothing going on in sports, like, you know,
27:42whenever it is, when the ESPYs come, we all know that they're just sitting, you know,
27:47in the middle of the summer, there ain't nothing going on.
27:49And congrats to Jalen on his ESPY award, by the way.
27:51Yeah, it was great for him.
27:52Great consolation prize, I'm sure.
27:54Yeah, the All-Star game is coming up.
27:57The Sox are kind of making a run, and we're all going to discuss over the next few weeks
28:04whether they're going to make a move and add to this team,
28:07and then, obviously, in a couple of weeks, training camp opens up,
28:11and we're looking forward to the Jocoby-Preset era.
28:15Like, is that? Hey, that sounds fun.
28:19So, you know, there's not a lot going on right now. There just isn't.
28:24And then the Olympics will take center stage beginning in a couple of weeks,
28:29obviously, when everybody gets to Paris and the tournament begins.
28:34So I just think this is the hot story right now, and I think, you know,
28:38Team USA is going to move on, Jalen is going to have to move on,
28:42and I just think it's a cold, obviously a cold news week,
28:45but I think two and a half months from now, when conversations are had,
28:51I think they'll be fine.
28:54Here's my question. You kind of tapped in on this earlier,
28:57talked about it a little bit earlier.
28:59Obviously, this puts Jason Tatum in a really weird situation
29:02where he has to talk about this publicly.
29:03He did talk about it a little bit yesterday.
29:05How do you think he handled that?
29:07OK. Poorly.
29:09Yes. I think, you know, he was kind of like, oh, well.
29:14And if I'm Jason, I'd probably text Jalen and go, hey, man, you good?
29:17Or something. That might have been what Jason could have done,
29:21but it's not Jason's responsibility to do that.
29:24That's probably what I would have done.
29:26Hey, man, you OK? You know, you should be here.
29:29Just give him some reinforcement.
29:33And, you know, but I think Jason's kind of going, you know,
29:36I think Jason is in the kind of the, hey, I'm happy to be here.
29:41All these dudes that I've dreamed of playing with, LeBron and KD and all,
29:47I'm living the life right now, so I got nothing to be mad about.
29:51So it's hard to ask him, do you think Jalen should be on this team?
29:55And Jason's just happy.
29:58You know, he's coming off the bench.
30:00He's probably one of the better players in the team.
30:02He was very good in the Canada game.
30:05And I don't know if that's Jason's nature to turn around and be like,
30:09well, yeah, Jalen should be, you know, to go at Grant Hill.
30:13Grant Hill's, I'm sure, a role model.
30:16There are a couple ways to do that, though.
30:18Like he did his one-on-one with Malika Andrews the other day,
30:23and she, you know, she put him on the spot.
30:25Fun question said, you know, who, like,
30:27if your Celtics team that just won the championship was going up against
30:31your Team USA right now, who wins?
30:34And, you know,
30:35he answered that the way that every Celtics fan would want him to.
30:38He said, I'm going to roll with the guys that I just played 10 months of
30:41basketball with and, you know, had an incredible year.
30:44Like I take that.
30:45So that's great.
30:46That's obviously a feather in the cap of the hometown team.
30:50I just think like he just,
30:52and he's terrible in these situations, historically,
30:55anytime he has been in these types of situations, he handles it.
30:58I think that you said, okay.
31:00I said poorly.
31:01I think it's okay at best when all he wrote,
31:04like he doesn't have to go at Grant Hill.
31:06He can just say, listen, like Jalen's an incredible player.
31:09He deserves to be here.
31:10So does Derek.
31:11And it's hard.
31:12There are only so many spots.
31:13And, you know, my, like my heart goes out to Jalen.
31:17Yeah.
31:18He didn't go.
31:19Yeah.
31:20Like he could have said like that.
31:22He was just like, yeah.
31:23Like he didn't really say anything.
31:25There's a lot of spots.
31:27A lot of guys.
31:28A lot of guys would like who could be here.
31:30Yeah.
31:31I speak like he, he could have shouted out Jalen a little bit.
31:34And I'm not saying there's friction between them or anything like that.
31:37He just could have handled it a little bit better without being
31:40controversial toward Grant.
31:41I agree.
31:43Or he could privately just send a text to Jalen and go, Hey man, you know,
31:48you didn't, you got done wrong.
31:50I'm with you.
31:51Don't, you know, like support each other in a situation, you know,
31:56and then support Derek too.
31:57Cause Derek's happy to be there.
31:59He's in Colorado at a kid's camp and then suddenly gets the call.
32:03So he's just, he's flying from Colorado.
32:05Now I think he's, you know, probably in Dubai with them.
32:09Within now that I think they just landed there, you know,
32:12for these exhibition games.
32:14So, you know, kudos to Derek.
32:16He deserves it too.
32:17I'm not, there's nothing against Derek White.
32:20I think he's done a great job.
32:22I think he's a great player, but I do think it's pretty evident.
32:26And could Stephen A, like you said, he's taking a victory lap.
32:30It could be something personal about Jalen, perhaps attitude,
32:35perhaps team USA, not wanting to put him on that, on that stage,
32:39that international stage where he can say whatever he wants about whatever
32:43he wants.
32:44You know, I was in Nigeria.
32:46I was in Nigeria.
32:47I was in Japan and Chimizu Metsu,
32:53who played the NBA literally laid for Nigeria,
32:57literally laid out the Nigerian basketball committee for,
33:02for making them fly,
33:04like do a 10 hour layover in Germany to save money.
33:08Like he literally during a press conference in Japan,
33:11laid out the Nigerian basketball committee for basically saving money in
33:16penny pitching for his,
33:19having him sit in the hotel lobby because they couldn't check it.
33:22Like he literally laid them out and it made Nigeria look terrible.
33:27Like you can't, you know,
33:29you sit in these guys to the Olympics and you can't even give them first
33:32class accommodations or just, you're, you know,
33:35you're flying from whatever Lagos,
33:37Nigeria to Japan through Germany with a 10 hour layover or something just
33:42to save money. Like, and he laid it out. Right.
33:45And I always remember that because some of these guys,
33:48when they get on that stage and they know the international media is there
33:52and they're going to speak their mind because they don't care.
33:55And I think Jalen is at that point, like,
33:57I don't care what you think of me, I'm going to speak my mind.
33:59Nothing team USA is probably afraid of that.
34:03You know,
34:04they are probably afraid of you putting a political person,
34:07a person who has been socially active,
34:09a person who has spoken his mind before on that stage where everybody else is
34:14going to be, you know, doing this and Hey,
34:17I love Paris and all that. That's not Jalen.
34:21And I think he understands that and understands that they're,
34:25they're probably afraid of me.
34:28All right. One quick break from the show. We'll get right back to it.
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37:25So while we've got a little bit of time left, uh, you know,
37:27I was talking about this story versus the sale story and you said the,
37:31you know, the sale is, is the more boring story. Uh, you know, I,
37:34I think it's certainly the less salacious story,
37:37but I personally, and easy for me to say,
37:40I'm not the one covering it and writing about it.
37:42Like you are really digging in. I don't find it boring at all because I,
37:46I just think the element of this, of, you know, one,
37:50there's the projecting ahead to the future.
37:52And as the next owners is going to lead to a teardown,
37:54what does this mean in terms of the cap and the team and the future and all
37:57of that stuff versus, you know, this team, uh,
38:00a dedicated fan driven ownership group,
38:03obviously that cares about rings and banners and,
38:06and wants to do this each and every year,
38:08at least that's what we've let been led to believe and sort of the proofs in
38:11the pudding. And, and if wick is staying on as, as, you know,
38:14governor through 2028, there'll be no, uh, quick changes here, but the,
38:18the fascinating thing to me, Gary,
38:20and I don't know if you felt the same way when all of this started to break
38:23is that it is the family trust and,
38:27and they're getting their, you know, Irv grosbeck wick's dad, you know,
38:32the 90 year old Stanford professor is, you know,
38:35getting his, uh, estate in line in the, you know,
38:40for the future here is obviously, uh, you know,
38:42he's only got so many years left, hopefully, uh, you know, quite a few,
38:46but again, he's 90, uh, you know, I, I just think everyone,
38:50I don't know about you again,
38:51who is someone that is in much closer and deeper than like Evan is,
38:55or I am, or our listeners are,
38:57but I had zero idea that this wasn't actually wick's ownership and that
39:04this, this was the families and really his dads.
39:07I didn't even know wick had siblings that were involved in this process.
39:10I thought this was wick's baby. He was the owner or co-owners.
39:14He always likes to say, and governor, obviously. And that, you know,
39:18it really, the, like the interview that you listened to with CNBC the other
39:21day, it, it sounds like he is, you know,
39:25being put in a position by his family where, you know,
39:28this doesn't actually belong to you and we are selling it.
39:31Even if you are unhappy about it, am I reading that wrong?
39:35Or is that how you feel about this?
39:37No, I think that's a correct situation. I think the family, um,
39:41because he has three siblings,
39:43it's going to have to figure out what to do and probably, uh,
39:47Irv Groesbeck is decided to kind of cash out and just split it amongst his
39:53children. You can't just, I mean, I don't,
39:55he's not going to hand the Celtics to wick and go, okay, wick,
39:58you handle everything. So it's, I think it's reluctantly.
40:01And remember, I don't know if wick has children.
40:04The question is whether the Celtics want,
40:06the Groesbecks want to keep this in the family,
40:09like the Roonies or like other family graphs. Yeah.
40:13The crafts where they're like, Hey, hands down.
40:16But we don't see a lot of Groesbecks working in the,
40:20in the, this is not the, the,
40:21the Cowboys where Jerry's like God's son is damn near the general.
40:25Like, you know,
40:26the whole Jones family is working in the organization at high level
40:30positions. You know, we talk about nepotism, you know,
40:33every time you look at the Dallas Cowboys, it's, it's Jerry's, you know,
40:37Jerry's all his whole family, you know, his, you know,
40:41I'm sure his niece and auntie and, and, you know,
40:45and I'm sure his 16 year old nephew is probably director of scouting or
40:49something like that. You know, the whole Jones family,
40:52this is not the case.
40:54So I think it's a situation where they have to,
40:57and then also if you look at the worth of the team,
41:01it will never be higher after winning a championship.
41:04And then you're entering the era of the second apron where the Celtics will
41:09play pay upwards of $200 million in taxes, luxury taxes.
41:13There's a lot. And I think we probably,
41:17and WIC's father probably said, let's break this up and let's, you know,
41:21let's cash out. And, and that's not his decision. Cause obviously I think,
41:25I think people on the inside knew WIC is the face of the organization,
41:29but he's not the money man. It's his father. I think we,
41:33I think a lot of people on the inside have known that like WIC,
41:36WIC's money comes from his father. And that happens a lot.
41:39A lot of these primary guys were front men are not necessarily the money
41:44man. They're just the more,
41:45most charismatic of the ownership group or the one that you know,
41:50we'll pay the money you speak for us. And I think that,
41:53you said at the inside, I think that was publicly a shock.
41:56Yeah, I do think so. I do.
41:59I think it's a family trust issue and I don't think WIC wants to sell the
42:03team. He loves it, but it's also not his decision.
42:07His father is still very much active.
42:09I think he's still professor at Stanford at 89, 90 years old.
42:13So it's not like his dad is losing it or his dad's somehow mentally slipping.
42:18It's just a decision probably with siblings who probably don't want to be
42:22involved in the business. Now, if his four kids all decided, dad,
42:26we want to continue this, then I think we're, it's all good,
42:30but that's probably not the issue. WIC is the only one involved.
42:34So guess where it gets, I'm not saying to me,
42:37it's kind of boring because we don't know what's going to happen.
42:39And we're like, what if some guy comes up, you know,
42:42trillionaire buys the team, like some guy from Saudi Arabia, like, you know,
42:46anything can happen at this point. And, you know,
42:50I do think a certainty is whoever buys this team will want to build a new
42:58arena because that's where the money is. Look, look at Steve Ballmer.
43:03It took him 10 years, but Steve Ballmer is like,
43:07we got to get the hell out of this,
43:08this situation at the Staples center where we're playing Saturday afternoon
43:12games. Cause we're third fiddle to the Lakers and the Kings.
43:15We need our new old spot.
43:17And that's a revenue maker is having your own arena.
43:21So if I'm the new owner of the Celtics,
43:24I'm coming in and saying, where the hell can we build a new arena?
43:27Because as much as TD garden, it's a nice arena.
43:31It's not a bottom 10 arena. It's not a top 10 arena.
43:35It's probably in the middle of the pack in terms of amenities. It was,
43:38it's fine. It is not a, like a band by it's not a, like,
43:43it's not getting New York and it's like, so it's, you guys have been there.
43:46It's a nice arena.
43:47It's been around a long time. So it's yeah.
43:49But it's also 30 years old in a,
43:53in a technical age where that is,
43:56that is like a hundred years old for arenas. I mean, let's,
44:00like the Texas Rangers built a new stadium.
44:04Like how long was there like they're, they're not a globe life anymore.
44:08Right. Like, or whatever that stadium was like,
44:11they literally wasn't wearing it was in a stadium for like 22 years and they
44:15built another one. Like, that's crazy. Like, you know,
44:19like this is what's happening.
44:22And now people are going to look at that new into it arena in LA.
44:26And so the garden is going to be,
44:28become more and more antiquated as years go on.
44:31I think their lease is 10 years. So if I'm the new owner,
44:35I'm coming in saying, where can we build another arena?
44:39And because you're basically handing your money to the Bruins who own the
44:43arena. So that's going to be an interesting aspect.
44:47I don't, I said,
44:48it's boring because now we're talking about family trusts and numbers and
44:54second aprons and all that. Like, I don't think, you know,
44:58to the viewer, to the listeners,
45:00do you young Celtic fans really care about family trusts and all that?
45:05I don't think that, you know,
45:06I think they're like just tell another rich guy to buy the team and pay
45:10everybody so we can win more championships.
45:12I think that's what the fans are saying. Like, no.
45:14Well, unless I say to those fans, Hey, it's John Henry,
45:17which I don't believe it is.
45:19What kind of reputation does he have around here?
45:22You know what I mean?
45:23Just, just don't, you know, I think people are,
45:25I think people are a little, a little bit, you know,
45:27wounded from watching clipped and think, Oh,
45:29don't let some Donald Sterling type come in here and buy this team and cut,
45:34cut costs and make us turn us into the Charlotte Hornets.
45:37I don't think that'll happen.
45:39I think if you're, if you're paying 5 billion for a team,
45:43you gotta have a lot of money. I think, you know, this is not,
45:46you're not doing patchwork stuff. You gotta have,
45:49you gotta have a collateral to spend 5 billion on the Celtics.
45:53So, but if I'm the new owner,
45:55I think the first thing they do is where the hell can we build a new arena?
45:59Whether it be some people, Oh, Somerville, Oh, near the casino.
46:03Can you build a new arena near the waterfront?
46:06Like the, the Warriors owners did where they built Chase Center.
46:10People said there was no way you could build. It was too expensive. Crazy.
46:13They did it. You know, that's the question.
46:17I think once the team is purchased,
46:19where the hell they're going to play for the next 30 years after their
46:24leases.
46:25That's what we need. We need more construction in Boston.
46:28We need more construction in Boston. That's what we really need.
46:31We need a whole new, yeah. Right at the waterfront. I mean,
46:35big dig right to 6.0. That's why, I mean, I think that'd be great,
46:40but you know, to me, that's where the money is.
46:44So that's where the interesting part of this story is,
46:47but like Wicks family trust and you know,
46:52who owns who, what percent? I think that's kind of boring at this point.
46:56We all just know, we all know he's selling a team.
46:59He probably didn't want to sell it to this pal. You can have the capital.
47:05I mean, you can, I mean them in Bain,
47:07Bain capital still has some, some stakeholders in this thing.
47:11Maybe they can really rally a couple.
47:13That's the thing.
47:14You hope Al Yuka can come up with the money or the investors or the
47:18partners.
47:19Now I think who wouldn't want to own the Celtics, right?
47:23There's not a lot of bombers out there,
47:25but there are a couple of eccentric guys out there that just want to own a
47:28ball team and would love it. And you know,
47:31and it's not a moneymaking proposition. It's just not,
47:34it's break even at best, but you're in the spotlight.
47:38So I'm sure another Mark Cuban or another bomber could emerge.
47:43And we don't know who this person is yet, man, woman, whoever it is,
47:47we don't know, but I think that's the fascinating part too.
47:52I mean, since I think that, yeah, I mean, well, no,
47:54since he's in Vegas and we have the summer league sellers coming up here,
47:58what's the, what's the storyline or what player,
48:00or what are you most looking forward to while you're out there?
48:02Besides Bronnie James may be playing for the Lakers at some point.
48:05Oh, well,
48:08it sucks. I mean, this team is pretty, actually pretty good.
48:12Five players last year who actually played in a Celtic uniform.
48:16Jayden Springer, Drew Peterson, JD Davidson,
48:19Namius Keita. And I can't remember the fourth,
48:24the fifth Jordan Walsh, our friend, Jordan Walsh.
48:28And then you got the two draft picks Shireman and Anton Watson.
48:32And then you got the kid,
48:35the son of Ron Harper Jr. And you got Eddie House.
48:39I'm looking forward to seeing him. I'm sure he's going to drop.
48:42I'm sure Eddie will be down here to watch some games and I'm sure that's my
48:46MF and son when he drops some threes and when we win a game or something.
48:52So it sounds like a deep team. It's just, it's just,
48:55you want guys like I need to see honestly about two guys,
49:01Drew Peterson and Jayden Springer. Peterson,
49:04is he a kind of a guy who can eventually maybe replace Sam Hauser and Jayden
49:08Springer? Is there a reason he's occupying a roster?
49:11Is he occupying a roster spot?
49:13And does he have potential to help this team down the road?
49:16I think they need to take a step forward. I think JD Davidson,
49:22you know, it's,
49:23he's one of those cases where he came out of college probably two years too
49:27early.
49:28He's just working himself into being maybe on a fringe of an NBA player.
49:33So he'll get a third chance at a two way contract.
49:35I think he's comfortable in the Celtics system and they want to see him
49:39so we'll see those guys need to be the best players on the floor.
49:42Kata, I don't know how much he'll actually play,
49:45but I do think it's good to see him in the system. And Jordan Walsh,
49:48we'll see it too,
49:49but he's kind of going into the year two of probably a three to four year
49:54kind of development process to see if he'll help in the,
49:58as this team gets older or sorry,
50:01not gets older when guys like Horford and guys leave,
50:05can Walsh be that kind of guy who's ready to step in and play a role maybe in
50:10two years.
50:12Like Gary said, the basketball season, it never stops.
50:15We're going to let him take at least a couple of minute break before he does
50:18whatever he is doing out there and get ready to cover the summer league seas in
50:21Vegas.
50:22But Gary always appreciate when you take some time for us and breaking
50:25everything down, you know,
50:26from the Melrose place like drama that we have involving Jalen Brown to the
50:31sale and everything. I mean,
50:33this Celtics team we should still be basking in a championship instead.
50:36It is just forget it. That doesn't happen. I guess in 2024,
50:40you can get Gary on Twitter at a G Washburn globe.
50:44And of course check out all of his work in the Boston globe, Gary.
50:47Thanks so much.
50:49I also have a, I wanted to plug my book. I have a book called,
50:53coming out called the Boston Celtics and illustrated timeline.
50:57Awesome.
50:58175 moments from the history of the Celtics.
51:00So it's not that it, it, it will, it touches on the championship.
51:03So you're going to get pictures and vignettes about the title team and all
51:08the way in Missoula at all.
51:10So the good times and some of the not so good times of the history of the
51:14franchise detail and all the championships.
51:17So if you don't know a lot about the history of the franchise or guys like
51:21Jojo wide and Dave Callens and Tom Hineson and Lasky and Frank Ramsey,
51:27your only names you've overheard.
51:29We talk about all those pivotal figures in the history of the franchise,
51:34as well as all the stuff all the way until title 18.
51:38So don't, it's going to include all the good stuff. So yeah,
51:43it's on Amazon and it's coming out in a couple of weeks.
51:47Boston sells the illustrated timeline. So thanks for letting me say that.
51:51Without a doubt. No, when it comes out, we'll we'll check it out,
51:54have you back on the show to talk more about it too.
51:56Once we've had the chance to, you know, scroll through it. It's a,
51:59that's awesome. I'm excited. I love these, you know, it's,
52:03I use the word commemorative. That's not the right word,
52:05but these books that, you know,
52:07encapsulate the history of a franchise and not just obviously, I mean,
52:11there are a lot of great books that do a great job on a singular season as
52:15well, especially one that the Celtics, you know,
52:17like the one that Celtics just experienced,
52:19but ones that go all the way back through I'm,
52:22I'm pumped to check that out. So thank you for mentioning that as well.
52:25And yeah, absolutely. Check out Gary's work,
52:28both Boston Globe and search Amazon for the new book and check that out a
52:31couple of weeks for Evan Valenti.
52:33I am Adam from Kauffman and a shout out to the dude who I ran into at the
52:36pool the other day, who turns out as a huge Celtics beat fan.
52:40Love you for listening. Thank you so much. We'll talk to you again real soon.
52:55Bye.