Could the Bruins end up trading Jeremy Swayman? | Pucks With Haggs
On this episode of Pucks with Haggs, host Joe Haggerty and guest Evan Marinofsky discuss whether an ugly turn in negotiations between the Bruins and Jeremy Swayman could end up with the young, unsigned B's goalie being traded away from Boston. And even if he isn't could the relationship between Swayman and the Bruins be tarnished past the point of securing a longterm deal? All that, and much more!
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00:00Welcome to another Pucks with Hags podcast powered by PrizePix, the exclusive daily fantasy
00:10partner of the CLNS Media Network.
00:13I believe this is the 125th episode of the Pucks with Hags podcast.
00:16I'm your host, Joe Hagerty.
00:17You can find my work at joehagerty.substack.com.
00:20Subscribe for a premium membership and you can get all of the NHL and Bruins writing
00:26sent straight directly to your inbox.
00:27I also write columns three times a week for the Boston Sports Journal among a talented
00:32crew of journalists.
00:33They're covering all of Boston sports.
00:34They get you covered in every single sport and team, so go check out bostonsportsjournal.com.
00:39Today on the show, we have the New England Hockey Journal's Evan Marinovsky, who you
00:43also know from Bruins Beat, from Nesson Television, all kinds of different places that Evan's
00:50popping up these days, including cover stories in the New England Hockey Journal for the
00:54new cover boys there in Hockey East, right, Evan?
00:57Yeah.
00:58Well, Diver had that one.
00:59Mark Diver wrote that story.
01:02Every year for the college magazine, which just came out, Diver always gets the cover.
01:06He gets that story.
01:07We always make sure he has that.
01:09He's like the Lester Bangs of Rolling Stone for the New England Hockey Journal.
01:14Yes.
01:15He's the professor emeritus for college stories, and so he's great.
01:20And yeah, exciting times for sure.
01:22Seasons are starting, so it's good.
01:24It's good time to be the editor.
01:25I like it.
01:26Very good.
01:27So yeah, check out New England Hockey Journal, both the television show on Nesson and the
01:30publication itself and the online version.
01:33Evan does great stuff, covers all the preps.
01:35He's a place you want to go for all kinds of hockey stuff, both college, pro, and preps.
01:40They've got you all covered hockey-wise.
01:41Well, thank you.
01:43You're welcome.
01:44Let's also thank our sponsors real quick while we have you.
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02:26All right, Evan.
02:28We are going to dive right into this.
02:29I think you know what we're going to talk about for most of this show.
02:33It is not going to be line combinations on the first day of training camp, even though
02:37they did put Lindholm and Zaka and Pasternak together right off the bat, and they did put
02:43Zdorov and McAvoy and Carlo and Hampus Lindholm and Mason Lowry and Andrew Peek were together.
02:54They actually put the guys together that are going to be playing, or that they'd like to
02:58see playing in partners with each other during the year.
03:00Some of the lines were the same.
03:02Lysel was with Coyle and Tyler Johnson was on that line and Marshan, I'm sure that Johnson's
03:08just filling that spot until Marshan comes back and they'll have that line kind of looking
03:11like maybe the way they want it to, too.
03:14But we're not talking about the first day line combos, all that stuff.
03:17We're not going to get into that because what we need to talk about is Don Sweeney, Louis
03:23Gross, Spitting Chicklets, Jeremy Swayman.
03:28Don Sweeney as angry and as irate and annoyed as I've ever seen him publicly in a press
03:35conference format the other day at the start of training camp talking about the inaccuracies
03:41of the Spitting Chicklets podcast, and it was directed towards Biz.
03:45Ryan Whitney was the one that said it.
03:47Let's put that out there first.
03:49Biz became the dartboard for all the stuff being thrown at Spitting Chicklets.
03:56But it was Whitney that basically intimated that the Bruins had offered four years, 6.2
04:01million to Swayman, which clearly they thought was insulting or something or not even close.
04:06I think it's way closer than they do.
04:08I think that's actually not far off what he would get in a four-year deal.
04:14Probably you'd have to end up giving them like four years, 28, something like that.
04:18But bottom line, it's not that far off from what would end up being a fair four-year contract,
04:23double the pay that he's making now, more than fair.
04:28But it was more that they said that Sweeney and the Bruins had not been returning Swayman's
04:34phone calls or Louis Gross, the agent's phone calls, for three weeks and hadn't been returning
04:40calls, was not communicative, there wasn't an open line of communication between the
04:44two sides.
04:46Sweeney was pissed at that, said it was inaccurate and that he didn't appreciate it.
04:52Obviously Sweeney knows the move there is to target Spitting Chicklets and to go after
04:56the media and to kill the messenger and to attack the messenger.
05:02But let's face it, that's coming from Louis Gross and Swayman and the agent and the player
05:05on that side.
05:07That's where Spitting Chicklets is getting their information from.
05:09Through one source, whether it's second-hand, first-hand, whatever, that information is
05:13coming from them.
05:14It's not coming from the Bruins.
05:16So basically they're being a mouthpiece for Swayman and his agent.
05:20And you know, Sweeney's not going to publicly blast Louis Gross, he's not going to publicly
05:24blast Swayman, but he can publicly blast the podcast that went out there and kind of chucked
05:30that out there.
05:32So this is what he said.
05:35Here we go.
05:38I think it's bullshit that somebody says, I wouldn't return a call for three weeks.
05:42This is Don Sweeney.
05:44Was it inaccurate?
05:45Was it written?
05:46Was it said?
05:47Was it written?
05:48I will tell you, I listened to the podcast.
05:49As I said, my son loves Bizz, Paul Bissonette, and thinks he's fabulous.
05:53He's a great entertainer.
05:54Okay.
05:55At the end of the day, they're inaccurate and that's okay because that's all part of
05:58the business nowadays.
05:59It's okay if you turn around and say it's your opinion or your belief and such, but
06:02don't report it as fact.
06:05That's all I'm asking.
06:07And you know, to Bizz and Spitting Chicklets' defense, the segment is called Rumor Boys.
06:13So they're kind of looking to know right away that it's rumors rather than fact.
06:17But still, there's a lot of people that listen to that podcast.
06:20You know, in this day and age, more than anything else, stuff that's said on TV, on podcasts,
06:27stuff that's said in any media venue is kind of taken as fact by a lot of people.
06:34Even stuff that's like a frigging Facebook post that looks sketchy as hell, a lot of
06:38times people will take as fact.
06:40There's a lot of gullible people out there that will take what they see and what they
06:43hear as 100% concrete fact rather than doing any thinking for themselves to try to discern
06:48if it's fact or not fact.
06:50And that's partially the fault of the audience and the people there.
06:53But you also, if you have a big audience, have to know there's some responsibility on
06:58your part to vet some of this stuff and to not toss stuff out there that's completely
07:02untrue.
07:03Otherwise, people are going to get pissed at you and they'll stop listening to you to
07:06a degree, too, if they think that what you're saying just isn't true.
07:10But bottom line, I just think I didn't think things were going particularly well between
07:17Swineman and the Bruins.
07:18I had no idea it was this bad and that the Bruins were this pissed about stuff going
07:23public.
07:24And I should have known that to a degree, I guess, because Don Sweeney does not like
07:28anything to go public.
07:29He wants things to stay between the agent and the player and the team.
07:34And none of that info get out.
07:36And just end up coming to an agreement at some point with nothing playing out in the
07:40court of public opinion or media and little whispers and back channel information not
07:45getting tossed out to curry favor or make the other side look bad.
07:49And that's what's starting to happen here.
07:50And once that starts happening and the sides start throwing bombs at each other and they
07:55start getting pissed and it starts getting acrimonious.
07:58And once the Bruins, frankly, think that you're being an a-hole in the way that you're negotiating,
08:04I think a lot of other stuff starts to come in play of it.
08:07I don't think it's just about like, when is Swineman going to sign?
08:10What's it going to be for?
08:12And like, when's he going to be in camp or when's he going to be signed for the season?
08:16I honestly think after hearing what Don Sweeney had to say and how angry he was and knowing
08:21how the Bruins feel about these things, I started to wonder if this is going to end
08:26up with Swineman getting traded and if this it's gotten bad enough now and they're pissed
08:30off enough now, especially if, let's say, he doesn't sign during camp, he doesn't sign
08:36going into the season.
08:38Let's say Corpozalo and Bussey become your goalies to start the year.
08:41And the Bruins have a good team.
08:42They have a playoff caliber team.
08:44I think they're Stanley Cup caliber with Swineman.
08:46But certainly even with adequate goaltending instead of elite goaltending, I think they're
08:49still a playoff team.
08:50It's still a pretty good team.
08:52Let's say they get off to a pretty good start with no Swineman not signed.
08:56I think very quickly you could see the Bruins decide, you know what?
09:01Let's get some value for this guy.
09:02We're not going to pay him like X amount of dollars.
09:04We already see that we're OK without him.
09:06He has no leverage anymore.
09:08And it could become a punitive thing.
09:10They're going to say, let's trade him to Utah.
09:13Let's trade him to Anaheim.
09:15Let's trade him to San Jose.
09:16You have no trade protection.
09:19You have no say in where we're going to send you.
09:22We're going to remind you that you're only an RFA, that you have no leverage.
09:25And if you try to F with us, we're just going to send you somewhere you don't want to go,
09:29show you how the other side actually lives in the NHL.
09:33Because I think Swineman's been spoiled being with the Bruins, and he doesn't realize there's
09:36a whole other reality out there where, like, yesterday we were in training camp, right?
09:41And we were in media availability, and the players were coming out from this one session
09:45in the dressing room.
09:46And you saw the wide-eyed wonder that Max Jones had at how many media people were actually
09:51covering the Bruins, because he was coming from Anaheim, where one friggin' team employee
09:55covers the team.
09:56There's like no media out there that covers the team.
09:58None.
10:00So, like, you know, there's a lot of other places that don't feel like the real NHL or
10:03feel much less like the real NHL among the 32 teams.
10:07And I feel like if it gets bad enough, the Bruins are going to just say, screw you, Sway.
10:11We're not paying you.
10:13We're going to trade you.
10:14You can go play somewhere else and, you know, have a whole different reality and, you know,
10:19realize how good you had it and that you pissed it all away by being, you know, by being unreasonable
10:24in negotiations.
10:26And like, all of this comes back to him being, you know, frankly, butthurt about the salary
10:33arbitration last year.
10:34Like, the most crying I've ever heard about an arbitration process, and I think the history
10:40of the Bruins is Jeremy Swayman.
10:41Like, he will not stop talking about it.
10:43And at a certain point, you kind of want to put him aside and be like, dude, get over
10:46it.
10:47Like, it's in the past.
10:48Like, you're screwing up your whole future now because you can't get over the arbitration
10:53because you're still pissed about it a year later.
10:56Like, that's a you problem.
10:57That's not a Bruins problem.
10:59And I, you know, I'm starting to see, like, I was hoping it was going to be resolved in
11:03a different way this summer because I like Jeremy Swayman.
11:05I think he's a great goalie.
11:06I think he's on the verge of, like, real greatness if he continues to keep his head on straight.
11:11But like, this whole process has, you know, I think is starting to damage his reputation
11:16with the fans.
11:17And I think fans are really going to start getting mad at him and his stance and him
11:23trying to get paid like an elite Vesna trophy level goalie when he's never done any of that
11:27stuff.
11:28He's never even been a starting goalie.
11:29Like, I think fans are going to start really getting aggravated with him the longer this
11:32plays out.
11:33And if it definitely, if it goes in the regular season, and he really starts missing games.
11:37But like, I took the whole Sweeney presser and like everything that's gone on the last
11:41few days as real danger signs that this is not going to end well for Jeremy Swayman in
11:46the Bruins.
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13:22Yeah, I, there's a lot there.
13:25I mean, you know, first of all, the part about people believing the stuff that isn't true.
13:30When I was sitting in that Sweeney press conference the other day, I had a group chat of friends.
13:33I don't know if you've seen this guy on Twitter.
13:35His name is like at real Rob Reinhart.
13:37I'll see him try to break news.
13:39I don't know if he's real or not.
13:40He might be AI.
13:42He has a little blue check and, you know, tweeted breaking the Bruins and Swayman have
13:46finally reached a contract agreement, eight years, 8.5 million per, and they're like talking
13:50about it in the group chat.
13:52They all.
13:53I was like, guys, this isn't true.
13:55Like this is not even true.
13:57So that annoys me.
13:58The people that believe anything they see, it really pisses me off.
14:01It's somebody they don't recognize.
14:02They've never heard of before.
14:03And they're like, I don't get it.
14:04It's on Twitter.
14:05And this guy says it's like, oh, it's like, no, you're like critical thinking.
14:09That's where the information is coming from.
14:11Like vet it a little bit.
14:13What's funny is in college, I took a class called news literacy and it was basically
14:17deciphering what's news and what isn't.
14:18And I always thought it was stupid.
14:19I was like, come on, he doesn't see it.
14:21And now you start to see it, especially on Twitter now with no blue check marks and stuff.
14:25You see it like the fake Simon Frazier account or whatever that tweets NFL news all the time.
14:30Like people believe it.
14:32But anyway, back to the Swayman stuff.
14:35I obviously the Bruins are pissed.
14:38He's clearly pissed.
14:39Yep.
14:40The trade stuff.
14:42I get where you're coming from.
14:44And you would probably get a lot.
14:45I would hope you'd get a lot.
14:46You'd better get a lot for Swayman.
14:47I mean, Jesus.
14:48Well, like, are you really Anaheim, for instance, Evan, you deal into Siberia and Anaheim and
14:56say, good luck, kid.
14:57Go out to California and Anaheim where like nobody cares and you're going to play into
15:00half empty crowds.
15:02They could get Gibson, who's perfectly good and would be fine.
15:06And they could get like Z Gris and they could get something out like you could get useful
15:10players if you wanted to.
15:11Those are spare parts.
15:15I think you could get useful players and draft picks for Swayman if you trade.
15:18So if you want to get like first or high end prospects that are truly high end, not like
15:24Z Gris.
15:25We've talked about this before.
15:26Oh, I'm sure they'd get prospects to fill the salary cap like like this is the thing.
15:30If they're trading him somewhere, they have to find something useful that's going to fill
15:34up the eight million, seven million they had earmarked for him.
15:38Like you're going to have to find somebody that you can add to this team with the space
15:43that you were going to use for Swayman.
15:44So it's going to be an NHL piece that's like a Z Gris type player, and it's going to be
15:49like a good, really good draft pick and a prospect like you're going to get good value
15:53for Swayman if you trade him.
15:54I have zero doubt about that.
15:56I just I agree.
15:58But I worry that you're trading him out of spite and you're setting yourself back.
16:02And I don't like that.
16:03I don't like that.
16:04And I get I get the sentiment.
16:06I do.
16:07But I don't.
16:08But it's not spite.
16:09Unless the deal is awesome.
16:10Evan, it's not spite.
16:11It's more like sending a message that if you act like an a-hole in negotiations, we're
16:14just going to trade you.
16:15Like organizations have to do that.
16:17I think when people really like turn it into a circus, like when it becomes a selfish circus
16:25event where like you're willing to like make everybody look bad to try to get the money
16:30that you want.
16:31And it's kind of unreasonable.
16:32When the negotiations turn a certain way, that's bad.
16:36I think as an organization, especially the Bruins, I think you're going to say, like,
16:40we just need to get rid of this guy because this is going to send a message to the rest
16:44of the team that this is how you can operate and do business with the Bruins and we're
16:48OK with it.
16:49And at a certain point, you have to say, we're not OK with that.
16:52And if you start doing that stuff like we're just going to ship you out, it's like there's
16:56a famous like and I'm not saying Swayman is, you know, I'm not saying Swayman's an a-hole
17:01because I think he believes what he is trying to get.
17:05I think he believes he's earned it.
17:06I think he believes what he believes, like the righteous path.
17:09You know what I mean?
17:10Like he thinks he's doing something like good for him, good for other goalies, like all
17:13that stuff, like whatever, you know, he believes he's in the right and I respect that.
17:18But from the Bruins end, they've always had kind of a no a-holes policy with that team.
17:24If you're if you're selfish, if you're a jerk, if you're not team first, like if you're any
17:29of that stuff, we'll just get rid of you.
17:31And I think this kind of when you when you turn negotiations into this and you like start
17:35really messing with stuff in this regard, I think you start treading down that path
17:41of getting into a territory where it's kind of the no a-holes thing and they end up trading
17:45you.
17:46You know, like I think I just think he's flirting with that danger.
17:48I don't know that it's purely out of like, I don't like what you did.
17:51So I'm trading you.
17:52It's more like sending a message to the entire team like we're not putting up with this,
17:56that kind of thing.
17:57Sure.
17:58But this team also has one cup since 1973.
18:00Can you really in that point be like we're trading away a guy who is a French potential
18:06franchise goalie?
18:07We developed him.
18:08We drafted him.
18:09We really like him on the ice.
18:11You're really going to deal that away to set a standard.
18:14What other RFAs are coming down the line that are going to have?
18:18Because again, this UFA is I consider UFA a little bit different.
18:21That's a totally different ballgame and it's harder to deal with those trading stuff.
18:27But to me, like I still and maybe I'm naive in thinking this, I still think a deal gets
18:34done in the next two weeks.
18:36And I know it doesn't sound like that because here's my thing, Hags.
18:38Here's the thing.
18:39Right.
18:40I think they're too far apart.
18:41They might be.
18:42They might be.
18:43But you have Darren Drager a couple of days ago saying that it's good vibes.
18:46So you know how you mentioned like where the Ryan Whitney stuff was coming from, obviously
18:50from Swyman side.
18:51Yep.
18:52You have Drager saying it's good vibes.
18:53Now, obviously, the reporting was false as Sweeney, you know, completely tore it down.
19:01Courtney Cox from EEI saying that it was a done deal.
19:03You have other people kind of insinuating that it was close.
19:06100% inaccurate.
19:07100% inaccurate.
19:08But I do wonder where those people got that from.
19:11It could have been from people that had nothing to do with the situation and were completely
19:15blowing it out their ass.
19:16Absolutely.
19:17But somewhere someone is starting the idea that they are somewhat close.
19:23And I wonder who's giving that out.
19:24That's my thing.
19:25And I know it's it's false, but like, I don't think those people grabbed it from nowhere.
19:30I don't think Courtney Cox woke up and said, is she ever broke?
19:34No, no, no.
19:35But OK.
19:36OK.
19:37But I am not going to I'm not going to say it's legit.
19:39It's coming from a legitimate place because somebody named Courtney Cox on WEI throw
19:45something out there that was completely false.
19:47Like, OK.
19:48But I understand.
19:49Anderson tweeted out, you know, Bruins.
19:50Yeah.
19:51I did shortly.
19:52My point is, Ty does it.
19:55But like, let's let's say what Ty does.
19:57Ty does it in an extremely vague way where it could be anything that, you know, and you
20:02could attach like, I was right about this because I threw this vague thing out there
20:05like when everybody was expecting something to happen.
20:08Like I understand Ty's connected.
20:09No question.
20:10You know, the people talk to Ty, but Ty does it in a way where he can't be held accountable
20:15if nothing happens.
20:16You know what I mean?
20:17Like if something doesn't go down.
20:18So it's like a half measure of what Ty throws out there, too.
20:21So I'm not I wouldn't really put much stock in that either.
20:25You know, like.
20:26Sure.
20:27But I somewhere and I agree, it's it's it's been wrong.
20:30I like completely.
20:31Yeah.
20:32But like that's where I wonder, like, where is that stuff emanating from?
20:36Where is that sentiment coming from?
20:40I just, you know, again, because like you're right, the Bruins are clearly pissed.
20:44The Bruins, you know, Sweeney is disappointed the deal hasn't been done yet.
20:48He's mad at their side, clearly.
20:50You and I sat here about a month ago, a couple of weeks ago after Martians quotes at that
20:55press conference.
20:56We wondered, you know, are those thinly veiled shots at Jeremy Swayman?
21:00All that stuff.
21:01I mean, it's clear what Swayman's doing is not the Bruins vibe.
21:04It has never been.
21:07But to trade him like that's again, and if you're getting a great return, you know, if
21:11you're getting a return, it's like, oh, yeah, you've got to do that, obviously.
21:14But if it's just if it's just like Larry David and Curb opening up a coffee shop next to
21:20Mocha Joe's for a spike store, that's where I'm like, I hate that because that's setting
21:24you back.
21:25That's setting you back.
21:26And you're not Larry David with a ton of money.
21:28So the Mocha Joe commercial or the commercial for the coffee shop going against Mocha Joe's
21:33is one of my one of my favorites.
21:36The star studded commercial.
21:39It's a great reference.
21:40But I like I said, I don't think it's necessarily out of spite because that's not how Don Sweeney
21:44works.
21:45He's not going to do it because he's angry.
21:46He's going to do it because it's what they have to do to keep the culture of the Bruins
21:51going.
21:52You know what I mean?
21:53I think there's a danger of losing the culture of the Boston Bruins to a degree and losing
21:58what's been, I think, a machine that's worked really, really well.
22:04If you give in, if you give him what he wants and you give in to the behavior and the tactics
22:09that they're using negotiations wise, I think it becomes problematic.
22:15And look, I'll go back to what Marcian said when you asked when we asked him about his
22:20contract at the golf tournament and he said, there's too much respect between my side and
22:25Don Sweeney's side for you to ever hear anything.
22:27You'll never hear anything about our negotiations.
22:31And I continue to or that was captain's practice, not the golf tournament.
22:34I continue to think that was a message to Swayman and that was a message to the way
22:38he was operating.
22:39And that was the captain saying, like, you're not doing the right thing here.
22:42You guys need to zip it and get the deal done and stop making things public.
22:48And I think it's not just the management.
22:50I think there's like some Bruins players that probably aren't happy about the way things
22:54have played out, too, just given the way they like to run the operation and the way the
22:57culture is there.
22:59So like, you know, I just think at a certain point, like I'm not saying it's going to happen
23:05tomorrow because I think it's going to play out.
23:07I think it's still be repaired at this point.
23:09I still think if they find a middle ground and they find in both sides become reasonable
23:15about it.
23:16I think they can find a deal, whether it's like I said, four years, 28 million, seven
23:20million a year.
23:21I think that's a very fair deal on sort of a semi bridge contract to get you to the bigger
23:26deal later on.
23:27Kind of, you know, Swayman will be betting on himself to a degree and then could really
23:31cash in as an unrestricted free agent in his late 20s if he performs the way he thinks
23:36he's going to and the way the Bruins think he's going to.
23:39So like that one, I think is reasonable.
23:41You could even if you went to eight years with him, you could I think you could reasonably
23:47see, you know, eight years like, you know, 56 million, something like that, like high
23:53sevens.
23:54Right.
23:55Maybe eight, maybe.
23:56But I don't think the Bruins are going to do that.
23:58I don't think they are going to go that far with a guy that's never played more than 44
24:03games.
24:04That's never been a number one goalie.
24:05That's never won a Vezina or even been a finalist.
24:07That's never even gotten really serious Vezina consideration.
24:10You don't get the nine point five, 10 million like you don't get the high eights unless
24:15you've played 60 plus games in a year, unless you've been a Vezina.
24:20We've talked about that.
24:21I mean, that stuff is nuts.
24:22Like the fact that it's just not, that's not worthy of that money.
24:26No, but that's why like there it's a completely unreasonable stance that they're taking, that
24:32they should be paid that way when they've done nothing to like be in that neighborhood.
24:38And I think people like after just like throwing it out there, like it's, Oh, it's not our
24:42money.
24:43Just give him eight years.
24:4464.
24:45I think Bruins fans are waking up now and looking at it and being like, wait a minute.
24:48Like has he done anything to earn that kind of money?
24:50Like has he like done a check?
24:52Any of the boxes that those other goalies have checked to get paid like that?
24:56Like I see some people tweeting me and saying like he has to get a huge deal now because
25:00if Sturkin signs a massive deal and he's going to look like a fool if he settles for like
25:06less money.
25:07Are you trying to compare Swayman to Igor Shusterkin right now?
25:10Is that what we're doing?
25:11Like, cause he's not there.
25:12Like he's not in that class yet.
25:14Like you know, he's not, or Bobrovsky, they were using him and like, he's got a contract
25:19coming up too.
25:20And like, you know, he's going to get, Bobrovsky's won multiple Vesnas and a Stanley cup.
25:24He is nowhere.
25:25Bobrovsky's like a hall of famer at this point.
25:27Yeah.
25:28When he signed that deal, he, when he signed that deal, I think he had a Vesna or two at
25:32that point.
25:33He had two before he even signed that contract.
25:36That's what I'm saying.
25:37Like the guys that have all got the huge money contracts have the body of work to demand
25:41that kind of money.
25:43Jeremy Swayman is not even close.
25:45And like on its face, if he were just demanding the money and he wasn't coming off of it,
25:50that's one thing.
25:51But now that like stuff is starting to come out and getting leaked, like that's a different
25:58level.
25:59Like once you start, I'm telling you, once you start going down that road, I think you're
26:02going down a path that like, like what I was saying before.
26:05I don't think he's going to get traded tomorrow.
26:07I don't think he's get traded in during preseason.
26:10I think they're going to continue to try and negotiate and get him into camp and like repair
26:14the, any damage that's been done and rebuild the bridge.
26:18But like I said, I think if this plays out and like that, this is realistic, that's going
26:23to play out into the regular season now because Don Sweeney started throwing, started throwing
26:27December 1st out multiple times during that press conference, which tells you that they
26:31think seriously that he's going to hold out into the regular season and that maybe Swain
26:36is not even going to sign until like the early December, late November.
26:41So he gets a year of service time and because he has to sign then or he can't play this
26:44year.
26:45So they believe it's going to be pretty serious.
26:47Like he's going to hold out into the season.
26:50If it turns into, he holds out into the season, he misses a ton of time.
26:54He signs right before December 1st, like a one year contract, they're going to trade
26:58him.
26:59They're not going to keep him around.
27:00I am telling you right now, they're going to trade him somewhere.
27:03He does not want to go.
27:04It's going to be a message type deal.
27:07That's going to set a tone to everybody else.
27:09Like do not negotiate like this and tell your agent not to negotiate like this or this is
27:14what's going to happen.
27:16And I, they love Swayman.
27:17They love his competitiveness.
27:19They love his mindset.
27:20They love that he's driven to be great.
27:21They love the way that he's performed.
27:23I've been a big fan of Swayman.
27:25You know, I've been a, one of his biggest proponents and biggest fans all along because I really
27:29believe in the kid and I think he's a star goaltender.
27:33And I've thought that way.
27:34Like I was way before anybody else, I wanted him starting over Omar in the playoffs.
27:38Like I was saying at the beginning of last year, even before he played as well as he
27:41did.
27:42So like, I believe in the kid, but like, I, I really think it doesn't matter that he was
27:47drafted and developed and that they believe in him and like all that other stuff.
27:51If it gets to a certain point where he's really hurting the team and he's really like kind
27:57of being selfish about the whole thing and being unrealistic with what he wants for a
28:00salary, they're going to frigging trade.
28:02I think I'm telling you right now, I think if it goes into the regular season and it
28:05like becomes a protracted thing, especially if they do okay without them and they're still
28:10winning games in a playoff spot, they're going to deal.
28:13I think they're going to deal them just to send a message to everybody else.
28:15Like this is not how you act.
28:16This is not how the Bruins do business.
28:18Well, I mean, if they go up to the December 1st deadline, he signs a one year deal.
28:23That's soured.
28:24I mean, that relationship is toast.
28:25That's, I mean, that is, that is cut in half.
28:28That's where I do.
28:29You're not going to, if it gets to that point, Evan, I don't think you're going to see like
28:32a three, four year.
28:33I don't know.
28:34No, no, no, no, no.
28:35I agree.
28:36Cause if you're not, if you are not finding common ground on November 1st or November
28:4115th, like you are never finding common ground on that.
28:44Correct.
28:45Um, I, to me, by the way, Utah, beautiful skiing, Anaheim, beautiful weather.
28:50I mean, I know, I know what you mean.
28:52Like you would probably in swimming would probably eat up Utah.
28:55I'd love Utah.
28:56You kidding me?
28:57It'd be like, please trade me there.
28:58Um, I, you know, the tough part is like, you know, you, you mentioned like if they go into
29:03the season without a deal and it seems like that's realistic.
29:06I still, I'm not quite there yet on, on thinking that's the favorite, but I agree with you
29:11in that.
29:12I think it, it absolutely could happen now.
29:13Whereas I think before Sweeney spoke, I would have said no, it's getting done soon.
29:17It'll be fine.
29:18Like it always is.
29:19The problem is that like, if they go into this season, let's say they're a month in
29:24and the bussy, uh, Corpus Allo tandem is not working.
29:27Yep.
29:28Like then Swayman gets the leverage, a little bit of leverage back.
29:31And it's like, are you, can you deal him in that sense?
29:34Probably not in that case, you probably can't.
29:36So, and I agree the team in front of them is good.
29:38I think it's absolutely realistic that that tandem of bussy and Corpus Allo could actually
29:42be okay.
29:43You know, like, you know, are you winning a cup with them?
29:47Probably not, but like, I do think they could be okay, but in the event that they're not
29:52okay, this is when you have a tough time trading him because it's like, damn it.
29:57We need them.
29:58But on the other end of it, like I said this to Conor yesterday on poke the bear, like
30:01if, if goals are going in left and right and pucks are going in, that should not be going
30:06in.
30:07You're going to have guys like McAvoy and the defense.
30:10You're going to have, you know, Marchand and the forwards be like, what the hell dude?
30:13Like we're losing to the Red Wings five to four because you know, Corpus Allo or bussy
30:18can't stop a beach ball, by the way, this has not happened yet.
30:20Obviously they could be great.
30:22But in the event that it's not like you have the team souring on him, but you can't trade
30:26them.
30:27Whereas if they're good and they're fine, it's like, Oh, our systems are good.
30:31You know, we got Jay leach fixing the defense, blah, blah, blah.
30:35We can deal sway.
30:36And you know, we have the leverage now, then that's different.
30:39So I, like, I still think this gets wrapped up in the next two to three weeks, but even
30:44then, even then hags, he will have missed two or three weeks of training camp.
30:50So he's starting the season behind the eight ball.
30:52And I know that he trained all summer, but reps and training camp and practice are still
30:56reps and training camp and practice.
30:58We'll be back to show in a minute, but let's thank our sponsors right here.
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31:21spot in the playoffs.
31:23And what did they do?
31:24They went out and beat the Bengals.
31:26They won the game.
31:27And I honestly remember this game very vividly because I was 11 years old at the time.
31:33And after the game was over, all the fans stormed the field, ran down, ripped off the
31:38goalposts and carried it right out of the stadium.
31:41I wanted to go down and do it and join the crowd.
31:43My dad said, absolutely not.
31:45There's no frigging way you're going down there.
31:47And that was my first memory of going and seeing an NFL football game live.
31:51It was an awesome game.
31:52It was back in the Tony Collins, Steve Grogan, Tony Eason era, Stanley Morgan, all those
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33:15Game time.
33:16I'll tell you what, Evan, like I think it's like, that'll be part of it, but I think in
33:22general he's going to struggle this year because Allmark isn't there.
33:27Because there isn't somebody, but that's what I mean.
33:30Like I think this, like, even if he went into camp on time, I think this season is going
33:35to be tough for Jeremy Swayman because it's all on him now.
33:39And if he goes into a little like tailspin for a couple of games, you don't have Allmark
33:43to go to just throw in there to like stop the bleeding or stop the losing streak and
33:47take the pressure off.
33:49Like this is going to be a much different mental and physical challenge for Swayman.
33:54And I think there's going to be growing pains associated with it and performance pains associated
33:58with it too, where I don't think he's going to have as good a year as he did last year
34:02because it's a much different situation.
34:05And I think that is part of the consideration too.
34:08Was he ever faced adversity at the NHL level?
34:11Because no, because Allmark has always been there.
34:14I don't think I'm forgetting any stretch.
34:15He's always had a business trophy partner.
34:18Like even when he was there at the end of the year when Tuco was there, like he's always
34:20had a super well-established goalie next to him when he's been on the Bruins roster, you
34:27know, that they could go to and it was kind of like a security blanket.
34:30So it's going to be a much different thing for him to be the guy and have a guy like
34:37Corpus Aulo, who's obviously experienced as his backup.
34:40That's probably why he wants the big money though.
34:43I think that is a big part of it where it's like, well, he has the leverage, like he thinks
34:47he has the leverage right now and he kind of does to a degree.
34:49And he certainly did up until training camp, like until the start of training camp, he
34:54had all the leverage.
34:55I think he could have really fought to get the most that he could get.
34:59But I think now as training camp goes on, they brought in another goal veteran goalie
35:04on a trial thing to fill his spot in camp.
35:07Like as things start to go now, you're going to see the Bruins shift perspective and be
35:11like, we're just dealing with the guys that we have here and Swayman can go like do whatever
35:15he's doing and we're moving on without him, like, and he's being left behind here.
35:20And I think that's, you're going to start to see that approach.
35:23And you know, I think the leverage starts to go away from him.
35:27And the big one though, will be like what happens once the regular season opens?
35:33Like you're right.
35:35If corporate silo and Bussie struggle, if they're the reason Bruins are losing games
35:39and they look like a weak link, yeah, there's going to be some leverage there for Swayman
35:43to, you know, for the Bruins to cave a bit and to give Swayman a little more of what
35:47he wants.
35:49But is it going to get to a point where they're going to sign him to like an eight year, 9.5
35:53per year deal like McAvoy?
35:55No, I don't think that's ever going to happen.
35:58I think they would trade him before eight years, 9.5.
36:02What if they end up signing that deal and it's like, what are you doing?
36:05McAvoy deal that supposedly he wants, you know, which still doesn't make sense to me.
36:09Like how is a goalie?
36:10Do you ask for a defenseman deal?
36:12I don't know how that, how, what, who does business like that?
36:15I don't know.
36:17But I think they'll never give him that kind of money.
36:21And I don't think any team would give him that kind of money, frankly, based on his
36:25track record and what he's done in his resume to this point.
36:28Like he's, he's in line.
36:31The closest thing to a comparable, and I've said this a bunch of times, was Saros, right
36:36when he was at the end of his partnership with Pekka Rinne.
36:40And he at that time signed a three year, $15 million deal, $5 million per year before he
36:46signed his huge deal now.
36:48And after he signed that five year, $15 million deal, he had a couple of seasons where he
36:52started 60 plus games, played really well, proved he was the number one guy because Rinne
36:56was retired and gone, and established himself.
36:59And that's how he got the seven year, 7.75, like whatever he has now.
37:04And that's kind of like the, where Swayman is right now.
37:07He's at that deal before the big deal, you know?
37:10And I, but I think the Bruins could, the Bruins could cave to a degree.
37:15And I think giving them $7 million a year on a three or a four year deal is caving to
37:18a degree.
37:19I think that's giving them more money than they probably should.
37:21More money probably would, you know, is, is supposed to get market-wise based on what
37:27other goalies have gotten.
37:28But I think they would do that in order to keep like things going, to keep a good relationship
37:34going on the ice between Swayman and the Bruins.
37:38But I think that's not even like, the fact that Spittin' Chicklets was talking about
37:43the four year, $6.2 million offer, which Don Sweeney never said that wasn't true, never
37:48countered that as inaccurate or anything.
37:50So I got to assume that that's actually what the Bruins were offering was four years, $6.2
37:55million a year.
37:56True.
37:57He did not refute that.
37:58Yeah.
37:59No, they never contradicted that.
38:01So like, but, but the Spittin' Chicklets acted like that was a complete insult to Jeremy
38:05Swayman, low ball, like how could they even offer something like that?
38:08And I don't think that is low ball at all.
38:10I think that is pretty reasonable, maybe a little short of what you're going to have
38:14to end up paying him to get him signed.
38:17But certainly a decent starting point anyway, to getting a deal done for like a semi-bridge
38:23contract, like a three or four year deal to get you to the big deal the next time around.
38:29But I think they, it seems like just the way the Spittin' Chicklets treated it, the way
38:34they, it must've been presented to them as information from whoever gave it to them,
38:37whether it was Swayman, Swayman's agent, like somebody else in their, their camp, clearly
38:42they thought it was insulting or they thought it was well below what it should be too.
38:46And not even worth like discussing.
38:47Well, they also had that end of it.
38:50They had that, the money and then they had the, they didn't talk for three weeks.
38:53Like that was, I think that was the cat, the big part to that deal.
38:56Cause I agree.
38:57I don't think like, I think ultimately like four years, seven is probably what you're
39:03going to have to be at.
39:05And you are overpaying a little for him now, I completely agree, but you're in the hopes
39:09that in three years, that 7 million is either worth it or cheaper.
39:14I would also add, and I know, you know, if they did deal him to Utah or an Anaheim or
39:19one of these lower tier teams, San Jose, that would, or, or who San Jose, San Jose, oh my
39:26God.
39:27Um, it'd be hockeys.
39:29That's hockey East West now.
39:31Um, but you know, if they were to deal him to one of those teams, uh, his numbers would
39:37take a huge hit, huge hit, and then his value would be lower.
39:42So like, there is that.
39:43I agree with you.
39:44I think the Bruins, if they, if, if shit gets real, as it seems to be doing and we get through
39:49the regular season, you do have to threaten the guy with being traded and say, look, you
39:55want to go to San Jose.
39:56You want to play behind AHL defenseman and 19 year old number one centers.
40:00Like you be my guest, you have fun with that, you know, 2.94 goals against average and like,
40:06you know, a nine Oh eight safe percentage facing the most amount of shots in the NHL
40:10You can see how the other half lives that you haven't known because you've always been
40:15on really good Bruins teams and been in a really good organization that values goalies.
40:19And like Evan, those bottom feeder teams that you wouldn't want to get traded to.
40:24Those are the ones that need to goalie the worst, the most, you know, those are the ones
40:28that would be vying most like most, uh, vociferously for a goalie.
40:34They're the ones that would be for didn't the sharks just get the predators like top
40:37goalie prospect.
40:38Didn't you go there?
40:39Yeah.
40:40They don't have an established guy.
40:41No, they don't.
40:42And then, you know, you have Anaheim with John Gibson who, again, on a pretty big deal
40:47and he's sort of underperformed the last couple of years.
40:49And then you've got Utah.
40:50I don't know who the Utah goalie Utah definitely needs a goalie.
40:54Yeah.
40:55So, uh, but yeah, I mean, you're right in terms of those teams, like, Hey, you want
40:59to get ready to learn Buffalo sabers, buddy, uh, Columbus is another one that also needs
41:05a goalie as well.
41:06So I would hope if we're going to deal with this, if we're going to talk trades, I would
41:10hope you would at least get that team's first round pick for this season.
41:15I would hope like you better get that.
41:17You better get a legit NHL piece too.
41:19You mentioned like filling up that salary cash base.
41:21Cause again, I don't want to trade Jeremy Swain at least as of right now, again, if
41:24things get really sour in the next month, talk to me then, but I don't want to trade
41:27Jeremy Swain.
41:28I think he's too valuable to this team, but if you are going to trade them, you better
41:32freaking get value and you better be getting a top first round pick in next year's draft.
41:37Uh, and you know, you think about a team like Columbus or Utah or Anaheim, you're in the
41:42running for a James Higgins.
41:44You better be in the running for a guy like that.
41:46Like, and, and, and if in five years, the Bruins have a number one center, but they
41:50don't have the number one goalie.
41:51You can live with that because you get a guy like, you know, and again, we're dealing in
41:54complete hypotheticals and it would be awesome if the Bruins get a James Higgins, that would
41:59be terrific.
42:00It'd be great for you.
42:01It'd be terrific for me.
42:03You kidding me?
42:04Uh, that would be like chef's kiss.
42:07Um, but, uh, but, uh, but I, you know, I do think you should be getting the highest of
42:12the high value.
42:13And we talked about this with Omar, you know, when we debated back and forth, you know,
42:16now the corpus, the corpus of that trade is like the crown jewel.
42:20You've got a veteran goalie that actually ended up working out hags.
42:23You fell into that.
42:24That wasn't your point at the time, but you did end up falling into that.
42:28But I do, you, you, if you're going to trade Swain and you've got to get the highest possible
42:33value, you have to, it can't just be a dump.
42:35And I don't think they're going to, it has to be legit assets that you're getting in
42:39return for a goalie like that.
42:41And I think you would, because I think everybody recognizes the talent there.
42:45Um, it's just a matter of like, and I'm sure there would have to be some certainty that
42:50he was going to sign some kind of a deal in order to give up like certain, you know, given
42:54the way negotiations have gone, that would be part of it too, uh, that he would have
42:58to be reasonable as far as what he was looking for in a contract.
43:01So that, I think that part of the whole part is going to be interesting.
43:04Um, but like, that's a bridge they could cross.
43:07Like you'd have to sign them.
43:09It would probably end up being a sign and trade where you would have to sign them to
43:12the one year deal just to get them in and then trade them somewhere.
43:16And then they could like sort of deal with the, you know, the next phase of, of trying
43:19to negotiate with him.
43:21One other thing, just real quick on the trading stuff, I just picked this up.
43:24So ask her off was the guy who got dealt from Nashville.
43:27This was again in August.
43:28He was traded for, um, forward prospect, David Edstrom, goalie, prospect, Magnus Corona,
43:33who used to be with Denver, very good goalie.
43:35Uh, and a conditional first round pick in the 25 NHL draft.
43:38It was acquired by San Jose from the night.
43:40So now it's with predators.
43:41So they, they've basically got a forward prospect, a goalie prospect, and a first, now that's
43:45for a goalie prospect.
43:47That's for a guy who doesn't have, he doesn't even have the Swainman experience level.
43:52So you'd have to imagine Swainman's deal would be, you know, double that trade or, you know,
43:57tenfold.
43:58So it would be much higher.
43:59Yes.
44:00It, it goes without saying you'd have to get legit, like top drawer blue chip assets.
44:05Uh, if you were going to trade swimmers, it wouldn't be out of spite in terms of we'll
44:08take pennies on the dollar for this guy to get them out of here.
44:11No, you'd get good value in return, but I feel like, I honestly feel like we have to
44:19have this conversation now, because I think that door has been open now where it wasn't
44:22open before, based on the way negotiations have turned.
44:26Like I think I'll talk about any guy getting traded.
44:28Hey, we were in the podcast, but Evan, it was purposeful and eye-opening when Don Sweeney
44:34mentioned December 1st, twice during that press conference and not opening night tells
44:41you there was real trouble going on here and there were real issues and they are preparing
44:45to not have him for the first few months of the season, which tells you that things have
44:48gone seriously sideways and anything could happen at this point.
44:52And I think trades are definitely a realistic end game based on how ugly things have gotten
44:57between the two sides, how acrimonious things have gotten between the two sides.
45:01All right, Evan, thank you very much for joining us.
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45:40What time is it?
45:41Game time.
45:42It's game time.
45:43It's game time.
45:44It's game time.
45:45So we're really not going to talk max Jones, third liner, fourth liner.
45:48We're not going to talk about that.
45:49We're not going to talk about, uh, Marcus Stellick, fourth line center.
45:52We're not going to talk about max Jones.
45:54We're not going to talk about, uh, Jim Montgomery's contract, which was also addressed.
45:59We'll have to do that next time.
46:00A lot of interesting stuff going on there, uh, where it sounds like he may be a lame
46:05duck coach going into the season base.
46:06And I love, I love Evan that you stuck your nose in there and you asked that question
46:11during the presser.
46:12Evan.
46:13I was curious.
46:14I was curious.
46:15I was, uh, there's my big J journalist hat on.
46:18I was curious.
46:19And Sweeney did give the answer of like, we don't talk about that stuff.
46:22We're not like, we're not going to get into that.
46:24So maybe another, you know, another at Jeremy Swayman, that might've been another, you know,
46:27the whole team's just, you know, uppercuts and all that, but you have Mike Felger saying
46:31he wants to punch him in the throat.
46:33Did you hear that?
46:35That's right.
46:36But Evan was doing big J stuff at the press conference this week at the beginning of training
46:39camp.
46:40So full credit to Evan Marinovsky.
46:41Thank you, Evan, for joining us today, my friend.
46:43Of course.
46:45Everybody else out there.
46:46Thanks for listening.
46:47We'll see you at the rink.