What We've Learned at Patriots Training Camp w/ Mike Giardi | Pats Interference
Boston Sports Journal's Mike Giardi returns to the show to break down Drake Maye's start to training camp and what comes next, Matt Judon's hold-in, possible trade scenarios, how the Patriots will replace Christian Barmore, surprise camp performers, disappointments and more.
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SportsTranscript
00:00:00Okay, it is Wednesday morning, July 31st.
00:00:16We've had about a full week of training camp, and it honestly feels like I've not been behind
00:00:20this microphone for a good, not eight days, but eight weeks, because so much has happened.
00:00:25Before we get to that, I need to get to our guest, who I'll be honest, I usually introduce
00:00:29to the backhand and compliment, some sort of ball-busting, might just take a straight
00:00:33out dig at him, but my guy is launching a new podcast today.
00:00:38He is recording it soon after this, I believe.
00:00:40He's on morning radio now a couple times a week, NBC Sports Boston every Tuesday.
00:00:44He has reported on the league for over 20 years, including a Matt Judon scoop yesterday
00:00:48that they are far, far apart, meaning Judon and the Patriots and the contract extension.
00:00:52And now here he is spending time with us, Mike Giordano.
00:00:56Thank you very much, my good friend, for coming on the podcast.
00:01:00Perfect.
00:01:01Mike Girardi.
00:01:02Yes, yes, all those things.
00:01:04Thank you for having me.
00:01:05It's always a pleasure.
00:01:06You know, very rarely do I say no to you, and usually the only reason I say no to you
00:01:11is, I mean, aside from the fact that I don't like you, is that I'm completely swamped.
00:01:16But you're persuasive, and here I am today.
00:01:18So we'll see.
00:01:19If this one goes badly, I don't know, maybe you won't see me again.
00:01:22Yeah.
00:01:23As they say, they don't make them like the Giordanos.
00:01:25So here we are.
00:01:27Day six of camp was yesterday.
00:01:29It was the second pad of practice.
00:01:31My line this time of year is often the trends will tell us the truth.
00:01:36We don't know anything yet.
00:01:37And of course, we have phrases going around like panic meter or trade them with Matt Judon.
00:01:43And the offense sucks and deja vu and PTSD.
00:01:46And a lot of that is just like reactive, typically negative Boston, let's just, you know, attitudes
00:01:53because we can pin it on Boston sports media, which I think everyone understands is made
00:01:56up of different individuals with different outlooks, but gets broad brushed when the
00:02:00loudest mouths and the biggest names take the same approach every day of where can we
00:02:04tweak this team?
00:02:05And yesterday, because I'm just going to hit this right on the head.
00:02:08The lead topic of Boston sports tonight, which I did with Mike Felger and Michael Holland,
00:02:12you've done before, obviously, was Joe Milton looks better than Drake May.
00:02:16This is sensationalized nonsense.
00:02:19It's courtesy of our friend Ben Bolin, whose nickname is Cholen Bolin.
00:02:22We've got on the shows.
00:02:23I just we can dive into the numbers why it's not true, even though I understand watching
00:02:27how bad Drake has been the last couple of days.
00:02:29Some people might buy this, but it's just it's not true.
00:02:31So take it from here.
00:02:33Yeah.
00:02:34So, look, Joe Milton throws the ball at one speed at all times.
00:02:38So let's just start with that part of his game.
00:02:41And, you know, if you did any research on him before the draft, I was down at the Senior
00:02:45Bowl.
00:02:46You talk to people like six years in college football, he's three years older than Drake
00:02:50May at this point or two and a half, whatever the difference is.
00:02:53So he should be a little bit further along just based on experience and where he's been
00:02:56in college.
00:02:58But one of his big critiques is the ability to process the game.
00:03:04So it's great that you have this physical tool and you're six foot whatever, five, two
00:03:08hundred forty pounds and you look like a great God.
00:03:11But to play the position, you have to be able to process the position.
00:03:15And they're not even really giving him many opportunities to do that.
00:03:18So when he does get out there and he does throw a laser beam, it's like, oh, my goodness.
00:03:22OK, well, he had like four reps.
00:03:24Yeah.
00:03:25But what are we talking about?
00:03:27How many reps are we talking about?
00:03:28Who is he repping against?
00:03:29Which is always a big thing to me.
00:03:30I know you can only play who's in front of you, so you can't give them demerits.
00:03:34But when you start talking about, well, this guy's better than that guy.
00:03:37Well, this guy's thrown against guys are going to be working at Starbucks and Lowe's, you
00:03:41know, three weeks from now.
00:03:42Right.
00:03:43That's just but that's just that's the reality of it.
00:03:46You know, like going to go play football in Canada and be lucky if they make a team there,
00:03:50like that's the reality of it versus, you know, the situation that Drake's in.
00:03:54And look, that's not to defend Drake.
00:03:55And I know we're going to get into it, but like I just it creates because of the powers
00:04:02that be and the people that listen to you mentioned Felger and Holly Felger and Maz
00:04:06on the from two to six is the show that really kind of drives the conversation.
00:04:10We could talk about like trying to be responsible journalists and let's let's give it nuance.
00:04:15That show from two to six has a massive audience.
00:04:17And when they run with something, as they did yesterday with Bolin's headline and his
00:04:23story, then it becomes basically like prevailing opinion for everyone.
00:04:28And that we're all thinking that it's not true that we're not all thinking that as we're
00:04:31sitting here shooting it apart.
00:04:33But it does help influence the people that aren't there or just, you know, worship at
00:04:38their altar, which God bless them.
00:04:39I'm not knocking them that they've made a hell of a living and they're really good at
00:04:42what they do.
00:04:43It's not the full reality of the situation, and it just leads to it creates controversy
00:04:51that shouldn't be there.
00:04:52I mean, maybe controversy is not the right word, but like, oh, my God, is Joe Milton
00:04:56really already better than Drake made?
00:04:58Did they really screw up the third pick?
00:05:00And should they have drafted Joe Walter, Malik neighbors or Mark?
00:05:04Just freaking.
00:05:05Well, I think go back.
00:05:06I think go back to the conversation we had beforehand, too.
00:05:08Like this wasn't going to be some immediate thing for Drake.
00:05:12It was there were things that need to be worked on that are going to continue to have to be
00:05:15worked on.
00:05:17Probably for years.
00:05:18You know, that doesn't mean you can't play before them, but there's things that he's
00:05:21going to have to hone that, you know, quite frankly, someone who's been six years in college
00:05:25is Joe Milton probably shouldn't and won't.
00:05:27Yeah, I don't want to spend any more than two more minutes on this.
00:05:30I say it for the exact reasons you did, and I'm glad you laid it out.
00:05:32It's become a talking point.
00:05:34This is my ability to push back against that, as I did in a block last night, being like
00:05:38if you've actually charted every single rep, who's passing, who's catching, what was the
00:05:43route, who is in defense?
00:05:44Was it the first defense, second, third, fourth string, whatever?
00:05:47You understand this is just not the case.
00:05:49So I say this to everyone to take a breath.
00:05:51It's not to say Drake has been good the last three days.
00:05:54He has not.
00:05:55But over those same last three practices that would drive someone to say that Joe Milton,
00:05:58who's taken fewer than half the reps that Drake May has, but has the same number of
00:06:03interceptions as Drake May, has the same number of sacks in team periods, meaning he has a
00:06:08higher sack rate than Drake May does, and the same number of botched snaps while completing
00:06:12zero passes longer than 10 yards down the football field, it cannot possibly be true
00:06:19then that that quarterback is outperforming Drake May, who granted has been bad, but was
00:06:24also flatly better the first three practices.
00:06:26So that's the case.
00:06:27We'll get into Drake May a little bit later.
00:06:29It's just not true.
00:06:30Can I give you one more on this?
00:06:32Yeah.
00:06:33And everybody took their pants off for it, like fans, even media, and it was a phenomenal
00:06:38play.
00:06:39You're on one today.
00:06:40I love this.
00:06:41Keep going.
00:06:42Was it Friday when Joe Milton, it was Friday or Sunday, the 60-yard bomb to Jay Vaughn
00:06:46Baker, right?
00:06:48It was a sack.
00:06:49Yeah.
00:06:50Yeah.
00:06:51Okay.
00:06:52Yeah.
00:06:53It was a sack.
00:06:54Yeah.
00:06:55Yeah.
00:06:56I don't feel like a lot of the tweets of the people that you at home follow put that in
00:06:59there.
00:07:00So while it was great that the end result was a 60-yard completion, guess what?
00:07:06It never happened.
00:07:07It never happened.
00:07:08And that's part of the difficulty of reporting on camp, right?
00:07:10I will check with you sometimes.
00:07:12We ask on the Hill, what did you see on this?
00:07:14Did so-and-so get to him?
00:07:15Because the players can't contact the quarterback, so sometimes they run straight by them.
00:07:18Other times they stop, go hands up, as like, I got the sack, but I'm not going to break
00:07:21the practice rules of not touching the quarterback.
00:07:24In that instance, Joe Milton stepped through like the Red Sea had parted, and the Red was
00:07:28not his non-contact jersey.
00:07:32It was every other defender who could have grabbed him and thrown him to the ground.
00:07:35That's all that there is.
00:07:36Just relax.
00:07:38The machine is doing its thing.
00:07:40But here we are pushing and fighting against the machine in this little rinky-dink podcast.
00:07:43Now, the way I really wanted to start the show, as you know, when I sent you this rundown
00:07:47yesterday, before I got the rundown, that threw my head into a tizzy briefly.
00:07:51And then we didn't even, I didn't even get to address the Milton stuff.
00:07:54So this is really just pent-up BS me venting out here.
00:07:57Your podcast, you're allowed to let it loose.
00:08:00The question I had for you is this.
00:08:03What is the best thing you've seen at Patriots camp?
00:08:06Tumultuous start overall, but the best thing you've seen through six days.
00:08:14Oh, come on.
00:08:18Mike!
00:08:19You really have, I'm, look, I don't think, I know, I don't think there's one thing that
00:08:26really jumped out to me and has been like, oh yeah, that's great.
00:08:29That looks wonderful.
00:08:30Obviously I think that the overall play of the defense, just the way they look, which,
00:08:36but I, you know, I kind of expected that going in.
00:08:37Okay, let me go first and be a good host and invite you some time.
00:08:40Yeah, go ahead.
00:08:41I don't have a, I do have a play, but it's, you know, I missed this question by the way
00:08:44in the rundown.
00:08:45Did you put this at the top of the rundown?
00:08:46Yeah, it is at the top of the rundown.
00:08:47It's in bold actually.
00:08:48So I'm just going to let you squint there.
00:08:49Oh, God damn it.
00:08:50I looked at, yeah, no, no.
00:08:51Very good job by you.
00:08:52I got every, I got every other one listed except for that one.
00:08:55Keon White.
00:08:56Okay.
00:08:57It's not a play.
00:08:58It's not a day.
00:08:59It's not a minute.
00:09:00It's a player.
00:09:01This dude is ready to destroy every single thing in front of him.
00:09:04I'm talking about that as an edge setter against the run.
00:09:06I'm talking about as a pass rusher on the interior.
00:09:08I'm talking about one-on-ones where you might as well just exit, stage left.
00:09:13Anytime you're across from him, whether you're a center, a guard, a tackle, because he is
00:09:17ready for his breakout year and it's early and we can do the small sample size thing.
00:09:22I am here to declare Keon White breakout year two is coming.
00:09:27In fact, it's already started.
00:09:28He's the only player so far on defense who has multiple sacks, multiple run stuffs, and
00:09:34has looked as good in one-on-ones as he has granted offensive line.
00:09:38Not very good, but he's also the only player doing this and multiple spots along the defensive
00:09:43line.
00:09:44He is the best thing I've seen in camp and I was hesitant about crowning him year two,
00:09:48even with drive Mayo saying something in the spring and everyone going, Oh, you're too
00:09:51late for me.
00:09:52Check around.
00:09:53Pick it.
00:09:54He got it.
00:09:55What I did say is we'll know early, right?
00:09:56He's an older prospect.
00:09:57His technical development is pretty much done, but he can refine his technique as a guy converted
00:10:01from tight end to defensive line midway through college and that development, that piece is
00:10:07taking off now.
00:10:08And I absolutely love watching it every day.
00:10:11Well in my defense, though, I did miss the question because I was bleary eyed when I
00:10:16looked at it.
00:10:17Uh, am I two up?
00:10:19He's one of my two.
00:10:20So we're going to get to that.
00:10:21But like he was the first name that was a no doubt, no brainer, like love everything
00:10:26that he's doing.
00:10:27But I'll, you know, I will stick with my original answer just in general.
00:10:30Like the defense is good.
00:10:33We knew the defense was good.
00:10:34The defense has had largely dominated the first six sessions of practice and as it should
00:10:41be, they're going to, they're going to, again, as last year, they're going to need to be
00:10:45as good as humanly possible because I think points are going to be, uh, maybe not as difficult
00:10:51to score as last year.
00:10:52Certainly not as difficult to score last year.
00:10:53I hope not as difficult to score as last year, but, uh, they're going to be offensively
00:10:57challenged and the defense is going to have to carry the better portion of the day for
00:11:0217 regular season.
00:11:04When you crossed your fingers there with both hands for the YouTube audience and it looked
00:11:07like a couple of middle fingers.
00:11:09Did you do that on purpose?
00:11:10What was it?
00:11:11It's just disgusting.
00:11:12Oh yeah, I did.
00:11:13That did look like that.
00:11:14Pretty dangerous.
00:11:15Wow.
00:11:16No, that's that right there.
00:11:17See that?
00:11:18See if I did that as opposed to this.
00:11:20I need you on Wednesdays now.
00:11:23And those are for you.
00:11:24Can you stop sending, flying those birds in my direction, please?
00:11:29We do need you every Wednesday though, because you did radio yesterday, you did TV, you covered
00:11:33practice, you wrote, you reported, and you are as burnt as your face looks.
00:11:36And so this is just, this is great.
00:11:40It's raw Giardi.
00:11:41Yeah.
00:11:42Speaking of raw, I'm just going to let that hang there for a second, uh, Matt Duda, his
00:11:48feelings right now are at the forefront of the news, sticking with the defense, right?
00:11:53Keone White's been great.
00:11:54He's on the edge sometime.
00:11:55Maybe he started opposite Judon early in camp, but he's getting more run, more opportunities,
00:12:00better looks because Judon's gone.
00:12:03The big news of camp, if you had to say, Hey, what's been going on?
00:12:06Well, we had a player who was a full participant for four days and gave one of the more candid
00:12:10open press conferences we've ever had from a Patriots player in day one.
00:12:14And in that press conference, he says, I will practice.
00:12:16I've got to play under this contract.
00:12:18I signed it.
00:12:19And that's what it is.
00:12:20But please go talk to Elliot Wolf Macro.
00:12:21If you can't tell him to give me a little bit more money.
00:12:24Well then on day five, when the Patriots put on the pads for the first time a year after
00:12:28he never participated in padded practices, and I think that detail is being lost when
00:12:32he went head to head with Belichick and eventually got his new deal, revised deal, but never
00:12:36participated in padded practices on day five, the pads come on and Matt Judon strolls on
00:12:40and street close and then talks with Gerard Mayo after sitting on a trash can and some
00:12:45mats as they're going through positional drills and leaves after about a minute.
00:12:49Thirty minutes later, he does the exact same thing that he had asked the media to do, goes
00:12:53and talks to Macro and Elliot Wolf and confronts him with these wild gestures and is talking
00:12:58more directly to Groh.
00:12:59And after 10 more minutes, leaves entirely.
00:13:02Was not there yesterday, meaning Tuesday, another full padded practice.
00:13:05Today's an off day.
00:13:06You have since reported that morning preceding the conversation.
00:13:09The Patriots were far, far, far apart with Judon.
00:13:13So I ask you this.
00:13:14A, do you have an update?
00:13:15If not, how bad is this situation, really?
00:13:19The optics in the media stuff has already taken off.
00:13:21But with the actual relationship part of this, how much is the damage and is there anything
00:13:26new?
00:13:27Well, let's just start with the idea that there's been some pushback from the Patriots
00:13:32that the media and the fans have pushed the animosity part of this conversation a little
00:13:39too far and that it's not nearly as bad as you think it is, to which I would tell you
00:13:45I didn't write about it because I believe it's just strictly damage control.
00:13:48Like it was an embarrassing moment for a lot of parties caused by Matt Judon, right?
00:13:54Like let's put front and center.
00:13:56Matt Judon decided to behave in a manner that five days ago he said he wasn't going to behave
00:14:01and he put a rookie head coach and a rookie GM in the spotlight.
00:14:07He did it publicly, which, you know, I don't care who you are.
00:14:14There's an element of being shown up there that doesn't sit well with anyone.
00:14:19So while again, they're trying to, as I mentioned, they're trying to push back on it.
00:14:22I would tell you that if you really meant it or you really wanted to put a real voice
00:14:26to it, then Gerard May or Elliott Wolf would have been available yesterday or today on
00:14:31the off day to say, hey, look, no, no, no, no.
00:14:33You guys are getting this all wrong.
00:14:35It was just, you know, a passionate conversation, but, you know, no harm, no foul.
00:14:39And we're just trying to work through things and we understand his frustration and we still
00:14:43want him on the team.
00:14:44We didn't, we didn't get any of that, right?
00:14:46So the last 24 hours, they just, they just let it fester.
00:14:50He's not at practice.
00:14:51He's not at the facility.
00:14:52Is it him who didn't show up or is it them who told him to stay away?
00:14:55Nobody wants to comment on the, on the, on, on what side that is.
00:15:00So they're letting him sort of for a better, they're letting him kind of rot out there
00:15:04a little bit like, okay, you did what you did and while we'll push back gently, we're
00:15:08not going to put a public face to this.
00:15:10We're just going to let it sit.
00:15:11So look, unless something happened last night that I don't know about in terms of negotiations,
00:15:20the chasm between the two is so wide that I don't even know how you bridge that gap.
00:15:27Like there's no gap to be bridged because it's so wide.
00:15:30So the question is in the, is cooler heads prevail.
00:15:34Can you reach Judon or his agent and say, look, man, we'll give him a bump for this
00:15:38year.
00:15:39He's free to go next year.
00:15:40Like let's get them to 15, $16 million incentives that maybe can kick them up to 20 because
00:15:45as Judon has pointed out on some guys podcasts, who did an awesome job, by the way, I forget
00:15:50the name of the podcast that he knows their salary cap figure.
00:15:54Like he's, he, this has sort of been to me, a calculated approach, Oh, I'm going to be
00:16:00the good guy.
00:16:01Oh, here comes the podcast where I'm talking about their salary cap number and why aren't
00:16:04they going to give it to me?
00:16:05And I'm smart.
00:16:06I gave him the, I got, I presented the numbers to them.
00:16:09I wrote up my, my agent says I could be a, an agent myself one day.
00:16:13And then to this point where on the first day of practice, he's one of the first people
00:16:17up the stairs and he's wearing flip-flops, sweatpants, sweatshirt, baseball hat, phone
00:16:23in hand.
00:16:24I mean the phone in hand, just for people like that's not allowed.
00:16:27You're not, players are not supposed to be bringing their devices up there.
00:16:31You remember, cause this is my first year in the beat 2018, Kenny Britt coming up.
00:16:37Yes.
00:16:38Yes.
00:16:39When you, when you're leaving the stadium, the way the players do there, there's basically
00:16:42coming up a hill, right?
00:16:44In the far corner of the hill is the hill that everyone knows where they run sprints
00:16:47after practice and, you know, put it in the bank and conditioning yada, yada on the near
00:16:51side.
00:16:52That's adjacent to the actual stadium is a super sized set of stairs that they walk up
00:16:56in their cleats.
00:16:57And right next to that is a VIP section, often with player families and yada, yada.
00:17:00And this will be quicker than it sounds.
00:17:03Kenny Britt comes up the stairs one day, instead of continuing up the stairs and onto the fields
00:17:08that are right in front of him, he takes a quick right, goes up to the VIP section and
00:17:13just kind of chills and has his phone practice is going on.
00:17:16This is my second week covering the Patriots who were dealing with all of the Gronk stuff
00:17:20being traded, coming off the Eagles, Super Bowl, yada, yada.
00:17:22No surprise.
00:17:23Kenny Britt did not really play for the Patriots.
00:17:25No, he was an odd duck and that was his reputation.
00:17:30Yeah.
00:17:31Reputation.
00:17:32But so to the Judon thing, it's like, okay, you're, you're already.
00:17:35And you know what?
00:17:36It's actually funny.
00:17:37Cause I saw him with his phone earlier in the week too.
00:17:39So it wasn't the first time he did it, but at least in those instances, he was ready
00:17:43to practice and practice.
00:17:45This was a clear to me like, all right, time to escalate.
00:17:49Like, you know getting along, going along to get along that that's not working anymore.
00:17:54You know, I was trying to present the good guy and hoping they would see I'm a good teammate
00:17:57and I'm out here working and even God shall was not doing as much as me.
00:18:00And you know, like, I just, I'm trying to put this out there.
00:18:03And then it was like, you know what?
00:18:04This is crap.
00:18:05You're here.
00:18:06I'm here.
00:18:07We're not getting any closer.
00:18:08I'm your best player.
00:18:10Now bar Moore's out.
00:18:11Like I'm just putting it all out there.
00:18:13And it was a bad look.
00:18:14And it, it like I said, I think it, I wrote last night.
00:18:18It's kind of already in an inflection point.
00:18:20You're really not even now or a full week into football, not counting the OTAs, but
00:18:25like real football getting ready for the season.
00:18:28And you're already at this point for Elliott Wolfe and Gerard Mayo, like, what do you do?
00:18:33How do you handle it?
00:18:34And you know, we're going to talk about it.
00:18:37Did they get it right?
00:18:38Did they get it wrong?
00:18:39Did they somehow do not get back in the fall?
00:18:41But then if they're Owen six, is he complete, you know, jack wagon again?
00:18:46Who knows how it's going to play, but it's going to be something that's going to be monitored
00:18:49and it's going to be something that's going to be attached to them for this year.
00:18:52So a couple of things.
00:18:53Number one, the timing point you mentioned about when the podcast that Matt June on best
00:18:58I can tell recorded about 10 days ago.
00:19:01So before camp, there was a live show that he did with the shut up, Mark, Mark with a
00:19:04C podcast.
00:19:05I'd never heard before this, but you're right.
00:19:07They got him to talk in a way that was very open and honestly productive for people trying
00:19:12to follow this story and know how he feels and why.
00:19:16That podcast dropped eight, nine days later, right after this kind of show.
00:19:21I don't know if that's directly related to me.
00:19:25It would be strategic if he was intending to go and kind of make a mess as he did coming
00:19:29back to LA Wolf.
00:19:30But let's table that for a second.
00:19:32Number two, speaking of timing, all of this happens not only in the day the Patriots put
00:19:36on pads when there's a greater injury risk for players like him and gotcha, who also
00:19:40has an issue and whose agent showed up that same day.
00:19:42And it was just a really big, what the heck's going on?
00:19:45More weird and strange.
00:19:47The weird is now this kind of taboo word.
00:19:49We're just going to say it a bunch of times weird day than really toxic, I would say.
00:19:54But the reason I bring up Barmore is because of course he's out indefinitely with blood
00:19:56clots.
00:19:57We wish him well.
00:19:58Glad they caught this very early blood clots.
00:20:00I've got David Andrews for an entire season in 2019.
00:20:02I don't know what Barmore's timetable is.
00:20:05Neither do they.
00:20:06But it struck me that the agent for one player who wants a new contract suddenly descends
00:20:12on Foxborough the day after the only better defensive tackle on the roster is out indefinitely.
00:20:17So his client becomes much more valuable.
00:20:20And at the same time, Matt Judon, whether because they were in pads or because a podcaster
00:20:24is going to drop that night, but is the only better pass rusher on the roster than Christian
00:20:28Barmore now finally starts to make a mess, which really makes them, if there's a connection
00:20:34there, and I'm not alleging that there is one, but would obviously be in the best interest
00:20:38of business, quite like a vulture, I would say at this point.
00:20:43And I give credit to the Patriots for just kind of sitting tight because the way I look
00:20:47at this is this.
00:20:48Yeah.
00:20:49The PR has been bad the last couple of days.
00:20:50They'll take the PR hit if it means they get a better deal in the long run.
00:20:54And if they keep Judon, just say, stay home.
00:20:56We'll figure this out.
00:20:57Unless you're ready to work, stay home.
00:20:59That's a win for Mayo.
00:21:01That's a win for Elliott Wolfe.
00:21:02And ultimately, if they do trade him, it's a huge bummer.
00:21:04I would rather see Matt Judon play in New England, but time passing, everyone taking
00:21:08your breath, they're off today.
00:21:09We'll see what Thursday brings.
00:21:11I think when we get some time in perspective for now, to me, I still think this is more
00:21:16of a PR and an optics issue than Matt Judon's rankling the entire locker room where no media
00:21:21member has been, by the way.
00:21:22So they're talking about a locker room divide.
00:21:24They're making it up or don't know what they're talking about.
00:21:27Because everyone else in the locker room either is behind Gerard Mayo as everything we've
00:21:30heard since the spring, or has a contract extension.
00:21:34Yes.
00:21:35He doesn't have much longer.
00:21:37No, and I'll shoot down the locker room thing.
00:21:41I don't think there's a problem in the locker room at all.
00:21:46They had a bad year last year.
00:21:48They're hoping for a better year this year.
00:21:50Matthew Judon is, if not their best player, he's one of their two or three best players.
00:21:55And I think if you pulled the locker room, I'm just talking to guys privately, they want
00:22:01as many good players as possible.
00:22:02You know, like if you trade just random, like if you go trade your first round pick next
00:22:06year for Brandon Ayuk, the locker room will be thrilled.
00:22:09They don't care about your first round pick.
00:22:11They just care.
00:22:12They want, you know, give me guys, give me dudes.
00:22:14You give me more dudes.
00:22:15We have a better chance to win games.
00:22:16Funny you bring up Brandon Ayuk for a first round pick.
00:22:18I think someone proposed a first round pick swap fairly recently.
00:22:22Yeah.
00:22:23I think we texted about that.
00:22:25I don't, I wasn't, I would have said no.
00:22:27Yeah.
00:22:28I think we just didn't text him for a few days after.
00:22:30Yeah.
00:22:31Yeah.
00:22:32I think your feelings were hurt.
00:22:33Yeah.
00:22:34So you bring up Wolf and you're talking about the PR and the optics of it.
00:22:40Here's my biggest thing.
00:22:43And one of the reasons why it bothered me as it did, and this is a twofold.
00:22:49One, the immediate reaction was aside from the people assailing Judon for his behavior
00:22:54was, oh, he showed up male.
00:22:58And I actually thought, and again, without knowing full details of the conversation that
00:23:04Gerard did his best to sort of settle it down.
00:23:08I mean, when, when Judon went over to the pads and sat on the, the blocking dummies
00:23:12six feet in the air again, making a spectacle of himself so all could see.
00:23:17And Gerard is standing inside him and he's got his mouth covered.
00:23:20It was a long conversation, not like the one on the trash can earlier.
00:23:24This was a longer conversation.
00:23:26It seemed a little bit less demonstrative, but I think that put him in a bad spot and
00:23:32what put him in a bad spot is not only Judon's behavior, but it's management.
00:23:37It's Elliot Wolf.
00:23:38And if you want to tie Robert Kraft to this, because he's the one who has to write the
00:23:41check when last year, when they moved the money from Judon's contract in 2024, this
00:23:47year into 2023, to make him happy and in the holdout hold in, they knew right away in that
00:23:53very moment, the clock had started on next year's holdout.
00:23:58So okay.
00:23:59You go through a season.
00:24:01If Bill's here, do we think Judon's back?
00:24:03I don't know.
00:24:04I know some people have speculated he's gone.
00:24:06I think Bill kind of likes Judon.
00:24:07So maybe Judon was one of the guys that he'd reward regardless.
00:24:11New management kits in place.
00:24:13And they had months before the draft to figure this out.
00:24:18Are we close?
00:24:19Is there something that can be done?
00:24:20Is he part of our future or is he a one-year guy?
00:24:24And no, we're not really that close.
00:24:25So you know what?
00:24:26Screw it.
00:24:27On draft day or right before the draft, we're going to spin him off for a pick.
00:24:31Someone who's looking for a pass rusher, instead of putting one in the draft, we're trading
00:24:34him at the draft.
00:24:35Well, let's stay with the draft for a second because I want to move on from Judon.
00:24:38But I think the point you're getting to is a trade, right?
00:24:40Like you could have done a trade earlier.
00:24:42You could have added an asset at a time that you would have loved an extra draft pick.
00:24:45This is a rebuild.
00:24:46More draft picks, the better.
00:24:47But they just created this situation.
00:24:49They let this fester.
00:24:50And they know that they haven't been able to close the gap.
00:24:53They've made offers.
00:24:54They haven't.
00:24:55And he's here.
00:24:56And they're here.
00:24:57And they haven't even come anywhere close to the middle.
00:24:59So what's the calculus here?
00:25:02What did you think was going to happen?
00:25:04You think that you were going to make this guy play on $7 million-ish, whatever the contract
00:25:09is?
00:25:10Did you think he was going to bend to you and just take the sweetener or what he feels
00:25:15is a lowball offer?
00:25:18If you know anything about Matt Judon, Matt Judon cares about his money.
00:25:21And I don't fault him for that.
00:25:23I care about my money, too.
00:25:24Gotchow cares about his money.
00:25:26But if he's not getting his money, he's not going to be happy.
00:25:30And if he's not happy, then you get what happened there.
00:25:33And again, now we're talking about that more than we're talking about football.
00:25:37And there's a lot of football stuff that's happened in the last week, too.
00:25:40Yeah.
00:25:41Let's talk about the football really quick.
00:25:42I texted an NFC executive yesterday just, hey, I don't know if you have any interest.
00:25:46But what do you think Judon would fetch in the trade market?
00:25:49He said a third round pick or equivalent to that.
00:25:51Really quickly, would you take that deal right now?
00:25:53Oh, a third round pick in a heartbeat, because I think it's more like a fourth or a fifth.
00:25:58And I talked to, well, I talked to a couple of people league wide and like, it doesn't
00:26:03seem to be an inordinate amount of interest.
00:26:07You know, and I started to go down the list of like, well, who Chicago would be a team
00:26:11that I'd be on the phone with right now.
00:26:13Chicago wants a pass rusher opposite Montez Sweat.
00:26:17Austin Booker, who I love, is a rookie out of Kansas, but he's a fifth round pick.
00:26:20He's raw.
00:26:21He's got 500 college snaps.
00:26:22Like, that's a team that's trying to get to the playoffs that actually might have a window
00:26:25to get to the playoffs.
00:26:27Go trade for Matt Judon.
00:26:28Maybe they're a team that would say, okay, we'll give you that third or a fourth.
00:26:33But by and large, I think it's going to be like, he's still going to be unhappy with
00:26:36his contract.
00:26:37Yeah.
00:26:38If we don't have any plans on extending him, why am I going to give you a day two pick?
00:26:43Breaking news.
00:26:44We've got a young, exciting underdog team in Boston.
00:26:47That's making a run for the playoffs.
00:26:48No, it's not the Patriots.
00:26:49Well, not the Patriots yet.
00:26:52It's the Red Sox.
00:26:53And if you've been following this season, you know that the Red Sox have been a hotter
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00:28:04Christian Barmore.
00:28:05And again, folks wanting to get to more of the training can't stop.
00:28:08We have a ton of notes.
00:28:09We have a lot more coming.
00:28:11So just hang in.
00:28:12It's just hard to get around the idea that through six days of training camp, when I
00:28:15said the truth is in the trends, we haven't had as much time to build trends yet.
00:28:18The best player in the team, being in a contract dispute and showing up in a way that's unprecedented,
00:28:23is going to get some air time.
00:28:24So here's where we pivot, because again, there are ripple effects.
00:28:29Christian Barmore has ruled out indefinitely on Sunday.
00:28:31Matt Judon does all this on Monday.
00:28:33Barmore has since been replaced in practice as Monday and Tuesday.
00:28:37Who I picked as kind of this little bounce back, breakout player a couple of months ago,
00:28:42but to me is not a starter in this league.
00:28:44And so I ask you, and then we'll get to Drake May and everything we've seen, what we like,
00:28:48what we want to see next.
00:28:49How do you replace Christian Barmore?
00:28:51If we assume he's out for the season, which I think has to be our baseline assumption
00:28:55told the world otherwise, because he's going to be on blood thinners, you can't play football
00:28:58on blood thinners, even as you're getting weaned off, and then you got to build back
00:29:01up your strength and all these different things.
00:29:03My answer would be schematically.
00:29:05This is not a one-for-one deal, and you can make it one-for-one by replacing Christian
00:29:09Barmore in early downs.
00:29:10Be like, hey, Arman Watts, you played for the Steelers, you played across the defensive
00:29:13line before that with the Vikings, had like five and a half sacks.
00:29:17That's great.
00:29:18Arman Watts and Devon Cajos, you're starting defensive tackles.
00:29:21Not enough pass rush for me in early downs when he's really going to make a good, good
00:29:24run stopping.
00:29:25And then on third down, it's Daniel Ekowale, and then you're dipping into Sam Roberts.
00:29:30You're going to kick Keone White inside, and then Anthony Jennings and Josh Ducey, or maybe
00:29:33Matt Judon's back.
00:29:34I don't like it.
00:29:36My answer would be more single gap.
00:29:37I trust Arman Watts to get more of an interior push if he's allowed, not just to two-yap
00:29:42and hold up and face double teams, but if they play more four down.
00:29:45What do you think of that?
00:29:46And if not, what's your answer?
00:29:48Yeah, I mean, I think that's the way to go because, I mean, forget about having someone
00:29:54who's even on the same level as Barmore.
00:29:56Like I don't, I think there are multiple levels down to their, whether you're talking about
00:30:02Roberts, Ekowale, any one of those guys that you're just, I mean, Christian Barmore was
00:30:07one of the best defensive linemen in football last year, and I think they were planning
00:30:10on him being even a better player this year.
00:30:12So it's got to be scheme because from a skill talent perspective, you don't have that.
00:30:17I think you can obviously, on obvious passing situations, even if Judon is not here, I think
00:30:23you still have enough people that can go get the pass.
00:30:25You're going to have to get creative.
00:30:27You're going to have some smaller guys on the field rushing the passer, but I think
00:30:30you could get by there.
00:30:32It's just the early downs and obviously sort of the attention that he commanded last year,
00:30:37especially as it went along where, you know, two bodies needed to be put on him.
00:30:41And that's tough to replace when all of a sudden now there's a free body because you're
00:30:45not really worried about getting beat by Ekowale or Sam Roberts on a consistent basis.
00:30:49Yeah, and when I say play more four down, that's not just like a broad brush, simple
00:30:52wave of wind.
00:30:53There's a fix, right?
00:30:54I just think it alleviates pressure on players.
00:30:57You talk about Barmore was someone who had a gravity to him, right?
00:31:00He demanded double teams.
00:31:01He demanded, if we're talking about a receiver, a safety over the top.
00:31:04What the Patriots would do then and did towards the end of last season was work that against
00:31:08different teams who anticipated a double team and they would draw and build their stunts
00:31:12and twists around.
00:31:13Okay, all the attention's going here.
00:31:14We'll have him loop around the opposite way and kind of have a pick set.
00:31:17These are not uncommon tactics, but when you can't bank on a team saying we can't afford
00:31:22to single block him and then flip that against them, you need to get more creative.
00:31:26And I think just create more single, you know, blocking opportunities across the board on
00:31:31early downs and late downs because you need as many guys freed up on their own as possible
00:31:38when the talent is not there to say, oh, he'll win.
00:31:42Now you need someone to step up, probably on every different down, especially if Judon's
00:31:45not here.
00:31:46Speaking of stepping up, Drake May, three straight below average practices.
00:31:50His completion percentage over the last three days, 53% in team periods.
00:31:55It's about 60 for camp, a little bit over that.
00:31:58And this is a guy that I look at and say, okay, he's going through some growing pains,
00:32:01you know, like facing a projected top five defense is going to do that.
00:32:05Playing with a bottom five offensive line, missing David Andrews, by the way, the last
00:32:09two practices is going to do that.
00:32:11And the receivers, we know what they are.
00:32:13What do you know about Drake May?
00:32:14What's your big takeaway just from watching him last week?
00:32:18I think I wrote in the, as you did the fill in the black, miles to go before he sleeps.
00:32:22I think there's, look, there's, we knew that he was a more on the raw side as a prospect
00:32:30and that there are things that needed to be worked on, particularly his bases, footwork
00:32:33and those sorts of things that I was encouraged by in the spring, because I felt like every
00:32:38time we saw him in the spring, he was making steps in the right direction.
00:32:42And I was like, which kind of got me amped up here for the start of camp thinking like,
00:32:46I don't know if he continues to make that sort of progress.
00:32:50Can he, by the end of August?
00:32:51Is he really going to be able to challenge Jacoby for the number one job?
00:32:55And what we've seen here is a guy who's headed swimming, which has led to bad footwork, which
00:33:01has led to slower processing, which has led to inaccuracies.
00:33:05And I don't think any of those things are things that can't be overcome because then
00:33:09you see moments where, again, it does come together and it is a quick release and the
00:33:14ball's where it's supposed to be and it's thrown with great velocity.
00:33:16And, you know, there was a play yesterday, it was in team, it ended up as an incomplete
00:33:20pass, but he was flushed.
00:33:22He went to his left, you know, he flipped his hips and he threw a rocket to Jalen Polk.
00:33:27It was a little high as Polk was coming on the cross, Polk should have caught the ball.
00:33:32Like that's a, if you want to be a number one or number two or number three receiver
00:33:37in this league, Jalen Polk, you're a second round pick.
00:33:39They believe that you can be that, then you have to catch that ball.
00:33:42And I was like, okay, I took heart in some of the incompletions during that drill where
00:33:45I think he was one for five or one for six, that there were a couple balls that he put
00:33:48in receivers that receivers should have caught that didn't.
00:33:52But it's just not been consistent enough.
00:33:57And I, you know, I guess it's the, you're, you have to preach patience and here's the
00:34:00other problem is now I'm getting a lot of people asking me, well, Mac Jones, Mac Jones,
00:34:04Mac Jones.
00:34:05I'm like, right.
00:34:06Mac Jones was billed as what?
00:34:07The absolute opposite of Drake May, not a physically gifted player, Drake May, extremely
00:34:12physically gifted.
00:34:13Drake May raw needs work on footwork and needs, you know, work processing.
00:34:18Whereas Mac Jones came out with a computer brain, blah, blah, blah.
00:34:21His brain was a superpower.
00:34:22It turned out by the way, his brain wasn't a superpower because he made so many dumb
00:34:25throws in years two and three that I lost count.
00:34:29But that's just sort of where we're at right now.
00:34:31And I guess, I guess I'm a little disappointed just because I thought based on what I saw
00:34:37in the spring and knowing the work that he put in between the spring and getting ready
00:34:41for camp, that we would see even more of a jump.
00:34:44We haven't.
00:34:45So, okay.
00:34:46It's, you know, stay safe.
00:34:47And we had a measured way to look at that progress, right?
00:34:50It wasn't just what you were writing, what I was writing, what, you know, anybody else
00:34:53is writing, Oh, Drake May looks better and better.
00:34:55He'd left Bailey's happy in the pecking order, going from number three to number two, which
00:35:00then begs the obvious question, can Drake May jump to QB one?
00:35:04And right now I would just say flatly, Jacoby resets lead has grown over the first six days
00:35:10of camp.
00:35:11I don't think it's terribly surprising.
00:35:12I think I, if I had to predict, I would have said it would have stayed steady over the
00:35:16first six days.
00:35:17Then Drake, as he gets adjusted to the speed and the padded practices and you know, the
00:35:21defense spinning the dial a little bit more not to mention again, the injuries around
00:35:25him, then he would start to make it up around the first and second preseason game.
00:35:29We're not there yet.
00:35:30We do have about nine to 10 practices left, all three preseason games.
00:35:34And to me, for Drake May, not only just to want to see tangible progress, like better
00:35:37than 53% where he's been the last three days, uh, which I will, I will repeat same number
00:35:42of interceptions, Joe Milton, who's had fewer than half of the attempts to Drake Mays had
00:35:46same number of sacks.
00:35:47So Drake may still have been better, but I just want to see him play a little calmer
00:35:51from the base up because I think that's going to translate to everything down the field
00:35:55where it's not that he's gun shy.
00:35:58He's going through his progressions.
00:35:59I mean, I wrote that he was gun shy yesterday.
00:36:01I should, I should, I should stick by that, but he's only had three days out of the six
00:36:05Mike, where he's made multiple passes longer than 10 yards down the field.
00:36:10This is a cannon strapped, athletic, creative off platform thrower.
00:36:14The issue is when he doesn't have his feet set and he knows his, his arm is, you know,
00:36:20coming, um, or his arm is ready to deliver and the pressure is coming.
00:36:24He will just go straight into whatever's most comfortable, whatever arm angle, wherever
00:36:28his feet are and just try to get it in there.
00:36:30That's not going to work consistently right now.
00:36:32And so then once I think his feet calm down in the pocket or sliding away from pressure,
00:36:38everything else above the waist is going to follow.
00:36:41I don't really care about the arm angle as long as it gets there.
00:36:43But if the feet are off, that's what's leading to, I think these Aaron throws.
00:36:47Um, and I think a guy who's dealing with a lot because again, you know, just imagine
00:36:54the difference between having two feet on firm ground and land versus feel like you're
00:36:58trying to throw a football on a ship out in the middle of the ocean.
00:37:02That's what Drake may look like right now.
00:37:04Yeah.
00:37:05You and I were having this conversation because I did write something about his, again, sort
00:37:09of, it's become like an over-reliance on the three quarter arm angle stuff.
00:37:13That's kind of driving me nuts because they're, what's frustrating me is like receivers open
00:37:18in the flat.
00:37:19I know you're, you've had a rush, but there is no rush here.
00:37:23Just turn your feet, plant and throw.
00:37:26You're going to hit that 99 out of a hundred times.
00:37:29But to your point, things are so fast for him right now that, Oh, it's open.
00:37:35And instead of setting his feet, creating that nice base and foundation, he's just three
00:37:40quarters.
00:37:41And then the next thing you know, he's throwing a, you know, a cutter or the ball's tailing
00:37:45away and he misses the receiver by two feet and you're like, bro, it doesn't get any easier
00:37:50than that.
00:37:51In fact, in this league, you know, as we say, the windows are very small and when you have
00:37:54a window that's open like that, you have to hit those throats.
00:37:58You just have to.
00:38:00And he has, he has consistently missed those throws thus far.
00:38:03And again, it's, it's, it's not because he doesn't have the arm talent or the brains.
00:38:08He just, everything is going like this.
00:38:10It's too fast.
00:38:11And he, until he slows it down, we're going to continue to see those sort of erratic throws
00:38:16and erratic behavior overall in terms of his body and where his feet place.
00:38:21Yeah.
00:38:22The erratic behavior, I think we can safely say it belongs to Matt Judon.
00:38:25The erratic play is a little bit more.
00:38:27Yes.
00:38:28Yes.
00:38:29The erratic behavior with his legs.
00:38:30I didn't mean his head.
00:38:31Yeah.
00:38:32Yeah.
00:38:33Filling about, uh, look, I just want to see him throw downfield a little bit more.
00:38:36I want to see him be calmer in the pocket.
00:38:37I a million percent believe Drake may will be better as we close out this week practices
00:38:42Thursday, Friday, Saturday.
00:38:43I don't know when the pads are going to come on.
00:38:45I don't even know if the Patriots have made that determination yet coming off of two straight
00:38:48practices into an off day, uh, moving on stock up.
00:38:53You tease this already.
00:38:54Keone White was one of your two players that guys that are surprising and or impressing
00:38:57you so far.
00:38:58I am going to answer my own question with a question ready, not a jerk, uh, Mike, who
00:39:09do you think is leading the Patriots in catches during team periods through six days of Patriots
00:39:14training camp?
00:39:15Take one.
00:39:16Thornton.
00:39:17No.
00:39:18Solid.
00:39:19Guess so.
00:39:20Not even the right position though, Austin, Austin Hooper, 11 catches in team periods
00:39:27for Austin Hooper.
00:39:28A couple of things on this.
00:39:29Uh, number one, they have been playing a lot more too tight end personnel, specifically
00:39:33with Jacoby preset when they start the seven on sevens at 11 on 11 periods.
00:39:37This is not too tight end sets.
00:39:39Uh, as I talked about last week with the kite, that's going to inspire any comparisons to
00:39:44past Patriot offenses, uh, which more recently flopped when being compared to the original
00:39:48two tight end offense.
00:39:50It's just something to keep a note behind him.
00:39:51Reminders.
00:39:53nine, Jalen Polk and KJ Osborne both have a Hooper is both someone that both the quarterbacks
00:39:59trust in the flat as a check down option and someone up the scene.
00:40:03I think he's solid.
00:40:04I'm not projecting a even 600 yard season, but just he's look better than I thought he
00:40:09would.
00:40:10Yeah, he has a good hands, a good sense of how guys are playing him and how to utilize
00:40:17that his leverage versus theirs.
00:40:20Um, you know, look, obviously it's some years removed now, but he was a huge force for Atlanta
00:40:27and signed a massive free agent contract when he left there and then sort of has become
00:40:32a bit of a journeyman.
00:40:33I believe it's just 14 and four years, but he's a pro.
00:40:36It's like, I don't, I think, I think I wrote this in the preview.
00:40:39He's not going to, there's nothing that he does.
00:40:41That's going to wow you.
00:40:43Whereas you know, obviously last year, even though as we talked about often, he was more
00:40:48receiver than tight end.
00:40:49In fact, he, he was a receiver and anytime they tried to have him block at the, you know,
00:40:53at the, at the strength of the play, it was an absolute debacle.
00:40:56Um, the Hooper is not that, that problem, but that there is, there is sort of safety
00:41:03in that.
00:41:04Like I, I know what he is.
00:41:05I, I'm pretty certain I'm going to get the same type of effort and performance from him
00:41:09week after week.
00:41:10And I think that's beneficial for a team that's obviously been riding a roller coaster, uh,
00:41:15offensively period.
00:41:16And even at that position at times.
00:41:18So, uh, it's, he's been a nice little ad for, for, for very little money to your point.
00:41:23He's not, he's not catching 60 passes.
00:41:24I'd be shocked unless something happened to Hunter, but, uh, it's a, it's a nice little
00:41:29piece to have.
00:41:30All right.
00:41:31You already teased Ken White.
00:41:32We talked about him.
00:41:33Uh, who is your second player as far as stock up so far early in camp?
00:41:37So this might surprise you because we've talked about how the offensive line has been erratic
00:41:42and maybe has only had, I don't know, one, one good day out of six.
00:41:47I'm going to say Caden Wallace.
00:41:49I've seen enough with Caden Wallace in moments, again, not, it's not a consistent thing where
00:41:56I say to myself, Oh, you know what?
00:42:00They may be right.
00:42:01He may be able to play left tackle.
00:42:03Um, and obviously that's where he's settled in here in the last four days as they've sort
00:42:07of established for the first time, a semi consistent five, I mean, obviously without
00:42:13David Andrews the last two days, but he would be in there, uh, were he not away from the
00:42:16team.
00:42:17So, um, I think he has a chance.
00:42:20I think he's strong.
00:42:21I think he's smart.
00:42:22Uh, and I think he seems to be someone who's embracing the Scott Peters, the strike system
00:42:28that, that, uh, some of the nerds are really getting into, uh, Taylor to, to keep Taylor
00:42:36has to keep his pants on when we're talking about strike systems.
00:42:38That's a fine.
00:42:39You've used that line about pants on or pants off.
00:42:41I mean, three times on the podcast.
00:42:44Yeah.
00:42:45Okay.
00:42:46That's fine.
00:42:47That's fine.
00:42:48All right.
00:42:49But you owe me like six beers.
00:42:50So let's just take it off my desk.
00:42:51It's true.
00:42:52Um, so I, I, I, I, I wasn't sure about him in the spring.
00:42:57I was like, Oh God.
00:42:58And he kind of, and they kind of, as the spring went on, they kind of went away, at least
00:43:01when we were there from seeing him at left tackle.
00:43:03I'm like, Oh, so you talk about him being a possible left tackle, but now you've already
00:43:06made the determination that he's got to stay on the right side.
00:43:09And he's not even with the ones that, you know, consistently in the right side and again,
00:43:14rookie.
00:43:15So you're still waiting for development, but then that he's gotten to this point and that
00:43:18I've seen signs and I've seen him pick up some stunts, you know, during team period,
00:43:22I'm like, okay, I think I feel better about that pick and his capability of maybe making
00:43:30the switch.
00:43:31Cause I think athletically you see like there's, it's a good skillset there with that player.
00:43:36We talk about measurable ways or ways to measure progress, right?
00:43:42For Drake May, who's going from QB three to QB two in the spring, Kate Wallace going from
00:43:46right tackle with the second and third team to the first team left tackle after two practices
00:43:52and then staying there for the last four days, it's been impressive because we know they're
00:43:56going to rotate.
00:43:57I would not expect him to stay there for the rest of training camp, but he stayed there
00:44:00longer than we saw Calvin Anderson longer than we saw Chukumo Kora for, okay.
00:44:04He was back at right tackle.
00:44:07Like that's what they're doing.
00:44:08They're saying our first team offense, we're going to put a third round rookie at left
00:44:10tackle.
00:44:11He's not played there.
00:44:12I see the strength.
00:44:13I see the movement.
00:44:14I just know the history of rookie offensive tackles.
00:44:16I don't care where you were drafted or how high it's not good.
00:44:20And so it'll take some time, especially with the transition.
00:44:22But I am a little bit higher on him than I expected to be.
00:44:25So I'm with you there.
00:44:26I have another rookie offensive lineman though.
00:44:28And this isn't so much in team periods because again, we're looking at the ball, who's throwing,
00:44:35who's catching, what's the route, you know, was there any kind of pressure?
00:44:38But Lane Robinson has been a right guard every single day with the second team.
00:44:42And when they go into one-on-ones, this dude not only like sprints to the line, whatever
00:44:47they have set up on the far end of the field where you can see them go, you know, snap
00:44:50the ball and there's a line of offense and a line of defense and one guy will rush against
00:44:54another whose job is obviously to stop him.
00:44:57Lane Robinson is sprinting in and out of this drill.
00:44:59When he's in the drill, he is, okay, this is a nerd moment for me.
00:45:06Anyone who's watched Dragon Ball Z or has any sort of idea of what like throwing energy
00:45:10or air or, I don't even remember the term, maybe I'm not that big of a nerd.
00:45:16He stunned with one hand Dietrich Weiss in a way that I thought I only saw in cartoons
00:45:21during one-on-one pass rush.
00:45:22Like put the hand to the chest and Dietrich Weiss went backwards, stumbled backwards in
00:45:27a way that was like, did he not expect that to happen when the whistle blew?
00:45:32Because that's how strong this dude is.
00:45:33And I wrote earlier this season, he's had shades of Shaq Mason.
00:45:36He was three-and-oh one-on-one pass rush yesterday.
00:45:38He was two-and-one the day before.
00:45:40These are small individual drills, but the way he's built, especially for a player where
00:45:45pass protection was his weakness, I would say, in addition to the penalties coming out
00:45:48of college.
00:45:49That's another one would go, I was pretty critical of the pick.
00:45:53I'm not coming around just yet, but I'm more open to it because he's taking care of business.
00:45:58Yeah, he is, again, another, he's an impressive dude.
00:46:03The strength matters.
00:46:05To your point, Sidney So did the same thing, and I'd have to check my notes again.
00:46:10He did it to someone where it was a one-handed thing and he just, boom, stopped him.
00:46:14Yeah, well, we talked to him afterwards and he was like, yeah, he was like, I couldn't
00:46:19believe the play was over, you know, one shot.
00:46:22And I was like, wow, I won the play, you know, like, all right, I like that.
00:46:26So, Scott Peter's given them some more tools to work with in that bag.
00:46:31Yeah, it's interesting, like, I mean, look, I like the draft class so far.
00:46:37I mean, it's not, obviously, it's not been consistent, you know, the Polk and Baker,
00:46:41there's been some ups and downs.
00:46:44And Drake heads the list, and obviously, he's been not what we're hoping for just yet.
00:46:49But like, there's some pieces there that looks like some of these guys can play and play
00:46:53and contribute this season.
00:46:54And that's obviously pretty important as you're trying to build this thing and build
00:46:58this offense from the ground floor.
00:46:59All right, we got to zip through the next eight minutes here.
00:47:02We have two stock downs.
00:47:03Scott, this is, you know, players who are surprising us or underwhelming so far.
00:47:07I've written a lot about Javon Baker and Jalen Polk.
00:47:09Jalen Polk had the play of the day yesterday.
00:47:11He led all players in catches during team periods with four.
00:47:16You know, he gets an honorable mention, Baker does too.
00:47:18He's been more flash in one-on-ones and had the bigger plays, the better plays.
00:47:22But consistency day-to-day has not been there.
00:47:24Two of five on targets and team drills on Monday goes down to, I think, O of two on
00:47:29Tuesday.
00:47:30So if you want to know how I feel about Javon Baker, see the tweets, read the stories.
00:47:34I'll add Alex Austin in there.
00:47:35He's tied for the team lead in pass breakups through six practices, everyone's favorite
00:47:40sleeper sleeper here in the roster.
00:47:41And Dietrich Weiss has been solid two pass breakups a sack, aside from getting blasted
00:47:45by Leighton Robinson, who is now making me realize that the Dragon Ball Z reference is
00:47:49the only thing that's going to be populated in the YouTube comments and any replies to
00:47:53the tweet when I send this podcast out, as opposed to the 50 minutes of talking mostly
00:47:56football.
00:47:57Way to go.
00:47:58Two stock down for you, and I bet we're going to overlap at least on one, if not both.
00:48:03Oh, I bet you we don't.
00:48:06Josh Uche, Bailey Zappi.
00:48:08Okay, so we do have one.
00:48:10Josh Uche.
00:48:11Okay.
00:48:12Four days in, I'm going, where has he been?
00:48:15I see him on the field, he's just invisible.
00:48:18And then the next day he goes over three and one on ones and gets kicked out of practice
00:48:22for fighting.
00:48:23Yesterday, he had a would be sack, but that's it for me.
00:48:25Like I'm fully with you on this, so take it from here.
00:48:28One of our bold predictions on Boston Sports Journal, I said, I can't quit you, Josh Uche.
00:48:34I was just thinking like, all right, well, if again, this is before Judon pulled a stunt,
00:48:38but I'm like, well, if Judon's back on the field and Barmore's on the field, like I think
00:48:43that Gerard has a relationship with Uche that like he said to him, we didn't use you properly
00:48:48last year.
00:48:49We're going to give you more opportunities.
00:48:50And I'm thinking if Judon's out there and Barmore's out there, he's going to get single
00:48:53blocked and he beats, with some consistency, he can beat those guys.
00:48:56So I'm thinking like double digit sack guy.
00:48:58And I am just been underwhelmed by the level of play thus far.
00:49:03And I think we were supposed to, we scheduled to talk to him maybe once or twice so far.
00:49:07That hasn't happened yet.
00:49:08I'm just kind of, yeah, I'm just kind of curious to see where his head is at.
00:49:14And then on Zappi, like, look, man, body language is terrible.
00:49:17I get it to a certain degree.
00:49:19I do.
00:49:20Like, you know, when we talked to him in the spring, you know, they told me I'm going to
00:49:22be, I'm in a competition.
00:49:24And then he probably felt like you moved Drake ahead of me and I'm not sure that Drake outplayed
00:49:29me.
00:49:30So why am I still here?
00:49:32And I think now it's very much the vibe is why the hell am I still here?
00:49:35You know, like hands behind the back, just kind of like going through the motions.
00:49:40And like I said, I kind of understand a little bit of the frustration here, but dude, you're
00:49:43not so good that you can pout like, I mean, I guess, I guess if I'm him, I'd be going
00:49:50up to the backstairs to, to, to Elliot Wolfe and Matt Gross and why am I here?
00:49:56You cut me, trade me.
00:49:57Can we, can we just do this?
00:49:59Because this is, this feels fruitless.
00:50:01I would say he got the big win of his career when Mack Jones got traded and he got to stay
00:50:04put.
00:50:05So anything after this is almost gravy for him knowing their relationship either never
00:50:10existed or just completely disintegrated in 2023 when they were avoiding each other
00:50:15and team hotels on the road, maybe even not taking the same elevator when possible things
00:50:19you hear.
00:50:20Anyway, my second was Juju Smith Schuster.
00:50:22I say, this is someone who was low on him to begin with and can't reported a year ago.
00:50:27The knee was not a hundred percent, has never been a hundred percent.
00:50:30We saw it on the season opener, right?
00:50:32The calm, a lot of people were upset that I said he wasn't, you know, he was signed
00:50:35to be a number one.
00:50:36That was the money they gave him relative to the rest of the receivers right now.
00:50:39They don't even see him as a number five when you include running backs and tight ends
00:50:42as potential targets.
00:50:43And that's only played out since.
00:50:45And I don't see a better version of him through six practices had a drop yesterday, a couple
00:50:49of catches to his credit, one-on-ones separating laterally or with his long speed.
00:50:54It's just not happening.
00:50:55He's a bigger body, but for a team that's going to undergo a youth movement, I, my bold
00:51:00prediction at the Boston Herald was I think they would eat the money and cut him at the
00:51:05end of camp because you just, you just can't trade them.
00:51:07I don't think you have any disagreement there.
00:51:09No, no.
00:51:10I mean, I could have easily put them on the list, but I just, I don't, I just don't, I
00:51:15just don't expect them to be, to your point, I don't expect them to be here.
00:51:18Like I think there was a practice, maybe it was Friday where I just, I think I turned
00:51:22to Andy Hart from WEI and I was like, just cut him now.
00:51:27Like what are we like?
00:51:29And it's not for effort.
00:51:30He's giving effort.
00:51:31It's just the body is, the body is unwilling.
00:51:33Jacoby Meyer said it at the Superbowl, right?
00:51:35Like, you know, the league caught up to him physically, like he just, he's not the same
00:51:39guy because of the, you know, the punishment that he's taken and, and the shape that his
00:51:43knees are in.
00:51:44And, you know, I asked him yesterday, he still insisted that hot thousand yard receiver is
00:51:48in there.
00:51:49I don't know where he's getting a thousand yards, you know, maybe in flag football.
00:51:53I did not in the NFL walking to and from his car before, before and after practices and
00:51:59games this season.
00:52:00That was hard, but no, his knee has betrayed him and it's a bummer because he's still only
00:52:0627.
00:52:07Something that someone told me the other day and I was like, that's just, come on, double
00:52:11check that.
00:52:12No, he's 27.
00:52:13He got drafted when he was 20 at a USC and yeah, his best is behind him and it's just,
00:52:18it's been even worse for a guy who, you know, tried to sell us in the spring.
00:52:21Like he's a hundred percent rested up, watched Bridgerton, your favorite show I know.
00:52:25And now he's back and looks like the same guy.
00:52:28All right.
00:52:29Two quick thoughts.
00:52:30Non-Ney offensive thought, and then the non-Judon slash Baltimore thought on the defense.
00:52:36I would just say, you know, obviously spent a lot of time watching the wide receivers
00:52:40as they've tried to rework that room.
00:52:41And I would just say, there's just, there's a level of inconsistency there.
00:52:45You know, Baker has his moments, had two practices in a row where people were, I'm not going
00:52:51to say it because I've already said it three times.
00:52:52People were excited about his performance.
00:52:55And then yesterday he had zero bursts.
00:52:57Like one of the things that, that I liked about him early in camp is when the ball was
00:53:01in the air, there were a lot of times where he was even with the defensive back.
00:53:05And then when the ball got in the air, he was leaving the defensive back and he made
00:53:09like you had this little burst, a burst by the way that I haven't seen from Polk, which
00:53:12is a little slightly concerning for me.
00:53:16But then yesterday he didn't have it.
00:53:17So maybe just dead legs, but he didn't, he didn't track down some balls yesterday.
00:53:21They had been tracking down prior.
00:53:24Polk has done his best work.
00:53:26It feels like within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage.
00:53:29And when he does get open down the field, the window is small, which again, it's this
00:53:34league, this, this, but we've seen like Baker will pull away from a guy and create a couple
00:53:38yards of separation.
00:53:39Taekwon will do that.
00:53:42Polk is more of, he's going to be more of a technician, I think.
00:53:45And it's going to have to be one with sharp cuts and winning, you know, more competitive
00:53:53type situations.
00:53:54And I think he has the hands to do that.
00:53:55I think he's a strong hands.
00:53:56I think he goes back to the ball very well, but again, just a little bit inconsistent
00:53:59and not having pop out there certainly has changed the equation.
00:54:04He finally got out there in the red, non-contact for his first seven on seven, but still hasn't
00:54:08participated in team unless I missed something.
00:54:11And that's, he's the guy that gets open in a phone booth and he's probably going to be
00:54:14the guy who eats most of the targets, you know, so that's not having him out there sort
00:54:20of impacts the way you look at everyone else.
00:54:22I've been sort of eh on KJ Osborne.
00:54:25I think he's fine.
00:54:26I thought the signing was fine.
00:54:27He's a professional, but like, he's not someone to me that you're going to feature in any
00:54:33shape way or form.
00:54:35And the one thing I will give you, and I guessed incorrectly on Thornton is that there have
00:54:39been some Taekwon moments and, you know, we've been through this before with him in the early
00:54:44parts of summer and he's got to carry that through, but the speed is still there.
00:54:51And like that to me is if he, if there's a little bit more consistency and in catching
00:54:55the football and knowing where he's going, which thus far, I feel like he has shown that
00:54:59consistency, then he'll make a, he'll make a case to be on the roster when, when all
00:55:05said and done.
00:55:06Yeah.
00:55:07Right now I have him on the roster.
00:55:08Uh, in my unofficial 53 man that I had to rattle off my receivers last night and BST
00:55:12at the top of my head, but I got to five and turns out I had six and then Felger said something
00:55:15about counting on his toes, which I said, what, why, why, what's going on there?
00:55:21But also did you have Kesh, you have Kesh on or off?
00:55:24I just, I, I get that people want him to be on.
00:55:27I understand we're still hammering the 2020 LSU freshman year production.
00:55:32He's a six round pick who's looked like it was a healthy scratch for more than half of
00:55:35last season.
00:55:36Uh, has not separated himself this summer from within a bad receiving group.
00:55:40The flashes are few and far between.
00:55:43And when we talk about Taekwon Thornton, he's had the flashes that we've seen before,
00:55:46but also been more consistent.
00:55:47Like this is a guy who's getting about two catches per day.
00:55:50And there are some players, including KJ Osborne, who have gone over in certain practices and
00:55:54then it happens.
00:55:55It's training camp.
00:55:56Osborne, uh, the way you describe them, it's kind of like, you know, the guy, your sister
00:56:00brings home, uh, not my sister, just generally like, and everyone's like, oh yeah, they're,
00:56:06they're nice.
00:56:07Like they're fine.
00:56:08Like, what do you think?
00:56:09He just, okay.
00:56:11You know, like that, that's what it is.
00:56:13Okay.
00:56:14KJ's like fine.
00:56:15He's been okay.
00:56:16If you were, I don't, I don't hate him.
00:56:17I just, I don't.
00:56:18And it's just fine.
00:56:19He's fine.
00:56:20Um, I would say this too, for people who are upset, we're not doing a lot more Jayvon Baker
00:56:24and a lot more Jalen Polk, Jerry and I are not here to hype up the rookies.
00:56:28Like we're not going to be tweeting.
00:56:30This dude is a problem after six days of camp and only two in pads, you need to see it a
00:56:36little bit more.
00:56:37Polk has been steadier.
00:56:38Yeah.
00:56:39Happy with him.
00:56:40Yep.
00:56:41Baker's had the better flashes.
00:56:42Yeah.
00:56:43I'm excited for the rest of this group.
00:56:44That's a fact.
00:56:45And I'm excited.
00:56:46Yep.
00:56:47You got to earn it.
00:56:48And no one's earning anything.
00:56:49This really can't.
00:56:50Now I will say next episode, we will talk a lot more about the rookies.
00:56:51My non may offensive thought was the run game.
00:56:53Excellent.
00:56:54On Monday.
00:56:55First day of pads was like, uh, you guys, the offensive lines banked up and doesn't
00:56:59have one reliable center.
00:57:00I couldn't tell.
00:57:01Uh, granted bar more is out.
00:57:03Gotcha.
00:57:04I was in and out of team periods, even though some people wrote that he was non-participant
00:57:07contact drills, not through participated Monday and Tuesday.
00:57:11And, um, Tony Gibson looks great.
00:57:13That dude's only been back for the last three days.
00:57:15I like what I see him and Stevenson.
00:57:16I don't think can really be on the field together at the same time and pose as much of a threat
00:57:20as people might be inclined to believe.
00:57:23But I'm very intrigued by that one, two combination because he's been really, really good.
00:57:26Um, let's just grab the defensive thought cause we did a lot on Jude on bar more and
00:57:30talked about key on a little bit of the corners, but unless you're really itching to share
00:57:34that with the people.
00:57:35No, I was just going to say, and I, I sort of touched on it earlier.
00:57:38It's just, I, there's a lot on them.
00:57:41There's an, and, and now the pressure grows with the Jude on situation and how that's
00:57:46going to be handled.
00:57:47And obviously, you know, the likelihood that bar more is certainly not around in the short
00:57:52term, but you know, maybe not around for the entire season, depending, you know, again,
00:57:55we don't have full details in order, nor do they, in terms of, you know, how that's going
00:57:59to play, but those are two massive pieces to the puzzle.
00:58:03And if the offense is going to be fighting to just be competent, the defense, if you're
00:58:08going to stay in games, it's going to have to be, you know, as good as they were last
00:58:12year or not.
00:58:13You know, that's, that's a lot to ask in back-to-back years, especially this year, when you look
00:58:17at the schedule and the, you know, at least the healthy quarterbacks, if the, if those
00:58:21guys are playing and some of the receivers are playing, it's going to be a massive challenge
00:58:25for them, a far greater challenge than they faced last year.
00:58:28Way off the radar backup linebackers, O'Shane Zemanis, William Bradley King.
00:58:32I think one of those dudes is making the roster.
00:58:33I don't know who it is.
00:58:35Both have flashed the last couple of days in pads, pass breakup, sack for Zemanis, repping
00:58:40with the first-team defense in spurts, but they're going to flash in the preseason.
00:58:45And this is my super bold, lame prediction, fan base is going to be in on one of them.
00:58:51We're all going to look up again, as I did before the show, how to pronounce Zemanis
00:58:54or go, Oh, Bradley King, where's he been?
00:58:57Second-year player.
00:58:58We'll see what he does.
00:58:59But I think one of those guys making the roster, partly because of special teams, which we
00:59:01did not talk about at all.
00:59:02All right.
00:59:03That was a deep cut.
00:59:05That's what we had here in the pod.
00:59:07I didn't say it was anything but lame, a little bit bold, little breaking news for you as
00:59:12we go out.
00:59:13And we're not going to talk about this.
00:59:14I just want to let everyone know.
00:59:15Bill Belichick is co-hosting and co-producing a new football show on the Underdog Media
00:59:20Network.
00:59:21Yes.
00:59:22Bill Belichick, famous for once dismissing fantasy football is, I don't know how he put
00:59:27it, but it was a regular Bill snort and dismissal, is now working for a fantasy company, Underdog
00:59:32Sports, to co-host and co-produce a show in addition to being on Pat McAfee, in addition
00:59:37to doing the Manning cast, in addition to being on Inside the NFL.
00:59:42I love this turn for Bill.
00:59:44It's something I could never have seen coming as much as we knew he would pursue media.
00:59:49He's somehow busier than you and me.
00:59:53And he's making a lot more money than us, too.
00:59:56I will bet you that Underdog fantasy thing pays pretty, pretty well.
01:00:00Makes you think, ah, you know what, I can get behind this fantasy football stuff after
01:00:04all.
01:00:05Especially when they have to explain to him, how does this air on YouTube?
01:00:08They just have videos.
01:00:09No, no, no, no, no, sorry, Bill.
01:00:12They're live now.
01:00:13People watch as much as they do cable.
01:00:16On the YouTube.
01:00:17Yeah.
01:00:18The tube face.
01:00:19Anyway.
01:00:20Mike Geraghty, thank you.
01:00:21Excellent as always.
01:00:22I will see you on that sweaty media hill Thursday for practice, day seven of Patriots training
01:00:25camp.
01:00:26All right, brother.